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So it turns out the alt right is quite sore about the cast by Iliana Ghemor - Thu, 25 May 2017 04:53:47 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59397 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1495702427897.jpg -(47830B / 46.71KB, 800x430) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 47830
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/white-genocide-in-space-racist-fans-seethe-at-diversity-in-new-star-trek-series/

No I'm not gonna post that in /pol/ but maybe the few sane people on this site can get a chuckle out of this.
>>
Curzon Dax - Thu, 25 May 2017 06:43:14 EST ID:xjdWEISA No.59398 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You know sometimes I regret not starting my campaign to troll these people along with the SJW types.

I threw away my spreadsheets of vulnerable right wing twitter and facebook marks.

Now that it's happening anyway (Like I knew it would) I'm really pissed that I haven't been focusing on this all year. I know a feminist journalist or two. I could have fed them the root of a meme that could trace the origins of the outrage to me. If it became a popular meme it would be a paper trail.

I could demonstrate how these waves of backlash work to the Social Justice people while humiliating the alt-righties.

But anyway I was in a deep funk after Trump got elected and figured it would be bad for society, and I regret that so much.
>>
Silik - Thu, 25 May 2017 09:19:04 EST ID:samNUQ7B No.59400 Ignore Report Quick Reply
this is the same fucking marketing scheme they used for Ghostbusters.

I am a queer liberal activist and this show is going to be shit, it is ham fisted and preachy and will alienate potential allies instead of draw them in.

smh all a person has to do anymore is cast minorities then nothing else can ever be discussed or criticized.
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Thu, 25 May 2017 11:26:58 EST ID:rTxjzRpT No.59401 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495726018911.gif -(4729664B / 4.51MB, 200x200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>These people on twitter thinking their "real" star trek fans.

No real star trek fan wouldn't be so pissy over "muh white race" shit. Then again, I'm pretty sure DS9 and VOY had the same blowback with their respective casting choices.

I'm not shaking my head at them for their "LOL WHITE GENOCIDE!" I am laughing at them and shaking my head at them for thinking crew of USS Shenzhou is the crew of the USS Discovery.
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Thu, 25 May 2017 11:27:37 EST ID:rTxjzRpT No.59402 Ignore Report Quick Reply
they're* nb
>>
Zefram Cochrane - Thu, 25 May 2017 12:12:30 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59403 Ignore Report Quick Reply
We already have an STD thread.

>>59400
Yeah, using a borderline neonazi minority as a shield is pretty easy in this. This site looks like a left wing American Sun, with all those articles about Trump.

>>59401
Am I the only one to think it's kind of weird that the ship with the Chinese name also has a Chinese captain? Is that going to be a thing? Is Trek going to do the whole "seperate but equal" thing? Because Trek shouldn't.

Also, no true scotsman. Being a Trek fan doesn't mean that people should all hold to the same political ideology. This sort of blowback is pretty typical of hardcore fans, though. You should have seen the retarded Fallout fans when Bethesda started working on Fallout 3. I visited No Mutants Allowed a lot, because in their butthurt they were always the first ones to have the news. You'd think those people played completely different games, with their insistence that Fallout was a super serious series, while in reality it was completely tongue-in-cheek all the way. I've honestly never played a video game so thick with pop culture references as Fallout 2.

But there's also an article complaining there's not ENOUGH diversity in STD. It's so butthurt that I honestly can't tell whether it's supposed to be satire or not. I mean, loaded poll and complaining about ethnicity being "hidden" if a non-white person plays an alien. The works.

No, here's what I think: People have been trained to count minorities on TV in a way they weren't before. This happens irrespective of political ideals, leading to right wing white people to notice when they're not being represented. A big flaw in identity politics is the presumption that political opponents won't use it for themselves. But they do.

And being represented as "white" is a whole chestnut on its own. I'm from a tiny European country. I don't feel represented by white Americans. The latest piece of media to give my people ANY sort of representation was The Witcher 3, and they still mispronounce our names. Which is something that the more rabid SJW's consider legit racism if done to a non-white person.
>>
Zefram Cochrane - Thu, 25 May 2017 12:24:44 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59405 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59403
And hanging out on the same site, the writer of the article I was reading is now slamming the lead actress... because she's Christian.

Like I said, it's so ridiculous that I'm not sure that it's not satire. Except nobody doing satire would put this much effort into it. But it reads like charicature. And these people, too, are Trek fans. People who literally want you to not get a job because of your skin colour or religion. And they think they're fighting prejudice.

STD is shaping up to be yet another shitty popcorn product that's being sold as the next step in social justice. While TOS was the next step in social justice being sold as a shitty popcorn product. It's almost as if they're getting their shit all turned around...

nb
>>
Eliminator Leck - Thu, 25 May 2017 12:35:39 EST ID:ld4eMPXz No.59406 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59405

>are Trek fans

no, they are Herberts.
>>
Vekma - Thu, 25 May 2017 13:16:20 EST ID:TECkdwKb No.59407 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59403
>Representation
I had a long post but it made no sense so basically TL;DR - US representation discourse and writing have conflicting goals and it's pretty much impossible to truly satisfy those that clamor for more representation for the sake of it. It's also oversimplified in a gross manner to a point where you pretty much have to handicap yourself as a creator to achieve it, resulting in a inferior product that no one will enjoy. People have a right to be worried about the quality of writing for DIS because of this, even though Star Trek has proven that it can actually do both as long as there are competent writers on board (compare DS9's characters to VOY's characters)

But yeah, some alt right trolls bitching about too much diversity in a series that is known for diversity isn't even low hanging fruit--the fucking apple is on the ground and has become the local bar for worms.
>>
Rekelen - Thu, 25 May 2017 15:48:08 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59409 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Who the fuck cares
>>
Rekelen - Thu, 25 May 2017 15:48:57 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59410 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You know you tards give their trolling legitimacy when you talk about them all the time and take their bullshit seriously.
>>
Vekma - Thu, 25 May 2017 19:10:15 EST ID:TECkdwKb No.59411 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59410
It's one thing if it's for something I'm not interested in but sometimes the bait is an actual subject I'm interested in. And although these sort of discussions inevitably do turn into circlejerks quickly, I usually try to get my word in quickly before it does. In this case I'm not even interested in a bunch of trolls pretending to be offended, I just wanted to try to talk about the concept of representation, which I feel like is either brushed aside or is treated as an end all be all without giving it much of a second thought.

...Then again, you're probably right. I've been trying hard to avoid talking about hot topics like this altogether because eventually I end up going full retard because I can't really handle the degree of viciousness these discussions bring up now. I used to when I was younger but not so much anymore. I guess it's because I just don't actually give a shit anymore.
>>
Weyoun 6 - Thu, 25 May 2017 19:43:54 EST ID:YX6hX83Z No.59412 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Yeah, I'm kinda getting a Ghostbusters (2016) vibe from all this as well.
>>
Porthos - Thu, 25 May 2017 19:47:46 EST ID:52qIw6x9 No.59413 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59398
>But anyway I was in a deep funk after Trump got elected
I actually celebrated. And not because I'm a gaybashing bullying xenophobe. But because now, for the first time in decades, the mainstream is starting to SHIT on the president. Yea we had Bush, but he didn't wake people up. He didn't wake my mom up for example. Then we had Obama, which just made the drones sleep even harder (Based Blackman for the win hurr durr meanwhile even more spying and killing than Bush.). Now, with Trump, people who were...extremely uninformed, are now waking up to just how FUCKED up shit is. I knew if he won this would happen, and that's why I pushed hard for him to get in there. People worry far too much, the President is not a dictator, there are many checks and balances in place and Trump will be dismissed before things get too chaotic. But we still needed him to shake it up, and wake up the dipshits. His approval rating is low as fuck. Even his diehard TrumpTards are rousing from their sleep, disillusioned and confused...and actually looking around, instead of being blind.

Now, I have no idea about this Trek or any new Trek since I've only seen all of TNG, and some of TOS and Voyager, and Some of DS9. If it's good, I'll be very happy. If it's bad...I'll be disappointed, because I'm really expecting it to be good. I really am. Maybe I'm too hopeful. Maybe I'm hopeful because I'm ignorant of what sort of production this is, like I said I'm out of the loop (Still love trek though).
>>
Spot - Thu, 25 May 2017 20:13:16 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59414 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Ardon Broht - Thu, 25 May 2017 20:19:59 EST ID:YX6hX83Z No.59415 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59414

fucking brilliant.
>>
Q - Thu, 25 May 2017 22:11:39 EST ID:hxAGekRO No.59418 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59397

/pol/ and /tv/ tried this shit on The Force Awakens, too. They got a little ink and then people moved on.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/19/racists-urge-boycott-of-star-wars-episode-vii-over-black-lead-and-most-of-them-love-trump
>>
Dr. T'Pan - Fri, 26 May 2017 04:25:53 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59432 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59411
I kind of get how you feel. A lot of these discussions are so emotionally charged that it's almost impossible to have a calm, reasonable discussion about them. Not in the least because we can get caught up in the discussion, too. I've been called shit too often for saying things that I thought weren't "out there" at all.

But I also hate how that itself is used as a tool to legitimize one standpoint or another. Some people, as soon as they can claim that you offended them in some way, will just instantly shut down the discussion, while they themselves have been acting like disrespectful pricks all the fucking time. You get these conversations where you type out an entire argument, and they cherrypick a single sentence or word, and go like "see, you slipped up here, which means I'm right about everything".

I really wish we could pack people like that into a big barrel and shoot them into the sun.

>>59418
I think these news agencies are busting things out of proportion, though. As someone already said, with the new Ghostbusters they made a conscious effort to point out that everyone who disliked it is a misogynist and racist. Thing is, on the internet you're always going to find an opinion like that. It's extremely easy.

/pol/ and /tv/ are just discussing things among themselves. They don't go to sites they don't agree with and say "hey, could you print this and make sure to calls us racists?" It's the decision of the people who run those sites to write articles about this stuff and pretend some people on some anonymous site panning a shitty movie in unsubtle terms is a real problem.

And The Force Awakens is prototypical for this new wave of stuff in old settings. I found the movie to be boring and forgettable. Take out all the Star Wars stuff, and no-one would have looked twice at it. It resembled those superhero origin movies a lot, where we all know they have an entire run of movies set up, so the first is devoted entirely to telling us shit everyone already knows about the hero in question. So we get to see Rey casually discovering Force powers we've all seen before.

It's a lazy movie. And beyond that, the relation between the critical audience and the actions of the producers is a little more complex than "they're all racists".
>>
DaiMon Bok - Fri, 26 May 2017 10:33:36 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.59433 Ignore Report Quick Reply
this whole thread is space cancer caused by too many fagitrons through the shit invertion field.
>>
Lt. Daniels - Fri, 26 May 2017 21:28:00 EST ID:ZM7LVkHY No.59441 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59433
Try reducing the fagitron output by negative 2.
>>
Erika Benteen - Fri, 26 May 2017 22:19:17 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59441

that might create an inverse fagitron field, which would envelope the whole board.
>>
Corporal Kelly - Fri, 26 May 2017 22:35:46 EST ID:Mo8H+42w No.59444 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59442
Captain, if we divert the fagitron radiation through the forward deflector array we may need able to trap it in the nearby planets ionosphere
>>
Captain Janeway - Sat, 27 May 2017 02:18:56 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59447 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59442
Well we're already just about enveloped, so I say we give it a shot. I'll note your objections in my log.
>>
Kolo - Sat, 27 May 2017 04:00:14 EST ID:+uQHRXJC No.59448 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59444
Yes, but Data, isn't that planet Earth? Are you sure this is a reasonable course of action? (A period of considerable thought). Very well Mr. Data, make it so.
>>
Mezoti - Sat, 27 May 2017 15:33:09 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59460 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59448
Captain! Our transfer beam to the planet is creating a fagitron feedback loop inside our shit inversion field! I estimate we are two minutes from a warp core breach!
Can this thread now just be this plz
>>
Leck - Sat, 27 May 2017 16:34:39 EST ID:52qIw6x9 No.59461 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59460
Hey guys, great banter you've got going on, would be a shame if somebody....Wesleyd it
>>
Lt. Daniels - Sat, 27 May 2017 16:42:08 EST ID:ZM7LVkHY No.59462 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495917728685.jpg -(52946B / 51.71KB, 400x227) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>59461
Remember that time you fell in love with a monster, Wes?
>>
Lt. Cmdr. Calvin Hudson - Sat, 27 May 2017 17:33:10 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.59463 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59462
YOU WILL LEAVE HIM ALONE
>>
Xerius - Sat, 27 May 2017 19:05:10 EST ID:NNu0rHAt No.59464 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495926310309.jpg -(65300B / 63.77KB, 640x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Did someone say proto-Klingon-demigod-monsters?
>>
Leck - Sat, 27 May 2017 19:29:12 EST ID:52qIw6x9 No.59465 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495927752159.png -(359344B / 350.92KB, 584x438) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
It was a mash! It was a monster mash!
We totally didn't eat those gerbil ambassadors btw.
>>
Major Rakal - Sat, 27 May 2017 19:35:32 EST ID:gGsW5kAD No.59466 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I am literally as lefty as they come, anti-racist, feminist, etc., and the race of the captain barely registered to me when I watched the trailer.

I came out of it thinking, "dammit, I still have no idea whether this will be good or terrible."
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Sat, 27 May 2017 22:39:22 EST ID:Vkvu7j4d No.59468 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495939162774.gif -(510608B / 498.64KB, 500x334) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>59466
We're losing control, Captain.
Ooohooo Myyyy.
>>
Pax - Sun, 28 May 2017 05:37:44 EST ID:NNu0rHAt No.59470 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59468
HOLD IT STEADY MR. SULU WE'RE REACHING APPROACHING SHITWARP 6
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Sun, 28 May 2017 08:49:43 EST ID:Vkvu7j4d No.59472 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59470
ITS. no. USE. The..fagitrons are. TOO...strong.
>>
Tallera - Sun, 28 May 2017 10:29:31 EST ID:gGsW5kAD No.59473 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59468
My point was just that who gives a fuck if the MC is a woman and not white? What matters is the fucking show, and aside from yet another Klingon redesign, we aren't getting shit to judge that on.
>>
Emperor Kahless - Sun, 28 May 2017 12:07:46 EST ID:SHq00Qum No.59475 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59473
>My point was just that who gives a fuck if the MC is a woman and not white?
Nobody, you fuckin' dingus. Goddamn when did stating really obvious, universally held beliefs as if more than 12 people on the internet disagreed with you become a thing?

>Uh, actually, I'm against racism
Yeah, so is everybody else. Tells us about how strongly anti-murder you are too, Tallera.
>>
Kozak - Sun, 28 May 2017 14:15:59 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59476 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495995359749.jpg -(76067B / 74.28KB, 1296x730) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>59473
>>59475
I am Locutus of Borg. Your fagitrons are futile. Your fagitron and shitposting distinctiveness will be added to our own. From this point forward, your cringe will service...us.
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Sun, 28 May 2017 16:10:49 EST ID:Vkvu7j4d No.59477 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1496002249774.jpg -(29089B / 28.41KB, 720x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>59476
We can help. We are smart. We know things.
>>
Admiral William J Ross - Sun, 28 May 2017 16:15:37 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59478 Ignore Report Quick Reply
in all seriousness:

sexploitation: exploiting sex for profit

blaxploitation: exploiting black culture for profit

social-justiceploitation: exploiting ultra left ideologues for profit
>>
Emperor Kahless - Sun, 28 May 2017 17:21:25 EST ID:SHq00Qum No.59480 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59476
Jokes on you, all the Borg will get from assimilating me is crippling alcoholism.
>>
Darlene Kursky - Mon, 29 May 2017 22:37:44 EST ID:maxNIBJl No.59508 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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...it's like these people haven't even watched Star Trek or even thought about the topics and issues that are covered within.
>>
Kira Meru - Tue, 30 May 2017 04:52:28 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59509 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59508
You mean the people spamming the thread because they don't like the discussion taking place in it, right? Because yes, that's completely counter to the message of Star Trek.
>>
Senator Kimara Cretak - Tue, 30 May 2017 05:36:46 EST ID:xkwm0uRC No.59510 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59478
>SJW
>Ultra-Left

They aren't even Left, they're just Liberals.
>>
Porthos - Tue, 30 May 2017 08:23:02 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59512 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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OP you're a massive tard if you thought this subject matter actually warranted discussion. I don't know if I've ever read a worse article. This legitimately pisses me off that this is passed off as news. "People said stupid things on twitter and in youtube comments..." Really? This can't be possible!

I don't think I need to further explain the lack of relevance of this idiotic "article."
>>
Guinan - Tue, 30 May 2017 08:28:02 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.59513 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59510
>Screeching SJWs are now the entirety of the left side of the political spectrum

If only Roddenberry could have seen the future he would have lost all his optimism and set the most of Star trek in the mirror universe

Just nuke us from orbit, Vulcans

No Bump for shit tier thread about a series that will almost certainly be inferior to the lower budget parody series of it
>>
Dr. Lewis Zimmerman - Tue, 30 May 2017 09:09:08 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59514 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59509

>they don't like the discussion taking place in it

a discussion based on shit viral marketing, itself based on cherry picking tweets from racists.

nb
>>
Dr. Telek R'Mor - Tue, 30 May 2017 14:32:38 EST ID:En3qmtpM No.59518 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59513
Gene wasn't that far off.
He cronied his show onto tv with Desilu
he had his lackies fake grassroots support to keep his shit going
he virtue signalled himself a busy casting couch
>>
Dr. Lewis Zimmerman - Tue, 30 May 2017 16:12:24 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59519 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59513

daily reminder that sanctuary cities are more or less predicted by DS9.
>>
Gun Runner Sakonna - Tue, 30 May 2017 16:50:08 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59520 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59519
>>daily reminder
I've never seen anyone post this before.
>>that sanctuary cities are more or less predicted by DS9.
Because not cooperating with immigration officers city wide is the same thing as providing universal basic income and shelter within a designated zone inside a city? Makes...no sense.

Also I was spamming in this thread because we don't need yet another discotrash thread and this one has /pol/ bait written all over it. And no one is saying anything that hasn't already been said a million times (on the front page of this board.) Symbolic nb.
>>
Legate Turrel - Tue, 30 May 2017 17:06:05 EST ID:0fawZtvp No.59522 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59520
>providing universal basic income and shelter within a designated zone inside a city

Yeah no. Participation was not voluntary. It was a jail for poor people.
>>
Gun Runner Sakonna - Tue, 30 May 2017 17:27:50 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59523 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59522
Nope. Rewatch the episode. They specify that for the poor, the 'gimmes,' participation is voluntary (although once you got in, it was very difficult to get out.) Only homeless were forced to stay (homelessness is illegal anyway, you're not allowed to live on the street, so this is actually a step up, 'you can't go anywhere else because by definition you'll be breaking the law') along with the 'dims' presumably because they didn't have the capacity to make decisions for themselves. It was a jail for the homeless and mentally ill, not the poor, although they were there too.

Besides, that's not my point. My point is that Star Trek's Sanctuary cities share no characteristics with what we call sanctuary cities in the real world. Immigration wasn't even brought up in that episode. The 'sanctuary' is from the reach of the federal government's immigration policy, not poverty or homelessness.
>>
Darlene Kursky - Tue, 30 May 2017 18:48:58 EST ID:maxNIBJl No.59524 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59509
what? no, i meant the people complaing about diversity in Trek...
>>
Admiral Chekote - Tue, 30 May 2017 21:02:09 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59527 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59523
No, it wasn't difficult to get out. It was impossible. It was forcing the unwanteds to live in a designated ghetto. That's not voluntary if they refuse to let you out. The episode would have been over after the first few minutes if they were just allowed to walk out lol.
>>
M'Ress - Tue, 30 May 2017 21:15:36 EST ID:7y/FSNDF No.59530 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Captain's log, supplemental:
The Captain's log, was...supplemental.
>>
Gul Ranor - Wed, 31 May 2017 16:48:17 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59545 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP here,
Seeing how many of you have gone off the deep end makes this low effort posting even more tasty.

  • Star Trek was an attempt to say that humanity will reach maturity and wisdom on the day that it begins not just to tolerate, but take a special delight in differences in ideas and differences in life forms. […] If we cannot learn to actually enjoy those small differences, to take a positive delight in those small differences between our own kind, here on this planet, then we do not deserve to go out into space and meet the diversity that is almost certainly out there.
―Gene Roddenberry

This is why if you are a Trekkie and a bigot you will be internally conflicted. You can of course still... just now you know why.
>>
Mezoti - Wed, 31 May 2017 16:54:08 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59546 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59527
You got out if you got a job which proved you didn't need the Sanctuary anymore. Remember, Sisko and Bashir get set up for job interviews outside of the Sanctuary, which they of course just dip on to start their revolution?
They couldn't just walk out because they had no place to prove they could go to. This is what really happens if you're arrested for homelessness. It's very difficult to get out, but if you can prove you were just drunk or something, and prove you have an address or somewhere else to go to, they'll let you out immediately. That's why Dax was hoping to get to them, why her friend suggested he could get them out of there, and why those plans were frustrated by the hostage situation.
>>
Major J Hayes - Wed, 31 May 2017 20:52:47 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59548 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59545

yeah there is no problem with that worldview.

the problem is shoe-horning that worldview into a dead franchise that can't actually express that worldview without breaking so far from the original material that it is silly to have it related at all.

honestly they should have just made this show *without* the star trek name attached, which is just a shitty money grab.
>>
Harry Kim - Wed, 31 May 2017 23:12:48 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59550 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59545
So you're that much of a dick that you had to shitpost here to prove that point?
Idgaf what the point you were trying to make was if you had to lower the quality of the whole board by doing it. Fuck off.
>>
Gul Evek - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 03:30:48 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59553 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59550
I haven't realized there is a don't ask don't tell policy about bigotry on this board.
Wait there isn't... yeah go fuck yourself too.

>>59548
Baww it doesn't confirm my biases so I call it not real trek. How did kind of reasoning work out in the past? Remember ENT? How is it regarded now?
also...
Did you even read Gene's quote? That worldview has been spearheaded by Star Trek from the very beginning.
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 05:46:52 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59545
Who in this thread has "gone off the deep end"? I'm not seeing it. In fact, most criticism on STD I've seen on this board has had to do with the entire product on its own. Its tone, its look. And most responses I've seen to those is "there's not enough to judge", which is bollocks, because we have a trailer, and that's what they're for, and what you're saying: "everyone who dislikes it is a bigot".

I'm sorry, but did you read what you just posted? Did you actually watch Star Trek? Because you'll notice that showing an optimistic, diverse future isn't where Trek ends. If it did, nobody would have an issue with STD and/or JJTrek. But Trek is a philosophical show that examines the human condition. That includes political opinion, racial relations, etc. etc.

Star Trek has never been a show that says "this opinion is right, and you're wrong" except if you maybe scrape the bottom of the barrel of shitty episodes. As a rule, Trek has been a smart show that examines every viewpoint equally. It's right there in that text you posted "take a special delight in ideas".

My favorite Trek show has among its major and recurring characters a terrorist, a torturer, a borderline fascist, a prophet, and a swindling con artist. And those are the good guys. And it makes a point to examine them all, why they did what they did, what drove them, how their decisions have shaped them as people.

The moment you call someone a bigot for disagreeing with you, is the moment you ignore everything that made Trek work. You say "internally conflicted" as if it's a bad thing, but Trek constantly shows its characters examining and re-examining themselves, their believes, their actions. It makes a clear point that this magical, inclusive future is not the result of top-down applied political dogma, but the actions of people in society every day, over and over again. To quote Picard in The Drumhead:

"You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured... the first thought forbidden... the first freedom denied – chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie, as wisdom... and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged."

Just like in that episode, accusations without argument are the very fabric of everything Star Trek stands against. Or would you be like Admiral Norah Satie, to tar someone with the brush of contempt because they share some common characteristics with legitimate bigots? I hope you enjoy your new show, because it won't be Trek, and that seems to be exactly right for you. Now go and fight shadows somewhere else.
>>
Major J Hayes - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 08:19:26 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59555 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59553

honestly I don't think you are having a conversation here, just straw-manning everyone.

I think you are too stupid to realize what is being argued. No one wants ST to be less diverse. Just less pedantic, shallow, and preachy.

nb
>>
Gul Evek - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:05:00 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59558 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59554
>and what you're saying: "everyone who dislikes it is a bigot".
Nope, I'm saying every bigot that dislikes it does it for the same reason.
>Because you'll notice that showing an optimistic, diverse future isn't where Trek ends.
Actually it does it's just that progressive politics have been so successful over the years that past shows seem mundane by current standards.
>Star Trek has never been a show that says "this opinion is right, and you're wrong"
umm
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Chase_(episode)
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Far_Beyond_the_Stars_(episode)
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Flesh_and_Blood_(episode)
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Home_(episode)

Yeah really hard to see what's right and what's wrong is in these ones.

>My favorite Trek show has among its major and recurring characters a terrorist, a torturer, a borderline fascist, a prophet, and a swindling con artist. And those are the good guys.
They are shades of gray characters actually and they have their moment when they rise above their pettiness.
>You say "internally conflicted" as if it's a bad thing, but Trek constantly shows its characters examining and re-examining themselves
Yeah, but the people who posted those tweets referenced in OP ain't doing that.
>I hope you enjoy your new show, because it won't be Trek, and that seems to be exactly right for you.
See you in about 10 years. Trek always pushed the envelope on what social norms are it continues to do so in current times. So many issues it has been dealt with in the past have become today's social norms, just like the issues it is dealing with today will hopefully become the social norms of the future.
>>
Major J Hayes - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:24:29 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59560 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59558

no you don't get it.

slapping a plastic forhead on a dude and making him a stand in for a racial minority is extremely racist.

you simply can't do it today as hard science fiction.

the original metaphor is racist.

now please stop posting.
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 10:39:54 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59558
You have nothing to base that blind faith in STD on except accusations. That list of episodes includes two that definitely *are* scraping the bottom of the barrel, and two that support my point, not yours, in that they urge understanding of one's opponents and critical examination of one's allies, and one that is almost purely historical. I've made my point, and I stand by it.

Oh, and one of the tweets in the OP article is about how STD isn't looking diverse *enough*. Somebody didn't notice that, and lumped it in with the other haters. That really tells me enough about the quality of said article.

I won't be responding to this any further, because I think this thread is undermining the quality of the board. I understand your point, but I think you are expressing it poorly. I hope you enjoy STD, but I do not expect I will, based on what I've seen. Thank you for responding civilly, though. But I think I've already said everything I could have to say about this.
>>
Miles O'Brien - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 10:55:25 EST ID:n8McU5oH No.59562 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59558
>"this opinion is right, and you're wrong"
I thought the TOS with Frank Gorshin points out that the non-Riddler guys should stop being a bunch of violent thuggish assholes at the same time as saying the Riddler guys should stop holding them down.
>>
Gul Evek - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:12:29 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59563 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59560
>slapping a plastic forhead on a dude and making him a stand in for a racial minority is extremely racist.
In the context of Star trek it's not. They never stand for any specific actual minority and stand on their own.

>>59561
bye

>>59562
Well can you say from memory which one group blank&white or white&black was? You very probably can't, that's the point.
>>
Jaro Essa - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:51:01 EST ID:0JMozmZI No.59564 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59563

>They never stand for any specific actual minority and stand on their own.

Wrong.

Watch television from the same period as TOS. It is chock full of Indians and Voodoo and mesoamerican mysteries and shit. All of it is fabricated. White fantasy.

Spock literally only exists so that the marshall can have an indian side kick that doesn't offend real indians.
>>
Gul Evek - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 13:02:48 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59568 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59564
>Watch television from the same period as TOS. It is chock full of Indians and Voodoo and mesoamerican mysteries and shit
>Spock literally only exists so that the marshall can have an indian side kick that doesn't offend real indians.

yeah it's so racist about the actual Vulcans.
facepalm
>>
Major J Hayes - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 14:06:35 EST ID:Ik4uItQv No.59570 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59568

yeah you don't get it.

the metaphor is racist.

nb because this is cancer.
>>
Gul Evek - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 14:41:33 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59571 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59570
OK, yeah I get it Vulcans are really just space Elves.
double facepalm
>>
Captain Kargan - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 16:26:46 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.59572 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59571
DAMN POINTY EARED HOBGOBLINS
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 17:48:18 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59574 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59554
>>59555
>>59558
>>59560
>>59561
>>etc, etc
Captain! The shit inversion field has suffered a critical failure! Fagitrons are irradiating all decks and hull integrity is failing!
See? This is what happens when you let this shit run rampant. Who is going to complain about spamming this thread to death now?
>>
Gul Evek - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 18:15:24 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59576 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59574
Have you considered that this thread might just keep this shit out of the other discovery threads?
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 18:19:52 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59577 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59576
Have you considered we don't need this shit in the first place?
>>
Lt. Diana Giddings - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 19:45:37 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59580 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting

nb
>>
Guinan - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 20:04:04 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.59581 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I just want to let you all know I'm going to destroy this thread later when no one is looking using my El Aurian Jutsu because it is gay as fuck.

OP go fuck yourself. This thread will be mysteriously vanished tomorrow.

No Bumps for you
>>
Rebi - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 04:16:18 EST ID:J1dYq1d1 No.59587 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59518

>he virtue signalled himself a busy casting couch

I thought Shatner was walking funny in the first couple of episodes.
>>
Katherine Pulaski - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 21:49:55 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59596 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Speaking as a man who identifies with the alt-right, has spoken with Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor personally, engaged in many a 'pool party' with the Houston Goylers, and has a mostly familial relation with many very bad goys in my neighborhood, the general consensus is that the alt right's favorite Star Trek is DS9.

I'm not saying that to go 'oh I bet you didn't expect that huh, based black guy'. No, niggers suck and Lincoln should have been let to live and send them home. We like it because of what colors it sheds on the utopia of differences. It doesn't find new privileges to check, it self-reflects and builds characters, it makes us care about everyone on that space station as people with fears, dreams, ambitions and mysteries. It doesn't take time to 'embrace the differences' it builds on the world that Star Trek made, and actually makes a story instead of a long-running string of ham-fisted messages. Concepts of diametrically opposed civilizations, the breakdown of the kum-bay-yah, and the peaceful solution to every approach. Those who can't or won't fit the Federation ideal, and what the Federation does to them. The perspective of civilizations to this supposed galactic force for good. Discovery wouldn't have two villain races muse on Star Trek ideals over a glass of root beer. Voyager wouldn't delve into the socially binding power of faith on the civilization under control. Sisko wasn't the Black Captain, he was the Commander, the family man who lost. Bashir wasn't 'the indian captain' he was the playboy doctor with aspirations of mystery and intrigue because his life was mystery and intrigue. And Section 31. Section 31 made all the stupid decisions and luck of the Federation make all the more sense. The utopia has a babysitter, and it's bringing black latex suits back.

The alt-right may never be your political home, or even something you want to understand, but our racial consciousness is not so base as to repulse at things for not being white, it's that we see the shallowness of Discovery, and the evolution of the Roddenberry ideal. The 'small differences' were all to the backdrop of a western military governance of lifestyle, fashion and sensibility. One guy plays the bagpipes, one guy is asian and uses swords, boomer tourist multiculturalism. What that has become is not simply tolerance but a veneration of the other over the core of the self. To be white, straight, western, these are not simply uninteresting, they must be countered, and the interviews of the writers express their beliefs as such. They come to Star Trek and don't say 'how can I make an interesting world of characters with struggles and conflicts' it's 'what can I do to check off the new social movement box today'. You can't make a story with 'I'm gonna cast all the villains as white, and the good persons as non-binary muslims! Take that racists!' I mean, you can, but it's guaranteed to suck. I saw the thread, you all felt the shallowness of it. They pour all the energy into the message, because 'THAT'S WHAT STAR TREK IS SUPPOSED TO BE'.

Well fuck you, we got enough messages in the world today, tell a fucking story and make it clear why anyone should waste their time, ESPECIALLY me, since my racist ass got their president and yours didn't. Star Trek is what is says it is, a Trek in the Stars. Damn the wishes of an adulterer song-stealing drugged out hippie who went full weeaboo at his wedding, a universe is not one man, and it can be made into good stories. Better stories than the shallow signally mess Discovery is going to be.

The protection and future of my people, the desire for a homestead and a political landscape that allows us our own interests, and understanding the pozzed direction certain (((powers))) take media doesn't make us not want a good story. See we can still like shit, and not get so political about it we can't enjoy the concept anymore. You're the goys who can't do that stuff.
>>
Katherine Pulaski - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 21:57:09 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59597 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59596
And if any of you homos go full larp and try to pretend I'm actually Pulaski to discredit the commentary... well it would be a funny thing to do, fair enough. But I have to protect the counter-meta so I'll just say this;

Gas the Kais, Pah War Now
>>
Lonzo - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 23:29:32 EST ID:5uU+DoWU No.59598 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59596
OP here, as a proud drugged out hippie let me tell you, fuck yeah, if nothing else your post made this thread definitely worth it. Whoever posts on this board and is not high as fuck right now, srsly?
In the words of your hero:
Baby, sad!
>>
Ikat'ika - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 00:42:48 EST ID:PoJIX+gO No.59599 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59596

Best thing I've read on this website all year.
>>
Li Nalas - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 01:11:40 EST ID:52qIw6x9 No.59600 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59599
>>59598
these comments give me hope.
>>
Pah-wraith - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 02:51:32 EST ID:K6pRQ8/j No.59601 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59596
>>
Phlox - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 07:11:58 EST ID:/c3UFJRJ No.59602 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59596
I don't agree with your politics or your views on race (I can take or leave culture, I've played MMOs with too diverse a bunch of people to think it has any value or really makes an important difference, white western culture or african culture or whatever lets just not be shitheads and wipe the fucking raid okay?)

However I agree on lazy checkbox diversity versus interesting characters. I think where we disagree is that while neither of us would vilify someone for being racist I think not trying to push back (still failing but trying) is what makes you a worse person.

But you have a good taste in shows.

I think DS9 is the best show for different reasons though. Not entirely dissimilar. It's interesting (a sign of good writing I think) that we can see slightly different things in it. I liked the compromises. As I said we're all a bit racist, we're all a bit shit. We can aim for the stars but we have to accept we're going to stumble and sometimes cheat. In the pale moonlight, section 31, the truth is that pacifism and equality for all are good goals and they are worth pursing, but we can't just drop our weapons and hug everyone. Most people will play it our way because it's easier for them and for us. Cooperation is usually better than competition. But some just won't. And then you grab your enormous pile of sticks. If you want peace prepare for war. I see pacifism as an ideal. We need the biggest guns to achieve that but likely there's always going to be a new threat on the horizon. If we got this far, someone else can too.DS9 deconstructs but then reconstructs the star trek ideals, here's why they don't work, here's the concessions we have to make for them to work.

Also realising that even the bad guys are usually not all bad. Kai Wynn was a cunt but she had given up her whole life for power, the only mistake she made was that she believed in her right to rule more than the prophets. Dukat was a complex character. And while we may have different views on the betterment of society to me, that doesn't make you even a bad guy. Just someone whose values differ. I'd debate federation values with you over root beer.
>>
EMH MARK 2 - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 20:22:57 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59605 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59596
>>59602
You both said it. What made DS9 work was the complex nature of its characters and their relations. What I consider to be the strength of science fiction, and Star Trek in particular, is that it can pour familiar conditions into new roles. A lot of people want to make easy assumptions, like the Bajorans are Space Jews, and the Ferengi are Space Jews... and that already shows why that shit is retarded. Especially DS9 presents us with a collection of cultures, and the people from them, with their own hang-ups and reasons for having them. Compared to TNG, DS9's Federation seemed much smaller, surrounded by other influential people. People who weren't just influential because they had a lot of warships hanging around, like the Romulans in TNG, or even the Borg with their inscrutable motives.

The Dominion were also very consciously a Dark Federation, a mundane enemy with spaceships, politics, etc. I've always enjoyed TNG's weird space beings, and the meaning of their perception on reality. Q will always be pretty great. But DS9 really got into the nitty-gritty of interpersonal details.

In terms of diversity, DS9 simply did it better than any other Trek. And as so often with something that does a thing very well, people don't even see it. They don't seem to realize that characters like Quark or Garak are still stand-ins for real human beings. They don't seem to see that there's not just diversity of race, because Sisko is a black guy, or gender because Kira is a literally strong woman, but diversity of thought that's perhaps more broad than in any of the other Treks. Even the constrast between upper and lower class is present in Bashir and O'Brien. And anyone who wants to claim that Trek hasn't had a trans character should take a real long, hard look at Jadzia and wonder why they never blinked at lines like "is it because she used to be man?"

Not that I'm not guilty of that. The eye-opener for me was that I started equating a trans person to Jadzia before they even came out. And that's the strength of diversity in Trek. They don't say "we need a black, a trans, an arab, a few women, and fill the rest with white guys and aliens". They say "it would be interesting to make a character who does not feel emotions/has lived a previous life as a man/is from one species but lives among another", so you leave your preconceptions at the door. Even the writers never realized they were effectively writing an autistic person with Data, and I've gotten shit for saying it previously, but the Klingons hit on some real similarities with Islam, especially with Worf as a second generation immigrant. I mean, I went and checked it, and even the Kahless myth itself is about as old in Trek as Islam is today. But no-one is going to get upset for them showing Kahless onscreen, and no-one will pre-judge the Klingons from their existing opinion on Islam. Instead, people look at what's presented onscreen, and will judge on their own whether or not they take the Klingons' belief in Kahless seriously, and if it's worthy of respect.

So filtered through our boring reality goggles, DS9 essentially had a tranny marrying a Muslim. You know, except in science fiction speak where neither is called that and both characters were much more than boring reality standins besides that interesting parallel. As I said, diversity of thought, and not the fake diversity of putting someone with dark skin on the bridge and then thinking you're done with your obligation to treating diversity in your show.

The same counts for groups like the Cardassians, or the Maquis. The Maquis are notoriously divisive among the fans, from what I can tell. I see a parallel in them, too, with colonial people left to their fate after the decolonization. That's what I take away from it, at least. They probably weren't intended that way, but they *were* intended as "people left without support by the government they trusted, with an intimate connection to the land they have claimed as their own through hard work, the target of native hate groups supported and/or tolerated by their own government". And that's the long description of people left behind in ex-colonial areas. And, again, a lot of people besides them, because it describes a social state of being, and not a direct, clearcut link to reality.

Honestly, when I watch VOY, its Maquis are just your dumb, boorish "freedom fighters" you see in any property. In fact, that whole thing where Maquis leaders start fistfights as a way to maintain order is what we saw in DS9's Mirror universe episodes, while its Maquis were meek civilians trying to fill shoes way too big for them. An unruly ideal for edgelords, versus people so real it's hard to not sympathize with them. Or hate them, as the case may be.

I think that's the point of DS9. Everyone's motives are very understandable, even if they are opposed to each other. And that's probably also why DS9 has a broad appeal across political boundaries. It doesn't pontificate, it doesn't present one way as better above the other. I think that's where its grey area Federation comes from. The very concept of DS9 belies showing the Federation as always being right. It would provide an easy moral out for a show that's focused on presenting an equilateral treatment of different viewpoints.
>>
Willie Hawkins - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 20:40:34 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59606 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59605
>Jadzia a Tranny
She's a spiritkin. Jadzia was a separate person before the Dax became part of her. And what tranny would consider it a compliment for someone to go 'Come along, 'Old Man', we've got work to do.'?
>>
EMH MARK 2 - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 21:05:13 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59607 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59606
Look mate, the entire point is that these are no perfect one-on-one mirror images. They're explorations of social conventions. But here's the thing: Jadzia made me equate her gender issues to an actual transgender person before said person even realized himself.

I'd say that counts for something. So stop nitpicking.
>>
Willie Hawkins - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 21:23:07 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59609 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59607
>stop nitpicking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzExWz7KP5M
>>
Sarek - Sat, 03 Jun 2017 22:01:41 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59610 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59606
Actually, Sisko calling Dax 'Old Man' is exactly like calling a tranny their preferred gender, because Dax isn't trans-gender, she's trans-individual. When Sisko says 'Old Man' he is respecting her identity by acknowledging 'hey you're actually the same guy even tho now you're a qt and not a wrinkly old fag.' But the context of it makes the real world issue stick out like a sore thumb. It's really a brilliant piece of design, even if it was unintentional.
>>
EMH MARK 2 - Sun, 04 Jun 2017 02:49:38 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.59611 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59609
Sorry if I was a bit sour. Read about the London attack between making those posts. Neither you nor Sarek are wrong, really. These character are close to real life concepts, but not quite there. But close enough to fit.

I never saw this about Jadzia until this person transitioned, but since then I can't help but wonder how I ever watched these overt gender-based points the character makes without batting an eye.

>>59610
Sisko is also an extremely close friend, and a lot of early episodes mention how other people see their relationship as awkward. And that happens in real life, too. It really is quite brilliant. I'm certain they didn't fully intend it, as with Data and autism, but that's the beauty of this style of writing. It's relevant because it comments on humanity and its issues, not because it ticks diversity boxes and then refuses to dig deeper.
>>
Sarek - Sun, 04 Jun 2017 05:35:55 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59612 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59611
I'm *really* hesitant to make this post, especially since it's 100% pure organic alt-right ammunition, but I intend it purely as a dispassionate artistic observation but I guess since we're in the /pol/ containment thread on the subject of DS9, I'll bring this up so I don't feel the need to mention it again.
As the Cardassians always seemed to me to be a projection of the west's insecurities about rising middle-east powers in the 90's, and thus the larger context of economic warfare, after the episode where Odo meets Laas and it's clear they have pretty hot gay man blob love for each other, I realized; the Dominion is gay. Or rather, the Dominion is a subconscious psychological projection of the average westerner's uncertainty about the emergence to prominence of LGBT rights as a cultural movement and political force in the 90s, and thus the larger context of the culture war.

After that lightbulb it all started to fall into place. Think about it:
>>Obviously the Odo/Laas thing I already mentioned
>>The Changelings: a formerly oppressed people who were hunted across the galaxy and shunned for being different/just being themselves, who, having finally achieved a position of power, now orchestrate affairs from behind the scenes to ensure they can never be threatened again
>>The Changeling philosophy is all based around the idea that 'we have this capacity for a kind of sensation and being other lifeforms don't possess, and so we can never be like them; we must control them for survival'
>>So naturally they specialize in creating other beings tailor made to fulfill their respective needs for protection and control, Jem'Hadar and Vorta. All of this is but a buffer against a threat now perceived galaxy wide, when really all the Changeling's care about is each other and sharing forms in the link.
>>As the Cardassians are reptilian, angular, sand colored art, so are the Dominion effete, organically shaped, and purple.
Now, I'm not ascribing any kind of validity to this kind of subconscious fear manifestation, or in any way suggesting it was conscious or deliberate. I'm just suggesting that it may well have been the psychological 'first link' of the idea that evolved into the Dominion (which is logical. If the Dominion was always intended to be the anti-Federation, to put to the test the Federation ideal, then a both logical and narratively satisfying starting point; 'we're essentially exactly what you are, yet look how evil we've become.')

Hides from the inevitable shitstorm and preemptively regrets the post
>>
Gul Macet - Sun, 04 Jun 2017 06:47:10 EST ID:Ih6tZZNe No.59613 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59612
>gay
You mean Jew right? That fits Jew a lot better.
>>
Jossen - Sun, 04 Jun 2017 11:38:18 EST ID:O+vrOxhM No.59614 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59613

Maybe they're gay AND jewish.

I dunno though. I see what >>59612 is saying but I don't think the comparison can be applied to the Changelings as a whole, although as an bi I kinda feel like Odo's situation can be compared to someone who feels conflicted between the LGBT world and the "straight" world since one of this main conflicts is the feeling that he often doesn't feel at home in neither and even disagrees with the actions the two groups do.
>>
Jossen - Sun, 04 Jun 2017 11:42:39 EST ID:O+vrOxhM No.59615 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59614
I should add that that sort of thing isn't exclusive to bisexual people obv and is more or less a common theme among outcasts in general.
>>
Ensign Vorik - Sun, 04 Jun 2017 21:18:54 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59616 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59614
>>viz other changelings
Sure, it's not something that's "there" unquestionably, just something that you can read between the lines. But consider the female changeling episodes where she's screwing Odo. Don't those have a lot of vibe of the idea of gay people trying to 'recruit' straight people with hot butt sex that was kinda mixed up into the whole issue back then? (and of course nowadays seems absurd, that gay people actively try to recruit straight people like it's the military. But look back around that time, it was a widely circulated meme.)

>>59613
>>You mean Jew right? That fits Jew a lot better.
Naw, if we're going to start assigning racist stereotypes, it's indisputable who the Jews in space are ....
<----
>>
Noah Lessing - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 05:07:36 EST ID:G2u7jWde No.59618 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59616
Ferengi are more your typical landlord arrogant control-freak Orthodox Jew.
The Changelings are more the globalist Rothschild/Soros/Koch Jew.

>'cause my sex junk is so oh oh oh much more than either or'
Sounds Changeling to me, (((Rachel Bloom)))
>>
Sarek - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 05:39:17 EST ID:5ockzHQp No.59619 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You guys are right though. I had never noticed the globalist jew/changeling connection. It makes total sense.
The only thing that would make it more realistic is if the Jem Hadar had originally given them their homeworld.
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Biddle Coleridge - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 08:59:50 EST ID:u6JUU1Gl No.59621 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59619
The Jem'Hadar are the cynical American Military, still ng for greater Israel.
The Vorta are your typical judeo-christian religious right shill, complete with the 'bless those who bless jehovah' parallel with their origin myth.
The Son'a are vapid Cali goys, both technology-using technologiless hippies, and plastic surgery vain media types, complete with blue screen backdrop inhabitances.
The Dosi are your general sportsball normies.

Not sure about who the Cardassians are in this. Probably Turkey.
>>
DaiMon Solok - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 13:02:32 EST ID:8FgLhA1a No.59622 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Also in case anyone isn't aware, the Vulcan handsymbol is a crypto-jewish benediction hand sign used by rabbis. The 'live long and prosper' as a capstone is implicitly statingg that every encounter Spock summarizes with it is essentially a lesson by Jews for the masses.

'Let us educate you on your future goy'
>>
Commander Suran - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 14:30:27 EST ID:BySfnLmT No.59623 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59622
Pretty sure it's just because Nimoy was Jewish and he saw a weird gesture that takes most people a little while to learn.

Just think of the increase in children's dexterity from learning it.

It was originally a simpler gesture, just the flat hand. Then Nimoy made it exotic.
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Ensign Samantha Wildman - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 15:01:36 EST ID:AgzMmTaQ No.59624 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59623
You're just not woke enough.
>>
Ensign Vorik - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 16:37:43 EST ID:NsYbbNZU No.59626 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>59624
Holy Moses I really do sincerely regret my post at this point. Everybody who made Trek was a Jew! Nimoy was a Jew, Shatner and Koenig are Jews. The Jews in space are the Federation! And here I thought you guys were mensches....

Also what Suran says is 100% true. The sign of Shin is what could be called a mudra (esoteric hand posture) that represents the most holy letter of the hebrew alphabet, Shin ש . There's a part in orthodox ceremonies where the rabbi makes two signs of Shin over the Torah, the congregation is supposed to close their eyes because of how holy it is, but of course, rebellious young Nimoy looked anyway. He thought the sign was so cool he was desperate to find something to use it in; and then Trek came along.

You goyim need to get with it. Racist jokes aside, I think probably the parallel we are most meant to draw with Israel/Jews in trek is clearly Bajor/Bajorans. That was kinda the whole point of their plot thread (and thus Cardassians become Palestinians, or secular authoritarian arab states like I've always contended they best represent.)
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Admiral Alidar Jarok - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 17:57:44 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59628 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59626
Nah, Bajor's Armenians. Israel is the Changelings, remember? Space Palestinians don't exist, at least not anymore.
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Kai Winn - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 18:43:34 EST ID:K6pRQ8/j No.59629 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59626
No way man clearly the trek jews are the Farengi. Bajorans are broke nose space terrorists. They are the worst, remove hasperat. They get fanatical about religion and constantly blow stuff up. sound familliar? They Islam, dah MOOslim.
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Maihar'du - Mon, 05 Jun 2017 23:14:52 EST ID:hS7bKeSv No.59630 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59629
As with any good Trek thing, real-world stereotypes are not 1:1. Ferengi money-grubbing capitalist ways cherry picks from both "Rich Jew" and "WASP old-money" stereotypes.

The Bajorans only represent the Jewish people in the fact they had a recently restored homeland and also genocide. But their use of terrorist tactics (extended into the Maquis) actually more closely related to like the IRA or potentially the Islamic Terrorism that plagues our world today.
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K'Ehleyr - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 00:53:21 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59631 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59630
Nah, Jews used terrorist attacks too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
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Admiral Nechayev - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 02:09:00 EST ID:52qIw6x9 No.59634 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59630
Yea it's true, they did. I got very interested in ww2 and auxiliary events related to it, the Jews fought hardcore, and some would argue dirty (I certainly would), to get Israel. Now, saying that, I don't hold it against them. They fought a war, they won the war. Much like the founding fathers fought and beat the indians, of which I partially descend, (more white than indian, but it's there, unless my grandmother is lying, which I don't believe, she had too many details for it to be bs imo) for the US. I don't condone it, but I accept it, and I refuse to let bitterment enslave me and make me a fool. Israel is under Jewish control, and despite philosophical disagreements I have with Zionism, I'd be a fool to say it's not better that way. They are our only dependable ally in the middle east. We need them, and they need us. It's just the way it is. The past cannot be changed, the horrors of the past can not be erased, every people has it's horror story, its trail of tears, its frech revolution (which was not as hip as it sounds. Many, many innocents died. Horrifically. Entire families.), its Hutu and Tutsi moment(s). I refuse to let that destroy the future.
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K'Ehleyr - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 02:24:09 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.59635 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59634
>They are our only dependable ally in the middle east.
Well except for the three times they spied on us.
And the USS Liberty.
And the escalation of conflict in Syria through ISIS.
And the intervention in our politics through lobbyist campaigns, arguing that we can't have a border wall for our violent invader problems but they can.
And the fact that they haven't sent one single troop to assist us in any of the wars we've fought in part on their behalf in the Middle East.
And if you don't count Saudi Arabia as a strategic ally (though the Judeo-Muslims have their own bullshit too).
And ignoring the billions we send to them.
And ignoring all the times the politicians have called us cattle and slaves to their ambitions.

Also I didn't say anything about bitterness over Israel killing a bunch of arabs, just that they bombed shit too so if we were to associate the Israelis with the Bajorans it could work too.
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Arik Soong - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 03:17:58 EST ID:Wd8rz2aM No.59637 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59634
You've laid out a really excellent argument against your own conclusion.
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Michael Rostov - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:00:26 EST ID:MsJSyrYf No.60309 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What would a Star Trek made by a man with alt-right political beliefs look like?
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Trentin Fala - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 16:14:25 EST ID:jx73MIT5 No.60311 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>60309

A male captain leading a surprisingly diverse crew who all believe in the central tenants of Star Fleet and work to accomplish exploration / trade against competing races and empires.

It would be somewhat masturbatory in terms of nationalism and US exceptionalism. It would toss out identity politics altogether and try to focus on solving or discussing more complex issues.

Most of the plots would involve the ship finding societies that had "achieved" a perfect balance (socialism) but at great cost to the humanity of the society. The captain would time and again destroy the agent of centralized control and tell the people they were free.

Basically it would be Star Trek the Original Series.
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Subcommander Velal - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:15:33 EST ID:htEtR1vu No.60312 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Is it even possible to be a Star Trek fan and legitimately be a racist?

Look I've been to /pol/ most of it is just really shitty shitty racist humor and not a real political movement...

But like seriously... how can you be a fan of star trek AND a racist? That seems like a contradiction in terms.. The whole point of Star Trek is that "race is stupid and we all get it now" vis-a-vis the human race...

So uh... wat.
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Corporal R Ryan - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:43:52 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.60313 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Oh this thread's still here?
>>60309
>>60311
Basically, it's less moral piece and more space adventure and generational story with morality mixed in. No more bogged down with 'wow look at this trans right parallel' it's more lore-focused and plays on a more easily explored galaxy and the context of a shrinking one (by perception). A legendary crew is slowly replaced with the wide-eyed generation past coming to grips with a galaxy gone mad and having to deal with the consequences of the mess made for them.

The Spock/Kirk parallel is now an ensign that slowly works to Captain over the season, and his older Romulan confidant who initally tags along as in the wake of the opening story as a maiden voyage passenger but stays on as a cultural advisor and tactical assistant in deputation. The counter to years of doctrine and dogma from the Academy, the first voice in a while that's made him consider 'but what if instead...' The voice of emotion and cunning in an overtly logical and dogmatic Federation. The series regards the Captain as less of a focal point than the context for this younger generation growing behind them. The ship is mostly out of their control and action until later seasons, and it's only with time that actions are not mandates but decisions by the main cast.

There's political parallels, but it's more allegory that tokens or morality plays. The 'gay captain' or 'black captain' or whatever isn't in mind, it's playing by the rules of the game, competence above all. Islamic culture parallel involves sentient fire, dust and water in space and faraway barbarian people. It's not a celebration of what Roddenberry is, but an exploration of what is the end result, and what steps would need to get to it, given the reality of race, and the divides of culture. Why don't other species have the racial diversity we do? And why despite that is everyone in Star Trek a white-presenting intellectual?

tl;drSection 31 is Jews in Space, implicitly. Genetic Engineering is banned because they hold the keys to it in its long-since perfected process, and have been 'fixing' the species of the galaxy for hundreds of years, including our own. Without a parallel, a planet's multiracial state of existence is replaced by a racial hegemon or totality, and begins expanding from there. Hence only a few Black Vulcans, the Remans and Aenar had such a bad rap, and why you don't see a lot of variation in anyone else but us. It's not that you can't see it, people can tell differences in subspecies of lots of animals, it's that it isn't there anymore.
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Corporal R Ryan - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:29:49 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.60314 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60312
Because we grew up with a series and enjoyed it, and still do for the story, but realized the utopian dream isn't addressing the reality of race and culture, and despite that can still be enjoyed. Black people welfare killed the Apollo missions.

Also... stop... abusing... ellipses... you... faggot...
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Captain Paul Rice - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 23:29:30 EST ID:zU1cBeGT No.60315 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60309
Enterprise
>>
Captain Paul Rice - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 01:21:19 EST ID:zU1cBeGT No.60320 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60313
the first two sentences were okay then you just devolved into a pile of wtf are you talking about my dude with schizo level alex jones style jewish conspiracy theories
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Lt. Darien Wallace - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 05:59:31 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.60325 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60312
This question always boggles my mind. Why? Because Star Trek is dead set against exceptionalism of any kind, including MORAL exceptionalism. Well, most of the time. Early TNG definitely got into it a little, but it was still against this backdrop where the Federation tried to work within the cultures of the people it felt itself above. Even atrocious episodes like Code of Honor, and Up the Long Ladder show a measure of cultural sensitivity. Even if it is, with the latter, by promising people they get to sleep with tons of women.

>The whole point of Star Trek is that "race is stupid and we all get it now" vis-a-vis the human race

That's just you projecting your own viewpoints on this series. There are numerous episodes that explore the viewpoints of people outside the Federation, and how they would arrive at those viewpoints, without condemning them.

Star Trek might condemn racism, but it never condemns the racists. There's even this very on-the-nose episode of Voyager, where Neelix gets fully pissed about space racism putting people from one species in jail in this multi-race semi-Federation culture. And at the end the dude that got him invested turns out to be a manipulative liar who takes him hostage the moment he sees an oppertunity to escape. Definitely one of the better Neelix episodes, too. Neelix always becomes a better character when they give him the oppertunity to be a bit more down to Earth.

The funny part is, those "racists" seem to overwhelmingly prefer DS9, and consider Sisko to be the best Captain. That alone shows that there's more to "racism", or what you call "racism", than racial hatred alone. In my experience, "racism" is a huge buzzword these days. It's political. If you are any form of right wing that is considered unacceptable by people with power on the left, you're a "racist". And the way I've seen people with self-professed anti-racist attitudes act is about as un-Star Trek as it gets. And the lack of effort to understand others with different viewpoints is definitely part of it. And that's what the accusation of racism is very easy to use for. Why ask yourself why what you think is a good idea is not universally accepted when you can just accuse the other party of being inherently evil?

For instance, take someone I know. He voted for a right wing party. A small party that is barely represented in parliament. He is also a student at the University, and talked with random people in the library after the elections. So of course people asked what he voted, and he answered honestly. Some of them either called him a "Nazi" or walked away without saying another word. Are those the people that, according to you, hold the lone right to call themselves Star Trek fans?

I think not. And at the same time when Star Trek was shilling fully in favour of racial equality, it was also shilling fully against left wing idealism (that is, communism). The world isn't as black and white as you want it to be. No pun intended.

I already live in a reality where a politician was assassinated because both his colleagues and the media kept insisting he was a racist, and where people openly approved of that, because he was supposedly a racist. I'm very wary of this political tactic of labelling everyone you don't agree with to be a racist, especially according to nebulous metrics. So the question I'm asking myself is, are the people you consider to be racist really racist, or is it just easy and comfortable for you to call them racist, rather than examine their points of view?

And that's what Star Trek means to me. Question everything. Especially things people don't want you to question. The entire point of the show is that the utopian society they live in is made possible by everyone maintaining it, through their own actions, of their own free will. The moment you slack off and sit back, saying "well, they're just X or Y, and therefore we shouldn't listen to them" is the moment you ignore everything Star Trek has ever stood for.
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Lon Suder - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:06:30 EST ID:npbZY5Cg No.60461 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The reason we have racist star trek fans is because star trek isn't heavy handed or overt in its examinations of racism, and so it leaves for some to enjoy it without realizing what it's doing.

At least that's my guess. Tbh I just kinda write whatever is on my mind when I'm on the K-white
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Lt. JG Saavik - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:15:31 EST ID:0LBKrNiK No.60462 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60461

there is no such thing as a racist star trek fan.
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Major Rakal - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:58:16 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.60463 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Literally all of these stupid stories are idiotic "journalists" responding to trolls on twitter.
If you take this shit seriously you have got to be naive.
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Persis - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 21:29:33 EST ID:3tDF89b4 No.60464 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60463
>Literally all of these stupid stories are idiotic "journalists" responding to trolls on twitter.
This.
Desperate, cynical, more detrimental than the trolls themselves.

Hell, since Ghostbusters 2016 we know that even the STUDIOS use this shit to garner sympathy or outrage or whatever it is from whoever they think their audience is.
Caught deleting sensible criticism and leaving up sexist/racist shitposts. It's reverse-astroturfing. Not making their online social media environment civil, but distilling out the hate because it gets free press and sympathy from people who don't know what trolling is, why people do it or that the fundamental mark of a loser in a fight with a troll is using more words, more resources, and more effort on your responses to some shitposts that literally took 8 seconds to write.

Trolling is the art of effort amplification.

Should it be whomever? I give no fucks but I think so.
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Persis - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 21:32:28 EST ID:3tDF89b4 No.60465 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59398
>You know sometimes I regret not starting my campaign to troll these people along with the SJW types.

Why didn't I do this? I could have amplified so motherfucking hard. I could have amplified off the racists who would then be amplified by the dumb journos and then I could have blown the lid off the whole thing.

They probably would have condemned me but again I give no fucks. I did 8 months ago, and that was a mistake.
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Joret Dal - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 01:37:09 EST ID:htEtR1vu No.60469 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60325
I don't understand your premise.

You seem to be basing your very long tirade? on the idea that I'm projecting a moral factor into Star Trek.

Gene Roddenberry was very clear and very frank and his futurism in those terms. Writers have spoken at length about the idea of 'within the human species, all the races get along and not longer have any prejudices.' I defer to Chaos on the Bridge which is a documentary about the creation of TNG...

Beyond that I will say this... I like DS9. I'm not a raciiist. I honestly didn't understand what your whole point was? That racists prefer the black captain? Oh something about morality? I just like Sisko because he's the lead actor on star trek who actually has passion? And acts like a person? And the whole show is war diplomacy? which is awesome! So I don't get what your whole thing is here sir... with all due respect.

And insofar as your friend. Well I'm not sure that University is doing much sir. If a person calls another person a Nazi they have to actually have evidence to rationalize the statement. That's if the context is one that is serious and not a feckless political discussion between emotional people.

On the whole sir your entire tirade appears to rest on this idea that I'm trying to create some kind of grand no true scotsman fallacy about people who choose to watch star trek.

I based that statement on an understanding that Star Trek and Sci-Fi in general has it's laurels, generally speaking, in social progress and diversity, a priori. I mean I'm sorry if you disagree okay dude.
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Guinan - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 02:13:33 EST ID:GygX1Icc No.60473 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>60469
>Roddenberry says there's no racism among the different filthy hue mon breeds
>Harry Kim never gets promoted after saving the ship dozens of times because he is from the slant eye clan and the captain is from some other pinkish clan
>Hue mons of the dark beigish middle eastern clan do not appear in the federation minus two exceptions. Perhaps this is because they were reduced greatly in number during one of Earth's many barbaric conflicts since they seemed to have a predilection for religious warfare
>Data bullies Picard for his french heritage

Checkmate atheists, according to modern standards Trek is incredibly racist and needs an action based soft reboot to pave over all previous incarnations of the franchise in order to unracist the whole enchilada . If you disagree with this post you are also racist. If you agree with this post.. you still might be racist.
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Admiral Owen Paris - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 10:31:06 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.60480 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60469
The point is that a lot of the people who are called "racist" aren't actually racist. So when you say that you can't understand that racists like Star Trek, maybe you ought to question why they're called racists, not why they like Star Trek. I'm warning you of dismissing people's opinions and concerns simply because you can slap an easy label on them. Which is a theme I see constantly return in Star Trek, hence my annoyance at seeing it ignored while tauting Trek's values.

And stop calling me "sir". I'm not your dad, it doesn't make you sound kind or intelligent, and frankly comes across as a little condescending.

>>60473
Well, I've said it before, but TNG had a huge blind spot with cultural sensitivity when they made Up The Long Ladder, which was basically a minstrel show with the Irish. Yet no-one seems to hate it for that reason, while they do with Code of Honor, despite that episode not actually being racist in the traditional sense. In fact, they're a lot like Klingons. Who also have dark skin. That's something that has always bothered me in the context of Star Trek's reputation for fighting prejudice. Not so much that they did it, but that people walk past it to complain about an episode that didn't actually mock the people it was depicting the way Up The Long Ladder did. Not to mention Voyager did it again, with gusto.

As a European, I often see this with American media. We're culturally close, so Americans seem to think that we're adequately represented by white Americans, and also free game to make fun of. But at least that callousness made sure they never went full Chakotay on us. The one thing worse than those Irish charicatures I can think of is some vaguely European hybrid with random customs from across the continent, while everyone insists he's so spiritual. The one thing worse than naked insults is insincere praise. What kind of facial tattoo would Eurokotay even have? The Union Jack? A German Imperial eagle?
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Persis - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:11:07 EST ID:3tDF89b4 No.60481 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60480
The biggest problem with the social justice community is the creeping forward of terms like racist and nazi.
Like, a lot of times they actually just condemn or dismiss people saying relatively benign shit who could probably be persuaded.

JonTron comes to mind. He tried to espouse the virtues of western culture over countries like Iran where his mom has to wear a headscarf but he just sort of blundered into alt-right talking points by saying things like white culture instead of western culture.
He's a clear example of someone who needs some further reflection, but why not condemn him, kick him out of the network he founded and poke fun at his alleged cocaine problem?
UHHH it's called punching Nazis, and it's ALWAYS fine.

>>60473
I got it.

>>60325
Some people seem to think that by inverting racism, it makes it less racist. And no I'm not screeching about white genocide. But some people seem to think that blind positivity toward those historically oppressed by racism makes them virtuous, but it's actually just another form of racism.

I saw a comment thread on some NowThisHer video in which feminists were praising gulf states for killing rapists. The same gulf states that flog rape victim's skin off and imprison them, hang gays from cranes and are fully-fledged, full-power patriarchal countries.
There's nothing more despicable than a feminist who would fight tooth and nail against the fading spectre of western patriarchy and turn a blind eye to the much more threatening middle-eastern patriarchy as some kind of penance for our nation's prejudices against muslims.
It's bizarrely ethno-centric and it heavily conflates the hatred of muslim people, which is despicable with the hatred of patriarchal muslim theocracy, which is virtuous, right, and a moral imperative for any true feminist.

Why are so-called "woke" people so fucking ignorant sometimes?
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Lt. JG Saavik - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:27:01 EST ID:0LBKrNiK No.60482 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60481
Sociologist here.
The modern SJW movement conflates micro and macro levels of analysis, and shifts toward one definition or the other depending on the conversation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_analysis

It is extremely frustrating. Just because western culture privileges euro-looking people (macro) does not mean a black dude calling a white dude a cracker is not racist (micro).

Anyway, this is what happens when the literature department runs off with sociological tools and is allowed to engage in statecraft. They are the lit department. This is why they keep referring to harry fucking potter. nb.
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Persis - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 11:52:35 EST ID:3tDF89b4 No.60483 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60482
>The modern SJW movement conflates micro and macro levels of analysis
Yeah I was thinking this in the car last week.
The line that racism = power + privilege is so frustrating. That's big-picture institutional scale racism and it's not the only kind.

Maybe nuTrek can explore that type of shit, because that's the kind of Roddenberry-esque allegorical commentary we could use right now.
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Admiral Owen Paris - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 12:12:35 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.60485 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60481
Frankly, I think a lot of these people don't want to persuade anyone, unless persuading means they will magically march in lockstep with what they think. You see this when there is dissent among their own ranks. They're interested in policing people's opinions, not engaging them. Politics certainly weren't very rational to begin with, too. You see the same thing with American Republicans who want government out of everything, except bathrooms.

And speaking for my own nation, prejudices against muslims only arose as a reaction to mass immigration. So that entire discussion here is massively loaded. But you see the same thing: Criticism of the immigration policy is always taken as naked racism. But that's just the broken record argument we've been hearing for years, now. Like I said, it already got someone killed, here.

>>60483
This is an example of what I mean, because these people don't actually practice their own definitions. They only apply it to America and Europe. But in Africa, black people are the majority and hold political power. South Africa has some serious anti-white racism, and some of it is institutional. Literally.

These people don't talk about it, and when you bring it up, they come up with reasons why it's actually a good thing. They use that definition of racism because it allows them to freely lash out at white people, not because they actually believe in it. Well, I mean, they do. But they don't apply it logically and equally. Their own rules stop applying when they can't be used to accuse white people of being racist.

Which is racist. And worse, it turns racism into a "boy who cried wolf" kind of deal. Now, when someone claims racism, I don't think there's real racism. I think there's left wing extremism.
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Joret Dal - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 19:31:43 EST ID:htEtR1vu No.60490 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60480

Well I'm done with this thread.

And you, SIR, ARE in fact a condescending faggot. I use sir for formality.

DONE WITH THIS NOW.
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Senator Tal'aura - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 19:55:19 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.60491 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60480
>What kind of facial tattoo would Eurokotay even have? The Union Jack?
that would look badass
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General Martok - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 05:55:26 EST ID:6C6kcMFd No.60495 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60490
Allow me to quote myself.

>The entire point of the show is that the utopian society they live in is made possible by everyone maintaining it, through their own actions, of their own free will. The moment you slack off and sit back, saying "well, they're just X or Y, and therefore we shouldn't listen to them" is the moment you ignore everything Star Trek has ever stood for.

And that's what you're doing right now. Don't just leave this thread. Leave this board. You don't belong here. If this were an episode of Star Trek, you'd be the villain.

Sir.

>>60491
How about a nice, big Fleur de Lis?
>>
Gun Runner Sakonna - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 11:17:44 EST ID:0LBKrNiK No.60499 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60495

I read this in Martok's voice. nb because cancer.
>>
The Doctor - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 14:22:02 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.60501 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>60495
>How about a nice, big Fleur de Lis?
as long as you wear it well
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Gantt - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 22:00:56 EST ID:GctQzjZV No.60502 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60309
Apparently 80s Electronica nods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62WXBkDdImg
>>
Phlox - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 01:18:06 EST ID:q3XMUiXr No.60503 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60502
>Richard Spencer 80's Electronica Karaoke

I want off this gay earth. Don't let that faggot taint 80's dance music.
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Guinan - Thu, 05 Oct 2017 17:46:00 EST ID:PNj/aHhh No.61475 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60503
can you really taint something that's already shit?
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Q - Mon, 09 Oct 2017 22:04:25 EST ID:LJoPxYj1 No.61622 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>59635
Look, the Jews HATE US!

They uses us for their own benefit, but like just about everyone in the Middle East, they HATE US.

It's time to cut off the ENTIRE Middle East because they have hated the west for thousands of years and always will.
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Q - Mon, 09 Oct 2017 22:11:42 EST ID:LJoPxYj1 No.61624 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>60325
And Sisko doesn't act like a ghetto thug.

As a Black person, a lot of our culture really sucks.

Geordie didn't go from Anonymous LT.JG to Chief Engineer of the flagship because of his race.

He got there by working hard, studying hard and being better than the people who started out above him.
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Tokath - Mon, 09 Oct 2017 22:12:22 EST ID:ZlJp0gcI No.61625 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61622
Why would you bump this fucking thread for that?

nb
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DaiMon Solok - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:44:22 EST ID:nuPPHgen No.61632 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61624
This.
Starfleet is a meritocracy in a future where all kids start out with optimal resources. Unlike, you know, real America, where "FUCK YOU! I'M WHITE!" rules
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Keiko O'Brien - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 01:53:16 EST ID:yvrU8voG No.61634 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61632
Yeah, Starfleet is also a place where Gene Roddenberry wrote in token characters for every major continent in the world.

Also Geordi's merit as chief engineer stems significantly from having a fully equipped sensor array plugged into his frontal lobes. Also Roddenberry wrote him too young for his rank, which was kind of one of many mistakes they made early on.
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Guinan - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 03:41:19 EST ID:X3H1Dm4S No.61638 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61634
>Keiko O'Brien
>this negative ass post
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Sarek - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:26:31 EST ID:jIY7f9Al No.61645 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>61638
O'Brien would kick Geordi's ass both physically and at any kind of engineering that doesn't involve seeing the eddys and flow of the warp plasma currents.
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DaiMon Solok - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:56:54 EST ID:nuPPHgen No.61646 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61634
>Roddenberry wrote him too young for his rank,

Which is weird, since Levar Burton is 60 now. Age-wise wasn't he playing down?

Also, black obviously doesn't crack with Levar. Dude is still looking pretty young.
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Sarek - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:03:40 EST ID:jIY7f9Al No.61647 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>61646
They backed off a bit but you can see in the test footage they tried Geordi out SUPER young. I don't think he was supposed to be chief engineer, but he was gonna be this young prodigy type that Wesley Crusher became.

Still Geordi is the youngest dude in engineering and he's in charge. You can't really beat someone who can see the consoles getting ready to explode. That's your leader. And even if he isn't, that's someone you will ALWAYS listen to.
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DaiMon Solok - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:08:57 EST ID:nuPPHgen No.61649 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61647
So...why didn't everyone get visor tech down there. I can't imagine they couldn't have made it like a VR rig. What with it being the future. Keep your eyes and still see shit about to go down!
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Lt. Cmdr. Jack Crusher - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:06:50 EST ID:SIbcZBdI No.61653 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61649

>Data: Commander, Leutenant LaForge's eyes are far superior to human biological eyes, true?

>Picard: Yes.

>Data: Then why are not all human officers required to have their eyes replaced with cybernetic implants?

>Picard: *troubled look*

>Data: I see. It is precisely because I am not human.
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Dr. Leah Brahms - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:33:42 EST ID:2xTrbl/0 No.61675 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61645
I dunno.

Picard picked Geordi for his work ethic. He was definitely good at his job and solved a lot of problems throughout the series. He was the right guy for the job. Now O Brien is the fucking man and literally personifies what the dominion consider the federation's most dangerous soldiers, I'm not disputing that but just because someone else is better than you it doesn't make you bad though. I don't doubt O Brien would also have outwitted the Pakleds

Also you're comparing DS9 season 7 O Brien with season 1 Geordi. Even at the start of DS9 O Brien probably only got the job because no one else wanted to work in a backwater shithole. I imagine he learned most of his skills reading manuals during his long shifts at the transporter because in season 1 TNG he was mostly a tactical officer just like Geordi and hadn't really proven much.

>>61647
Lol also this. To be fair 2Vac tried to save a guy and he ignored him but enginerds tend to respect each other's judgment I have known a lot of these sort of people while bridge crew are all ego.
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Spot - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:57:51 EST ID:sov4E+0Z No.61676 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61675

Well to be fair, I don't think they'd written in all of O'Brien's combat medals at that point.

He's essentially a perfectly good backup for either Worf or Geordi.
O'Brien is a guy who can beam you off your own bridge through shields and beat the shit out of you.
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Dr. Leah Brahms - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 14:58:22 EST ID:2xTrbl/0 No.61680 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61676
Yeah, but that's part of my point. O Brien in season 1 was a weaker choice than Geordi. They gradually built him up when the character did well. If you retcon someone badass you can't then blame the writers for ignoring shit they hadn't written.

But also that I genuinely do think he grew as an engineer in time. Geordi was always an engineer. Right out of starfleet. At the end of the day if I was captain of a star ship and I got assigned either of them to my crew I would not call up admiralty and say "Hey, you didn't give me a good head of engineering candidate". I'd be all "WOO WEE".
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Benjamin Sisko - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:15:12 EST ID:nuPPHgen No.61681 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61680
O'Brien is just Geordie with working eyes and a sex drive. Think about it. Laforge never really got the poon, but O'Brien has a wife and a kid. The whole deal.

I think, as the evolved, Geordie became more of a wunderkind, while O'Brien is more of an everyman who worked his way up. Geordie was always gifted. O'Brien seems more grounded and probably had to study and work a lot harder to get where he was. At the same time, he arguably has it better off socially than the guy who has a robot as a best friend, and would be considered an Aspie if the writers wrote him more realistically.

tl;dr - Laforge is an Aspie with social skills while O'Brien is just an everyman who works hard and will get fucked up on a night out with the boys.

And yeah, both are great to have on a ship. Both get shit done!
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Emperor Kahless - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 01:56:08 EST ID:sQLio0UG No.61792 Ignore Report Quick Reply
just saw "If Stars should appear," and I have to say, it's real scifi, quite good, surprising really
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Emperor Kahless - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 01:57:15 EST ID:sQLio0UG No.61793 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>61792

oh dear, I must away with this blood wine!


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