420chan now has a web-based IRC client available, right here
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the float Name#Password
[*]Italic Text[/*]
[**]Bold Text[/**]
[~]Taimapedia Article[/~]
[%]Spoiler Text[/%]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace text[/pre]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists


Community Updates

420chan now supports HTTPS! If you find any issues, you may report them in this thread

Now Playing on /1701/tube -

Mirror universe. by Empress Janeway. - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:47:59 EST ID:3C6F7SB9 No.57668 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1484549279965.jpg -(2290378B / 2.18MB, 6493x3650) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 2290378
Should the new Star Trek series of movies ever explore the mirror universe? This has hardly been touched on. There was the one TOS ep, Enterprise, but this is not enough. I want more of the Terran Empire. I want to know what happened to the empire after a long time. What is it like in the Voyager timeline? Has a terran ship ever been transported to the delta quadrant by the Caretaker?
Vosk - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 02:18:07 EST ID:aQZi/3lR No.57669 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1484551087954.png -(442045B / 431.68KB, 1078x729) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>mirror universe

Sweet lord yes.. All the nutrek actors are actually pretty good in their own right imo and I think if done correctly it would be amazing. Possibly get to see some impressive acting with the back and forth's between the characters and their counterparts. They already established that there's different universes in the first movie.. so they could start it like they found another crazy black-wormhole thing and have them preparing to battle some giant alien ship when all the sudden it's just another enterprise.. also could have mirror khan in it that they rationally think is a bad guy at first but then he turns out to be awesome
Karr - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 03:44:22 EST ID:R+vOjj7s No.57670 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Lwaxana Troi - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 04:19:08 EST ID:UfDU6sLf No.57671 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>This has hardly been touched on.

DS9 had 5 mirror universe episodes. Once almost every season.
Silik - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 06:16:49 EST ID:VAS4PI6b No.57672 Ignore Report Quick Reply

And only one or two were good. They added nothing, and the actors got to ham it up playing evil versions of themselves. Completely throwaway.
Lwaxana Troi - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:18:27 EST ID:UfDU6sLf No.57673 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP's point was that the MU "has hardly been touched on," which is false. Whether they were good or not is beside the point.

>They added nothing, and the actors got to ham it up playing evil versions of themselves. Completely throwaway.

The same can be said of "Mirror, Mirror" and "In a Mirror, Darkly," with only the former actually being good.
B-a-r-t - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:16:39 EST ID:VAS4PI6b No.57674 Ignore Report Quick Reply

They were mercifully few and I'm glad. They were a nice diversion, that's all. I thought evil Kira Nerys was laughable.
Harry Mudd - Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:06:02 EST ID:H1A8bLAX No.57677 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The Mirror Universe worked best as a one off. I don't think they ever needed to revisit it, personally. However they did significantly between DS9 and Enterprise. That's more than enough MU for me. Do something creative with that concept like VOY Living Witness or TNG Yesterday's Enterprise (kind of).

>What is it like in the Voyager timeline?
Ever see the Mirror Universe DS9 episodes? I'd say it's pretty close to something like that.
Elim Garak - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:35:29 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57680 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1484656529761.jpg -(37675B / 36.79KB, 500x383) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

One thing I find questionable about the Mirror Universe is the rampant lesbianism. I mean I don't have a problem with it, I just find it odd that all the alternate women are bisexual. It's implied that worthless whiny bitch and Leeta are going to go at it in one episode, Kira has multiple female lovers. They're all darker, more twisted versions of themselves, so..lesbians? Whatever, I REALLY don't have a problem with the idea of Leeta and worthless whiny bitch having lesbian sex, or Kira for that matter, but it just seems odd.
Elim Garak - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:51:42 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57681 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Though come to think of it, the MU episodes are kind of trashy, just diversions, and it's not like anything else in the MU makes any sense.
Elim Garak - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:50:37 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57684 Ignore Report Quick Reply

worthless whiny bitch dax
Elim Garak - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:05:23 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57685 Ignore Report Quick Reply

e z r i dax
Commander Dolim - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 18:16:59 EST ID:UKKS3Tki No.57690 Ignore Report Quick Reply
There's wordfilters. Deal with it. Though I think cute but useless Dax fits better.

Also does jolly african-american still work?
Commander Dolim - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 18:18:17 EST ID:UKKS3Tki No.57691 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Dammit I'm sure it used to be a variant on that. The tubes filter it to jolly kazon-american I know that.
Darlene Kursky - Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:37:00 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.57698 Ignore Report Quick Reply
mirror universe just seems to have more open kinky sex stuff in general

think of all the chains and master/slave relationships and how often just everybody is kissing eachother in the mirrorU
B-a-r-t - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 04:30:50 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57701 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1484731850237.jpg -(59578B / 58.18KB, 400x217) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Jake Sisko - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 04:34:23 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57702 Ignore Report Quick Reply

it is a bit odd that in the mirror universe everyone's first priority seems to be sex, as if getting anything else done is an afterthought. It's what the characters seem to do the first time they meet each other. Sisko seems to have no problem taking Jadzia Dax on, and I can't blame him. I wonder if he put that in his report when he got back.
Lt. Cmdr. Argyle - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 05:04:53 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.57703 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Because in America, Sex for pleasure = Evil. Remember, Mirror Kira wanted to have sex with everyone, not rape them.
B-a-r-t - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 10:13:45 EST ID:468MbYUA No.57704 Ignore Report Quick Reply

>Because in America, Sex for pleasure = Evil.

I always heard that, but never believed it. I know American censors seem to take issue with sexuality more than violence, but it still seems weird.
Roger Lemli - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 14:58:42 EST ID:xmR6+9bR No.57706 Ignore Report Quick Reply
America really is repressed though. I don't understand why, but we are. At least not as bad as places like Japan though.
B-a-r-t - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:49:08 EST ID:phT7JNDs No.57709 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Doesn't seem that way to me. Strip clubs, sex shops, porno shops, used to have porno theatres, that and sex everywhere in American TV and films, what repression???
Vekma - Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:16:51 EST ID:xmR6+9bR No.57710 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Middle America and a lot of christians are still very puritan. A lot won't even allow their kids to get sex ed, let alone really discuss it. The repression is in families, and it's not really something that can be talked about. It's kinda a double standard that it's all over TV, etc, but strip clubs and, sex shops and the like are still taboo places for most. Anyone who walks into a sex shop is regarded by most as a deviant.
Lt. Joseph Carey - Thu, 19 Jan 2017 19:54:28 EST ID:L3E9v1HE No.57715 Ignore Report Quick Reply
If they where going to do a movie or anything they'd probably downplay that a bit. I mean they can't just make the hook hey, its star trek with lots of fucking and murder. Vosk was onto the right idea, they introduced alternate universes in the movies already, they could play with this. Just have them go into a wormhole.

Now if they do it? They don't want to fall into the trappings that its just evil versions of the charcters we know. They can use this to flesh out a real universe, with compelling reasons and a lot going on. If they did it, they need to give the alternate universe substance. You can come up with good reasons for things to exist as an empire instead of a federation.

Sure, what they've done with the alternative universes so far is just use it as an easy excuse to vamp up the charcters. But you can do a lot more with it. And I think a movie would be the right place to do it. Make the alternative universe a credible and interesting place. Flesh the damn thing out I say.
Raven Overcoming Orchid !Tz0ULG.7to - Sat, 21 Jan 2017 02:24:57 EST ID:3q2kEMAP No.57723 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1484983497524.jpg -(2299849B / 2.19MB, 2400x1596) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Somehow, Enterprise has the best MU episodes.

I'd personally like to see Patrick Stewart come back as Mirror Picard, a caricature of an elderly sea admiral mad for power or something. It'd be great to have a one-off Mirror Universe movie.
Thalen - Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:20:38 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.57724 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Enterprise has the best MU episodes.
Well, other than Mirror, Mirror itself. And I honestly don't think of the DS9 episodes as being in the Mirror Universe. Just in some other kind of alternate universe.
Admiral Nechayev - Sat, 21 Jan 2017 12:17:25 EST ID:syC+oe3F No.57725 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Except, you know, that it's a major plot point that it's the same universe.
Keldar - Sat, 21 Jan 2017 16:20:29 EST ID:oB5zPqAN No.57726 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Indeed. The first DS9 mirror episode "Crossover" references the first mirror episode and Kirk's crossing.
Benny Russell - Sun, 22 Jan 2017 11:15:01 EST ID:2CjFaDB+ No.57730 Ignore Report Quick Reply
But... the entire point of DS9's MU episodes is to provide commentary on the original in the same way DS9 provides commentary on TNG. Humanity embraced being nice, and as a consequence got steamrolled by everyone else in the universe who was still evil. Which is exactly why the entire MU in DS9 is so different from the main universe.

And while I do love ENT's MU episode, DS9 had continuity between its MU episodes and used them to provide the typical shades of grey commentary that DS9 does so well. ENT's was fun, but that was it.
Lt. JG Saavik - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 10:10:22 EST ID:EmP7pF1Y No.58161 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1488381022025.jpg -(886285B / 865.51KB, 1280x905) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Of course they SHOULD! Will they ever? Pffft.

>Voyager Mirror
In my mind or how I pictured it, since the final fall of the Empire happened only recently (though plenty of planets and sectors had fallen years or even decades ago), I guess to keep rough "continuity" with the regular timeline, ISS Voyager is one of the last Terran ships launched before the Siege of Terra begins, and instead of making it to the Fleet remnants like it was supposed to, Caretaker takes it and, say, mercenaries hired to the Delta Quadrant.

I wondered, since DS9 stole Tuvok, maybe it'd be fun if Mirror Voyager got to snag a DS9 person. Who though.

>tfw this seems to be a Mirror hater thread

Oh right never mind
Latha Mabrin - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 17:39:51 EST ID:xuBcumf2 No.58164 Ignore Report Quick Reply
wait was it actually mirror voy or was it that evil versions in teh alien museum?
Major Rakal - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 19:52:23 EST ID:KikjBBjU No.58165 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Evil versions as recreations.
Guinan - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 20:41:36 EST ID:cO8e4/0q No.58167 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It's the closest VOY gets to the mirror universe, like in Yesterday's Enterprise for TNG

It's also the final canon episode chronologically, taking place ~700 years after Nemesis
Lorian - Thu, 02 Mar 2017 07:05:21 EST ID:xuBcumf2 No.58169 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Very true. It for sure felt like mirror ep at the start. Evil Kim shatters your perceptions as he becomes more gay than he already was.
Joseph Sisko - Fri, 03 Mar 2017 20:44:53 EST ID:NUbxvEoE No.58172 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The Major/Genera/Emperor/whoever Grin TNG Recuts are pretty close to a mirror universe Trek. Where everything is the most hedonistic, violent, and evil it can be, especially Picard.
Guinan - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 22:48:24 EST ID:OLPp7laY No.58194 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I hate YouTube for denying my lulz.. I need to get in touch with Grin and buy one of his DVDs, his shit is hilarious
Greskrendtregk - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 21:42:39 EST ID:EmP7pF1Y No.58236 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1489027359424.png -(2148371B / 2.05MB, 1576x886) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

While the former and the latter are both prevailing stereotypes, ultimately they are both correct and incorrect. America DOES have a legacy of sexual not quite 'repression', but certainly a bit more congruent of the concept of innocence, so not necessarily because they are anti-fun police, or that Americans are prudes. One has to understand though that innocence was a very treasured concept - not even hundreds of years ago, you were considered an adult more or less at 12-14, variously. The sexual repression may look obstentatious now, but really, globally, culture is a lot more cognizant of adolescence. Back when the Puritans formed (in a wider sense, part of the Reformation, and the European Wars of Religion), it wasn't exactly unknown poor girls could and would be prostitutes at 12, and no one in society really batted an eye. While it wasn't doctrinally part of their platform, it was part of a noble wider platform that children should have time to grow up. If anything, American moral puritanism is more a result of social gospel/revivalist movements arising in the 1800s and 1900s.

While there is an element of repressiveness, one also has to remember American has the biggest porn industry in the world by far, American popular culture is always pushing against what 'can be' shown, and in some ways is the most degenerate in the scale and depth of what can be shown.

A way to understand this would be that America largely doesn't do things in half measures. There isn't really moderation. Very dualistic, so in sense, that's why it can be both true that America is the most prudish and yet also the most libertine of the Western world.

Now, how does that relate to the Trek question? First, for any issues about sex=bad, blame Roddenberry, he gave off that light in Mirror Mirror. It's not the sex that is more often in the Mirror universe, necessarily. First though, remember, for the most part we're seeing the Terran Empire, or it's Remnants - so what is culturally endemic or left behind in their former space isn't necessarily a galactic truth. What seems more evident is that there less cutting to the chase of power dynamics, and a seemingly more upfront attitude to proclaiming desire. The scale or power is no different than our world, it's just the mode of presentation is different. If you know any couple out there in our world, and are privy to their secrets, often you know they get up to some ridiculously kinky shit. Even 'average' people. It just seems it's a bit more open in general. There's less beating around the bush. Even Terran fashion tends to reflect it, with instead of the hide-and-seek of how we dress and use our imagination to fill in the blanks in our world, there the cultural expression seems to be presenting you the goods (and thus, truth) upfront, and leaving it to you from there, yet still being presentable and functional. Both men and women's clothes express power more in the MU, and an element of mystery/danger. You can see it in the sharper angles, the shorter hemlines, strategic empty space, wider useage of capes and sashes and other nicknacks, higher collars, lower necklines, tighter fabric, etc etc. My point is it's just a different mode of presentation.

Kira is so different from regular Kira is because her circumstances are completely different. Not only was her former oppressor completely different in her life (the Terran Empire), but they had different sort of occupation than the Cardassian one, and they have held onto Bajor a lot longer than the Cardassians had, and thus had influenced it's culture more, and even without that, Bajoran culture had evolved VERY differently in the Mirror Universe - a lot less spiritual oriented. So it's no surprise why she's so different. As for Jadzia vs worthless whiny bitch, that's also easy to understand. First, they show the more ambiguous position of Trills in the Empire, as well as reflect how Trill were later additions to the Federation. So while they'd been oppressed, eventually they had gotten freedom under the Empire, so of course there's a large segment of the population of Trill loyal to the old Empire, or wanting to bring SOMETHING to take it's place since they'd formed links with all their fellow species, hence Jadzia in with the rebels. Meanwhile, not only is worthless whiny bitch being a mercenary as well as not really sold on the old Empire loyalism reflective of the Trill side that remembers the sins done to them, or those who just want to find some niche for themselves in this new order. It's also a call back to how her family is sort of shady with the law even in the main timeline. It's not that the Mirror World is opposite land, it's just sort of the title of one of the MU episodes - looking through a mirror, darkly.

Also, Japanese oppressed? Pffft.

On a side note, one of my favorite moments was seeing how even in the Mirror Universe, while it's a bit tense and adversarial, Trip and T'Pol still love each other. You can't beat that folks. Love powerful enough it punches through dimensions.

Report Post
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.