420chan now has a web-based IRC client available, right here
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the float Name#Password
Comment
[*]Italic Text[/*]
[**]Bold Text[/**]
[~]Taimapedia Article[/~]
[%]Spoiler Text[/%]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace text[/pre]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Community Updates

420chan now supports HTTPS! If you find any issues, you may report them in this thread

Now Playing on /1701/tube -

The Cage by Deanna Troi - Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:28:10 EST ID:0f+rF4sg No.63987 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1519252090292.jpg -(140892B / 137.59KB, 880x660) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 140892
Can we get a thread going about the pilot that started it all?

Is it Canon?
Is it good?
Did you enjoy it?
>>
DaiMon Birta - Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:31:34 EST ID:gephjk0M No.63994 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Is it Canon?
Visually, no. Also, there's that awkward scene where Nimoy puts a big grin on his face.

It definitely had more promise as a series by modern standards than the other pilot.
Pike is the OG Sisko. A little burnt out, pissed and ready to leave starfleet entirely. Meanwhile I think the Cage is much better than the Menagerie.

As an aside, it's really jarring how much better most of the shots in the Cage look in black and white. They really hadn't nailed the use of color yet.
>>
Kotan Pa'Dar - Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:50:24 EST ID:QYXsFZLe No.63996 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Yes
>>
Persis - Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:38:29 EST ID:ziQ8ybaW No.63999 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>63994
bullshit, it was like 20 years or more before TOS. Spock was still getting his half-vulcan shit together, so a smile here and there is to be expected.
As for the uniforms and so on, look how different the uniforms look between seasons of the 24th century shows by themselves, much less TOS to TOS movies to TNG for example.
>>
DaiMon Birta - Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:36:55 EST ID:gephjk0M No.64001 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>63999
>bullshit, it was like 20 years or more before TOS
Ten and some change actually.
It was an early interpretation and it wasn't picked up. You wouldn't call the first pilot of almost anything canon, visual styles, acting and writing styles change drastically after pilots like that. That's what happened here.

Is it canon? It was a work in progress. It's not fully there. The story is canon, but the Enterprise model, the design, the visual style, and Nimoy's interpretation of Spock were not fully developed, and unfinished.
It's certainly not canon that the nacelles, windows and bridge aren't lit.
But at the same time, the Enterprise sets were finished and look fantastic. Even if it was just two rooms, the bridge and a corridor at the time.

Uniform colors are overwhelmingly gold and it made the composition of bridge shots awkward, and the whole thing is very gray and brown.
I'm not kidding when I say The Cage works a lot better in black and white. It even makes the unlit 3 foot Enterprise model look better. More futuristic even.
>>
Keiko O'Brien - Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:43:32 EST ID:KxYVupkW No.64043 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64001
>>You wouldn't call the first pilot of almost anything canon
But, all those elements you mention are in the Menagerie version, which is in the main series, which means while they may not be perfectly consistent, they are nonetheless canon.

Honestly, the amount of squinting you have to do to accept that The Cage and TOS are in the same universe is infinitesimal compared to the amount you would have to do to imagine that The Cage is occurring concurrently with Discovery, so I would pick your nitpicks.
>>
Thot Pran - Wed, 28 Feb 2018 13:13:14 EST ID:L1oGJlte No.64053 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64043
>compared to the amount you would have to do to imagine that The Cage is occurring concurrently with Discovery
It's not, it's occurring 50 years later in a world with 7 times the pixels that may or may not even have licensing to use prior artwork because some fucking garbage businessmen decided to King Solomon Star Trek in half.
>>
Captain Tel-Peh - Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:05:38 EST ID:wxvIFlM0 No.64055 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64053
Well I know that man, tell it to fucking CBS.
>>
Xerius - Wed, 28 Feb 2018 23:17:47 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64059 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I don't believe I've ever seen it. We don't have it on the playlist in /1701/tube and when I watch TOS on Kodi, The Cage isn't on there under the first season. I guess it's canon but a seperate entity from TOS.
>>
Xerius - Wed, 28 Feb 2018 23:18:59 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64060 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64053
only (((they))) would do something like that when there is literally no monetary value to lose but it's just simply letting something use the likeness
>>
Bernardo Calvera - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 04:45:43 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.64061 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64059
just finished voyager again and starting on tos again because fuck enterprise...watched the cage and yeah its canon idk what the fuck kodi is, but if you buy the original series on dvd or bluray it comes with the cage, same with netflix.
>>
Xerius - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 09:08:30 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64062 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1519913310289.jpg -(17880B / 17.46KB, 416x448) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>64061
>Enjoys Voyager but can't watch Enterprise

Voyager has many of the unanimously worst episodes and by far the unanimously worst bridge crew member. It's a disgusting, filthy pedo van with a "Girl Power" bumper sticker slapped on it.
>>
Michael Jonas - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 09:24:34 EST ID:wxvIFlM0 No.64063 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64060
Wow those parentheses are pretty extreme and I hope you're just being ironic or alternatively can fuck off. Anyway, no, they don't have nothing to lose. US copyright law says that if you don't defend your copyrights enough, you no longer have them. They can't just simply let someone use it, they have to charge for it. Now, it could be that they are charging an unreasonable amount, or that CBS/Bad Robot are being unreasonably stingy, but just letting whatever happen isn't an option for them (that's unfortunately also why they stepped on Axanar, Continues and the rest.)

>>64062
At least it hews more closely to the format TNG established. Yes it cranks out stinkers that way but it also cranks out genuine decent Trek episodes that hang with the best of them. Enterprise mulls about for three seasons 'uhh do we actually want to do a Trek show or not?' 'well....I mean I guess, we're not doing anything else' and then finally realizes hey I'm a Trek show just before it gets shitcanned (with the most unanimously bad finale of any Trek series.) ENT is not your go to guy if you want to call VOY bad.
>>
Bernardo Calvera - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 09:44:34 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.64064 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1519915474420.jpg -(29633B / 28.94KB, 300x621) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>64062
I've watched through enterprise 3 times so that I know it all because its part of the universe but goddamn the show is just terrible.
voyager isn't that great, but its still trek, its got more of a story line than some but they at least have many many episodes that are just random and crazy and entertaining.

>are you implying paris is worse than wesley?????? wat
>>
Tekeny Ghemor - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 15:16:18 EST ID:sov4E+0Z No.64067 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64063
More like Voyager absolutely refused to deviate from the formula TNG established.

Except Voyager has Neelix-tier writing. Seriously just analyse Neelix and realize that none of the show is better written than the chef who doesn't give a shit about your palate and tasks himself with the morale of the crew while he feeds them dirt roots ad nauseum.

Then realize that the entire show is actually Neelix. Shitting up all your favorite things with disgusting Leola roots, prefacing absolutely everything with "some kind of", having no sense of subtlety, always cranking the burners to maximum and dating your hot sister Kes who's dying of the bad writing cancer next year.

There's literally an episode where some cheese Neelix picks up starts sabotashing the ship's systems. And that's what Voyager is. A parasitic cheese microbe that is fucking up everything about Trek, but clings to it for dear life because it can't stand on its own.

And this show was spawned from Deep Space Nine, and featured a half Maquis crew. But the writers forgot about this and never exploited it because the cheese parasite had taken over their brains, and convinced them that Deep Space Nine was unpopular because of its deviancy and that they must never follow in its footsteps, so as to diversify the Star Trek portfolio.
Voyager plays it safe and brings nothing good to the table. When TNG started getting a little bad, it ended. When Voyager started getting even more bad, it went for 2 more seasons so it could continue in the TNG formula with a 7 season run. Voyager wants more than anything to be more of TNG, but it isn't even close.

Fuck Voyager, fuck Paramount, fuck Tom Paris. Can we just declare Voyager not canon?
>>
Borg Queen - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 16:38:53 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.64068 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64063
Advantage of ENT is if you want to watch a good episode you just go to S4, voyager has them scattered around. It's like a pavement that has both various denominations of cash everywhere and dogshit and you've got to wade through dogshit to get to the cash. ENT tries to be trek for the first couple of seasons, it just fails badly. The technological and in universe "ropey newbies out their depth" ends up applying on a meta level. That is not a saving grace it's merely an observation. It's to TOS and TNG themes the same way its tech is to their tech. Voyager has the doctor, seven of fine's character ass (I mean arc) which was badly paced but actually pretty good and er.... TNG has Shran and Phlox and Titpole is one of those characters who grows on you as they develop her like Kira I guess. But without a permanent foil (Kai Hilary) or 7 seasons in which she can both grow but also be explored better.

Someone posted a webm of torres saying to take the cheese to sickbay and it's glorious.

Anyway what I've completely become distracted from is that neither series is that great or completely awful. Both have some very good episodes and some episodes that have all the energy and flavour of half dead RACHT
>>
Admiral William J Ross - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 17:02:41 EST ID:XpvROgnl No.64069 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1519941761663.jpg -(30922B / 30.20KB, 705x541) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>64064
>are you implying paris is worse than wesley?????? wat

Hell yeah he is. That stunt he pulled almost got Wes and that cute Bajoran girl kicked out of the Academy.
>>
Tekeny Ghemor - Thu, 01 Mar 2018 17:22:19 EST ID:sov4E+0Z No.64070 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64068
Watch every single Shran episode. Jeffrey Combs is a pissy little shit on DS9 but he knocks it out of the park with Shran. Shran is the redeeming feature of Enterprise.
>>
Corporal R Richards - Fri, 02 Mar 2018 05:59:25 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.64072 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64069
if only she got kicked out she might still be alive
rip in peace
>>
Khan Noonien Singh - Fri, 02 Mar 2018 13:21:23 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.64073 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64070
I name checked Shran. Coombs throws himself 110% into every role and I like his portrayal of the salubrious Weyoun, ruthless Brunt etc but the pure ham of Shran is definitely the most fun character he's played. I hope he enjoyed it as much as he seems to have.

>>64072
But if she'd not been involved at all she'd also have avoided being on Picard's watch list and would probably have been posted to another ship and also would have lived. There are a lot more timelines, even only altered by different outcomes of that event where she's alive.
>>
Governor Torak - Sun, 04 Mar 2018 07:21:37 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.64092 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64073
no she would have been removed from starfleet and sent back to where bajoran scum belong
>>
Ulani Belor - Sun, 04 Mar 2018 09:02:16 EST ID:TinR0Zso No.64093 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1520172136065.png -(177719B / 173.55KB, 306x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>64092

9END9THE9FED9 6ASSASSINATE6SISKO6
>>
Geordi La Forge - Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:11:58 EST ID:VYdhcYIi No.64138 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>63987
>Is it Canon?
As of its airing on television in the 80s, it is canon. It's no more inconsistent than all the silly shit in TOS and TAS people like to point out, and then forget about because TNG/etc. established something better.
>Is it good? Did you enjoy it?
Strangeness aside, I think it's a good episode.


>>63994
>Also, there's that awkward scene where Nimoy puts a big grin on his face.
Data did the same thing in Encounter at Farpoint. Just trying to adapt.
>>
The Doctor - Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:06:03 EST ID:uru3oj0T No.64224 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>63987
I enjoyed it.
>>
Curzon Odo - Sun, 15 Apr 2018 03:00:24 EST ID:4SeMe49B No.64312 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>is it Canon
How is it not? They even acknowledged it in The Menagerie.
>Is it good
I think it works better when a part of The Menagerie. But as far as Trek pilots go it's pretty decent.
>Did you enjoy it
Yeah
>>
Dr. Telek R'Mor - Sun, 22 Apr 2018 11:37:12 EST ID:1JdVWEfn No.64360 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1524411432960.jpg -(38133B / 37.24KB, 545x545) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
It's probably not good to most non-trek people. It's sort of cheesy, but I like it a lot. It's canon of course.


CANON EVERYWHERE
>>
Cmdr. Kelby - Tue, 24 Apr 2018 15:35:06 EST ID:jbwmAua6 No.64370 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1524598506163.jpg -(116830B / 114.09KB, 630x532) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>64312
but.... The Menagerie is for guests ONLY
>>
Captain Kurn - Thu, 26 Apr 2018 00:10:37 EST ID:FjZ9V2nx No.64381 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>64360
I think most Trek isn't good to non-trek people and cheesy.


Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.