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Tapering by Leman Russ - Sun, 06 Jan 2019 00:59:01 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145091 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1546754341915.jpg -(165484B / 161.61KB, 1242x1416) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 165484
I'm a long time (10+ year) benzo user who has never been in a position where I needed to taper. I've always managed fairly well with no issues.

Recently over the past few months I have been taking small to large doses more and more frequently ending in daily use for fear of having a seizure if I stopped. I was going to stop like a month or 2 in but I didn't want to seize out and also didn't want to not have my 2-3 times a week rec dose so I started taking daily instead of tapering then like I should have. usually its small amounts on most days and then larger amounts on rec days. Of course that got out of wack and both amounts became larger.

So its time to buckle down and taper.

>here is the important part

Despite the fact that I have been taking large amounts I have found that I can get by easily on 6mg of diclazepam/day with no symptoms or anything like that even though realistically I should need a much higher dosage to start tapering with.

If I feel fine on 6mg diclaz 1/day am I good to start tapering down from there or should I boost it up to be safe?

What should I be watching out for during the tapering process to let me know to jump to a higher or previous dose? I don't really care about most of the side effects of coming off. I can endure those. I just don't want to have a seizure.

Would it be a good idea to have a some fast acting benzo on me that I could take in case things start to go fucky? I don't have a problem having them around. I have a good supply of many things and don't give in and take things just because they are around. Obviously being in this situation it sounds like I do but when I was dosing I wanted to dose and now that I'm starting a taper I have no problem putting everything aside. I just feel like having a fast acting benzo on hand could be good if I things start to go downhill with my taper like tremors or something.

If you need anymore info just ask and provide it. I appreciate any and all help.
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Esther Blashbury - Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:59:45 EST ID:NVx4SelS No.145098 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145091
I dont know anything bout diclaz so someone else can shed more light on this. If you start to taper and have no symptoms watch out that it doesnt hit you a few days later. As long as it's a reasonable taper you shouldn't have to worry about seizing.
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Leman Russ - Sun, 06 Jan 2019 18:41:39 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145102 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145098
Its cool. I am sure katz and Dr. M will be around and see this at some point.

I appreciate the comment in the meantime and will definitely be keeping a close watch on my health and anything that presents itself during the taper.
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Dr. Katz !KqgSR25gAQ - Mon, 07 Jan 2019 00:48:30 EST ID:t8lReBf3 No.145106 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145102
I’m on my phone, so please excuse the brevity and inevitable grammatical errors that may occur.

>6mg diclazepam per day
Okay, so you’re taking 6mg diclazepam daily in one single dosage, correct? How long exactly have you been taking this dosage on a daily basis?

>fast acting benzo on me
Not necessarily. The goal of tapering, medically speaking, is that an individual is reducing their dosage in the safest way possible. Diclazepam is actually a great tapering benzo, so suggesting a fast-acting benzo as a back up is rather counterintuitive. Having a benzo with a shorter half-life wouldn’t necessarily pose any tapering benefits outside of reducing panic disorder symptoms rapidly, but could ultimately set you back and/or make tapering 1) a longer process 2) a more difficult process or 3) less successful.

>jump to a higher dose
No, do not do this. Again, you’re tapering. Do not exceed 6mg diclazepam per day. A safe taper schedule that is actually considered to be rather rapid is a 10% dosage reduction per week. As such, you’ll be fully tapered off of a benzo in just 10 weeks. 2.5 months is nothing in the big scheme of things as some tapers can last months on end or even years.

Based upon the fact that you’re administering 6mg diclazepam all at once I think that it would be a better idea to take 2mg three times per day. Spacing your dosage out will help to avoid w/d symptoms. Interdose withdrawal is when an individual has acute withdrawal symptoms in between their dosages. Taking a smaller dosage (2mg) 3x/day at the start would be ideal for you so that you can avoid seizures as well.

>Random tip(s)
Often, when tapering it is common to become “stuck” at a specific dosage. This is truly something that sets a lot of people back and leads to longer than necessary tapers.
Create a note (physically or digitally) of each time that you dose per day. Make sure to stay on the same schedule while tapering. You don’t want to take morning dosage at 7:00 one morning then 12:00 during the weekend. Keep track of your dosages and also log effects as you step down your dosage.
Tapering doesn’t have to be a difficult process. Follow the Ashton Manual and/or the aforementioned recommendations.
If you have further questions I am certain that someone on this site will be able to help you. If absolutely necessary you could check into the E.R. if you somehow lose all access to benzos. Diclazepam metabolizes into lorazepam (Ativan) and is 1:1 equivalent. If you absolutely have to you could go to the E.R. and indicate that you’re addicted to lorazepam. Ideally, you’ll have a diazepam (Valium) or chlordiazepoxide (Librium) script to taper with. 5mg diazepam = 1mg lorazepam/diclazepam.
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Leman Russ - Mon, 07 Jan 2019 02:44:00 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145107 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145106
>Okay, so you're taking 6mg diclazepam daily in one single dosage, correct? How long exactly have you been taking this dosage on a daily basis?
Yeah, about 5 days now of just the 6mg diclaz once a day.

>Not necessarily.
The reason I was thinking about it was for emergency situations only. I would likely never need it but in case I'm out and start getting tremors or something I can take a fast acting benzo to quell it.

>No, do not do this.
The reason I asked is because of the usage level I am at I was worried 6mg diclaz/day would be too low. If I was to have posted this without saying I feel fine with 6mg diclaz a day with such a high level of use most would probably recommend a much higher dosage. If we are looking at regular use 6mg is no where near equipotency.

I was following the 10% taper but was unsure of the dosage. I hadn't considered taking it multiple times a day so I will switch to 2mg when I get up tomorrow.

>If absolutely necessary you could check into the E.R. if you somehow lose all access to benzos
I have a ton of benzos and plenty of diclaz so that isn't an issue. I'm also RX'd clonazepam so I could always swap to that or diazepam if something somehow happened to my diclazepam but I plan on sticking with diclazepam since its easy to make a solution of any concentration as I taper down and as you said it is great for tapering.
>>
Dr. Katz !KqgSR25gAQ - Mon, 07 Jan 2019 14:28:02 EST ID:sD0Xj9Fv No.145113 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145107
If you’ve only been taking diclazepam for 5 consecutive days then you don’t need to taper. In fact, using for 10 weeks could certainly lead to physical dependence during the taper. Five days isn’t enough for physical addiction in the vast majority of cases. Cold turkey is certainly a viable option.

What about any sporadic dosing prior to daily?
>>
Leman Russ - Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:07:46 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145116 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145113
>If you’ve only been taking diclazepam for 5 consecutive days then you don’t need to taper.
I've only been taking the diclaz at 6mg/day for 5 days AS a start to a taper. As I said in the OP:

I'm a long time (10+ year) benzo user who has never been in a position where I needed to taper. I've always managed fairly well with no issues.My use in that time period especially the last 5 years or so has been 2x a week most weeks.

>Recently over the past few months I have been taking small to large doses more and more frequently ending in daily use for fear of having a seizure if I stopped. I was going to stop like a month or 2 in but I didn't want to seize out and also didn't want to not have my 2-3 times a week rec dose so I started taking daily instead of tapering then like I should have. usually its small amounts on most days and then larger amounts on rec days. Of course that got out of wack and both amounts became larger.
>>
drm - Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:56:33 EST ID:FahpUBis No.145128 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145116


I dont mean to be rude, but can i get a tl;dr on your tolerance and history?

Assuming you use medium or short acting benzos, you should stabilize within 7-10 half lifes of the old medication. It sounds like 6mg diclaz works for you.

Heres what I would do if it were me. Stick to the 6mg diclaz/day for another 5 days (10 total), and begin either Ashton manual reduction or double that reduction.

Now if you end up having the worst insomnia ever, its OK to use some etizolam/pharma xanax as a smaller portion of your benzo portfolio, like say 20% dose equivalent max. What I mean is, let's say you're down to 4mg diclazepam. Its okay if you end up needing 1mg etizolam at bedtime to help get to sleep, ontop of your smooth diclazepam dosing.

You can split the diclaz into two half doses if you want, but you'll reach a Tmax concentration regardless eventually.

If you have all the time in the world, use volumetric dosing and just drop 1% of your initial dose per day aka 7% per week. Once you're down to half or 2/3 your initial dosage, you can reduce the speed if you need to.

Just know that apart from etizolam before bed as a small small dose, I wouldn't risk the rebound anxiety of short acting benzos. If you can get to bed without it then stick to diclaz.

Once you're down to like 1-2mg diclaz, look into other gabaergics such as kava kava root and extract, chamomile, valerian root, and LOW dose melatonin for sleep. Stay away from booze.

Let us know how it goes. DO NOT SPLURGE because you think you've been a good boy. This isnt opioids or stims...benzo kindling effect is no fucking joke. I've used up to 30mg of etizolam/day for weeks and weeks maybe 2-3 years ago, and even now after years of tolerance reset I refuse to go above an arbitrary 4mg xanax ever again. Even then I usually take just 1mg. Shit is playing with fire.
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Leman Russ - Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:14:04 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145129 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145128
No problem at all.

First mild use was about 15 years ago. Dosage then was very rare during the first 3-5 years. About 10 years ago is when I started taking them more frequently.

More or less during that time up until about 4 months ago I wouldn't take much maybe a 2-3mg alprazolam, 4mg clonazepam, or an equipotent dose of many different diazepines and pretty much solely 2x/week occasionally 3 but almost never consecutively and never more than 2 days in a row when I used consecutively. On very rare occasions when it was actually needed I would take a smaller dose medicinally apart from the times/dosages listed above. I did this for pretty much the entirety of the last 10 years without issue.

4 months ago almost to the day I started taking them more and more frequently. I got a month in and got worried about cessation causing seizures. I didn't want to just stop and something bad happen. Obviously this is where I should have started tapering but regardless I carried on with my use for the next three months leading up until now.

As for the last 3 months my dosages are all over the place. Sometimes I'll take .5mg clam with 300ug flubromazolam. Sometimes I'll add 2-4mg etiz or 2mg kpins to that, sometimes I will take 400ug flubromazolam and 2mg alprazolam, others fluaplrazolam. Alprazolam, etizolam, meclonazepam, bromazolam, flubromazepam, or diazepam, diclazepam, triazolam, triazepam, midazolam, kpins, etc GHB a couple of times(not a benzo I know)

It really varied greatly from day to day. Sometimes I'd just take 6mg dicalz or 4mg clonazepam or something similar. As time passed over those 3 months the amount of times I'd take a smaller dose would fall and the frequency in which I took a larger one would grow. This is the reason I was concerned 6mg diclazepam/day might not be enough considering the chems and dosages I sometimes took.

I went 10 years of 2x a week usage at what I consider low dosages and never had an issue but in the last 3 months its gotten out of control and I just want to reign it back in. I have no problem buckling down and tapering. I have a very fucked up back and have been on pain management for a long time and work a physically intensive job so I am used to most of the symptoms that are stated to accompany benzo use. I just want to safely reign in my use without having a seizure hence the taper and the post.

Insomnia is not a big deal and something I'm not concerned about. I've only every slept about 4-5 hours a night and even with my RXs I hardly every sleep well. I wouldn't dose and "break" my taper just to get some sleep.

>You can split the diclaz into two half doses if you want, but you'll reach a Tmax concentration regardless eventually.
The reason I said I would switch to dosing 2mg 3x/day is because you recommended it over 6mg once a day. So now I am unsure if I should be doing 2x3, 3x2 or 1x6.

>I wouldn't risk the rebound anxiety of short acting benzos.
Like I said, the only reason I mentioned keeping some on me was in case I started experiencing troubling symptoms like tremors to prevent a seizure.
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Leman Russ - Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:20:48 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145130 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145128
>>145113
Also, I appreciate all of the help and time you've spent helping me with your replies as you always provide to people in similar situations.

I've been frequenting this board and many others for a long time and have had many conversations with you both in the past. I never thought it would happen to me after having it under complete control for over a decade now and seeing all the posts about it and I'm a bit embarrassed that it did to be honest hence the new namefield. I just went though a rough patch and didn't take note until it was too late. Crazy how over 10 years of responsible use can be undone in a month or two.

nb
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Leman Russ - Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:14:36 EST ID:xfZyUmB9 No.145172 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Bumping so drm and Katz's see my replies.
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Sophie Bronkinhot - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:27:37 EST ID:6t4v39M1 No.145187 Ignore Report Quick Reply
afaik the hardest on the liver are the ones with nitro groups because that's where they are metabolised to amino groups while producing some reactive oxygen species, still not really enough to be a concern for anyone with a healthy liver

most others are also metabolised at least partially in the liver but not much bad stuff is made during

the 3-oh ones are just glucuronidated and pissed out so these are the safest and have the most predictable metabolisms in people with liver disease
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Dr. Katz !KqgSR25gAQ - Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:13:57 EST ID:t8lReBf3 No.145197 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>145172
Apologies for the late responses. Stick to your taper and make sure that you go either 1) use the Ashton Manual or 2) stick to the 10% per week dosage reduction.
Remember to log your dosages.

Best of luck, OP.


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