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Synthesis of ghb (free acid) from gbl by Matilda Chommlekog - Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:06:27 EST ID:1reNg8pO No.78749 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I recently came across some lab grade gbl (gammy-butyrolactone) which is the precursor to GHB. I've got a few questions because I've never find GH and I'm having a hard time finding some info from chemists who know what they're doing.

Firstly, I wanted to make GH in its free acid firm, rather than the common sodium butyrate salt. What I want to know are whether its fine to take it in free acid form. I think the pka is about 4, so it shouldn't be too sour if diluted in water, but taking it in free acid produces the same effects right? I assume that taking the sodium salt would Judy result in it finding in the acidity of the stomach anyways, I just would prefer to not have to eat a bunch of salt on the side.
Also, did I do something wrong in my procedure?

I started with about 10g gbl weighed analytically, and calculated the moles for sodium hydroxide which was between 6-7g, but I put in some excess to try to push the reaction forward.
I then added a bit of water, roughly 20mL in a round bottom flask, added the hydroxide and then the gbl. After a few minutes, I capped the flask and put it in an oil baths at 70 celcius.
After 2-3 hours, I added a bit of hydroxide to make sure the reaction was basic and he GH would be in its salt form, then I washed the solution with ether 3x to get rid of any remaining unreacted gbl. I took the aqueous layer and added HCl from a 1M solution until the pH was about 2-3, low enough for the gh to be in its acid form. I think the problem is here, because I couldn't find concentrated acid so I ended up adding a lot of water on the side..
Then my last step was to extract the ghb from the autos later with ether. I did this about 3x, combined the etherI'm layers, and evaporated off the ether. I was left with 2g when theoretical yield should have been about 12g.

Do you think that because I ended up using so much water, my remaining gh is in the aqueous solution? I know theree acid is readily soluble in both water and ether, so I'm wondering if this is my problem.

Also, how can I test the solution to show I have ghb with no gbl? I don't want to use the NMR spectrometer just in case somebody ends up seeing the spectrum and askin…
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Matilda Chommlekog - Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:10:40 EST ID:1reNg8pO No.78750 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Sorry about all the spelling/grammar errors, I wrote this on the bus on my phone and it autocorrected way too much.
I meant to write the sodium salt just converts into the free acid in the stomach, so taking the free acid should produce the same effects as taking the salt right?
Lydia Clannerfeck - Thu, 20 Jul 2017 17:47:14 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78751 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ayy so GBL is a prodrug to GHB. You could just eat the GBL.

Keep extracting the aqueous layer. There's probably more in there. Also try adding some salt (NaCl) to the water to lower the solubility of the GHB in it.

You can tell if there's any GHL in it by taste. GHL supposedly tastes awful whereas GHB is tasteless.
press !XIxc6BpKnU - Sat, 22 Jul 2017 18:28:22 EST ID:PJ0/E4z+ No.78753 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ghb has a distinct taste too, it just isnt as fucking horrible as gbl
somewhere between gasoline, coconut and soap
OP have you considered to simply mix the gbl with a sodium carbonate solution to get a ready to use sodium ghb solution.
obviously youd have take in more volume but it always worked for, although getting too much sodium isnt too healthy and the sodium salt gave me just as much diarhea as gbl.
since the sodium salt is hygroscopic anyways youd have to hustle to keep it dry

Cyril Sunnertot - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:41:05 EST ID:CwYciqLe No.78754 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Thanks for the replies everyone. I found a paper and read that ghb is rarely found in its free acid form as it readily converts back to GBL. This back conversion happens even more easily in acidic conditions, which I used to try to protonate the free acid. I will extract as much of what is most likely gbl now from my aqueous solution using salt to push it to the organic layer, evaporate any ether and water left over and mix the gbl back with a small excess of sodium hydroxide. I'll calculate it so that once all the gbl had reacted with the sodium hydroxide in a 1:1 stoichiometric fashion, that the pH will be about 8.5 at the end in a small precculated volume so the ghb doesn't convert back to gbl

Thin Layer Chromatography by Hannah Divingpit - Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:24:25 EST ID:hzoMepax No.78695 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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gonna make some TLC plates using some glass microscope slides, wondering what the best paper to use for cellulose is? i was thinking using a thin tissue or something but it's incredibly soft and porous which makes me think that i might not get very clearly defined results. any suggestions?
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Ebenezer Brookridge - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:54:10 EST ID:ufRuh+sC No.78735 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Would Acetone suffice in place of IPA?

Also, obviously(?) whatever you're testing would require the right kind of solvent to avoid destruction of the sample - anyone care to elaborate on this?

Very interested in TLC (and making a ghetto HPLC setup) myself
Cedric Dreffinghall - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 13:40:54 EST ID:4tmtdVyg No.78736 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Acetone can be used in tlc, but for best results, you may want to combine the acetone with chloroform at various concentrations. Acetone would behave as the polar component of your eluent while chloroform would behave as the non-polar component of your eluent.

Try 100/0 75/25 50/50 25/75 0/100

Should get a variety of results for your purposes.
Cedric Dreffinghall - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 13:49:20 EST ID:4tmtdVyg No.78737 Ignore Report Quick Reply

As far as destruction of the sample, when you choose a solvent for solvating the material, it must do two things:

Dissolve the sample
Be inert to the sample

As an example, sulfuric acid will probably dissolve your sample, but will typically make a poor solvent due to the likelyhood of it protonating the shit out of your sample. A solvent like octane will make a good solvent for non-polar materials because it is straight chain hydrocarbons which are non-reactive under standard conditions. Same concept with acetone, except for polar samples.

Both octane and acetone can become reactive with the right materials under the right conditions, and that's why you need to know what your sample reacts with so you can choose a solvent that will both dissolve the sample and be inert to it.
Ebenezer Brookridge - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:24:29 EST ID:ufRuh+sC No.78738 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Awesome info, thank you
Bombastus Werrywag - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 17:45:21 EST ID:QGxEeR56 No.78745 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You can use pure water if paper is your stationary phase.

BK-2-CB > Injectable 2-CB solution? by George - Thu, 06 Jul 2017 06:02:36 EST ID:A0Fffnyd No.78722 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Have tried this three (3) times with repeatable results:

2ml sterile water

(x) amount of Ascorbic Acid to sufficiently acidify the water (No precise measuring equipment available)

(x) amount of B-K-2-CB (As above)

Add enough Ascorbic Acid (it is believed Citric as supplied in UK would work as well) to the water to dissolve *Without Heating*

Add (x) amount of B-K to dissolve with *a very little heating* or you're going to be injecting recrystallised 2-CB - exciting as that sounds, it is fucking painful and could possibly end very quickly in sudden cardiac arrest, depending on which vein is used... *BE VERY CAUTIOUS*

Enjoy your instant stimmy effects followed by typical 2-CB effects

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William Sesslechane - Thu, 06 Jul 2017 19:42:30 EST ID:haI/LE4/ No.78730 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Just a quick reply for now, I do believe the B-K commonly supplied is a base, hence the shitty reaction with water, also the long reaction time when taken orally

So I theorised that adding it to *acidified* water would return it to salt, either 2-CB or a useful form of BK

Why is it not possible to convert B-K to 2-CB?

Also not sure of the legality of B-K in Deutschland, aber Ich hab gemacht ein Besucht fur drei Gram und es kommt mit kein Problem...
press !XIxc6BpKnU - Fri, 07 Jul 2017 03:04:15 EST ID:8p3TFTlr No.78731 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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its possible to convert bk-2c-b to 2c-b, but youd need a strong reductant to reduce the ketone at the beta or rather 1-position carbon to a methylene. as youve said, adding citric acid to bk-2c-b would simply form a more water soluble salt of bk-2c-b. but not 2c-b. youd get bk-2c-b citrate
Samuel Davingdidge - Fri, 07 Jul 2017 12:44:17 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78733 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The standard procedure for reducing ketones to alkanes in one step is the wolff-kishner reduction, which requires complexation of the ketone with hydrazine (used in rocket fuel) and heating the mixture to 200 C for a few days to a week. ascorbic acid is a MILD reducing agent, and there is pretty much zero chance of this method producing even fractions of a percent of yield of 2CB from bk-2CB. The placebo effect is a much better reducing agent, but still not as good as hydrazine.
Hannah Susslebury - Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:36:34 EST ID:rANt8sEP No.78734 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Awesome guys, thanks for all the info... Back to the drawing board then, or a very expensive lab...
Bombastus Werrywag - Tue, 11 Jul 2017 17:43:46 EST ID:QGxEeR56 No.78744 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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You don't need need Hydrazine. LiAH could work because of the conjugation from the pi ring. If LiAH does work, then you can just do it using the pop bottle test and overkill it with LiAH. No water allowed, of course.

A simpler, cheaper, but much harder method is clemmenson that is an in-situ reducing agent (hydrogen gas) by mixing a zinc or mercury amalgum and with HCl or HBr

keine chemische ist legal im deutschland... danke, praesident der E-U.

From what my basic knowledge of receptors tells me (from around one and a half pharmaceutical chemistry courses i took a while ago) is that that ketonic group would be much less active than 2c-b for dopamine / serotonin effects. it could possibly give you the side effects of the compund but none of the mental, spiritual, or stimulating properties.

Extract Heroin from Garlic Paste by Toum - Mon, 01 May 2017 08:23:55 EST ID:GJqJPZ5S No.78644 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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This is urgent as my life literally depends on it. My suppliers showed up with what was seemingly my regular kg pickup but actually was 10kg of garlic paste with the heroin suspended within it somehow. Am told that I have to extract the materials from the paste for them or I will exist no more.

Will a simple Acid Base extraction do the trick IE:

Mix Paste into Water + Lye Solution and Agitate for hour

Add solvent of choice (Cold Distilled Water + Methanol Mixture?)

Let contents settle

Siphon Solvent and Evaporate to retrieve powder

Purify powder using known methods via HCL / Diethyl Ether

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Polly Dubberhood - Thu, 04 May 2017 19:02:13 EST ID:hBAZGxou No.78648 Ignore Report Quick Reply
this sucks because heroin hydrolyses in water and it's been in water for a long time so... it's probably hydrolysed! oopsie. heroin doesn't hydrolyse very fast in neutral water but you can bet after a few weeks a lot of it is broken down to 6-monoacetyl morphine

anyway, what I would do first is dry the garlic to a powder and then wash with cold deionized water a few times which should dissolve and remove sugar but not heroin. Save a little water from each wash and see how much sugar is coming off; you'll probably have to wash it about four or five times. Also make sure you're not losing too much heroin. Then you can perform an A/B extraction on the resulting garlic powder (extract it with COLD acid, filter, then basify) to end up with heroin. You'll actually get rid of all the minor constituents and garlic alkaloids from the heroin by just recrystallizing it from ethyl acetate or something, but since it's partially hydrolysed it might not recrystallize very well. If it gets too hot it can hydrolyse.

If you can't get a clean recrystallization and it's ruining your yield, you can try hydrolysing the whole mess in boiling NaOH (which converts heroin to morphine), extracting that and re-forming heroin with acetic anhydride. That would suck though.

And tell your idiot suppliers not to put the heroin in water next time.
Polly Nallystone - Mon, 22 May 2017 18:40:32 EST ID:+YUSEic8 No.78660 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Seriously who hides heroin in garlic paste?
Cyril Hasslespear - Fri, 30 Jun 2017 08:46:34 EST ID:BIUvdYqW No.78716 Ignore Report Quick Reply
bro, no one is gonna send valuable tar in garlic powder, I hope you die for being tar dealer
George Depperfit - Sat, 01 Jul 2017 11:12:11 EST ID:4tmtdVyg No.78717 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Holy lol,

I wouldn't try acid base, I'd start with an aromatic solvent like xylene. Diamorphine is highly aromatic and you're more likely to get a hit on a non polar aromatic solvent. Plus acid base is typically used to free chemicals from plant matter. Since garlic doesn't naturally contain morphine, or any forms of it, I would think that the morphine is mixed in rather than bonded with the garlic in any way.

I would try soaking the material in xylene for an hour, placing the mixture in a cheese cloth, and squeezing the liquid into a separate container, preferably glass since some plastics are soluble in aromatic/non-polar solvents. Then chill the strained liquid in a freezer and scrape up the solids that come out. Use the liquid left over to soak the garlic again for a second and third extraction.

More than likely, the solids that appear after freezing will be dirty with garlic compounds as well, but it's the first step in the right direction. after that, just purify it.
George Depperfit - Sat, 01 Jul 2017 11:20:59 EST ID:4tmtdVyg No.78718 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Oh wow, this thread is old as fuck

OP, you dead?

howthefuck by Hedda Tootford - Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:16:38 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78700 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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ergine from morning glory seeds
xylene from paint thinner (in place of toluene)
diethylamine from the hydrolysis of DEET
hydroxylamine sulfate from photography supply
By your powers combined, DIY-LSD!


Work thoughts by Hugh Bangersotch - Sun, 21 May 2017 07:51:22 EST ID:ZPX2kpEE No.78655 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Does anyone else think of dumb shit while they're at work? Yesterday I was thinking about bubble theory, what if this entire universe repeats itself exactly when it ends.

So everything happens again and again in one big circle, like how your pulse keep pulsing and your lungs keep breathing, what if the solar system is an element like those in the periodic table, I mean if you look at one then you see the electrons orbiting around a neutron or something right?

I realise all this is very retarded but this kind of thinking does help the hours go by.
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Edward Claybury - Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:05:02 EST ID:lPzkmzGj No.78679 Ignore Report Quick Reply
in the BOHR MODEL: the electrons look like little planets rotating around stars. inconveniently the bohr model does not compare to experiments well. quantum mechanics which states that electrons form clouds which look nothing like planetary orbits work much better.

I think there is a sense in which your thinking has something to it. From the molecular scale to the universe there are many things which look roughly the same since there are basically not that many fundamental forces through which things interact (in the case of non-dark matter which we understand well). For example planets under the action of gravity (a potenial that scales as 1/r where r is distance between the two objects and is attractive) really look quite similar to electrons interacting with protons (a potential that scales as 1/r and is attractive). Early models based off this (by Bohr) worked ok, but failed to predict really important aspects of atoms. Physics is basically about making analogies like this, but knowing that they will fail at some point.

As for whether the universe repeats itself, I figure that is possible in a certain way. All the math done to understand our Big Bang, would technically apply to any similar Big Bang. However you should look into this concept known as chaos. There are many systems which are totally understood as a chain of reasonable physical events (event 1 leading to event 2 so and so forth to some final state). Yet the sequence of events is so sensitive to the initial preparation of the system, that in practice the final state of the system appears completely random. Probably the outcome of the big bang a few billion years after the fact would look highly randomized. I figure the odds of a big bang happening completely identical to ours, leading to you reposting this comment are crazily low.
Betsy Dapperwater - Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:56:07 EST ID:4tmtdVyg No.78680 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>which states that electrons form clouds

I always thought that the 'cloud' was a conceptual method to help us visualize what is happening at the subatomic level, as in the cloud is the average position of the electron while the electron is still a minuscule fraction of the cloud as a whole.

Does the electron take up the entire space of the cloud? Or is located at a single point in the cloud which we average to be spatially accurate? Or is it both? Or is it neither? Am I here now or am I an average of my current position? Am I real?
Ernest Bubberbanks - Wed, 14 Jun 2017 00:00:06 EST ID:GaLvZHtU No.78684 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Read the other anon's post. The cloud isn't a "cloud", it's a probability field where the electrons are about 90% of the time.
When you get down to such small particles they don't behave like matter, so it's hard to visualize. Basically these electrons pop in and out of existence and preferably along this cloud, albeit sometimes outside.
Martin Garryhuck - Sat, 17 Jun 2017 12:42:54 EST ID:rFcppG1T No.78692 Ignore Report Quick Reply
by cloud I mean a region where the particle is by far most likely to be. They don't look like circles was my main point as it indicated the planet-sun analogy breaks down at some point.
The answer to where the electron is depends on who you ask. The coppenhagen interpretation is that the electron only exists when you measure it. It has the potential to be in many places within the cloud, but only exists once measured. The Bohnian interpretation is that the electron is always there, but is traveling along a wave and interacting with the wave so that the probabilities of measuring it in any given place are complicated.
Both these views, and a few others, have their supporters in the physics community. I personally have problems with both. Firstly because niether of them provide new predictions, only interpretation I am not so keenly interested in them. Secondly both have issues. It is commonly accepted that though the coppenhagen interpretation provides a consistent way of understanding quantum, it isn't very satisfying physically. Generally physicists like to have a deeper set of mechanics they can understand a given system to be composed of, even if they don't need to include it in the math. Then the Bohmian interpretation, which providing such an underlying picture, is yet to explain essential qm phenomena such as entanglement.
As a result I suggest you let math lead your interpretatiom on quantum. Our desire to create mechanical pictures can be problematic in qm. It has led major qm pioneers to state qm is incomplete or broken. Yet with our weird mathematical description we understand how fundamental particles interact, how to make transitors for computers, engineer flourescent dyes which are essential to modern biology, and image things at the molecular level using spectroscopy.
Phyllis Furringfield - Sun, 18 Jun 2017 10:15:49 EST ID:bunUMqYH No.78693 Ignore Report Quick Reply
electrons are a lot like cats

P2NP reductive amination by Zeb - Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:02:04 EST ID:F56IS3nI No.78536 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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where can i find the true procedure to reduce P2NP to the amine with hgcl2/al?
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press - Tue, 16 May 2017 17:59:40 EST ID:OHYz+LTM No.78654 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ime Eleusis was partly correct in hi quotation of vogels.
if you prepare the aluminium in advance it tends to get the job done much quicker and ... well quicker and thus much more dangerously. you should always care for proper safety precautions converning spillage when dealing with highly toxic bullshit.
Archie Bungerworth - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 15:20:38 EST ID:buvhlIwH No.78675 Ignore Report Quick Reply
just how high are you?
press - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 05:18:01 EST ID:xjn9cxbO No.78676 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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a strong six out of ten, id guess.

The Proper Preparation of Aluminum Amalgam
by Eleusis

This is for all of you Dr. Shulgin fans out there that might be a little miffed at poor yields when attempting mild reductive aminations (not the fruity little Disney characters, kids). The trick here is *cleaning* the damned foil before you use it. Follow closely, be careful with the mercuric solutions, they can be absorbed transdermally (in other words, use gloves, dumbass).
Preparation of Aluminum Amalgam

Aluminum Amalgam is a useful mild reducing agent which requires careful preparation in order to be effective. The following is adapted from Vogel's Practical Organic Chemistry.

Prepare 10% Sodium Hydroxide solution by dissolving 20g NaOH in 180mL of distilled water.

Prepare a ~2% Mercuric (II) Chloride solution by dissolving 1g of HgCl2 in 50mL of distilled water.
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Nicholas Dunningbut - Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:49:28 EST ID:ZYvGRZ+j No.78689 Ignore Report Quick Reply
tbh I prefer to use something more direct and efective to reduce chemicals
Bombastus !uYErosQbLM!!Mybq1UbK - Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:45:52 EST ID:Pues0B4h No.78690 Ignore Report Quick Reply
LiAlH under nitrogen. But then again, that's completely different...

Volatile stuff by Fuck Worthingwill - Sun, 21 May 2017 20:21:38 EST ID:hNxjAHrm No.78658 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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At my job in a corn refinery I check solutions of 3% NH3, 2&5%NaOH, 7%HCl w/v using a graduated cylinder, specific gravity bobber, a pH meter temperature probe, and a reference calculation.

Is there a better way? It seems to me we should be able to incorporate some kind of probe out in the plant to check these constantly and automatically adjust instead of taking everyone's time to do them be hand every few hours, look at the results elsewhere, call them reasonably accurate, and adjust, all the while exposing the sample collectors and lab personnel to hazards.

Pic is from my research plot at uni, Boris came from a stray pollen grain in this otherwise introgressed population and had to be castrated.
Angus Pickstone - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 02:35:29 EST ID:Yd/IDzLj No.78673 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Corn refinery?
Hamilton Bockledock - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 03:20:48 EST ID:zsw9I8fO No.78674 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I wish I could tell you but I don't know about fractional distillation nor column chromatography. Sorry sir.
press - Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:39:45 EST ID:3upPNRT1 No.78686 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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im not familiar with the setup of a sugar factory and i dont know what exactly youre asking but in some cases an icorporated EC or pH sensor -or a series thereof- is good enough to adjust to the correct levels.

but if all youre checking is the stated solutions which are then added in a whole batch as opposed to continous flow, id reckon that a graduated zylinder and a single EC or pH probe that is calibrated for the given range would be enough. you could then just mix them in bulk and store the fitting amounts in containers? ive got no fucking idea.

as i now begin rambling id like you to take everything with a 58g of salt.
for automation of pH and EC and density you could use an arduino based sensor system if youre just getting into automation. there are quite reliable prebuilt shields and chips for pH and EC. depending on the general setup of the system you could either use a microcontroller, arduino based or a clone, and fucking labview, or run a microcontroller via python to log data and readjust the solutions. but in my experience the pumps and valves(which would normally fare fine at the concentrations youve listed) are still fucking expensive or not that easy to build from scrap.

and no offense, eventhough ive been both a security supervisor and a union representative, there bettter be a huge lot of 3% ammonia or 7% HCl before its more of a danger to personnel than to equipment.

was that 2,5% sodium hurensohnoxide or 2,5? and just keep volatile shit out of direct sunlight and in airtight bottles that arent placed above a fire.

Hydroxyl Free Radicals by Hunter S. Nodson - Thu, 25 May 2017 14:43:57 EST ID:+41/TUGa No.78663 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I'm currently using kratom to isolate its alkaloids via oxidation > extraction and am starting to get concerned of possible byproducts of my reaction. I am not using lab grade glassware for the first steps involving oxidation with H2O2.

My main concern, is it possible for free radicals to form and possible trace amounts of metals in my final product. I'm basically soaking the kratom in H2O2 and agitating on low heat with small amounts of citric acid added, then that is continued until the material is almost completely dry where I'm assuming the leftover liquid is water since the H2O2 oxidizes the mitragynine and 7-OHM into mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. Can anyone experienced in organic chemistry help me out with this?

We only use cold water for the extraction of the oxidized kratom material so that isn't much of a concern as much as using metal pots and pans during the actual oxidation process. Should I be concerned of consuming free radicals once fully evaporated? Are there any possible byproducts that can form from doing this?

Thanks a ton and excuse my ignorance in chemistry, I don't know shit besides what I learned in highschool and my current research onto this topic.

The pic attached is the final product after filtration of the initial oxidized material through cold water into 5 then 1 micron filters then finally evaporated at low heat.
Jenny Gashford - Tue, 30 May 2017 01:03:54 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78669 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>My main concern, is it possible for free radicals to form and possible trace amounts of metals in my final product. I'm basically soaking the kratom in H2O2 and agitating on low heat with small amounts of citric acid added, then that is continued until the material is almost completely dry where I'm assuming the leftover liquid is water since the H2O2 oxidizes the mitragynine and 7-OHM into mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. Can anyone experienced in organic chemistry help me out with this?
Unless you can find a paper that confirms that this is possible with peroxide, you have no way of knowing whether this works, doesn't do anything, or converts the reactants into something else entirely. Just because mitragynine pseudoindoxyl is a metabolite of mitragynine doesn't necessarily mean you can just use any oxidant to get a clean conversion from one to another. You'll be more likely to succeed if you collect pure mitragynine via acid-base extraction and then oxidize it, probably with something other than peroxide.

>We only use cold water for the extraction of the oxidized kratom material so that isn't much of a concern as much as using metal pots and pans during the actual oxidation process. Should I be concerned of consuming free radicals once fully evaporated? Are there any possible byproducts that can form from doing this?
Free radicals do not persist in solution that long. nothing you can do with 3% peroxide is going to be more toxic than either the leaves or the peroxide solution.

>The pic attached is the final product after filtration of the initial oxidized material through cold water into 5 then 1 micron filters then finally evaporated at low heat.
Unless you added a fuckton of acid it's unlikely that what you have is much different from soaking kratom in water for a long time and then evaporating. Start with an acid-base extraction to get the alkaloid contents of the leaves.
Hunter S. Nodson - Tue, 30 May 2017 01:32:25 EST ID:5wCuF3rA No.78670 Ignore Report Quick Reply
there are articles on it, it is documented my man. It takes a few minutes of google and there is plenty on the oxidation of 7-ohm into mitragynine psuedoindoxyl. I'll post it tomorrow when I get a chance though.

thanks for that reassurance, like I said I'm ignorant to this in all aspects and this is a learning experience for me so bare with me. We did though, I got the pH down to 4. As far as the difference between just soaking in water, we've tested it. It does not come out like this at all. The peroxide makes a giant difference. I do understand h2o2 wont oxidize much until the pH is lowered a decent amount.
Hunter S. Nodson - Tue, 30 May 2017 18:30:19 EST ID:5wCuF3rA No.78671 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Graham Chunkinham - Thu, 01 Jun 2017 18:15:12 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I still highly recommend acid base extraction so you can work with pure reactants rather than trying to oxidize the raw leaves. You have no idea how much oxidant to add because there are thousands of different compounds in the mix all with different oxidation potentials.

Also the paper you posted is an overview of a semisynthesis of mitragynine pseudoindoxyl from something other than mitragynine. I still can't find anything on chemically converting one to the other. Everything i've found so far involves bacterial or fungal metabolism to affect the rearrangement. The way I see it, it is very unlikely that you will be able to produce a sizable amount of pseudoindoxyl with household oxidants. I am kind of curious about this now though so I am still searching.

Stoichiometry a bitch by Nathaniel Blellyway - Fri, 26 May 2017 04:22:42 EST ID:WkWxSK6I No.78664 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Could someone please jog the old memory bank. How in the fuck do you get 1.8×10^(-6) from 2.8x10^(-8) mol × 63.5g mol-1???
Caroline Drennerwell - Fri, 26 May 2017 13:09:34 EST ID:UyoEcrVg No.78665 Ignore Report Quick Reply
2.8 times 63.5 is 177.8
Move the decimal over a couple places and you get 10^-6 instead of -8
It's rounded to 1.8 because of significant figures.

i'll just leave this here by Betsy Gonkinlot - Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:58:41 EST ID:6p22FvVe No.78612 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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cf piperine, phenylacetic acid, etc.
5 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
Schepperschop - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 07:54:25 EST ID:xTIigKo1 No.78639 Ignore Report Quick Reply
how about you get some sesamol instead???
Rebecca Clapperbare - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 19:51:12 EST ID:6Uohuwu9 No.78640 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Tungsten costs a few tens of dollars per pound. I was excited to use tungsten instead of ruthenium which is about $50/ounce or indium which is similar. Additionally tungsten is widely used in tools which are OTC whereas runthenium and indium are only used in electronics. About one ounce of tungstic acid is used to cleave 100 grams of piperic acid.

Sesamol is impractical. The content of sesamol in sesame oil is less than 1%. I spent years developing routes from sesamol and felt like an idiot when I realized this.
Charlotte Hurringchare - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:52:15 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78643 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What about forming the diol with peroxide and base then cleavage with nickel?

This paper shows 1,2-cyclohexanediol can be cleaved to adipic acid just by dumping it in with some bleach and nickel nitrate/acetate: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo0612574. Theoretically this should yield the aldehyde if the nickel oxidant were instead isolated and the reaction done under anhydrous conditions.
Polly Dubberhood - Thu, 04 May 2017 18:42:57 EST ID:hBAZGxou No.78647 Ignore Report Quick Reply
i don't think you need any metals actually, just Oxone ( http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040402014000842 ) and acetonitrile ( https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=11137&page=2 )
Martin Dicklecocke - Sun, 14 May 2017 10:17:15 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78651 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Has anyone tried the dithionite reduction of piperinic acid? The source OP cited only has info on reducing acids with aliphatic side chains and I'm thinking that conjugation with the aromatic ring might cause the beta-gamma unsaturated acid to re-arrange to the gamma-delta or otherwise muck something up

unexplored waters by Frederick Blillyfoot - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:42:58 EST ID:UoTssc8h No.78641 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Pretty much any phenol without other more lablie reactive sites can be converted to an allylbenzene (like safrole) via condensation with allyl halide and subsequent aromatic Claisen rearrangement of the allyl phenol ether. From there it's known chemistry to get to an amphetamine derivative. pic related is delta-tocopherol, a form of vitamin E, and it's resulting amphetmaine derivative, which is strikingly similar to the 2C-x's and DOx's. There are literally thousands of easily obtainable phenol-derivatives out there with possibly psychoactive derivative amphetamines. Why has there not been more exploration into this chemical space?

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