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Terms of Service by Nava - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:56:40 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58069 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Do y'all think that TOS is a little underrated on this board? I don't see many of the cast topping the lists in the Ranking or the All-Franchise Crew threads. Most of the headcanons I'm reading here don't seem to concern the series very much either (possibly cause it has so many one-off plots, but I digress.)

I'm not a trekkie by nature, I enjoy it just like any other good TV show. But I've slowly completed all the series, and came away with what I assume are the usual criticisms: everyone is so best of the best in TNG that it's hard to do conflict based in character flaw (outside of Worf), DS9 is fantastic but lacks the frontier motif that's in other Treks, VOY has its moments but is mostly mishandled, and ENT starts with a bang, then gets really boring, then good again, then shittily ended. But still the only criticism I can levy against TOS is that there are retarded 60s camp episodes - but unlike bad episodes in other series, they still charm the pants off of me.

Is my reverence for TOS just me being a casual? Cause you guys seem to enjoy it well enough, but it places like, 3rd for most of you.
>>
Michael Eddington - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:21:28 EST ID:ZYIEvzVd No.58070 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58069
>3rd place
Yeah. TOS has it's own set of charms to the rest of the treks despite having a fair amount in common. It was also made before TV writers got the hang of the format and suffers for that.

Watching TOS is a rather drastic change of pace to the other series. That's not to knock it. The other thing which is apparent even in your post is that TOS TNG and DS9 are compared then ENT and VOY.

The headcanon thing though is partly because TNG and all the stuff which follows it ties up a lot of loose ends which is where that sort of thing grows.
>>
Travis Mayweather - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 13:41:46 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.58071 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I have been trying to come up with a term or word to describe the act of discussing Star Trek as if ONLY TOS had ever been produced.

For a while I called it "hard canon" but that seems wrong.

The point is to frame a discussion (about the federation, technology, whatever) around only the rules and histories set by TOS. For instance, it seems in TOS like there is no cultural awareness of most 20th century sports, for instance. Kirk is aware of the parts of a car but can't drive it right, and so on...

Anyway, yes OP I love TOS, and I think it presents a special view of the nature of humanity.
>>
Nava - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:04:10 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58072 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58071
"Roddenberry Canon" maybe? You'd have to include early TNG but I think that would still run consistent with the "rules" set up by TOS.
>>
Cmdr. Williams - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:34:47 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.58074 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58069
TOS is great, but it's also really, really old. It lays out the formula of Trek very well, though. Character-driven science fiction that stands and falls by the chemistry between the crew. That's one thing I love about TOS. Like with TNG and DS9, it's plain as day that everyone is onboard. Everyone on the show is working on the same mission.

The camp ruins it for a lot of people. I had a friend show me the Gorn fight from Arena to laugh at, because the actor in the rubber suit is so slow. This friend has shit taste, of course, but still. A lot of people are unwilling to turn the part of their brain off that makes them see all the campy 60's stuff as something odd. One of my favorite episodes is interpuncted by, occasionally, a white gorilla showing up. And the typical "alien" costumes. In another, those aliens are supposed to be frightful warriors, but they also wear really goofy shit. But I don't see that. I see the shot with Kirk and McCoy in the foreground, hiding, and the aliens advancing up a valley. That was a good shot.

TOS is, overall, a very strong show. It has its clunkers, and its overwrought stage acting, but it's good. It's still very watchable, which is saying something for a cheap TV show that's half a century old. Oh, and the TOS movies are pretty fucking great. Even the "bad" ones. I used to be a big fan of the TNG movies, but that was probably just adolescent me talking. Somehow TNG managed to narrow its focus down to Picard and Data, but TOS opened up and gave more of the spotlight to the rest of the crew.

Something like The Undiscovered Country is a tour de force that modern movies struggle to manage. And then you have The Voyage Home in the same franchise, and it's a time travel comedy movie. That flexibility, believable, with the same characters, is astounding. And honestly, I think it needed the 60's camp in the original to achieve that. To make it seem natural for Scotty to talk into a computer mouse, Kirk to bluff about "LDS" and solve a problem with his dick, or Spock to mindmeld with whales.

I think part of TOS' problem is that they laid the groundwork. Everyone else is building on that. Tuvok is probably the best Vulcan, but that's because Russ has Spock's entire persona to work with. Every Trek engineer has traces of Scotty, every Captain traces of Kirk. It's easy to look back and say "they're kind of normal", because we've already seen them in every Trek iteration since TOS.
>>
Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 16:00:13 EST ID:J2q74jQD No.58075 Report Quick Reply
The thing about TOS is that it didn't know what Star Trek had the potential of becoming, so it doesn't have as much lore as the rest of the series. There's less to go on in terms of opinions/discussions.
>>
Katogh - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 18:36:43 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58076 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP, TOS is underrated by the fandom in general -- when you talk to people in the fandom who are also in the same age demographic to be on this board. I.e. people who grew up in the TNG era, who only would have a connection to TOS if their parents were Trekkies or they deliberately sought it out or something. If you talk to members of the fandom from the older generation, TOS is probably OVER-rated, and they still whine about shit like 'how can the captain be bald?' and 'it's not Trekking if it's a space station!' So I think it's mostly who you talk to.

Personally, TOS to me is in such a category of it's own that I don't even rank it in relation to the other productions. It IS Star Trek, everything else is just a spinoff, and while I might enjoy watching say TNG more than TOS, as a work of art and an original creative vision one is clearly the source and one is clearly the echo. I mean, almost every plotline of every episode of every subsequent series you can trace back to an idea in a particular episode of TOS.

People aren't going to like it, because that era of TV is so alien to the modern viewer -- but even the style of the TNG era productions is starting to look very out-dated, and they will soon come to be seen as 'campy' and 'unwatchable' as TOS feels to many nowadays. Once you acquire the taste though, there's nothing like it. TOS is pure Trek for those with Trek in the veins, the masses will never understand, it is only for the elite.

>>58072
>>"Roddenberry Canon"
This actually is what people call it. Some people are such purists that they only consider canon those productions which G-Rod personally signed off on to be Star Trek, so S1-2 of TOS, TNG S1-3, and movies 1-4.
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 19:26:21 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58077 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58076
Age demographic is probably a good focal point here - I was in 7th grade the year ENT ended, so, yeah. I didn't watch ENT while it was airing, and I got into Trek later through my older brother, who grew up watching it TNG/DS9.

He got into Trek in general through our parents though, who aren't really Trekkies, but watched and enjoyed TOS along the same lines as shows like Lost in Space. So I knew it as a goofy 60s space show that my parents liked, which is probably why I forgive its more embarrassing moments watching it now. I'd be curious to know if others in my age group, or just people like me who didn't watch any of the series as kids also enjoy TOS the most.
>>
Cmdr. Erika Benteen - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 20:59:31 EST ID:DnsI5ZDb No.58078 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58069
My encounter with Star Trek was kinda weird. I was aware of TNG since it was on syndication when I was in grade school but never really got into it until I started watching DS9 when it was airing on Spike during the afternoons because there was nothing else on. Then I started watching the remastered Star Trek episodes for a little bit when they were on syndication. Although I don't remember much about them until I started watching them again on BBC America, I still enjoyed TOS. I think it helped that, when I was younger, I watched a lot of other 1960s shows like Gilligan's Island. In fact, I only started getting into Star Trek seriously this year.

For the record, I'm 30 years old.

Overall though, TOS definitely has its own charm and you really have to watch it with an understanding of how TV and the series was back then. Especially the cultural backdrop of what was going on in 1960s America.

I kinda understand why someone wouldn't be able to get into it. I have a hard time getting through any old movie or TV show that's in black and white with the exception of The Twilight Zone.
>>
Torg - Tue, 21 Feb 2017 21:45:40 EST ID:0ZbRzUd0 No.58079 Ignore Report Quick Reply
dude tos is the best...well right behind tas.
and dank space niner is amazing, sisko has got to be my favorite character from all treks
>>
Turanj - Sat, 25 Feb 2017 14:49:47 EST ID:KkTIVQuu No.58129 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I grew up watching TOS marathons like on New Years or w/e. I've always enjoyed the movies far more.
>>
Turanj - Sat, 25 Feb 2017 14:51:21 EST ID:KkTIVQuu No.58130 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58079
DS9 is the least Trek of them all. The series is great nonetheless with the best secondary characters like Quark and Garak. VOY is way more Trekky and way more terrible.
>>
Ghengis Dong - Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:20:30 EST ID:x/xsaJ2n No.58139 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58077
I'm about your age, was in 8th grade when ENT ended. I grew up thinking Geordie was really cool (mostly cause his eye-thing and Reading Rainbow) but besides that knew nothing about trek. My entire family pretty much scorns sci-fi, sadly.

When I was in 8th grade until about 10th grade TV Land showed TOS in the morning before school and I grew to love it. I mostly appreciated TOS for its camp and still do (Shore Leave is my favorite episode), but as a lover of The Twilight Zone and somebody who grew up on a lot of campy television I definitely recognized something genius in TOS.

I was introduced to TNG in college and I have to say that it's a smarter and more stimulating show for the most part, but TOS is my favorite for its humor and just how wildly unexpected its plot-lines can be.

To expand, Q is my favorite character in TNG because his episodes tend to break all the rules, but in TOS the rules aren't even in place and they're constantly up to their asses in weirdness.
>>
Captain Solok - Tue, 28 Feb 2017 17:46:55 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58156 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58150
Nitpick squad, they breached the edge of the galaxy in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Charlie X was all screwed up because he was raised by Thasians.

And if you think about the position of the Federation (or even Sol IRL for that matter), it makes a lot of sense that you would be able to try to go beyond the edge of the galaxy before you would even begin to be able to explore even to the middle of the core.
Not saying TOS doesn't have more than it's share of inconsistencies, just that that's not one of them.
>>
Maihar'du - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 15:57:35 EST ID:SpkphYvS No.58162 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58130
And what makes something 'Trek'? How much it's like the original? Because really, the original, as television, isn't that great.
>>
Lt. Daniels - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 16:29:48 EST ID:tn4jH/Yl No.58163 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58162
The thing is, nothing was good from that era.

As a society we hadn't really figured out what television could be. 60's television has more of that radio play feel despite having built upon decades of prior television.

Some shows really started to get it in the 80's and 90's and ever since then we've been riding a wave that has resulted in a golden age of quality TV shows.

Babylon 5 had the right idea, a big huge story arc, an epic tale of politics and war. Babbys first Game of Thrones.
But the 24 episode season format really over-padded and hampered the effectiveness of Babylon 5.

TNG better characterizes the 24 episode monster of the weekish format of the 80's and 90's instead which really sits in the middle between our great TV sagas of today and the old ways of the 50's and 60's where broadcasting was still in its radio-stage play pupal stage.

TNG indisputably has some great episodes and great moral tales of their day. But TNG isn't actually special. It's a relic of its era. Twilight Zone on the other hand is exquisite to this day, having gotten in early on the whole television thing and hoarded most of the best stories for itself. And on the subject of Twilight Zone/Outer Limits, those reboots from the 90's weren't nearly as timeless, but Black Mirror probably will be.


I think it's entirely to TOS's credit that every time a new Star Trek Continues comes out I just have to watch it. It feels completely wrong at first and they kinda suck, but they suck in the same ways as the original in an uncanny resemblance. Down to the lighting, sets and smallest details it's uncanny.


TL;DR: It's still Star Trek and you all love it, you bitches.
Honestly I'm torn between TAS and TOS as classic Trek.
>>
Guinan - Wed, 01 Mar 2017 20:39:30 EST ID:cO8e4/0q No.58166 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58163
I agree with a lot of your post, but I'd say that TNG did push a lot of boundaries for TV in having continuity in a time where it wasn't really a thing; almost every show had the whole 'reset button' thing going at the end of the episode, and though that happened a lot with TNG, there's definitely exceptions.

Also, please remember TNG killed a main character in season 1 and almost everyone watching during the 'Best of Both Worlds' two parter thought Patrick Stewart was leaving the show until season 3 started.. that's like the main dude and that sort of thing was UNTHINKABLE at that time. I think it's easy to look at TNG now and think it's just a product of its time, but having lived through those days I really feel like it did change some TV;s paradigmn

I dunno maybe it's just the Aldebaran ale talking

GUINAN IS A LITTLE TIPSY MAI NIGGAS
>>
Morn - Thu, 02 Mar 2017 22:35:56 EST ID:9zH3BPl5 No.58170 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58166
GET THAT FUCKING MEAD OUT OF HERE IT'S LORD SCHWEIZER
>>
Thot Pran - Fri, 03 Mar 2017 00:08:37 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.58171 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58166
No don't let the newspeaking kids convince you of their lies, you are exactly right about what TNG did for TV Guinan.

I mean if you actually ask people who research the history of television they will tell you it's simply a fact that it did certain things to change the format of the medium we now take for granted. It's only people who DIDN'T live through the change that are like the fish that cannot see the water they live in.
>>
Guinan - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 01:58:52 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58180 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58170
LORD SCHWEIZER!
>>
Guinan - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 02:03:25 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58181 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58171

Thank you.

Sometimes I'm not sure what is real and what isn't.. I'm not entirely certain I ever left the Nexus..>>58171
>>
B'Etor - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:36:20 EST ID:44aOMBj1 No.58250 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58069
There's just something about the 60s that is so damn good. I finally finished TOS and am sad to start TNG. I doubt it'll be bad, but it'll be missing that quintessential 60s vibe that made the original so good.
>>
Jossen - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:57:27 EST ID:dV0i2NZn No.58251 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58250


Dudeman, The Animated Series (1973) is your next stop.
>>
Kiri-kin-tha - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:42:31 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.58252 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58251
I'm a big fan of TAS, and it's a damn shame it doesn't get more attention. It just takes a little more imagination to watch, but if you take the effort it becomes what TOS could have been if they had a modern budget to spend.
Watch all of it, even before you watch all the movies except Wrath of Khaaaan.
>>
Eliminator Leck - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 16:56:37 EST ID:Wqg7ST5a No.58253 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58252
TAS is actually worth watching? This whole time on this board I thought people just liked it as an artifact, so I never gave it a try. What are some good eps to start with?
>>
Guinan - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 20:00:59 EST ID:4X53I0XV No.58254 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58253
It's pretty short, just watch the whole thing.. it's only one and a third seasons long, with 20 minutes episodes

I never knew it existed until a year or two ago
>>
Christopher Brynner - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 20:30:56 EST ID:/M7y7o2O No.58256 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58253
I'm a good 15 episodes deep and so far the episodes are on par with TOS
>>
Q - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 23:22:50 EST ID:A5YDQ4Hp No.58259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58069
I love TOS OP. Kirk stops dramatically pausing in his dialogue over the years though, which is a pretty big disappointment.
>>
Q - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 23:24:36 EST ID:A5YDQ4Hp No.58260 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58253
Find the episode where Spock goes to Vulcan. Good TAS
>>
Commander Dolim - Sat, 11 Mar 2017 18:42:26 EST ID:JpsWdQPO No.58264 Ignore Report Quick Reply
TOS did the "wrapping current events in alien clothing and presenting it in a way that's thought provoking and meaningful" schtick very well. I think it would have been better of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga had emulated TOS more instead of diverging in their own ways philosophically, at least concentrating on this theme a bit more.

They did it a little bit with enterprise (Suleiban being treated as prisoners of war mirroring Guantanamo) but it wasn't as subtle or nuanced as the way it was done in ToS.

Also, some people call it sexist or dated fashion, but the female uniforms were better.
>>
Ambassador Thoris - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 17:06:41 EST ID:zqAhf2+p No.60295 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58069
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_prSPCMGTiY
>>
Subcommander Velal - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 01:14:59 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.60299 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58264
idk about that man, some of it seemed really hamfisted
but idk, I didn't wantch it until like 40 years after so I imagine it was a lot more relevant and topical back then
but when I go back and watch an episode that was obviously about hippies and complacency now it just feels contrived
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Hadley - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 04:43:05 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.60302 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>58264
I really hate it when people lack the historical awareness to call the TOS uniforms sexist. Women having the right to dress however they wanted (which was sexily) was a real issue back then. The TOS uniforms are part of one of the biggest, most successful rebellions against old puritan values: The miniskirt.

One can not claim to be a feminist and at the same time call TOS "sexist". Anyone who does so is not concerned with women's rights and equality, but simply looking for things to be angry about. Things to exercise power over. They are scary people, and should be resisted at every turn. And in every case I've experienced, they're the same sort of people who shill for restrictive, socially enforced religious dress codes because they think the word "culture" means "it is illegal to object to this".
>>
Syrran - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 08:59:17 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.60303 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60299
Yeah TOS wasn't very subtle
>>60302
this
just because retards decided that neo-puritians were the way to be and go be sexless hate-beasts doesn't mean everybody's been that stupid forever
>>
Daniel Jackson - Sat, 29 Jul 2017 14:13:44 EST ID:HwIblk4K No.60387 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>58069
TOS seems a little hokie now since all the newer trek series have been out.
It's like trying to watch Batllestar Galactica.
>>
Yoeman - Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:42:35 EST ID:eVlDljHR No.60558 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60387
This is definitely true. If you can get past that, and a few bad episodes, it's a great watch, but most people I know couldn't make it beyond the archaic effects. The utopian future thing is nice, especially in contrast with the dystopian DS9 series, but my favorite part of TOS is the crew. Specifically, Spock and the Doctor have a great dynamic, and Yoeman has a unique name plus is hot.
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Pavel Chekov - Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:05:01 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.60563 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60558
I believe the yeoman you are talking about is named Janice Rand. yeoman is her rank
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Yoeman - Sat, 12 Aug 2017 22:07:39 EST ID:v4u7qnum No.60590 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60563
For one, it's spelled "Yoeman," just look at the random-name generator here. For two, her name is DEFINITELY Yoeman stop making shit up
>>
Ambassador Thoris - Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:06:05 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.60591 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60590
just do a small bit of googling friend.
nb
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Guinan - Sun, 13 Aug 2017 01:01:31 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.60592 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Yeoman is a fancy word for Hunter, but it was also some kinda naval rank (I think)

Yeomen in TOS were exclusively sexy ladies carrying a space clipboard, and I think the only one whose name we knew was Rand.. they don't show up in any of the other series though.. if you ask me they should've been in ENT and there should have been one who was clearly a gaiboi.. he could have had Archer sign something and been like "O.M.G.. what a cute little puppy.. oh capn your dog is just like adorbs!".

I can totally see how you would think that was her name, and in fact it would be a cool name.. but I'm afraid that it wasn't hers in this case.. sorry brah
>>
Natima Lang - Mon, 14 Aug 2017 06:14:02 EST ID:IAKxY9ml No.60624 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I am of a mind that the TNG, DS9 and VOY are the best Star Treks. I appreciate TOS for being the foundation everything else is built on but I feel like TOS never was as well written but that's just because expectations for television in the 60s were pretty much non existent. That said, I really dislike the new reboots because I find them too CGI laden with the emphasis being on Avengers style set pieces rather than the ethical issues and relationships TNG focuses more on.
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Badar N'D'D - Mon, 14 Aug 2017 06:30:51 EST ID:vDfMz9Zo No.60625 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60590
nice trol
you sure got him
>>
Yooomane - Thu, 17 Aug 2017 00:10:27 EST ID:dqNcP8Dz No.60660 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60625
Thanks, would troll again


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