420chan now has a web-based IRC client available, right here
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the float Name#Password
A subject is required when posting a new thread
Subject
Comment
[*]Italic Text[/*]
[**]Bold Text[/**]
[~]Taimapedia Article[/~]
[%]Spoiler Text[/%]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace text[/pre]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Community Updates

420chan now supports HTTPS! If you find any issues, you may report them in this thread
Serbian learning by Martin Blackshaw - Wed, 13 Aug 2014 04:48:34 EST ID:MtHV5DDA No.11608 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1407919714305.jpg -(34364B / 33.56KB, 750x960) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 34364
Hey /lang/ I'm wondering if there's any good way to learn Serbian. I know it's incredibly similar to Croatian and Bosnian when it comes to spelling in the latin alphabet but it's still dissimilar to English. I was thinking if I learn the Latin alphabet and the language to a good standard, I can then learn Cyrillic script.
Are there any good learning resources out there?
TL;DR How do I learn Serbian well and quickly?
11 posts and 3 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Cyril Besslepane - Thu, 16 Apr 2015 12:57:31 EST ID:iybBgaRw No.12078 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12025
Learning Russian on your own sounds like a really tough thing. I took a year and I barely know anything; the first year is just learning all the forms the words have. The grammar is really complicated, but it's nice.
Can it be done on your own? If you're incredibly motivated, probably. But a good year of classes to start you off is probably more efficient, IMHO.
>>
CrazyFolksTribe !loJSOMZg0g - Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:25:17 EST ID:H9aA71q8 No.12079 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12078
Yeah, from what I've seen there seem to be a lot of different ways Russian words can change depending on the tense or subject or whatever. Kinda like English. For now, I'm just learning the language word-by-word and phrase-by-phrase. It's probably not efficient but I figured I'd give it a try since I'm not in a position to take real language classes right now.
>>
John Hennerstock - Sun, 19 Apr 2015 21:37:37 EST ID:Ok4x1Gp3 No.12083 Ignore Report Quick Reply
if anyone is interested, here you can ask for some good books/movies
yuchan.org/int
>>
Marta Huffington - Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:26:33 EST ID:iybBgaRw No.12085 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12079
Learning phrases without understanding the system behind it will only get you so far. The way we'd done it in the course is we looked at one noun case at a time. Then you can pretty much use prepositions and phrases with any noun once you know the noun case it requires. That and learning phrases by heart (just kind of getting a feeling of "this noun needs an ending -a here", for example) is what will make you use noun cases naturally. However, I think here it's probably rather important to have someone that can give feedback, not that you use noun cases the wrong way for too long. That wouldn't be beneficial at all.
>>
John Demmlekodge - Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:40:27 EST ID:HTwuDqQ4 No.12087 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1429756827839.jpg -(83383B / 81.43KB, 431x300) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>11608
like that other guy said, serbian is really not a distinct language, it's known as serbo-croation

i've linked this resource here before but here u go again
https://gloss.dliflc.edu/ there are serbian dialect and croatian dialect exmaples searchable there, enjoy ;)


Has anyone created a language? by Sidney Fackleshaw - Wed, 24 Dec 2014 01:18:27 EST ID:dyEUAL1Q No.11925 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1419401907740.jpg -(518976B / 506.81KB, 1280x963) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 518976
I'm curious if anyone has tried to or successfully made their own language.

As a kid I loved imagining and creating new planets. I had notebooks of alien world maps, the types of inhabitants, cultures, cities, and languages of course. I tried a few times to make languages based on my fictional creations. My best attempt was having all of the syllables/sounds memorized as well as having a writing system memorized. I'd practice writing notes with the symbols. The notes were all in English but I used the fictional alphabet to practice writing it. I never got further than making basic grammatical structures and having a short vocabulary. This was all before I was familiar with Tolkien's work.

Have any fictional languages you'd like to share?
9 posts and 3 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Frederick Femmlenid - Thu, 05 Feb 2015 15:50:42 EST ID:hL/5FZ6b No.11992 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1423169442260.png -(1086910B / 1.04MB, 572x474) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>11988
i mean i stopped going to the shrink.

i think what he meant was more of "speaking in tongues" type of thing.

sort of related parallel, but once i had a dream in korean, i knew it was in korean but i didn't know what the people were saying. then 5 years later i was randomly assigned a language to study for work, and it was korean.
>>
Cyril Mollylot - Fri, 06 Feb 2015 23:29:54 EST ID:dyEUAL1Q No.11994 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11992
I had the dream thing happen too. I was speaking fluent Japanese and my dream had subtitles. Haha! I studied Japanese for a few years but was no where near fluent, but I knew enough to tell that dream-me was speaking very well. I always wondered if I knew more Japanese on a subconscious level and could unlock it by psychedelics
>>
Priscilla Nicklebanks - Tue, 17 Feb 2015 22:30:52 EST ID:Z1v+SCTB No.12008 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I got mad at some of the claims in the "historical linguistics" literature I was reading. I'm not a linguist myself but I set up a toy language so I could model sound changes, vocab replacement, etc.

So I took a swadesh list and a number of random pages on wikipedia, and tried "to break things down" semantically a word at a time. I made a box of the categories I made, made something on the order of 30 "variables" and just assigned according to usage frequency phonemes according to a hierarchy of their existence; languages generally have b before p, for example. Ended up arbitrarily with an Indo-Aryan-esque phonology; simply as a matter of chosing something arbitrarily.


From there I ended up plotting a little path for it from Southern Africa to Central Asia; again, arbitrarily. I applied sound changes according to what would be parsimonious changes along its route; just by using sound changes that have been documented to have happened, it's randomly assigned core vocab ended up doing things like making it's non-sonorant /b/ first person marker move to /m/ in the pronoun system, and another development caused it's 2nd person n to fortify to t, arbitrarily making it an m/t language. Lots of stuff like that happened, including a lot of weird vocabulary parallels like the word for "land" j.m.j.h > jomijah >(j)emiaa > e~ia > ia/


Ended up noticing that for the core 1000 words or so, it took pretty much 3 characters at any one time to represent its roots depending on phonotactic restraints, which led it to act like an afroasiatic language rather perfectly... I also noticed that core vocabulary built up true homophones not infrequently, which meant that I usually took the word from the stratum affecting its phonology, unless I knew (or found) an example of the word being replaced with something semantically close. But I also changed word meanings regularly, keeping notes of "sememes" in the language and having a very... there's a Gaelic dictionary that I love that gives very large glosses to every word to give its every connotation, and I tried to do that with the dictionary as it changed and changed and changed, moving words and meanings as homophones were created and destroyed, leaving semantic residues behind etc. I also tried to base wordplay to create a few idioms based around alliteration, rhymes, or homophones.


But basically I ended up with a language sounding like a more Turkish, less Greek Romani. With of all things (Old) Chinese loanwords all over the place because its fake history had it evicted by the Tokharians before they themselves were evicted by the Uyghurs. I have no idea if any of the core vocabulary remained.


Of course I really didn't document myself, and this stuff's been tried before; toy languages are apparently normal. So I don't really have that much to show, although the whole thing's made me really "conservative" as far as "this sounds like this, therefore related" claims... I think I came away thinking both Afro-Asiatic and Altaic aren't valid in the traditional sense (there is an area with both vertical and horizontal transfer of features I think however) because I couldn't set up situations replicating their more complicated outcomes. Not that any of this is *remotely* conclusive.
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>
Alice Niggerville - Fri, 13 Mar 2015 02:42:31 EST ID:NgBw3eX7 No.12032 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12008
One of my favorite things I've ever read right here.
>>
Marta Huffington - Mon, 20 Apr 2015 18:17:31 EST ID:iybBgaRw No.12084 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12008
You should write a blog and have posts that go deeper into one "historical phase" or one special feature, or special cases of vocabulary. This sounds absolutely awesome and I'd love to hear more!


Cantonese by Nell Greenspear - Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:24:00 EST ID:bk34ntxt No.12080 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1429323840916.jpg -(5485B / 5.36KB, 259x194) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 5485
In Mandarin, each character has one reading (plus variations sometimes, as with 不 or 一, but these can always be put down to tone sandhi).

In Japanese, a character may have many readings but a particular word will always be read in a particular way (except that かざぐるま and フーシャ are both written as 風車.)

And if you look up a chinese character in Unihan, for Cantonese you might get more than one reading. See this example

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=807F&useutf8=true

The readings for 聿 are jyut6, leot6 and wat6. Why is this?

Is this situation more like the Mandarin aor more like the Japanese?


Can anyone translate these? by Doris Sonnerpuck - Mon, 06 Apr 2015 04:07:33 EST ID:6AkftJe3 No.12055 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1428307653772.jpg -(581363B / 567.74KB, 1280x1145) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 581363
They're scans from a japanese super nintendo game manual
>>
Doris Sonnerpuck - Mon, 06 Apr 2015 04:08:13 EST ID:6AkftJe3 No.12056 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1428307693772.jpg -(510804B / 498.83KB, 1280x1146) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Faggy Cludgehood - Thu, 09 Apr 2015 05:59:10 EST ID:WVTGNwJh No.12058 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I read through it last night and understood a fair portion of it; it's obviously a game manual (as I'm sure you've noticed); the first one is mainly describing what you can do on the main menu; the second one is describing the properties of characters/items; I'll start translating when i'm not as lazy
>>
Thomas Sozzleway - Fri, 10 Apr 2015 15:07:29 EST ID:nAU4YyZj No.12069 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What;s the name of the game?


American Sign Language by Matilda Bindlestock - Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:17:43 EST ID:Z2HHXKum No.11914 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1418768263472.jpg -(34586B / 33.78KB, 640x328) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 34586
I recently acquired a strong interest in learning ASL and I plan to do so thoroughly and fluently. I simply took a course at my community college for elective credits and am finding myself fairly involved in not only learning the language but also in learning more about the Deaf culture. Whereas I'm hardly ready to comprehend an entire story in ASL, I am fully capable of a basic conversation with someone fluent, given they have a little bit of mercy of my barely-intermediate skills. I find that my hearing friends take an interest in the knowledge I have and the best person to practice with is a friend of mine that is mostly Deaf and nearly fluent in ASL, but also English-speaking. Practicing signing with my hearing friends is cool and draws us attention in public, but not very practical, and so I intend on using my ASL knowledge for more than just saying I can - I hope to look for employment in interpretation. I realize there is some debate about this job position in the Deaf community and whereas my instructor encourages her students to search for jobs in interpretation (and therefore becoming fluent in the language), I have heard opinions that render it more difficult for the hearing to place themselves within the Deaf community as an interpreter. Deaf people have a much different social and cultural way of relating to one another, and I am just as interested in this as I am in the language itself.

Basically the point of my thread is to discuss any ASL knowledge that the scholars of /lang/ may collectively have as well as share literary sources of ASL or Deaf culture-related material. Basically; experience, anecdotes, books, websites etc. All things ASL; I hope some people on this board share my interest. I'd love to hear of some methods people utilized to better learn ASL!
4 posts and 3 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Nathaniel Fuckingcocke - Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:42:38 EST ID:Z2HHXKum No.12021 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12019
I know about CODA, and TTY, but I am having a hard time finding a place in that world being I'm fully hearing and intermediate at best in ASL. I do actually plan to become an interpreter in the future, my studies have really only just begun though, and then I will know my place in their (Deaf) community, but for now I am really just looking for strong sources of practice/learning material. :)
>>
cursive !M6R0eWkIpk - Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:14:14 EST ID:XaB5Kl1U No.12023 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1425564854790.jpg -(62180B / 60.72KB, 609x960) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>12021
i'm wondering if you could volunteer somewhere, like a community center.
if you use any sort of video chat client, like 5kype, jsut search for ASL under languages.
>>
Albert Fattinggold - Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:50:31 EST ID:Z2HHXKum No.12024 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12023
those were good ideas thanks
>>
Nell Bommleluck - Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:01:34 EST ID:8Fc39kCN No.12043 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I wish there would be just one international sign language. That would be sick. Learning ASL does sound interesting but well, you're pretty much limited to America.

nb cause not really contributing here.
>>
Hugh Puvinghadge - Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:33:56 EST ID:Z2HHXKum No.12046 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12043
Uhm...true, but I plan on becoming an American interpreter, anyway. If I'm basing a career choice in a certain region based on language I don't feel I have any limitations. Each culture has their own language that corresponds to well, their spoken language but of course, they're not just direct translations.

A universal sign language might as well be saying we should have a universal spoken language.


Japanese: Seeking quality online material by Phoebe Pibberpark - Sun, 15 Sep 2013 10:06:37 EST ID:4MCaR4A2 No.9959 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1379253997411.jpg -(25351B / 24.76KB, 240x427) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 25351
Hello /lang/,

Learning Japanese has been on my mind for quite some time now. I know it's a tough language to learn. I might end up being put off by its complexity in the end, like many others. But I'd still like to give it a go and find out for myself. Oh and just to be clear, this desire isn't fueled by some anime craze or anything like that.

So, I'm looking for some good online material to start learning. I know there are many websites for that. So many in fact I don't know which to choose. I'd like something proper with a good introduction to grammar and all that. Not just some basic expressions for the average visiting foreigner to get by.

Thank you guys in advance, and have a very good day.
2 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Thomas Sunnerwill - Mon, 16 Sep 2013 18:27:28 EST ID:phQru49s No.9966 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Tae Kim grammar guide
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/

>Kana
http://japanese-lesson.com/characters/hiragana/hiragana_writing.html
http://www.umich.edu/~umichjlp/Hiraganapro/
http://www.realkana.com/

>Kanji
https://anonfiles.com/file/885a9bbc1d049e16578927be5b5204a3

>Misc
http://mykikitori.com/
https://www.erin.ne.jp/en/
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>
Graham Lightforth - Mon, 16 Sep 2013 20:04:37 EST ID:c6hl5F2A No.9967 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I downloaded a textbook called Genki. Im using it right now to learn Japanese. It has lessons in it that slowly bring you into the language. Im up to lesson 9 now and my Japanese is definitely improving.
>>
Edward Bleshfield - Wed, 18 Sep 2013 09:00:40 EST ID:TM8QUwDZ No.9982 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>9966
>http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/
oh dog, that's great.
>>
Hanna - Tue, 17 Mar 2015 05:13:49 EST ID:7YtUd4Op No.12039 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Maybe these will be of help? :)

Learn one Japanese word a day! The word comes along with its picture, pronunciation, translation and sample sentences. Learning one word takes nothing but your Japanese will build up over time without any hard work.

This is your non-stop source of new and relevant Japanese words to learn as new words keep being updated! These lists are based on holidays, current events, practical topics, which are extremely useful for real-life conversations.

Learn the most basic 100 words with this list. Simply review the words, listen to the audio pronunciation and repeat out loud. These words are must-know for basic conversations.
>>
Fucking Duckstone - Mon, 23 Mar 2015 08:37:30 EST ID:0tyNYdEl No.12041 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12039
not sure why this was bumped when the last post was in 2013. For all we know, OP might have nailed down the basics of Japanese by now.

I never used japanesepod101 because I don't want to pay money to learn a language. I use Tae Kim for all my grammar and I use Anki flashcards along with downloaded decks to get my listening comprehension skills up. That way I don't need to spend money to learn Japanese and that works for me to.


Language learning tips by Barnaby Dillyforth - Fri, 06 Mar 2015 18:40:11 EST ID:Hu58Kckd No.12027 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1425685211091.jpg -(18803B / 18.36KB, 550x550) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 18803
Let's post some extra tips on how to git gud at your languages aside from the initial learning:

>Change account settings on online sites to display stuff in your language (e.g. facebook)
>Find places online where people are looking to chat
>>
Wesley Hubberway - Sat, 07 Mar 2015 18:55:22 EST ID:+e6ryqhi No.12028 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Also try Supermemo
http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_wozniak?currentPage=all

This guy invented it to help him learn English. Another way to do this is work through a language book, then at set intervals refresh your knowledge by going back and reviewing key concepts so it becomes long term memory and you don't forget it all within 30 days. Watching TV/Movies in that language will also help or watching all your movies with foreign language subtitles.
>>
Samuel Dimmerdudge - Sun, 08 Mar 2015 22:10:15 EST ID:+sAsuDcV No.12029 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12028
Are you from the distant past? There's a lot of free spaced repetition software out there. Anki comes to mind.
>>
Albert Piddlenuck - Mon, 09 Mar 2015 16:47:27 EST ID:mfqKXc7d No.12030 Ignore Report Quick Reply
man I love Ocarina of Time!


Hey guys I need your help by Albert Goodworth - Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:09:25 EST ID:ALuaElvY No.12017 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1424891365805.jpg -(157272B / 153.59KB, 858x784) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 157272
I have no idea if this is the right place for this. I figured some japanese speaking people would be on this board.

Can somebody translate the text in my picture please? Possibly somebody with some knowledge of biology but any help is appreciated.
>>
Charles Fanville - Thu, 05 Mar 2015 04:23:20 EST ID:0tyNYdEl No.12022 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>12017
My Japanese is good enough that I can understand the grammar but I don't know any of that Kanji. If you had a version with furigana I could translate it.


GREEK / ELLNVIKA by Eugene Budgedin - Fri, 02 May 2014 01:40:17 EST ID:SRz+MrWT No.11331 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1399009217791.jpg -(805260B / 786.39KB, 1920x1080) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 805260
Any advice for learning Greek?
1 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Hugh Hebbertork - Sat, 19 Jul 2014 07:41:34 EST ID:SRz+MrWT No.11547 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11333
yea im learning modern. Do you know any good resources I could use or where I could get any literature in the language?
>>
Walter Blibbersten - Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:35:43 EST ID:SRz+MrWT No.11598 Ignore Report Quick Reply
can anyone else help?
>>
Cyril Pirringledging - Mon, 11 Aug 2014 22:30:11 EST ID:hV/j9IGo No.11605 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'll ask this here instead of starting a new thread.

How does Greek transliterate foreign sounds? I tried Google, but no luck.
>>
Lillian Papperfetch - Fri, 20 Feb 2015 22:14:58 EST ID:SRz+MrWT No.12009 Ignore Report Quick Reply
bump
>>
Albert Fidgefoot - Wed, 25 Feb 2015 03:29:27 EST ID:Z1v+SCTB No.12015 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11605
Usually

p t k = pi, tav, kappa
b d g = mu+pi, nu+tau, nu+kappa
tch = just ts, but sometimes kappa + front vowel
dj/j = dz, ntz, sometimes gamma + front vowel
f th s sh x = phi, theta, sigma, sigma+iota or a front vowel, chi
v z zh h = beta (vita), zita, zita + iota, asperus or chi or 0
m n ng = mu, nu, nu+gamma
r, l = rho lambda
w = omicron upsilon
y/j = iota, eta, or epsilon

i = iota, eta, epsilon, or ipsilon (upsilon)
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.


Fluency. by cursive !M6R0eWkIpk - Mon, 19 Jan 2015 15:54:37 EST ID:XaB5Kl1U No.11961 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1421700877526.jpg -(18826B / 18.38KB, 350x238) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 18826
How do you define "fluency?"
Do you make distinctions between "conversational" and "fluent?"

>Here's what Google spits back when searching "fluent definition"
flu·ent
ˈflo͞oənt/
adjective
adjective: fluent

(of a person) able to express oneself easily and articulately.
"a fluent speaker and writer on technical subjects"
synonyms: articulate, eloquent, expressive, communicative, coherent, cogent, illuminating, vivid, well written/spoken
"a fluent campaign speech"
antonyms: inarticulate
(of a person) able to speak or write a particular foreign language easily and accurately.
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
5 posts and 2 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Oliver Forrynodging - Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:33:08 EST ID:6mW8O8BP No.11982 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1422383588823.jpg -(52287B / 51.06KB, 220x320) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>11961
it's really simple. what you're asking for is to define proficiency, which you can do here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale

however, one can be proficient and not fluent. fluency generally applies to speaking, which is the most difficult of the three parts of language for people to grasp. i believe fluency is exactly as google defines it - speaking or writing, i.e. formulating your own independent thoughts easily, accurately, and naturally. this is much more difficult to do than being a proficient reader or listener
>>
Fanny Sommlesare - Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:11:13 EST ID:7eexnvjt No.11985 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11982
>i believe fluency is exactly as google defines it - speaking or writing, i.e. formulating your own independent thoughts easily, accurately, and naturally. this is much more difficult to do than being a proficient reader or listener
I think writing is much easier than speaking. Speaking involves very little thought process, it just happens naturally. Writing does require thinking, which makes it easier for the student because they have time to think about which verb form to use, the proper word order, etc.

Let's consider the etymology of the word "fluent." In Latin, "fluens, fluentis" means "flowing." To me, this implies speaking spontaneously without stop, or with minimal stopping since we pause every now and then, while simultaneously being pleasing to the ear. Even listening is a flowing process, because if one is truly fluent they should be able to keep up in a conversation without being dragged behind trying to figure out what the person is saying. But, on the other hand, reading and writing aren't as spontaneous as these processes. Perhaps one can be a fluent reader and writer if they are said to be able to read and write without looking up words in a dictionary, though.

So in short, I think speaking and listening are the primary considerations for being fluent. Reading and writing are secondary.

ALSO, the concept of linguistic competency might be of interest to people here. T

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_competence
>>
Augustus Blendlewater - Wed, 28 Jan 2015 03:45:16 EST ID:6mW8O8BP No.11986 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1422434716576.jpg -(228253B / 222.90KB, 400x600) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>11985
i've gotta disagree. i get what you're saying and maybe it varies from person to person but statistically it is accepted that listening and reading are easier to master than speaking and writing. yes fluency refers to flow, i guess i could see how one could apply it to listening or reading but i can't see how in the real world anyone would claim to be a "fluent reader of xyz language". perhaps writing isn't as spontaneous as speaking, but it still deals with production of ones own thoughts in a target language. reading and listening are merely processing information that already exists. and while one could theoretically be "fluent" in a language by the strict definition and still lack proficiency, true fluency has a lot to do with proficiency as well, like having a broad and accurate vocabulary rather than relying on circumlocution or knowing certain levels of speech that would be appropriate in different situations.

here's some more detailed breakdowns of the ILR scale, for anyone interested
http://www.govtilr.org/skills/
>>
Sidney Hoblingbone - Sat, 14 Feb 2015 17:19:01 EST ID:RYQ9LXTa No.12001 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11986
>www.govtilr.org/skills/
That's one ugly site... I'm betting you have to be full-on ameribear to like it.

>statistically it is accepted that listening and reading are easier to master than speaking and writing
I gotta agree with this. It's always harder to produce something than it is to merely experience something.
>>
Simon Bannerchedge - Sun, 22 Feb 2015 10:42:41 EST ID:hL/5FZ6b No.12014 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1424619761381.jpg -(262895B / 256.73KB, 492x372) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>12001
yes, it is indeed ugly but the content is there describing fluency


Novels in Spanish for reading comprehension. by Molly Mezzledock - Sun, 14 Dec 2014 15:13:35 EST ID:KJu4J5EH No.11901 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1418588015289.jpg -(18519B / 18.08KB, 264x264) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 18519
Hey guys,

I speak spanish quite well. I lived in a spanish speaking country for a number of years, but am now back in Canada now where they are not very many Spanish speaking people.

I am looking for a couple of intermediate novels to read, not something with a lot of the tenses you only find in high level literary works, just something to read before bed to keep my reading comprehension up.

I recently read "The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway in Spanish, something along those lines.

Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks!
3 posts and 1 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>>
Matilda Dasslemodge - Thu, 01 Jan 2015 17:46:52 EST ID:lzcV9T6g No.11939 Ignore Report Quick Reply
El Viejo que Leida Novellas de Amor is really really good. Also there's a decent book, originally in spanish, about the Haitian revolution, but I can't think of the name right now. Somthing about Kingdoms.
>>
Nigger Furringlatch - Fri, 02 Jan 2015 02:21:28 EST ID:sPwTzU+z No.11941 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Herman Hesse's Demian is an easy read.
>>
Samuel Brupperridge - Tue, 06 Jan 2015 19:13:00 EST ID:5rSHWso6 No.11950 Ignore Report Quick Reply
el Aleph or any collection of shortworks from Jorge Luis Borges, he's my favorite author

I recommend reading plays if you can get into them, because they're extremely accessible. Ariel Dorfman is a decent playwright. Modern Spanish rendering of Conde Lucanor stories would be good since they're short fables with relatively simple prose.

I'm currently reading The Motorcycle Diaries and I'll admit it's a challenging read, but if you're committed to it it'll do you well. It's just the Argentine slang that's a bitch.
>>
cursive !M6R0eWkIpk - Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:57:55 EST ID:XaB5Kl1U No.11968 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1421719075497.png -(46982B / 45.88KB, 1342x527) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>11941
translated from german to spanish or german to... english to spanish?
german and spanish don't seem to jive too well for native speakers of each.
>>
Lydia Gubbleworth - Wed, 28 Jan 2015 10:14:16 EST ID:P/Qs0eHF No.11987 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>11901
I'd suggest reading something from a spanish speaking author, not a translation. Not that it'll be easier, but I always find it somewhat more satisfactory reading an original than a translation

Here are some easy authors you can begin with:
Horacio Quiroga: he wrote short, horrible tales, like the Edgar Allan Poe of South America. I strongly suggest you read La gallina degollada from Cuentos de amor, de locura, y de muerte.

Julio Cortazar. Well reknowned author, he wrote some pretty strange books (Rayuela for example), I think he even won a Nobel prize. I suggest you also read some of his short stories, they're somewhat kafkian: really short, concise, and surreal; check out "Instrucciones para subir una escalera".

If you're for something a bit longer you can check out Ernesto Sabato's El tunel, it's about 100 pages long, but it's not that complicated (I think). It's like a mash up between Bukowski and Dostoievski, though not as good as either of them.

Garcia Marquez is also pretty cool and easy to read, but I don't find him quite as interesting as these other authors. Ohh, and Borges is the best, but he's not an easy read at all, I don't suggest him as a first read.


franco-phoney by Augustus Bevingspear - Sat, 06 Dec 2014 15:21:04 EST ID:MxuHFgw1 No.11890 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1417897264067.jpg -(8214B / 8.02KB, 200x174) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 8214
j'ai honte, je ne peux plus parler français. non seulement est-elle maintenant ma troisième langue, mais c'est vraiment honteux quand j'essaie de parler avec quelqu'un et ne peux pas dire même certains mots très simples (par exemple, je pouvais pas trouver le mot "vite" il y a deux jours quand je faisais un effort de discuter en français avec un québécois)

donc, aidez-moi les mecs, allons-y créer un thread où on peut parler de n'importe quoi en français. tu peux corriger les fautes, ou pas, c'est à choix

dis-moi
où tu-vis?
et, je sais pas.. quels films francophones est-ce que tu recommandes?
>>
Charles Hettingtore - Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:24:00 EST ID:nkd0TrwG No.11984 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Je vais t'aider à corriger les fautes.

>non seulement est-elle maintenant ma troisième langue
"est-ce là" plutôt que "est-elle". Mais c'est assez formel, tu pourrais simplifier:
>Non seulement c'est ma troisième langue

>et ne peux pas dire même certains mots
et [je] ne peux même pas dire certains mots
C'est plus facile à comprendre si tu répètes le "je".

>je pouvais pas
je ne pouvais pas
Si tu veux être un peu plus formel.

>je faisais un effort de discuter
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.


<<Last Pages Next>>
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.