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Catalonian Independence by Martha Semmerford - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:42:41 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.162379 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1507765361879.png -(25643B / 25.04KB, 2000x1333) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 25643
https://www.yahoo.com/news/high-security-ahead-key-catalan-parliamentary-address-071745624.html

After trying for years to get an official referendum on independence from Spain, the Catalan province called their own referendum not sanctioned by Spain. Spain came down with an iron fist by closing polling locations, intimidating would be voters, and with brutality by riot police.
The referendum results were that the people of Catalan wanted to leave Spain, though there wasn't a huge turnout (whether that's because of intimidation by Spain or the people being unsure isn't known).
Today the president of Catalan put the official declaration of Independence on pause in order to give the Spanish government a chance to negotiate, to avoid tensions and a probable massive fisting from Spain.

What do you guys think will happen in the coming weeks? If Catalan does declare independence what do you think Spain's response will be?
>>
Walter Shakewell - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 21:41:31 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162385 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>If Catalan does declare independence what do you think Spain's response will be?

Cut everything off. Power, water, communications. Cite that UDIs are illegal in EU and UN rules to shut them up, and rot them till they come back.
>>
Fucking Duckstone - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:43:27 EST ID:2fJQ/aQA No.162431 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162379
Great. Now we have the makings of a civil war in Spain. Sure is 1930s all up in this here planet of ours...
>>
Doris Nickleshaw - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:11:16 EST ID:JHXY9sq8 No.162432 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162431
Spain ain't backing down. Seems likely.
>>
Polly Nunkinhit - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:19:30 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162433 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162432
Catalan has zero international support, it ain't fighting a war.
>>
Simon Brorryfire - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 05:15:08 EST ID:DTJRk/wK No.162434 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162431
That's highly unlikely
>>
Charles Dagglestidge - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 05:45:58 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.162435 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162433
You're right. They shouldn't have put everything on pause and let their international sympathy run dry.
>>
Polly Nunkinhit - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:01:27 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162441 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162435
It's already run dry. It was never there to begin with. Spain is part of the EU and NATO. No nation is going to openly supporting them with anything more then Tut-tuts for Spain. Hell, its so easy to charm Trump that Spain could likely get him to send in the drones and Airforce.
>>
Emma Pundleridge - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:13:39 EST ID:bXC2L/wO No.162442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162441
yeah this. not even trying to say whether their UDI is right or wrong, but Catalonia just has no support to make this work. even beyond Spain's organizational affiliations or EU/UN rules, other nations (that actually matter) won't be able to support it because of other separatist movements they're worried about/have to politick around.

for instance supporting Catalonia would mean having to tacitly accept the Crimea situation with Russia (not withstanding the argument that the voting was fake as fuck), along with their other territorial ambitions (Transinistria, Abhazia, South Ossetia, Donbass/Novorossia, etc.), should it reach that point. meanwhile Russia can't support it either because it would lend credence to the Chechen independence movement and Kosovo and such.

there's pretty much no country out there that stands to benefit from supporting Catalonian independence, barring other regions that are trying to achieve the same thing. the only country that i thought maaaybe could was Ireland but even they said no (not all that surprising with how they benefit from being in the EU).

so yeah, sorry Catalonia. at least the world is now aware that you hate the rest of Spain, and will probably treat you guys as being different than your ordinary Spaniard.
>>
Jenny Denderfuck - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 22:54:41 EST ID:dbM7KxGC No.162447 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162442
This is a pretty stupid argument. Supporting one separatist movement means you automatically support every separatist movement everywhere? Lol, give me a break. Russia would be willing to welcome Catalonia with open arms considering most of the trade Russia does with Spain is concentrated in Catalonia anyway.
>>
Jenny Shakefuck - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 00:40:50 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162449 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162447
>This is a pretty stupid argument. Supporting one separatist movement means you automatically support every separatist movement everywhere?

It basically does. If there is no difference, why do you not support this one, but support this one? It puts you in a bad spot that you don't need to be in.
>>
Jarvis Paggleville - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 00:58:07 EST ID:OBWIAo4y No.162450 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162449

Plenty of nations also denounce terrorism and then practice it. If they want to support an independence movement it will be the money that prevents them from doing so, not any kind of dedication to avoiding hypocrisy in national policy.
>>
Phoebe Geblingfudging - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 01:52:23 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.162451 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162449
>why do you support this one but not this one?
Because Spain has hardly changed since Franco was in power. It's just different people but the same act. Actually some of Franco's family members are still in power. They have plenty of reason to wish to leave. By supporting Madrid in this, you essentially support fascism, especially when you look at the way Spain has gone about this.
>>
Ebenezer Challermen - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 10:15:43 EST ID:ojjwPRrO No.162454 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162447
historically that is how support for independejcd movements has worked. only in cases where there is sufficient political gain for one side or the other would a nation recognize independence like this, e.g. kosovo for the west, breakaway regions for russia.

in fact it's uncommon for countries to recognize independence referendumsnin genefal unless their parent country or the UN sanctions it. like said, they're not going to recognize it unless there's political gain in it. hence all the current unrecognized breakaway regions in the world.

just watch. who has recognized the independence referendum so far? as far as a i know, so far none.
>>
Nicholas Darthood - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:00:33 EST ID:dbM7KxGC No.162524 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162449
No, this is fucking retarded. Say for example you support democracy. You would support a separatist movement that promises to bring democracy to a country ruled by a despotic dictator. However, if there's a separatist group in a democracy that is centered around installing a fascist dictator, you wouldn't support them. This is just one of the largest and most obvious examples, but it's not the only one, there are tons. Not every separatist movement is the same. I can't believe I have to explain something so fucking basic to you.
>>
Walter Purryshaw - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:23:45 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162526 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162524
Thats a very idealistic worldview. If the wana-be fascists were willing to give you want you want or need, they'd get their support in a heartbeat. Look at all the breakway republics that are far worse then the nation they broke from. All because they were willing to give something to a power to get at least De-facto independence. RE all those post soviet breakaways Russia cultivates.
>>
Nicholas Darthood - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:35:39 EST ID:dbM7KxGC No.162527 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162526
Yeah, okay, so that also supports my point. The decision to support or disavow a separatist movement is political. You don't just give out blanket support or blanket disavowal to all groups. Jesus Christ you're a fucking retard, you can't even argue your own point.
>>
Walter Purryshaw - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 17:30:36 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162540 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162527
Calm down friend, no need to get your jimmies rustled
>>
Hannah Pittstock - Wed, 18 Oct 2017 01:31:33 EST ID:CgCM1jv+ No.162557 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>162527
I think he was arguing it was the other way around, separatist movements don't come from people saying "Yeah, <insert ideology> is cool, lets start a revolution!" but are a response to material conditions and local issues, and simply adopt ideology out of expediency.

Look at all the countries communist parties that adopted Marxist-Leninism when doing so meant soviet funding and not doing so meant getting replaced by those who did or the Ho Chi Mihn seeking US support against the US-backed government, then deciding to be communist when the US turned them down.
>>
Lillian Hannergold - Sat, 21 Oct 2017 15:44:18 EST ID:0nH0Cptj No.162661 Ignore Report Quick Reply
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/21/559218097/spanish-prime-minister-takes-unprecedented-step-to-dissolve-catalan-government

>Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy announced Saturday that he was invoking a provision in his country's constitution that allows him to suspend and overtake the regional government of Catalonia as part of his effort to quell its secessionist movement.

>"I am firing the Catalan regional president and all Catalan government ministers," Rajoy told reporters after a emergency meeting with his Cabinet in Madrid that lasted more than two hours earlier Saturday, as NPR's Lauren Frayer reported to our Newscast unit.

>The prime minister also said he would call for new elections in Catalonia within six months.

>Rajoy's use of the so-called "nuclear option," Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution, which allows the central government to strip power from any Spanish region acting illegally, was a first for the country's 39-year-old democracy.

>The prime minister's move Saturday is not the final step in a chain of procedural requirements. Spain's Senate must first vote on his plan next week. However, with the Senate operated by Rajoy's party, the measure is widely expected to pass.
>>
Esther Nazzletet - Sat, 21 Oct 2017 18:34:06 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162680 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162661
Spain doing all it can to boost Catalonian independence.
>>
Phyllis Bimblenet - Sat, 21 Oct 2017 20:31:01 EST ID:MBoLWmcK No.162706 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162527
This board has managed to attract a number of people that completely lack any capacity for nuance.
>>
Thomas Hebberstune - Sun, 22 Oct 2017 08:32:31 EST ID:7bd2zbBh No.162724 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Catalonia BTFO

VIVA ESPANA VIVA EL REY
VIVA EL ORDEN Y LA LEY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0WNUkttco
>>
Basil Crevingpet - Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:47:01 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.162736 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162661
Turning the secessionist leader into a political martyr.
It's funny how politically naive Spain is. Either that or they just do not give a fuck about coming off as totalitarian fascist fuckers.
>>
Charlotte Chunkinpock - Sun, 22 Oct 2017 16:57:41 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.162744 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162736
Both sides are looking awful. Catalonia looks half cocked and has no clue what its doing, and Spain looks like Jackboots, and doesn't seem to care its following the worst examples of Franco.
>>
Henry Bembleham - Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:42:09 EST ID:zhjUDfzM No.162750 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162744

Spain is jackboot. They make American police look like nerds when it comes to protesters. They replace mass arrests for putting people in comas with their clubs. God bless them.
>>
Fucking Pittfield - Mon, 23 Oct 2017 08:17:18 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.162760 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162744
It's true that Catalonia does kinda come off as half cocked, but to be fair, they've been trying for a long time through the proper channels only to be constantly cock blocked.
This was basically their best bet. But a lot more people would be more supportive in Catalonia if they had more of an idea of what it would be like if they did leave. They need to have a constitution and everything in line before they do anything.
>>
John Manningbury - Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:12:19 EST ID:n+LHOBY1 No.162761 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Catalan authorities will not follow orders from the Spanish government if Madrid moves to reassert control over the region, a senior official says.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41719081
>>
Nathaniel Lightstock - Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:35:06 EST ID:Cv8L7+Fh No.162767 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>162761
lol, means nothing, they have no army and the catacuck police force isn't even unified in seperatism.

What a pathetic display this virtue signalling has been
>>
Fucking Pittfield - Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:12:21 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.162776 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162767
you need to go back
>>
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 19:01:04 EST ID:xSHBzFB3 No.163243 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162433

>as if the Russians aren't supporting this movement online

c'mon man, really?

They are totally involved in this stuff. It's the same as the Brexit.
>>
Simon Pickhood - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 19:38:42 EST ID:CgCM1jv+ No.163244 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>163243
Is it?
It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but this would be the only non-rightwing separatist movement they've supported.
If they were, I'd expect to see more support for other non-rightwing separatist movements, such as Kurdistan, North Ireland, Scotland, and those Eskimos in norway/sweden.

Shit, they're even bombing the Kurds even though a free Kurdistan would be a problem for Iraq and Turkey, therefore NATO.
>>
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 20:34:40 EST ID:xSHBzFB3 No.163250 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>163244

It destabilizes the region and weakens the EU/Europe as a whole.

Why on earth wouldn't they support it?

It goes way beyond ideology, though that aspect definitely merits more discussion.
>>
Fucking Bardstone - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 00:00:46 EST ID:w4G8ki2H No.163257 Ignore Report Quick Reply
One part of me agrees that they should be given independence although the other part of me doesn't. I look at it as if I was in Spains shoes, for example what if a big state wanted to break off against our will? We wouldn't allow it, we would claim it was illegal, and we would do everything in our power to stop it. So with that in mind it's hard to blame Spain's reaction and methods when in reality any country would do the same if faced with secession.
>>
Simon Pickhood - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 00:43:53 EST ID:CgCM1jv+ No.163259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1510206233968.png -(105568B / 103.09KB, 1049x1006) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>163250
A reason it would be in their interest to do so is not proof they are doing so.

Large organizations are ponderous things full of individuals several degrees removed from the purpose of their actions, often working at cross purposes.

It takes work to integrate Russian propaganda outlets into a country's political discourse, they haven't spent as much time connecting to Spanish-speaking leftist news networks as they have to English-speaking right-wing networks.

It's quite possible they have tried, would like to but don't have the means to support Catalonian independence, or have a different analysis (a threatening independence movement in Catalonia decreases the likelihood of EU support of Scotland/NI's independence, which would be far more detrimental to a larger rival of Russia's) and see Catalonian independence as undesirable or not worth the resources to support.
>>
James Neblingdock - Sat, 11 Nov 2017 14:46:37 EST ID:hz6aDQXv No.163298 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162433
Assange shills for them any chance he gets
>zero int support
>>
Fanny Crishpudge - Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:21:47 EST ID:+5q0zMgm No.163315 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>163298
Assange will shill for anyone who wants to stir the pot. Even Trump.
>>
Wesley Choffingpure - Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:09:35 EST ID:EtddxFu8 No.163326 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>162385
damn Walter, who hurt you?
>>
Fanny Dummertit - Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:24:43 EST ID:zK/apcKz No.163327 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>163326
Uh... he's not saying thats what he wants to do, he's saying thats what Spain will do, and he was basically right.
>>
Phineas Blytheshaw - Mon, 13 Nov 2017 01:51:23 EST ID:9JeARMnq No.163339 Ignore Report Quick Reply
looks like spain put the boot down. pudgiemont is in "self-imposed exile" in belgium and is wanted to appear in spanish court, as are several other officials. meanwhile spanish pm "touring" catalonia ahead of snap election next month


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