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Watching TNG for First Time by Roy Ritterhouse - Fri, 09 Feb 2018 08:08:48 EST ID:ZBzcw/Bu No.63720 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Sup /1701/

Made a thread about this when I started the show but it's fallen off the last page. I've been slowing down my watching because I really don't want to finish it and be out of episodes to watch. Anyway I'm on season 6 and just watch the two-parter Chain of Command. Now I finally know what everyone keeps referencing lol. What a powerful episode. Not to mention Riker's most badass monologue yet when he tells Jellico what a dickhead he is.

Kor - Fri, 09 Feb 2018 09:48:46 EST ID:XFr8qSiV No.63721 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Barely audible intro scenes
>mumble mumble mumble
Herbert Rossoff - Fri, 09 Feb 2018 12:24:05 EST ID:pq4fmJGe No.63724 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1518197045970.jpg -(8082B / 7.89KB, 480x360) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Jellico was exactly what he needed to be in the circumstances. He could get things done and be home in time for corn flakes.
Guinan - Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:18:05 EST ID:eFUmqNsU No.63725 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Whether you have or whether you haven't watched DS9, now might be a good time to start. Early DS9 gets a lot of shit from some here, but it's more like TNG and there s plenty of synergy. Watch season 1 to buy yourself some time maybe? Or interject your TNG with DS9 to ration it out a little
Subcommander N'Vek - Fri, 09 Feb 2018 15:37:37 EST ID:cVeP57wQ No.63727 Ignore Report Quick Reply
There are so many good episodes of TNG but every time I catch it on TV it's one of the soap opera trash filler eps.

Why can't it ever be a Borg episode or Encounter at Farpoint, Chain of Command or motherfuckin' CONSPIRACY?

Like, does television just not run two parters and bitchin' high kick, exploding head episodes?
Also I recall someone recommending watching voyager before TNG but there's a very good reason you shouldn't do that: The Borg. Voyager ruins the Borg as the menacing villains they are in TNG. They're treated very differently and Janeway knows so much about them by the time she gets back that she basically ends the war and forces the Borg to go back in time and makes ST: First Contact happen.

In the grand scheme I am okay with this as First Contact is pretty much the only good TNG movie.
Xerius - Fri, 09 Feb 2018 17:35:16 EST ID:rD6YZAzV No.63729 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This. The crew was whiny.
Major Rakal - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:07:43 EST ID:ZBzcw/Bu No.63732 Ignore Report Quick Reply

i disagree. the crew simply wished to explore all possibilities while jellico was a total warhawk with only military conflict on his mind. although his plans worked out, it could have been a shitshow if he was wrong.
Idrin - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 00:18:42 EST ID:2G6oewNa No.63733 Ignore Report Quick Reply
With very few exceptions whenever I do a rewatch I do the whole thing. Sometimes I will start with Ent>TOS sometimes I will end with ENT it really just depends if I'm doing straight chronological or production order but I will always watch it that way and I think that makes the experience especially in the TNG, DS9, Voy era. The only exception is if I want to watch a single specific episode.

I know there isn't a lot of crossover between the three of them but watching them in production/chronological order really is the best way IMO. It also helps break things up which makes Voy much more enjoyable when you have an episode or two of DS9 between each one with a movie thrown in here and there for good measure.

For me its just not the same to watch a single series straight through.

>There are so many good episodes of TNG but every time I catch it on TV it's one of the soap opera trash filler eps.

Man, its 2018. Take the money you'd spend on your cable bill, buy some hard drives, and start using Usenet and private trackers. You can get 8TB drives for $180 each now. That's like, what, a couple of months of cable? Buy a new drive every couple of months. Once you've filled up your PC then build a server which can be done cheaply and keep growing.

I haven't had cable in years and I have instant access to everything I want and if I don't have it I can get it in minutes. Hell, all of the new releases are even automated so I don't have to do anything. I don't have to worry about cable or internet going out and not having anything to watch, no monthly fees, no issues with content not being on or getting removed from streaming services, etc.
Travis Mayweather - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 06:05:01 EST ID:wb6DETEx No.63736 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>the crew simply wished to explore all possibilities

No time for that shit. That's why Jellico was put in command in the first place. They could've left Riker in charge for some slapdick mission. It's to Captain Jellico's credit that despite the crew's lack of professionalism, he still got the job done.

Three cheers for Jellico, the man who reminded Troi and Riker that they weren't on a Carnival Cruise, gave Data an overdue promotion, and got the fucking job done.
Lt. Talas - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 08:35:12 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.63737 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I feel like he could have done better. But his strength is/was getting the job done. He wasn't a perfect captain but for that mission he was up to the job. I don't see why he couldn't have done what he did without fucking with the crew a bit less but he did get it done. The Admirals knew what they were doing for a change when they assigned him.

I'd watch a series with him and a crew of people like him guest starring Garak every week doing what has to be done. Magnificent bastards of the federation flying around in either a dedicated warship or a specially converted Intrepid with bigger teeth.

Picard was a superb strategist and diplomat and great human being. But sometimes you just need a dick to fuck an asshole to stop it shitting all over everyone. Jellico was that dick and oh boy did he fuck a lot of assholes.
Travis Mayweather - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 09:26:01 EST ID:wb6DETEx No.63739 Ignore Report Quick Reply
He lacked people skills, but I think his humanity shone through by the end of the two parter. I'll always fall on Jellico's side. He didn't ask anything unreasonable, and he was the captain. Things would've gone smoother if everyone just made the changes he requested without bitching to him or Picard. Plus "get it done" is basically the same as "make it so."

Totally agree that him leading a like-minded crew on a more militaristic mission would've made for a good Dominion War era series.
Lt. Talas - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 11:19:30 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.63741 Ignore Report Quick Reply
A good manager doesn't just jump in and expect the a new team to work the same way. Maybe in the military but remember this is starfleet which is not simply military. I feel like there's not a side to take. The crew handle him badly he handles them badly, don't tell Roddenberry because humans being human was something he hated but it's a very human situation. In the end they all sucked for a bit and all came good.
Shakaar Edon - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:27:32 EST ID:cVeP57wQ No.63742 Ignore Report Quick Reply
If I had my computer I wouldn't need to watch cable.
Guinan - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:50:05 EST ID:uMYapax/ No.63748 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Jellico tried to give four shifts rather than three, meaning that everyone would work less hours but more shifts. He wanted people to be fresh and ready, not at the end of a 12 hour shift of staring at data readout have asleep
Minuet - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:09:55 EST ID:knEAr630 No.63749 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Three shifts is 8 hours, not 12.
Zefram Cochrane - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 19:29:55 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.63750 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It wasn't just the shifts but the environment and way he motivated everyone. It's not about changing shifts but his whole approach. Probably how he expected workloads to be managed, responsibility, how the chain of command actually functioned with regards to communication horizontally and vertically (Riker communicates openly with everyone horizontally and vertically as we well know), the atmosphere. His style would filter down because he'd be enforcing his way of doing things on others. If you've ever worked somewhere and had someone come in and change everything before they understood what they changed you'd know it's bedlam fucking private sector consultants frequently don't get the job done but come with the downsides of Jellico

To quote Picard on commanding a ship.
>But it will be your ship; and, being who you are, it will... soon be vibrant with your authority, your style... your vision.
DaiMon Nunk - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:23:07 EST ID:hQCvx/zB No.63756 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I don't think most would argue that his approach lacked grace. However, this wasn't a normal scenario and the crew should've recognized that. A lot of things were being played close to the vest. There wasn't time for a grace period. Military or not, space or nautical, the crew of a ship needs to be loyal to their captain. Jellico had their best interest and even that of Picard's away team in mind. The Enterprise crew was supposed to be composed of some of the best and brightest. The whining and failing to comply with orders was unbecoming. And the man is man enough and humble enough to approach Riker in the end, rather than Riker having to admit he was failing Jellico as an XO. Jellico gets a raw deal.
Captain Kurn - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:41:05 EST ID:ZBzcw/Bu No.63757 Ignore Report Quick Reply

i dont remember any of the crew ever failing to comply with orders, but rather occasionally questioning them. one jellico got tired of their questioning and he just dropped the "fuck your opinion i ORDER you to do it," every crewmember gave a grumpy face and then proceeded to comply with their orders.
DaiMon Nunk - Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:22:36 EST ID:hQCvx/zB No.63761 Ignore Report Quick Reply
When Jellico ordered the 4th duty shift Riker didn't install it, bitched about it, and then had to be told twice.

Jellico said it best himself to Picard:
>"I want this ship ready for action, and I don't have time to give Will Riker or anyone else a chance. And forgive me for being blunt, but the Enterprise is mine now."

The crew, save Data, was unprofessional, and it could've cost lives. Us liking them doesn't make their pouting okay and shouldn't paint Jellico as a heavy.
Zefram Cochrane - Sun, 11 Feb 2018 05:44:34 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.63766 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I disagree. I thought Jellico was alright. If he'd taken a little time to read the crew instead of spending a few days battling them he'd have probably gotten them to suggest half the things he was going to tell them to do.Good managers on competent staff do that. Staff who are on side will be more resilient. Jellico was lucky that shit didn't go wrong outside his plan because the crew in the state it was in with low morale would have responded poorly. You can talk about whining and shit but it doesn't matter. The difference between a crew appearing to comply and being miserable and being miserable is polish on your shit. Shit morale is shit morale and it does affect everything if everyone feels disempowered or unappreciated. You can talk about "Professionalism" all day but Jellico's job includes getting the most out of his crew. They're not military or robots, so data aside that means motivating them and engaging them. Sure he had a great plan but most managers would be able to get their subordinates to dream them up and then would pick and amend the best one. A good manager would just have to suggest that 4 shifts might be better and the crew would jump to do it with a smile on their face.

Jellico's stiff and inefficient approach makes for better TV though. And in the end it's what saves him. He won't fail. It's not humbleness, it's his unwillingness to compromise and his seriousness that gives him the strength to eat Riker's shit and save the day. Did he need to do it that way? But this isn't Gene trek, every captain has their strengths and weaknesses. I like to think that Jellico learned a bit about captaining and so did Riker. In the end they both had to recognise that the other had a point to save Picard and the ship and a lot of lives I suspect. TNG did have a habit of applying character growth quite subtly, so we'd never see if future Jellico was a bit more subtle about his approach to people. Riker was definitely hard on junior officers who didn't do it his way in the future, even himself.
Kalita - Sun, 11 Feb 2018 08:42:56 EST ID:NCqklKYp No.63768 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You ignore that they weren't under normal circumstances. You keep saying they're not military when it was clearly a military negotiation and black op taking place. You toss aside the idea of professionalism as if it's not incumbent on any subordinate in any setting to do what they're told. And you ignore the time crunch they were under. It's easy to talk as if Jellico had time to spare to romance the crew, but he didn't. When Picard went back to the past in All Good Things and asked the crew to do a bunch of shit that made no sense, they raised their eyebrows, asked him if he was sure, but they didn't whine.

This wasn't just a manager taking over at your job, dude. Senior officers should have better bearing. Plus they all served on more than one ship under more than one captain-- surely one of them had a hardass superior in the past. And again, Jellico is the one who is man enough to put the petty bullshit aside when he needs Riker to pilot, showing that he knows how to massage egos and humble himself, he just didn't have time for that nonsense under the circumstances. Disagree with me all you want, but I come from a place of expecting better from our crew. They acted like babies.
Weyoun 4 - Sun, 11 Feb 2018 19:40:26 EST ID:ZBzcw/Bu No.63775 Ignore Report Quick Reply

>a subordinate in any setting should do what they're told

the crew didnt know about the black op. and every objection they raised was completely within their job description. crusher mentioning medbay gonna have many wounded/dead, just a consideration. riker questioning jellico's crazy war plans (he didnt know about the black op), hes the first officer thats his job, it was all within reason.
Commander Tebok - Sun, 18 Feb 2018 10:02:41 EST ID:9Lm/CW9g No.63960 Ignore Report Quick Reply
After rewatching part one on Heroes & Icons, it does paint some of the senior crew in a bad light. Riker not telling Jellico he wasn't adding the 4th shift in was insubordinate, and his aborted attempt to complain to Picard was too. Picard probably would've told him as much. Troi's empathic abilities apparently only work on Jellico when she sense he's not sure of himself during negotiations. She should've been the first one to know that the man was all business, and instead she is surprised when he tells her he doesn't have time to honeymoon the crew and to get herself a uniform. Geordi's complaints and how he makes them do sound whiny. Everything he's asked to do is attainable, as Data dispassionately points out.

It seems as if the crew doesn't care about making a good impression on their new CO. They expect it to work the other way around. From the minute Jellico steps off the transporter Riker is rolling his eyes, showing that he gives Jellico less of a chance than Jellico does Riker. In fact Riker comes across worse because he seems jealous he didn't get command. The title of the episode itself is a reminder that there is indeed a chain of command in Starfleet, and there is no use bitching about it or trying to circumvent it.

And in the end, IIRC part two correctly, once Data is made first officer the ship seems to be running smoothly. At no point are the halls more crowded or is the ship failing to get up to Jellico's expectations or do crewmen look exhausted. The mission is a success and Jellico tells them it was an honor to serve with them. He ended up getting more out of the crew than they thought they had in them, and Troi keeps the uniform. He was a great captain to have everything from the Cardassians to his crew to time working against him and still accomplish a sensitive mission without incident. His kid's pictures remind us that he's probably a good man, but the situation demands he be terse and have the ship ready for heavy combat. I liked Jellico more by the end of this re-watch.

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