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Blood sttranded by Cyril Crennerbick - Sun, 05 Nov 2017 15:33:50 EST ID:Wd54ldDh No.78892 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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What does blood get like really after large amounts of it leave the body and stay on the ground like in a war-field?
>>
Archie Crimmerstone - Sun, 05 Nov 2017 23:23:22 EST ID:H8Vs9M6y No.78893 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78892
It gets all dirty. eww.

On a serious note, I'd imagine it is eaten by bacteria/fungi/animals and returns to the carbon cycle. Blood just a mixture of organic chems, it returns to nature pretty naturally. Soil composition after would be high in nutrients found in the blood of those who died. An entire village of banana eaters slaughtered would have high potassium blood
>>
Bombastus Werrywag - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:26:01 EST ID:OZqbjhvG No.78895 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78892
explode a deer in the woods and see where the blood goes
>>
Phoebe Fanville - Thu, 23 Nov 2017 20:21:40 EST ID:xdtGflx/ No.78923 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78892
a middle ages era battle field is probably one of the best fertilizer sources nature could have hoped for


Alternatives... by Angus Drumblestone - Fri, 17 Nov 2017 21:12:19 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78910 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I've been on 420chan for a long time, and so i ask this with respect. Is there a better place that some of the more serious chemists here talk about things?

Not to hate on 420chan but I feel like there may be better places to discuss chemistry with people who are like minded. Perhaps IRC?
5 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Reuben Cledgechot - Sun, 19 Nov 2017 15:00:02 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78917 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Hey thanks for the suggestions, I mean pretty much so far my knowledge is very limited and although i'd like to contribute meaningful topics i'm afraid I wouldn't be able to do much apart from guesswork, asking for help or just coming up with ideas that are probably stupid.

It's a shame /chem/ has been dead for a while, I remember a long time ago when it seemed to be a nice little community but i didn't really come here that much way back then.

Anyway i'm probably going to be active on here a lot and maybe when i start getting to grips with chemistry at a higher level I can maybe do my part to improve this board.

On second thought maybe i'll just change courses to alchemy?
>>
Basil Bucklesuck - Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:41:10 EST ID:pmYWBMz8 No.78918 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I like reading dmt nexus
>>
press !XIxc6BpKnU - Tue, 21 Nov 2017 05:42:48 EST ID:4coI32Fl No.78920 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78918
ime dmt nexus has the same problem that the shroomery has
a plethora of increbible amazing information that almost makes me cry stuck between halfwitted posts made by idiots that willfully ignore that theyre accessing the greatest invention mankind has come up with this far.

id really like /chem to have some more physics but while the current applications of physics in data transmitting are basically science fiction magic bullshit to me eventhough i work in the field, its less hands on than lets say cooking mescaline from vanilla aroma and rc car fuel
>>
Cyril Bellylin - Tue, 21 Nov 2017 12:12:31 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78921 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78920
>its less hands on

I would love to see some hands on useful or interesting things to do at home with a little glassware. I'm not even that bothered about drug synthesis or drug discussion as long as the topic is interesting.

Anyways i'm probably down to browse through a few theoretical physics or chemistry threads if they were made.

Perhaps you should make another thread and tell me all about the interesting bits of your field of work.
>>
Fucking Greenspear - Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:40:35 EST ID:hBAZGxou No.78922 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>78916
so much for hammy's secret messageboard lol. i've heard of people moving over to darknets but I've never heard the name of a hidden service forum for drug chemistry...


Mathematics by Hamilton Brusslested - Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:42:33 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78876 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I'm struggling with the maths of chemistry.

Anyone else hate the maths side of things? I see it as a necessary evil but I still hate it.
>>
Hugh Songerwadge - Fri, 03 Nov 2017 08:22:25 EST ID:fF5X4qiu No.78889 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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same issue here
>>
Ebenezer Nuvingstock - Sat, 04 Nov 2017 12:44:11 EST ID:sFJy067c No.78890 Ignore Report Quick Reply
yea shit will jump out at you like logarithmic rules or exponent rules, just gotta keep track of it all. i find it helps to write every step, no shortcuts in the calculator
>>
press !XIxc6BpKnU - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 15:45:46 EST ID:4coI32Fl No.78897 Ignore Report Quick Reply
im a bit ashamed to admit it but im still really happy i never had to do quantum physics .

one sort of "trick" that helped me to keep my motivation high enough to actually practice enough to pass was to come up with thought experiments or bullshit problems that required me to use the maths. using the idea work as play to your advantage gets really hard with stuff like a fucking particle on a sphere


a part from that i often find myself thinking "wow thats really interesting, im sure this is a fascinating concept, but id rather leave this to somebody else that actually enjoys this. id rather do retrosynthesis or let a computer do the calculating or eat ass right now

is there a particular area that you are struggling with


>>78890
i remember those by using base ten stuff. you can quickly derive those by messing around with potencies of ten
>>
Ian Pucklemare - Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:47:19 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78907 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78897
>is there a particular area that you are struggling with
Everything really, it's just i'm pretty fresh to all of this and have spent a long time out of education before going back into it. Things can kind of make sense when i tackle them head on but if a couple of days after that I come across a problem, i'll struggle to actually think of the best way to calculate an answer.

I can't think of any problems off hand but if one comes up i'll post it here.

>gets really hard with stuff like a fucking particle on a sphere
I did have some problems on this and it was bullshit. Can't the computers do all of this and i'll stick to learning my way around the organic labs.
>>
Basil Bucklesuck - Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:44:13 EST ID:pmYWBMz8 No.78919 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I used to sip whiskey and do chemistry hw when I was going to community college

I somewhat grew to like the elegance of trying to solve a problem with a line of fractions and words that cancel out.


Candyflip creation by Alice Fezzlefoot - Sun, 28 May 2017 22:51:16 EST ID:eE+IWTWR No.78666 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I'm looking to start small-scale creation of mdma and lsd. I've got next to no chem. knowledge, and no lab setup yet.

Got any recommendations for reading? Uncle fester and schulgin are the only ones i know of and both are above my pay grade.
What glassware is required? Recommended?
Any recommended materials sources?

Thanks
15 posts and 3 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Theophrastus Werrywag - Mon, 04 Sep 2017 05:40:52 EST ID:npebQgFy No.78829 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78767
fester has a lot of obsolete, inaccurate, and dangerous advice in a lot of his writeups

if you don't know how to problem solve and be creative with limited reagents and the generally accepted academic method of synthesizing LSD, it'd be much cheaper and efficient to buy strips off the deepweb
>>
Lydia Honeystock - Sat, 30 Sep 2017 06:32:29 EST ID:H2dReURr No.78873 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78786
This! Make 2c-b pleeease! Flood the market! Make so much that a dose is a dollar!
>>
Schepperschop - Wed, 04 Oct 2017 02:13:42 EST ID:xTIigKo1 No.78875 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78873
I would appreciate you posting sorry for that post.
Because it is a terrible post.
>>
TinyTrip !5pb17tfZto - Fri, 20 Oct 2017 18:13:17 EST ID:R8gNW3ol No.78882 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78666
You won't have the knowledge base or resources to synth LSD if this is a start from scratch learn as you (I can't say I've ever looked at this other than from a hypothetical POV).

Fester's Book is riddled with misinfo, dangerous, and outdated but if that lost you I don't know where to point. Also, the name is Shulgin not Schulgin


Look up the Leuckart Route or other reductive aminations (aluminum foil method), to my knowledge, these are common ways clandestine individuals produce racemic MDMA, assuming you locate some PMK.

Like someone else stated this is like saying I want to build a nuclear reactor but have no knowledge in engineering or nuclear physics. Also I'm broke and have no capital.

All in all, would it not be cheaper/easier and a better risk/reward to take advantage of arbitrage in your local market through use of dark places?
>>
Polly Pullerwill - Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:06:22 EST ID:5byMSt2+ No.78913 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78666
kys


gib stank token plis by leibniz enters an alchemy society - Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:52:49 EST ID:UwpwKm1P No.78908 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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lelbniz
>>
Bombastus !uYErosQbLM!!Mybq1UbK - Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:07:15 EST ID:Fd7VfiYK No.78909 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78908
This can be a good thread. The society itself isn't based around alchemy but to achieve the golden standard through a thought process. Something against the scientific method but still very valid.
It used to be some sort of annoying half-cult but actually provided introspective determination for the members so long as you sign away a bit of your freedom and resources. Kinda like a church or a society of chemists (ACS) that later developed from this structure.

Leibniz's concept of a metaphysical Monad can fit nicely into the school of yestercentury. Something that I have yet to be able to understand fully but can see how it would tie to the alchemical societies back then. He predicted nuclear physics through the destruction of monads (mind to matter "transfer) instead of the more widely accepted concept of indivisible "particles". Though obsolete, it can still be applied today.

We need more metaphysical quantum alchemists today.


I like to post pictures of interesting molecules by Martha Dottingset - Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:00:42 EST ID:k6ZWDP32 No.78906 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1510718442981.png -(9001B / 8.79KB, 749x297) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 9001
Thread premise stolen from Bluelight. Post molecules you think would make promising drugs. They can be totally novel, or known substances that, for whatever reason (synthetic difficulty, obscurity, poor effects) have never hit the recreational market. Relevant links (literature papers, PiHKAL, trip reports, syntheses, etc.) encouraged.

I’ll start with this one. This molecule is 3-methoxy-4-propoxyamphetamine (“POMA”). It’s active as a mildly psychedelic stimulant and mood elevator. Someone has already synthesized and trialed this compound; you can read the full report here (https://bitnest.netfirms.com/external.php?id=%25087%253B%250B9%2501%2509Czzy%2505)

Not terribly exciting, but interesting all the same. He starts with clove oil (containing eugenol), but an alternative route would be to start with vanillin (much cheaper than clove oil), O-propylate, condense with nitroethane, and reduce.


I do a lot of cough syrup by Son of an organic chemist - Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:30:22 EST ID:yfT/VnIi No.78884 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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i am artist who does a lot of dissocitatives

dissociatives involve a lot of nonsense
i have no talent in chemistry but i wanted to show you this
this KLSSTR is nonsense (benzene?)

but alas
alchemy is the precursor to chemistry
six rocks can be achemically arranged in a 6grid if you write K L S S T R in sharpie on them
use this knowledge to advance the chemistry my dear friends

P.S.

My dad is a bretty good chemist
https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts
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>>
Doris Bommlestone - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 19:50:54 EST ID:9c592zYY No.78900 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78899

I'm gonna call you son cause I'm betting I've been here longer than you.

Son, /chem/ was full of /chem/ists in the distant past and we were able to have conversations about /chem/istry and conversations about a wizard believing in nonsense and posting about it incessantly. Now it's all dumbass shit that purposely makes no sense.

It's not this bad on /tesla/ though that board is a corpse anyways. Not that /chem/ isn't basically dead anyways. I guess it's not as bad as /tinfoil/ but shit is all retarded here.

I actually miss the wizard times. At least it was entertaining then.
>>
Bombastus Werrywag - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 23:53:44 EST ID:od/nOgRU No.78901 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78900
I actually miss A Wizard too until Vehk chased him off and we got /420/ to ban the IP addresses until all his VPNs expired. Then when every post at him was hostile, he finally quit. He was only really bad on /med/.

Totally forgot /tesla/ was a thing. Same thing with /diy/. /chem/ i'm here because it's a containment thread revolving around Vehk, Press, and high kids from /weed/ that get spooped about quantum physics.

I wanna discuss opiate science but I'd much rather just do that in real life. Green Fox was helpful, too. But anyone without drugs as a tether eventually ends up leaving this god-forsaken place. Too bad I'll probably need opiates for the rest of my life (even if it's only a few times every month). Realistically, I could start posting good threads about opiate science and other drug science, but I'd much rather just talk to people IRL about that and who can give insight into my orgo questions and techniques.

In any case, you can call me son if you want. I used to go on the /dis/ or /weed/ much more and didn't decide posting on /chem/ until I tripped up. Not sure how long ago that was (and don't really want to know). Maybe a /tesla/ /chem/ merge would be helpful. All in all, it serves as a good backup board once tha futoor's /sci/ board goes down inevitably.
>>
Doris Bommlestone - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 01:04:04 EST ID:9c592zYY No.78902 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78901

Ohh, didn't know I was responding to the Bomb.

Yeah, I just miss the glory days. And it makes sense to talk to real people with an interest in drug chemistry because all you're going to get is shit posting here now.

I guess I just miss /chem/ because most science boards are pretentious. The attitude here was more relaxed and less douchey.
>>
Bombadoodle Wolframwag - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 21:42:53 EST ID:od/nOgRU No.78903 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78902
heh, yeah. the attitude here is nice since we're all on some sort of drug. also because memes.

also because you can literally just check this board once a month and be "up to date" with the /chem/. same thing with /other/ and /hooch/ and basically every board... nvm i kinda miss old /chem/, yeah.
>>
Clara Fimmerham - Sun, 12 Nov 2017 00:08:32 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78904 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78903
I do real /chem/ nigga


Organic synthesis by Charles Hongerpare - Sat, 28 Oct 2017 09:13:55 EST ID:EfFKvnWj No.78885 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Anyone have any books on organic synthesis. The basics how Synthesis works?
>>
Hedda Fandleforth - Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:56:42 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78888 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78885
Buy almost any Organic Chemistry book...


I got into University by Doris Fovingbock - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 16:10:13 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78765 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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So I went back to college recently to pursue chemistry, I just got accepted into a pretty good uni to do Organic chemistry.

Now since i'm not that young anymore I really need to do well and not fuck this up, so since i really enjoy chemistry and need to make this work i've been putting a whole load of effort into making sure it goes well.

Please give me some recommendations for pre uni reading so I can get a head start.

Also share experiences? I did a pretty short and condensed course to get here I learned all the basics during that but i've stilled missed out on a lot of stuff an 18 year old would have done at the college level, so i'm expecting my first week at uni to be a bit overwhelming and full of things i need to learn but then i've heard from a few people that it's like that for everyone no matter how much extra reading you've been doing.
20 posts and 1 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Sidney Bogglebanks - Wed, 13 Sep 2017 20:10:38 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78849 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>78848
Wat is going on
>>
Lydia Blablingshit - Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:42:27 EST ID:pSC/lMv4 No.78850 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>78834
eh?
>>
Hamilton Brusslested - Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:45:18 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78877 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>78850
whhuuaaaarrt?
>>
Nathaniel Wirringtork - Fri, 20 Oct 2017 12:26:37 EST ID:4tmtdVyg No.78881 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Eyy LMAO

Try Khan Academy. Listen to their lectures on the basic sciences.

Also call me retarded, but I think if I went back to college I would do fucking awesome. You have an edge over the rest of those kids now: you know what the outside world is like.

Back in the day I was smart as shit, but I had little drive, motivation, or direction other than the challenge itself. Nowadays, after 4 years of professional chemistry formulation, I have the experience of research, confidence in my abilities, and an understanding of how shitty being a full on adult is.

You don't really appreciate consequences when you're young in school. But if I ever went back, I would smash that shit.

So here's what I read about students who are Stanford material: Get the books for the course a couple of months ahead, read them before starting class.

Then study the professor's notes and do practice problems as you pass through sections. I always learned more when I wasn't scribbling shit down in class. I don't learn like that, I have to watch, listen, and try to understand.

So my recommendation is: Don't take notes in class. Watch, Listen, Engage yourself. But apparently I'm a rare exception that doesn't learn from rote memorization. I hate memorization. I need to understand.
>>
Martin Berringterk - Sat, 21 Oct 2017 07:43:05 EST ID:MQHcIxm0 No.78883 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78881
You're Retarded


Chemistry is Fucking Crazy by John Segglehall - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:54:47 EST ID:UeKrF7rB No.78879 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I'm barely learning about hybridization theory and already it's requiring my fullest attention and focus to keep up with the concepts. Normally I can half-pay attention in anything from anatomy to calculus to history and grasp the underlying concepts with ease. Is it because I can't see the orbitals and electrons so my mind has difficulty making a "mental map" of it? I thought chem would be as easy for me as all the other sciences but it's shockingly complicated. I'm not even in O-chem yet. Will my brain adapt to this new mode of thinking and I will be okay?
>>
Molly Chindlematch - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:03:15 EST ID:JlSfW3Ow No.78880 Ignore Report Quick Reply
tis normal, it's a good sign to study, good luck!


Anhydrous Ethanol/Methanol by Sidney Hangertack - Fri, 18 Nov 2016 13:57:09 EST ID:zsw9I8fO No.78350 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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How do I go about using something like this (pic) to make anhydrous ethanol or methanol?
7 posts and 1 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Bombastus !uYErosQbLM!!Mybq1UbK - Sat, 10 Dec 2016 18:12:24 EST ID:01P1ms0Q No.78392 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78389
Just fucking buy it. No don't do that with the sieves. If the sieves work, they work, if they don't, they don't.

You can use anhydrous copper sulfate (white) and it'll turn blue in the solution. Keep adding copper sulfate until no more turns blue.

Or you could just buy anhydrous ethanol which is often cheaper than anhydrous copper sulfate and molecular sieves.
>>
Beatrice Penningspear - Fri, 08 Sep 2017 11:10:10 EST ID:69GZASh3 No.78843 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78389
>>78389
4A seive, Watch NileRed (youtube), you will find your example there
>>
Fucking Foppergold - Sun, 10 Sep 2017 18:20:18 EST ID:h12BVAdp No.78845 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78843
y u necrobump
>>
Henry Cramblehall - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:55:54 EST ID:M7FrGPbw No.78846 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78845
its a pretty useful post dont ya think. plus this board is slow enuff
>>
Betsy Nugglesud - Fri, 06 Oct 2017 15:54:21 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78878 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78381
magnesium sulfate won't take it all the way to 200 proof but it will get you slightly past azeotropic ethanol.

Sieves are easy to use; you don't even need to distill anything, and they can be regenerated by simply putting them in a pyrex flask (or improvised equivalent) and heating with a torch while shaking them up until no more condensation appears at the mouth of the container. They will absorb a little water while cooling but it's not much of a problem unless the humidity is super high or you need ABSOLUTELY dry ethanol. If in doubt stick a coffee filter filled with another drying agent (like mag sulf.) in the opening while it cools, so any air entering is relatively dry. Either way, the sieves will still make ethanol way drier than using MgSO4. They do take a while to work, but all you have to do is dry them out, dump them in, let it sit a few days, then filter off the sieves.


Opium Column Chromatography by Bombastus Werrywag - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 21:56:30 EST ID:QGxEeR56 No.78746 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Without calcium chelation, this is the best way to achieve pure morphine from a layer of puddy or otherwise concentrated poppy residue.

A mixture of 9:1:1 DCM Methanol Diethylamine will produce an elution of reticuline impurities at 0.7-0.9, codeine at 0.45, and morphine at 0.2. Other opium oils either elute at 1 and heavier, coloured oils will not elute at all (or under 0.02).

Running this column simulation once gave me morphine as light brown needles which drew in moisture and became wet after 3 hours. The second time, morphine did not completely come through as shown on TLC short wave UV light as what I expected to be high amounts of meconate salts along with insufficient methanol miscibility. This was solved by adding an additional 1 equivalent of methanol thereby moving the morphine. This gave darker brown crystals which again absorbed water after 3 hours. Full morphine elution towards 100% in a gradient column gave 2% of brown oils. This potentially allows a column to remove codeine and oils and a methanol flush to remove the morphine with a 5-10% heavy oil contamination.

Will update this thread with more conclusions and projections.
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press !XIxc6BpKnU - Wed, 06 Sep 2017 10:17:54 EST ID:cWIAjghj No.78837 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>78835
its not hate. i think the kids nowadays call it tsundere. thats basically chinese for trying hard to get.
ill compile the few papers ive got so far soon, damn shame 420chan doesnt support pdfs.
>>
David Buzzwell - Wed, 06 Sep 2017 14:48:20 EST ID:hBAZGxou No.78838 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78832
Mesylic acid? I'm pretty sure methanesulfonate isn't nucleophilic enough to attack an ether. Most demethylations I'm used to hearing about use hydrobromic acid or pyridine hydrochloride. Hydrogen iodide is very effective but also expensive.

>>78831
you can use Zn powder / hydrochloric acid to reduce terminal nitrostyrenes like for mescaline; it's really just nitropropenes that are "hard" to reduce (although Al/Hg licks it)

http://anonym.to/https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/leminger.html
>>
Aureolus Werrywag - Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:47:08 EST ID:HizIkIMY No.78839 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78837
droopbox it up fam

>>78838
there's some paper here that requires something i can't remember
or you can go with hydrobromic acid in acetic acid solution but that's harder to find.
>>
Aureolus Werrywag - Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:53:36 EST ID:HizIkIMY No.78840 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>78838
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/239738471_O-Demethylation_of_Opioid_Derivatives_with_Methane_Sulfonic_Acid_Methionine_Application_to_the_Synthesis_of_Naloxone_and_Analogues

Also US patent US5071985
A mixture of 3.15 g (10-2 mole) of oxycodone, 28.3 g (3.10-1 mole) of methanesulfonic acid and 2.2 g (1.5.10-2 mole) of DL-methionine are heated to 40° and stirred at 12 hours.
Precipitate with ammonia to 9, extract with DCM. Chloroform column with a methanol gradient. 72% yield.
>>
Theophrastus Werrywag - Sun, 01 Oct 2017 01:08:19 EST ID:m5AB1YJF No.78874 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Ima just save this here

https://www.google.com/patents/US3137701

https://www.google.com/patents/US3632580

https://www.google.com/patents/US5112975

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo01215a002?journalCode=joceah

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21630508

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7511163

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21630516
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