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Did anyone actually watch/like Babylon 5? by Herbert Rossoff - Mon, 14 May 2018 12:13:30 EST ID:NSyoVkIK No.64546 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I know this is a Star Trek board. But I see this series brought up often here and I did myself try to watch it. I'm not one of those "durr only Star Trek" people- I like a good *story.* Wherever is comes from.

More to the point- did anyone actually watch Babylon 5? I seriously tried to but the acting is so bad. And the production value and CGI so terrible that it was at times for me unwatchable. The story that I've read in the past on the various Wiki entries and what not make the Shadow Conflict thing seem interesting! But watching it appears to be such a god dam slog that I cannot bring myself to watch all of it...
Spock - Mon, 14 May 2018 13:50:47 EST ID:pekGfeeU No.64547 Ignore Report Quick Reply
you are me
i tried it multiple times and dropped it multiple times for the same reasons
Lt. Cmdr. Dexter Remmick - Mon, 14 May 2018 17:03:32 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64555 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Completely skip season 1, come back to it afterward.
For that matter, skip the last season too.

Otherwise, a show equal to DS9 with some of the best Sci-Fi acting until BSG reboot (and then Fringe).
Jaro Essa - Mon, 14 May 2018 18:19:10 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64556 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Early on, the production values and acting (??) may bother but before long the excellent writing and dialogue totally make you look past the flaws and they even become endearing. It obviously hasn't aged well in terms of production value but besides that it's timeless. It's a perfectly written show. No other show, let alone a sci fi show, has had that depth on so many levels and been so perfectly executed story wise.
Deanna Troi - Mon, 14 May 2018 18:41:58 EST ID:+gPRLRG+ No.64557 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It was on par with Trek with me when I was a kid, but kid's are stupid. Haven't really watched it since.
Leonard McCoy - Mon, 14 May 2018 19:25:43 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.64559 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I've seen it at least a dozen times. Make sure you watch the JMS viewing order. The first film and season are slow but important and it really build from there. Every season gets better and better until the end of S4 but there is still some good stuff in S5. The other films and spin-offs are decent, nothing great but they are good world building and often continue the story.
Broik - Mon, 14 May 2018 19:58:26 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64560 Ignore Report Quick Reply
season 2 starts with them bringing Captain Tron up to speed
Guinan - Mon, 14 May 2018 20:13:30 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I can't find the watch list I had.. but basically there's a really streamlined way to watch it and cut out the filler episodes. My pic is semirelated but don't ever watch crusade or call to arms, ever. So bad.
Tiron - Tue, 15 May 2018 01:33:55 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64562 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I couldn't watch crusade it was bad
Hoshi Sato - Tue, 15 May 2018 13:10:34 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64571 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Yes man everyone has a hard time getting started with it but you just need to nut up and do it. You will never be a true fan of TV sci-fi unless you can speak authoritatively about how you feel about B5. Just get over yourself and watch it, start with S2 and stop at S4, that's only 3 seasons. If you can watch 3 seasons of a Trek before it gets good, you can watch this. You'll wonder why you waited so long.
Jaresh-Inyo - Tue, 15 May 2018 22:25:28 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64576 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Honestly, this is a perfect binge show. It gets all GoT-in-space and it is nice to sort of follow it in one long binge where you don't forget who is doing what to whom behind whosits back....
Corporal Chang - Wed, 16 May 2018 00:05:55 EST ID:ZR416Pa+ No.64577 Ignore Report Quick Reply
so op here-

you're the second person to say that in this thread can I ask why? The first season is what I couldn't get past in seriousness. And why the last season as well? I know about the different viewing order. is it that or something else?
Admiral Owen Paris - Wed, 16 May 2018 01:08:33 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64578 Ignore Report Quick Reply
how could I ever speak authoritatively on B5 when my opinion is just "ehhhh, it was aight"?
General Martok - Wed, 16 May 2018 16:48:45 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64583 Ignore Report Quick Reply
First season is almost completely out of continuity with the rest of the show.

Just like S1 of DS9 didn't establish the main story of Sisko and Dukat being an allegory of a predestined battle between Good vs Evil. This setup is presented in S2.

Also main protagonist shifts to Sheridan.

Last season is an epilogue to the series, as they expected to get cancelled in S4... so lots of side quests, another shift of the main protagonist, and dealing with life after your destiny is fulfilled.

Would of got to see that in DS9, but they decided to let viewers wonder instead of answering our fears.
Leskit - Wed, 16 May 2018 19:02:25 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.64585 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The first season is in no way out of continuity with the rest of the show. S1 is actually very important to the overall story and sets up a lot.
Seska - Wed, 16 May 2018 21:31:19 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64589 Ignore Report Quick Reply
S1 doesn't hurt, but if you want to get grabbed by the balls and go "oh shit Babylon 5 is cool" I think S2 does a sharper job of it.
Third of Five - Wed, 16 May 2018 23:43:23 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64593 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It's like everyone is saying, S1 is ok but it has more filler episodes than any other season. Yes, there is stuff there that is picked up later but you don't absolutely NEED anything in the whole season so if it's putting you off just skip it. Once you're hooked you can come back later if you want.
5 is more useless though. Explaining why it is so irrelevant is kind of spoilers but suffice it to say everything you really care about is over by the end of season 4 and you only stick around for 5 if you are really interested in the characters and setting.
Gul Evek - Thu, 17 May 2018 16:29:30 EST ID:38Rd3CpY No.64598 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I liked it. Didn't finish it though. The jokes and the nonessential conversations are poorly acted throughout, but you can kind of learn to ignore it. Acting gets better on the part of the main characters as the show progresses, though, especially with all of the ambassadors and their assistant dudes.

Like everyone else said it really picks up during season 2 but a lot of season 1 has to be watched for exposition and some stuff from season 1 ends up resurfacing later on. The plot gets pretty deep on a lot of different fronts. The whole shadow thing is a little formulaic but there's a cool tweest at the end that makes it worth it.

Also human Delenn is best waifu
Badar N'D'D - Thu, 17 May 2018 21:27:52 EST ID:pekGfeeU No.64601 Ignore Report Quick Reply
i'm trying to watch the gathering for the 4th time now and god how its awful
i'm not gonna bother listing everything i find shit about it but damn

189IQ writing they said
Guinan - Thu, 17 May 2018 21:31:52 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64602 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You can totally skip that one.. it only introduces characters and the setting, really

It was also where Paramount got the idea for Odo
T'Pau - Thu, 17 May 2018 23:16:20 EST ID:FgLloLjB No.64603 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The movies, in general are horrible TV movie trash. In the Beginning bookends the series whether you've seen all of it or none of it.
Thirdspace is a long episode. River of Souls: lol Martin Sheen is an alien. Rangers is Starship troopers without the satire, or the troopers. And A Call to Arms while I know I've seen it. I couldn't tell you a single thing about it. And that's a bad review in my book.

>Babylon 5: The Lost Tales was intended to be an anthology show set in the Babylon 5 universe.
lol like those Discovery rumors.
>The project consists of one direct-to-DVD production containing two stories.
Protip: Don't make an anthology movie with two stories. You need three. Then on the DVD you can release extended cuts of each of them as not-quite-feature-length movies in their own right like Sin City.

I didn't know this existed. I'll probably watch it later.
Guinan - Fri, 18 May 2018 01:48:00 EST ID:r99xqWCw No.64605 Ignore Report Quick Reply
One is good.. or at least okay.. one is trash, just fyi
EMH MARK 2 - Fri, 18 May 2018 10:52:02 EST ID:VYIAkxPv No.64608 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Is this shit seriously about exorcising a goddamn demon with magic powers in space
Katogh - Fri, 18 May 2018 12:13:48 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64611 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>> The whole shadow thing is a little formulaic
B5 is literally Lord of the Rings in space. JMS has said as much. It's why he was able to come up with the whole arc of the show in one flash of shower inspiration, his brain just copied over the narrative of LOTR to a knock-off Trek universe (he originally pitched the show as a Trek show to Paramount, btw, they rejected him and used his idea a year later to make DS9, he retooled and made his show after spending a lot more time begging for funding.)
Guinan - Sat, 19 May 2018 01:58:37 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64617 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I told you one was trash
Geordi La Forge - Sat, 19 May 2018 10:40:16 EST ID:VYIAkxPv No.64624 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Yeah but I was seriously concerned that it was the good one.
Robin Lefler - Sat, 19 May 2018 14:12:20 EST ID:Y11CrKsu No.64629 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I grew up on B5. I love it and it has a lot of nostalgia for me. Rewatching it though, it's deeply flawed, even if I love it.

It's good for its time. At the time there wasn't tons of long arc storytelling on tv, so that was pretty groundbreaking. Also, the shadow war holds up as a story and the internal politics are interesting. The Londo/G'Kar relationship is one of the best crafted in TV scifi.

But... it never stops being awkward. As soon as they start getting their feet on the ground they lose some actors. They continue to diverge off into stupid filler side-episodes. They introduce Marcus who is one of the most cringey/skeevy characters ever conceived.

I probably wouldn't recommend it to someone who isn't really into scifi. I would recommend it to trekfans though, just with a lot of caveats.
Captain Goroth - Sat, 19 May 2018 14:29:29 EST ID:S8+DbfAH No.64630 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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i'm struggling on episode 3 right now

wont there be any happenings on the show? nothing never happens and its really boring tbh
i read the synopsis for the next few episodes and they sound like trash too
Sarah Sisko - Sat, 19 May 2018 14:57:11 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64631 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Maybe Star Wars is more your speed.
Robin Lefler - Sat, 19 May 2018 16:21:17 EST ID:Y11CrKsu No.64632 Ignore Report Quick Reply

You should probably look for an "essential episodes" list and just watch those at first, tbh. I've done it with other shows until i got hooked, and just dropped the list once i was interested.
Odo - Sat, 19 May 2018 19:18:48 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.64633 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You're only 3 episodes in. If you can sit through a full season of STD and most of the other shit that passes for sci-fi these days then surely you can get through the first season of B5. Though if you find that stuff great you likely will not like B5.

Its not like the first season is even that terrible. I watch B5 at least once a year and have never had a problem getting through it. Its a great show with lots of arcs and nuance wrapped in another big arc.

>wont there be any happenings on the show?
It builds slowly with lots of development especially early on. If you want action, action, action, its not the show for you.
Kai Winn - Sat, 19 May 2018 19:57:29 EST ID:7FETLPOS No.64635 Ignore Report Quick Reply
the thing is i cant sit through STD either and i hate modern sci-fi with the exception of the orville

i'm not even talking about war and action and that stuff, i'm just talking about anything

like i said, these first few episodes (and the ones i havent watched yet) all smell like filler
Guinan - Sat, 19 May 2018 20:57:02 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64637 Ignore Report Quick Reply
TBQHFAM I used a watch list the first time. I've been trying to find it but I can't seem to locate the exact one I used.. but I am going to try looking again right now.
Guinan - Sat, 19 May 2018 21:31:27 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64638 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Here is a watch list with both essential and recommended episodes.. I cannot find the one I used last time I watched B5 but this one looks sorta similar
Data - Sun, 20 May 2018 05:52:12 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64642 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The end of the Shadow War should have been the whole thing. They could have even done some post war episodes after it about reconstruction and shit but holy hot damn all of the main arcs after the Shadow War are either boring, annoying, or they just don't have the impact the war did. The whole psi refugees thing was fucking awful too. But not as awful as the entirety of Crusade, that was hot fucking garbage.

Overall the show has some cool concepts and writing though so I would still recommend a watch to any sci fi fan.
Guinan - Mon, 21 May 2018 01:28:05 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64649 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It is for me.. last rewatch I just stopped after the conclusion of the Shadow War and watched only the s4 finale and the last 2 episodes of s5 after that

I think that's how it goes
Ba'el - Mon, 21 May 2018 22:10:49 EST ID:Fo9di48k No.64663 Ignore Report Quick Reply
i take back what i said about the cgi
i can see now how it was meant to be, it would have been WAY beyond its time if it had been rendered properly
Jaro Essa - Tue, 22 May 2018 09:00:25 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64665 Ignore Report Quick Reply
everybody literally told you to skip season 5, not our problem
DaiMon Torrot - Tue, 22 May 2018 20:53:29 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
At the time, that CGI was ground-breaking for a TV series. The Video Toaster used to be the shit back in the day.
William T Riker - Tue, 22 May 2018 21:58:45 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64673 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Video Toaster was the workhorse of 90s low budget TV..
Legate Hovat - Wed, 23 May 2018 02:11:12 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64674 Ignore Report Quick Reply
nobody told me shit I watched this show a long time ago before ever coming to this board I was just stating my opinion
Hoshi Sato - Wed, 23 May 2018 02:29:51 EST ID:yU9mPOdm No.64676 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>that CGI was ground-breaking for a TV series.

But not properly used, terribly animated, over-ambitious for pure computer animation.
If I could go back and make one contribution to that show I'd puppeteer the spaceships and turrets on a side and overhead camera and motion tracked it by eye.

The biggest problem isn't how shitty the lighting and surfaces are. That actually works okay on CRT televisions. But they tried to do pure computer animation in a computer that couldn't render out a wireframe in real-time.
Otherwise they would have noticed how often they turn a starfury about its frigging Z axis pivot, centered in the middle of the mesh.
A: A pilot wouldn't fly that way.
B: the pivot for the starfuries should be between the engines and behind them, adjusting to the right or left and up or down based on the ratio of thrust between the engines
This shit is floating, once it starts rotating something has to stop it. This is why you model and animate stabilizing thrusters.
All of that shit is too complicated, so just go play with toys like an 8 year old for 10 minutes and make yourself a visual reference.

Pure computer animation is so difficult and painstaking to do well that most video games switched to mo-cap ages ago and the ones that didn't mostly had terrible animation. And it's difficult with real-time playback. Impossible on an Amiga.
Brok'tan - Wed, 23 May 2018 09:56:28 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64677 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>This shit is floating, once it starts rotating something has to stop it. This is why you model and animate stabilizing thrusters.

High School Physics says NOTHING HAS TO STOP IT (Newton's First Law).

A title of one of the damn episodes references this "Objects in Motion".

Pretty fucking sure they knew what they were doing internet wise-guy.
EMH MARK 2 - Wed, 23 May 2018 10:40:24 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64678 Ignore Report Quick Reply
the nitpicking is real
Sarpek the Fearless - Wed, 23 May 2018 12:43:19 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64679 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Using pure CGI was not a creative decision. They simply could not afford to go the traditional model route. Using nothing but CGI was the only way they had enough money to make the show.

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