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Civilization of the Month

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!PXhMv3keyc - Tue, 09 Jan 2018 16:21:24 EST 7moSACzs No.57339
File: 1515532884456.jpg -(3228964B / 3.08MB, 3480x2656) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Civilization of the Month
In preparation for going back to school (and to hopefully bolster some discussion on this nice but very slow board) I'm gonna try this thread format. Each month, assuming I don't get lazy and drop this, I'm gonna post a big thing about a civilization, culture, or political entity. I'm gonna try to avoid obvious topics like Egypt or Rome, and focus on stuff people may not have heard of as much. In an ideal world you guys will join in and discuss the peoples and cultures herein, suggest new topics, or correct me if and when I mess up.

That said, it seems fair to me to start with the beginning. This month's Civilization of the Month is Sumer.

"Sumer" as a name comes to us from their Akkadian neighbors/occasional rulers, who called them Shumer. The Sumerians called themselves "ùĝ saĝ gíg ga", meaning "The black-headed people", a name we learned from the cuneiform tablets they wrote on. Unfortunately, we do not actually know what "Shumer" means; when looking (or, more appropriately, glancing) into it, I pretty much just found academic flamewars.

The Sumerian people seem to have been in the area of modern day Iraq since at least 6500 BC, and continued to do their thing until the second millennium BC. Then they were conquered by the Amorites, who in turn were conquered by the Assyrians. However, their cultural impression was lasting, and Assyrian kings would continue to refer to themselves as "King of Sumer and Akkad" for centuries.

The earliest archaeological site we have for the area is called Tell el-'Oueli. A tell, from Arabic tal, meaning hill or mound, is a giant pile of trash from generations of people living on the same spot. This site consists of two thousand years of the Ubaid period (6500-4000 BC), and is characterized by the style of clay painted pottery, unwalled villages of mud brick houses, and tools (mainly sickles) made of clay usually, though occasionally stone or metal. During this time irrigated agriculture, use of the plow, and sailing were developed, and an egalitarian society became more stratified as a noble chieftain class developed as communities became much bigger than your standard village.

Eventually, pottery became produced more efficiently and trade flourished along the rivers of the Fertile Crescent, which led to the rise of the first cities. This period, named Uruk for the biggest one of the time, lasted from 4100 BC to 2900 BC. Uruk was created when two Ubaid villages grew into each other, and during this period became the most populated city in the world, surpassing 50k inhabitants. Cities during this period were centered around a large temple (two in Uruk's case, at the centers of the towns it grew from) and were ruled theocratically by priest-kings (called ensi). Slavery begins to see heavy use.

In 2900 BC we enter the early dynastic period (2900-2270 BC). Around the beginning of this time the wall around Uruk was built, spanning 9km. We see a split from the priest-king system to a relatively secular ruler (still claiming divine right to rule, as kings will), and a council of elder priests. In 2700 writing began to form out of pictographs, and things like clay tokens were used in accounting. At first, cities were separate entities that can't really project force terribly far. However, any towns around a big city were obviously going to have a hard time, and we actually see towns outright disappear as the cities absorb their populations. Around 2500 BC a king from the city of Lagash named Eannatum conquered the area we now think of as Sumer, creating one of the first empires. However, it fell apart after his death. Two centuries later a king named Lugal-zage-si did something similar, and reigned for fifteen years or so until the Akkadians conquered Sumer.

In 2270, the son of a cup-bearer for a Sumerian king (a social position of high standing and trust, I'll note) named Sargon rose to power, conquered Lugal-zage-di's realm, and led him to his hometown of Akkad in stocks. He went on to carve out an empire stretching nearly from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean. His empire would last until 2147, when a nomadic tribe called the Guti overran the place to a degree that the infrastructure couldn't handle. The empire collapsed, and minor city-states made their return.

From Lagash again rose a Sumerian king, Gudea, who enjoyed a small renaissance of sorts after he reconq…
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Martin Dashmotch - Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:11:59 EST stKj2uKJ No.57518 Reply
1536178319123.jpg -(32562B / 31.80KB, 629x638) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Seriously the greatest posts this board will ever know.
Shitting Fosslepedge - Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:00:03 EST /JUDCgXP No.57535 Reply
1538344803037.jpg -(49010B / 47.86KB, 468x295) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Very cool OP. Fellow History Major here too.


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- Fri, 04 Oct 2019 23:30:05 EST GZ9huB26 No.57843
File: 1570246205738.jpg -(4455963B / 4.25MB, 3500x2414) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. preamerica
Hello, i am a latin american, eager to about about his roots.

I came here to ask your for help, /his/ please, i need to find this book. (pic very related). I don`t know the name :(
mumbojumbo - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 23:33:01 EST GZ9huB26 No.57844 Reply
1570246381017.jpg -(140885B / 137.58KB, 600x719) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
another pic i found. Please if you have any info about the name of the book it would be awesome. :)

Powder Monkeys during the Age of Sail

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- Sat, 24 Jan 2015 19:26:07 EST cElAQBHK No.54670
File: 1422145567453.jpg -(971890B / 949.11KB, 1200x1334) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Powder Monkeys during the Age of Sail
A powder monkey manned naval artillery guns as a member of a warship's crew, primarily during the Age of Sail. His chief role was to ferry gunpowder from the powder magazine in the ship's hold to the artillery pieces. The function was fulfilled by boy seamen 12 to 14 years of age.

This is as much as our wikipedia-education tells us of history.

But, intuitively... you and I both know... these kids were orphan sex slaves for sailors on long voyages. Amiright or amiright?

Some sad shit.
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William Clipperfork - Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:09:22 EST b0Z6XbnQ No.56023 Reply

Is this thread made by a pedo hoping for wankbait or something? Fucking perverts.
Nigel Boblingworth - Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:57:25 EST ugvyAVrZ No.58035 Reply
1595674645533.jpg -(259295B / 253.22KB, 700x812) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Lydia Puffingville - Sat, 10 Oct 2020 05:03:09 EST MQrFoU+L No.58062 Reply
Crazy to think the first loads I ever busted are now old enough to handle artillery.

Imperialism general

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- Wed, 22 Jul 2020 14:15:51 EST 5jBNoNKF No.58033
File: 1595441751506.jpg -(574931B / 561.46KB, 1400x787) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Imperialism general
Why do humans want to colonize and dominate other peoples? Why did the British occupy and terrorize India, why didn't the US colonies descend on the Americas peacefully? Why did the Spaniards and Portuguese find america and mexico and want to take them over? yall ever wonder bout the motives of imperialism?
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Beatrice Grandhall - Wed, 23 Sep 2020 00:07:50 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58058 Reply
Just land I'm sure. The only real commodity
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Hugh Pullerstot - Mon, 05 Oct 2020 16:01:26 EST z71lLGSG No.58060 Reply

It's simple biology. We evolved competing both within our own group and with other groups about resources. We're just glorified apes motivated by simple, biological and subconscious drives. People that talk about what separates us from the animals are full of shit. The idea that the Enlightenment started a new era where humans focused on rationality and shed themselves of false beliefs is total BS. Imperialism is just an expression of fundamental human nature, it's got fuck all to do with ideology.
Martha Dartgold - Thu, 08 Oct 2020 23:42:30 EST 3UypTvG0 No.58061 Reply
Resources, land, necessity. Nowadays nobody should need to do this anymore.

When did weed actually start getting people high?

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- Fri, 07 Aug 2020 18:23:23 EST L1Xbz8++ No.58041
File: 1596839003609.jpg -(91721B / 89.57KB, 585x800) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. When did weed actually start getting people high?
When did weed actually become widespread like throughout and the East and was actually in a form it could get you high? I’ve been researching weed like hemp, cbd, hash, cooking it etc and interested in it.

I know in old forms they burned seeds and shit as incense but wouldn’t it have always been too weak to do anything? Or could they at least figure out how to breed it enough to get it at least to 1-5% thc where it would at least do something? Judging the 70s they just smoked the entire plant leaf, stems, seeds and all do it was probably really hard to get high off from but I’ve been smoking cbd hemp and that’s low thc and actually been giving me a buzz. But it looks like weed has been garbage up until the 90-00s.

In the Middle East they invented hash a Long long time ago so that would of been been when weed actually started getting people getting baked reliably right? And when they started trading it just going off on foot was when getting high first became widespread right? Or would hash still have been garbage back then because it wasn’t bred for thc and was low quality shitty plants? Or did that not matter because it was just pollen smashed off the plant?

I’m having an enthusiasm attack trying to find this out because I’ve been bored studying herbalism for awhile lol and keep finding early uses but it’s mostly like making clothes or burning seeds and shit. I think there was bhanga that was a hemp drink with milk that might’ve been it but no clue when actually using it for a buzz started spreading in the world.
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Reuben Craggleville - Mon, 10 Aug 2020 02:58:32 EST tghx1UFY No.58043 Reply
before the bible was written
literally an herb as ancient as all humanity

probably soon after we started making Fire tbh [pun intended]
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Simon Dartforth - Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:12:53 EST M4SSuHdm No.58044 Reply
IIRC, they've discovered weed residue in prehistoric caves.

Mind you, since this was wild weed, they would have had to chop up entire bushes of weed and thrown it all on a fire to hotbox a cave.
Beatrice Grandhall - Wed, 23 Sep 2020 00:06:52 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58057 Reply
I imagine there would have been some decently strong stuff in the wild for thousands of years, if it was all hemp garbage it would have taken until most likely a much more modern period to discover its use as a drug. Take cocaine for instance, they just chewed the leaves for thousands of years.
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Knight's Templar + CIA + the Pope + Switzerland = Assassin's Creed was onto something.

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- Tue, 28 Jul 2020 01:24:40 EST 3bqnOUsc No.58036
File: 1595913880382.jpg -(2133662B / 2.03MB, 672x9160) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Knight's Templar + CIA + the Pope + Switzerland = Assassin's Creed was onto something.
I stumbled across pic related on another board and it hasn't left my mind since.

What the Fuck, Mates, What if?
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Sidney Bonkindale - Wed, 26 Aug 2020 07:11:09 EST ILe5GuDp No.58047 Reply
>Switzerland was free of war for 500 years
Seems like those morons never heard of Napoleon.
Beatrice Grandhall - Tue, 22 Sep 2020 23:53:40 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58056 Reply
It would not matter at all?

Hey did you guys hear of this CIA LABS organization that's being started
>month later
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Esther Bardfield - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 06:35:19 EST Ns2grdgE No.58059 Reply
>letter juggling proves something
Yeah, no.

/his/ pics

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!W48S2eY4nU - Mon, 15 Jun 2020 16:32:03 EST MS2ff5UW No.57995
File: 1592253123416.jpg -(2122435B / 2.02MB, 2000x1336) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. /his/ pics
This thread is for posting /his/ related images that are Cool and Good

Post a pic, maybe a little blurb about what it is, maybe tell other people how cool and good their pics are.

These are Nubian pyramids in modern-day Sudan. The Nubians (or Kushites) had a contentious history with their Egyptian neighbors to the north, existing as enemies, vassals and for a brief time, rulers of Egypt. Towards the end of the Egyptian era, the Nubians felt that Egypt had fallen from its former glory and considered themselves the arbiters of the old, proper ways.

The Kushites had their own heiroglyphic language which to date remains undeciphered.
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charlemagne !W48S2eY4nU - Fri, 11 Sep 2020 22:05:16 EST MS2ff5UW No.58052 Reply
1599876316767.jpg -(1060704B / 1.01MB, 2560x1530) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
shid, my dumb ass actually went back to college. Maybe I can take some time out to keep that thing going. I'm surprised it hasn't 404'd yet.

What would you want to read about?
Matilda Dendlewell - Mon, 21 Sep 2020 19:37:44 EST PqIVyg6p No.58055 Reply

post about some civilizations in like subsaharan africa maybe, i know nothing about the history of that region prior to colonization


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- Sun, 28 Jun 2020 20:30:45 EST SNXdGotQ No.58007
File: 1593390645675.jpg -(65247B / 63.72KB, 721x420) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. NYT
I remember reading a while ago that the New York Times was one of the earliest national newspapers to begin publishing pieces promoting the "Lost Cause" narrative of the post-Civil War era in the U.S.
Is there any real truth to this? Or were they mostly the same as other papers of their time and era?

I tried to search this subject but there are an insurmountable number of modern results regarding "New York Times" and "Confederacy"
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Fanny Dribberstotch - Sun, 19 Jul 2020 18:54:30 EST IlyKIasb No.58030 Reply
You'd have to go through every single national newspaper from the era, some of which aren't in publication anymore and some haven't even been digitized yet.
Nicholas Wiggleshaw - Mon, 20 Jul 2020 02:34:43 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58032 Reply
Could pick a few at random, might get lucky

Takes me all of five minutes to read what I care of the modern paper, titles help
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Fucking Cillynit - Thu, 27 Aug 2020 20:46:54 EST Bow1NGW+ No.58048 Reply
They have pretty good archives, here's an article from 1861

As a general thing, the rank and file of the Democratic Party have come up nobly to the support of the Government in its contest with rebellion. Thousands upon thousands of them have rallied to the defence of the country, and are now in the field to defend the Constitution and the Union against their deadly foes. From the moment the first blow was struck, -- when the first shot was fired at Fort Sumter, -- they have done everything in their power to sustain the honor of the Stars and Stripes, and to protect the institutions and the Government of the country. In our Legislature last Winter, the great body of the Democratic members threw aside all party considerations, and voted freely men and money to suppress the rebellion. And nothing did more to startle the rebels and to check their progress than this noble and resolute unanimity among men of all parties in the Empire State, and especially in this City, in favor of a vigorous and effective prosecution of the war against rebellion.
There were but very few exceptions to this general action of the Democrats in the Legislature. But there were six men in the State Assembly who, after the attack on Fort Sumter, after the President had appealed to the honor and patriotism of the country to rally in support of the Government, voted AGAINST the appropriation of a single dollar for defending the country and preserving the Union! And four of these men have been nominated for reelection in this City.



How do we save the civilians in Mexico?

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- Tue, 10 Mar 2020 03:44:26 EST 6b8YaE/p No.57948
File: 1583826266680.jpg -(84328B / 82.35KB, 400x333) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. How do we save the civilians in Mexico?
How do we end the cartel-violence and corruption in Mexico?
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Walter Semmleshaw - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:31:43 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58026 Reply
A lot more policing, a solid stance against them at the civilian level. If those people weren't allowed to flourish they would make themselves more obvious in their crimes.

I heard an interesting story from a guy who said the cartel actually helped his town. He said his mom lived out in the boonies in Mexico and the indians would just come and threaten locals, steal all their shit and take over the town. They would threaten to kill everyone until the government paid them so the gov't pretends to pay these indians to work the land and grow crops. The indians leave, the guy's mom is robbed, and in a few years they do the same shit.

The cartel actually hangs these guys guts-out as a warning outside of town when they start fucking around in an area and it scares them off, problem solved. They also do the same to thieves and undesirables which works far better than a gov't that didn't even give you a police system.

The corruption in the Mexican gov't is really what is allowing the cartel to thrive IMO, not to mention they take bribes from them and anyone from what I've heard but I'm just some white guy
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Cyril Turveywell - Wed, 15 Jul 2020 05:13:42 EST 9lS7grI7 No.58028 Reply
Wut ??

can you actually write a complete sentence

Regaurding people who directly participated in the Holocaust

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- Thu, 02 Apr 2020 03:27:50 EST kj/KR5dL No.57956
File: 1585812470886.png -(212577B / 207.59KB, 807x935) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Regaurding people who directly participated in the Holocaust
Quick disclaimer: This thread is not intended to give the people who murdered people in the Holocaust a free-pass or to get you to perceive them in a more gentle manner. Rather it is to better understand how their psychology and emotional well being was effected by committing such terrible murders, which in turn gives us valuable insight into the human condition.

So obviously a lot of the people who murdered Jews, gypsies, gays, socialists, Polaks, the retarded, the enthusiastic, the mentally ill, and Djiboutins in WW2 were sociopaths or psychopaths. This thread does not concern these people. Rather, this thread is concerned with how the neurotypicals who participated in the Holocaust dealt with the fact that they were straight up murdering people. I'm specially focusing on the "Holocaust by bullets". How did normies in the einsatzgruppen feel about the fact they were murdering innocent people? How scarring was it for them? How many of them became alcoholics or committed suicide after the war?
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Walter Semmleshaw - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:35:51 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58027 Reply
A reward system
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Internet history thread. What happened to Faye Kane?

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- Sat, 30 May 2020 13:59:34 EST Ov0/nFfo No.57988
File: 1590861574572.jpg -(97246B / 94.97KB, 640x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Internet history thread. What happened to Faye Kane?
What happened to Faye Kane? the "enthusiastic lady who hangs out naked in the woods, masturbates all day"?

Ever hear of Faye Kane? the "enthusiastic lady who hangs out naked in the woods, masturbates all day" it was an early 2000s internet thing, apparently, she was/is a genius that decided to cut all ties with society and live in the woods where she'd hoard pc parts. here's a rabbit hole for you guys.

Her entry on a website called smashwords, you can find some other links in the bottom of the post, some are accessible with the way back machine but I was unable to open her actual blog with it, I keep getting stuck at the screen that warns you that you're about to enter an 18+ blog, and most links seem to load forever: www.smashwords.com/profile/view/FayeKane
Jarvis Crittingwick - Sat, 30 May 2020 14:00:58 EST Ov0/nFfo No.57989 Reply
1590861658572.jpg -(201136B / 196.42KB, 750x585) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
She seems to be... interested in sex, to say the least, from her smashwords article. This is confirmed, apparently she was (sexualy?) abused by her stepfather, later raped, but enjoyed it, and sought to be raped again. Disturbing, apparently there was more on her defunct blog, but I still haven't been able to access it. Also, she apparently has/had a myspace, according to the smashwords, as well as had a now inaccessible book about her rape on smashwords. Any ideas? I would like the tape.

As I was looking for her myspace, I found a kiwifarms post from 2016 with lots of valuable information. As much as I normally dislike kiwifarms, they were actually very useful. Next update will be when I delph through this plethora of content, and contact the OP of that forum, as they still may be active.

Here's what I've found so far. Might contain NSFW stuff, look at your own risk

Very recent circlejerk post talking about it: https://www.circlejerk.com/r/tipofmytongue/comments/fr9ybr/tomtwebsite_bizarre_sexuallyexplicit_blog_run_by/

circlejerk post on r/WTF from 8 years ago: https://www.circlejerk.com/r/WTF/comments/mnwjt/its_faye_kane_the_enthusiastic_lady_who_hangs_out/

circlejerk post on r/InternetLegends from 6 years ago here Kane herself pops up in the comments: https://www.circlejerk.com/r/InternetLegends/comments/1s8gbn/the_story_of_fay_kane_the_enthusiastic_woman_who/

Her supposedly circlejerk account, It's 10 years old so we can be pretty sure that it's her: https://www.circlejerk.com/user/FayeKane/
Clara Buzzlewet - Sat, 27 Jun 2020 06:39:21 EST IlyKIasb No.58006 Reply
I'm not really buying the Kiwifarms theory that she's some random old lady. The grammar and posting style of the "hostile user" the Kiwifarms sect baited out doesn't match the grammar and posting style of past Faye Kane posts you can find online. It's possible they ended up pissing off the old lady they believed was Faye Kane, but I'm skeptical that that old lady, given the significant difference in grammar and writing style compared to the archived blog, Smashwords article, and past posts on circlejerk, is the real Faye Kane. Unless she got hit by a brick or developed early dementia or something. Compare and contrast.

>Everbody here is Extra-ordinary Mike , I have reviewed your comments , and you appear to be the exception ,
you are intelligent , and coherent , the reason for my post was , to say if anyone did look in to who Kathy Collins really was , Most intelligent NON enthusiastic, intelligent persons , would / should have figured it out . And one poster did , when he said "hay common guys this old lady play farm land , on face book and is a grandmother , nothing like faye kane " but that post is gone now . This concludes my posting on the form , I have a life , home , and family to tend too .


>My real first name IS "Faith" (which I hate), and on another site 10 years ago, I used "Faye Kname" because it sounds very close to my real name and I thought that was funny. I changed it to "Kane" to shut up several old ladies who said "the shameful girl doesn't even have the courage to sign her real name!" even though everyone else on the net (including them) uses a pseudonym. All this is in my blog FAQ.

>Unfortunately, "Faye Kane" is even closer to my real name, which is distressing because stalkers send me ugly messages and if they knew who I am, the first thing they'd do is message all my RL friends and ex-coworkers telling them what I haven't told: that their shy, promising, attractive, extremely intelligent nuclear engineer turned into a slutty, crazy, unemployed homeless person with Hep C from trying heroin who lives in a techno-tent-cave in the woods next to the interstate and steals electricity by hacking the 250V power main.

>But it's too late to change, too late to pay, no time to stay the same, too young to leave.

These don't sound like the same people.
Walter Semmleshaw - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:26:17 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58025 Reply
Sounds like it was faked. Probably just someone who wanted to write about being a whore in the woods with a computer
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jolly african-americans

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- Thu, 26 Mar 2020 06:22:25 EST t57zTvmY No.57955
File: 1585218145423.gif -(1712764B / 1.63MB, 540x293) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. jolly african-americans
If Western Europe is Celtic-Roman-Germanic, what would Eastern Europe be? Greek-Slav-Turkic? were Uralic people (Finns, Hungarians, Estonians) any significant part of EE heritage?
Phyllis Pamblewater - Sat, 06 Jun 2020 13:07:10 EST LmWTdWzC No.57991 Reply
East Europe is slavo-baltic
Greeks are south Europe
Walter Semmleshaw - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:23:00 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58024 Reply
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plausible ww2 alternative history

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- Thu, 30 Apr 2020 12:28:05 EST fn54Ftub No.57970
File: 1588264085603.jpg -(42847B / 41.84KB, 500x359) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. plausible ww2 alternative history
Just finished binging s3 of Man in the High Castle. The premise is that japan and germany occupy the usa following its destruction its defeat in the 1940's. Seems pretty implausible to me as neither Germany or Japan really was that powerful. Philip K. Dick is a great author though and they did a good job on the series and ultimately he was proposing that the Americans could be just as fascistic given the circumstances and they were in no means unique. What would be a more realistic alternative ww2 history? Which is your favourite?
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Clara Buzzlewet - Sat, 27 Jun 2020 01:46:40 EST IlyKIasb No.58004 Reply
If Germany declared war on the Soviet Union before securing the Romanian oil fields they would have simply run out of fuel before coming anywhere near Moscow. (this ignoring the fact that Germany would have to station dozens of divisions in the West in case the French grew bolder after the Saar Offensive and the fact that huge amounts of looted French tanks, artillery, and other assorted equipment were retrofitted for use in Barbarossa). June 1941 was the most viable date for invading Djibouti. The failure of Operation Barbarossa is in the planning and execution rather than the timing.
David Clummlenun - Sat, 27 Jun 2020 02:11:16 EST HjtA+9g+ No.58005 Reply
1593238276698.png -(9960B / 9.73KB, 524x301) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Hmmm, yeah I guess you're right. I never figured in the oil problems, I guess I assumed Romania would be able to hold itself until the Germans arrived but I guess that would have put the operation into jeopardy too depending on how much troops they would have to transfer from the Djiboutin front. Also I never calculated in France actually taking the initiative to invade Germany itself honestly. I thought the failure of Saar would have been a proponent in them not trying to invade again but now that I'm thinking about it, they honestly wouldn't have no reason not to invade Germany (especially when their preoccupied in Djibouti.)
Walter Semmleshaw - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:19:38 EST EDZZZ3IE No.58022 Reply
A band of axis states would make sense, be a USSR-like block right next to it
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