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Bryan Fuller Leaves "Star Trek: Discovery" as Showrunner by M'Pella - Wed, 26 Oct 2016 23:02:42 EST ID:lBRkOczw No.56838 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1477537362706.jpg -(8451B / 8.25KB, 316x160) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 8451
>Sources said there had been some strain between “Star Trek” producer CBS Television Studios and Fuller over the progress of production on the show

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/bryan-fuller-showrunner-star-trek-discovery-cbs-1201901398/
>>
Liquidator Brunt - Thu, 27 Oct 2016 02:08:21 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.56840 Ignore Report Quick Reply
When you thought you couldn't be any more disappointed in how this series is turning out...
>>
Elim Garak - Thu, 27 Oct 2016 09:53:10 EST ID:sS5y1lLA No.56846 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>trusting CBS to get anything right

They make horrible fucking content.

If we lived in a good timeline, Netflix would be making STD.
>>
Stonn - Thu, 27 Oct 2016 11:40:45 EST ID:sQLio0UG No.56848 Ignore Report Quick Reply
just make it as watchable as voyager, nix the reboot style
>>
Dr. Antaak - Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:51:01 EST ID:KN9lUNxQ No.56849 Ignore Report Quick Reply
they couldn't even hold it together for ten episodes or whatever limey-grade shit counts for a season nowadays?
>>
Jean-Luc Picard - Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:14:20 EST ID:RPi8ajTO No.56851 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56849
Father Ted was 24 episodes in 3 seasons and every single one is fucking gold.

ENT Season 3 was 24 episodes and should have been 8.

Then again TNG had several seasons of 24 which were all pretty damn good.
>>
Mila - Fri, 28 Oct 2016 05:19:15 EST ID:5aCbAqEw No.56857 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56848
>when nu-trek is so bad you beg for voyager quality.
>>
Commander Morag - Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:47:23 EST ID:qbvuHKHy No.56860 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>56857
>>
Guinan - Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:51:28 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.56864 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56860
ALL OF MY THIS
>>
Rom - Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:31:20 EST ID:siczhJsP No.56865 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1477693880789.jpg -(70061B / 68.42KB, 500x382) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Ensign Miral Paris - Sat, 29 Oct 2016 00:08:25 EST ID:J3LWDK5j No.56867 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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This kills the hype
>>
Darien Wallace - Wed, 30 Nov 2016 01:31:12 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57177 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57176
Why is one of the leads the captain of a totally different ship?
And why the fuck is astromycology a senior officer position?
Plz don't let the whole show be about following around insignificant no-bodies in the underbelly of ships. If there is an episode about some really kooky fungus Lt. Stamets decided to grow one time, I'll lose my shit.
>>
Jaro Essa - Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:46:22 EST ID:S1IWIS7q No.57178 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57176
>Doug Jones as Lt. Saru, an alien Starfleet science officer of a new species yet to be named.
I am intrigued at Doug Jones as Commander Monkey
>>
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:01:52 EST ID:eFWMaQI8 No.57179 Ignore Report Quick Reply
That really sucks. I loved what he did with Hannibal but I hope whomever replaces him is a good fit. I think they should get John Wirth as a showrunner especially after he took over for Hell on Wheels in season 3 and turned the show around.

>>57176
That's cool Michelle Yeoh is on it and liked Doug Jones from his roles in Hellboy and on Falling Skies (not the best sci-fi show I know).
>>
Darlene Kursky - Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:47:20 EST ID:lBRkOczw No.57181 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57177
Good choices so far, keep in mind that Cpt. Yeoh is not in command of Discovery but rather a secondary vessel named after a Chinese spacecraft. Doug Jones makes me happy because hes' got starpower on broadway and theater actors have been a big boon for the series.


>>57177
Redditors are speculating the two ships are somehow stuck together (metaphorically) and will have to work together consistently throughout the season to defeat a common enemy Very different dynamic which is promising as it gives the show writers a lot more to work with.
>>
Herbert Rossoff - Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:20:04 EST ID:xFnlgs1F No.57183 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57178
Doug Jones is cool casting, especially if they're making him an alien.

He's already played one of my favorite aliens, the Silver Surfer.
>>
General K'Trelan - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 06:34:21 EST ID:5aCbAqEw No.57184 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57176
>astromycologist

What the fuck how did they come up with that shit?
A fast googling tells me it's a gay fungus expert.
>>
Legate Porania - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:12:53 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57185 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57184
The Data Character is going to be a sentient moss humanoid.
>>
Joret Dal - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 09:44:39 EST ID:sS5y1lLA No.57186 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57185
>>57184

TOS is full to the brim of astrobotanists, astrosociologists, astroarchaeologists, etc.

Mycology is pretty amazing (wife teaches high school agriculture/biology).

Mushroom spores can travel through space, so it fits that Star Fleet would have a focus on shrooms.
>>
Subaltern Lorot - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 11:15:14 EST ID:+8iuDiiZ No.57187 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57176

> starship Shenzhou

What's this?

I hope the show is about a "Master And Commander"-style chase around the galaxy. Totally speculating, but that would be cool.
>>
Jimmy - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 11:41:40 EST ID:Mw2ViAbq No.57188 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57187

>Master and Commander

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Duellists
>>
Stonn - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 16:10:57 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57189 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57186
Yeah but none of them were senior officers/starring cast members...everyone one of those people had a primary function, Chief Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Communications Officer...the fact that a leading role is a minor specialist virtually guarantees that a large part of the show will be "Lower Decks" style crawling through minor crew member's days.
>>
Douglas Pabst - Thu, 01 Dec 2016 22:08:52 EST ID:+8iuDiiZ No.57190 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57188

I don't understand.
>>
Guinan - Fri, 02 Dec 2016 00:55:37 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57191 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57178
>>57183

Pls pls pls be Nausicaan

but only if we get TNG style voice modulation, not that faggy ENT shit where they just sound like HUE MAHNS

>>57185
Full power to the kek drive

>>57187
This could be so sweet if it was some kind of Romulan stealth ship trying to stir up old shit or something like that.. I don't even care anymore if they break the canon of "not knowing what Romulans look like" from the OG Romulan TOS episode.. they could even explain it away somehow.

I just hope it's good
>>
Legate Kell - Fri, 02 Dec 2016 09:20:52 EST ID:sS5y1lLA No.57192 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57190

The duellists is another great film about two members of a military organization who can't stop trying to kill each other.
>>
Koss - Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:43:14 EST ID:1MnlPaJQ No.57194 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57176
"we will see Michelle Yeoh ("Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon") in the role of a starship captain. She is set to play Captain Georgiou of the starship Shenzhou."

At first I thought this was a joke satirizing Hollywood's recent practice of pandering to the Chinese, but it's actually real. I hope it's tastefully done.
>>
Benny Russell - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 00:09:44 EST ID:xFnlgs1F No.57198 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57194
They're not pandering to the Chinese. They're pandering to the Chinese MARKET.

Not to mention that China will soon start ramping up its space exploration. TOS came out a few years before the US landed a man on the moon. DIS coming out a few years before China lands on Mars?
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 00:12:46 EST ID:7YaRXzjT No.57199 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57198

Plus, it's more realistic. If population continues as-is, everyone in the future will be chinese.
>>
Elizabeth Cutler - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 00:16:46 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57200 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57199
Not really, one child has really stunted Chinese population (its incredibly male heavy now) If anyone will, it's India.
>>
Arik Soong - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 00:25:21 EST ID:17x1fDf5 No.57202 Ignore Report Quick Reply
He also recently said that even though he's staying on as an exec producer he'll have pretty much zero creative input.

I'm still bummed about this. I remember reading an interview with Fuller years ago where he talked about wanting to make a new Trek series that brought the TOS era color back, because he hated how bland and grey the ships got over the years. He had experience writing for Voyager and DS9. Legit lifelong fan and established creative genius with Pushing Daisies and Hannibal. He was the perfect person for the job, if he was taking too long CBS really should have just delayed the show, it's not like we haven't been waiting over a decade for a new Trek show anyway.
>>
Guinan - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 01:22:27 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57206 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57202
They DID delay the show, even before Fuller leaving was known, it's not coming out til like may or something now
>>
Elizabeth Cutler - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 02:40:06 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57207 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57202
>that brought the TOS era color back


TOS's art direction was god fucking awful. TNG and post looked like an actual fucking government organization. Not to say he'd been bad just for that, but there's a reason that shit was left in the 60s.
>>
Administrator V'Las - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 14:25:42 EST ID:R6LbivEJ No.57209 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57207

I prefer it to beige-trek. TNG is my favorite plot-wise, but wow, it looks like a Packard Bell Computer in a run down dentist office now. It hasn't aged well.

DS9 is a bit better. I like the shadowy lighting. Also there's this light layer of federation tech built on top of Cardassian stuff.
>>
Guinan - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 16:22:34 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57210 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57209

I mean no offense, but do you really think the style of TNG is more aged than TOS?

TNG-era feels pretty modern when I look at it through the eyes of today, personally.. even if there are a lot of beiges and greys it looks realistic, well lit, and everybody's doing their shit on tablets and whatnot

I just hope the reason they picked this shit-tier era to set the show in wasn't for fuller alone.. they really should have either done post-Nemesis or inbetween Undiscovered Country and TNG. I mean honestly no one in Trek fandom wants ANOTHER prequel after sitting through ENT and NuTrak. At least if we're gonna have one set it in an interesting time period where we can see random character cameos of young pre-Admiral Nakamura and young Picard and shit like that..

But let's be real, even that would be kinda shitty... we need to see TNG/DS9/VOY's future.. no one cares about the future's past
>>
Administrator V'Las - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 17:49:50 EST ID:R6LbivEJ No.57215 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57210

Yes. I absolutely do. The set quality of TOS is obviously not as good, but the style choices they were making seem more modern.

TNG... with its sets bathed in neutral colors and flat lighting absolutely screams 90's at me. It's one of the things that jumped out at me the most when I rewatched it after taking a break. It especially jumped out at me when they had the episode when Yar comes back, and they throw in a little colored light on the bridge. It was so refreshing to see an episode where the bridge wasn't just beige and flat.

For one, the 60s-70s aesthetic has come back into style a bit. But also, current designs that are trying to communicate modern seem to like glass, hyperclean whites, and bold patches of color. At least TOS has the bold colors.

This is all obviously subjective. But yeah, just so you know, to my eyes it's aged very poorly.
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 19:19:57 EST ID:v7i5CQa0 No.57216 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57215
You mean the blue splash from the viewscreen doesn't tickle your aesthetic fancy?
>>
Kimara Cretak - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 23:30:18 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57218 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57209
I'll give you about the lighting and colors. The sets though. I still think TNG's sets and mockups hold up. Nothing in TOS holds up IMO. Hell thats why there's a Remastered TOS.
>>
Tavek - Sat, 03 Dec 2016 23:41:23 EST ID:xFnlgs1F No.57219 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57215
I think they new series SHOULD have a distinct style. Part of why I think ST09 was ok is because they changed up the style instead of trying to paint by the 1987 numbers.

They're literally doing exactly what I wanted them to do with a new series and have posted about on here for years: A premium cable style show with a big cast o characters. And a streaming video service, though CBS is not the one I would have chosen first.
>>
Ensign Miral Paris - Sun, 04 Dec 2016 00:03:52 EST ID:L3E9v1HE No.57220 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57210
>we need to see TNG/DS9/VOY's future.. no one cares about the future's past
This. I really just want to see where the universe grows and progresses. Like there was this awesome fucking feeling that trek as a universe was expanding when I went through everything (up till enterprise). Like you start at the original series, and it has its weird little charm, its quirky 60s style. But with that? It has these strong overiding scifi themes.

Then you get to orginal cast movies. The stakes have raised things feel bigger, the federation also looks sleeker. And that moves nicely into the next generation. The next generation you've got this feeling that their going out and doing things above and beyond what was done before what could have been done before. Like there are so many cool tech tricks that the crew pulls off, the eterprisize itself feels more badass. The federation feels like a more regimented tougher military.

And then? They kept this going with deep space 9. The federation isn't just a hardened military, its one that will fight on its own terms. All that asymmetrical warfare. Also the fact that the wormhole opens up to this whole other area of space. Why is that important? Cause it makes the universe feel bigger, through all these shows and movies, the stakes raise, the scope gets bigger. The sense that you're seeing more and more of what the federation is capable of.

They even keep this going well with voyager. Voyager is abandoned out deep, deep, deep in space. It gives you this sense of how big the universe is how large this world that treck inhabits as a fictional universe is. And complaints about the show aside? The ship itself is sleek, its beautiful its a fucking beast. The federations technology progresses, the stakes manage to raise in one way or another. And thats the thing, it keeps happening through all these shows. Trek gives you this sense by watching all of it just how big of a world it is. It gives you this feeling that there's so much to it, that the gears keep moving when you're not looking.

And now? The obsession is with doing stuff like Enterprise. Setting it in the past scaling it back done. I wanted, and continue to want things to grow. The scope, the tech, the stakes. That feeling that more and more and more is getting unveiled about this giant universe. So while I have hopes for this show? I'm not sure that it can meet my want. My wants to see where this universe goes. To find out more and more about this big fucking world that star trek exists in. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated. I really do want to see the future of this world at some point.All this said? Mabey just mabey this show will be good.
>>
DaiMon Birta - Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:54:59 EST ID:nyb2IkZ7 No.57224 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57220
I think movie producers prefer drama rather than big-thinking canon type movies. it's way easier for one thing. I totally agree though, I like star trek for the big think stuff and how vast the universe is.
>>
Temporal Agent Daniels - Tue, 06 Dec 2016 13:02:47 EST ID:3xil6/oq No.57229 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57224
I think sometimes even ENT worked though. In season 4 a lot of the episodes backfilled details. They didn't make the universe more expansive but they covered new areas and expanded the galaxy by exploring things that don't exist later on.

However unless discovery makes us question premises we took for granted in earlier seasons or turns vaguely mentioned footnotes into huge stories it's going to let us down.
>>
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Thu, 08 Dec 2016 13:45:49 EST ID:gX9GRN4a No.57252 Report Quick Reply
Here's an interview with Fuller explaining his departure - http://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-bryan-fuller-bittersweet-departure-star-trek-527540
>>
Tokath - Thu, 08 Dec 2016 21:22:24 EST ID:yoKMOG5P No.57259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57252
Fuck man. Chance of there being a DS9/B5 vibe with STD and American Gods?
>>
Hikaru Sulu - Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:31:49 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57262 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57220
The infuriating thing about Enterprise is that there was plenty of room to broaden Trek's scope, and it did a little of that in the last season. There were some good ideas in ENT that were well-executed, such as presenting the Andorians as a dangerous warrior race, specifically because of their goofy looks. I really did like the early Federation stuff, though the cast was still anemic. But ENT fell down the same trap as VOY: Trying to replicate TNG with inferior material.
>>
Thalen - Fri, 09 Dec 2016 17:12:39 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57267 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57262
>>the Andorians as a dangerous warrior race, specifically because of their goofy looks
Actually the Andorians were already established as a warrior race in dialogue the first time we see them in 'Journey to Babel.' In fact, about the only thing we learn about them is that they used to be even more savage than humans.
>>
Borg Queen - Fri, 09 Dec 2016 21:26:39 EST ID:lBKJJHNa No.57272 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57262
ENT has also aged pretty well now that it's just another Trek series as opposed to being that weird thing nobody really liked. It has some legitimately dope Trek episodes. Lots of just by the numbers average Trek. And some insanely bad episodes of course, more than there should be perhaps.
>>
Chulak - Sat, 10 Dec 2016 00:00:01 EST ID:sQLio0UG No.57273 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57272

Extinction has to be the worst episode of ENT, just to add to this post.
>>
Chell - Sat, 10 Dec 2016 07:09:32 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57276 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57267
Right, that's true. I'm just used to them being in the background all the time. But I do believe ENT specifically went for them because they were the quintessential "weird colour with antennea" type of alien.

>>57272
It aged well in some terms, like in set design. Of course, that's because it's all stainless steel catways. Kind of reminds me of the JJTrek Enterprise, to be honest. But the CGI aged horribly, like all CGI. And the show itself was still simply bad. It did some things right, but it's legit the Trek I enjoyed the least. When it finally comes into its own, it's still carrying that legacy of suck, and it pulls it under. And most characters never develop into likable people.
>>
Lt. JG Nog - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:42:21 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57344 Ignore Report Quick Reply
http://www.eonline.com/news/816045/star-trek-discovery-has-found-its-lead-in-sonequa-martin-green

Honestly, this chick is pretty good in TWD. So I'm interested to see how she will fare as captain. They definitely could have made worse picks I suppose.
>>
Phlox - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 16:42:30 EST ID:zdJLz8PT No.57345 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57344

Is it weird if I was excited for a black-female captain (mostly to redeem women captains after Insaneway) but when I heard the main character is going to be a Lt. Cmdr. it bothers me? That just feels like we're going to have a lot of moments of the lower ranked officer knowing better than the captain.

Unless it's like a whole "young captain" thing and we get to see her change from a brash young starfleet officer to someone ready to take her own command by the end of the series, like they could have done with Riker if TV hadn't been so primitive back then. That would be cool. Except it'll never happened because there's no way this won't get cancelled after two seasons, unfortunately
>>
Tal Celes - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:41:35 EST ID:CHCnx9IP No.57346 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57272
Honestly Enterprise has far more good episodes than TNG does.
TNG has it's status entirely due to nostalgia goggles
>>
Captain Kargan - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:50:32 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57347 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57346
Are you trying to have everyone jump down your throat?
>>
Tal Celes - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:14:41 EST ID:CHCnx9IP No.57352 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57347
Seriously, all the worst episodes of ENT were already on TNG.
From Riker falling in love with the Asexual butt-head girl as Trip falling in love with and teaching to read, the Asexual Cat Girl.
Then you have the Ferengi take the ship episode, another example of a shitty TNG episode.
You know what's missing from ENT?
No "OH NO DIANA HAS BEEN PSYCHIC-RAPED... AGAIN" episodes
No Picard incompetently disregarding Worf, followed by the ship falling into horrifying calamity.
I mean, fuck Doddering Old Captain Pussy Pants and his first mate Date Rape Riker
>>
Captain Kargan - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:55:11 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57353 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57352

Ok, now I love ENT, but let's get real, you make a list of 'good' ENT episodes, and I'll make a list of 'good' TNG episodes, and we'll see which is longer. Or if you don't want a subjective sample, what about using one of the episode rating guides? I bet TNGs list would dwarf ENTs, even if you adjusted for the lengths of their respective runs.

ENT has 5-10 good episodes a season. TNG has, at most, 5-10 bad episodes a season.
>>
Kiaphet Amman'sor - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 21:32:48 EST ID:jn+i6Gd6 No.57356 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57352
>No "OH NO DIANA HAS BEEN PSYCHIC-RAPED... AGAIN" episodes
They swapped mind raping the females to getting them hooked on huffing industrial chemicals.

>>57353
Charts of each series IMDB ratings by episode: (I realize that's not the ideal standard)

TOS:
http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0060028
TNG:
http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0092455
DS9:
http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0106145
VOY:
http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0112178
ENT:
http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0244365

SFDebris has watched and reviewed a shitload of Trek, but he grades on a bell curve, so an Enterprise 5 rated episode is average for the series, and is likely worse than a 5 rated TNG episode, but here's a list of his rated episodes by rating:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/SFDebris
>>
Tal Celes - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 21:43:32 EST ID:CHCnx9IP No.57358 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57356
I get my own opinions by watching, fuck getting your opinions from a fucking eceleb
>>
Donik - Thu, 15 Dec 2016 22:55:46 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57360 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57346
I totally agree. I just finished watching season1 ofENT and i really don't understand the hate. It is 100x better than season 1 of tng minus1 or 2 great episodes. But season 1 of ent was consistently decent.
>>
Dr. Mora Pol - Fri, 16 Dec 2016 08:04:08 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57364 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57356
TNG holds both the highest rated episode and lowest. Shades of Grey sucked balls, but I can't beleve a harmless clip show is lower then fucking Threshold or A Night in Sickbay.
>>
Furel - Fri, 16 Dec 2016 09:13:50 EST ID:5aCbAqEw No.57365 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57364
Clip episodes get the auto skip treatment. especially when it's only season 2. I mean come the fuck on.
>>
Captain Kargan - Fri, 16 Dec 2016 14:57:49 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57369 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57364
It's the only clip episode in the history of Star Trek, and they wouldn't have done it if their backs weren't against the wall. Really, it doesn't even count as an episode, it deserves only to be purged from all memory. I would watch A Night in Sickbay on repeat for days before consenting to see that drivel.
>>
Kang - Fri, 16 Dec 2016 19:49:10 EST ID:CHCnx9IP No.57370 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57369
A Night In Sickbay is a good episode. It's simply humorous, is all.
I can't see any reason to dislike it other than reasons that make no sense.
How can you like that dumb bullshit on TNG where the hologram aliens are going to Verteron City and not like Night in Sickbay?
It's because Nostalgia Goggles is why
>>
Bernardo Calvera - Fri, 16 Dec 2016 23:05:24 EST ID:sS5y1lLA No.57372 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57370

>How can you like that dumb bullshit on TNG where the hologram aliens are going to Verteron City

Emergence is a dope episode.

>Nostalgia Goggles

This is a stupid argument.
>>
Leskit - Sat, 17 Dec 2016 05:14:48 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57381 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57371
Nah it's definitely not nostalgia, but comparing ENT and TNG is kinda like comparing apples and oranges. They're totally different, and have a totally different tone.
ENT has a lot of redeeming factors, it just wasn't executed perfectly. ENT couldn't find an enemy like TNG did with the borg and Q to really propel the show. But I really like ENT because they're groping around in the dark, they don't have the luxuries that TNG has with their ability to even have ethics like the prime directive and such, not to mention that they're on a weak ship in uncharted territory a lot of the time.
>>
Yeggie - Sat, 17 Dec 2016 20:24:15 EST ID:5veng0gk No.57382 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57371

>Shittalking ENT
>never watched any trek until recently

opinion discarded.jpg
>>
Miles O'Brien - Sun, 18 Dec 2016 02:23:37 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.57383 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57382
lol what do I have to watch it for 15 years to really appreciate it's subtleties or something, fuck you ent sucks, even voyager was a better trek
>>
Lysia Arlin - Sun, 18 Dec 2016 05:08:21 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57384 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57383
ohnoitsretarded.jpg
>>
Helena Rozhenko - Sun, 18 Dec 2016 11:13:01 EST ID:0ZbRzUd0 No.57385 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57384
idk wat all the hate is on miles here...ent sucked ultra ass.
>>
Natima Lang - Sun, 18 Dec 2016 13:18:38 EST ID:7XQfImWB No.57386 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57385
I don't care if someone's opinion is different than mine, but if someone is going to come up with the premise that ENT is better than TNG, they're going to have to use a better argument than "nostalgia goggles"
>>
Helena Rozhenko - Sun, 18 Dec 2016 14:25:38 EST ID:0ZbRzUd0 No.57387 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57386
idk from what i thought he said he was tired of the bullshit nostalgia goggles from ent and said that TNG was much better. which is fact.
enterprise is anus. pure dirty anus
>>
Willie Hawkins - Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:14:39 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57390 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57387
No, that's the opposite of what he's saying, which is why everyone is rustled.
>>
Kono - Tue, 20 Dec 2016 04:28:07 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.57408 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57384
dotjaypegdotpeg.jpg

if you are not trolling and actually think ENT is better than TNG then I will leave you alone because when I was young my mom told me it wasn't nice to make fun of people like you
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Fer'at - Tue, 20 Dec 2016 08:30:15 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57409 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57408
lol I never said ENT is better, I said they're like comparing apples and oranges. TNG is better.
>>
Fer'at - Tue, 20 Dec 2016 08:56:39 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57410 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57409
to expand on why I called him retarded is because VOY is immeasurably worse than ENT. There are no episodes of ENT that can even compare to the sheer stupidity and silliness of episodes like "Threshold" and "The Haunting of Deck Twelve"
That's not to mention how horribly unlikeable a lot of the characters on the VOY bridge crew are.
>>
Etana Jol - Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:43:36 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57414 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57410
Bringing up Threshold is like bringing up Shades of Grey or Move Along Home to say TNG or DS9 is bad. Every series has one or two episodes that are so irredeemable that if you judged the series based on that you would immediately cast it into the fire.
>>
Mezoti - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 16:52:52 EST ID:WYOYLo9K No.57429 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57414
So apply that to Enterprise.
I mean, you haven't ACTUALLY made an argument for Night In Sickbay being worse than say, the TNG episode where Data and Yar hook up.
Similarly, how is the episode where TNG crew meets the Space Irish somehow superior to Lonestar on Enterprise?
I mean, I just see a lot of "it's just bad and TNG is just good because reasons" and honestly, that's very obviously and factually Nostalgia Goggles talk.
I mean, you guys shittalk the episode where Archer and Hoshi turn into aliens on an alien world, and yet conveniently forget that shitfest where Geordi turns into an giant invisible lizardman.

I mean, I'll accept the argument that they are, like Genesis and SNES, Differently Awesome. That's fine, I can be an adult and realize that my tastes lean more toward Enterprise because I really enjoy the way the series all ties together through the Temporal Cold War, and how they have to do things they don't want to do in the Expanse and it colors how they act from there on, that's my personal taste. I like shows where people act like people, where they learn and grow.
TNG is not that show. Nobody learns from shit, nobody grows. The best stab they take at that is Wesley Crusher's shitty storyline.
Even Data doesn't change until the movies.

I mean, at least the crew of Enterprise CARES when their crewmen die. TNG crew didn't even really flinch when they lost YAR.
They really treat redshirts like cannon fodder. You don't see that on Enterprise. They actually have to look at rooms full of dead bodies, they have to write the letters to the families, et c. Archer carries it with him until he blows up during a debriefing in season 4.
>>
Mezoti - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:00:23 EST ID:WYOYLo9K No.57430 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57429
To expand, a major storyline going through the series is Enterprise making the relationships and changing the dynamics of the region, leading up to the founding of the Federation. What happens with Andoria and Vulcan, and later Tellar and Andoria, and the little things like Archer doing the apology ritual, which seems like a totally silly episode, all these things snowball into the first Alliance activities against the Romulans.

Also, here is a guy pointing out why 15 particular episodes of TNG suck.
I mean, he even uses ACTUAL REASONS as opposed to "it's just bad durr, I ain't gotta explain shit, durr durrr"

http://dsxreviews.blogspot.com/2013/07/15-of-worst-star-trek-tng-episodes.html
>>
Mezoti - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:22:28 EST ID:WYOYLo9K No.57431 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57430
Specifically, a Night In Sickbay is a good episode not just for silly bullshit like chasing bats and dopey dreams-- which, that shit is how it works, if you've ever paid attention to your dreams, some of them make you feel fucking embarrassing when you wake up-- but because ARCHER'S CHARACTER DEVELOPS, and he gets over his bullshit to apologize AND THE APOLOGY ITSELF is a step towards the Alliance that leads to the FEDERATION.

What did they accomplish in Verteron City episode?
Oh right, fucking nothing. Some weird shit happened, that was neat, next day is like it never happened
Which is the whole format of TNG. It's always "Weird shit happens, nothing gained nothing learned, file it at Daystrom, Tomorrow exactly the same"
And you know, so many people die in TNG that it's amazing it doesn't get as much shit as Voyager's endless supply of Shuttlecrafts.
Why doesn't Picard ever have to inform a family?
And why do we forgive Picard for stupidly not listening to Worf, every single time?
Like, seriously, the guy says "we hadn't ought to do this man" and Picard's like "shut up fag, let's fly full thrust into the Very Spooky Thing" people die, next day-- like nothing ever happened.
The crew of TNG has fucking learning disabilities. They never ever remember what literally just happened to them. And this is on a CIVILIAN FAMILY heavy ship. Like, what kind of madman puts all those little kids at risk? What kind of madness is that?
JELLICO WAS RIGHT
>>
Leeta - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:49:26 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57432 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57429
I have never argued that A Night in Sickbay is a bad episode, I actually like that episode. Same with Lonestar and the one where they turn into aliens. I really like ENT, I just don't like it as much as TNG and disagree with the idea that there are more bad episodes in the latter than the former.

But...
>>Even Data doesn't change until the movies
Then why did they have to include that bit in All Good Things where we see him talking like a total asshat about igniting the midnight oil like he did about everything in Season 1? We get to see him grow out of constantly babbling, learn how to be a father, learn how to deal with his father's death and his mother's peculiar fate, turn to the dark side and then after accept that his brother is evil and he can't help him, learn how to dance, learn how to dream...the guy has a mountain of development.
Same with all the other TNG regulars, it's just not as explicit as in DS9 or ENT because they were still learning the serialized format at that time. Picard goes from being totally alienated from his crew and hating children and being completely uptight to playing piano in the jeffries tubes and basically becoming 'dad' to the whole crew. Worf goes from being a self-hating self-important asshole to being a culturally fanatical self-important asshole. Geordi goes from being an awkward helmsman to being chief engineer (even though he still can't get a date.)
They didn't flinch when they lost Yar because her character was shit from the start and the actress left in a rude way so they felt no obligation to continue to build up her significance.

>>What did they learn in the Verteron city episode?
Uhh, that the ship was really a sentient entity the whole time like had been suggested throughout and we get to see it actually develop into a character that we ultimately feel pathos for when it leaves. How is that not significant?

>>Why doesn't Picard ever have to inform a family?
I guess you missed 'The Loss'?

>>Why do we forgive Picard for not listening to Worf
Because Worf is usually wrong, about everything (I hate Worf) his first suggestion is always immediately to blow up everything. Most of the time if Picard had followed a suggestion Worf offered at a time when he didn't, they later discover they would've all died or something horrible would've happened if they did.

You are obviously very grievously butthurt over TNG for some reason. But almost all of your complaints seem to be about the fact that the show has an episodic format unlike DS9 and VOY ('everything resets to normal' is the fucking format of the show) do you dislike TOS for the same reason? Everything resets in every episode of that too...
>>
Leeta - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:52:05 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57433 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57432
*unlike DS9 and ENT. I'm on the drugs. nb
>>
Chairman Koval - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 18:45:13 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57431
First off, I love ENT, but I don't think that it's better than TNG.
You make some good points, but I feel like you're missing the mark on character development in TNG. You say that they're stale and don't develop, but they do develop, just in minute ways compared to the development of characters in ENT.
The characters in TNG are all way too perfect. They hardly have any character flaws, and when they do, they're something silly and trivial like Geordi not being able to get a date, which is mostly just a non-factor in the show besides getting a laugh at his expense every now and then.
In ENT, the characters have some flaws and are groping in the dark, so they have a lot more room to improve.
In TNG, they're already situated into the Federation and are basically on cruise control with a stable system and seemingly stable perfect personalities, at least for the bridge crew of the Enterprise.
That's my biggest problem with TNG is that the bridge crew is too perfect. This is why my favorite character in TNG is Barclay. He's the only one that I can really relate to at all because he actually has issues and isn't just perfect.
>>
Ambassador Thoris - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 19:16:59 EST ID:WYOYLo9K No.57438 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57432
>>57437

These are reasonable arguments.
I'll lighten up on TNG if you lighten up on ENT.
SOLIDARITY
>>
Jaro Essa - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 19:50:34 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57439 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57438
I've always been in the ENT is dank camp (except for season 3 -_-) but I'll still say here-here.
Is this the fabled 'reasonableness on the internet'!?
There's hope after all.
>>
Ambassador Thoris - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 19:54:00 EST ID:WYOYLo9K No.57440 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57439
You guys want to get fuckin RILED?
Christopher Knowles is this blogger who does some sick paranormal blogs, usually to do with Scifi TV and Comic history, his Secret Star Trek series is a fucking OPUS.
However, he said in one of his posts that the TOS movies were and I quote- "Unwatchable today"

>ME STATUS: RILED

Here's the good article beginning. There's like 10 parts iirc, and it gets spookier as it goes

http://secretsun.blogspot.com/2013/06/secret-star-trek-part-1-california.html
>>
Jaro Essa - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:06:35 EST ID:+5hgZe3l No.57441 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57440
The TOS movies are legit, honestly I think any time someone says something is unwatchable 'today' generally means they have a hard time understanding things in context in general.

However, HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS ARTICLE. Like you read the first bit and it just seems like a kinda trashy takedown of STID, but you get to part 2 and there is so much fucking /tinfoil/ that you could completely coat the surface of the earth with it. I feel like I took acid I'm so schizo after reading that shit, that guy is a legit loon. I couldn't make it past part 2 m8, wanna tell me how it ends?
>>
Ambassador Thoris - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:33:01 EST ID:WYOYLo9K No.57442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57441
it really has to be experienced. It gets best around part 4 or 5 I think, when he's talking about fucking Esalen and Aleister Crowley and Les Stephens

It's a masterwork of crazy bullshit
>>
Belongo - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:53:04 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.57443 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57429
TNG crew didn't even really flinch when they lost YAR.
Yar's death is thoughtfully mourned at the end of Skin of Evil. Worf even questions if he's good enough to fill her shoes. Data faps to that hologram a number of times. Her death is explicitly mentioned in over half a dozen episodes including one where they meet her sister, two where they meet her daughter, and it plays a pivotal role in the events of Yesterday's Enterprise. Yar's death is the trigger for Guinan to KNOW something is wrong with the world they're in.

Don't really see how you can say that Yar's death was not addressed enough by the show or the crew unless you haven't watched TNG since it first aired and you simply don't remember the series.
>>
Admiral Hayes - Thu, 22 Dec 2016 01:34:01 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57449 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57439
That's the thing about this board that I think is so great. This board has the best discussion on this whole site imo.
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Legate Kell - Mon, 26 Dec 2016 14:26:21 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57482 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57381
The thing is, The Borg and Q aren't the big enemies everyone makes them out to be. The amount of Borg and Q episodes are tiny in TNG and VOY alike (unless you count Seven). In fact, we're even referring to them as "Borg/Q episodes" because they are the exception rather than the norm.

In contrast ENT had two big enemies, the Suliban and the Xindi, who each got more episodes centered around them in one season than the Borg and Q got in seven. The problem was that they didn't represent anything except a threat the needs dealing with. In retrospect, the Suliban's genetic modication was interesting and just what Trek has lacked in terms of theme. And it's barely even mentioned. It's just used so they can be a little more threatening. Which they don't really need to be in ENT. Regular guys in regular ships were already scary, and that's one of the few things ENT actually did right.

The Borg and Q are immediately foreboding. Q because he's pretty much God, and the Borg because they represent a Negative Federation: Similar idealism delivered through forced conformity. Both Q and the Borg represent existential threats beyond ENT's "lol we kill u" villains.

And of course DS9 also had villains who took up loads of screentime, and who are traditional "dudes in spaceships" villains. And just like with TNG, they represent something beyond pure asskicking power. Again, like the Borg, they are also a kind of Negative Federation, and this is what delivered the punch behind the Breen's attack on Earth. That was a scary moment, not only because they struck a blow you never thought you would see, but because just when the Dominion seemed to be on the ropes, they recruit another species while the Feds are having trouble keeping their own in order. Again, they represent an existential threat beyond pure killing.

ENT never had that. The Xindi superweapon seemed very silly, too. No-one in ENT would need one, because all it'd take is one sufficiently advanced starship parking itself in orbit and blasting the surface at its leisure. And that's *way* more scary than some idiots tinkering on a discount deathstar.
>>
Legate Kell - Mon, 26 Dec 2016 14:40:22 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57483 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57441
It's basically the nostalgia goggles argument, and it's something that's very often flatout wrong. And you're right, it also has a lot to do with people being unable to take context into account. This has always irked me about Trek criticism. You know, like the rubber forehead aliens? Yeah, it's a TV show with a budget. And it's also kind of important to give actors, especially weaker supporting actors, the chance to fucking emote. With their faces. Not doing that only worked for Odo because the character is supposed to be distant.

And of course, then they turn around and post the Gorn fight from Arena, because ROFL look at that guy's slow punches while he's trying to see Shatner in that hot rubber suit.

It's a cynical point of view where they discount the possibility of people liking something for merits other than production values. I dislike it because it's basically a sort of strawman argument that relies in doing people's thinking for them and telling them what kind of taste they have (i.e. if it isn't shiny, it's impossible to like). It betrays a lack of empathy, or an unwillingness to employ it.
>>
Weyoun 8 - Mon, 26 Dec 2016 15:52:42 EST ID:siczhJsP No.57484 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57482
I agree with all of that, but what I meant about the Borg and Q in TNG, is that they were great enemies that just worked perfectly. Quality, not quantity, and those episodes made the show great. ENT didn't have anything quite that good, so that's why in my mind it's good, not great. If TNG never had The Borg or Q episodes, it would be good, not great as well. ENT just never found something that worked seamlessly like some of the Borg arcs and Q episodes did. But after reading your post we clearly agree on that. I just cut ENT some more slack I guess. I think that if they had better writers they could have had greatness.
>>
Subcommander Velal - Tue, 27 Dec 2016 01:56:54 EST ID:17x1fDf5 No.57491 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57483
low production values just make me use my imagination more. I love old Doctor Who for the same reasons I love 60s Trek.
>>
Legate Hovat - Tue, 27 Dec 2016 18:06:12 EST ID:fAeA5Wu2 No.57495 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57484
OP here, when did this turn into a TNG v ENT shitstorm? Can we talk about DSC?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/

Also, I like TNG more than ENT but man are the Borg and Borg episodes overrated. Unless it specifically has Q in it any Borg episode gets a pass from me.
>>
Guinan - Thu, 29 Dec 2016 23:17:19 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57520 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57487
>coulda
>woulda
>shoulda

that's the best you'll ever get out of ENT

Take my headcanon instead: Trip doesn't die saving the ship as depicted in the finale, in real life he gets that fucking gnarly scar you see in the mirror universe trip, and shran becomes a member of the crew after mayweather is killed under reed's watch and he becomes the helmsman instead, with shran taking his place at tactical.. he still gets all soldier mode on away missions and whatnot but something about losing mayweather really affects him and no one knows why, until it's eventually revealed they had been lovers since day one.. but during the romulan war, reed missed when firing a shot against a romulan missile and it hit mayweather's shuttlepod, killing him and hoshi both in the dramatic season 5 finale.. he's just never been the same since, but it's his tactical know-how and his suggestions that win the war against the Romulans, setting the stage for the United Federation of Planets

Also for some reason Phlox takes over for Hoshi and a young starfleet doctor named Philip Boyce takes over as doctor, Phlox always berates him for doing things wrong and eventually they decide to both be the doctor. This is of course after Hoshi is revealed to have survived as a Romulan prisoner and also for no reason you get to see dat ass in the decon chamber. She also turns out to be a double agent for the Romulan Empire.

The finale is Archer being promoted to Admiral and Trip to Captain

Future Guy turns out to be Archer from the distant future, but in the episode Archer ends up killing him and avoiding that possible future by seeing what he would become (with Porthos' help, of course)

The temporal cold war is hinted to be how the Q Continuum began, through human federation temporal agents that got lost in the folds of subspace

That's how Enterprise really went, the rest was Riker's fantasy (unless it's an episode I liked, such as the one with the Klingon ship sinking into the gas giant)
>>
Kimara Cretak - Fri, 30 Dec 2016 05:25:30 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57526 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57520
Point is, ENT just didn't get its shit together fast enough. It's a miracle it even got four seasons in the first place, and today it would probably be cancelled after one. No series can survive four seasons without any real direction, unless it's some horrible sitcom, because for some reason people love those. The other Treks taught us that you need to have a plan by season 2. Even if it's a halfassed plan, like VOY's. But even VOY drops the Borg in season 3.
>>
Boq'ta - Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:10:36 EST ID:UKKS3Tki No.57529 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57526
Yeah that guy who said TNG didn't hit it's stride till season 4, the thing is, it produced a lot of good episodes even during season 2. ENT wasn't just "not it's best" in seasons 2 and 3. While TNG was good but still improving ENT was just crap. It had some good episodes but TNG had some amazing ones.

The executives finally gave up during season 4. That's why it's good.

My biggest concern with DIS is that it will be driven by greedy execs who don't realise. Trek cannot compete as an action franchise. You shouldn't throw big league money at it like that. Not everything needs to be mega huge to make a profit. Profit is the difference between costs and revenue, for some things the biggest profit you can make is at a MUCH lower revenue level than "LETS BE LIKETHE AVENGERS LOL" (to use a film example). There's only so much room in the market so putting out another big wannabe blockbuster in a market that's way past saturation is asking for a huge loss and it's stupid when profits await people willing to aim for niches. But no you're a bigshot exec so the big prize or nothing. Then you shitcan the crappy show and bury the franchise and blame piracy.
>>
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Sat, 31 Dec 2016 01:11:04 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.57544 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57529
CBS likes to say that Star Trek is their most valuable property, and they follow that up with being helicoptor parents. They just can't let anything mature on it's own, and let the writers flesh out the universe without stepping in to add heaping amounts of vanilla to everything.

I'm most disappointed with ST Enterprise because I never got to see this happen.
>>
Erika Benteen - Sat, 31 Dec 2016 07:35:04 EST ID:SSpEV6jw No.57545 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57194
Considering how many Chinese people there are on Earth it would make sense for there to be ships with mostly Chinese crew.
>>
Nurse Jabara - Sat, 31 Dec 2016 11:14:41 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57546 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57529
Yeah, people like to say season 2 TNG is bad, but it's so much better than season 1. When I look at the season 1 episode list, I see a lot of stinkers. Most of them are episodes I wouldn't watch if I had the choice. And the best are stuff like Space Drugs. When one of the better episodes is a hamhanded anti-drug message, it's not a good season. But at the same time Space Drugs DID feature proper use of the PD, as Picard decides to invoke it because it will be better for the aliens involved, and not because he's a fascist who follows the rules even when it fucks people. They don't even think about the PD when they think they're just helping people. ENT doesn't do shit like that. In their PD episode they actively withhold a cure from a people because they believe in the manifest destiny of a second species. For fuck's sake, any other reason would have done the trick. Shit, just say "Captain Glassjaw, this cure can also be used as a weapon with relatively little effort. They don't have the technology to stop it if they did this, but if we tell them they'll know for sure, and they're also at war with these other guys, so chances are good that they'll use it". Boom, totally acceptable moral dilemma that Archer would have to work through all by his lonesome. It'd be even better if they cast the episode after the fact, with Archer preparing for some fort of Vulcan tribunal because "he let these people die, that evil human bastard". And we gradually discover more and more, and begin to understand Archer's "inhuman" side. You get your PD shoutout, and have Archer work through his problems with the Vulcans at the same time as they end up looking favourably on his biggest call yet.

Well, I'm writing my own episode again. But it's just so easy for ENT. TNG isn't easy to correct. It's general stuff like "make Pulaski less of a bitch", or "put Deanna in a uniform". But ENT just sets up a lot of cool stuff, and then misuses it. A prequel set during the development of the Federation, with the Romulan war, with showing Vulcans not as those funny pacifists, but as asshole overlords. It's all good stuff. I really WANT to like it.

And yeah, executives seem retarded. It's hard to guess how they even got their money when they don't really seem to get how a show like this works. It's like they're in a reverse Matrix, where they don't see what's on the screen, but instead see focus groups, the "new audience", return on investment calculations. They always seem to want to rival the biggest thing of the moment. And they are shortsighted. Star Trek is a massive franchise, and has a big market presence even with no show on air. A half-assed show harms that market presence.

But we've just had the re-ignition of Star Wars and Star Trek, in all its JJ Abrams "Generic Movie Product" glory. They want to follow that road, not the risky road that TOS, TNG, and DS9 walked. And honestly, I'm worried that they're right. People are throwing millions at these empty reboots, seemingly forgetting the the originals were so good because they were novel, progressive, exciting. But we're living in a world where we've gone from people joking about "rubber forehead aliens" to JJ shaving the Caitians because the real deal would be too weird.
>>
Lursa - Sun, 01 Jan 2017 09:46:34 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57549 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57547
Personally, I think JJ just did that because death and explosions equals drama in his eyes. He did the same shit with Star Wars. Somehow the crippled Empire manages to make an EVEN BIGGER Death Star, that destroys entire systems at once. But that shit will never be as iconic as the original, because it's all more of the same.

Dude just really likes blowing shit up in his movies. But because he's not Micheal Bay, he seems subdued in comparison.
>>
Weyoun 7 - Sun, 01 Jan 2017 11:53:01 EST ID:sS5y1lLA No.57550 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57549

While you are probably correct, I am going to choose to remain ignorant and believe my version.

I mean, blow up Vulcan, sure, but kill Sarek's Babymomma? Why?

nb. also happy new year, 1701.
>>
Silik - Sun, 01 Jan 2017 14:42:13 EST ID:OZhk/hzP No.57551 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57549
plus Superweapon of the Month was THE worst period of the old SW:EU
just cringeworthy watching him get praise for literally pulling the same shit
>>
General K'Trelan - Mon, 02 Jan 2017 08:51:59 EST ID:FnPPN4Cv No.57555 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57551
Fuck JJtrek and JJwars. Rogue One wasn't great either but damn all my universes help
>>
Jaresh-Inyo - Mon, 02 Jan 2017 15:08:34 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57550
JJ doesn't know who Sarek is, and neither does his "new audience". They know Spock is half human because it was in the character brief. Shit, the death scene for her is basically the same as in the new Independence Day. The one with Data. It's paint-by-the-numbers character motivation. I'm willing to bet my left nut that they had more or less the following conversation:

>OK, what are our character motivation?
>Wait, wait, Kirk and Spock are our only main characters, right?
>Yeah, of course. They're just the diversity quota chick, the comic relief, and I don't even know what the doctor is supposed to be. Wish we could scratch him, to be honest
>OK. So Kirk's dad gets killed right at the start, and we having this little "passing of baton" thing so our audience knows he'll be a good captain, but what about Spock?
>Don't we kill his entire planet so we can show the audience why this superweapon is a big deal?
>Yeah, but what does the audience care about some random planet? It's not like they have any emotional connection to the place
>Shit, you're right. These viewers are dumb as rocks. I got it, kill the dude's mother while we're at it. That always tugs the heartstrings.
> Really? They won't notice that this bad guy just randomly kills the two main characters' parents in a way that's collateral damage to him, but deeply personal and life-altering to them?
>Nah, what did I just say? Dumb as rocks.

>>57551
It's kind of weird. Imagine if there was this hugely popular series of movies about an evil lord in an impregnable castle, and in the end the good guys sneak in through the privy (kind of like in LotR, from the Orc perspective, I suppose). And then subsequently all the other stuff in the same of franchise has this focus on ever bigger, ever more menacing castles to the point where it gets ridiculous. Our Force Awakens version would have an entire mountain that is a castle, and has the world's biggest catapult at the summit.
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Gul Macet - Mon, 02 Jan 2017 16:50:16 EST ID:aF4yt+ub No.57563 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57561
Maybe I'm just high but this made me laugh until I cried. Have a great 2017.
>>
Nanpart Malor - Tue, 03 Jan 2017 21:45:54 EST ID:njbbkjvx No.57568 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57561
Don't talk about Independence Day 2, it still triggers me
>>
Guinan - Wed, 04 Jan 2017 21:47:45 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57574 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57544
I second that emotion

the NX refit not only looked badass but it also sucessfully bridged the tech styles of ENT and TOS
>>
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 21:45:19 EST ID:PDoEVFqX No.57699 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57574
The Trek that never was....

Would have been awesome to see the beginnings of a Federation being forged to fight against the invasive Romulan Empire.
>>
Ba'el - Sat, 21 Jan 2017 22:17:30 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.57727 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>The CBS All Access series will no longer debut in May.

>The revival has cast James Frain as Spock's father


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-delayed-again-as-spocks-father-is-cast-965494
>>
Guinan - Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:59:31 EST ID:TCdyuc/F No.57728 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Pushed back 6 months, set in a time period no one cares about, using a streaming service that forces you to pay to watch ads, and with a showrunner who basically defined the show and then abandoned ship. This is going great so far, and it hasn't even started.
>>
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 00:32:55 EST ID:asWVBJxF No.57737 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57727
That's pretty cool. Frain was awesome as Ferdinand on Orphan Black.

>>57732
It reminds of when Yahoo picked up Community to try and help drive views to their streaming service Yahoo Screen. Then again that was free and ended up being a huge money loser the company had to write off. I think CBS should use All Access as its own ad supported VOD app like Fox, ABC, NBC have with theirs but also have its shows available next day on Hulu like the other networks do and have Star Trek actually air on CBS. Honestly it sucks that it's even on CBS to begin with because regardless of it being the highest rated network, their shows are chock full of procedurals and shitty studio sitcoms. It's probably a good thing that Supergirl ended up moving to The CW.
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 01:44:24 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.57738 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57737
>their shows are chock full of procedurals and shitty studio sitcoms.
Tell me about it. I left the TV on after football on CBS and the crap shows they've been showing. Jesus christ.
>>
DaiMon Nunk - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:54:45 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.57741 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57728
>using a streaming service that forces you to pay to watch ads

well, magnet link, transmission maximum seed period engage.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 24 Jan 2017 00:39:06 EST ID:wvFGPKIO No.57748 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57741
This kills the fledgling series

CBS is so fucking stupid, even if any of pay for their service to keep the series going we will probably all watch it like this, and/or on cytube, we aren't gonna watch their normie shit
>>
Ensign Wright - Tue, 24 Jan 2017 02:34:40 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.57749 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57748
And I guarantee we're not the only trek fans that will refuse to buy their shitty service and will just pirate it. Probably a decent chunk of us feel the same way.
>>
Kessick - Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:04:09 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57764 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57748
It's almost like there was another time a company tried to run a media service by drawing everybody with one show and filling the rest with crap.

Oh wait, THAT WAS ALSO FUCKING STAR TREK (it also happened to B5 too around the same time.)

In related Discovery bashing news, how is everyone taking the words of even further delay, now moving into that wonderous, always-good-things-come-from-it time slot of 'To be announced' ?
>>
Harry Kim - Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:40:35 EST ID:NtJHxWJd No.57765 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>
David Marcus - Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:00:56 EST ID:TJx6CT+d No.57767 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57764
I keep forgetting that Voyager was on UPN, not syndicated.

DS9 on BBCA when?
>>
Guinan - Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:36:50 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57769 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57765
This is why you never got promoted, Harry, this and having about 17 different opportunities to "teach seven of nine about human sexuality" that you bitched out on like a pathetic beta autist
>>
Commander Donatra - Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:48:16 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.57772 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57769
seriously

at that point even Geordi would have accidentally dropped his visor and stumbled into that vagina
>>
Emperor Sompek - Wed, 25 Jan 2017 23:55:48 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57773 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57769
Are you serious? Last time Harry had sex Janeway put a fucking formal reprimand on his record for it. Something she didn't do to Tom when he took part in a TERRORIST ATTACK on a planet.
>>
Guinan - Thu, 26 Jan 2017 00:59:33 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57774 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57773
>Be Harry Kim
>get in trouble for having sex
>get in trouble for not having sex
>get in trouble for being Asian
>get in trouble for saving the ship
>entire starfleet record since joining Voyager is reprimands
>>
Robin Lefler - Sat, 28 Jan 2017 01:59:58 EST ID:qZsPp04G No.57788 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>fucking seven of nine
harry knew not to stick his dick in crazy
>all that repression
>>
Dr. Reyga - Sat, 28 Jan 2017 06:15:13 EST ID:UKKS3Tki No.57791 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57788
The other question is what other borg implants did she have left? Maybe it'd be like teeth down there. "Actually I wish to terminate this experience, you should go to sick bay now"
>>
Guinan - Sun, 29 Jan 2017 22:37:47 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57812 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57791
As made up Trek Scenes go, this is up there with "sisko comes back as a baseball shaped tear of the prophet that calls everyone jake-o" and "luxwana eased into the mudbath, and as the mudbath moaned sexily she realized it was constable odo".

I hope when I'm old and Alzheimer's kicks in (if they don't cure it by then) I hope I get confused and think this was a real scene.
>>
Lysia Arlin - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:19:08 EST ID:MUJ4M6tq No.57816 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57813
What's your beef?
>>
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:18:55 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.57817 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57813
It makes it even worse when you watch the episodes of Enterprise that have the DVD commentary and you hear how the producers on the show thought Bakula was the absolute best thing about that show.
>>
Sarek - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 22:47:05 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57820 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57817
What's with all the Bakula hate? He's a decent actor and one of the only captains who was already famous in sci-fi before becoming captain.

I mean sure, his acting shits the bed in season 3, but that's because the *writing* shits the bed in season 3. And who doesn't love water polo, amirite?
>>
Jannar - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:09:57 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57825 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57820
I think the problem with Bakula is that he isn't really distinctive. Kirk was... Kirk, Picard had this distinctive chrome dome and fantastic Shakespearean acting, Sisko is the personification of badass black guy, and Janeway was.... Janeway. Out of all of them, Archer was the most normal. He looks like a normal guy, he sounds like a normal guy, he even acts like a normal guy. My sister had all of this to say about Archer: "He looks grumpy".

And the writers did try to do *something* with that normal guy vibe, but they just weren't very good. I mean, Trip gets a lot of hate, but they did have the stones to make him a country bumpkin, an archetype hitherto presumed extinct in Trek. Reed wasn't very distinctive, but it was acted out convincingly as a believable and somewhat interesting character trait. He was reserved and didn't say a lot about himself, while the rest tried to pry it out of him. But Archer was just sort of... there. He did Captain stuff, and did it neither particularly well, or particularly interestingly. He had a beef with the Vulcans, liked waterpolo, and had a dog. Those aren't really character traits. Those are just boxes ticked on a list.

In contrast, Jack O'Neill from Stargate is the "normal guy" trope put to perfection. He's the one average person on a team with two scientists and an ancient Egyptian with a snake in his gut. But he has a set of distinctive, normal dude character traits. He's basically just someone's hardass dad. But he doesn't just watch The Simpsons, he mentions it in a normal conversation like a fan would. He's a guy with obvious likes, dislikes, mannerisms, etc. In short, he's distinctive, just not extraordinary. And I think Archer should have been written as an O'Neill. If Archer had been the guy to give Trip a death stare whenever he mentions catfish, or would subtly insult Reeds Britishness, he might have come across as a human being.
>>
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:51:23 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.57826 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57820
He is too convincing as a racist earthling who is mad we aren't given free technology. Everyone on the ship has a better personality than he does. He is obnoxious, stubborn, and gets beaten up alot because he runs into stupid situations.

He was ok in the Broken Bow pilot, but then he gets dumber and stays dumber all the way to Season 4, where he becomes somewhat competent as a Captain. It's like he only got the job because everyone thinks it's cute that he's the captain of a ship powered by a warp core his dad designed.
>>
Sarek - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:29:17 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57827 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57825
>>57826
So the former of you says he's bad because he's too generic, while the latter says he's bad because he's too racist/technology-greedy/obnoxious/stubborn. And I mean, ok, both of those are aspects of the way his character was written, but here's some things to think about.
1) He had to have a certain amount of genericness to him. We had just gone three series of space shows focused on the captain who weren't white american dudes in a show whose primary demographic is ostensibly white american dudes, and as a prequel I think there was a lot of pressure to make him as close to Kirk on paper as possible. And yeah, most of the stuff that was in there to build his character, the water polo stuff, the racism against Vulcans, the herpdy-derp I'm just ambling through space attitude (until he becomes the supreme edgelord post Xindi) weren't written as convincingly or as compellingly as the corresponding aspects of the other captains...but that's not Bakula's fault, is it?
He shines in certain episodes, usually Suliban/Timeguy ones, or one's where he's greatly overmatched like Silent Enemy or the nacelle tube number. He's number 5 on my list of captains for sure, but it's a solid 5.

I will say that Trip and Reed are the most interesting and realistic characters on the show though, for sure, and Trip's appeal does originate in how closely he hews to the redneck archetype -- although I would argue that Paris is also the same kind of redneck (obsessed with fast vehicles, loves dogs, very questionable taste in holonovels) just diluted by 200 more years of Federationization.
>>
Jannar - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:09:24 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57829 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57827
Well, I did say they tried to give him that normal guy appeal, but failed. Those character traits are part of that, but they never really inform his character, and there's no real internal consistency in them.

Let's take his beef with the Vulcans. It comes up when he argues with T'Pol and when they encounter Vulcans, and usually in a petulant way where he doesn't want to admit they're right. But you don't see it when he's interacting with other species. It doesn't really drive his ambitions, and it's never properly explored.

And no, it's not Bakula's fault. But Bakula still isn't as distinctive an actor as all the other Captains.

As for Trip and Paris, I always found Trip to be more genuine. The guy from SFDebris thinks Trip is an idiot, but I think Trip is just kind of awkward, because he's a country bumpkin. With Paris, it always seemed kind of dishonest. He's typically that Trek dude who's interested in 20th century Earth... just because. And I'm of in line with Paris' likes, but it all seemed kind of safe. Like when he recreates a movie theatre on the holodeck. That's typically one of those things one of us would never do, but rather place ourselves in those movie plots. Captain Proton was pretty cool, though. For exactly that reason.

On another board I made a way too long "fix Enterprise" post, but one of the things I suggested was making T'Pol a bit of an outcast from the start, and giving her a sincere interest in Earth. She could have been the Data of the show, and that's something I would have liked to see play off these characters who are closer to us in culture than any other Trek crew. In TNG, it's "people used to be backwards in humanity's past", but these guys ARE humanity's past. And that's what I liked about Trip, I guess. This sincere look at "backwards" humanity. Especially because he's often used as the main actor for first contact stuff where he has to deal with alien cultures, and he's pretty progressive. In fact, I wish they explored Reed's Navy connection more, too. People still considering a surface navy to be a viable, useful thing and the disconnect it represents between the old world and new is something that the "later" Treks never had the oppertunity for, either.

All of Enterprise's good episodes focused on what made the show's setting unique. All the bad ones were trying to retread TNG ground. Well, I went on a bit of a tangent, I guess, because this goes beyond Archer. But he was never really suited to those fake TNG episodes. Watching Archer bumble around on some planet, playing the saviour, was pure pain. But watching him play weird space sports with space Arabs, or watching him try and deal with Klingons while keeping them away from his glass jaw was entertaining.
>>
Lursa - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:36:01 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.57830 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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teaser trailer is out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9QHrNdgX4U
>>
Sarek - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:43:02 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57831 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57829
I agree all those things would've gone a long way to improving ENT. I never really noticed until you pointed it out but yeah, T'Pol was supposed to be the Data/Spock of that show and her utter failing at filling that role is part of what leaves such a huge hole in the character dynamic. Really, she's the most shittily written Vulcan of all, half the time she's more emotional and flighty than the humans (probably because Trek writers in general fail at depicting women in a non-stereotypical way, and thus woman = emotional.)

And yeah I think Reed's Navy stuff should have been explored a whole lot more. We could've even gotten a whole plotline that could've been used to explain the evolution of Starfleet out of earth's space agencies and the tension with the actual military as they lose influence to an emerging and militarizing Starfleet. I wonder how much of it is explored in non-canon sources?
>>
Sarek - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:49:06 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57832 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57830
Wow ok forget my useless ENT rant, there is actually relevant information in this.
>>'Production has begun' like that's a feature or something...3 months before their prior release date.
I'm guessing that crappy set we see built is literally as far as they've gotten right now, if they had more to show, they would've shown it.
>>The ship we see a wireframe model of looks an awful lot like a Centaur-class
...a 24th century ship. Hint at time travel, or just doing whatever they feel like?
>>Blue/gold uniforms
Ugh god plz lets not imitate Beyond like it's something worth imitating?
>>Xenomorph like alien bits?
Could be p cool.
>>
Donik - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:20:06 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.57833 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57830
well, the captains chair looked kinda cool..
>>
Donik - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:21:49 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.57834 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57833
but basically what I got from that trailer is "Hey trekkies, we're actually still doing this, don't get un-hyped. We still want your money." And they said that in a very flimsy way by showing a half put together set as some sort of proof.
>>
Yeggie - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:37:16 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.57835 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57834

paramount should have just taken over Axanar.
>>
Ensign Miral Paris - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:45:21 EST ID:TJx6CT+d No.57836 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57834
I mean, at least they're showing that they'r eworking on something but yeah outside of that, a whole lotta nothing.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:03:27 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57837 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57830
Klingon uniforms look nice. Starfleet uniforms look nice, just a blend of TOS and ENT, somehow I didn't really expect that.. I'm assuming the person we see a glimpse of is a main character. There's a weird helmet thing partway through, the fuck was that? Anyone else notice the bridge diagram had a different ship name?
>>
Guinan - Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:04:11 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57838 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57835

Fucking this. Legally, they could have.
>>
Guinan - Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:01:24 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.57839 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57837
>>57838
After stewing on it a bit I have to admit this pathetic minute long clip of 50% text and pictures of cast members of previous shows dicking around does nothing to improve my lack of optimism toward this upcoming production

But I still have some lingering hope and optimism
no bump

however it's worth noting that at this juncture a no bump is a purely symbolic gesture, as this was the last post bumped on a board that only recieves sporadic activity throughout the day and averages anywhere from 3 to 30 posts per day
>>
Broik - Wed, 01 Feb 2017 15:21:47 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57843 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57839
If we can't put our faith in the integrity of the no bump system, then what can we put our faith in? nbing for solidarity
>>
Lt. Maxwell Burke - Wed, 01 Feb 2017 20:19:26 EST ID:5aCbAqEw No.57846 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57843
belay that order. bumping purely to spite you.... it's just my way.
>>
Chairman Koval - Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:16:33 EST ID:ICE+omcE No.57847 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57839
>pathetic minute long clip of 50% text and pictures of cast members
You DO know what a teaser trailer means, right?
>>
Mordoc - Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:53:22 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.57848 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57847
Yeah but a lot of it wasn't even pictures from this show. There was no substance, even for a teaser.
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Azan - Thu, 02 Feb 2017 10:11:03 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.57849 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYl453VTKB8

Here's a teaser trailer for TNG. It looks like anything Trek related is from the movies (lot of Wrath of Khan).

Here's a famous teaser trailer for 1978 Superman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhfPidk4DvA

Teaser trailers almost by definition eschew showing anything real or of substance from the finished product because they're often made and shown well in advance of any real work being done ON the finished product. That's why it's a "teaser" trailer and not simply a trailer.
>>
Phlox - Thu, 02 Feb 2017 10:44:45 EST ID:MUJ4M6tq No.57850 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57849
Most teasers show at least something to get the hype started.

SW ep IV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvWR3YGfUmw
Warhammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUKsb03Rnf0
SW ep VII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLk59H86ww
>>
Mordoc - Thu, 02 Feb 2017 13:30:45 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.57855 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57849
I mean yeah, but that TNG teaser looks like it actually got people pretty hyped. That was actually pretty cool.

BTW-to date the only teasers for Discovery have been the first one showing the ship and that one from a couple days ago right?
>>
Groundskeeper Boothby - Thu, 02 Feb 2017 15:14:21 EST ID:4t+MA9XW No.57857 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57855
There was an even more insubstantial one before the ship one, that just showed nebulae and shit.
While sure this trailer isn't entirely out of the genre of what is acceptable for a teaser, the bigger picture gripe is that all that they have to show for a show they have ostensibly been working on for almost a year is yet ANOTHER insubstantial teaser trailer.
>>
EMH MARK 2 - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 01:45:04 EST ID:DnsI5ZDb No.58179 Ignore Report Quick Reply
https://youtu.be/Km5qVwZvjm8

tl:dw (I ripped this post from somewhere else)

"Rumors in the video: Non-Trek fan producer is pushing for a visual style even more advanced than the Kelvin-verse, resulting in the most advanced looking Trek series to date... which would clash heavily with its pre-prime-TOS setting. Much revision of scripts/arcs after the original show runner bowed out. Show is no longer in the prime timeline, but embraces a multiverse with the implication that multiple characters played by same actors are actually now the same character, simultaneously (???). Producer mandate for the show to be "sexed up". Toy and other merchandise licensees are upset with the new aesthetic, are concerned that Trek fans will reject the radical shift from the established look and feel of the prime universe. Blowback from licensees so severe that the VFX department was fired in its entirety. Some scripts deemed "unfilmable." Several actors want out. Netflix is unhappy. Show may not see the light of day."

Even if the rumors are false, I'm not terribly excited.
>>
Guinan - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 02:23:29 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58182 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58179
After watching that, I officially have no hope for the new series. Though they may only be rumors, they make a disturbing amount of sense. Why else would the showrunner jump ship from his dream job? The first interview I read from Fuller, it sounded like he was totally into Trek just like we are. Him jumping ship was not a good sign, nor was it being pushed back, and pushed back again.. without him.

I'm not even sure it's going to happen at this point, and I'm starting to hope it doesn't.

If this video is correct, what really gets me is that the producers could do everything they wanted to do if they simply didn't make it a FUCKING PREQUEL. Set it after Nemesis and there's basically no constraints for technology, for shifting the paradigm of the series, etc. Plus, you can have any and all surviving TNG actors reprise their roles, from the major ones to minor side characters, and basically have fun little cameos and shit while at the same time making Trek feel new and interesting and further exploring the future's future.

This is what we all want
>>
Legate Porania - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 03:33:44 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58183 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58179
I wish that Netflix had just gotten it in the first place. At least they would have done their best to please the fans, instead of making it about greed 100% like CBS is trying to do, with their strapping it to a failing product to try and drain the fanbase a little bit.
The Star Trek fanbase is very passionate, but very forgiving. And to see how much hate and frustration they (we) are starting to throw out there towards CBS I think is a telling sign of just how bad the direction is going.
Also, it's just kinda disturbing how seemingly arrogantly stupid the CBS douche (idk his name, but the one who's running the show on Discovery) is, in micromanaging over the people that actually know their shit, and supposedly firing a whole designer crew. It's just really disheartening to see a show with such a real, passionate fanbase that has a genuine love for the show being used in such a way.
>>
T'Les - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 05:24:10 EST ID:NNu0rHAt No.58185 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58183
Amen bro, CBS is bungling this whole endeavor really hard
Agreed though that If Netflix made Discovery, it would probably be pretty great
>>
EMH MARK 2 - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 12:05:58 EST ID:DnsI5ZDb No.58186 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58182
I honestly don't get why there is so much insistence on it being a prequel in the first place. Hell, they wouldn't even have to worry about trying to fit in nuTrek aesthetic if they wanted it that badly. And it's not like anybody is that thirsty for another TOS prequel in the first place.
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 17:28:57 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.58187 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Everything else aside if they retcon Sarek into a transdimensional being I am going to find someone responsible to punch.
>>
Guinan - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 17:39:22 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58188 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58187
We could send them some fanmail if they fuck up

http://www.poopsenders.com/order/

just make it look like a basket of muffins or something.. that is until they open it
>>
Ensign Vorik - Mon, 06 Mar 2017 03:15:13 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58196 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58186
Because they want to piggyback on the culture osmosis that TOS has.
>>
Robin Lefler - Mon, 06 Mar 2017 20:09:04 EST ID:6ICHVbx3 No.58204 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57194

you're kind of a dick for implying michelle yeoh isnt a fantastic choice on her acting and personality alone, before the race matter is even considered. also Star Trek and Starfleet always promoted a progessive, inclusive message, it would be illogical for all captains to be white . . .
>>
Guinan - Mon, 06 Mar 2017 21:22:42 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58207 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58204
Well to be explicitly canon, female captains were supposed to somewhat rare until after Kirk's time, please watch the TOS finale, Turnabout Intruder.

it's mostly a product of its times but this against illustrates why doing another prequel is retarded
>>
Private W Woods - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 01:49:48 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58208 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58207


She was bug fuck crazy though, and no one said that but her, so its dubious.
>>
Sphere Builder - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 08:45:27 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58211 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58204
I think you're reading more into that comment than there is. I had the same thought when I saw that, not because of Yeoh, but because of the name of her ship. A Chinese Captain of a Chinese ship might just be coincidence, but it's something we rarely actually see in Trek. I've read one (shitty) webcomic that suggested Starfleet vessels are crewed with largely one human culture, and receive a name from that culture, but it doesn't hold up in the show.

My complaint is that it might be the exact opposite of progressive and inclusive, for sake of a market share. I'd be positively thrilled, though, if they had a proper Chinese person on the main crew, because one of my other complaints is that the Treks since TOS have grown *less* inclusive, with massive parts of the crew being American. And I was never thrilled about the suggestion that French as a language and culture essentially dies out in TNG, either. That while they make a point of having Uhura speak Swahili in TOS. If diversity means we're all going to be Americans, that's not really diversity, is it?

Of course, I'm from a tiny European country, and am constantly told by Americans that I'm being represented because the dudes from a different culture on the other side of the planet have the same skin colour as me. So I'm kind of sensitive to this issue.
>>
Commander Donatra - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 09:54:50 EST ID:JE8n9rce No.58212 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58211
>I'd be positively thrilled, though, if they had a proper Chinese person on the main crew, because one of my other complaints is that the Treks since TOS have grown *less* inclusive, with massive parts of the crew being American.

There was something bothering me about Voyager's cast and then I realized that every human character is basically American.

>Of course, I'm from a tiny European country, and am constantly told by Americans that I'm being represented because the dudes from a different culture on the other side of the planet have the same skin colour as me. So I'm kind of sensitive to this issue.

Yeah, trust me when I say there are small amount of Americans like me who realize that sort of thinking is bullshit, but sadly it's not going to go away anytime soon. Even the more progressive types buy into it. Ironically, I can really see an episode of Star Trek critiquing that sort of thing if it wasn't done in some shape or form.
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Commander Donatra - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 10:04:09 EST ID:JE8n9rce No.58213 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58212
Like... I dunno a DS9 episode that's basically a Black Panther version of Patterns of Force but O'Brien ends up being kidnapped and Sisko and Worf end up sneaking on the planet to save him because they have dark skin color but then they have a rule about killing off anybody who has light skin and Sisko ends up schooling them.

I guess it'd be pushing it though.
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Sphere Builder - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 11:12:13 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58214 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58212
>>58213
I didn't use to be so sensitive about it, but that's the double-edged sword of identity politics. It trains everyone to think according to those lines, so when I see it now, I think "this is supposed to be offensive according to The Rules, but isn't being treated as such". I can't really turn it off. And when a friend of me makes a point to complain about whitewashing in Hollywood, what am I supposed to do? NOT point out that Hollywood also remakes white European movies with American actors because the idea of a non-English movie with subtitles scares them? Isn't that essentially the same thing as casting white, English-speaking Americans in a movie about historical Egypt? I mean, I certainly feel more represented by Swedish actors in a Swedish film than I do by I-can't-believe-it's-not-American Daniel Craig in an American one.

Anyway, on to Star Trek. One problem that people fail to get with Star Trek is the dichotomy between representation and commentary. Due to Trek's nature, its commentary is largely allegorical, because it presents a future where current day problems have already been solved. When they cast Nichelle Nichols in the 60's, they were doing so in an atmosphere where blacks had just barely gotten equal rights (in the US), but they didn't use her and her character as a vehicle for direct racial commentary. They did so through allegorical aliens, or historical commentators. Same thing in DS9, with Far Beyond the Stars, the Skreea, etc. etc. Or with Worf, as a character torn between worlds and judged by both. And we might have never seen Bashir and Garak kiss, but at least Trek had a bunch of LGBT allegories.

So you can have direct representation in Trek, but not direct commentary. It reminds me of that DS9 episode Melora, or something like that. The one with the girl in the wheelchair, which had some direct commentary on the handicapped. Yeah, not a very good episode. But then there was the episode where O'Brien does hard time, except it's only in his head, and it's a great metaphor for the experience of PTSD, reminiscent of The Forever War (which had tons of gay representation, BTW). I've come to regard The Inner Light as a very good allegory for someone who has lost their homeland, as someone close to me has, and it helped me understand their position. Jadzia Dax was a good metaphor for transgenderism, and I even saw similarities between her and someone who later came out as transgender. Now when I watch DS9, I suddenly notice all this typical trans talk that I never noticed before, even when it's obvious stuff like "you used to be a man". Because it's presented as a science fiction thing, you just take it in stride, but it doesn't lessen the impact of the issues being discussed. And I wonder if the writers ever noticed themselves, because they didn't when they made Data an accidental allegory for autism, or Worf one for second generation immigrants.

I think that's the power of science fiction: To strip away the prejudices we have with an issue close to us, in order to bare the essential operant qualities of it. Apparently even without realizing it, when people focus on the philsophical implications before they even realize there are real world applications for them, such as with "the man who has no emotions".

I think the VOY episode Nemesis kind of deals with my issue. We, the audience, assuming that these are the good guys because they look like us. The fact that Chakotay is taken in by them, despite being an outsider to the conflict who should remain neutral. And there's their weird cult-speak, which kind of forces an American audience to take a different view to these very "human" aliens. It also really worked with Chakotay as a main character, which is kind of rare. I don't know, I can't really, completely articulate it. I thought the episode was kind of goofy when I first saw it, but grew to really like it over the years. It's a powerful episode about identity and making assumptions about it. Something about this issue would have to go according to those lines.
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DaiMon Bractor - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 17:45:22 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58216 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58214
While I will agree that in terms of casting the principle characters the shows opt more for merely representing different groups and issues rather than commenting directly on them, they do this a ton in one off episodes. Riker's genderless fuckbuddy, the Let That Be Your Last Battlefield half-whites/half-blacks, Malon pollution poo-poo headsm Harry Kim getting space AIDS...they're all pretty much on the nose, consensus-opinion-reinforcing commentaries on major social issues of their time.

I don't really see Trek as shying away from direct commentary (ok, they totally do pussy out a lot of the time on being as hard as they could be on it) but more of just using the sci-fi aspect as a tool to get away with making their very on-the-nose commentaries SEEM less direct, or allow them to claim 'lol they're just freaaaky aliens!' when their pointed statements would rub people the wrong way.
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Guinan - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 23:00:54 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58217 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58216
Here's the thing though, all those examples suck ass.

Seriosuly.

Trek is at its very best when it is subtle about these kind of things. Honestly, somehow I never really noticed the men in skirts in early TNG. I'd watched it so much it just didn't even register. Like, wtf? There's dudes in regulation uniform miniskirts just strolling around and shit... it's like that gorilla jumping through the basketball game, if you ain't looking for crewman Johnson jiibblies to be peeking through the lower decks you don't even see it, I mean really if it's a man's skirt it has to at least go to the knees, give the poor bastard at least the illusion of having a big dick. I mean at that point, maybe the neck bugs were doing the starfleet uniforms or some shit cause I feel like if you're gonna have a ship with children and with skirtmen there might be issues, since the kid's got a different perspective and all.. I mean Gene either didn't think about the logistics of this one or he was secretly a huge pedophile.. and after being transformed myself into a child in "Rascals" I'm seriously starting to wonder... well shit at least I got some sickass bed jumping in, that shit was choice, you don't even know how good it feels to cut your physical mass in half but keep the same relative strength, I ain't felt that good for four hunnit and twenty GAT DAMN SOLAR YEARS

Anyways I digress

My point is in TOS, trek was pushing boundries and making people think from a philosophical point of view

TNG and DS9 followed suit

VOY and ENT I don't really know what the fuck they were doing

But then by the time Discovery comes along I'm starting too see sort of a blatant pandering, like Hillary Clinton's mariachi band playing for her before she used the gringo prononuication of AH BWAY LOW in her speech. Is that what trek has become?!

Next thing we know, Malfoy's dad from Harry Potter will be the next captain.

No really I'm serious, Jason Issacs will play Captain Lorca of the Discovery

I don't know how feel bout this one tbh fam
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Guinan - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 23:12:03 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58219 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58214
This post was so good and so in sync with how I feel that I wondered for a moment if I wasn't still in the Nexus, this reality being some wildly complex illusion or somesuch
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Sarah Sisko - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 10:37:09 EST ID:xuBcumf2 No.58228 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58214
first off Star Trek was filmed by an American studio. As far as I know Stewart was the only non American on TNG. But that's hardly the issue, and Earth is at the point where it didn't really matter where you where from just where you called home.

Secondly while this falls under historical commentators, Abe Lincoln str8 called Uhura a jolly african-american and shes all like what ever dude. Where as sisko had a bitch fit over the vegas program and his black girl friend told him to shut the fuck up and go have fun. Both times it was stated, look thats how it was but this is how it is now. I think that message is the most important to take out of all that. Instead ur getting butt blasted about not enough diversity in star trek when it already fits that bill.

And yeah you can't have DIRECT commentary because trek is about living in a society that is beyond that trivial bullshit. It would be as out of place as Sisko being a champion of black rights when he lives in a society where black rights aren't even an issue. Having African masks is one thing, crying about racism in a holodeck program that exhibited zero racism was just stupid.
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Latha Mabrin - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 16:44:26 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58229 Ignore Report Quick Reply
That "Actors who played diffrent characters are now the same" makes me think


Does that mean there's 50 versions of Weyoun, or Brunt running about?
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Corporal F Hawkins - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 18:18:30 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58231 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58217
>>Here's the thing though, all those examples suck ass.
My point wasn't that they were good, but that Trek's social commentary isn't always subtle. Sometimes it's very blatant.

>>58228
Marina Sirtis and Colm Meany are both from the UK also.
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Jonathan Archer - Thu, 09 Mar 2017 07:58:34 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58241 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58216
>>58231
I think you failed to get what I mean. Direct commentary means putting the situation as is into Trek. With the example of gay people, people have been pressuring Trek to put in gay characters for a while, now. And the creators wanted it, but the producers didn't. But that didn't stop Trek from doing multiple allegorical episodes about LGBT repression, and even a character (Dax, as I've mentioned) who's basically transgender by any other name.

What I'm also saying is that people have pre-established positions, stereotypes, etc. in the situations we already have. So when you have your direct transgender on Trek, your conservative viewer will default to whatever Tumblr stereotype he has and project that onto the character. When you say "this girl has a slug inside her that used to be inside a dude so she acts like a dude half the time", those prejudices get left by the wayside, because suspension of disbelief forces people to accept the logic of the show, rather than real life logic.

Also, Colm Meany is from Ireland, and would probably glass you for saying he's from the UK.

>>58219
Thanks, Guinan.

>>58228
You're mixing my two points up into some big retarded stew. And when I talk about representation, I'm talking about international representation, not just of American black people. A show about Earth getting together and solving our collective problems looks a little... weird when everyone is American or honorary-American British.

And what you're failing to get about Sisko is that he only became butthurt about racial issues after he had gone through a series of hallucinations where he was a black science fiction writer in the 50's. It's not just dumped in there because someone wanted to make a point. It's informed by the character's experiences.
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Robin Lefler - Sat, 11 Mar 2017 23:51:03 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.58267 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>it's literally called STD
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I.G. Tarah - Sun, 12 Mar 2017 21:00:23 EST ID:JE8n9rce No.58277 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58267
To be fair, we shorten Voyager to VOY or VGR, not STV. So Discovery would be DIS or something.

It is amusing nonetheless.
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Timothy Lang - Sun, 12 Mar 2017 21:05:23 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58278 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I think DSC would probably look the best.
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Hadley - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:26:04 EST ID:0JMozmZI No.58369 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Klingon Sarcophagus Ship

What the fuck is going on dudes.
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Lt. Ro Laren - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:26:56 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.58371 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58369
pretty sure someone just photoshopped a mosque into a ship shape

pic related, I'm pretty sure they used this actual ceiling in that ship
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Azan - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:12:48 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58373 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58371

holy shit this is fucking outrageous.
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Legate Porania - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:48:29 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58378 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58373
You guys obviously haven't seen the new Klingon costumes...
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Azan - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:34:26 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58379 Ignore Report Quick Reply
when STD came out there was an army of trolls online stating that it was great and that purists were just butthurt fans.

my point is that I am already noticing that everywhere I turn I find some nob telling me that the fandom of star trek is the problem, not the idiot producers making shit products....
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Species 8472 - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:39:23 EST ID:YX6hX83Z No.58380 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Ah fuck...I can't believe they've done this.
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KC Hunter - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:08:05 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.58381 Ignore Report Quick Reply
this all seems to dumb to be true
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Karyn Archer - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:10:31 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58382 Ignore Report Quick Reply
wtf how difficult is it to not shit all over everything the series has done before?
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Guinan - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 00:27:08 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58385 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58378
>>58378
>>58378
>>58369
>>58369

I've seen all I need to see to know that this is going to be terrible. I'm not watching this shit.
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Spot - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 03:21:32 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58386 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It seems like everyone but CBS can see this. All the partners are losing their shit over this. JJTrek had zero merch and side sales, and everyone can see this is going to be worse.
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Karyn Archer - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 03:52:10 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58387 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58386
Yup, nobody is buying merch because JJ has gone full blockbuster. No lasting value besides the first time you see it in theaters. Big special effects, but no substance.
And it looks like DSC is trying to distance itself from JJ Trek, but not in a way that would even get them more fans. Just by being completely dumb?
Idk, I can't fathom what is going through the minds of the producers of this show because from my perspective it is 100% stupid and looks to be a failed investment.
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Curzon Dax - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 03:57:12 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58388 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58386
You know who is really pissed? Netflix. They basically paid for the whole show with the international distribution rights, and now that it's not even really happening? PISSED.
Best case scenario? They pull their money, which forces CBS to default on the production, and Netflix buys it from them and produces the show, making it out of pure win
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Karyn Archer - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 04:05:46 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58389 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58388
Yeah that would surely be the best solution, but CBS seems very intent on pushing their shit streaming service.
I just wish Netflix would have thought to reboot trek before CBS got their dirty hands on it.
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Spot - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 04:17:40 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58390 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58388
Netflix ain't stupid. That contract likely has some serious penalties on defaultment.
Given how CBS's upper command doesn't care for Sci-Fi, and this production is pulling the network down with it, they may just handover Rights to Star Trek to Netflix to shut them up and wash their hands of it, Ala Fox giving up movie rights back to Marval.
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Captain Kargan - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 04:21:53 EST ID:u12rvwZE No.58391 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58385
ghuy'. Klingon culture is besmirched by these petaQ.
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Harry Kim - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 06:12:45 EST ID:X3s+WNvl No.58392 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This shit is what happens when it's money of principles.

Star Trek always used to be about something, that is what made it amazing. Now, it's about fucking nothing.

It's a fucking disgrace that something so rich in creative, scientific, philosophical, ethical, metaphysical etc. etc. substance is being raped for monetary gain. This shit isn't Star Trek
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Karyn Archer - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 06:42:57 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58393 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58390
So, if that were to happen, would Netflix just throw the whole thing in the trash and start over? At that point that would be doubling down right? Or do you think they would just cut their losses?
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Lt. Cmdr. Argyle - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:13:11 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58394 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I am holding out hope that this is all really amazing, really really well done viral marketing and all of this garbage has LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO with the new show at all, which proves to be well written and has the right look and feel.

Even Fuller leaving in a huff could have been part of the viral marketing...

*cries*
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Weyoun 7 - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:27:58 EST ID:3bunwxei No.58395 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58369
I... actually like this design. It's not very Star Trek, yeah, but it could work as a one-off design as some abandoned ship from an ancient civilization floating in space or on an planet for an episode or something. But it sure as hell isn't Klingon. When I think of Klingons, church is the last thing on my mind.
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Curzon Dax - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 15:07:34 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58396 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58393
Unfortunately, if it's anything like the standard legal framework around a Hollywood show, if they call it Star Trek: Discovery and use any of the pre-production materials, all of the attached actors contracts might still apply and could sue if their contractual obligations aren't met. Most likely they would just have to keep whatever has already been shot and then change course with it as they saw fit, keeping the same cast and theme but changing the plot and tone or whatever.

Maybe they would just try to do it their own way, maybe they would wrap up the 'Discovery' story line as like a one season mini-series and start a new production, who knows? Any outcome would be better than CBS driving it into the ground.
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Icheb - Wed, 22 Mar 2017 22:55:22 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58397 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58396
Yeah any outcome would be better but I feel like the most likely outcome is that CBS will use it for one season then drop it because it sucks, and Netflix will be pissed.
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Vic Fontaine - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 02:22:01 EST ID:PO/IoaSa No.58399 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58369
>>58371

I didn't believe you. Now I do.
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Major J Hayes - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 05:50:24 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58401 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58399
For what purpose
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Icheb - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 06:12:33 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58402 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58399
vic come back to the tube
Also, that just seems really lazy and weird that they would choose that specifically. Hopefully it's just because it looks really cool. Though it would be kinda funny if they equated muslims to klingons somehow.
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Major J Hayes - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:49:28 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58404 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58402
Oh fucking christ, I bet you hit the nail on the head.
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Cmdr. Erika Benteen - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:29:49 EST ID:Mw2ViAbq No.58405 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58402

>muslims to klingons somehow.

oh dear god please no.
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Zefram Cochrane - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 12:22:41 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.58406 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58402
Truck Factor 5!
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Former Gul Rusot - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 12:51:55 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58407 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58379
The same thing happened with numerous other reboots. I consider it part of the reboot disease. And I'm convinced at least some of them are professional trolls. It seems like it's part of a legit marketing strategy. That's the only thing that explains how consistent this response is. Surely there aren't people this diehard supportive, yet at the same time so disinterested in the product and its history for EVERY property? And in roughly the same numbers? With the new Ghostbusters you also had these people explaining from on high that if you didn't think queef jokes could carry a film, you OBVIOUSLY just didn't get the original Ghostbusters.

It's basically a way to pre-empt fan backlash. And offensive countermeasure. Not just towards us, but towards anyone who would listen to us as people who know their stuff. These are people who are still going by very oldschool metrics for success. When they have a good opening weekend, they have won. So they bank on obfuscation tactics.

>>58405
Well, I've been equating Worf to a second generation immigrant for a while, now. And the Klingons are a perfect fit for Muslims, really. They're all brown, they worship a violent warrior-prophet who's upheld as the example of all that is man, they have an external system of honour which is paramount to their culture, and they glorify war against their enemies. Whether you want it or not, Klingons already are a lot like Muslims, at least in broad strokes.

But when they start consciously treating Klingons as a direct Muslims analogy, you'll probably find that Klingons will completely lose their edge, and any chance of making anything decent out of them will go out of the window. Though, give the Evil designs and costumes we've seen in this thread, I don't think you have to worry about them being anything other than Generic Alien Enemy #823482349
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Admiral Hayes - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:44:51 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58410 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58407
No no please no. Klingons aren't muslims. I mean with those kinds of broad strokes you could equate a lot of the militaristic cultures in Trek to (a politicized, paranoid caricature of) muslims. Surely the Dominion are a better analogy?

The Klingons when they were basically character-less Russia analogues in TOS were ok. But the really genuine Klingon culture that people care about from the later films/TNG era is, if anything, based on a mixture of Bushido-chivalry and Viking-chivalry. It's all about personal honor and glory in combat -- Klingons are famously anti-supernatural, they don't care about their corpses, they slew all their gods, and their afterlife is just going to another big battle. They are not fanatically devoted to a supernatural being or imposing a dogma on the whole galaxy; they are only devoted to increasing their personal honor and that of the empire, and mostly could care less if their conquered peoples emulate their methods or not.

Klingons are space samurai/vikings. That's the character that has been established for them. I would even buy Cardassians going back to their religious roots and becoming 'jihadis' before I would buy it of the Klingons.
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Former Gul Rusot - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:30:47 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58414 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58410
Point is, Klingons are Klingons. They have aspects that resonate with several Earth cultures, and that's how they are used in storytelling. That's what I'm getting at with the latter half of the comment: once you start pegging something in science fiction as an analogue of one thing, and only one thing, you will lose the complexity that makes science fiction worthwhile in the first place. If they're just Muslims (or vikings, or samurai) in space, why even bother? Just make your series about Muslim Viking Samurai.

But it's undeniable that Klingons share a lot of particulars with Islamic culture. In broad strokes, yes, because Islamic culture itself is infinitely diverse, as any good Vulcan would point out. But stuff like Kahless and their honour culture fit Islam perfectly.
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Turanj - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:52:17 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58418 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58414
I am kind of baffled by your response. Things in science fiction have been used as analogues of real-world things, back to the origin of science fiction. That doesn't take away it's complexity, that's where its complexity comes from, because it can be used as a mirror on the real world. They aren't 'just' the thing in question, it's not a parody or satire where the names have merely been changed; sci-fi shows us aspects that may be hidden to us by removing the things they analogize from their native contexts. So even if a race is as simple as say space vikings, they still allow us to see something about vikings we couldn't see otherwise, and of course rarely are there ever such one to one comparisons. However, I will say that there are almost no new ideas under the sun, and pretty much any speculative fiction race or culture you can name I can point to real world cultures they are amalgamations of.

Analyzing historical parallelisms between Trek cultures and real world ones is a past-time as old as the fandom itself. So I'm reducing Klingons by saying they're more like x & y culture than z culture, but it's undeniable that Klingons are like z? If you use broad enough strokes to equate something with z (especially when you've already stated the thing you're equating it with is infinitely diverse, which means your stroke could effectively cover everything whatsoever) then of course it will be undeniable, but doesn't that miss the point of making comparisons entirely?

On the subject of better analogues of muslims in Trek: the Cardassians. I should have belabored this point more in my last post, but I think it's pretty clear that the Cardassians are meant to represent not Islamic terrorism but the rising secular Arabic powers as they appeared on the global geopolitical stage in the early '90s (Cardassians are a product of the Gulf War, psychologically, is what I'm saying.)

Though they may function as stand-ins for Iraq, with Bajor as Kuwait, probably the pair fit ideologically more with Palestine and Israel respectively.
You could even make a parallelism between an Arabic state like Syria making a deal to regain control with Russia is an awful lot like Cardassia joining the Dominion to be able to crush the Maquis and take on the Federation, with Dukat as Assad, but anyway...

All this to say that if you absolutely, desperately need to have muslims in space in your Trek show, there are already many better alternatives within the canon than wrecking Klingons.
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Helena Rozhenko - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:16:30 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58421 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58418
>but I think it's pretty clear that the Cardassians are meant to represent not Islamic terrorism but the rising secular Arabic powers as they appeared on the global geopolitical stage in the early '90s

They are? I always felt they were more analogs for the totalitarian 3rd world banana republics that are always starting things, AKA North Korea.
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Hikaru Sulu - Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:33:55 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58422 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58418

>but I think it's pretty clear that the Cardassians are meant to represent not Islamic terrorism but the rising secular Arabic powers as they appeared on the global geopolitical stage in the early '90s

No.

This is fucking retarded.
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Turanj - Fri, 24 Mar 2017 01:05:00 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58423 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58421
You could make a case for that too. I would expand on the points, but it's obviously making Sulu upset, so who cares? My point is really just that this doesn't belong in the already direly infected STD.
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Michael Sullivan - Fri, 24 Mar 2017 05:53:02 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58428 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58418
Baffled, you say? Good sirs, fetch the fainting couch!

No, I think you're not getting what I'm getting at. There are very few direct analogies in Trek. Instead, aliens and characters tend to represent cultural traits that might be more common in some than in others. For instance, Bajorans were never meant to directly correspond to Jews or Bosnians, or whatever other oppressed group got stuffed into concentration camps at some point. They're supposed to represent all those groups. And in DS9, those groups after reconciliation.

Similarly the Cardassians represent an authoritarian society, not specifically secular Arabic powers. But because secular Arabic powers are also authoritarian as fuck, there's a lot of overlap

We're already deeply into DS9. Consider the Skreeans. Or that episode where an Admiral conspires to take over the Federation through stepping up "security measures". Don't those seem like all the world to be a commentary on the refugee crisis and the Patriot Act? Except both episodes were made well before either of those things happened. Because they're not direct analogies, but they're so close to what actually happened that they seem almost prophetic in hindsight.
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Spot - Fri, 24 Mar 2017 06:08:10 EST ID:X3s+WNvl No.58429 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58421
I always viewed them as a meld between Nazi Germany and early 20th century Turkey (with both Ottoman and secular elements)
>>
Michael Eddington - Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:15:23 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.58434 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58428
the dandruff monsters just left dandruff around they didn't rape everybody
>>
Turanj - Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:00:47 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58428
>>No, I think you're not getting what I'm getting at.
Hmm, ok...
>>They're supposed to represent all those groups.
Nope, I definitely know that. Maybe you just thought that when I said 'they represent' I mean 'can only represent specifically this as a direct one-to-one correlation of' which no, of course is not what I mean.

You could describe the races of Star Trek as being the aspects of the psyche, or the seven deadly sins, or the members of the Beatles. Anything is possible in critical interpretation, so I think you're just getting bent out of shape for no reason by taking a comparison which you admit is reasonable and pretending I'm making an absolute claim about it.
>>
Hikaru Sulu - Fri, 24 Mar 2017 18:38:17 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58437

>or the members of the Beatles

Federation is Paul. Vulcans are George. John is the Traveller. Ringo is Rikers beard.
>>
Katogh - Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:15:01 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58449 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58437
>getting bent out of shape

Look mate, you're the one getting your panties in a twist because I see similarities between Klingon and Islamic culture. You're the one who's been telling me that it's absolutely impossible for there to be a connection between the two. So YES, you have been making absolute claims. And you're now also the one posting butthurt reaction images.

Maybe smoke a bowl or something.
>>
Gralik Durr - Sat, 25 Mar 2017 09:16:03 EST ID:xuBcumf2 No.58450 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58449
dude the broke nose bajorans are the space Muslims. Klingons are sengoku era japan, or space mexicans.
>>
Guinan - Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:16:30 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58451 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58434
>Defending Dandruffugees

Get the fuck out.
>>
Rekelen - Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:48:57 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58452 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58449

>The Klingons are like the Muslims

^this is the claim being made, without any evidence except conjecture and your loose ramblings.

The klingons are nothing like muslims unless you are a fucking racist and just see brown people.
>>
Guinan - Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:54:40 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58453 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58452
Well I think the idea arose because a tile mosaic from an Islamic Mosque was being projected onto a model called 'Klingon Funeral Ship' but I'm just going off of memory since I don't want to scroll up and relive the horror of seeing the 'new klingons' again

From way that a lot of people involved in Discovery have been talking in social media and interviews, it seems like a realistic fear to worry that Discovery could trample all the most established and fleshed out alien race by rewriting them into an allegory for Islam. No, there isn't evidence, but it's not a bad educated guess, in fact if we make it through the pilot with even a slight amount of philosophy and little to no politically-polarized modern geopolitical virtue signalling loose semi-allegories I might consider watching the show in spite of the fact it's another worthless prequel. It's fine if they comment on current events as long as they tackle it philosophically and do so in a way that doesn't make it blatant.. doing so means that when you watch it 10 years from now it looks like the script was written by some retarded child.
>>
Private E Hamboyan - Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:16:00 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58454 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58449
>>I mean with those kinds of broad strokes you could equate a lot of the militaristic cultures in Trek to (a politicized, paranoid caricature of) muslims.
Yup, that's the same thing as saying it's impossible. I'm not saying it's impossible to compare anything to anything. Notice two posts above this one I said that you could compare Trek races to the Beatles. To reiterate, it is possible to compare anything to any other thing. Moreover, it's clearly what you've done, and I've just laid out reasons why I think it makes less sense than other interpretations, would be a terrible direction for the franchise and STD, and is frankly stupid.

Your argument rests on the claim that I am making an absolute claim, saying that your connection is impossible or that you shouldn't be allowed to talk about it. Me saying such a thing is nowhere to be found, so the 'argument' is really you just screaming that Klingons are Muslims, and other people disagreeing, and then you getting mad at them for disagreeing. Not very substantive.

You wanna talk about how Klingons are muslims? Fine. But every Trekkie is going to have an opinion about that and is going to talk to you about it if you post that idea on a Trek board. If I made a post about how the Borg queen was really the mother of Justin Trudeau, shouldn't I expect people to make statements about how much water my fan theory holds?

nb because this thread is almost more garbage than STD itself now.
>>
Mobara - Sun, 26 Mar 2017 09:58:28 EST ID:ITrneraD No.58467 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58453

>even a slight amount of philosophy and little to no politically-polarized modern geopolitical virtue signalling

Daily reminder that every time Kirk finds a balanced, perfect society, he destroys it and makes them fend for themselves and grow.

I am eager to see how these nimnulls apply the Prime Directive to the industrialization of Islamic states. That will either wreck the entirety of the philosophy of the show or it will alienate the entirety of the liberal/progressive audience.
>>
Admiral Cartwright - Mon, 27 Mar 2017 06:47:14 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58490 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58454
Don't go complaining that a thread is garbage when you're the guy who made it garbage with your buttmad behaviour, hombre.
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Admiral Cartwright - Mon, 27 Mar 2017 07:01:39 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58491 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58454
To reiterate: I said there were some similarities between Klingon and Islamic culture, mostly the honour culture and the worshipping of a mortal prophet. That's all. Your argument is that I'm saying they're a one for one fit, which I didn't. You did so in a way I found most irksome, and your entire argument seem to be saying I'm mad about your "disagreeing", when you are actually putting words in my mouth and behaving like an ass.

Maybe you're offended or something? Either way, I don't see the worth in arguing with you any further. The above point stands, though.

nb because double post.

Also, stop using "you mad" as an argument when you put this much vitriol in your posts. Christ.
>>
Guinan - Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:25:25 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58509 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58490
Most threads convert to garbage after an average of 4.2 months. It's a natural process, as the residue from shitposting begins too build up it causes a cascade reaction.
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Jimmy - Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:12:34 EST ID:SHq00Qum No.58561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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i just realized the acronym for the show is STD
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Wesley Crusher - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 16:28:46 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58584 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Rainn WIlson casted to play Mudd in DSC.
http://www.startrek.com/article/rainn-wilson-his-name-is-mudd-on-discovery
>>
Corporal F Hawkins - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 16:40:33 EST ID:Mw2ViAbq No.58585 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58584


>Mudd

Fucking why.
>>
Lt. Ro Laren - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:12:10 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58586 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58585
Got to squeeze every last drop from the TOS cultural osmosis that we can, because no one is watching this shit on its merits.
>>
Captain Solok - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:20:30 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58587 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58584
>>Mudd
DUDE WHAT? I'm sorry this shit is just completely going off the fucking rails. Who is telling them to do dumb stuff like this? I'm pretty sure Mudd is the most unequivocally hated recurring villain in all of Trek, and he's not even a good one, he's just a lazy old perv really.

Do they think this well get old people to like it? How could they know enough to know that Mudd exists without knowing that nobody likes him?
Do they think this will draw in new people? Unless you're a diehard Trekkie, you don't even have a clue who he is.

This is getting depressing.
>>
Data - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 19:25:00 EST ID:aGXOTlyw No.58588 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58587
I liked Mudd, but I wouldn't watch just for him
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Major J Hayes - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 20:34:25 EST ID:3bunwxei No.58590 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58589
I actually liked I, Mudd. I don't remember anything about Mudd's Women though I could've sworn I watched it before.

But uh... yeah. I don't get how this could be remotely news-worthy. Mudd isn't even that memorable of a character in the long run, even among the more hardcore trekkies. Then again I don't keep up with that sort of thing. In short I don't know what these fools are doing with this show. I just want my post-Nemesis show fuck.
>>
Prinadora - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 21:21:52 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.58591 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58589
>Those two episodes are almost unwatchable
yeah but the third one, Mudd's Passion was pretty alright
>>
Tora Ziyal - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 23:06:54 EST ID:SY0gC1Wn No.58592 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58590
>post-Nemesis show
Sweet Christ I want this so bad.
>>
Prinadora - Fri, 31 Mar 2017 23:26:50 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.58593 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58592
it's what we all always wanted
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Kiaphet Amman'sor - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 03:05:08 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58594 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58592
No one wanted all these retcons and reboots. Star Trek is explicitly about looking to the future. Wallowing in Pre and TOS nostalgia is completely counter to the message.
>>
Prinadora - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 12:21:48 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58597 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58594

I agree.

Western culture is obsessed with re-writing its past to be more inclusive and squishy to fit the worldview it was raised in this generation (Barney the Purple Dinosaur).

Instead of writing new stories we are re-writing the old ones to exorcise what we now view as sins of various *isms.
>>
Prinadora - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 12:31:37 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58598 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58594
You really want more "looking into the future" after VOY though? Really heady sci-fi can get straight up dumb, and they were clearly running out of ideas for races and conflicts. I would love to see a new generation of Starfleet a la TNG, maybe 50-100 years after VOY, but I can imagine too many ways that it could get away from them and be plain awful. I guess they'd have to set it mostly in the Beta Quadrant to generate new alien races. Or do the Klingons own like, all of it?
>>
Prinadora - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 13:03:35 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58599 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58598

>generate new alien races

I love Star Trek and I will watch it forever, but it is fucked from the get-go. The concept is flawed. Aliens that looks just like cheap ass actors with shitty make up won't work anymore, and the whole fucking show relies on it.

Take the J out of the fucking galaxy and meet some REAL fucking aliens ffs.
>>
Prinadora - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 13:41:12 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58600 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58599
maybe they should return to TOS style and just make every alien basically a human. do another chemical accident to make the klingons look like they did in Tribbles again.
>>
M'Ress - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 15:34:13 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58602 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58598
>>You really want more "looking into the future" after VOY though?
Yes. That's the most fundamental purpose of both Trek and sci-fi. If we're not doing that, then we might as well be watching Gunsmoke or Law & Order.

>>Really heady sci-fi can get straight up dumb
Actually there hasn't been any really heady sci-fi for decades because all entertainment keeps getting dumbed more and more down to be palatable to what the average viewer can understand. Sci-fi and Trek are specifically for a more intellectual audience who can get their more difficult premises. The only people who think heady sci-fi is dumb are people who are too dumb to understand it. Wait...

>>clearly running out of ideas for races and conflicts
See, the fact that you think Star Trek is about coming up with random new people just specifically to have conflict with them is proof positive of how much media in the biggest sense, sci-fi in general, and Trek specifically has degenerated. Trek is about exploring deeper unknowns than what kind of ridges people have on their heads, or coming up with new window-dressings for the same tired war stories. Trek can and has offered genuinely new narrative concepts that are no where else to be found. Trek's wealth is in seeking out those entirely new narrative devices, not constantly retreading the same conflicts and species with new veneers. Going back and doing reboot after reboot is going to give you just that.

>>set it mostly in the Beta Quadrant for new alien races
Remember how the Equinox followed basically the exact same path as Voyager, but encountered none of the same species? The idea that we need new quadrants to have new species was really just something they were smoking in the mid-90s, the fact is that (and we even know this from something Wesley says) that most of even the alpha quadrant is still unexplored. There are plenty of places to have new things come from without needing to go anywhere.

So when you say you don't want future looking Star Trek, I wonder what does that even refer to? That's like saying you want sugar-free sugar.
>>
Prinadora - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 18:40:56 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58607 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58602
That was... a ton of shit that I didn't mean. Implying that I think Trek is just about differentiating between races' ridges is especially reductive, but maybe I wasn't clear in my point. I want Trek to look into the future, of course, I'm simply frightened at how its exploration of moral dilemma will be compromised by trying to reach out to modern audiences, with modern CGI, and modern political allegories. Doing things set in prequel timelines, or just around the same time as previous Treks, limits that expansive quality, but it's a whole lot harder to screw up because the ideas are simpler.

The dumbest moments of VOY are borne out of attempts to do something big but failing. Either the ethereal idea they want to explore is mishandled or dumb things are inserted for the sake of action. At their worst ENT and JJ Trek are pandering and maybe lack the frontier enthusiasm of Star Trek, but VOY at its worst is unbearably ill-conceived. Episodes like "Threshold" happened because either no one in the writer's room was told "no," or someone in the writer's room said "Well, we don't have anything better." To me that's more unforgivable than being compromised by studio meddling wanting you to bring in a new audience, telling you to de-Trek your product. That's selling out, and that's bastardizing, but it's better than lazy and inconsistent. Since the last example we have of future-minded Star Trek ruffles my feathers so much, I am reticent to welcome another attempt. But I think we all agree that if I could make a deal with the devil to make /absolutely sure/ it's done right then I totally would.

If they ever tried it I would tune in, but we already have enough bad Trek. I'd rather then just stop than give me more.
>>
Prinadora - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 18:51:36 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58608 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58607
Amendment: at its worst (Into Darkness) JJ Trek is also lazy and inconsistent. But I remember seeing that one and thinking "You know what, I could go the rest of my life without more of this." Nb
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Guinan - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 19:00:20 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58609 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I just want to remind you all of something..

If we ever get a post Nemesis show, it would be about the Federation expanding to a GALACTIC scale.

Why? It's quite simply really. In TNG and DS9, we see the limits of subspace communication. At the far ends of the federation, it sometimes takes hours to get a response from a sent transmission, and that's at warp 9.99999999

We know that ships with even moderate warp engines can travel huge galactic distances in a few years, so what is really limiting the size of the federation? Two things, travel speed and communication speed.

Voyager making contact with Jupiter station across the whole fucking Galaxy instantaneously is a MASSIVE technological breakthrough. And the Borg technology that Voyager stole as well as the experiments with transwarp using the Delta Flyer may provide Starfleet with the means for future Riker to order someone to set the ship for Warp14 with his three nacelled super Galaxy class ship. Voyager gives the means and DS9 gives the motive.. after the Dominion War only Starfleet, the Romulans Empire, and possibly the Breen (of the combatants) were not signifigantly weakened by the war. If Romulus is really destroyed by a catastrophic Gama Ray Burst Supernova as depicted in shitty nuTrek, that leaves the Federation in a position to expand as they have no geopolitical competition aside from a reclusive race that is a relatively minor power on its own. Let's be real, even in alternate universes stars only have a finite lifetime. It's unlikely that there is a reality where this Supernova doesn't occur within at least a few decades of it occuring in the JarJar Abrams timeline. After all, in the TNG finale, the Klingons had subjugated much of Romulan space, an unlikely event considering how weakened the Klingons were and how the Romulans emerged mostly unscathed.. unless of course you consider the possibility of an unexpected natural disaster.

The Next Next Generation could be amazing.

>Martok rules the Klingon Empire, Worf is no longer an outcast
>Rom is Nagus of the Ferengi Alliance and is making cultural changes that could allow for federation membership
>Garak is running a very devastated Cardassia that may also vie to join the Federation
>You better believe that after all her time spent with the Emissary, her personal contact with the Prophets and her role in saving Bajor, Kira will eventually become Kai
>There are still about 98 missing changelings out there if she and DrMora decided to try to find them and build a new link on Bajor
>I believe there are also somewhere between 3-5 missing orbs as well
>Odo is with his people and his experiences will reshape the founders. Meanwhile, the Dominions defeat will likely cause a wave of revolutions on previously suppressed Dominion worlds.
>The Borg are still out there.. and remember that they are closer to the Dominion than the Federation
>Neelix can help arrange the foundation of Federation trade and diplomacy with the Delta Quadrant

There's serious potential for a show to pick up around the All Good Things era and be cool as fuck.. filled with old cameos whenever there's an excuse to throw one in, filled with the prepopulated areas of space we've already explored plus all the rest of the Galaxy. A Galaxy is a huge fucking place. There's a lot of stories to tell if the Federation starts going pangalactic.

This is the kinda shit WE want to see, right guys?!
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Lt. Cmdr. Dexter Remmick - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 19:45:37 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58610 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58609
That pic is awesomel ol
>>
Subcommander Velal - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 00:29:31 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.58611 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58609
Old Riker is just like "build me a fucking Replica of the Enterprise D and strap a big fuck me up phaser on the bottom of the hull"
>>
Tekeny Ghemor - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 06:09:21 EST ID:NQYwnkki No.58612 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58609
but if you were travelling at warp 10 you would be able to travel anywhere and be in every part of the universe simultaneously.
There is no warp past warp 10,,,its just teleportation at that point.
>>
Lorian - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 11:44:49 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58613 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58612

This is not at all canon.

Canon is that at warp 10 you turn into a lizard and fuck your captain.
>>
DaiMon Tarr - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 12:03:21 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58614 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58613
or your captain fucks you. did they confirm in Threshold that Tom was still the male? what if when they turned into lizards they also changed sex?
>>
Legate Kell - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 18:08:30 EST ID:Ju4jkf7E No.58617 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58613
The teleportation and being everywhere was a side effect of the bit where you throw your tongue at the EMH and have hot lizard sex if I remember right.

Except in all the good things where they do warp 12 or something. Maybe they got an engineer whose speciality isn't "making shit work but not being as good as O'Brien at it" but "cutting edge tech" on it. Someone like Geordi could probably work around the side effects with a 2 day dead line and a well placed B Plot with Crusher going on HRT or something to give him the inspiration he needs.
>>
Kai Opaka - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 23:16:22 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58637 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Some blogger online is saying the central plot point is the Treaty of Armens, first mentioned in the Sheliak episode of TNG.
>>
Guinan - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 23:38:55 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58638 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58637
Sheliak Corporate, the Silicon Based Blanket people

Could be interesting if there wasn't a 99.9999% chance of them being shittily computer animated if true
>>
Lt. Joseph Carey - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 10:21:39 EST ID:ZNB0CS1E No.58639 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58613
How is an episode of VOY not canon?
>>
Kai Opaka - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 10:47:02 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58640 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58639

I think you misunderstand. Voyager IS canon, hence warp 10 turns you into a lizard.
>>
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:05:52 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.58641 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58640
Ughhhh I don't like being reminded of this.

I personally have a hard time as accepting anything that happened before Seven of Nine joining the ship as canon. I mean, I have a hard time accepting any of the Borg stuff, the Hirogen, or the series finale as canon but there is almost nothing of value in the early seasons of that show.
>>
DaiMon Birta - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:27:13 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.58645 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58641
The Hirogen are a high point of Voyager. Why would you have a hard time accepting them as Canon.
>>
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:36:32 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.58646 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58645
It's always felt like the execs behind Star Trek have been trying to figure out ways to shoehorn war and fighting stuff into the series. I enjoy the idea of the Hirogen, but like almost everything in Voyager the execution felt lacking.
>>
Latha Mabrin - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:53:02 EST ID:tfnb7ZYb No.58648 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58641

nothing? i may give voyager a watch soon, i hope that's not the case. i've seen a few episodes of voyager, and i enjoyed them, but they all features Seven of Nine.
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Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 14:38:12 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.58649 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58648
The characters are pretty good, better than what we got with Enterprise. But due to circumstances the material that was given to them was somewhat lacking.

Everything really takes off when Seven comes on board, it still has it's flaws but it's far superior to what came before.
>>
Latha Mabrin - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 15:01:00 EST ID:tfnb7ZYb No.58650 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58649

i really like what i've seen of it, they were good episodes. As for Enterprise, I like the look of that too. I love that I've still got two whole series' of Trek to enjoy, and much of TOS.
>>
Dr. Yuris - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:35:39 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58655 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58649
I find the whole bridge crew of Voyager severely lacking in (likeable) personality. And the ones that do have a decent personality are boring as fuck. The only character that I think is compelling is EMH. But Paris, Tuvok, and Belanna are alright. Seven is okay but she gets tiring.
>>
General Krim - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 01:43:18 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58656 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58655
Tom Paris is just as boring as Kim to me. Fuck Chipotle, too. Obviously fuck Neelix. The rest of the characters are quality but Seven and the Doctor are really the only ones I consistently enjoy. Probably because they're acted the best.
>>
General Krim - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 01:44:32 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58657 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58656
actually I wanna edit that last part, cause Tuvok is also well-acted.
>>
Legate Turrel - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 08:03:07 EST ID:1IXmTGTr No.58659 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58655

I enjoyed EMH, well the guy it's based on in DS9's Doctor Bashir I presume. There seems to be a severe dislike of Neelix here.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 09:00:30 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58660 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58612
That's what Harry said and he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Probably why he never gets a promotion.

There are numerous examples of things going faster than warp 9.9999999999..Such as the Voyager pilot where they go 70,000 light years in 2.7 seconds, the Borg have transwarp, there's that crazy surf propulsion wave from TNG, and there's plenty of future episode where warp 12/13/14 etc seems to be a standard speed

I would imagine they develop some sort of shielding so you don't turn into a toungeless transgender salamander
>>
Corporal Chang - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 16:20:57 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58677 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58664
Oh god no. There's only one explanation. A FTM in Trek played by a black woman. Gods help us, squeeze your anuses everyone, the butthurt is incoming in 3...2...
>>
Valkris - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 16:53:52 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58678 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58677
Oh it's coming. It's gonna be a butthurt storm. It's the perfect storm.
>>
Kalita - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:33:49 EST ID:K6pRQ8/j No.58682 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58677
I always thought of Dax being a representation of a transgender character. While not being by definition trans she/he does retain memories of being the opposite sex and sisko refers to her by her old nickname. Also she takes every chance to point out her previous hosts and how it was to have a dick.
>>
Commander Morag - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 18:14:40 EST ID:Ju4jkf7E No.58685 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58677
Michael is a rare woman's name but it happens.

So no, there's more than one explanation.

Trans in even TOS era trek shouldn't be a thing and it'd be a worrying development if that happened. It'd show little knowledge of the universe on the part of someone with enough influence to make casting calls. I guess we'll find out eventually. Or we won't if it doesn't happen. Just wait and see. No one knows shit.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ea/Michael_Michele_as_Cleo_Finch.jpg

That's a Michael. Not trans. Not FTM. Just a girl.
>>
Commander Morag - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 18:23:40 EST ID:Ju4jkf7E No.58686 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58685
Oh snap, also another explanation.

Michael is a cis gendered female but was born a transgendered MTF. I think it would be unrealistically optimistic to do a variation on Uhura's "response to "charming negress" but that would be the ultimate win.
>>
Natima Lang - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 19:32:52 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58687 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58685
lol, unlikely
>>
Guinan - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 19:36:39 EST ID:H+yufVoX No.58688 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58677
She needs to be in a wheelchair too
>>
Lt. JG Nog - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 19:38:43 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58689 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>including gays and stuff in the 90s
>edgy, even revolutionary maybe

>including gays and stuff in 2017
>cashing in on those diversity bucks
>>
Vash - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 21:35:15 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58690 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58689
lol nobody even said that in this thread, but I do think the idea of trans people in the future is weird. I don't think it's a huge deal it just seems like it's gonna be weird and forced, like it wouldn't fit in.
>>
Kono - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 22:36:53 EST ID:3bunwxei No.58691 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58689
To be fair, it's not exactly a wrong assessment. And this is coming from someone who really loves diversity, but also despises at how toxic the entire discourse on it has become on both sides for the sake of gaining twitter points.

Though I think we're all jumping the gun here. Their name might not even be final. I'm more worried that they think Mudd is a character worth reviving more than anything.

Regardless, Star Trek is one of those series that attempts diversity right. They're weren't always perfect with it, but you can tell that it was mostly out of a genuine understanding of it, not for the sake of gaining points. I want to think that the people behind Discovery also understand that but who knows at this point?
>>
Guinan - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 23:40:15 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58692 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58689
This is true as fuck
Goddamn
>>
Rear Admiral Gregory Quinn - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 23:52:47 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58693 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58690
As someone who is trans ofmgg I'm outing myself on /1701/ I'm never going to be able to live this down I can unequivocally say that there should NEVER be a trans(sexual) person on Trek. You can have crossdressers, you can have people presenting gender non-traditionally, but genuine transsexuals should not exist at all, because changing your gender absolutely at the atomic level would be as simple as going through the transporter.

If they ham fist trans issues into Trek, I'm gon b p mad. Dax was a very tasteful and appropriate way to talk about it. This is just wrong (if this is what it is, and I mean I'd be glad to be proven wrong and she's just a chick named Michael.)
>>
Gul Evek - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 05:13:38 EST ID:mBeU+0Yx No.58694 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58693

>changing your gender absolutely at the atomic level would be as simple as going through the transporter.

this could make for a good episode..
>>
Noah Lessing - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 09:37:06 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58695 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58694
>transporter malfunction
>the away team has to deal with the fact that they're now opposite sex but still complete their mission because it is time sensitive
>they learn to work together in new ways, and along the way learn to appreciate the opposite sex

It could be funny, and wholesome
>>
Dr. Yuris - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 11:00:26 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.58696 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58694
or that time it was a simple matter performed to scam an old man into backing the Nagus

they were just like "ah shit I gotta be a woman what a drag" like you would approach getting a tooth filled
same with transklingoning

but I wouldn't expect these fuckwits to actually pay any attention to trek
>>
David Marcus - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 11:35:15 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58697 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58693

Hello I am another trans person on this board.

I basically agree with you.
>>
David Marcus - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 11:36:27 EST ID:QynCFn2n No.58698 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58695

>le gender swap episode

futurama did it. nb
>>
Legate Hovat - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 12:39:41 EST ID:Ju4jkf7E No.58699 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58696
>scam and old man
Yeah, I was thinking of that when I talked about in universe knowledge. The tech exists. Anyone who is trans will change that as soon as the federation deems them old enough to be sure and BAM. Done. Cisgendered. Of course you'd have been trans and I imagine that is kind of hard to deal with, but then I guess they'd have much better therapy, Troi aside and be familiar with the emotional problems people would suffer as a result of sustained gender dysphoria and stuff.

People are up in arms about the pepsi advert but it's just more overt than most. Diversity bux are big business. The sad thing is that people do make legit statements too, and it's hard to tell them apart without investing time in the media. I guess usually you just avoid hot baked shit and stick to stuff that's good.

Which does full cycle. Trans in trek would be bad because the writers would evidently not know the universe.
>>
Guinan - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 12:44:54 EST ID:uOAsGXeh No.58700 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1491410694630.jpg -(39288B / 38.37KB, 650x341) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Anyone else concerned about this?

>Klingon Sarcophagus Ship

The idea that Klingons have no respect or care for the bodies of the dead has been well established in just about every Star Trek series. The body is just a shell once it's dead.

Like wtf?
>>
Noah Lessing - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 12:59:00 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58701 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58700
yeah, scroll up
>>
Rear Admiral Gregory Quinn - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 15:15:16 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58703 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58695
Yeah see that's exactly the kind of cheesy moralizing we need in Trek. It would be like Rascals except instead of Riker being Picard's dad he would fuck...I mean...

>>58697
Woo fight the power! Trannies for Trek

>>58699
>>the writers would evidently not know the universe.
Yeah but if we can tell one thing consistently about STD it's that, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
>>
Ghengis Dong - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 17:46:40 EST ID:x/xsaJ2n No.58706 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58700
Just to play devil's advocate and indulge in some gross optimism, what if it's something that even most Klingon's consider perverse and aberrant? I actually think there's some cool potential there to expose the intricacies of Klingon society.


Their society and cultural norms can't be totally Homogeneous (especially over time, how long have they had space-flight?), and I can definitely recall some Klingon characters (especially powerful ones) who give few shits at all about traditional honor.
>>
Ghengis Dong - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 17:59:13 EST ID:x/xsaJ2n No.58707 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58369
Oh shit, I just now see the expanded image. WTF why would anything Klingon ever be so ornamental?

That Mosque itself is fuckin neato, but why the hell would they "draw inspiration" from it in such a way?
nb
>>
Guinan - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 21:56:44 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58708 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1491443804738.jpg -(41768B / 40.79KB, 562x540) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>58701
Listen I'm just saying controversy about that died down quickly

>>58706
Now this THIS.. I think could be really interesting actually. It could be good or bad, depending on what they do with it, bit potentially it could be really great.

>They have ridges, but by this point Dr Phlox had created a cure to that deadly Klingon Virus, but he made sure to imasculate them by giving them human genetics which insultingly removed and reduce their forehead ridges. That means they were from a distant part of the Klingon Empire, or perhaps even some sort of outcasts.. which leads me to another idea here.. hear me out: the HurQ were an alien race that basically uplifted/enslaved the Klingons. Their domination over QuoNoS was so great, their race so advanced, they were viewed as Gods by the Klingon People. This race of people may have been at one point in history a rival force to the Dominion, as they came from the Gamma quadrant through the wormhole. Eventually, the Klingons rose up against their oppressive Gods and realized they could be killed. They turned their own technology against them and learned to make it their own. This is how the Klingon people became spaceborne, where they brought their war to the HurQ, who retreated and we're eventually annihilated, now the Klingons have no gods, save for one in disgrace, bound forever to guard the Klingon afterlife. This fella is pictured in the TNG episode Devil's Due, and is the only HurQ we ever see on-screen. Being that he closely resembles a Klingon in some ways but is very alien in others, it's conceivable​ that the HurQ may have merged their genetics in some way with the Klingons?

Now what if these guys we see are the OG Klingons, with less HurQ genetics , and absolutely no human genetics?
>>
Guinan - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 21:56:44 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58709 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1491443804896.jpg -(41768B / 40.79KB, 562x540) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>58701
Listen I'm just saying controversy about that died down quickly

>>58706
Now this THIS.. I think could be really interesting actually. It could be good or bad, depending on what they do with it, bit potentially it could be really great.

>They have ridges, but by this point Dr Phlox had created a cure to that deadly Klingon Virus, but he made sure to imasculate them by giving them human genetics which insultingly removed and reduce their forehead ridges. That means they were from a distant part of the Klingon Empire, or perhaps even some sort of outcasts.. which leads me to another idea here.. hear me out: the HurQ were an alien race that basically uplifted/enslaved the Klingons. Their domination over QuoNoS was so great, their race so advanced, they were viewed as Gods by the Klingon People. This race of people may have been at one point in history a rival force to the Dominion, as they came from the Gamma quadrant through the wormhole. Eventually, the Klingons rose up against their oppressive Gods and realized they could be killed. They turned their own technology against them and learned to make it their own. This is how the Klingon people became spaceborne, where they brought their war to the HurQ, who retreated and we're eventually annihilated, now the Klingons have no gods, save for one in disgrace, bound forever to guard the Klingon afterlife. This fella is pictured in the TNG episode Devil's Due, and is the only HurQ we ever see on-screen. Being that he closely resembles a Klingon in some ways but is very alien in others, it's conceivable​ that the HurQ may have merged their genetics in some way with the Klingons?

Now what if these guys we see are the OG Klingons, with less HurQ genetics , and absolutely no human genetics?
>>
Guinan - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 21:59:53 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58710 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58708
>>58709

Why do I always somehow doublepost? Is this another side effect of the Nexus, or do I accidentally to many maraji crystals?

maraji crystals are a helluva spacedrug
>>
Rear Admiral Gregory Quinn - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 22:36:26 EST ID:ncw6KkRg No.58712 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58710
Non-cardassian confirmed. So jealous of your maraji. All we have here is yamok sauce.
>>
Private E Hamboyan - Wed, 05 Apr 2017 22:53:43 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58713 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58709
Oh I didn't mean anything, I just assumed you hadn't noticed it was already in this thread.
>>
Private E Hamboyan - Thu, 06 Apr 2017 00:08:48 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58714 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58709
also, wtf is that in that picture? I dont' remember that. What episode?
>>
Emperor Kahless - Thu, 06 Apr 2017 02:43:53 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58717 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58714
Devil's Due.
>>
Guardian of Forever - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:01:09 EST ID:Mw2ViAbq No.58822 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Michael Dorn turned down a role as some rando anscestor of Worf.

This is another red flag.

Sir, we are facing full franchise cascade failure.
>>
Vash - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:18:21 EST ID:KN9lUNxQ No.58823 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58822
>Michael Dorn turned down a role
woah it really must be bad
>>
Torg - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:33:53 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58824 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58822
Clearly STD is without honor.
>>
Leeta - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:45:16 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58826 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58822
Whoa, that's a huge red flag. Next we're gonna hear that Frakes turned down a role as chef aboard Discovery.
>>
Emperor Kahless - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:40:41 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58827 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58823
It would be more accurate to say that the producers are bad. They offered Dorn less than 1% of what he made the last time he played Worf. Just on principle, I'm sure his manager told him he HAD to reject that offer. The fact that they weren't willing to make a follow up offer means they don't understand how essential the history of the franchise is to making this thing work, or else they're just flat broke.
>>
Colonel Lovok - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:56:16 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58829 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58827
They're trying to put as little capital as possible into it since they're just using it to lure people to their streaming platform.
>>
Nanpart Malor - Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:24:33 EST ID:rGe2vLZs No.58830 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58823
Yo, I'd have been down to revisit some Colonel Worf with dem smooth head ridges.
>>
Admiral T'Lara - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:07:49 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58833 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58829
Fucking hilarious since Netflix payed for the damn thing. It's not even their own money!
>>
Beverly Crusher - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:14:04 EST ID:tMn/oygc No.58834 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58833

netflix seems dumb here.

why pay for the launch of a show on your competitor?
>>
Beverly Crusher - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:31:31 EST ID:tMn/oygc No.58835 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I am 100% sure that the goons over at redshirtsalwaysdie have been paid off by paramount.

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/04/11/star-trek-new-series-life-cycle/

  1. this show looks like trash and has dick-all to do with the previous films and shows.

2. these fucking idiots are pretending that JJTrek was "successful"

3. these fucking idiots are watching ENT through nostalgia goggles and don't realize it.
>>
Quark - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:02:41 EST ID:KN9lUNxQ No.58836 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58827
>They offered Dorn less than 1% of what he made the last time he played Worf.
hahahahahaha holy shit you cheap ferengi fucks
>>
Captain Blackwood - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:57:44 EST ID:3bunwxei No.58837 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58836
Oh c'mon, even the Ferengi wouldn't be stupid enough to give an offer that low.
>>
Guinan - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:45:57 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58838 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58827
Yeah this is really bad

AND I THOUGHT THINGS WERE BAD BEFORE
>>
Colonel Lovok - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:01:00 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58840 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58834
I hadn't yet realized that. It's fucking retarded.
WTF Netflix, why would they overlook that, and let the hacks at CBS do it, when they could have done it themselves!
AAGGGGHHHHHHHH
>>
Dr. Denara Pel - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:38:56 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58842 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58834
Like CBS All-Access is genuinely going to compete with Netflix.
Remember, Netflix has the rights to the show everywhere outside the US, and obviously they think they can make more money than they paid for it just from that or else they wouldn't have done it. On top of that, since they know they will always be the king of the heap and All-Access will probably bite it pretty much out of the gate, to be in on the ground floor with CBS so they can buy the rights to all the shows when they go under (and thus, end up actually owning the production of STD, rather than having to fight with CBS over every detail if it was an equal partnership.)
>>
Colonel Lovok - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:00:40 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58843 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58842
Still wish that Netflix would have just gone all in and produced it themselves. It could have potentially been their biggest show.
>>
Dr. Denara Pel - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:41:55 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58844 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58843
I'm sure Netflix would have loved to do that if CBS/Paramount would have let them. See, we're going to have to pry the Trek franchise from CBS/Paramount's cold, dead hands one day, possibly literally. Even when they monumentally fuck it up, they will keep their vice grip on it, because it is the last golden calf either company has.
>>
Noonian Soong - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:11:30 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58845 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58844
does that mean all the past star treks will be removed from netflix when the new one begins? or is nothing happening to them for the time being?
>>
Dr. Denara Pel - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:45:30 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58847 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58845
http://trekmovie.com/2016/01/25/rumor-is-star-trek-leaving-amazon-prime-netflix/
I would think not, but anything is possible. They might leave this as a kill switch move if their platform is about to die, basically creating a tax on Trekkies to keep it afloat, but I don't think they will do it as soon as it launches.
>>
Mot - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 19:35:30 EST ID:zdJLz8PT No.58848 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58842

I heard they have a similar dealie for "The Expanse", which is good because I think the only remainign way to make that show even better is to get SyFy to fuck off
>>
Vosk - Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:10:10 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58849 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58847
CBS is even dumber then I figured then, because they'd get like what, .001% of the people using netflix for Star Trek to switch over, and everyone else just using putlocker or what else?
>>
Corporal R Richards - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:54:46 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.58884 Ignore Report Quick Reply
http://www.avclub.com/article/star-trek-discovery-will-remain-docked-little-whil-253813

>Accordingly, the launch date’s been nudged around for the last few months; the series was originally looking at a January 2017 premiere, which became May 2017, and then just the vague “late summer/early fall.” But with the core cast assembled—and with a new rank and name for series lead Sonequa Martin-Green—it looked like Discovery might actually undock this year.

>Instead, the outlook’s gotten a bit hazy, with CBS Interactive president Marc DeBevoise now saying he can’t say when the show will arrive.

Hope hit just dies completely at this point
>>
Grimp - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:57:51 EST ID:tMn/oygc No.58885 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58884

>leave your zombie show to be in star track

>show cancelled

this kills the acting career.
>>
Nava - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:48:22 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58886 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58884
Given that they seemed to scrap all the visuals of the show recently, it could be another couple of years before anything comes out.
>>
Latha Mabrin - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:58:20 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58887 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58884
"It is, you know, phenomenal. It is huge. And we’re very excited about the content, the creators, the actors, all coming together...We’re not worried about anything here. We’re excited..."
-CBS douche

He could not be more obvious that he's lying and that there are STILL serious issues that they can't seem to work out.
>>
Guinan - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:21:53 EST ID:RHNGWoY0 No.58892 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58884
>Hope hit just dies completely at this point

please

make it so


Post-Nemesis Show plox
>>
Koss - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:09:33 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58893 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I feel like all the disasters and setbacks they've been facing in production have been some kind of karma for trying to take advantage of trekkies to push their stupid streaming service.
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 04:49:35 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58894 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58892

i have not yet seen Nemesis, so a post-ds9 show will do. however i'm not sure where it would go from that point. the dominion defeated, cardassia in ruins, ferenginar reformed, romulans as allies...it could be a good place to start, and might be interesting to see the old civilisations changed. the rebuilding of cardassia and resistance to the federation could make for some good stories. garak never having returned to his old world now having to adapt to a new one and help build it. the older generation carrying the warnings of the past. maybe even do something with the federation itself turning into something more oppressive and sinister, trying to expand, starfleet trying to continue its exploration of the universe but at odds with a section 31 gaining more power. Hell, it's a leap, but maybe a Federation bearing alarming similarity to the borg...not much, but augmentations, implants, the ability to cybernetically think to each other for commanding starships (but maybe not quite so far so that it's no longer human) the things that could go wrong with that, resistance, sinister forces trying to use that to their advantage..but then that sounds too far from traditional Trek and would require the show to take place far in advance of Deep Space Nine. But it might make for some good episodes.
>>
Koss - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 05:28:03 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58895 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58894
Yeah that would be interesting, but I think I'd actually like more into the dominion war. If they made a show in a parallel timeline as ds9 or just after the war has started would be interesting.
But then they'd be in a corner. DS9 I think has already done everything for the dominion war, I think. What else is there to explore? I mean I"m sure there is plenty to explore for the war, but 7 seasons worth?
Post dominion war would be really interesting, but I bet writers wouldn't wanna go near the idea. There's so much at state and so much to screw up. I imagine that's why they have avoided it.
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 06:13:34 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58896 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58895

I think the dominion war is done. it was the main story thread running through ds9. it was great for ds9, and that's it. we had many great episodes from that conflict, not just the war but the way it affected people and the way lives changed because of it. The ending to DS9 left a lot to work from, a lot to rebuild, there's plenty to go on what with some civilisations ruined/radically changed, the federation still recovering while having to work to help rebuild a ruined cardassia, maybe working alongside the ferengi alliance and the romulans. dealing with the remnants of the dominion too, maybe altering the Jem'Hadar. I could see the klingons forming an alliance with the jem'hadar.

it also depends on what kind of show it would be. deep space nine is unique from the other star trek shows, what else could be done? a star trek dealing with the galaxy at large, or back to the traditional exploration? or a bit of both?

and yes, you're right, there is a lot at stake and it's easy to see how they don't want to screw up seeing as ds9 was so perfectly wrapped up and is such a beloved series with such a strong following.

that all said, star trek discovery is still on the horizon (again and again), so we'll wait and see. some things are better left.
>>
Christopher Brynner - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 12:48:25 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58900 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58894
So basically, Babylon 5
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:38:36 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58901 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58900

I've never watched Babylon 5 although I read that the DS9 writers were on a number of occasions accused of plagiarising that show. Even if that were the case it wouldn't make a bit of difference, as there is nothing wrong with taking inspiration. Still, Babylon 5 is held in pretty high regard.
>>
Christopher Brynner - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:44:42 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58903 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58901
Watch it. It has a weird early 90s aesthetic that's charming once you get used to it-- but offputting at first, especially the use of synth and film noir dialogue.
But once you get to season 2 you have to hold onto your butthole until it's over 3 seasons later
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:57:16 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58905 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58903

90s aesthetic and synth and film noir dialogue sounds right up my alley.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 15:33:17 EST ID:yQzOWsVj No.58906 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58901
Honestly both DS9 and Babylon 5 are legit.. I feel like if you like one you will probably like the other.

Deep Space 9 DEFINITELY stole some ideas from B5, but thats really only apparent once you've watched them both and thought about the fact that continuity in TV shows was a radical concept in the 90s
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 17:10:42 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58907 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58906

Twin Peaks was the first show to have a continuing story over the course of a series, previously it was almost always a new-thing-every-week format. From then on shows like the x files and ds9 developed an ongoing story but still had standalone story episodes. You can see in the first two seasons of ds9 in particular there were many episodes that resembled TNG, like Meridian, but then once they encountered the dominion and the more things came together it became a long continuing struggle between the different alpha quadrant powers and the dominion and the characters caught in between, that and being set in mostly one location it can't really not have a continuing story.
>>
Ulani Belor - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 17:22:27 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58909 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58907
Yeah, and Twin Peaks gets all the credit for it too, but I think undeservedly. Serialized storylines had been an element as far back as shows like Gunsmoke, they just almost always took a back-seat and were the B or C plotline.
B5 was innovative in that it made the serialized plot the A plot, and built the entire show around it, making dramatic commitments to things that wouldn't bear fruit for years, and also kept the whole thing up in the air for 5 years, whereas Twin Peaks barely lasted 2. Also the fact that it was genre fiction meant it was able to tell a large scale, epic story (in the specific sense of modelling the classical epics of mythology, not like 'lol thats epic dude.')

So for all those reasons, while Twin Peaks may have been more experimental, B5 was more ground-breaking. Twin Peaks showed it could be done on a limited scale to draw in a cult following. B5 showed it could be done on a massive scale and bring in a decent genre following. DS9 McDonaldized it and showed it could be done for a mass market following. And now it is the ONLY thing that TV shows do (can you name a modern dramatic show that follows a purely episodic format?)
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 17:38:43 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58910 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58909

>Also the fact that it was genre fiction meant it was able to tell a large scale, epic story (in the specific sense of modelling the classical epics of mythology, not like 'lol thats epic dude.')

thanks for clarifying lol

>DS9 McDonaldized it and showed it could be done for a mass market following.

lol.

And no, I can't think of a single modern dramatic show that follows a purely episodic format, they're all "previously on" and then going on and so on.
>>
Belongo - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 17:41:14 EST ID:vhe/UV6p No.58911 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58909

To my knowledge however, Twin Peaks was the first show to have a completely serialised story, multiple story strands all tied together tightly.
>>
Christopher Brynner - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 18:24:49 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58912 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57831
For me, T'Pol and the other Vulcans make more sense once you get that the Vulcans have been being destabilized and manipulated by the Romulans, and that they don't even have the original writings of Surak.
That means that while they are trying to follow logic, they don't have the full technology to do that, being the Full Teachings of Surak. So their emotional suppression is rudimentary at best, just enough to fool them, with the veneer of "logic" we see on the Alt Right-- as in, it's confusing unemotionality with casual brutality, with being "detached" enough to carry out banal fascism, which is right in line with Romulans.

Fuck I love Romulans, man.
I like when they fully show how paranoid the Romulans are by nature, and the ancient Vulcans. This is why they need the realest kind of objectivity possible: to short circuit their bias toward suspicion.
>>
Prosecutor Orak - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:14:43 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.58913 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58912
>Fuck I love Romulans, man.
Me too.

Prussia has been called "an army with a state." Well the Romulans are "a spy agency with a state."
>>
Private E Hamboyan - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 23:20:07 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.58916 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58912
Indeed. I wish the shows went more into the Romulans more often and more in depth.
>>
Daniel Jackson - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:23:21 EST ID:HwIblk4K No.58918 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58912
Romulan Tal Shiar , reminds me of Russian KGB
>>
Captain Paul Rice - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 01:09:51 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58928 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58918
Which is funny, because technically, I think the Romulans were supposed to be Chinese Commies and the Klingons the Rooskies.

Although really, Romulans are obviously Space Romans, fascistic, arrogant and passionate.
It's just such a bitch they, esp in TNG and DS9, play the Romulans as Unfriendly Vulcans.
>>
Captain Paul Rice - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:53:03 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58938 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58932
That's because TNG is the laziest show of them all.
It really does require a lot of generosity and nostalgia-goggles to get by with the shit it does.

That's why it's so incredible that so many people can be so hypocritical to claim it's the best trek show and that enterprise is the worst.

To be fair, TOS is the actual worst. TOS movies made up for it though, and yes, I do give TOS a LOT of leeway for being literally "wagon train in space" and being a 60s show.

I mean, Marcus Welby and Quincy M.E. are some of my favorite shows. I like episodic trash.

But you know, aside from that, you're full of shit, because they go to Romulus with spock and it's obviously a Roman environment, same with the way the Senate and Military are shown in Enterprise and Nemesis.

The only way you could not see this is if you don't know shit about Roman Empire.
And that's fine, we can't know everything. Maybe you know a lot about math or skateboarding or some other thing I don't.
It's all good, but like, READ, nigga.
Shit, pic related book is readily available on amazon and torrents/bookzz so like, learn you a Romulus for great good.
>>
Lt. Maxwell Burke - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:36:49 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58939 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58928
No no no! You're not allowed to compare things in Star Trek to things in the real world. Look about 200 posts up, this one guy will come along and go absolutely ape shit on you, it derailed the thread for almost 50 posts! Those ideas are not part of the allowed group think!
>>
Q - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:48:59 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58943 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58939
nah he just got triggered by media buzzwords. he couldn't leave it on /pol/ or social media.
>>
Darlene Kursky - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:41:56 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58948 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58938
Look buddy, I don't know what bug crawled up your ass to make you this presumptive, this arrogant, and this fucking rude. I know enough about the Romans to know that I don't know a whole lot, but what I do know simply does not jibe with the Romulans we see in TNG, while TOS at least pushed the angle of what people thought of the Romans back then. Which, as reflected in their other Rome episode, is fairly stereotypical.

Maybe you're just high as shit, and had no idea you were sounding like this much of a cunt, but you're not even giving me a whole lot to go on, either. Romulans are "obviously" Roman? Yeah, I got that far on my own. But if you think it's faithful, you're going to have to explain how, instead of just stating it and insulting the other party.
>>
Dr. Reyga - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:48:40 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58953 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58948
>Yeah, I haven't read anything about this subject.
>How arrogant of you to suggest a book to familiarize myself, what an asshole you are for insisting I back up my bullshit with actual data

Yeah, wow, I'm SUCH a jerk
>>
Tiron - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:51:52 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.58961 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58953
To be fair, you do come off like a giant asshole. You could try tact, you'd get better conversations out of it. But that's fine if you don't know how to converse with other people, we can't know everything.
>>
Noah Lessing - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:54:44 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58965 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58953
It's not like you were making a point that is indisputable. The connection between Romulans and Romans is very weak and mostly only present in the first episode they appear in. The Romans didn't have a massive, paranoid spy network as their raison d'etre, they had a relatively open society. They weren't insular isolationists, but expansionists and perhaps even the first 'globalists.' Yes, they were both abjectly authoritarian, but most of the antagonists in Trek are authoritarian.

The relationship between Romulans and Romans isn't very deep, or even very grounded in the reality of what Romans were like. Their 'Romanness' is skin-deep at best, and based on a very popularized, i.e. not very realistic, idea of what Romans were like. Most of their characteristics are informed by Cold War Soviet behaviors, not the history of the Roman empire.

So mostly you're going off the rails in anger at someone about something that's not even really a thing.
>>
Quark - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 03:39:17 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58969 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58965
Look up the elitism of Roman society, and the slave culture. Look up the structure of their government. Because you are objectively ignoring those.
>>
Jean-Luc Picard - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 05:22:06 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58971 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58965
During the time of TOS, there was still this conservative Christian outlook of the Romans as the "true" barbarians, compounded by loads of made up shit and misinterpretations. Of course, Roman civilization was around for roughly two millennia, and was Christian itself for more than half of that.

It seems to me that there was a change in the world of media a few decades ago, where suddenly historical accuracy started mattering a lot more in people's eyes. I recall Troy as the last real swords & sandals film of any worth, that being a movie that didn't even try to be historically accurate. Even when they get it wrong, these days they do try, even if it's only a little. An expert will still tear apart something like Ironclad, but compared to something like that Joan of Arc movie by Luc Besson, it's lot more faithful, even if only in the attempt.

During the times of TOS, the one thing that seemed to define Rome in the eyes of (American) people was their persecution of Christians. And now we know that image might have been exagerated, because a lot of it came from stories Christians themselves used to write, which were purposefully lurid to at once make it clear to Christians that they were a persecuted underclass, but at the same time appeal to non-Christians who just wanted some entertainment. So when the Romulans seem like they're a propaganda version of Rome... it's because they are. And their underhanded way of acting suddenly makes a lot more sense when you look at it from the perspective of a persecuted minority.

In this, Reunification is actually a pretty good example, because it highlights that perspective, with the "Christians" hiding underground, forever fearful of being apprehended, and the selfless Spock "Jesus". Even the distinction between old Rome as represented by the Romulans and the Byzantine/Christian world that came from old Rome as represented by the Vulcans works quite well. I'm not sure if they intended that when they originally created Romulans, but it fits.

This reminds me of Philip K. Dick. He had a massive psychosis, and like a lot of them, his was religious in nature. PKD is a pretty typical kind of guy for the post-war period, already an active writer in the 50's, but never fought in the war himself. So I'd say he represents the age well enough. And his psychosis was that he was a Christian hiding from Roman authorities. That's how prevalent this viewpoint was.
>>
Grimp - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 09:48:01 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.58973 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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can this thread be about STD?

stop posting cancer.

nb.
>>
Corporal R Richards - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 11:24:49 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.58974 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>There's no indication that CBS will scrap the series altogether, but everything from the tone of the show to the look of the ship that inspired the show's title has given fans pause.

>If "Discovery" took place in a post-apocalyptic future, it could betray the essence of the show it is based on.

>"Enterprise" was cancelled after four seasons due to low ratings. ...And with what we know about "Discovery," there's reason to believe it will continue that trend.

>http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/04/should_star_trek_discoverys_co.html
>>
Noah Lessing - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 15:15:57 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58979 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58969
Look man, this 'go look up' bullshit is just not going to fly around here. I am almost positive I know more about Rome than you because it was a major focus for me in school, I can even badly speak latin, but you don't see me whining about 'go take a class in Roman history in latin and THEN you'll see how obviously right I am.' It's pretentious and condescending, which is how you've come across in every post I've seen you make lately.

To the point of what you're saying: no shit Romans were elitist. Do we have any proof that Romulans are elitist? Romans had a slave culture. Do we have any proof that Romulans have slaves? The Romans had a senate. The Romulans have a senate. The US also has a senate. Does that mean the US is Roman?

I'm not objectively ignoring anything. In fact, I'm expressly stating something unrelated to what you seem to be arguing. You seem to think that I am arguing that Romulans aren't based on Romans. I'm not saying that, I'm saying Romulans are based on a shitty, popularized, Americanized interpretation of what Romans were, not on the real thing, and that element doesn't even inform most of their characteristics. So bringing up qualities of Rome that Romulans don't really share doesn't even really respond to my post.

nb because it's not STD
>>
Michael Sullivan - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:38:40 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.58987 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58971
the christian hiding from roman authorities thing was not exactly literal

the roman empire in PKD's exegis/writings in VALIS was written as a much broader idea of just "The Empire", as in any system of oppression putting down the freedoms of man in any time or place, and the idea of being a christian was someone who understood the evil in power structures for what they were and were in some way hunted/persecuted by the state for this knowledge

he was just using christians and romans as an allegory for all forms of the power vs knowledge dichotomy, hence his prevalent usage of the phrase "The Empire never ended."

nb cuz PKD related not ST related
>>
Quark - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:47:29 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58990 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58979
>>58979
Apparently you haven't watched much Trek at all.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Romulan#Society

You will see all the things I am talking about.
Perhaps you are just new to trek? Did you not see Nemesis or really, fucking anything with Romulans in it?

Since you are interested in Rome though, may I suggest again Peter Heather's book, because it's very good and detailed.

And yes, the European Colonial Empires of the Industrial Revolution were definitely descendants of Rome.
That's why there are Fasces all over most government buildings and monuments in those countries. Like in the House of Representatives building.
>>
Stonn - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 22:26:01 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58993 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58990
Why are you such a tremendous asshole? Seriously, do you see anyone else acting this way?
>>Apparently you haven't watched much Trek at all.
I have seen literally every single minute of canon Star Trek, most three or four times.

>>Cites Nemesis
Most things about Romulans established by Nemesis are questionable, like the whole movie. Remans didn't exist before this, and in the movie they seem to be some sort of subjugated class, but the next time we see them, in the past in ENT, they seem to be running the show, or at least of more importance. Still, much like B4 and a lot of other questionable developments, I would take the legitimacy of anything established by Nemesis with a grain of salt.

Again, I will tell you to fuck off with your condescending link posting without explaining yourself, as if that's a coherent argument or responding to what the other posts are saying. Once again, what you are talking about is not responding to what I'm saying, so even if there were some points about what you were saying in that article, it still wouldn't have anything to do with my post. In fact, your entire post is just a long insult, with no content. So I'll just say the same thing I said last time again; the Romanness of Romulans is only skin deep, the connections between them are superficial, whereas the connections between Romulans and the Soviets are very deep and structural. Additionally, the concept of Romans the Romulans are based on is a pop history one, not an anthropologically accurate one.

There's a very good reason that even though they are based on Romans, they diverged pretty quickly, and it all comes from "Balance of Terror." Up until the twist, where we learn the Romulans look like Spock, all we know about them is that they are vaguely militaristic, and Roman-esque. So a lot of their characterization in that episode is centered around the Roman angle. But after their relationship to Vulcans is revealed, in every single episode that follows their character drifts more and more toward being a foil of Vulcans, rather than imitating Rome. First they try to seduce Spock. Then, in their next major encounter, they play Cold War with the Enterprise-D, all building up to an incident entirely centered a plot of double-crossing spies (secret agent man style) centered around reuniting with Vulcans. By the time we roll around to Nemesis, they are collapsing from their traditional form of government to be lead by a shiny strongman dude who leads them to destruction (not like Vulcans -- unless you think of Shinzon as some kind of anti-Surak -- but a good deal like Russia.)

If they were really just supposed to be Romans in space, why don't they have a lot of the other features we would expect them to have, like the real Romans in space, the people from 892-IV in "Bread and Circuses?" Why don't they have large gladiatorial bloodsport, why don't they make a big deal about recruiting soldiers from their conquered nations, why isn't religious observance and temple intrigue between the cults of various gods quite important to them? There's tons of characteristics that were definitive for Rome that they have nothing to do with.

I get that you're saying there is an obvious, superficial connection between Romulans and Romans. Well, fucking duh. No one is arguing with you about that, but you seem to think people just don't see what is so blatant as to be over-exaggerated. I'm not claiming that the connection isn't there. I'm claiming it's superficial, and a dead-end in interpreting the Romulans from a broader perspective. (And suggesting that it's a more complex relationship than you are painting it out to be, and thus you shouldn't be harping on about it like you're the absolute judge on it.)

Again, ++engage, - - butthurt condescension.
>>
Elim Garak - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:28:05 EST ID:PKjpxs1L No.58995 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58993
And yet, I am reminded of this [from "Were Romans Fascists?"

>However, there was a lot of what we would call fascism in Rome, as indeed in all ancient city-states.

>The main idea was that the citizens were at the service of the state, and not the other way around. Therefore, everyone was assigned a role, and people were expected to fulfill that role or being ostracized. Ostracized meant sent our to exile, deprived of property, etc.

>In Rome, for example, there were public officials called Censors. They were responsible to determine whether you were adequate for your role in society. Not just having the necessary wealth to be member of your class, but also whether you behaved adequately. Censorship was a public exercise, and there was no appeal.

>In effect, not only were citizens expected to do what's best for the community, but if they didn't they were actually detrimental, and needed to be punished. One historian compared membership in a city-state to that of a climbing party: everyone is roped to everyone else, and the weak link puts everyone in danger.

>The city-state was constantly under attack, another feature of fascism. War was an annual event, and in Rome many years saw more than one war. This means every citizen had a duty to perform, and failure to do so would be akin to treason against the collective.

So,
JOLAN TRU and the doctrine of Infinite Expansion and so on and so forth.
and they very clearly throughout TNG and the rest are rendered as Arrogant due to the Vulcanoid Superiority Complex.
Et c

I don't feel it's as surface to you. Similarly, I don't know why it's so important to you for them NOT to be.

I also don't get why you try to push this narrative that I am harassing you or hurting anyone by talking.
You want to push the idea that I am not civil, and yet, you are telling me to fuck off and have been name-calling throughout.

But see, I'm not a weiner. I can take some cuss words.
What I can't abide though, is you pushing for me to be SILENCED or REMOVED, or forced somewhere else.

As Star Trek Discovery is in fucking LIMBO right now, and there IS no news about it anymore, I'm not stifling anyone's conversation on the subject.

You just can't stand to see a differing opinion.

I mean, you know, Romulans as Space Nazis/Romans is bretty gud stuff-- I happen to like PKD and I think the Man In The High Castle tv show is really good-- AND IT SHOWS A DIRECTION I'D LOVE TO SEE TREK GO IN--
I'd like to see inside the baroque paranoid world of Romulus, just as PKD went into the paranoid worlds of the Japanese Empire and the Third Reich Triumphant.
>>
Kai Winn - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 10:55:20 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59004 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>reposting this because it was buried in off topic garbage

>There's no indication that CBS will scrap the series altogether, but everything from the tone of the show to the look of the ship that inspired the show's title has given fans pause.

>If "Discovery" took place in a post-apocalyptic future, it could betray the essence of the show it is based on.

>"Enterprise" was cancelled after four seasons due to low ratings. ...And with what we know about "Discovery," there's reason to believe it will continue that trend.

>http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/04/should_star_trek_discoverys_co.html
>>
General Martok - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:46:38 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59005 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59004
I read it the first time. Frankly, I don't really give two shits about STD. Everything we've heard about it indicates a total failure to live up to what we know as Star Trek. In fact, it seems to be trying its damndest to not be Star Trek at all, but rather some generic sci-fi show with the Star Trek label on it for some fake legitimacy.
>>
Stonn - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:22:56 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59006 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59004
That article really squints hard to get to the line that 'they're trying to make Discovery post-apocalyptic.' Now I think STD is going to be pure shit beyond pure shit, but we literally have no evidence that it's going to post-apocalyptic in any way. Even they would have to be aware of how absolutely that would trash the continuity.
>>
Admiral Hayes - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 20:31:47 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59011 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59006

it was rumored that this series is going to combine all the characters Mark Lenard played (Sarek, Romulan, Klingon) into one character who is trans-dimensional.

I don't think the producers care about trashing canon.
>>
David Marcus - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:25:43 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59018 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59011
Yeah I've heard that rumor too. It is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard anyone propose as an explanation for anything. Why do we need to write in an explanation for the fact that there are actors fucking acting in a TV show?
>>
Michael Sullivan - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 04:58:06 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59026 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59015
My opinion of VOY isn't quite that low. You've said you prefer ENT. I don't. I think ENT is much worse than VOY, so eh. VOY tried. They really did. So maybe that's why I cut it some slack. VOY has some real talent on the cast, and sometimes the writers even realize it. VOY had potential, and that potential was wasted with some extremely poor management.

That's kind of the problem I have with STD. From everything I hear, they aren't even trying. They don't understand what Star Trek is about, at least according to me. They're even saying shit like "Trek never did this before" while it bloody well fucking did. It reads like the exact same reboot trainwreck you get with every property, from the whole "radically different" angle to "it's going to be darker" thing.
>>
Deanna Troi - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:37:44 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59038 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59026
Yeah good points. It really can't be more obvious when they say shit like that, that they're just being arrogant asses who haven't spent nearly enough time studying the source material to know what they're talking about.
>>
Odo - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:02:52 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.59041 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59040
well the only way we don't end up with endless star trek FOREVER is if it stops being a marketable brand, and maybe (hopefully?) it's becoming that way. Trek 2009 didn't really bring in an "all new generation of fans", right? it's still mostly the already indoctrinated that are buying this shit?

so, good end: STD surprises us all and is solid Trek

alternate good end: STD is destined to ruin everything but the Enterprise crew goes back in time and kills it in production

horror end: STD is nothing but terrible, doesn't get better, but somehow the Star Trek brand manages to stay popular/make enough money for us to have an abominable reiteration of Shit Trek squeezed onto our plate for the rest of our lives

true end: STD is shaky, each new episode gets torn apart by fans, it limps and whimpers through a 2nd or 3rd season and finally starts to find footing just before being canceled a la ENT. we repeat the process in another 10 years.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:24:06 EST ID:UE44MWwN No.59051 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59041
Maybe you're right.

All good things.. must come to an end..
>>
Subcommander T'Rul - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:27:41 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.59052 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59051
Trek needed to be left fallow for a while after Enterprise. Movies-TNG-DS9-VOY-ENT with more movies through the whole time is a respectable run for a franchise. They keep it lurching along like that Vorta the Ferengi accidentally killed
>>
Ghee P'Trell - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:29:55 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.59057 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59052
I'll always wonder what could have been if the Voyager or DS9 crew had gotten movies instead of doing ENT/JJ Trek. I hate the TNG movies so much but both those other casts would have been much more suited to action sci-fi schlock cause their captain isn't a cerebral, shakespearean grandpa.
>>
Christopher Brynner - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:40:34 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.59059 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59051
I thought the phrase was "all good things in good time"
>>
Christopher Brynner - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:41:34 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.59060 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59059
nvm, I looked it up and I'm just a hippy burnout
>>
Albert Macklin - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 09:46:38 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59101 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Star Trek: Discovery Switches an Actor's Role Mid-Production

>Previously, Shazad Latif was supposed to be playing a Klingon commander named Kol. Now, he’s playing Lieutenant Tyler, who I swear to god is officially described with the very informative “a Starfleet officer in the Federation.”

>Kol will now be played by Kenneth Mitchell (Frequency). He’ll be joined with two other Klingon leaders, Dennas and Ujilli, played by Clare McConnell (Dim the Fluorescents) and Damon Runyan (Suits), respectively. Rekha Sharma (The 100) is joining the Discovery crew as security officer Commander Landry.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discovery-switches-an-actors-role-mid-produc-1794747543
>>
Private W Woods - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:16:18 EST ID:3bunwxei No.59102 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59101
tbf cast changes aren't anything out of the ordinary. I mean the same thing happened with Janeway on Voyager. during the pilot. Still it doesn't look
>>
Legate Porania - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:26:00 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59103 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59102
Well yeah but the thing is all that shook out within the first week of shooting with Janeway on VOY. When you need to change your principle, obviously everything you filmed with the old principle is useless. Which leads to the real nugget of information out of this gem; they have barely even shot any film, or else are now abandoning a large part of what they already shot.
>>
Guinan - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 15:22:02 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.59105 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59103
D I S C O V E R Y

I S

V A P O R W A R E

Im putting the probability that it actually comes out at this point at around 38% and falling
>>
Albert Macklin - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:04:57 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59106 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59103

>they have barely even shot any film, or else are now abandoning a large part of what they already shot.

+1

>V A P O R W A R E

I look forward to seeing the "star trek that could have been" videos.
>>
Admiral Maxwell Forrest - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:09:50 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.59107 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59103
I doubt they have any film. Remember, they shitcanned their entire effects crew. That likely means anything that was done before that was junked.
>>
Porthos - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:55:29 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59109 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59103
Yeah it's becoming quite clear that they are WAY behind schedule. Hence all the attempts at reassuring fans that everything is alright with the production. For all we know they have just started filming. When were they originally planning on releasing the series?
Aren't we past when the show was originally supposed to premiere?
>>
Admiral Maxwell Forrest - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:19:48 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.59110 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59109
It was meant to drop in January. It got pushed to Summer, then Fall, and now its TBD.
>>
Colonel Lovok - Sat, 29 Apr 2017 22:02:21 EST ID:mg20blE5 No.59111 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59105
I'd say 32.7%

You don't need to be genetically modified to know it's not good though.
>>
David Marcus - Wed, 03 May 2017 13:50:39 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.59137 Ignore Report Quick Reply
lol Phase II version 2
>>
Darlene Kursky - Wed, 03 May 2017 16:58:12 EST ID:sC3QMBOF No.59138 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59137
I'd say this is worse. Phase II died because Gene was more into making Star Trek Movies, and the Paramount Network idea crashed and burned, rather then the show itself.
>>
Guinan - Fri, 05 May 2017 04:16:22 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.59148 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59138
I'm sure CBS onDemand is totally a successful model, there's no way that a paid service with ads will fail in competition with 3 equivalent other major paid services that don't have ads
>>
KC Hunter - Fri, 05 May 2017 13:47:44 EST ID:N6IWww43 No.59151 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59149

>Diversity is Key to Star Trek: Discovery’s Mission, Fuller Promises

Okay. So while I stopped pushing my plan to signal boost a campaign of tweets to make nostalgic middle-age people reminisce about how diversity ruined Star Trek and it will just never be like the old days.

But the crux of that joke. The meat of it. The very basis of its premise, is that Star Trek's number one feature has always been diversity.

So why the hell does anyone need to say that?

It doesn't need to be said. so I can only assume some ulterior motive in saying it.


But anyway if anyone wants to take the reins on my prank against racist nostalgists, feel free but consider as I have that in our current climate it might just get taken too seriously and be horrible for society.

But maybe that aids in the further exposure of our shitty media? Anyway I'm too bummed out to do it and this show took too long to get rolling.

#diversityinmuhtrek RIP
>>
Guinan - Fri, 05 May 2017 14:10:19 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.59152 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59151
Star Treks diversity was never supposed be in your face.. it was supposed to be more subtle. In TOS they didn't go "LOOK LOOK THERES A BLACK LADY ON THE BRIDGE", Uhura was just there doing her shit like it was normal. Shit, I didn't even NOTICE the men in skirts in TNG until like my 3rd rewatch

If Discovery actually comes out, I predict JJ trek will be made to look better by comparison.

We might as well just start considering Babylon 5 to be Star trek now, it's going to be more like it than NuNuTrak
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Dr. Reyga - Fri, 05 May 2017 14:25:44 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.59153 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59151
Diversity, and subtle racism.
Jew aliens, spear chucker aliens, etc.
>>
KC Hunter - Fri, 05 May 2017 15:45:06 EST ID:N6IWww43 No.59154 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59153
Yes, Diversity and subtle racism.
The twin pillars that would make this prank skyrocket through the trending engines.

But like, if discovery is also bad then it just devolves into actual racism and actual bad vibes and that would be terrible.

>>59153
>spear chucker aliens
The worst part is that it wasn't even TOS. It was TNG doing that.
>>
Curzon Dax - Fri, 05 May 2017 23:24:32 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59155 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59151
Unfortunately Trek doesn't exist in a vacuum. While the need to harp about 'diversity' solely within the context of Trek is pretty much completely redundant (it's baked into the premise -- although you might wonder that based on some of the posts we've seen here lately...) but the reality is that in the time since Trek was a leading edge on the concept of diversity, diversity has exploded into the public consciousness and has become the go-to battlefield of the Culture War.

I think it was, perhaps, naive of us to think that somehow Trek could remain its pure self without being influenced by the surrounding culture, especially when it is in the hands of such novices.
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Kira Nerys - Sun, 07 May 2017 03:28:21 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59166 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59153
I think people are oversensitive in regard to the Ferengi and the... black planet, for lack of a better term. For starters, the Ferengi don't share any ACTUAL characteristics with Jews. They merely share some of the same stereotypes. And let's be real, here. The sort of stereotypes the Jews got saddled with, and which show up in the Ferengi, are your basic unflattering stereotypes. Exagerated facial features, hunched gait, and a penchant for base scheming are just as much stereotypes of Fantasy monsters like Goblins. The Ferengi exhibit these traits because they're meant to be unlikable, not because they're supposed to be Jews.

So what's the other link? They like money. They're consumate traders. Oh, and they're raging misogynists, which is not a stereotype of Jews at all. Riker basically comes out and says it when they're first mentioned: Ferengi are an extremely heavyhanded "criticism" on capitalism. The original Ferengi could be straight out of Soviet propaganda if you just fatten them up a little and put them in a three-piece suit with top hat. Probably the entire idea behind them was to show how what we consider normal would look literally monstrous and pathetic to the people in Star Trek.

But they're not fucking Jews, they were never intended to be Jews, there's no accidental, subconscious similarity between them and Jews. The only link is that they're often played by Jewish actors for some reason. But why would a Jew play a Jewish stereotype? Because the money is good?

Part of me thinks people just enjoy pointing this shit out. A legit form of "virtue signalling", if you will. A connect the dots between the features of the Ferengi and those of Jews in Nazi propaganda, without getting into any detail, and here's a tiny issue one can be mock-offended over.

I'm from a people with a tradition of trade. Not everyone has liked us because of it. Those "Jewish" stereotypes that are applied to the Ferengi? Also applied to us, right down to being know for having big noses. Because these are stereotypes people readily apply to some "other", especially if they don't like them.

As for the black planet, the accusations of racism are again vague. They're a planet of retards like we've seen a dozen times in TOS and TNG, except this time everyone is black. That's not *that* much of a radical departure from TNG's regular antics. Again, they exhibit no actual stereotypes that people associate with black people. Not that I could tell, anyway. Sure, they're backwards tribals, but not in the way people usually attribute to black people. Despite what you say, they're not actually "spearchuckers". They seem much closer to a species like Klingons, in terms of culture.

Compare them to Up The Long Ladder, and you see the difference between maybe an unfortune casting choice and actual, deliberate, conscious racism. The aloofness and superiority of the crew, the constant rapid-fire stereotypes, none of it being funny, and all of it done in front of a cast member who is from that culture. The black planet is nothing compared to that. Instead, you see the crew treat that aliens as equal, respecting their customs even when a crewmember is at risk, and at the end there's the twist that actually the women have a lot more control than you'd think, despite being treated as property. Is it a good episode? No. But it's fairly typical of TOS and early TNG, and hits the same notes as all the episodes where not everyone on the planet is black.

So that's really the only thing. They're all black. A useless, superfluous casting decision made for a reason I'm not aware of. The decision itself is more racist than the episode, though. Maybe they intended some point that was ultimately lost, and probably impossible to make within the framework of Star Trek. It's not like the TNG crew is going to notice they're all black. Some scene with "I couldn't help but notice your entire planet is monoracial" would have gone over even worse.

But the racism is firmly in the eye of the beholder, I think. These dudes are pretty much identical to all the other shitty cultures the Enterprise slaps its dick in the face off. In fact, now I'm thinking of the white-robed people that almost killed Wesley, and the SFDebris guy basically called THAT episode racist because all of THEM were white. So what the fuck is it people want, anyway? Make them all black, and you're being racist against black people? Make them all white, and you're being racist against black people? Of course, the argument is "the black guys are all savages, and the white guys are civilized" but that's pure fucking nonsense, and people just seeing what they want to see. The white-robed fitness planet was a world of indolent idiots with possibly the worst system of law seen in Trek, ever. Which includes shit like trial by combat and a fascist system where your sentence is known before the trial even starts, so that's saying something. And they're all being puppet-mastered by some invisible space-god who doesn't want them to join the Galactic community. By comparison, at least Planet jolly african-american seems like an actual, functional culture that gets shit done.
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Vice Admiral Nakamura - Sun, 07 May 2017 09:42:09 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59167 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59166

>ferengi

agree. "yankee traders"

>irish planet is racist

disagree. it is cartoonified, but not racist.

>black planet is *not* racist

disagree. too many tropes are piled on. the clothing, the fighting, etc. almost as bad as the Enterprise Space Arabs episode.

that being said, thank you for the long ass thoughtful rant. really made my binars interlocute.
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KC Hunter - Sun, 07 May 2017 12:30:32 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59168 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59166
Nah I'm not virtue signaling, I'm just pointing out the fact that everyone acts like Star Trek was the leading edge of diversity and race relations, when they had as much racial stereotypes as a lot of other TV. They're no shining beacon of race relations just because they had a black woman kiss a white man on tv. That was just because Gene had jungle fever.
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Kira Nerys - Sun, 07 May 2017 19:37:39 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59170 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59167
I think it's a double standard to call the one racist, and the other not. If you cartoonify a black culture like the Irish were in Up The Long Ladder, they'll be calling you Exalted Cyclops Nakamura. I mean, you'd end up with them in reed skirts, dancing around a cooking pot with Captain Picard in it.

The problem is that the accusations with the black planet are vague. Kind of like the Ferengi, that sort of stuff could apply to a lot of people. With the treatment of the Irish, it's a much more conscious, direct sort of ridicule. Unless I'm somehow unaware of some specific stereotypes.

>>59168
It's not a zero sum game. Star Trek *was* the leading edge of diversity, because it took care to represent a lot of different groups among the cast. It *was* on the leading edge of race relations because it put those groups in non-subservient roles. The first interracial kiss on TV broke a lot of taboos, to the point that some people in the Southern United States didn't air the episode.

Stereotypes or not, they don't detract from that. They don't magically cancel out what the show also did. That's kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Rather they are just there, existing in the same space, because change and understanding come gradually.

Also, Gene had everything fever. The man was a walking erection. There's this anecdote about him comforting a woman during a plane crash, and I'm pretty sure he was just trying to get into the mile high club before his ticket expired.
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Keiko O'Brien - Mon, 08 May 2017 01:07:46 EST ID:N5HqGJMh No.59173 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59166
I think it's more about the whole ensemble. Like that backlit soundstage with rubber palm fronds.

Code of Honor is a clear example of early TNG trying to pull TOS shenanigans with outlandishly on the nose commentary on human culture. It's literally on the same level as the Yankee vs Communist episode.

Compared to that, the Ferengi aren't really so much a racial stereotype as they are a stereotype stereotype. They're simply a representation of the flaws inherent in hardcore capitalism. They're as American as they are Jewish stereotypes.

And yeah. Up The Long Ladder sure is more of that TOS style far too on the nose, not nearly allegorical commentary.

I just think Roddenberry was trying to keep the legacy of his original series intact over actually going back to his original ideals in creating the series. Pandering to what he thought his audience was when TNG was literally for the next generation. As awful as it is to say this, it wasn't bad for the show that he died.
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Keiko O'Brien - Mon, 08 May 2017 01:17:38 EST ID:N5HqGJMh No.59174 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59173
Also the director of Code of Honor was fired and replaced. Probably because even Gene Roddenberry knew that episode sucked and made them look shitty in the early days of their first season.
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Lt. JG Nog - Mon, 08 May 2017 05:34:55 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59176 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59173
To be fair, I do think it's a little edgy to say it's not bad Gene died. He was far from a perfect man, but he wasn't a bad sort. As I understand it, the problems with early TNG stemmed from more than just Gene. Together with Gene taking a less active role, you have stuff like Ron Moore joining the show, and the showrunner for season two being booted out. A show like this is always a collaborative effort, so just like one man won't make the show, one man won't break it. Trek fans are often harsh, and I've heard multiple times that TNG and DS9 needs two seasons to get in shape. But season 2 of TNG is much, much better than season 1, and has many episodes that are exemplary of good TNG. Having recently rewatched the first two seasons of DS9, I am of the opinion that it starts strong, and I found both seasons very easy to watch. In fact, now I'm in season 3 I'm seeing a stretch of episodes that I think just aren't very good.

Season 1 of TNG was bad. Very bad. And part of that had to do with Gene Roddenberry, and I do think him retiring was better for the show overall. But I think the real meat is in DS9. That show would have given the man a stroke if he hadn't been dead already, from what I hear about him. DS9 couldn't have happened with Gene alive.
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Senator Vreenak - Mon, 08 May 2017 07:03:46 EST ID:K6pRQ8/j No.59177 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59176
Genes whole problem was that he didn't want conflict to be the driving part of the plot. No intercrew drama, no war, diplomatic solutions only. Problem was there is only one picard and even TNG showed corrupt star fleet guys. He was just a crazy old man that probably did way too many drugs in the 60-70s. However the long arc shit killed the crab and gene wouldnt stand for that shit.
>>
Darien Wallace - Mon, 08 May 2017 09:26:59 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59178 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59170

>race

>culture

Part of the problem is that we are mincing words a little bit.

Let me agree with your point, but still stick to my position that Code of Honor is more racist than Up the Long Ladder.

Then let me follow up by saying that it is not very intelligent to rank oppressions.

So I agree with no one, not even myself. Thanks 1701.
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Lt. JG Nog - Mon, 08 May 2017 10:47:16 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59180 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59178
"Race" is basically a meaningless term, anyway. And it has fooled people into thinking that the mechanics of racism only function along the lines white-black-yellow. Ethnicity is a better concept.

My mother is African, so she travels to Africa a lot. One of her anecdotes is about two Kilimanjaro porters asking her why she was talking to some other dude. She asked what the problem was, and they said he is of X tribe, and everyone of X tribe is an idiot. How do they expect someone to tell which tribe another person is from? I don't have a fucking clue.

But that's kind of how I approach the comparison. In terms of the mechanism of racism, I'd say Up The Long Ladder is much more overt. Everyone involved knew exactly what they were doing, and probably thought it as OK with reasoning such as "it's more of a storybook representation" or whatnot. But that's the same justification for minstrel show type deals, and we've basically agreed as a society that being whimsical is not a good justification to misrepresent people, especially in a negative light. I do not see that same overt and misguided attitude in Code of Honor. The people in Code of Honor don't correspond with one, clearcut black stereotype, as far as I'm aware. I read or saw a review where someone pointed out that them bashing their sticks together instead of clapping is a racist representation of black people, but that's something I've never -ever- heard in relation with black stereotypes. When I saw it, I just interpreted as your typical early sci-fi thing where the aliens need to do *something* to not appear too human in their customs.

In short, I think Code of Honor is much more accidentally offensive. It's not mean-spirited. I consider Up The Long Ladder to be consciously offensive. So while I'm cutting people involved in Code of Honor some slack for trying to do something and failing miserably, I come down on the people involved in Up The Long Ladder because they damn well should have known better, especially when I imagine the dour expression Colm Meany must have had the entire time they were filming that abortion of an episode.

Though, I also think I'm harsher on Up The Long Ladder because it did a bundle more wrong. It has the Enterprise crew emotionlessly executing their own clones with hand phasers, portrays both women and substane abuse insensitively, and actually has the crew all but force a woman to "mate" with others against her own will. For the greater good.

Up The Long Ladder is just really, really shit, especially in the context of Star Trek and all it has tried to do. And if it weren't for the fact that they cast a really attractive woman as the stereotypical Irish fury and the fact that she looks really hot when she's trying to hump Riker (it was Riker, right?), the episode wouldn't have a single redeeming feature.

I don't get offended easily. Up The Long Ladder legit offended me.

Agh, well, sorry for ranting. I just really fucking hate that episode. I'd rather sit through Threshold and Shades of Grey back to back than watch Up The Long Ladder again.
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Mon, 08 May 2017 14:45:02 EST ID:N5HqGJMh No.59181 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59177
Gene would have been a very positive influence on Voyager IMO. But yeah, he would have been kryptonite to DS9.
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Kayron - Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:36 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59246 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Paramount releases first official photo from STD

>its two chicks in Star Wars costumes standing in front of a green screened mountain
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Former Gul Rusot - Wed, 17 May 2017 11:26:32 EST ID:3bunwxei No.59248 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59246
At least it's something...?
>>
Stonn - Wed, 17 May 2017 11:27:54 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.59249 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59246
hahahaha what a pile of shit
>>
Lursa - Wed, 17 May 2017 16:03:12 EST ID:WVrpSik6 No.59254 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59246
Well, it's been rumored the head of CBS legit doesn't know the diffrence between Star Wars and Star Trek.
>>
Captain Rixx - Wed, 17 May 2017 16:59:04 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59255 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59246
ST proving you wrong every time you think things couldn't get worse
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Porthos - Wed, 17 May 2017 17:31:41 EST ID:aGXOTlyw No.59258 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59246
>heavily dressed women in hijabs
Somewhere in space Gene is crying
>>
Dr. Lewis Zimmerman - Wed, 17 May 2017 18:00:30 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.59259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59246
>Star Wars
They're wearing a cloak that would be appropriate for a desert you imbecile.
Star Wars doesn't have a copyright on sand.
God damn you guys are so TRIGGERED happy.
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Captain Rixx - Wed, 17 May 2017 18:05:30 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59260 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59259
This is how the Federation dresses for the desert.
Those outfits look in no way like military uniforms. They do however look exactly like Rey's getup from TFA. Unless they're undercover as natives or something, I'm pissed.
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Dr. Lewis Zimmerman - Wed, 17 May 2017 18:38:44 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.59261 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59260
Idk man, it's not like they ripped it directly from star wars, but I have only seen the movies once so maybe I'm wrong.
Overall I don't think that trailer was that bad. Though it looks a bit overly serious. It looks like it has done away with 100% of the campyness which I know some people will hate. I think in that regard it can still be alright, but it will turn a lot of people off.
The klingons look fucking retarded. No idea what they were thinking there...
Honestly I don't see why everyone hates the ship design so bad. I don't think it looks that bad. It kinda looks like a cross between NX-01 and NCC-1701.
That whole thing with the bridge crew member that has some special ability to sense death ahead of time is silly also. But all that being said, a lot of the cast is pretty good. It could be alright. It's probably not gonna be great, most likely not in season 1. Idk, 🎵I've Got Faith🎵 that it will hopefully grow into something half decent. These guys really don't know what they're doing, they're winging it, and maybe once they get some feedback and try some stuff out, they'll get a better idea of what works. Maybe they can even work something into the plot that will fix the Klingon appearance.
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M'ret - Wed, 17 May 2017 20:08:07 EST ID:YX6hX83Z No.59262 Ignore Report Quick Reply
New Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dxe_ugmIVM

Those Klingons...
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Broca - Wed, 17 May 2017 21:18:54 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.59263 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59262
it's like CBS bought all the leftover unused orc costumes from LOTR and said, "Put em in space!"
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Dejar - Wed, 17 May 2017 21:41:53 EST ID:1N2CNdZ1 No.59265 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'll give it a shot, and probably enjoy it

>>59260
hah those don't look like uniforms either. I swear, yall bellyache over every little thing
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Natima Lang - Wed, 17 May 2017 21:46:58 EST ID:zjSOHbiO No.59266 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59262
This looks awful. Seems to take it's cues from nutrek more than anyone else. Acting is terrible, the captain is totally uninspiring and it's clear she was just hired for her diversity factor rather than any acting ability. People have said that about Sisko but I think that Brooks' over the top delivery was suitable to his character in the same way that Shatner's ham seems so right for Captain Kirk.

But I'm just getting nothing inspiring from chinese wise captain lady or the captain, who it seems is maybe half vulcan?
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Emperor Sompek - Wed, 17 May 2017 21:52:14 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.59267 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59266
And you're gleaming all of that from the 3 seconds that the captain talked in the trailer?
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Willie Hawkins - Wed, 17 May 2017 22:18:56 EST ID:WVrpSik6 No.59268 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59266
If I recall, the Chinese captain isn't the one on Discovery, she's on another ship that shows up here and there.

I... think. Lord knows what the plan is now.
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Willie Hawkins - Wed, 17 May 2017 22:19:48 EST ID:WVrpSik6 No.59269 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59262
>This video is not available.


Huh.
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Natima Lang - Wed, 17 May 2017 23:14:30 EST ID:zjSOHbiO No.59272 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59267
If you can't get a decent impression of someone from hearing them speak a few phrases you might have autism.

As an example, the moment Picard opens his mouth you know he has gravitas. You don't need to listen to him more than 3 seconds to do that.
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Emperor Sompek - Thu, 18 May 2017 00:51:16 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.59274 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59272
I think you have that backwards. Hearing one line and making a complete judgement is pretty autistic. I'm not defending her, I'm just saying that your statement is ridiculous. We know exactly jack shit about her, except that she was talking about giving the black chick from TWD command.
Shit like this is part of why they don't listen to fan input. Some of you guys are so ridiculously autistic that there is no pleasing you and that you will get upset about the most mundane nonsensical shit.
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M'ret - Thu, 18 May 2017 01:09:44 EST ID:YX6hX83Z No.59276 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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It visually looks weird but I'll still watch it.
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Ensign Miral Paris - Thu, 18 May 2017 01:43:34 EST ID:2w/fhyvv No.59278 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59269

Try here: http://www.space.ca/star-trek-discovery-official-trailer/
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Kira Taban - Thu, 18 May 2017 07:32:14 EST ID:o8h1WZ8D No.59279 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59276
Despite my constant bitching about it, I'm willing to give it a chance. It may be good. There's a high chance it won't be especially since it's yet another FUCKING PREQUEL JESUS FUCK WHY but hey I'd love eat crow.

But fuck the CBS All Access bullshit. Seriously.
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Former Gul Rusot - Thu, 18 May 2017 09:33:03 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59281 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I didn't make it 10 seconds into the trailer.

Looks like a complete and utter failure.

Meanwhile the comedy knock-off actually manages to capture my attention.

Sigh.
>>
KC Hunter - Thu, 18 May 2017 09:41:01 EST ID:Wd8rz2aM No.59282 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Looks like a lot of you have some Ls to eat, as far as them having very little film shot and the show being unlikely to come out.

Also, how about we stop actively trying to find reasons to despise the thing before it's even come out?
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Ensign Vorik - Thu, 18 May 2017 09:52:47 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59285 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well, this looks resoundingly meh.

First off, it looks like it's taking its inspiration from JJTrek. In fact, a lot of the stuff in this trailer reminded me of what I've seen of the JJTrek video game. Which was your typical insipid, buggy mess that gets thrown on the market to catch a few extra bucks. It also redesigned the Gorn to be completely not unique or fun anymore.

And why the fuck the prequel thing again? Why this big font bullshit about "ten years before Kirk"? It doesn't seem to be borrowing *anything* from TOS. This looks like a super serious arc-driven show with clean visuals. This looks like the antithesis to TOS.

I don't know. Maybe it will be exciting television. But it doesn't look like it'll be Trek. I don't think it'll be as nuanced, as smart, or as fun. It's hard to tell from a trailer like this, but its entire style puts me off.
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Admiral Hayes - Thu, 18 May 2017 11:33:23 EST ID:VPc8h94e No.59286 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59281
LOL Seth McFarlane's show looks more like star trek by far on the visuals.

I dunno if this trailer is just horrible but fuck. All this lens flare, positively DARK sets. ZERO klingons have hair, facial or otherwise.

Meanwhile MacFarlane's show nails the uniforms as well. Split the difference between the lighting on the two shows and you have Deep Space Nine. Turn off the dark plz.
>>
Helena Rozhenko - Thu, 18 May 2017 11:41:26 EST ID:xkwm0uRC No.59288 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59267
The word you're looking for is "gleaning"
>>
Legate Turrel - Thu, 18 May 2017 15:58:10 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59289 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This trailer just confirms every horrible thing we've been saying from the start of this thread (and the other Discovery thread, RIP.) It's NuTrak the show. Lens flares everywhere, no regard for design continuity, no regard for the continuity in general! (This obviously is the end of the original Trek continuity. No matter how much they say it's in the old universe, there is no way you can reconcile the Klingons we just saw with the Klingons we already have.)
It makes a point to talk about how they're 'shooting first' when the Federation doesn't. So we know it's going to be a NuTrak brainless violence romp. It's all grim and dark and grimdark, no spirit of inspiration or exploration or discovery -- (or comradery, fellowship, a sense of adventure, basically it resembles Star Trek in that there is a space ship, and there are Vulcans, and they're talking about Klingons.)

I swear people nowadays will say anything is good if the trailer is cut right with the right music and pacing. At this point, though, it doesn't even matter if it's going to be good or not. What are we going to do about our continuity? It's clearly about to get stomped on. Are we going to have to have three canons we talk about, 'Roddenberry/Bermantrek', 'JJTrek' and now what? 'Discotrash?'
>>
Sarah Sisko - Thu, 18 May 2017 19:24:43 EST ID:NPEkgCO2 No.59292 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Pre-TOS
>>
Khan Noonien Singh - Thu, 18 May 2017 21:30:07 EST ID:NNu0rHAt No.59293 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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This was basically my reaction through the whole trailer
But for real, I'm holding judgement until it fully comes out
but it looks like shit right now ;_;
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Minister Kuvak - Thu, 18 May 2017 23:52:17 EST ID:Wd8rz2aM No.59298 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59295
>I can't stand the gook accent on the captain.
I don't think Star Trek is for you.
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Vic Fontaine - Fri, 19 May 2017 00:54:59 EST ID:U9OytMf9 No.59301 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59289
>>59289

>Discotrash

Signed sealed and delivered. You named the new metaverse.
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Kang - Fri, 19 May 2017 03:53:51 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59302 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56838
Yeah, I just watched the trailer for the McFarlane thing.

It looks better. I'm not saying that because I'm bitter. I'm saying that because it actually looks funny and seems to be much more aware of the nature of Star Trek. That is, the Star Trek we know. I figure McFarlane is a big fan, because he did a Trek episode of Family Guy, and one character in American Dad is basically Patrick Stewart.

Honestly, it's pretty weird that we can have a comedy show that's making fun of tropes in proper Trek while official Trek looks nothing like Trek.

Also, Bashir's dad is in McFarlane's trailer.
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Tora Ziyal - Fri, 19 May 2017 10:58:04 EST ID:WVrpSik6 No.59304 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59302
>Also, Bashir's dad is in McFarlane's trailer.

THATS who he is. That was driving me nuts.
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T'Les - Fri, 19 May 2017 23:44:48 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59313 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59311

I think that Yeoh is a decent actress.

But in the trailer she is sitting on her captains chair as if it is going to eat her, or she has a stick up her ass. I had this whole thing my head about her being a sentient stick, up some poor humans ass, and that would explain the way she is sitting.

But it is more likely that she is doing her best to act in a total shit storm of horrible. She just looks uncomfortable. Like those test scenes of Nicole Janeway. Just wrong, bad. She looks like a queen sitting on a throne, not a captain.
>>
Lwaxana Troi - Sun, 21 May 2017 17:42:11 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.59330 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59329
I was the one who called him autistic. But I had a point. How are producers gonna get valid criticism when trekkies give so many ridiculously trivial criticisms. They'd have to wade through a sea of silly bullshit to find some good criticism. Albeit there is plenty to criticize in the trailer, but saying that they already know the captain is gonna be shit because of 1 line, and saying that she's not gonna live up to Picard is fucking ridiculous. Of course she isn't, and you're a dipshit for making a judgement based on one line of text.
Also, some of the bridge crew looks silly, but there's no way that the guy who can sense death will be as fucking obnoxious as Neelix. Trek has never been perfect, you guys see everything through rose colored glasses. All of the shows started with flaws and you guys are gonna condemn Star Trek to death by your ridiculous criticisms.
For fucks sake just go with the flow.
>>
Timothy Lang - Sun, 21 May 2017 20:24:11 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59334 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59330
>blahblahblah if you don't blindly swallow what already looks and smells like shit you're mentally deficient

I've heard it all before, and it's always been bullshit. This might surprise you, but after a lifetime of consuming media most people develop a keen sense for what they do and do not like. A trailer is put together painstakingly to get across a clear point in order to attract an intended audience. Nothing in that trailer resembles classic Star Trek. And assuming that something will be what you want despite all signs pointing to the contrary is the definition of madness.

It doesn't look "not perfect". It doesn't look like the Captain will not be as good as Picard. We're not seeing things through rose colored glasses. In fact, that's exactly what you are doing. Irrationally, you hold hope that this will be just like the old stuff and piss on people for pointing out the obvious.

The trailer doesn't look good. Don't hold us hostage to your wishful thinking.
>>
Private W Woods - Sun, 21 May 2017 22:38:16 EST ID:Wd8rz2aM No.59335 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59334
This thread is a feedback loop of negativity. No matter how good the trailer was, it was always going to get a negative reaction here. A week ago the consensus was that they barely have any footage shot and the thing would never be made. Now the trailer is out and every little thing about it is supposedly the absolute worst, and a single line is enough to dismiss the new captain as garbage.

Nah, the trailer's perfectly fine. There's a large difference between wishful thinking and not hating something based on rumours, literally nothing, and then a single trailer.
>>
Admiral Cartwright - Mon, 22 May 2017 00:00:29 EST ID:zjSOHbiO No.59337 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59335
I'm the guy you called an autist.

>>59334
Summed it all up pretty nicely.

Basically, you're free to think this won't be shit and marvel at our shit detecting intuition from such a limited dataset. However I reserve the right to say "atodaso" when it inevitably ends up being shit.
>>
Chulak - Mon, 22 May 2017 04:47:19 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59343 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59334
>classic star trek
What is classic star trek? TOS? TNG? DS9? VOY? I'm sure you're not gonna say ENT.
They're all vastly different brands. They all have their own unique flavors and themes, bad and good. Some lean more towards the bad, but they're all enjoyable imo. Voyager and ENT had horrible starts, bad writing and bad cast but still had great episodes and a lot of potential. The potential is in the Trek universe, which this series takes place in.

Also, this trailer doesn't seem that well put together. It didn't have any substance to it at all. There was no real hint at a plot except that it involved klingons. The point is that we're not getting much of the picture at all. And to make a total judgement based on that tiny piece of the picture is silly.

It's not wishful thinking. It's me trying to keep an open mind. I have a lot to be negative about it for. All the rumors and corporate meddling etc. But that's not enough to come out with a judgement for the show.

The way you're talking about it makes it seem like you're not even gonna be capable of giving a decent judgement of the show after it comes out. You've already made up your mind. And in that way, imo, you're doing trek a dis service by not even giving this a chance. Yeah you can say you're doing it a service by blocking out the Nu Trek garbage or whatever some people want to call it but it's not JJ Trek. It may have taken some cues from JJ Trek, hopefully drew a few good things from stuff that worked, and taken cues from stuff that didn't. But I didn't see 1000 lens flares in the trailer and they didn't blow up the ship 300 times so I don't know if they took too much from JJ.
>>
Timothy Lang - Mon, 22 May 2017 08:03:14 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59347 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59335
It absolutely confounds me that you're coming down on people for voicing their opinion on a trailer. It's a fucking trailer. That's what they're for. If you're so concerned about this shit, don't tell us to stop talking about it, tell the producers to not put out trailers.

I really dislike this attitude of parading ignorance as a virtue. I've seen trailers before. I know TV. And guess what? When something has a trailer like this, I generally don't like the product. I mean, if you want a suspense movie, are you going to blindly go for something by Micheal Bay? No, you're not, because Micheal Bay is the dude who does explosion movies.

This is what people are saying: "This trailer does not look good, and I do not think I will enjoy the actual product". And after that, they talk about the specifics of why it doesn't look good. That's not a feedback of negativity. That's you being a gatekeeper for this show. If people didn't talk about the shit you mention, they wouldn't be talking about anything. So you're basically telling Star Trek fans to not talk about the new Star Trek show, because any negative criticism amounts to "hate".

>>59343
Look, it's pretty clear that TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and even ENT were made by the same line of people, in the same tradition. All but ENT being produced continuously. And by ENT, that tradition had become pretty diluted on its own. Now we've had a sizable gap without any Trek, save for JJTrek. This is an entirely new product.

And you both use "it might not be total crap, just wait" as an argument. That alone should tell you how bad things look. This discussion isn't going on in the Orville thread, after all.
>>
Captain Shelby - Mon, 22 May 2017 09:44:34 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59348 Ignore Report Quick Reply
daily reminder that when STD came out, there was a literal viral spam army posting every day about how STD was a great film and the fandom sucked and just didn't like anything.

this went as far as Orci himself shit posting an angry rant about how he knew star trek, and we didn't, so there. Or something.

This is probably just a viral push from paramount.

This show is obviously garbage. If you can't tell that from the trailer you are either under the age of ascension or a total Pakled.

>>59343
>>59340
>>59339
>>59335
>>
Chulak - Mon, 22 May 2017 13:27:06 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59354 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59347
Nobody is coming down on anyone for voicing their opinion.
I was giving you guys shit for being so negative and sounding like old men who's brand of soda pop changed their recipe and even though the new recipe is "OK" but not as good you guys constantly rant about how horrible the new flavor is, and how great it was back in the day.
Just like everyone loves to rant about how bad JJ Trek movies were, as if the whole entirety of the TNG movies never existed and as if Trek movies had a spotless record.
You guys need to take a chill pill.
And they're not in the same tradition, they're all vastly different, the only similarities in all of those shows is that they are in the Star Trek universe.
And no they weren't produced continuously, there was like 20 years between TOS and TNG.
And I was arguing a few specific points that people were criticizing in the trailer, if you cared to read back before replying to me.
And I never used that argument, it's called trying to keep an open mind and not being so negative and nitpicking ridiculous shit.
>>
Dr. Mora Pol - Mon, 22 May 2017 13:34:11 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59355 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59335
Imagine, people in a thread relevant to an aspect of a subject are posting about that aspect in the board dedicated to that subject. The very temerity! I guess when a new wrestleMcwrestle drops on /wooo/, they just calmly acknowledge the fact that it has been released, and never offer any commentary or criticism. What rubes we are, for discussing things!

Also, you're perfectly free to like STD, just like you're perfectly free to like JJTrek. You don't actually have to do what everyone else tells you you should do. But if you like JJTrek, other Trekkies are perfectly free to call you a dumbass. That's just life.
>>
Chulak - Mon, 22 May 2017 13:48:58 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59356 Ignore Report Quick Reply
My point is that the trailer isn't nearly as bad as you guys make it out to be.
1) In all likeliness they didn't just retcon the Klingons to look like that, there's probably some plot behind it.
2) Yeah it's overly dramatic but that's not the end of the world. TNG and DS9 were overly dramatic at times.
3) ENT and VOY started off terrible and still had some greatness.
4) The Klingon Sarcophagus ship probably has something to do with the storyline and explanation of the weird Klingon appearance.
5) I doubt the "I can sense death" guy will be as bad as Neelix when that character first started, which was by far the worst bridge crew ever in trek.
6) The only thing the captain said was that it was time for that other chick to get a command of her own. I don't think that's enough to gleam anything at all really about how she will be as a trek captain.
There are a few others but I'm tired.
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Hadley - Mon, 22 May 2017 14:38:58 EST ID:PoJIX+gO No.59357 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59348

Meh, I'm of the opinion that trailers are not a reliable way to gauge how good an end product will be.
>>
K'Ehleyr - Mon, 22 May 2017 14:48:34 EST ID:Y8I8Jhmh No.59358 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59357
A trailer is their best pitch. It is what they think will best hit their target audience. It is not the final product but it is a reflection of what the producers believe their product is.

It's not particularly reliable but it's by far the best source there is out there. It should be the starting point, definitely not the be all and end all, but definitely the biggest bit of the basis for your expectations.

If it didn't dampen your optimism then well.. it should have been hopeful pessimism by now anyway so there's no saving you.
>>
Private W Woods - Mon, 22 May 2017 18:40:31 EST ID:Wd8rz2aM No.59360 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You can't pass what happens in this thread as legitimate criticism.

>>59281
>I didn't make it 10 seconds into the trailer.

>>59266
>the captain is totally uninspiring and it's clear she was just hired for her diversity factor rather than any acting ability
The above opinion is expressed based on three seconds of dialogue

>>59246
>>59258
>Women wearing robes are literally Star Wars Muslims


The problem isn't criticism, criticise away. But you really can't be blind to the fact that the criticisms in this thread are over-the-top and based on very little. This weakens any legitimate criticisms you have because they're grouped in with ridiculous ass-sores.

When you're so prejudiced against something that you criticise it based on data you don't have, you're often wrong. Just look at the consensus a month ago that there was very little footage shot.
>>58887
>>59103
>>59106
>>59107
>>59109
>>
Wesley Crusher - Mon, 22 May 2017 20:12:16 EST ID:PoJIX+gO No.59363 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59358

Why do you think I was optimistic in the first place?
>>
Herbert Rossoff - Tue, 23 May 2017 00:32:48 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59365 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59360

>are over-the-top and based on very little

No.

They have the fucking star logo as their star fleet logo.

They don't care enough about star trek to get even the most minimal thing correct.

This show is trash, the producers are trash, and the actors that have contributed to it have damaged their careers.
>>
Hugh - Tue, 23 May 2017 01:02:02 EST ID:l6M1bqG4 No.59366 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59365
>no
>but actually yes
>>
Furel - Tue, 23 May 2017 06:18:31 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59369 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59354
Here's what I'm seeing: People voice their opinions, and you tell them that they are wrong and should shut up. Maybe you are the one who should take a chill pill.

You're putting a lot of words in people's mouths, and making assumptions on that. People rant about the JJTrek movies because they don't follow the Star Trek formula. The TNG movies might be bad by Star Trek standards, but they're still Star Trek. This new show is the same problem. Just because it has the name "Star Trek" on there doesn't mean it's actually like Star Trek. Kind of like how the RoboCop cartoon was nothing like the movie.

>And they're not in the same tradition, they're all vastly different, the only similarities in all of those shows is that they are in the Star Trek universe.

But that's just not true. There was huge crosspollination between the main block of Trek shows, with the same people working on it, and even the same props and sets being used.

>And no they weren't produced continuously, there was like 20 years between TOS and TNG.

I made a typo, smartass. I meant TOS instead of ENT.

>And I was arguing a few specific points that people were criticizing in the trailer, if you cared to read back before replying to me.

Sure. That's not what you were saying what I responded too, though. My gripe is the whole "don't judge the trailer on anything" attitude. If you want to discuss people's points, fine by me. Because frankly, all the SJW arguments don't hold water. Not saying some might not come true, because I have zero faith in STD right now, but there's not enough to go on.

>And I never used that argument, it's called trying to keep an open mind and not being so negative and nitpicking ridiculous shit.

No, keeping an open mind is trying to see people's reason for making an argument instead of trying to put them down as negative. Maybe they have a reason to be negative. I see plenty reasons, but you're slapping it all down with "but it's called Star Trek". If you went "but there are some Trek veterans working on this" maybe people would say "yeah, that's right". But you're insisting there's no real difference between this and other Trek. And that's just not the way a lot of us see it. We see a radical departure from what we know as Star Trek.
>>
Lt. George Primmin - Tue, 23 May 2017 09:05:42 EST ID:+L6e34l6 No.59370 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59369
>Because frankly, all the SJW arguments don't hold water.
Could you explain how you're using SJW in this context?
>>
Herbert Rossoff - Tue, 23 May 2017 09:14:25 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59371 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Pedantic, pretentious.

This is a trailer for a show no one will watch.
>>
Furel - Tue, 23 May 2017 10:40:27 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59373 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59370
I mean the concerns that this will suck because it's pandering to SJW's. I do expect a certain level of pandering, but I don't think that could make Trek suck. The captain could be a Chrislamic genderqueer aboriginal, in fact the captain could be not human at all, and if this were actual Star Trek, it wouldn't matter. Star Trek has had terrorists, war criminals, and even rapists in positions of sympathy. So I think a show following the Trek example will be able to do the same with Asians and gays.

But I think they won't be following the Trek example at all. Just putting "diversity" on the bridge won't hurt Trek. Doing it and thinking you're done, that's what hurts Trek.
>>
Lt. George Primmin - Tue, 23 May 2017 12:10:11 EST ID:+L6e34l6 No.59374 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59373
Oh yeah, those concerns are absurd. You can't both complain about Trek pushing a social justice agenda and also complain about it not being true to what Star Trek is.
>>
Prosecutor Orak - Tue, 23 May 2017 15:49:06 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59375 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59369

TLDR it all but Whatever dude I never put a word into anyone's mouth, I was using this thread and a lot of other criticisms I've read on the internet. But I don't care.
Pre judge it if you want to. Idgaf.
>>
Prosecutor Orak - Tue, 23 May 2017 15:53:09 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59376 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59359
Retconning is changing the plot. It's not changing if this part of history was never mentioned. If they ran into some group of genetically modified klingons pre-TOS, how does that change the plot from TOS?
>>
Furel - Tue, 23 May 2017 18:11:53 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59377 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59375
Yes yes, fancy words mean that I'm wrong. Whatevs bruh.
>>
Ensign Hogan - Tue, 23 May 2017 22:00:56 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59378 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59376
>>
Tavek - Tue, 23 May 2017 22:18:07 EST ID:+L6e34l6 No.59380 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59378
Your definition doesn't conflict with what they said.
>>
Ensign Hogan - Tue, 23 May 2017 22:59:30 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59381 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59380

attaching new significance to the Klingons, despite whatever hackneyed "lost battalion" plot crap, is most definitely retconning.
>>
Tavek - Tue, 23 May 2017 23:07:11 EST ID:+L6e34l6 No.59382 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59381
Klingons are an alien race, not an event.
By your standard it would be impossible to have a prequel without it retconning something. Which is because you're misusing 'retcon'.
>>
Roy Ritterhouse - Tue, 23 May 2017 23:45:54 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59383 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59376
'The Cage' takes place the same year as this show, so it's retcon by definition, in every single aspect of its being.
>>
Tavek - Wed, 24 May 2017 00:06:11 EST ID:+L6e34l6 No.59384 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59383
There weren't any Klingons in The Cage. And you really don't have anywhere near enough information to know if it's a retcon or not.
>>
Ensign Hogan - Wed, 24 May 2017 00:20:34 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59385 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59384

I have a lot of trouble believing you are not paid by Paramount to post this nonsense.
>>
Grand Nagus Gint - Wed, 24 May 2017 04:00:09 EST ID:WVrpSik6 No.59386 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59385
CBS, Paramount doesn't have the TV rights anymore.
>>
Roy Ritterhouse - Wed, 24 May 2017 15:47:31 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59392 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59384
What are you talking about? No shit there were no Klingons in 'The Cage.' What makes Discovery a retcon vis a vis the fact we already have 'The Cage':
>>the uniforms
>>the technology
>>the sequence of events
Why is the Enterpise, a relatively new and young ship, considered one of the flagships of Starfleet, equipped with a completely different set of technology, and her crew wearing a completely different style of uniform, than the Discovery, which is operating at the exact same time. That's actually not a retcon in itself, because in order for it to be a retcon, there has to be an explanation for *why* it's that way. Presently, it's just an error, wrong, not the way it's supposed to be. In film analysis it would be described as a 'continuity error.'
>>
Dr. Denara Pel - Thu, 25 May 2017 03:53:10 EST ID:R2sX8/fG No.59396 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59392
I dunno, man. I don't have that information. Nor do you.

Let's find out this fall on Netflix and CBS. :)
>>
James Moriarty - Thu, 25 May 2017 12:19:42 EST ID:Mw2ViAbq No.59404 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59396

>I dunno, man. I don't have that information. Nor do you.

I have that information. So do you.

THE WRITERS ARE IDIOTS. THE SHOW IS SHIT.

Pretty easy to understand.
>>
Q - Thu, 25 May 2017 21:52:35 EST ID:hxAGekRO No.59417 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Recounting Star Trek Discovery developments, rumours and wondering if the show is up shit's Creek without a phaser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I3y3_QmBsQ
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Fri, 26 May 2017 01:23:16 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59424 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59396
Sorry my dude. I have eyes. You can't tell me that two things that look completely different are the same. What kind of drugs do you have to be on to actually say to me 'you can't tell that the uniforms in the discovery trailer are different than the uniforms in the cage?'

>>reminds us of officially designated viewing locations and times
Are you sure you're not a CBS shill?
>>
Rear Admiral Gregory Quinn - Fri, 26 May 2017 01:43:59 EST ID:WVrpSik6 No.59425 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59417
Holy shit, fucking Abrams man. What an ego trip.
>>
Lt. Chu'lak - Sat, 27 May 2017 04:36:54 EST ID:FjZ9V2nx No.59453 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59425
Seriously! Trying to cancel all merchandise of the prime time line is just insane. I'm really starting to hate the guy.
>>
Erika Benteen - Sat, 27 May 2017 11:54:29 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59457 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59417

>much to the dismay
>>
Vice Admiral Nakamura - Sun, 28 May 2017 06:47:27 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.59471 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59417
Star Trek Beyond went through a similar kind of production hell. It came out watchable and inoffensive though a little lame as you sit with it.


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