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The Hate List by Larry Laffer - Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:38:50 EST ID:QqHkgYbz No.4827604 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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http://memewar.io guy here. I made another, simpler site. It's def less polished but I think it has the potential to be pretty fun.

It's just a list of who is hated in America. Users contribute "hatees" and you can vote that you hate them as many times as you feel like. You can also discuss why or why not someone should be hated. I stole it from an idea in the new Chuck Palahiuk book. lol I started a fight club when I was a teenager and 13 years later I'm still spending my time trying to make fiction into reality

http://159.203.169.144:4000
>>
William Hartmann - Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:46:57 EST ID:Z/1J/U54 No.4827607 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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No
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Larry Laffer - Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:49:23 EST ID:QqHkgYbz No.4827608 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827607
Welp, William Hartmann, you're going on the list.
>>
Jose Garces - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:46:20 EST ID:krVw7lhL No.4827634 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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why you gotta make it about hate, though? isn't there enough of that already in this fucked up world? why not make it about people ya love? put some good out there instead of more bad
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John Bahcall - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 02:06:01 EST ID:2JC6oSt8 No.4827645 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827634
This.
>>
Shit Seckleham - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:20:11 EST ID:bPLMuuTz No.4827741 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827634
Ever seen the bee episode of Black Mirror? It's basically intended to be used like that.
>>
Augustus Bubblelidge - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:26:06 EST ID:nJkrco7e No.4827742 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827741
>philosoraptor macro
It's not, that's a confusion between "lower class" meaning "working class" in the British class system and "low class" as in lacking class, the personality trait. There's some overlap but they're not synonymous.
>>
Augustus Bubblelidge - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:28:12 EST ID:nJkrco7e No.4827743 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Good page though, it's nice to see people doing little projects like that for the hell of it.
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Bart Palazewski - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:49:40 EST ID:OThmP++H No.4827767 Ignore Report Quick Reply
buy an ad dingus
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Mark Munoz - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:12:06 EST ID:olHduLCH No.4827775 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP I support your dumb websites, at least you've been working on them consistently
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Lt. Daniels - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:34:32 EST ID:6Gd/VMVb No.4827782 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Buy a banner FAG!
>>
Lauren Faust - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:52:47 EST ID:8eiVdslO No.4827786 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827604
this is sick dude, do this >>4827782
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Andrew Zimmern - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:29:27 EST ID:dX30q7H1 No.4827799 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827743
>>4827775
Thanks bros.

And these are pet projects, so it's more appropriate to make a thread than to buy an ad in the first place. I'm not trying to make money off them. Imagine if I made a cool bong by hand and I wanted to show off my work to people by making a thread. Would you still be telling me to buy an ad? The only difference with these websites is that you can actually use the cool things I made via the net.
>>
Mark Munoz - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:04:32 EST ID:olHduLCH No.4827808 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827799
I have a website too, but I'm not gunna post it because you can find my personal information when you look it up.

I tried looking your's up... it didn't show me your personal information, just that it was registered. What sorcery is this?
>>
Aida Mollenkamp - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:18:54 EST ID:tzXAxGfW No.4827814 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I've been having some fun messing around with this. Good job, OP.
>>
Aubrey Cottle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:51:02 EST ID:9hybkfcO No.4827822 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827604
Op thanks for reminding me of th best person ever
>>
Aubrey Cottle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:57:43 EST ID:9hybkfcO No.4827825 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827822
>>
Jebediah Cuntpickle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:01:09 EST ID:53VWnHxW No.4827826 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827822
That’s not a person. She’s a fictional character, a fictional idol fake meet character meant to appeal to losers who refuse to work for the food they eat. All her albums suck and her sidekick is annoying as shit. Kaede is best girl you stupid bitch
>>
Aubrey Cottle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:04:29 EST ID:9hybkfcO No.4827827 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827826
I can't believe you actually watch that show. I just like the Loki factor
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Aubrey Cottle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:06:34 EST ID:9hybkfcO No.4827828 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827827
Loli factor
>>
Jebediah Cuntpickle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:07:17 EST ID:53VWnHxW No.4827829 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827827
>show
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Aubrey Cottle - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:28:26 EST ID:9hybkfcO No.4827836 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827829
Better than that faggot jojo
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Georges-Henri Lemaitre - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 14:45:01 EST ID:w3/BkVun No.4827841 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827836
Now you've done it.
You've revealed your troll level.
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Mark Munoz - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 15:45:18 EST ID:olHduLCH No.4827854 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Hey, OP. Tell me more about yourself. Why are you making these websites? What do you do for a living? What's your end goal?
>>
Kamal Shalorus - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 16:40:35 EST ID:P+4CCsNz No.4827862 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827604
I voted twice on OP just to see if it would work and now I feel bad..
>>
Mark Munoz - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 16:46:04 EST ID:olHduLCH No.4827864 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827862
don't worry, i voted like 22 times on "The Guy Who Made memewar.io"

the website is ripe for abuse, lol
>>
Dark Queen - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 21:58:37 EST ID:knms3Rnf No.4827942 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827854
I'm a NEET and my parents are rich/cool/reasonable enough to not force me to get a job selling pot or be homeless. My parents pay my rent and I sell my plasma for my food/bills. I have some Bitcoin but it mostly just sits there. I don't want a job and I'm unemployable anyway unless I commit a felony in order to get into a job placement program. It'd be great if the discussion doesn't devolve into harping on "how I could get a job if I just buckled down and stopped being lazy." I'm clearly not lazy.

I'm making these websites because it feels good to be productive, self-actualize and have something to show for my time on this Earth. Ironically thr most successful thing I created last year was a fluke. I created the Hot Coil Challenge meme with my best friend and it was amazing. But I also wrote a book, I made Meme War, and I made another app called Personanexus (I'll get it back up soon). I ask my employed friends what they did last year and they never have anything to say except maybe they went on vacation, but then I ask what they did there and it's either sleeping or drinking. I get it. They don't have a choice. I'm lucky my parents are rich enough to enable me following my dreams. I'm sure they'd be doing the same stuff if they were in my shoes albeit with music and movies instead of apps.

My ultimate goal is that my work gets popular enough that I can finally become a UBI advocate. I'll be like "See? When people aren't forced to work to exist, they end up doing things that benefit others. And if there's some work that really needs to be done, it will start paying a wage commensurate with it's true value." Hopefully this happens before the Grand Depression in 2029. I also would try to spread other memes I have because when it comes down to it, I think the ultimate purpose of life for everyone is to spread your memes. All the money in the world is worthless if someone successfully spreads the meme that money is worthless.
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Melissa d'Arabian - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:15:27 EST ID:1PXo1e69 No.4827946 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827942
Color me jelly you rich parents having ass mothafuckin jiiiive ass turkey
>>
Dark Queen - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:20:58 EST ID:knms3Rnf No.4827949 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827946
I want everyone to live like this. That's why I want UBI to be a thing. I hope Andrew Yang 2020 doesn't fuck up his Joe Rogan podcast. I think he fucked up his Freakonomics podcast. His reasonableness by saying he'd be happy as Biden's VP appeals to me but I know that him saying that probably killed any chance he had...
>>
Melissa d'Arabian - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:49:53 EST ID:1PXo1e69 No.4827959 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827949
Society would collapse if we took away the need for a job. Everybody would just smoke weed and watch netflix all day living like gopniks.
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Mike Brown - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 23:13:43 EST ID:Odh4Xtei No.4827964 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827959
A huge portion of the workforce are locked into less productive jobs or abusive situations because they can't risk losing healthcare, income, etc long enough to move, retrain, or find a new job.

Productivity still increases if 100 cashiers literally never work another day in their lives, but one former cashier gets a job building/maintaining automated checkouts.
>>
Diego Armando - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 23:31:14 EST ID:/scf49jQ No.4827967 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827964
Well, that’s the thing, you know, there are a lot of jobs that seriously fucking suck, that still need to get done, that don’t necessarily add that much value but are essential, everything from working on an oil field to being a garbage man to cleaning septic tanks. And you can’t pay them double or triple the minimum wage because it’s way too expensive, but you need to pay them something more than the basic income because their job seriously sucks. That also includes all factory workers.

But the thing is, there’s a whole lot less of those jobs, than there are of people, and you can’t just let all the people who don’t have some essential job role to do just smoke weed and watch Netflix all day or no one in their right mind would ever sign up for the shitty jobs. So we make up countless waste of time service industry jobs that add no value to anyone’s life and could be automated if the machine cost less than $7.25 an hour to set up.

Then there are all the people who can actually find something to do with their time that doesn’t suck, and actually contributes to the world, and isn’t a complete waste of time, and the more restrictions you place on working, like charging ridiculous taxes to pay for a basic income, the more you make it impossible for people to live their actual calling.

Now most people will never find anything useful to do with themselves in their lives and will just be forced into some shitty essential job or pointless wage slavery, and even between the people who find something useful to do and the ones stuck doing shitty important jobs there are still many, perhaps the majority of people with nothing useful to do, and while wasting their time at some wage slave bullshit serving consumerism isn’t gonna lead to them figuring out something useful, neither is letting them sit on the couch and watch Netflix for free. Instead making them go do some stupid bullshit all day is motivation to find something useful to do or to put up with the shittiness of an actual important job.
>>
Alundra Blayze - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 00:33:38 EST ID:P8H+4nvP No.4827980 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827959
I just want a job with some dignity where I'm not doing something I consider outright inmoral
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Idrin - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 00:58:22 EST ID:CSooStLZ No.4827985 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I don’t want to hate anymore I’m tired of it. I just want to be left alone to my tv and video games and other distractions. It might not be much but it’s a better deal than what a lot of men got in the past. Wifes and kids and jobs and cars and travels they’re all a distraction. Why can’t I find a friend who tries to understand me without judging me with what I “own”?
>>
Claude Offenbauker - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 04:03:12 EST ID:bTCG/x4x No.4828007 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4827967
>Instead of making them go do some stupid bullshit all day is motivation to find something useful to do or to put up with the shittiness of an actual important job. That is certainly the lie you were told but in real life it obviously doesn't work like that because most people with shitty jobs have them forever. On the other hand, the people with good jobs either are so self-motivated it wouldn't matter or they just get them through nepotism. Negative reinforcement is proven to be the least effective way to motivate people. Once you hit 25 you'll probably have an internal urge to contribute to the world. If not, forcing you to do something unnecessary wouldn't benefit anyone.

Consumption drives growth, not labor. If we all received a freedom dividend we'd be able to consume without working.
>>
EugenePockson.vxd - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 05:29:48 EST ID:JUc+6xnp No.4828021 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827967
As automation advances the only solution is going to be to make people work less hours so more people do the same jobs but pay them the same. This would cancel out the profits from automation/technology but it would drive a huge boost in standard of living for everyone.

There are certain essentially jobs where they never pay enough and can never get enough staff and the ones they have end up getting ill long term as a result because they work double their basic hours every week. These are also often sucky jobs. We're going to have to bite the bullet and pay them more too.

Of course the most overpaid pieces of shit are the ones who set the wages so you can see why people agitate for communism. Because a reasonable free market solution involves a much lower gini coefficient and the people who have "votes" in that situation are the 0.1%.
>>
Penny Cancer - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 06:14:34 EST ID:ZcsRh+L8 No.4828024 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4828021
If everything is automated we should just abandon capitalism entirely and, nationalize is the wrong word, but turn the means of production into a community thing with people basically just chipping in to help maintain the machines. Empire itself is predicated on an exploited slave class, followed often by normalizing this and giving some benefits to the slaves as a feudal peasant type of class. If we have already replaced the peasant class with unthinking machines, then why the fuck should we still be treating people as peasants?

Again, I will say to you that you should read the theory of Political Ponerology and the pathocracy of psychopaths embedded themselves in powerful places in society. Those deviant elements should be scourges from all places of power the same way all pedophiles ought to be scourges from places of trust among children. They are pathological people whose behavior has wide ranging effects in society and in the case of narcissists and psychopaths will never be content without having people to abuse on a wide scale. Only then can we abolish Capitalism and Communism entirely and live in a sort of advanced luxury homosexual space democratic communalism.
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EugenePockson.vxd - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 06:35:23 EST ID:JUc+6xnp No.4828025 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828024
Yeah, I would keep some elements of capitalism but the most effective economies right now are mixed economies. The system needs to resist consolidation of power and ensure it can be broken up or reset when it happens. People with power can't use it to get more power. I agree that if we have robots doing slave work we should all be elevated. Most people who own the robots own the robots because they were already rich. While some people are self made, there is a huge correlation between being rich and your parents being rich and everyone depends on others when they are young, as an incontinent blind blob of flesh you have yet to earn anything yet you get help. Maybe your parents worked hard for that help but that wasn't you. Maybe they took great value in knowing you were going to do well but if we had a better functioning society they'd know it anyway.

The minimum wage here is almost acceptable. If people worked 20 hours a week and had that they could grow food in their garden, do more DIY and home maintenance or practice art and exercise, they could look after their children better. We also have overworked teachers with little enough support so that's a shortage job here. We wouldn't be making the poorest much richer financially but quality of life is much more than that. What I'm talking about is a less long term permanent solution and an intermediate stopgap instead of breakdown of society or increasingly more useless jobs that actually lower the value society produces for people so the total money can be increased/maintained.

>>4828021
>raising the gini coefficient
One small error. Had to correct but the site went down or something just as I realised my mistake. A high coefficient means even distribution of wealth, that's what we want.
>>
Derek Dickington - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 08:56:49 EST ID:9vkhWhOP No.4828030 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828024
I think we should just privatize socialism. An entire town could just become one company that is dedicated to making the lives of all the company workers happy rather than making maximum money for the owner. The problem with socialism is that the government controls everything and fucks shit up pretty bad. You need to break up that power into a bunch of competing elements. The CEO of the company would be like the leader of the town and could allocate resources and labor and make sure that everyone in the community has a satisfying life with enough money to live.
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Thomas Turveyford - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 09:22:40 EST ID:8lzHQwNF No.4828032 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4828024
I know you mean well, but you have to understand that anti-capitalism/pro-communism rhetoric in discussions about UBI only makes UBI less likely. Andrew Yang, the UBI presidential candidate for 2020, is putting a firm pro-capitalism spin on everything because he knows that communism is a dirty word in America. The people who need to be convinced fear communism and they think UBI is just a rebranding. Incremental, less scary change is more pragmatic. At some point you have to ask yourself what's more important to you: ideological tribalism or actually having a real world with UBI?

Also to that guy who thinks the world is going to end if we get UBI, here's the thing: we truly don't know what will happen when UBI legislation is enacted. We can't know and anybody who tells you otherwise is full of shit. Sure, 99% of the pilot programs and studies have show positive or neutral effects but those are qualitatively different from an actual entire nation receiving UBI. There is no way to know what will happen until we try it because it's never been done before. On the other hand, we have many examples from history demonstrating what happens when the an entire species becomes obsolete in the economy. Horses used to do nearly all of the transportation work in the world. Then someone invented cars. The horse maintaining humans just changed jobs, sure, but they're not the thing that became obsolete. Horses were. Now there are very few horses. Machine learning algorithms will make many humans with white collar jobs obsolete because their brains cannot compete with machines. Everyone already expects blue collar jobs to be automated away quickly and many already are leading to the current underemployment crisis. Furthermore, if people can't get enough to eat and society decides to go complete social Darwinist we know what will happen then too. They won't just roll over and die. They will start committing more crimes and inevitably start a violent revolution. If you're over 25 I'm sure you don't want to have to live through that either. UBI is the best solution we have for a peaceful transition from the current state of affairs to complete automation.
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EugenePockson.vxd - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 09:28:36 EST ID:JUc+6xnp No.4828033 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828030
Not a bad idea. As I said clumps of power is bad. Socialism is a broad net and doesn't necessarily mean centrally planned economies. A lot of government agencies run locally and have goals and results to make. I really dislike austerity and even the most well off organisation around here is at the "we're just cutting back vital services" level but there was definitely some bloat lost at first.

I think the idea of competition isn't always good, some stuff is naturally a monopoly but certain capitalist elements work. The key is to make sure the people making decisions have an incentive to aid those they're making decisions for, to allocate the resources to best meet needs and then fairly meet wants when they are met. Current central and local government often allocates resources so their mate's firm gets the tender or the person they went to Eton with gets money for a bridge no one wants and they don't have to build ever or whatever.

What you describe almost happens in a lot of government bodies with funding being allocated based on the case made. Sometimes it feels to me like the amount of other things you could do with it aren't included though.

Also CEO means "Chief Executive Officer" they exist in the public sector, they just tend to earn a 0 less and only 5 -6 times the average worker, maybe 10 times the poorest full time at most.

You want to hear something more contraversial? I'd nix the third sector. That's one with overpaid CEOs, poor value for money and corruption. More money is spent on getting money than delivering services. Why not just deduct a small (progressive) tax and give everyone votes on where to allocate the funds? Use a formula that limits growth/shrinkage so charity endeavors tend to their equilibrium over time but don't get fucked up by sudden drops in funding. It's something I've seen used successfully.

A lot of the basic structure you describe exists in the public sector of most of the west. Most of the people are genuinely trying to do what's best with the public's money. There isn't quite enough incentive to do it right and control to stop them being shits especially at the higher level. It usually completely breaks down at the point elected officials intervene. So to change the economy we first need to overhaul democracy.
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Ensign Herbert - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 09:41:15 EST ID:nJkrco7e No.4828035 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828030
An entire town, a community working communally for the communal good? That sounds familiar. What is it? It's on the tip of my tongue.
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Derek Dickington - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 11:32:06 EST ID:9vkhWhOP No.4828053 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828033
> So to change the economy we first need to overhaul democracy.
Agreed. The system is broken and has been for literally 100 years now. It's fucking time we reformed it already. These are quotes from a speech that Theodore Roosevelt gave in Kansas in 1910 (this isn't one big selection but rather several smaller ones fyi)

>“In every wise struggle for human betterment one of the main objects, and often the only object, has been to achieve in large measure equality of opportunity. In the struggle for this great end, nations rise from barbarism to civilization, and through it people press forward from one stage of enlightenment to the next. One of the chief factors in progress is the destruction of special privilege. The essence of any struggle for healthy liberty has always been, and must always be, to take from some one man or class of men the right to enjoy power, or wealth, or position, or immunity, which has not been earned by service to his or their fellows.”


>“At many stages in the advance of humanity, this conflict between the men who possess more than they have earned and the men who have earned more than they possess is the central condition of progress. In our day it appears as the struggle of freemen to gain and hold the right of self-government as against the special interests, who twist the methods of free government into machinery for defeating the popular will. At every stage, and under all circumstances, the essence of the struggle is to equalize opportunity, destroy privilege, and give to the life and citizenship of every individual the highest possible value both to himself and to the commonwealth. That is nothing new.”

>“The Constitution guarantees protection to property, and we must make that promise good. But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation…. There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will be neither a short nor an easy task, but it can be done…Corporate expenditures for political purposes, and especially such expenditures by public-service corporations, have supplied one of the principal sources of corruption in our political affairs.”

>“The effort at prohibiting all combination has substantially failed. [This is a reference to the effort at ‘trust-busting’ that he inaugurated as president, but which he felt had not been pursued vigorously by his successor, William Howard Taft.] The way out lies, not in attempting to prevent such combinations, but in completely controlling them in the interest of the public welfare.

>“The absence of effective State, and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power. The prime need to is to change the conditions which enable these men to accumulate power which it is not for the general welfare that they should hold or exercise. We grudge no man a fortune which represents his own power and sagacity, when exercised with entire regard to the welfare of his fellows…

>“We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary.

>“No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar’s worth of service rendered — not gambling in stocks, but service rendered.”

>“The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective-a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.”

>“I recognize the right and duty of this generation to develop and use the natural resources of our land; but I do not recognize the right to waste them, or to rob, by wasteful use, the generations that come after us.”

>“The right to regulate the use of wealth in the public interest is universally admitted. Let us admit also the right to regulate the terms and conditions of labor, which is the chief element of wealth, directly in the interest of the common good. The fundamental thing to do for every man is to give him a chance to reach a place in which he will make the greatest possible contribution to the public welfare. Understand what I say there. Give him a chance, not push him up if he will not be pushed. Help any man who stumbles; if he lies down, it is a poor job to try to carry him; but if he is a worthy man, try your best to see that he gets a chance to show the worth that is in him. No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so after his day’s work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load. We keep countless men from being good citizens by the conditions of life by which we surround them. We need comprehensive workman’s compensation acts, both State and national laws to regulate child labor and work for women, and, especially, we need in our common schools not merely education in book-learning, but also practical training for daily life and work.”

>“Those who oppose reform will do well to remember that ruin in its worst form is inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few and the triumph in both politics and business of a sordid and selfish materialism.”

It's amazing how much of that is still perfectly applicable to the current political system. Sure, we've got workers comp, child labor laws, and women are allowed to work, but basically nothing else has changed because the same corrupt political system remains. We needed these reforms 100 years ago and we still need them today.
>>
Diego Armando - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 11:41:41 EST ID:/scf49jQ No.4828057 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828032
There is no such thing as complete automation.

It would necessarily involve eliminating a majority of the human population.

Your horse analogy makes a lot more sense when you think of society as it’s own system, rather than just a part of humans. Humans and horses both served the society, now horses have only marginal use for the society and so 90% of them have been killed and ground up into dog food, aside from the few wealthy humans interested in keeping a pet horse and the very rare application where horses can get places that automobiles cannot, they serve no use and society isn’t going to consume limited resources feeding and providing healthcare and land for them when they will never provide anything of value.

When you view humans not as being the bosses of society, but rather serving it, the parallel is obvious. There are billions of humans, who will never have a useful job or contribute anything of value to the society. Why would the society use its limited resources of living space, food, medical care and even education and entertainment keeping billions of humans alive that will never contribute anything of value to anyone besides their own self indulgence?

It simply makes no sense. We do not live in some autistic nerd futurist fantasy where scarcity could be eliminated by magic robots who give us free money; energy, water, land, chemicals, metals, medical technology, all of these are in limited supply and when we adjust to a long term perspective on the survival of our species, giving them out for free to everyone now means all of the humans will die a lot sooner.

What’s the alternative...that people riot in the streets and demand to be hooked up to the system that provides all of their needs for free? We are maybe 10-20 years away from true terminator drone technology, it’s not gonna look like Arnold Schwarzenegger and you’re not gonna be able to stop it from killing you by running away in an industrial plant, riots aren’t gonna accomplish anything when the people you’re demanding provide you a life of free stuff also have unstoppable killing machines and as consuming centuries worth of resources in decades to keep alive billions of humans who will never contribute anything represents a very real existential threat to the long term future of the society it’s not even immoral to flip the kill switch.

UBI is utterly incompatible with the capitalist system that places a positive value on consumption, it is impossible to implement in such a system unless we can completely change, not just the structure of society, but the mindset of all the billions of humans who consider capitalism and consumerism as the only possible way of life and if you believe this could be accomplished without mass killings, destruction and the breakdown of the social order, you’re a fool.
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Diego Armando - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 11:57:24 EST ID:/scf49jQ No.4828062 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828032
There is no such thing as complete automation.

It would necessarily involve eliminating a majority of the human population.

Your horse analogy makes a lot more sense when you think of society as it’s own system, rather than just a part of humans. Humans and horses both served the society, now horses have only marginal use for the society and so 90% of them have been killed and ground up into dog food, aside from the few wealthy humans interested in keeping a pet horse and the very rare application where horses can get places that automobiles cannot, they serve no use and society isn’t going to consume limited resources feeding and providing healthcare and land for them when they will never provide anything of value.

When you view humans not as being the bosses of society, but rather serving it, the parallel is obvious. There are billions of humans, who will never have a useful job or contribute anything of value to the society. Why would the society use its limited resources of living space, food, medical care and even education and entertainment keeping billions of humans alive that will never contribute anything of value to anyone besides their own self indulgence?

It simply makes no sense. We do not live in some autistic nerd futurist fantasy where scarcity could be eliminated by magic robots who give us free money; energy, water, land, chemicals, metals, medical technology, all of these are in limited supply and when we adjust to a long term perspective on the survival of our species, giving them out for free to everyone now means all of the humans will die a lot sooner.

What’s the alternative...that people riot in the streets and demand to be hooked up to the system that provides all of their needs for free? We are maybe 10-20 years away from true terminator drone technology, it’s not gonna look like Arnold Schwarzenegger and you’re not gonna be able to stop it from killing you by running away in an industrial plant, riots aren’t gonna accomplish anything when the people you’re demanding provide you a life of free stuff also have unstoppable killing machines and as consuming centuries worth of resources in decades to keep alive billions of humans who will never contribute anything represents a very real existential threat to the long term future of the society it’s not even immoral to flip the kill switch.

UBI is utterly incompatible with the capitalist system that places a positive value on consumption, it is impossible to implement in such a system unless we can completely change, not just the structure of society, but the mindset of all the billions of humans who consider capitalism and consumerism as the only possible way of life and if you believe this could be accomplished without mass killings, destruction and the breakdown of the social order, you’re a fool.
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Bonks - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:24:37 EST ID:V0HDfvXn No.4828092 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4828062
Complete automation is possible but I agree it will be decades before we're there. That's why we need an intermediary step between capitalism and communism in the interim. It's either try UBI and it works good enough, try UBI and it fails and 90% of the population dies, or don't try UBI and 90% of the population definitely dies.

You have to remember that we know for a fact that labor is not what keeps the economy functioning. The super-rich do help the economy as do lower taxes as do a high employment rate. It's the spending that actually keeps the economy going. That's why there have been no tangible repercussions from quantitative easing or banks magically creating money via the fractional reserve system. I know all this stuff is pretty complicated and you probably haven't heard of it so look it up. Really understand how the economy works. Cutting your grass with scissors doesn't benefit anyone until someone gives you $50 for doing it. Nothing has intrinsic value in the first place.
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Melissa d'Arabian - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:47:25 EST ID:1PXo1e69 No.4828097 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4828092
a UBI of $1000 a month sounds good to me. enough to eliminate stress and boost consumerism, not enough for neets and leeches to live comfortably without doing anything. this would replace all forms of government aid, welfare, disability checks, etc. any more or any less sounds more detrimental in it their own respective ways.
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Fanny Fupperhood - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:00:02 EST ID:J+MHDQDK No.4828099 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828092
your pic and your post are both totally beyond retardation
you have absolutely no concept of reality

>the rich rip me off
>therefore I should be guaranteed an existence, regardless of any of the factors that historically have made existence possible
>it's not my fault for letting them do this to me, i'm a victim, my programming tells me that's a powerful card
>all we have to do is beg the rich for more money and my problems are solved
>ill just beg them, let them keep their power, and be happy with a little bit more money, I bet my problems will just evaporate

>really understand the economy
>look it up
>fractional reserve banking and bailouts that are a significant proportion of the GDP don't actually do anything!
>they don't signal titanic redistribution of wealth from a central authority
>they aren't used for any socioeconomic engineering projects at all
>anything I'm too stupid and/or cowardly to understand is a conspiracy theory

>Nothing has intrinsic value in the first place.
nihilist retard, if nothing has intrinsic value then there is no such thing as value, then there is no good or evil, then pleasure is pain and pain is pleasure, then the only point to life is to DIE.

Which is YOUR purpose in life, not others, so stop trying to spread your ideas. Just stop living. Die.
shoot yourself in the heart, you are seriously not a human being, not even an animal, you are a demonic abomination put here to spew poisonous illogical nonsense.
your life is a liability to the survival of Earth itself.
DIE, and take as many people related to you as possible along with
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Fanny Fupperhood - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:00:48 EST ID:J+MHDQDK No.4828101 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828097
>give a bunch of aimless degenerates cash to buy weapons and drugs
what could go wrong
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Diego Armando - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:15:49 EST ID:/scf49jQ No.4828106 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828092
No, complete automation is not possible, the gap between fully automating repetitive manual labor like factory work, picking vegetables, and even retail and food service, and automating skilled labor like putting plumbing in peoples houses and repairing cars and designing computer systems that accomplish an actual specific goal in an efficient way, cannot be overcome by a few decades of advancing technology.

The idea of full automation is a sci-fi fantasy of capitalism. Yes, with better technology most people working in customer service, or sitting in offices, or working in factories, can be replaced by people writing code and maintenance technicians fixing machines. The people fixing the machines are not going to be easily replaced by automation, though, because making a robot that can take a broken machine, diagnose what’s wrong with it, figure out how to repair the problem, and resolve the issue without any human guidance is several orders of magnitude more of a challenge than building a kiosk that takes people’s orders and spits out a cheeseburger.

The flaw with such thinking is that humans, like any other animals, represent industrial units, and that it is far cheaper to produce a human with technical training than it is to produce an android-and nothing short of a fully functional android can replace the adaptability and flexible thinking of a human worker.

The unfixable flaw with providing a universal income in a capitalist society is that capitalism places value on consumption. We live in a world of finite resources, and economic value directly reflects the utility to humans of consuming those resources. The macroeconomic theory class I took in grad school spent the first unit examining different mathematical models for the relative valuation of different forms of consumption as the basis for all further supply and demand mechanisms and economic models. Increasing the nominal value of wealth - increasing the numbers of a computer screen for the bank account of the super-wealthy - is pretty much fictional and has little impact on the real world. Giving that wealth out to people in the form of a basic income would result in drastic increases in the amount of resources actually consumed.

Or to put it into the perspective of accounting...as things are, each human represents an asset to society, a minority with disabilities are a liability but the majority of fit humans represent an asset - they can either perform an essential value added job, or they can be used as cheap labor to delay automation. When you add in a UBI, you’re essentially flipping a switch that creates a fucking MASSIVE liability for each person to society, now instead of cheap labor each human needs to add enough value to support a quarter million dollars or more of industrial supply chain and medical care, and there simply is no way for the average person to add that much value.

There’s only one way a UBI is effective: that is, exclusively limited to rich countries, and fueled not through the automated labor of a magical army of robots but rather through the very real enslavement of billions of other humans in poor countries who are helplessly relegated by the military-industrial social order to a life of poverty with no hope of attaining any of the benefits promised as a natural right to citizens of the first world.

And if you think full automation providing free food, education, housing, and healthcare to 2.5 billion Africans is even a possibility, lol.
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Jimmy Hopkins - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:19:52 EST ID:QLTOtYac No.4828107 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4827604
Why are you spreading hate, OP?
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Melissa d'Arabian - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 17:27:02 EST ID:1PXo1e69 No.4828134 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4828101
they already have welfare, section 8 housing, food stamps, etc. lots of money is handed to them on a platter because they live in the ghetto. let's replace all of these with $1000 UBI for all citizens.

you see "a bunch of aimless degenerates cash to buy weapons and drugs". i see a bunch of aimless degenerates no longer needing to sell drugs to live, as well as aimless degenerates spending way more money on goods and services, putting money in the pockets of... the economy.

i'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.
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EugeneHoneyville.nlm - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 18:46:03 EST ID:BYWBo/z2 No.4828152 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828134
>i'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.
And that's the kind of disregard for reality that will be used against you by those that make promises in exchange for power
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Alberto Crackplough - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 19:14:54 EST ID:olHduLCH No.4828157 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828152
Yeah, I didn't want to discourage him, but that's a really bad philosophy to have.
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NigelSibblewill.pst - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 19:28:58 EST ID:RFxPQjQo No.4828162 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828152
>those that make promises in exchange for power

You mean literally everyone who has ever sought power? Unless you're a partisan for random selection to replace elections I don't know why conservatives (in particular, not that you necessarily are one) are always on this shit about "politicians buying votes with promises for social programs." That's politics, dude. That's how this shit works. You propose things people want, and then you use your power to implement them.
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Vagina McPenison - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 20:30:32 EST ID:mh2TjS2D No.4828176 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>4828107
I like to quantify things.

>>4828134
We all agree we're going to have to confront this issue eventually. The Freedom Dividend is the best idea anyone had cone up with.
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Sly McKief - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 20:35:47 EST ID:WHiEom0l No.4828180 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Latex guy is on top of the list
lol
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Stevie Richards - Mon, 14 Jan 2019 04:04:27 EST ID:zfZZ71PS No.4828285 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>4828180
>Spunky is second

I’m starting to think it’s not just remnants of /pol/ that hates him.


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