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What's with my DXM trips lately? by Esther Pocklebene - Wed, 16 May 2018 18:46:59 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361584 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I'll give you the short version first:

No visuals, lots of blackouts, and they feel a lot shorter. I used to get crazy visuals, over time (years) they got less intense but then a few months ago they just stopped altogether. And no matter how I dose I seem to be blacking out a lot more, even on dosages like 600mg. I feel a lot more sluggish, physically and mentally, and instead of getting lost in flights of thought I'm just blacking out or not thinking much at all.

Been taking gels and RoboCough, same results either way. I took a break for a couple years then came back to it. I feel like I must be doing something wrong, I can't remember what I used to potentiate with. DPH and something else, ranitidine maybe?

That's the short and skinny of it. Here's a ramble if you're willing to read:

What I remember doing usually was taking a couple potentiators, waiting 30 minutes, then taking my dose. Back in the day I took gels, pure, or Delsym, though I don't think I potentiated with Delsym. During the comeup I'd watch a movie or a show, or play a game, Zelda or something familiar. I'd start feeling that head pressure on the comeup, and quite uncomfortable for a bit before crossing a sort of threshold in terms of the body load, after which point I'd feel somewhat energized, at least for some of the peak (if it was 3rd plat I would eventually get more stationary). Flights of fancy would carry my thoughts away; I'd be doing something in a game and something would draw my attention and I would get lost in a tangential thought, it was so much fun letting my mind just wander off then coming back to reality, seeing where I'd left off in my game and going "huh, so that's what I was doing", was kinda funny to be honest. My vision would get heavily distorted, everything would be slightly warped, colors more vivid, surfaces covered in odd textures like fur or skin or rippling water. Music was entrancing. Time really felt like it was going a lot slower, like there was so much happening in the span of a few hours.

And now it's all gone. I dose, I feel like shit, vomit or come close to it, feel the most awful robo itch (I never used to get robo itch) and then the trip is gone before I know it. I remember snippets of dicking around in Wind Waker, no visuals, music is boring. What's the deal? It doesn't seem to be an issue with physical tolerance, but a lot has changed in my life and I wonder what, if any of it, could have affected my trips. I've moved a couple times, I went through periods of intense stress and things are finally getting easier, been on a few different medications since (Seroquel, Wellbutrin, gabapentin, currently only taking Klonopin which I've been taking for many years now), quite smoking cigs and drinking, injured my back and recovered, developed a magnesium deficiency but magnesium citrate seems to be managing that. I'm getting a bunch of blood tests in case some disease is causing the magnesium deficiency, but magnesium deficiency it pretty common, I have a very healthy diet now so I'm concerned how I could have any vitamin or mineral deficiency. Oh and I did a fuckton of MXE for a couple years and wasn't doing DXM as much during that time.

Frankly, I'm lost. I dunno if I could have some kind of bizarre, permanent dis tolerance, or if my body chemistry has just changed too much over the years, or if the periods of psychological stress have altered my ability to appreciate a trip. I know magnesium plays some significant role at NMDA receptors, but I don't know how that would contribute to shitty trips full of blackouts. I've read a lot on various forums that magnesium + DXM is recommended, if only because you'll tend to sweat a lot of magnesium out during the trip and need to replenish it.

Last bit: I've been taking tolerance breaks. Some a few weeks, others months, and in one case 2 years or so of total sobriety. I don't have the free time or inclination to be dexxing every week or two like I did when I was younger.

Anyway, that's my ramble. Suggestions/recommendations are welcome. Anything to get me having a decent trip. I'm about to say fuck it and just buy some 3-MeO-PCP or 3-MeO-PCE but that's kind of a hassle and DXM has always been a unique, special thing to me.
Martin Chamblehadge - Wed, 16 May 2018 21:52:48 EST ID:MVqrqEgC No.361586 Ignore Report Quick Reply

It's called tolerance.

Eliza Blagglemeck - Wed, 16 May 2018 22:34:34 EST ID:8NXI+2FV No.361587 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Honestly, the Klonopin could be the issue. I haven't taken it in a long time, but back when I used it Klonopin made me black out more than any other drug. Benzos can also significantly decrease visuals.

As far as tolerance goes, it's pretty much common knowledge in the dex community that once you develop a tolerance to DXM it's pretty much there for life. It doesn't matter if you wait two or three years for it to go down.
Alice Sengershaw - Wed, 16 May 2018 22:41:37 EST ID:ztdupcg2 No.361588 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>it's pretty much common knowledge in the dex community that once you develop a tolerance to DXM it's pretty much there for life

Yeah, and like much "common knowledge" it's non-factual.

Some people might be unlucky, but my tolerance was significantly reduced if not at baseline after a few years break and it had gotten pretty sizeable (70kg, able to take 1500mg at a party and still talk to people).
Edward Genningcocke - Thu, 17 May 2018 00:10:15 EST ID:RQNgzYsT No.361589 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>periods of psychological stress have altered my ability to appreciate a trip
I think something similar happened to me as well. Losing my ability to trip coincided almost exactly with the appearance of new stressors. It's not uncommon for stress to cause one to have less interest in abstract thought and engage less actively with their imagination, and I can see how this could negatively influence trips. If you know yourself well enough, you might be able to compare and contrast how you think now vs then and form a conclusion for yourself.

I do wonder if any of those medications have anything to do with it, though, especially the benzos. Alcoholism has made me, personally, very sensitive to DXM's more stim-like side effects, which can easily derail a trip. But you've been taking them for years with no ill effects?

How many times have you dosed since this started happening? Are you sure it's entirely consistent? It isn't at all weird for DXM to "misfire" every once in awhile, as long as it's not every time. Also, have you combined DXM with anything recently that you had not in the past?
Edward Genningcocke - Thu, 17 May 2018 00:25:22 EST ID:RQNgzYsT No.361590 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Also it's pretty easy to get nostalgia goggles after long periods of abstinence and idealize the good times while conveniently forgetting the times when taking DXM was a seriously nasty experience. You could even just be outgrowing it.
Basil Draddlemag - Thu, 17 May 2018 00:45:37 EST ID:0eqlp4r3 No.361592 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>conveniently forgetting the times when taking DXM was a seriously nasty experience

Oh, how is it nasty?
Jenny Fellerbury - Thu, 17 May 2018 02:10:07 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361593 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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This problem didn't arise until *after* being sober for two years.

Klonopin wasn't an issue for years of dexxing. Why would it suddenly be a problem. I'm at a lower dose than I used to be. Explain how your "common knowledge" lifelong tolerance works or it's bs.

Likewise, in the past I would only need a month or two off and my tolerance would be back to nothing. Same applied for MXE.

The stress has changed my personality quite a bit, I never imagined that "stress", such a vague thing when I was younger, would have such marked psychological and physiological effects. For context I was in a serious car accident, I sustained no injuries but my wife was in the passenger's seat and was badly injured. Those two years of sobriety were spent taking care of her while she recovered, as well as handling the lawsuit with the fucking nutjob who caused the accident (I did eventually get a meager settlement). I'm different now. I used to be an arrogant prick, somewhat carefree, very outgoing, but I've done a 180 since: introverted, avoidant, oftentimes very anxious. I can no longer enjoy psys. It's not that I'll have a "bad trip" per se, but my last couple trips on 2C-E and 2C-C were lacking in euphoria and my mind was going to uncomfortable places. DXM is another story though, it's somewhat psychedelic, but my problem here is that a trip will fly by uneventfully, and I'll just feel bored and dull.

Yes I've been taking the Klonopin for years and it hasn't affected my trips, I doubt it's a factor unless my body's response to it has significantly changed. Your point about alcohol is interesting, I was a really heavy drinker for a few years, though I drank less as I did DXM more (eventually one replaced the other). I wonder if having been booze free for so long could have altered... something. Alcohol does mess with GABA, which in turn messes with glutamate, and it also could have affected how my liver handled other drugs. And yes, this is consistent since I started back up a few months ago, I've messed around with dosages and haven't had much luck, I've had DXM "misfire" on me but this is way too consistent.

Also, a few months ago, I mixed DXM with 2C-E, a combo I'd done a few times in the past, yet this time I had an awful trip and full blown serotonin syndrome? No idea why. I gave myself a couple months to recover before trying DXM again but it's the same as it was shortly before than episode, dull. Thanks for the reply, and for taking a serious interest.

I've considered this, but I've also heard so many people talk about how they continue to dex for years and years, many taking it weekly or multiple times a week and still enjoying it. I don't want to do it that often, I can't these days, and I don't expect a DXM trip to blow me away like it used to, but a decent, solid trip every now and then would be nice.
Frederick Bimmlebury - Thu, 17 May 2018 05:35:50 EST ID:cNZuRzFD No.361595 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>I dose, I feel like shit, vomit or come close to it, feel the most awful robo itch (I never used to get robo itch) and then the trip is gone before I know it

sounds like perfectly usual dxm "trip"
Martin Chamblehadge - Thu, 17 May 2018 12:11:46 EST ID:MVqrqEgC No.361605 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Everyone feels their tolerance is back to baseline after a few years or months of abstinence. But the truth of the matter is that only lasts or the first couple of trips upon your return to /dis/.

The truth of the matter is within a few trips tolerance returns just as strong as before.

>please tell how benzo's are fucking up my trip.

>it couldn't possibly be I've taken them before and they never altered my trip.

You need to get familiar with your neurology and the psychiatric effects of the drugs you take. There's a reason doctors/psychiatrists/psychologists will fill you up with benzo's if they find you tripping and need to get your mind under control.

Benzo's will drastically alter a trip. Making visuals disappear, calming you down, and at times utterly aborting the trip your having to make you an easier patient to deal with as opposed to having a freaked out individual who neither listens nor responds coherently while tripping absolute balls.
Martin Chamblehadge - Thu, 17 May 2018 12:25:38 EST ID:MVqrqEgC No.361607 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Don't wanna believe perma tolerance exists then wtf you doing here asking or advice. You get advice that doesn't seem to suit your worldview and you utterly reject it as impossible or wrong because

>mug drugs man. That couldn't possibly be true.

>you guys don't know what your talking about.

>plz help other dissonant and tell me what I want to hear.

We're all telling you how it is from personal experience which is the best you will find if you are looking for answers at 420chan.

Yes it's anecdotal evidence. Yes 75% or more of dissonauts will agree.

No we can't prove it to you with scientific studies as there are none in regards to this issue.

Your better off asking that retarded dare warrior to explain this shit to you.

He'd prob say

>of course I know why you can't trip as hard as before wen though your taking similar amounts of drugs an you abstained for years.

>it's utterly simple and ovbious that your previous abuse caused holes in your brain an now your utterly retarded mind cannot give you the kind of trip you want because you have destroyed all the "trippy" neurons in your brain.

>See this is why you should never do these drugs. Just go do alcohol and weed an cigarettes. They is good for you'z bros they don't retard your mind. They only kill you slowly.
Ernest Fucklehetch - Thu, 17 May 2018 13:13:38 EST ID:h6Wnkt/7 No.361610 Ignore Report Quick Reply
> Explain how your "common knowledge" lifelong tolerance works or it's bs.
How it works? No idea. I think it probably has something to do with this though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_potentiation#Properties – but I'm no neuropharmacologist. That's just a guess based on some minimal Googling about NMDA receptors. There's also a running thing about Calcium ion channels and resting vs. action potential, but I don't really get that part either.

But talk to (almost) any long time /dis/ user and they will tell you the same thing. I don't know if it's literally life long, but breaks of 3-6 months don't seem do anything. I've never gone longer than that myself, but I've heard plenty of stories of people taking a year or 2 off and still coming back with heavy tolerance, albeit slightly diminished. There's one old tripfag who claims to have never built tolerance no matter how much they /dis/sed and they chalk up tolerance to a psychological phenomenon, but I chalk them up as mildly enzyme deficient (hey buddy). You just said yourself you took 2 years off and

> Likewise, in the past I would only need a month or two off and my tolerance would be back to nothing. Same applied for MXE.
This is also common, especially with ACHAs. It's what I call the "first day back" effect. The first few doses after a long break seem really potent. Everything it used to be. But after a day or two tolerance goes right back to where it was. It should be noted though that DXM tolerance and ACHA tolerance are connected, but aren't completely parallel. I think DXM tolerance is worse and lasts even longer. Also DXM abuse will raise ACHA tolerance more than ACHA abuse will raise DXM tolerance (that I think has to do with receptor sluttiness).

> Benzo's will drastically alter a trip. Making visuals disappear, calming you down, and at times utterly aborting the trip your having to make you an easier patient to deal with as opposed to having a freaked out individual who neither listens nor responds coherently while tripping absolute balls.
This bullshit gets passed around so often. Benzos are used for aborting /psy/ trips. They don't affect /dis/ at all. Sure if someone is being insane on /dis/ and needs to be tranqed they'll use a benzo, but it doesn't do jack to the trip. Also with /psy/ benzos don't affect visuals. It's entirely about the mental state of the person tripping, their fear of whatever's happening, their memory as the experience is encoded, and their perception of time as the trip comes to an end. It'll bring the deepspace headtrip down as the user gives less and less of a fuck about tripping through the cosmos, but it's not gonna stop the visuals. As for /dis/, jesus christ is this completely not true. You know what happens if you feed benzos to someone who's too gone on /dis/? They black the fuck out for even longer. They do it in hospitals so they don't have to deal with you, not because it actually helps anything.

And look, personal reactions and all, but everyone I know who's prescribed low dose benzos and has been taking them for a long time has attested that at their regular maintenance dose, or with a very small pre-load dose for anxiety doesn't even change the outcome of a /psy/ trip, let alone /dis/. I've been on and off Klonopin and Valium for years and it's never made one fuck of a difference for me. Sure you pop a bar mid-trip you're not gonna give two shits whether or not you meet god, but that doesn't mean it'll shut anything off except your memory.
Edward Genningcocke - Thu, 17 May 2018 13:41:15 EST ID:RQNgzYsT No.361612 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This could be a long shot, but have you tried tripping with other people? Sometimes doing dissos with others can create a sort of gestalt consciousness vibe that greatly alters the usual tone of things, and if the effects are any different from your normal dissatisfaction it could point to psychological issues over strictly physiological ones.
Jenny Fellerbury - Thu, 17 May 2018 15:14:59 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361616 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I really just wanted some general advice, not to listen to google scientists debate with each other. I actually have a comprehensive background in neurochem and that's precisely why I avoid getting technical in my posts, it's too easy for laymen to get caught up in some particular detail, try to squeeze it in with their beloved synaptic model, and before you know it we're making sweeping generalizations about mechanisms of action and treating people like they have standard-issue brains, while simultaneously ignoring real data that conflicts with our assertions. I know what it's like because I've done it before myself, it's part of learning. But let's leave that out of a thread where a guy is asking for general advice/suggestions and would be delighted to hear anything anecdotal because he can figure out the science of it for himself. You'd be surprised how well anecdotal evidence can compliment a body of scientific literature, it really helps put things into perspective and gets you thinking about it in sensible, applicable ways.

Funny hearing "Gestalt consciousness" (a sci fi term) in the same sentence addressing psychology (where Gestalt therapy is a very real but unrelated psychotherapy technique). I know what you mean though. I used to mostly trip with my wife, occasionally other friends. Honestly she and I spent so long doing various dissociatives together it's surreal having a sober relationship. I'm not complaining, being functional certainly has its benefits, but it is a change and you have a good point that it could be a factor with me just tripping alone now. She's got no interest in tripping now though. She gets migraines all the time now and would rather stick to her medical marijuana and kratom* since that's been doing wonders for her pain and mood, and we are both reluctant to throw a wrench into that for the sake of a random trip just to make me feel better. Your post has given me something to think about. Folks here always talk about changing the setting, doing new things while tripping, I tried that, but I never really considered the importance of tripping with other people.

*Google scientists, look up studies of opioid receptor agonists as a potential treatment for traumatic brain injury. Interesting stuff, and a shame we can't research it more cause bluh bluh opioid epidemic bluh.
Nathaniel Crommlegold - Thu, 17 May 2018 17:18:03 EST ID:5MSM4AZg No.361625 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I hit my tolerance after something like 15 trips. It was my fault because I was potentiating.
I waited a year, and its back. Just take care of your brain and body, then wait. Liver pills, lifting, meditation.
Weirdly enough I think it was stopping regular dosing is what done it too.
My friend and I lost the magic at the same time, we were dosing together. Antiphase, probably.
Albert Clayson - Fri, 18 May 2018 05:51:29 EST ID:IChvROn8 No.361644 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>interesting stuff
Ebenezer Caddleridge - Fri, 18 May 2018 20:15:56 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361671 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I'm gonna dex again. I decided I'll go with a lower dose than I normally would, ~450mg instead of 600 to 900 mg. Back in the day 900 was a solid 3rd plat for me with periods of high functioning. Coming back to it after a break 900 was way too much, but 600 also might have been a lot. It's possible that my liver function has declined somewhat over the years, either because of DXM or the other psychiatric medications I was taking, and impaired liver function means slower drug clearance, dosages could be as much as 50% more potent. I have other reasons to believe my liver function may have declined but it's mostly a guess. I also just figure if blackouts are my issue, the next logical step to take is to lower the dose. Worst that could happen is nothing changes and I have another dull trip, or I just don't trip.

I pre-dosed with a couple swigs of Nyquil, specifically for the doxylamine in it. I used to have a swig of Nyquil before bed on many nights and the doxylamine had a calming, anxiolytic effect that persisted through most of the next day. There's also potential for the doxylamine to enhance my visuals similar to how DPH would (though this is a low dose). I've also asked my wife to try to interact with me more while I'm tripping. As much as we can all go on about plausible synaptic activity that would be the direct effect of a drug, we don't give the limbic system any credit in these discussions. Socializing can completely shift our cognition on the spot, there's a lot of potential there to completely change a trip.

I think dosing regularly is the biggest contributor to building tolerance. It fits well with the LTP model. What I can't say for sure is what, if anything, actually helps reduce tolerance other than time. There are just so many factors involved, we're talking neuronal changes, liver enzymes, and the epigenetics that plays into both.

In der Tat?
Eugene Settingfidging - Fri, 18 May 2018 21:11:20 EST ID:RQNgzYsT No.361672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Good luck
Ebenezer Caddleridge - Sat, 19 May 2018 00:53:47 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361674 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Thank you. This is alright. I pre-dosed with a couple swigs of Nyquil and drank one and a half RoboCough. I drank the first full bottle in the span of twenty minutes, and then drank a half bottle left over from a previous trip, but I didn't start drinking that until a few hours in. So it was 30mg from Nyquil, 450mg from RoboCough, and another 225mg later. I feel alright and had an okay time, no blackouts, but no visuals either, but the headspace is nice. Really miss the visuals though.
Graham Piblingchune - Sat, 19 May 2018 17:23:02 EST ID:VrSbc2FM No.361682 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Hi, have you thought about using substances with an "anti-dissociative" profile? There are also neurotrophic factors that could could produce a decrease in tolerance (this is very anecdotal and most likely wrong). It seems that certain nootropics have a way of, at least I've heard on here, interfering with a trip. Those would be where I'd start if I was looking to get a handle on the dissociative experience
Frederick Garringman - Sat, 19 May 2018 22:06:36 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361685 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Okay, sober now. Slept 11 hours. Not a bad trip, not an amazing one either. Again, no visuals, but I think aiming for a lower initial dose helped and my wife and I watched TNG and talked a lot which likely contributed to a shift in attentional focus, giving the trip a different feel compared to being alone. I don't think the extra half-bottle of RoboCough made much of a difference, that was just me being stupid while high, thinking I could get more out of it. Though I've heard plenty of people talk about how they break up their doses and this somehow produces more intense trips (through some kind of liver-mediated mode of action).

I take everything I hear about nootropics with heaps of salt. I know I said I avoid getting technical in my posts, but the nootrophic community has its head so far up its ass I think I should pick this apart real quick.

A lot of talk about nootropics focuses on brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and neurogensis. The problem with these discussions is the assumption always seems to be that the brain is some sort of homogeneous mush and more brain cells is always better. However, from what we've studied, BDNF-induced neurogenesis appears to only occur in very specific parts of the brain, arguably parts that you wouldn't want to be bigger and better. The amygdala is associated with fear and aggression responses, and learning as mediated by the fear response. It's the subject of some of the most controversial studies on the neurology of fear and aggression (and supposedly political stances) but one thing is clear: a bigger amygdala tends to mean heightened aggression and fear responses. There are other sites that are also affected by BDNF but I don't remember them off the top of my head. My point is a bunch of google scientists have convinced themselves that by taking some pills they found on the internet, they will have the biggest, smartest brains and be able to win every internet argument they get into. Placebo-controlled studies don't hold up to their claims. The community also has a habit of reinforcing its own claims by shunning anyone who did not get the (likely placebo) effects that are part of the dogma.

Now I'm not dismissing all nootropics as useless snake oil. Many are very worthy of serious research. It's the community and the claims they make that people need to be cautious and skeptical of. As to claims of decreases in tolerance to various drugs, this could very well be a possibility. If modafinil eliminates opioid seeking behavior in rats, and anecdotally eliminates opioid withdrawal symptoms in humans, I'm willing to keep an open mind about random-ass substances throwing a wrench into any addiction-tolerance paradigm out there, especially anything that messes with glutamate.

Could you elaborate on these "anti-dissociative" substances. Do you mean NMDAR agonists (as opposed to antagonists, which are considered dissociatives)? Are there any specific compounds that might be of interest.
Samuel Bramblenirk - Sun, 20 May 2018 14:39:01 EST ID:9PvydQ9b No.361694 Ignore Report Quick Reply
okay mr. sleepy figure out the science of it for yourself now
Frederick Garringman - Sun, 20 May 2018 17:12:08 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361699 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Nice contribution. Bye.
Matilda Dartworth - Sun, 20 May 2018 17:55:50 EST ID:OUa6Ucp1 No.361701 Ignore Report Quick Reply
bye bye
Caroline Fandleshit - Mon, 21 May 2018 12:08:47 EST ID:CzWGBOSc No.361716 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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hi hi. So what you're talking about is getting the 'magic' back. The visuals the feelings and catharsis they're all just a part of that so maybe they have a common mechanism of action- you state that's LTP. Then if so what you want is to find a way to depotentiate the affected synapses. How you go about process is your undertaking, you have the background to do it.

Where I would start is at Noopept, because I've heard of it interfering. Try any agonists you can get your hands on, sure. The process might look like: get high on the dex, try to antagonize its effects. If it's absolutely effective, check the literature to see if it has depotentiating action. If it does take it for a couple months and see if the magic comes back.
Shitting Gapperpidge - Mon, 21 May 2018 13:17:19 EST ID:h6Wnkt/7 No.361717 Ignore Report Quick Reply
NMDA receptor agonists are rare, and largely unsafe. Many are liable to induce seizures. That's why there's no direct antidote for a /dis/ overdose and they treat it symptom by symptom. Stopping the effects completely is bad news. And I think even taking low doses of an agonist for an extended period of time could potentially be more damaging than helpful.

Perhaps some of the endogenous ones? Glycine is a common supplement. But I'm still not sure it would help unless the LTP/LTD theory holds up and you can retrain your brain backwards to where it used to be.
Charles Gecklesedge - Mon, 21 May 2018 14:37:17 EST ID:5wFmr6uS No.361720 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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omg what happened to your korok

Anyways glycine might work. My bet would be that it wouldn't be very noticeable whereas a seizure might end up being very refreshing! Another thing to consider is the response of the serotonergic system to DXM; the other place where the phrase "losing the magic" shows up a lot is when talking about MDMA and Mephedrone, which I think goes way beyond just losing the novelty.

Also who says I don't want a bulging amygdala? Actually I've considered the possibility of combining BDNF induced growth with specialized training and drug use to innervate hard to reach areas or develop new skills. If you induce neurogenesis btw won't the new neurons be drug naive?

So your treatment could be to use multiple overlapping methods
Shitting Gapperpidge - Mon, 21 May 2018 15:04:00 EST ID:h6Wnkt/7 No.361721 Ignore Report Quick Reply
> Another thing to consider is the response of the serotonergic system to DXM
I was going to actually going to bring this up before.
> Though I've heard plenty of people talk about how they break up their doses and this somehow produces more intense trips (through some kind of liver-mediated mode of action).
There's a reason that redosing potentiation helps people with mega-tolerance. Attacking your enzymes repeatedly gives you a higher DXMXO over time, and DXM itself has more serotonergic effects than DXO which is primarily dissociative. If you learn how to play the potentiation game well you can get visuals back, but it involves a lot of trial and error.

You went about it backwards with your recent trip. Instead of pre-loading --> main dose --> redose. You wanna preload --> preload again slightly higher than before --> main dose (I call it the kicker).

Next time try the Nyquil, then 225mg, then 450mg (or something thereabouts). You'll get very different results I assure you.
Shitting Gapperpidge - Mon, 21 May 2018 15:05:13 EST ID:h6Wnkt/7 No.361722 Ignore Report Quick Reply
God I hate that I always forget that that happens.
Oliver Drubbleshit - Mon, 21 May 2018 15:17:25 EST ID:CPDkTKSP No.361723 Ignore Report Quick Reply


I have been using DXM heavily for 8 years and have an absolutely stupid tolerance, but I can still have decent trips through slow-dosing.

My preferred method is a medium dose of polistirex (5oz. of Delsym usually) -> 1st plat dose of hbr -> 2nd or 3rd plat dose of hbr.
2 hours between each dose.
Phoebe Duffingdock - Mon, 21 May 2018 23:44:35 EST ID:h6Wnkt/7 No.361732 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Oh yeah. Delsym –> HBr is a huge advantage in that department.
Hannah Brammerfoot - Tue, 22 May 2018 18:18:50 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361746 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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You'd think after multiple years sober the whole LTP model falls apart. That really should be more than enough time for synapses to have undergone some degree of reversion, if only in response to the required changes for sober cognition over an extended period of time. Yes LTP can cause permanent changes in the brain, but it's hard to believe it'd be so absolute. And remember while LTP is widely studies, we have little hard data on it, especially in proportion to all the theoretical models.

Also just gonna add the only NMDAR agonist I know of off the top of my head is L-theanine. I'd be concerned about mixing NMDAR agonists and antagonists because of the neuromodulatory role of glutamate. It's sort of a one-way street kind of system, unlike the monoamines, for example, where you can take a serotonin agonist and antagonist because even if they hit the same site one just prevents the other from working, or lessens the effect.

>bulging amygdala
Not for me but if that's your ideal psychonaut superbrain then I won't stop you. Regarding the serotonin system, that's really where I'd think the root of the issue is. The types of hallucinations I tended to have were *somewhat* comparable to low dose psy hallucinations (particularly the 2Cs). It leads me to believe that such an extended tolerance break actually bit me in the ass by effectively resetting my P450 system, making the ratio of DXM to DXO much lower, as >>361721 points out. I actually went back and read an long exchange between Fallen, Fiend, Kerflap, and Cursive, about slow dosing and "infrasigma", and it hit me how important those ratios must be (I used to avoid fretting over it because trying to sort out P450 metabolism is kind of a nightmare so I just didn't worry about it). I was a pretty regular user years ago, dexxing once every week or two, sometimes multiple times a week, there's no telling how fucked up my liver enzymes must have been, and how much lingering metabolites there might have been with the regular use, that I was getting more DXM over DXO, and hence more serotonin activity, i.e. more psychedelic, visual trips.

See above but also yeah, it occurred to me I should try breaking up my doses like that. I had a decent trip predosing with a little Nyquil, then taking 450mg, THEN 225mg and that basically was a nice 2nd plat where I was moderately social and then the last dose pushed it into low 3rd. Obviously doing the 225mg last was dumb, I think next time I'd do what you suggest or close to it. I wonder about doing lots of smaller doses and then topping off with a larger dose. For example, 30-60mg every 30 minutes, for a couple hours, then 450mg all at once. That would theoretically push the DXM ratio up a good bit. Any experience with this particular pattern?

ikr? Liver metabolism is like my least favorite thing to sort out, I forget about it all the time.

See my above replies. Good suggestions but I will probably skip the Delsym as the last few times I tried it I had similar issues with blackouts. May revisit though.

Good posts, thanks guys. I love this board.
Hannah Brammerfoot - Tue, 22 May 2018 18:33:49 EST ID:3jnkNX30 No.361747 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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So without making a new thread I also just wanted to ask if anyone knew anything about magnesium or folate in relation to DXM. I get muscle spams, paresthesias, restless legs, and periodlic limb movements in sleep, sometimes so bad they wake me up. It gets worse a couple days after I dex. I noticed magnesium citrate helps ease the spasms, naturally this makes sense considering magnesium's role in the nervous system, but I was wondering if anyone had any solid info on how DXM and magnesium interact. A couple sites warn that taking DXM with magnesium can be dangerous, though they don't specify how, or even how much magnesium was taken. I wonder if I should be concerned if I'm taking the magnesium citrate hours before or hours after I dose.

Secondly, folate. Folate deficiency can cause spasms, paresthesias, etc. I never really thought about it and all my recent blood tests were normal, but folate levels can rise and plummet from day to day, it's not like fat soluble vitamins that get stored for a long time. I also found this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17488670 (full text here: http://www.haematologica.org/content/92/4/562.long) and wondered if DXM has a direct effect on folate levels (possibly because of some action on the liver or pancreas), or if this is just another matter of drug users having shitty diets. Apart from this I've read one random forum post where someone said something like "DXM is pretty hard on folate" with no elaboration. Anyone know anything about this?

Also lol Hong Kong has "registered substances abusers", wtf.

double post, nb.
Cedric Sumbleway - Wed, 23 May 2018 02:55:38 EST ID:h6Wnkt/7 No.361750 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Fiend is >>361721 And they would not encourage looking too deeply into the Infrasigma documents. Fallen's information about metabolism is the most important part. The rest can be summed up by the idea of build-up –> kicker dose.
> 30-60mg every 30 minutes, for a couple hours, then 450mg all at once.
This will work too. It doesn't work quite the same. It amounts to something similar to Delsym –> HBr. But it's not like redosing at low-plat doses. Bouncing up and down between DXM and DXO is part of what leads to the most potentiation but also leads to Sigma after a while. Regardless of what you do tread carefully. Don't start protracting your total dose by more than 3-4 hours to start. More than 6 and things start to get funkier and funkier.

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