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Tell me everything about America + (Soviet) Russia + Middle East by Jack Hillyhall - Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:00:45 EST ID:asXAvW71 No.56601 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I'm trying to discuss ISIS with my friends and family, but eventually we always seem to hit some sort of dark spot of ignorance. Questions like:
  • Why is ISIS about religion, unlike Al-Qaeda?
  • Why did America create Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Why is influence in the ME so important?
  • Why did Iraq invade Kuwait, and why was it important enough to cause the Gulf War?
  • Why was the US buddies with Saddam? Why did the relationship go south?
  • Why does the US fear Iran so much?
  • Why did the USSR invade Afghanistan?
  • What possible gain could there be in turning the ME communist?
  • Why does Israel exist?
  • What's Clinton's role?

This is just a fraction of all the questions I have. Please don't feel limited to just answering these questions. I'm really trying to understand the current situation and how we got here. I'm also looking for a good, mostly OBJECTIVE documentary on the subject (possibly impossible to find?)
Really, I'm just looking for an outline of the past 60 years of history, simple enough for anyone interested enough to ask the question to understand. I realize I could just google it, but most of the times the reasoning they provide is as dry and unhelpful as "it was a in response to this event".

I know this is asking for much, but face it, ya'll fuckers love history enough that you'll enjoy telling me everything you know. you enjoy telling ignoramuses like me what's up.
Tl;DR: read the title and do it.
>>
James Bubberham - Wed, 23 Mar 2016 05:54:51 EST ID:FqRGTRMQ No.56602 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Why is ISIS about religion, unlike Al-Qaeda?
ISIS is at the "working class" level about religion yes. To the leaders of ISIS, it's just about creating your own country and living in riches just like Hitler did.
Al-Qaeda and ISIS aren't that different, but Al-Qaeda has a more political goal, to cut off Western meddling in the Middle-East. ISIS is just some ex-Al-Qaeda guys that want to conquer their own kingdom.

>Why did America create Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Why is influence in the ME so important?
America created Al-Qaeda by playing chicken with the USSR, and America won. With the USSR dead, the only power Al-Qaeda could attack was America. America created ISIS by attacking Al-Qaeda, and invading Iraq and just disbanding the Iraqi military (instead of utilizing the Iraqi military as a tool). With Al-Qaeda's infrastructure in shambles and thousands of ex-Iraqi military personnel and officers without work, it was really easy for some entrepreneurial people to set up ISIS by combining resources from both crippled groups.

>Why did Iraq invade Kuwait, and why was it important enough to cause the Gulf War?
Oil? Because Iraq thought they could get away with it? I dunno.

>Why was the US buddies with Saddam? Why did the relationship go south?
Because Saddam fucking hated Iran, and because the USA fucking hated Iran. Of course, this was a very shallow relationship, since Saddam was a socialist dictator, and we all know how the USA feels about people that even just bend a bit to the left.

>Why does the US fear Iran so much?
Because it was the first time the CIA FUCKING FAILED HARDCORE to blackops a country into an American ally?

>Why did the USSR invade Afghanistan?
I honestly don't know.

>What possible gain could there be in turning the ME communist?
Oil? Balance of power?

>Why does Israel exist?
Because post-WW2 UK was fucking retarded?

>What's Clinton's role?
He plays some dayum good saxophone son.
>>
John Degglemine - Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:06:18 EST ID:asXAvW71 No.56604 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56602
>Al-Qaeda has a more political goal, to cut off Western meddling in the Middle-East
is this really what they wanted? seems to be a spectacular failure if it is, obviously.
>Saddam fucking hated Iran
Why did Saddam hate Iran?
>CIA FUCKING FAILED HARDCORE to blackops a country into an American ally
Hmm, I pretty ignorant when it comes to Iran. Could you please elaborate what happened?
>>
Lydia Chisslefire - Thu, 24 Mar 2016 06:11:25 EST ID:FqRGTRMQ No.56605 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56604
>is this really what they wanted? seems to be a spectacular failure if it is, obviously.
Well yeah, that's why Al-Qaeda is having a semi-hostile take-over of their monopoly on terrorism by ISIS.
>Why did Saddam hate Iran?
Iraq wanted to be the main power in the region instead of Iran, also Iran's ruling party were the same people that were being oppressed by the Iraqi Baath party.
>Hmm, I pretty ignorant when it comes to Iran. Could you please elaborate what happened?
Iran used to have a pro-West king, and he got disposed off. The Iranians then had democratic elections, and they picked a socialist secular government. The CIA didn't like lefties, so they staged an insurgency to bring the king back. It failed, and religious fundamentalists destroyed the CIA-backed insurgency and ensured that democracy in Iran was dead in the following powervacuum.
>>
Walter Hengertodging - Thu, 24 Mar 2016 17:32:33 EST ID:slEOrfVs No.56606 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Why is ISIS about religion, unlike Al-Qaeda?
Because US and European right-wing political elements want to push this agenda. ISIS and Al-Qaeda are both upset with US/western meddling in the Middle East. Their methods are different though. Al-Qaeda was happy working in the shadows of governments that enable them. ISIS is trying to establish a physical state, though they are failing and losing territory these days.

>Why did America create Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Why is influence in the ME so important?
America didn't create them like in a laboratory, but they did help create the conditions that lead to their emergence. Al-Qaeda: funding rebels in Afghanistan in the 80s (OBL was in Afghanistan but independently wealthy so he just bought weapons from CIA-backed smugglers). And ISIS: Disbanding and blacklisting the Baath Party in 2003 in Iraq and creating conditions for Al-Qaeda to move into that country.

US and the west want influence in the Mid East A) for Oil B) to check Russian influence in the region.

>Why did Iraq invade Kuwait, and why was it important enough to cause the Gulf War?
Saddam wanted Kuwait partly because he wanted a seaport, he justified it with ethnic nationalism basically. This led to Gulf War because unchecked 19th century expansionism is not something the world wanted going on as we moved into the 21st century.

>Why was the US buddies with Saddam? Why did the relationship go south?
Weapons sales, anti-Soviet influence.

>Why does the US fear Iran so much?
Geopolitics. The Iranian Revolution in 1979 led to a hostage crisis involving Americans being held captive. Also Iran's rivals Israel and Saudi Arabia (and Iraq in the 80s) were all America's allies, so it's natural the relationship would be antagonistic.

>Why did the USSR invade Afghanistan?
There was an independent Communist revolution in Kabul and they asked the Soviet Union to help them secure their revolution. Plus it would have been a good strategic ally to help check US ally Pakistan.

>What possible gain could there be in turning the ME communist?
The Soviet Union occasionally tired foment world revolution by supplying arms and military aid to countries the world over. North Korea, North Vietnam, many places in Africa and Eastern Europe.

>Why does Israel exist?
There was this terrible genocide of Jews in Europe during WW2 so when the UK was dismantling its imperial holdings in the Middle East after the war they created Israel so European Jews could have some place to go and feel safe. There was a Zionist movement for decades prior to WW2 and those elements pushed hard for this as well.

>What's Clinton's role?
pic related
>>
John Grandman - Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:14:24 EST ID:rIRvvvHI No.56608 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ISIS was formed from leftovers of Iraqi Intelligence. They figured out that they could fool foreigners into fighting for them if they made the organization seem pure jihad.
>>
Doris Nickledale - Fri, 25 Mar 2016 08:58:25 EST ID:FqRGTRMQ No.56610 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>56606
>There was an independent Communist revolution in Kabul and they asked the Soviet Union to help them secure their revolution.

There was? Interesting. I didn't know that.
>>
Nathaniel Crandlehatch - Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:47:09 EST ID:NPevHm2F No.56626 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56601
ISIS is an attempt to recreate the Arab Caliphate during the Golden Age of Islam (circa 700-1260) that existed between the founding of Islam and the invasion by Genghis Khan and the first Mongol Horde. Al-Qaeda, meanwhile, is a rogue CIA kite (cut the strings and it drifts away) that got ditched in every way possible after the Soviets pulled from Afghanistan.

The Middle East, besides the oil assets (even with alternative fuel, oil makes plastic) is important because of its tactical value in the Old World.

Iraq needed to invade Kuwait to recover its debt from the Iran-Iraq War (1980-88), backed on both sides by the US government for a balance of power strategy.

US, fighting communism, made odd bedfellows, in a game of chess between the CIA and KGB started by Eisenhower on the American end of things. Remember Vietnam?

Iran's democratically elected Parliament was overthrown by the CIA in favor of a dictator (the Shah, Persian Imperial term) under Truman, and they have a ton of oil but no refining capacity courtesy of the West and East so they have to pick a side (or get nuclear power).

The USSR was after ports, and a potential oil pipeline, plus inroads into other countries via a land route for their Marxist global revolution that Lenin was after.

The Middle East will never be communist in the European terms, or capitalist either. Different base mode of production (Europe is slave and serf labor, China is communal property, etc.).

Israel is an idea created by a guy named Herzl, who applied Friedrich Nietzsche to Rabbinical Judaism and created the movement now known as Zionism, similar to Evangelicalism, and often partnered with it in political networks.

Clinton was loath to take on the War on Terror, since he didn't want to get involved in what he saw as a new Cold War.
>>
Barnaby Crorringchot - Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:55:30 EST ID:M0v1aQOJ No.56640 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56608
Yeah I remember reading that earlier on. Is it not essentially a group of secular ex generals from the Sadam Reigime?

It does seem like A LOT of effort to go full Jihad though. Like, have ISIS not pretty much created a horrible shithole for themselves? It almost seems like the only "redeeming" quality of what they are doing would be the fact it's in the name of god. Without the Islam in Islamic state have you not just got a dysfunctional state surrounded by enemies and hated by everyone? If the end goal isn't a caliphate then wtf is it?
>>
Isabella Dirrykig - Tue, 12 Apr 2016 17:36:04 EST ID:Gn0TQTKd No.56641 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56640
that's what you get when you put warlords in charge of the state (IS). the power hungry warlords get their dicks hard by taking over territories and committing brutal massacres, and the ultra religious grunts get their wish granted by living in a biblical society.
warlords don't care about the living conditions of their subjects. warlords don't care about a well-functioning society. when the population is miserable and brainwashed you can make them do anything. you can't convince a soft city dweller with a nice job and a happy life to strap on a bomb vest and kill his neighbours.
>>
Fuck Wigglegold - Fri, 22 Apr 2016 15:27:12 EST ID:an8Px9f4 No.56656 Ignore Report Quick Reply
One word can successfully answer all these questions and it begins with a 'J' and ends in an 'S'.
>>
Hugh Tootfield - Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:45:42 EST ID:Fe+kKsf5 No.56672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56656
Those dirty god damn Jesuits
>>
Edward Credgeforth - Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:54:03 EST ID:slEOrfVs No.56673 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56672
>NUCLEAR BOMB HITS CANADA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR-IdlAKrwc
>>
Phineas Girringhall - Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:53:40 EST ID:7AdeD08Q No.56674 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56656

Jamaicans?
>>
Edward Banningchot - Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:56:31 EST ID:fFCl/TFP No.56675 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56656

I don't understand what jabronis have to do with this
>>
Cornelius Blatherhall - Sun, 08 May 2016 04:24:04 EST ID:z7z0SW92 No.56686 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>56601
You should watch a documentary called bitter lake by Adam Curtis man.
>>
James Wurryfoot - Sun, 08 May 2016 07:12:29 EST ID:yvXoqJ+M No.56687 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56686
Isn't that about Al Qaeda? Rather than ISIS?
>>
Charlotte Surringbane - Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:59:23 EST ID:q5G2v/0J No.56975 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56687
Yes and how Al Qaeda morphed into ISIS
>>
Doris Giblinghodge - Tue, 15 Nov 2016 01:52:01 EST ID:f/IVyCNt No.56977 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56674
>>56675

Are you blind? He's clearly talking about the unchecked religious conspiracy at the heart of modern media and banking: Jehovah's Witnesses

>>56686

I caught HyperNormalisation recently and that was pretty well made (OP you would probably wanna check that out), are all his doco's kind'a like that?
>>
Fuck Clannerpat - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 07:52:45 EST ID:FqRGTRMQ No.56980 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56975
Al Qaeda didn't morph into ISIS.

A bunch of Al Qaeda dudes wondered why the fuck they were doing terrorism with no benefits when they could try to create a state instead, so they left Al Qaeda and formed ISIS.

Al Qaeda still exists man.
>>
Fuck Clannerpat - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 07:54:46 EST ID:FqRGTRMQ No.56981 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56977
It's all fun and games, but Jehovah Witnesses are basically a cult created by some wannabe preacher who set up that cult to evade taxes.

>put religious people on a farm "working for god" doing volunteer work
>part of the food is eaten by the volunteers
>majority of the food is sold
>don't pay a lot of taxes
>>
Fuck Sizzlestog - Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:59:56 EST ID:ds+jfpjk No.56985 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56980
>>56975
ISIS was the result of different groups coming together but at the same time was largely formed out of jtj who became known as al-qaeda in iraq during the surge.
>>
S\Gh0st\ - Sun, 25 Dec 2016 10:50:42 EST ID:cnjBxcGC No.57029 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well, Al-Qaedas ideals are strongly linked with anti-imperialism: The institution was created first as a war front against USSRs troops in afghanistan. After that, as USA decided to help Kuwait against afeghanistan, Al-Qaeda turned against the uncle sam, wich in the past was its ally and financier. As you can see, Al-Qaedas ideals are more political than religious, although the bastards are not secular.
I would say that their goals are not as evil as their methods.
>>
S\Gh0st\ - Sun, 25 Dec 2016 10:52:01 EST ID:cnjBxcGC No.57030 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>56601
Well, Al-Qaedas ideals are strongly linked with anti-imperialism: The institution was created first as a war front against USSRs troops in afghanistan. After that, as USA decided to help Kuwait against afeghanistan, Al-Qaeda turned against the uncle sam, wich in the past was its ally and financier. As you can see, Al-Qaedas ideals are more political than religious, although the bastards are not secular.
I would say that their goals are not as evil as their methods.
>>
Augustus Shakelock - Wed, 28 Dec 2016 22:20:38 EST ID:ERYmyDk/ No.57032 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>56601
Don't forget the Opium!
SWEET SWEET DELICIOUS NUTRICIOUS OPIUM!
For all your consumer needs!
Safe for adults, safe for kids, safe for animals, safe for livestock, safe enough to convert to your favorite concentrates!
>>
Nigel Clandleshaw - Tue, 03 Jan 2017 18:17:33 EST ID:bNT6UmHB No.57033 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I see people just guessing in this thread.
If you want to understand M.E history then you have go back to the imperialism days. After the imperialists left, the area was carved up with no regard to the original national, ethnic, religious factors. The countires became, and still are, primitive authoritarian system of governance. That's about early-mid 20th century shit. A lot of your questions are small time which is kinda bad if you want the bigger picture.
>Why is ISIS about religion, unlike Al-Qaeda?
Do you mean what were the factors to it's ideological birth?
A severe lack of education, poverty, a prominent religions role in the M.E, reactionary radicalization because of foreign interests.

>Why did America create Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Why is influence in the ME so important?
America indirectly created Al-Qaeda, it wasn't the number 1 intention. The U.S armed the mujahideen against the U.S.S.R. Then the mujahideen turned against the U.S. because of general involvement in the M.E (support of Israel, economic and military influence). ISIS was created by the same source of people, the militant religious radicals from the 80's and 90's , all the while radicalizing new and younger people.

>Why is influence in the ME so important?
Why is the influence in Asia or Europe so important? Because it's territory. There's still east vs. west mentality.

>Why did Iraq invade Kuwait, and why was it important enough to cause the Gulf War?
Iraq was authoritarian, it was only natural to start wars for economic and power gains. He also waged war on kurds and Iran. This is what authoritarian systems do.

>Why did the relationship go south?
Because of the gulf war

>Why does the US fear Iran so much?
Nuclear weapons

>Why did the USSR invade Afghanistan?
That was a part of the ideological battle between the east and the west: whole capitalism vs. state-capitalism ("communism"). They wanted to install a mouthpiece of Moscow, not just in the M.E but all over the world, to undermine international U.S hegemony.

>What possible gain could there be in turning the ME communist?
A regional ally. Pretty important gain seeing the U.S had nuclear weapons in Turkey.

>Why does Israel exist?
Because the UN wanted to be nice with the jews, seeing how they all got massacred. So an all jewish state was created.

>What's Clinton's role?
What?

If you really want to know the truth then there's only one answer and that's capitalism.
It was imperialism the highest form of capitalism that fucked up the place originally then contemporary capitalism fucked up the place by refusing restabilizing efforts in those underdeveloped, regional nations. The gulf war beef was because of oil, the iraqi war was because of oil. It all goes back to global prices and industry.
>>
Samuel Chaddlestone - Wed, 04 Jan 2017 03:34:05 EST ID:UqesEraZ No.57034 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57033
Good post, Nigel. Excellent work.
>>
Henry Chedgeman - Sat, 21 Oct 2017 15:41:22 EST ID:qzwjzNUD No.57283 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57032
dude it's just a coincidence


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