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Korean & Japanese or Korean v. Japanese by Nathaniel Brookspear - Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:11:26 EST ID:jJy382Y2 No.11787 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I'm trying to get my life together after many months of idle alcoholism. I've basically been on an extended gap year. And I am wondering if it is worth the time to take Korean and Japanese together for business and cultural purposes. Or just one language.

I already know enough French,German,and Spanish to travel or if need be enough to practice and become fluent enough to conduct business. So should I study both Japanese and Korean for the winter semester since I would be going to class everyday in a condensed amount of time. Or just one.

I live in Los Angeles and there is a huge Korean Community and a sizeable Japanese community.
>>
Basil Snodhood - Thu, 16 Oct 2014 19:30:29 EST ID:Z1v+SCTB No.11788 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'll give every bit of advice I can, but my experience with Korean is mostly academic and impersonal.



They have very... tense relations. Not that that should matter.

Both languages are drastically unlike French, Spanish, or German, though the phonologies and grammars are a little like the mixed.

They're at similar difficulty levels, though Korean is just a little harder. They have very similar grammars, similar phonotactics, and similar pitch/stress/timing patterns, but they have different phonologies; Japanese is like a simpler Spanish, but Korean has a lot more, including altaic vowels (an ö and ü broken into we and üi, an unrounded u, which to be fair is the default allophone of /u/ in Japanese). Japanese has a very rigid 5 vowel system, but Korean has a 7 vowel system where the near open vowels have slid to more close positions. Korean has 3 rows of stop consonants - ptk and bdg like us, but also a set of tense consonants in the places of ptk too where you tighten your throat. (graphically, <pp><tt><kk> and the non-stop <ss>; eg dal means moon, tal means mask, and ttal means daughter). Korean even has traces of vowel harmony, but that's simple enough.

Writing systems add a whole bunch of difficulty points back to Japan, evening things out. Korean uses an alphabet like ours, except the syllables are scrunched up into blocks. Chinese characters are used only very rarely now in SK, usually in scientific things to distinguish homographs (like boohoo tear and shred tear). There's usually 1:1 correspondence spelling wise; their alphabet, and thus their writing system, was historically put down but today championed as a writing system you could learn in a day.

Japan on the other hand uses a syllabary, where each "letter" represents one whole unique syllable (it's simpler phonology, though, means this isn't quite as crazy as it would be for English or even Korean). Except it doesn't just use one syllabary, it uses 2. And to top that off, it uses Chinese characters unsparingly, so you have to know those. There's some patterns you can gleam from the Chinese-derived pronunciations of the characters (oh yeah, there's usually two, often more pronunciations of the characters), but because Japan evolved independently, most of the characters have no patterns whatsoever to their pronunciations. You really have to suck it up and memorize.

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Martin Nattingstone - Sun, 19 Oct 2014 01:16:57 EST ID:RTil2obd No.11792 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Just a hobby/academically go for it, they are difficult and will consume a lot of time. I did a year of Japanese in college and have since forgotten most of it, the 3 alphabets thing didn't really bother fsr it just kinda clicked with me, because only certian types of words are spelled with a certain alphabet.

Both culture are extraordinarily xenophobic and your chances of living/working there are basically zero, but being so isolated they produce a ton of their own media, no I'm not just talking about anime, so you'll have lots of ways to absorb the language/culture.


Uploding Latin course. by Thomas Trotville - Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:32:53 EST ID:fGC+CkpF No.11610 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Hello, /lang/. Are any of you interested in learning Latin? I've been recently cleaning out my house and stumbled upon some of my old Latin textbooks. If any of you want, I can put all the information into a pastebin to share with you all.
4 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
NinKenDo !GEcKEyOqGA - Sun, 24 Aug 2014 01:09:43 EST ID:6gimAog7 No.11626 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11610

Sounds great OP.
>>
Thom Yorke - Wed, 27 Aug 2014 23:48:58 EST ID:f9IhLl1l No.11639 Ignore Report Quick Reply
And then OP never delivered
>>
Edwin Fisslelin - Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:38:46 EST ID:zDy+3X47 No.11747 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Your thread makes Caesar die.
>>
Jenny Desslehood - Thu, 16 Oct 2014 10:02:11 EST ID:ix0FBFjU No.11786 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Interested here, but WHERE IS OP
>>
Charlotte Femmlegold - Mon, 20 Oct 2014 02:44:55 EST ID:Z1v+SCTB No.11797 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP est canaedus


Corpus Linguistics by Nigger Ginkinway - Tue, 14 Oct 2014 10:59:12 EST ID:YpxqR+QJ No.11781 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Have you heard of it?

Tried it?

I'm very curious.. It's a systematic breakdown of single paragraphs/phrases in order to learn the context of vocabulary and sentence structure of that language? It seems that anybody with a true willingness to learn a language will inevitably end up doing this. It's why one would want to watch a foreign film in the language they're learning, attempt to read newspaper articles, write poems, songs, etc.
>>
Clara Candergold - Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:36:07 EST ID:OCB4hcwz No.11783 Ignore Report Quick Reply
just reading about what it is scared the shit out me. this looks hard as nuts, and its something i wouldnt touch with a 20inch pole.
>>
Graham Soshtere - Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:25:28 EST ID:dgpaNSaa No.11784 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP, you do understand that linguistics is not the learning of languages, right? When people talk about corpus linguistics, they're talking about analyzing corpora with an emphasis on the analyzing. If you're doing things like POS tagging, it is a truly awful way to study a language that's already well documented.
>>
Henry Hallerhedge - Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:21:10 EST ID:vOuS2D9s No.11811 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11781

my understanding is you understand what it is for, one of us is really wrong

imagine you already have a really high level of English, difficult, I know

Now you are writing an essay and you want to say they "had" an election.. but then you think.. wait a minute! there's a better way to say this! but the word won't come to you, you have been writing all day. you look it up and you see.. ah, you "hold" an election. Walla!

It's useful for a million things along these lines. When you're a beginner and you are doing exercises in a grammar book, the fill in the gaps exercises most likely all came from a corpus like that.


Sitting down and reading it would be along the lines of sitting down and reading the Internet.


German translations for me? by Phineas Winkinwodge - Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:41:10 EST ID:8cqzfMaE No.11664 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Would someone proficient in German be so kind as to translate the song names from Crystal Castles II?

>Fainting Spells
>Celestica (do it the best you can)
>Doe Deer
>Baptism
>Year of Silence
>Empathy
>Suffocation
>Violent Dreams
>Vietnam
>Birds
>Pap Smear
>Not in Love
>Intimate
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Jack Gonkindock - Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:58:08 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11668 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'm bad, not familiar with the source and my german's atrophying but I'm gonna try just because I can. But let me be overruled



>Ohnmachtzauber (fainting magic) Ohmachtsweile (fainting period of time)
>Himmlisch (heavenly) or Himmelland (heavenland) idk Zelestika geht auch
> Hirschkuh (literal, sounds like deercow, maybe like Hinde or Hindin would be better for a female deer)
>Taufe; Baptismus would be understood but it's not as common
>Jahr der Stille or Jahr des Schweigens if it's silence in the shut up sense not the outerspace or frozen tundra sense
>Empathie
>I don't know this off the top of my head, I wanna say Asphyxie (Asphyxia) but that's too scientific. *Suffikation would be the word if the word Germanized normal but no guarantees and it's frenchie anyways and no one likes that
>Gewältige Träume
>Vietnam
>Vögel
>Pap-Test
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>>
Augustus Niggerville - Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:46:44 EST ID:8cqzfMaE No.11669 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11668
Thanks.
>>
Jack Gonkindock - Wed, 03 Sep 2014 15:26:19 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11670 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11669
Ohmachts Episode for the first I think I was drunk when I typed this
>>
Priscilla Biblingson - Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:36:46 EST ID:144YlSuj No.11772 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11668
Suffocation = Erstickung
*gewalttätige Träume
*Ich bin aus Kreide gemacht


ITT explain why english is the best language by Oliver Blatherdock - Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:54:36 EST ID:Zc5d8Gm+ No.11675 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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in your own opinion, plz don't stay a shit war about Spanish and mandarin again for the billionth time
16 posts and 4 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Samuel Crandersick - Sun, 28 Sep 2014 07:24:04 EST ID:xLUi03Ty No.11759 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11675

This is going to sound ignorant, but english is a very versatile language.
>>
Polly Sevingwadging - Mon, 06 Oct 2014 09:54:12 EST ID:yUAAF9AA No.11765 Ignore Report Quick Reply
money and culture.

disproportionate amount of the worlds wealth is controlled by english speakers.

disproportionate amount of the world's culture is communicated in english.

england and america to thank for this.
>>
Nigel Trotshaw - Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:48:57 EST ID:OCB4hcwz No.11766 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11765
spot on.
>>
Emma Dorrywill - Mon, 06 Oct 2014 18:58:15 EST ID:WjmbZth5 No.11768 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11766
pray for the rise of China?
>>
Nicholas Fadgespear - Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:19:53 EST ID:j8qnAVzG No.11814 Ignore Report Quick Reply
top kek, almost every other language around the globe allows the speaker to be more specific & to find the correct _shade_ of expression they should use according to the situation, offering 9001 times larger vocab. English is just too simple. It's not even in the 3rd leauge of epic languages.


learning Spanish by Jarvis Divingchig - Tue, 24 Jun 2014 09:07:51 EST ID:PZ6JLEYk No.11489 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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HEY I would really like to learn Spanish. Can you guys provide some links or hints that have proven to work?
30 posts and 2 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Lydia Sinningwune - Mon, 01 Sep 2014 07:01:58 EST ID:sPwTzU+z No.11654 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>11645
Tienes toda la razón, cuando hablamos no necesitamos tildes, además sería imposible añadir tildes porque no existen en el sonido.
Mientras estemos en un lugar con texto, estaremos escribiendo. No sé usted, pero yo respeto el lenguaje lo suficiente como para seguir sus reglas ortográficas, sin importar si la conversación es formal o casual.
>>
Ernest Clayway - Wed, 10 Sep 2014 03:51:22 EST ID:XRI0QuV2 No.11689 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Just move to Texas.

I'm a natives born white man and I can fully understand it and partially speak it, just from going to school and working with Mexicans, many other whites along the southern border states are able just pick up by doing the daily grind. Language sure is a weird human concept!
>>
Shit Hiffinghall - Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:25:39 EST ID:tEdc4xb4 No.11691 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11489
Learn English or Chinese shithead
>>
Isabella Dicklepat - Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:07:50 EST ID:dG4CW9sx No.11703 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>11645
>>11654

no mamen, ustedes no hablan con acentos?
seguro se meten en muchos malentendidos.
>>
Simon Fuppermed - Tue, 16 Sep 2014 00:19:51 EST ID:sPwTzU+z No.11715 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>11703
>no mamen


What's even the point. by Phyllis Dottingmadge - Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:55:53 EST ID:3PaB0X0O No.11569 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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No one wants to talk to you in their native language, they want to practice English with you. Or they'll get mad as if you were implying they don't know English. It's a required subject in every developed nation, everyone speaks English. Foreign media is available translated. I really enjoyed Spanish and French in school/college but now I'm disappointed I never get to use them and can't see the point of trying to pick up another. Why do you guys do it?
8 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Fucking Serringdock - Sun, 07 Sep 2014 13:12:53 EST ID:gG+m/mt6 No.11674 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11569

Umm.. why don't you.. you know.. travel.. nobody speaks fucking English
>>
Oliver Brookville - Mon, 08 Sep 2014 05:16:08 EST ID:1aKqN+jS No.11679 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11646

Dutch guy here.

I try to speak German to my German friend, but we always fall back on English. Why? It's just so much easier. I speak it, he speaks it, the conversation just goes much, much more fluently and thus, is a lot more fun.

Try getting into a group of people. They will be much more reluctant to talk in English and will fall back to their own language except when adressing you.
>>
Beatrice Hollerhuck - Tue, 09 Sep 2014 15:35:34 EST ID:AWCZ+ZVx No.11686 Ignore Report Quick Reply
counterpoint:
http://www.memrise.com/blog/10-monolingual-countries-where-you-need-to-know-th/
http://www.memrise.com/blog/10-monolingual-countries-where-you-need-to-know-2/
>>
Nicholas Famblebanks - Sat, 13 Sep 2014 08:54:13 EST ID:yemH8wU3 No.11701 Ignore Report Quick Reply
In China I've become friends with a lot of 40+ year old men and women. People who own the convenience stores near me, my apt complex security guards, the ladies who monitor the keys in the teacher's lounges at my school, etc. These people never learned English and by this point in their lives they're pretty much settled in and are never going to. So what if they're almost old enough to be my parents, they're constantly bored at work with plenty of free time to chat and don't know any English beyond "hello."
>>
Doris Crackleshaw - Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:50:09 EST ID:xlt8pxCz No.11710 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11569

>I really enjoyed Spanish and French in school/college but now I'm disappointed I never get to use them and can't see the point of trying to pick up another.

What? You must be shrooming.

I spent a week in Paris and didn't hear a word of English until I got back to the airport. Not my taxi driver, not my hotelier, not the woman at the drugstore, not my waiters, not the guys who sold the tickets at the Louvre. None of them spoke any English to me. They were either unable or unwilling. And as much as I'd like to flatter myself by thinking that it was because my French was so good, it most certainly wasn't. I held very basic conversations and took care of necessities, but it was obvious that my French was shit. And I'm fat, so they probably figured I was American. Or British. Either way, an English speaker. But I heard no English from them.


Need help boosting my German by Nathaniel Wullybodge - Tue, 02 Sep 2014 00:51:44 EST ID:si6pwvxP No.11661 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I am a German student 3 courses away from my degree in German, but I still really struggle in reading. I passed B1 in April... I'm in a very difficult German reading course right now where we are tackling a Novella a week. Half the students are grad students and most of the other undergrad German students are out classing me.

I really love German but I am starting to get down on myself and my motivation is suffering. I'm also a geology student and doing calculus II this semester, so I'm pretty heavily loaded up on schoolwork.

What's a good way to amass vocab and confidence at this point in my studies?
>>
Lydia Pallyfield - Tue, 02 Sep 2014 02:33:57 EST ID:/B/BFMOS No.11662 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Vocab? Anki. Confidence? Actually speaking and thinking in the language. Start talking to native speakers if you haven't already.
>>
Whitey Pittingwater - Fri, 12 Sep 2014 20:43:44 EST ID:BArGmrn0 No.11699 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Unterhalte dich mit Muttersprachlern.
>>
Nicholas Famblebanks - Sat, 13 Sep 2014 08:07:36 EST ID:yemH8wU3 No.11700 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Remember: language learning is not a race. It's easy to think of it as being one, especially when you're taking courses and being outdone by your peers (I've been there before, I know.)

The easiest way to regain confidence is to go back and read something you haven't read in your target language in over a year. As long as you're practicing, even just a little, you'll be able to note a higher level of fluency over your past self. Don't worry about being better than your classmates, just focus on being better than you.
>>
Charlotte Siffinglot - Fri, 10 Oct 2014 05:52:53 EST ID:KHT6bnsu No.11774 Ignore Report Quick Reply
memrise is good too

everything you can, as many different resources as you can, that way you see the same words in different situations instead of revising over and over

when reading novellas don't write the translations of words over them but instead on a post it and stick it to the page

then try to read the page and refer to the post it when you need it, giving yourself time to try to remember the word first


Voynich Script by Simon Wivingline - Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:11:50 EST ID:8+cBdc9r No.11649 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript
What's it mean?
>>
Walter Gibberpet - Mon, 01 Sep 2014 04:27:44 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11653 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Probably a c. 1450 act of personal art that just got traded into noble hands, forgotten about, and passed on. The techniques used to make it and the tech drawn in it put it at a date range of 1450-1480 at the most likely and the location of somewhere in central to east central Europe, where it came from.

It's information patterns as a mix of pseudolinguistic gibberish (like glossolia, speaking in tongues) and of something patterning like a mildly analytic language, suiting the "chinese" explanation but parsimoniously being explained by the Germanic and even a reduced Latin (somewhat like a correctedRomanian or Spanish or French) underlying the cipher. The noise though is probably so great that it's what's throwing off decypherment. Additionally, some of the nonlinguistic patterns detected might explain the lack of corrections - the mistakes were simply addended with corrections; like say "The lino lion ate the mause mouse", outside of glossolalia patterns of simple noise.



Regarding it's purpose, probably just someone's private world committed to paper. A would-be mystic monk in a time where mysticism was flourishing but off paper, possibly compounded by drugs and disease (migraines explain many of the stranger sites). Another explanation that I find parsimonious, a sufferer of an autism-like disorder - likely to be made a priest in the era, likely to have an inner world like that persist into adulthood, likely to put in the excruciating detail to commit it to paper, and have the overactive pattern-seeking behavior to put it through a cypher.


Of course it's just my opinion. This site is a little bit more conservative in that it dismisses most "explanations" without committing to one of it's own but it brings up quite a lot of the known details for people in good detail:

http://www.ciphermysteries.com/


Language-learning method I created by Martin Niggerspear - Sun, 24 Aug 2014 00:39:20 EST ID:rbS8hkzn No.11625 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Rate the method I have come up with to learn Icelandic. I'd like to hear your guyses feedback concerning it. I'm still at the first stage and sticking to it.

First stage: Acquiring reading fluency

The first stage consists of reading general texts (like news) in order to get to know the basic vocabulary used by these kind of texts. News texts generally follow a template and always use the same words. The method to acquire the reading fluency requires that the learner checks every word in a text in order to get accostumed with patterns, like conjugation and declension patterns. It is slow and tiresome in the beginning, but as day passes, the learner will be able to recognize more and more words, find out the infinitive form of a conjugated verb and the nominative form of a declined adjective, adverb, noun, article or pronoun. In this stage the learner is to be assisted by pages that are capable of indentifying conjugated verbs' and declined words' root form in order to help in the pattern-finding part. A website capable of finding the root form of declined words or conjugated verbs is http://bin.arnastofnun.is/forsida/. Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org) is also able to conjugate and decline words, but it isn't as reliable.

Second stage: Acquiring writing fluency

By the time the learner reaches this stage, he's to have the standard vocabulary used by news websites. He's to know the most used verbs, nouns and adjectives as well as their conjugation and declension patterns. In this stage the learner will use the vocabulary he acquired to write blog-like entries in the website Lang-8 (http://www.lang-8.com). This is the stage that will focus the heaviest on grammar. The learner must submit his texts to Lang-8, compare their texts with the corrections submitted by native icelanders and study the mistakes in order to get rid of the majority of them. Sites like WordReferenceForums (http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=75) can be used to answer specific answer regarding grammar and Wikipedia's article on Icelandic grammar covers the technical intricacies. The learner when writing an entry must translate the words he wants to use in his entries using a translato…
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Not a polygot by Polly Murdwill - Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:57:36 EST ID:PUY3prz5 No.11590 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I'm 26 years old and I only speak English. There is no doubt in my mind that I am progressing in Spanish very quickly.

Would it be implausible for me to seek a degree in Linguistics?
>>
William Chackleforth - Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:06:48 EST ID:/B/BFMOS No.11591 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Of course not. And you don't have to be a competent speaker of multiple languages to have a degree in linguistics, although it would be very weird if you got that far and didn't pick up a few.
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Edward Honeyfield - Wed, 06 Aug 2014 05:49:45 EST ID:w4o0Iqm5 No.11597 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11590
There are plenty of linguists who only speak one languge. If you want to learn languages get a degree in languages instead .
>>
Oliver Hebbershaw - Fri, 08 Aug 2014 16:10:56 EST ID:qizTVHik No.11603 Ignore Report Quick Reply
How's that Spanish coming along? It was coming super quickly for me at first until I got owned and realized there's so much I didn't know. Still progressing though.
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Jack Sunningstone - Wed, 20 Aug 2014 22:40:49 EST ID:zQYXj+n2 No.11616 Ignore Report Quick Reply
That is an impressive reference, dude.


japanese question by Doris Snodgold - Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:55:14 EST ID:aNRx9wD5 No.11234 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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how does one write/say "snake river" in japanese?

hebi = snake

kawa = river

hebi kawa = snake river?
>>
Martha Brullerpack - Sun, 13 Apr 2014 03:24:59 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11235 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Don't know for sure, just trying to help, but I would think either

hebi no kawa == river of snakes with the genitive postfix, if an unnatural construction (like a hitherto unknown or undescribed thing, especially when brought up for analogy). Might be a bit more "snake's river" than intended if it's anything like the head final languages I'm used to.

else I think Japanese has that areal lenition-induced consonant gradation thing going on:

hebigawa

Again don't know.
>>
moxie !QvI1p9.OFY - Tue, 15 Apr 2014 04:15:23 EST ID:avmU74pl No.11237 Ignore Report Quick Reply
sorry i'm high as fuck i've been staring at this for like an hour now wtf.

>>11235
蛇の川 (へびのかわ hebi no kawa) is "river of the snake" or "snake's river" but i think i prefer the former translation becuase... の (no) is a genitive particle... for example, if you had 川の蛇, it's now "snake of the river" or "river's snake."

but you don't really need a genitive particle here because i think snake is supposed to be a descriptive word, so unless it's a literal snake owning the river.......

>>11234
蛇川 (へびがわ hebigawa) sounds more like what you're looking for. one word.
>>
moxie !QvI1p9.OFY - Tue, 15 Apr 2014 04:15:44 EST ID:avmU74pl No.11238 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11237
and of course there's a fucking typo lolol
>>
NinKenDo !GEcKEyOqGA - Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:13:56 EST ID:VKUrAz63 No.11280 Ignore Report Quick Reply
蛇川 (へびがわ) is probably good. But I think that might mean "snake leather" given that 蛇革 was the suggested kanji from Google IME. Fucktons of homophones in Japanese anyway though, so it wouldn't much matter if the context made it clear, also in written form you'd have the kanji to make it totally clear, so if it's in written form it's definitely fine.
>>
Eugene Billingwill - Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:36:29 EST ID:yb9jDlV5 No.11615 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11238
participle


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