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Sandwich


Kirtaner & Spardot's 420chan Wedding

To all guests, live viewers, and our Internet family, THANK YOU.
VODs will be edited soon, we are all so tired.
Wedding Gifts
6 years vegetarian; finished by Georges Blanc - Thu, 03 May 2018 23:20:33 EST ID:l5IYMAE/ No.155204 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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So I was vegetarian for 6 year straight until this week pretty much. I was never against the principle of eating meat, I've always held it normal and natural to eat meat and fish, we are omnivores after all. But it was the practice that bugged me, the factory farms. If all meat and fish could be hunted by oneself I would've never changed.

But starting last week I just realized I don't really care anymore. Of course I still do care about the environment but I have to say I am a lot more apathetic. I'm bored of the vegetarian diet, I don't really want to live the rest of my life without ever tasting some flesh again. I've always been the type of person that says you only live once so why deny all the luxuries that life has to offer and now I feel it's no different to meat. Yes it does suck that the environment is harmed in the process but I'm also harming the environment when I spray deodorant on myself, when I drive my petrol burning motorbike, when I throw some non-recyclable plastic into the rubbish. It's unavoidable, the society we live in is inherently harmful to our planet and it fucking sucks but not eating meat isn't going to solve that. I'm going to one day and I want to maximize my time on the planet while I can.

I've been eating seafood all week. Squid, prawns, salmon fillets, grilled tilapia, and I've been loving it. This evening I am gonna go to a steakhouse and I am really looking forward it. I just wanted to share this because I still feel a bit conflicted and ashamed but honestly I've been veering this way for at least a year now. I accidentally ate some home fried chicken a few months ago and I realized what I'm missing out on. I am a good cook so I can cook lots of sweet veggie meals but I'm bored with them. I still feel a bit nervous about telling all my friends and family (my vegan friends are gonna be gobsmacked) but fuck it, this is where I am in my life. I want steak damn it.

If anyone has any experience with being a long term vegetarian and then changing please share. I don't want this thread to turn into a pro and anti-vegetarian shitting contest.
>>
Alice Waters - Fri, 04 May 2018 01:52:28 EST ID:4DIF+Klk No.155206 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>But starting last week I just realized I don't really care anymore.
Yeah OP, like how can you change your entire diet just cause some baby cows suffer?
They suffered 300 years ago too, because people knew fuckall about keeping them humanly and effectively. Lol "animal rights" were nonexistent until about 1900, apart from some religous reasons. It was a very common and socially accepted procedure in much of the western world up until the second half of the 20th century to just knock baby kittens to death with a stone in the head if there was too many of them. (ie housecat mated with stray cats, yielded too many kittens to care about)
So overall I think in 2018, animals have it pretty fucking good you know? Yeah, it's a bit tacky with all the antibiotics and small spaces, but in general, their health is monitored, and they get medicine. That never happened before industrial meat processing, people didnt care if it twisting their necks hurt a chicken before they died or not or anything like that.
At first glance it's a little shitty to think how many animals have to die on a mass level just cause I gotta eat some mcdonalds, but still, even if it's industrialized, that's just evolution. We, humans eat meat, and there's a lot of us, so we had to find an effective way to feed *most* of us. There's nothing wrong with that. How sustainable that is is another question, and we'll find the answer later on down the line. It's not a bad thing though, and it doesn't come from the fact humans are evil and just love to watch animals suffer, it's just the most effective way in our current situation.
Killing animals for their meat is completely natural and normal as a human.
Industrialized meat processing is just part of our evolution.
>>
Raymond Blanc - Fri, 04 May 2018 03:05:02 EST ID:NGx1doOz No.155207 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I was vegetarian for just 2 years. Ideally, I would like to be mostly vegan for at least 5 days a week. I like raw food because it requires pretty much no preparation (peanut butter, apples, celery, grapes, nuts, etc).

Pic related is a pretty good read
>>
Philippe Édouard Cauderlier - Fri, 04 May 2018 05:29:04 EST ID:bnDwnI8O No.155208 Ignore Report Quick Reply
> I'm also harming the environment when I spray deodorant on myself, when I drive my petrol burning motorbike, when I throw some non-recyclable plastic into the rubbish. It's unavoidable
How about using roll-on and cologne, don't drive a motorcycle and put your recycling in the right bin?
>>
Georges Blanc - Fri, 04 May 2018 07:28:47 EST ID:l5IYMAE/ No.155209 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>155208
I started using roll on a few days ago after my girlfriend told me how bad spraying is for the environment. I live in Vietnam so I have to drive a motorbike, the public transport here is shit and I'm not fucking cycling 20km a day in this crazy traffic just to get in and out of work. I do put my recycling in the right bin - what part of "non-recyclable" do you not understand? That was at home anyways, recycling isn't really a thing in south-east Asia.

>>155206
Yeah that's it man, we have been making animals suffer since time immemorial for our sustenance, the same way lions, sharks, wolves, etc do. It's just we are highly fucking sophisticated at doing it. It is a bit grim and fucked how we do it but are there really any alternatives to feeding what is it 7 billion people? Bar the whole world going vegetarian. I still think factories should have the highest standard of animal welfare and factory hygiene (and in my home country they do) but I have to say the fact that a lot of it doesn't, just doesn't really bother me anymore. Not enough to the point that I want to voluntarily restrict my diet.

It will take some time adjusting. The steakhouse I went to today had a picture of a happy smiling cartoon cow on the menu and it made feel a little uneasy but fuck me if it wasn't delicious. Washing down some chips/fries, a black pepper sauced drenched 250g medium-rare steak with some local cold Hanoi beer for as little as $6 truly is a pleasure, one that I have no regrets of doing.
>>
Sober Sam - Fri, 04 May 2018 09:33:13 EST ID:Uo6jEKYZ No.155210 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well I got some bad news for you OP. I've been high for 6 years straight until this morning pretty much, and I hate being sober, and everything you said is wrong, and I'm in a shitty enough of a mood to tell you all about it. Ethically speaking, consuming dairy and eggs regularly still contributes to and finances the unethical practices of factory farming, so if that practice bugs you, then you dropped the ball there pretty hard. I would double check my local factory farm if you think they're operating in an ethical and clean manner (would be the first one I've heard of). Humans are not omnivores. If we were, we wouldn't have such adverse reactions to meat and dairy products, like chronic inflammation, meat decay, heart disease, cancer, and so on. We'd also have omnivorous teeth, and we'd have an omnivorous digestive tract (back to the decaying meat issue- our intestines are too long). All evidence points to us being frugivores, which is basically just a fancy word for fruit-eating herbivore.

>Yes it does suck that the environment is harmed in the process but I'm also harming the environment when I spray deodorant on myself, when I drive my petrol burning motorbike, when I throw some non-recyclable plastic into the rubbish. It's unavoidable
More stupid fucking logic. Gee OP you're on a roll today huh (okay I'm being a dick- forgive me)? It's nearly inevitable that, at some point, in life, we're going to harm the environment, however it doesn't follow from that, that we should rescind any effort to reduce said harm if we can't achieve the ideal. Whoops I spilled a little oil at the pump, better invest in fracking. Sounds silly right?

A lack of perfection is no justification to stop trying, and if it is, then you're likely to quit everything you ever try. Also there are deodorants out there that aren't so bad (for the environment and for your body). Erbaviva is a solid brand. Yes it is a spray, but instead of over-focusing on the medium of delivery, focus on the product itself, and you'll see that all of the ingredients are safe to spray into the air.

>the society we live in is inherently harmful to our planet and it fucking sucks but not eating meat isn't going to solve that.
Protip: nothing you do is going to solve that. Cutting meat out of your diet though, ironically enough, is the single most impacting choice most people can make with regards to environmental degradation. Just because a problem is bigger than you doesn't mean it's rational to ignore it.

>I'm going to [die] one day and I want to maximize my time on the planet while I can.
Annnd we're back to retarded chan logic. Living a less-destructive life and enjoying it are not mutually exclusive. Believe it or not, people tend to feel happier when they feel that their lifestyles aren't having destructive effects on the people and places around them. It says a lot to the cultural conditioning we all get if we have to have somebody challenge that view for us to consider it.

Next you're going to tell us that you put mayonnaise on a stick. I mean, Come on! Seriously?? Mayonnaise on a stick?!

...

Alright I think I got all of the sober-aggression out of me. Sorry for that OP. If you want some honest advice, from a dick like me who was a vegetarian for a few years like yourself, then here: forget the labels. You can have a positive effect on things by eating less meat, while still eating some. Why strap yourself under the pressure of swearing off meat absolutely? I eat like a vegan most of the time, like that other poster, but I'll still have an Italian Sub, or a Cheese Steak, or some Crab Cakes with Remoulade on occasion. By cheating on occasion, I get to spoil myself, as well as find out that I'm not missing as much as I might have thought had I abstained for 5+ years straight.
>>
Sober Sam - Fri, 04 May 2018 09:33:43 EST ID:Uo6jEKYZ No.155211 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155210
Double-post incoming- too big to fit in one post.

Okay back to sober aggression and wall-posting. Good news OP. The poster below you is even more retarded..

>>155206
>They suffered 300 years ago too
Pre-industrial agriculture and animal husbandry don't even hold a candle to the floodlight of suffering caused by factory farms. Old traditional farmers had substantially cleaner environments compared to factory farms and way more room for grazing (because there weren't tens of billion cows back then). Livestock used to lead good lives. That's the key difference now. Yeah cows died then too, but the quality of life is what was different. Getting to move, experience sunlight, graze, not be sick constantly. or whatever it is that you naturally do in the wild, makes you feel a lot better than the torturous existence that is living your entire life sick in a cage, unable to turn around or move at all, being fed the unusuable remains of your own species.

>Yeah, it's a bit tacky with all the antibiotics and small spaces, but in general, their health is monitored, and they get medicine
In general, their health is shit, disease is highly prevalent, and that's despite excessive misuse of antibiotics. Have you ever read about or seen a factory farm mate? You may as well be trying to append humanitarianism to the 20th Century Nazi party. Look, they gave the Jews a place to stay, and they fed them, and they keep them really warm too!

>At first glance it's a little shitty to think how many animals have to die on a mass level just cause I gotta eat some mcdonalds
>I gotta eat mcdonalds
>We, humans eat meat, and there's a lot of us, so we had to find an effective way to feed *most* of us.
You gotta eat mcdonalds because of marketing, not biology. Aside from the fact that consuming meat, especially fast food, is responsible for the massive scale of heart disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer, and thus premature death, in our country, it's also some of the most expensive food to produce. The argument for efficiency sounds silly in light of the fact that 1lb of meat costs over 100x the water and nutrient resources to produce than an equal amount of plant-based food. Add to that the extremely high waste output and significant health maladies associated with eating meat, and it becomes pretty hard to argue on the behalf of efficiency.

>How sustainable that is is another question, and we'll find the answer later on down the line.
>it's just the most effective way in our current situation.
Wrong again. We already found that answer: It isn't sustainable at all, and a plant-based diet would reduce the expenses and waste output to sustainable levels. Hell, even a diet heavy in insects would work. The current situation is not the most effective way. This notion that we'll figure it out eventually implies that we don't already know that our current method is vastly overpriced and inefficient, not to mention dirty, wasteful, unhealthy, and cruel.

>Industrialized meat processing is just part of our evolution.
One could argue that all human effects are merely part of our evolution, including the lead-painted plates of Rome and the Kuru disease of Papua New Guinea (contracted from eating certain meats in their diet). Instead I'll just argue that industrializing meat processing has not just had negative impacts on the environment and the species around us, but also directly on us, and that as part of our evolution, it is inevitable that we will move away from our current meat-heavy diets. According to the Center for Disease Control, processed meats are a group 1 carcinogen, the most severe carcinogenic rating group, along with cigarettes, asbestos, and gamma radiation.

Okay back to OP

>It is a bit grim and fucked how we do it but are there really any alternatives to feeding what is it 7 billion people?
Just short of 8 billion.

These views are manufactured within us. People ask the same questions about petro-energy. Yeah it's killing us all and the world we live on and polluting everything but how else could we ever power everything? Turns out we have the answers, both to food production woes and energy supply issues, but there are powerful industries with vested interests in stifling innovation, and so we're given massive tariffs on renewable energies like solar and geo-solar while our collective tax contributions are used to subsidize meat so as to make it not look so ridiculously expensive.
>>
Adolphe Gérard - Fri, 04 May 2018 09:42:22 EST ID:zyCcOQxk No.155212 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Did you get the shits when you started eating meat again, or is that a myth?

> I don't want this thread to turn into a pro and anti-vegetarian shitting contest.
lol, good luck with that.
>>
Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 09:47:46 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155213 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155211
Mcdonalds wasn't the point, I could've just said meat. I don't even eat mcdonalds more than once a year.
I disregard the entirety of your post because you're just a greenfag trying too hard
>>
Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 09:49:02 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155214 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155213
Like you basically imply we only eat meat cause of marketing? yeah not like evolution made us fucking eat meat since the beginning of the human race
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Georges Blanc - Fri, 04 May 2018 09:55:14 EST ID:l5IYMAE/ No.155215 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155210
I don't disagree with what you're saying. I was vegetarian for 6 years for all these reasons. I don't really understand what point you're trying to make, you're just reinforcing why I went vegetarian in the first place and like I said, I don't really care anymore. Well I do, of course, but just not to the point that I want to eat nothing but plants, beans and eggs for the rest of my life.

I'm not giving up on being eco-friendly or unaware of animal suffering. I want to try minimize my impact on the environment while not restricting my dietary choices. I'm not gonna suddenly eat and buy only processed meat. I still want to and will eat a vegetable heavy diet, and I will make active efforts to source my meat from ethical/friendly sources. As I say in my home country animal welfare is pretty good and a lot of our meat and dairy is free range, but I will make the extra effort.

I didn't really plan on this thread being a debate on ecology on the pros and cons of vegetarianism. I was kinda looking for other people who were long term vegetarians and stopped and share their experiences. As I say it still makes me a bit uneasy and it will take a while to adjust to this new reality. Who knows, maybe in a few weeks or months I'll decide I just can't and will go back to being vegetarian. I don't know.
>>
Georges Blanc - Fri, 04 May 2018 10:02:43 EST ID:l5IYMAE/ No.155216 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>155211
Like seriously what point are you trying to make? You're highlighting all these valid reasons as to why the meat industry is bad (like I say I went veggie in the first place for these motives) yet you also admit that you eat meat.

Just because you "treat yourself" every now and then to meat doesn't give you a reason to prance around on some high horse, and assume that everyone else is a planet killing monster that consumes nothing but cheap factory meat. You are contributing just as much as the next person. Come down off that horse kiddo
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Thomas Edwards - Fri, 04 May 2018 10:28:25 EST ID:thriozqZ No.155218 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Here is something i've noticed over the years. People who eat meat bitch more about people who don't eat meat then vice versa. When I worked in a kitchen and a vegan or veggie order came in everyone would scoff and make shitty jokes. That's so obnoxious to me. STFU. Why do you care what someone else eats?

It's funny cause the stereotype is that vegetarians CONSTANTLY talk about it but they fucking don't. Maybe in like 2010 when it started getting popular and was a bit of a fad. It's the meat eaters who won't shut the fuck up about it as they flex their fat arms at people every day bragging about how they ate a steak. Who cares.
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Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 10:31:22 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155219 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155218
>It's funny cause the stereotype is that vegetarians CONSTANTLY talk about it but they dont
2 posts above there is a double post lenght rant about MUH PLANTS RIP ANIMALS
although he is not even a vegetarian. sure acts like one though. look man i never try to make vegetarians eat meat, yet they always try to make me stop eating meat.
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Adolphe Gérard - Fri, 04 May 2018 11:50:11 EST ID:zyCcOQxk No.155220 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Everyone's just signaling. Everyone interprets those signals as personal attacks because diet is tied to ideas of purity in the culture.

diet+piety=diety, and eternal holywars on forums about who has been wronged more. Meanwhile, very few people are actually being assholes about diet. Most people just talk about what they eat (and sometimes why) but everyone is so insecure they interpret it as an attack.
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Thomas Edwards - Fri, 04 May 2018 12:24:53 EST ID:thriozqZ No.155221 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155219
You are one person. I hear meat eaters tell veggies to eat meat all the time. Working in the food industry I am literally around food every day.
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Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 13:03:46 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155223 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155221
I just don't give a fuck about what people eat. I don't want to hear it. It's their personal choice. I don't wanna hear how plants are so nutritous, how pork makes you gag, i dont fucking care. Just eat what you like. I don't bore you with my diet and i expect you to do the same.
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Guillaume Fouquet de la Varenne - Fri, 04 May 2018 13:10:49 EST ID:0DmOUWge No.155224 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155223
> I just don't give a fuck about what people eat. I don't want to hear it.

You're on a food board. I think you're lying.
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Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 13:12:37 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155225 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155224
It's okay here, i mean IRL in random situations
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Michel Troisgros - Fri, 04 May 2018 13:16:20 EST ID:1s3YOQ5U No.155226 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155223
We all know you care, you need a hug my friend.
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Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 13:34:54 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155227 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155226
i do man :( *brohug*
still lol i was just trying to say i hate it when im out eating with some friends and one of their gfs starts goin on about how she eats grass or some shit and how awesome it is. irritating
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Guillaume Fouquet de la Varenne - Fri, 04 May 2018 13:44:08 EST ID:0DmOUWge No.155228 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155227
Yeah, but it's going to come up at a restaurant. You said "random" situations, but that's not random. That's just people having a conversation about an activity they're currently engaged in. Helpful guide of other places people will talk about food and diet: potlucks, cooking together, grocery shopping, gyms.

You're going to church and then expecting people not to talk about god. It's your expectations that need to be adjusted, not other people's behavior.
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Michel Roux Jr. - Fri, 04 May 2018 14:12:58 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155229 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155228
yeah but it was a casual chain restaurant, where you talk about anything but the food... and also the food she was eating wasnt even vegan or anything. idk to me it seemed out of place and attention whorey
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Keith Cholewinski - Fri, 04 May 2018 19:14:26 EST ID:8eaqa6FP No.155231 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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unavoidable?

roll-on deoderant
walking, bicycles, or public transport
reusing bottles and avoiding brands which use excessive plastic/unrecyclable packaging

saying "it isnt possible to be perfect so why try the slightest bit" is just lame. Everyone having that exact mindset is what would lead to everything being fucked. you just gotta do what you can reasonably do

In this instance, itd be having meat from time-to-time, just not *every* day. Make it special. Get good stuff from a butcher or reputable vendor and do something really nice with it. I always think its awkward how people feel the need to draw black or white contrasts. Somtimes its just about manageable, sustainable moderation. Moderation is the key to sustainability and stability.

pic is an unrelated box of chocolate and salted caramel shortbread
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Alton Brown - Fri, 04 May 2018 21:20:06 EST ID:NGx1doOz No.155236 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I eat meat once in a whule (love a good greasy hotdog, though it shouldnt be that way because we dont need hotdogs to survive, inb4 "evolution")

But i dont really understand whats so good about steak, can someone explain the stereotypical american fascination with steak? Why is it something to obsess over? Its just good-tasting flesh o__0 but people really slobber over it and fork over a bunch of cash but i dont see any reason other than something like very effective (ie. manipulative) marketing.
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Franz Quixtner - Fri, 04 May 2018 22:59:39 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155237 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155236
it's not only americans, everyone around the world loves steak. its because its the meat with the most fascinating flavors and delicate juices. its pretty much one of the only meats you're supposed to eat almost raw to enjoy. its not rocket science. people like it because its unlike any other meat.
By that logic Henessey XO is just good tasting water. Just cause you never had a good steak or don't know how to appreciate it it doesn't mean it's not fucking good.
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Franz Quixtner - Fri, 04 May 2018 23:05:06 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155238 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Why do you guys assume everyone only eats meat because of marketing? There are rural areas of the world where those niggas are way behind and dont even watch tv or anything, and they have the most amazing dishes, lamb, stews, etc. We eat it because it tastes good. You don't need marketing for fucking meat, it already tastes good. Do you see commercials on tv saying "MEAT: the alternative to plants, tastes really good! check with your local butcher" or what?
If anything then being vegan is a marketing scam considering how huge of a fucking meme it has been for the last 20 years. However I don't think most people go vegan because of marketing.
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Marcus Samuelsson - Sat, 05 May 2018 16:42:38 EST ID:ovVOG0hX No.155246 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155227
Yeah that's the worst man. Like, where do those people get off talking about a diet that differs from mine? Don't they get how much that threatens me? I don't care what people eat, which is why I post here.

Oh wait nvm all of that is retarded my bad
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Alton Brown - Sat, 05 May 2018 17:12:25 EST ID:NGx1doOz No.155247 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>155238
>There are rural areas of the world where those niggas are way behind and dont even watch tv or anything, and they have the most amazing dishes, lamb, stews, etc.

It sounds like youre talking about people who live in areas where meat has been a traditional staple as a matter of survival. Most native americans were vegetarian because it was convenient (the only realistic option) - but if there was meat (fish, buffalo) of course they would eat it. No one needs television or marketing for that...

>We eat it because it tastes good. You don't need marketing for fucking meat, it already tastes good.

Same with McDonald's. We eat it because it tastes good. No need for marketing >.>

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/261382.php
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Beau MacMillian - Sun, 06 May 2018 20:04:57 EST ID:+NJAlw4Q No.155255 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155247
Lol you're not even managing to make apoint with this post. Typical vegetarianposting...

You post that graph as if it's proof that marketing is to blame for the uptick in meat eating over the last 50 years. It could have gone up 30% for any number of reasons... And your "we eat McDonald's because it tastes good" thing is a false equivalency, you fell into your own trap ha!
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Alain Ducasse - Mon, 07 May 2018 03:31:19 EST ID:zbQql8zP No.155260 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Only time I eat veggies is with my meat. Check mate doy boy
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François Massialot - Mon, 07 May 2018 05:23:19 EST ID:VkHblIEm No.155261 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155247
Most pre modern societies are predominantly vegetarian with a bit of meat where they can get it. The mostly vegetable diet gave a reliable food supply. When we adopted said diet we began to shrink (about a foot on average) due a mix of parasites from our more static lives and our less nutritious diet, but having a lot of smaller people who know where food will come from beats a few 6 foot cave men.

Anyway we've regained our old height because we can refrigerate, now we can store meat but also non meat food for longer and transport stuff around too, so everyone can get a balanced diet all year round even as a vegan.

Last thing to note is that vegetarianism or at least a predominantly meat free diet is why we have white man. Black dudes lived in North Europe between ice ages for the lifetime of several species, neanderthal was probably black too. Once we invented agriculture, ie within the last 5000 years suddenly WHITE MAN EVERYWHERE. Because we weren't getting fish oils and vitamin D and needed to make the latter using the sun.

The whole "meat is diabetus" thing is a bit of an odd issue because none of the surveys which show meat causes obesity etc ever control for factors like weight, what they eat and so on. While the bar for vegetable diets has fallen over time, until recently you had to put a lot of thought into a vegetarian or vegan diet, as a result these people have always been healthier because they think about what they shove in their mouth. Some of us meat eaters do the same but plenty just eat the default, they put so little effort in to it that they don't even realise they could eat healthier cheaper than McDs and ready meals. So they end up fat. I suspect the difference in health between vegetarians and meat eaters will fall off soon though because it's a lot easier to eat a varied nutritious vegetarian diet without thinking too hard now. On the whole most meat versus health things fail to control for other factors and that graph is another example. It doesn't account for the quality of healthcare and equality of income (well, level of poverty), crime rates, alcoholism, obesity and exercise and so on.

My point is that simplifying the issue is dumb. I think that its probably better to eat less meat and when they grow it in factories, I've stated elsewhere the moment it's affordable I'll be happy to pay a little more to buy low impact low cruetly vat meat.
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Vincent la Chapelle - Tue, 08 May 2018 12:24:26 EST ID:h97qAJ4S No.155270 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155247
Dude everyone loves meat, it's not due to advertising. Deal with it. It's not advertising's fault someone would choose a steak made from beef before they would try one made from soy... its obvious.
If anything then vegetarianism is a huge upcoming trend and market right now, so I don't see how you're not posting the same graphs with vegetarianism, i bet it increased the last few years due to its marketing.
To me it's absurd to say people eat meat cause of it's marketing, they eat it because as humans we eat both meat and vegetables. It's fucking normal.
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Raphael Ray - Tue, 08 May 2018 20:45:59 EST ID:KRTUnUQz No.155280 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155261
>The whole "meat is diabetus" thing
I kindly point you in this direction (the ADA): http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/meal-planning-for-vegetarians/
>Research supports that following this type of diet [vegetarianism] can help prevent and manage diabetes. In fact, research on vegan diets has found that carbohydrate and calorie restrictions were not necessary and still promoted weight loss and lowered participants' A1C [A1C is a blood glucose test regularly used on diabetusics]
The bold emphasis is added for anybody who remembers that weightloss thread where I argued that calorie-intake in significant compared to the power of the plantside. us star wars fans have nothing left these days leave me my pun

>Anyway we've regained our old height because we can refrigerate
Are you sure this is true? It seems like a short period of time for such an effect to be had. Modern refrigeration began in the mid 1700's (William Cullen in 1748 specifically), and refrigeration began seeing use around the turn of the 19th Century. Before that we know that more primitive forms of refrigeration have perhaps been in use for hundreds, in not thousands, of years. I'd be interested in hearing more on the topic if you're knowledgeable about it.

>On the whole most meat versus health things fail to control for other factors and that graph is another example. It doesn't account for the quality of healthcare and equality of income (well, level of poverty), crime rates, alcoholism, obesity and exercise and so on.
I don't believe that this discounts the arguments for meat, egg, and dairy products' ill-effects on human health, however I agree that classism, among other things, is an important factor in health, to be sure, and that it is both rarely ever taken and difficult to take into account in research studies.

>>155270
>Dude everyone loves meat, it's not due to advertising.
I see where you're coming from, and I agree, at least partially. Historically, lipids and salts were rare for humans, so we developed a preference for them. This makes people more prone to enjoying meats like chicken, steak, or pork, but even more prone to enjoying salted processed meats like bacon, sausage, and salami. So in that sense, yeah we have one source of meat-love that isn't driven by advertising. However, and I suspect you'd agree with this, advertising does have an impact on a people's diet, just as culture does. That's why consumption of meat, dairy, and/or eggs varies from culture to culture and so on. Not as gratifying as a black/white conclusion, but it seems rational that evolutionary dispositions (loving meat), culture, and marketing have an effect on diet and consumption rates. No doubt other things have an impact too, like availability and class, as someone mentioned earlier.

>If anything then vegetarianism is a huge upcoming trend and market right now, so I don't see how you're not posting the same graphs with vegetarianism, i bet it increased the last few years due to its marketing.
Marketing spending for meat and dairy products vastly outpaces marketing for vegan products, partially because plant-based products are not subsidized with tax-payer money like meat and dairy products are, so while it is true that people are increasingly turning to more plant-based diets in recent years, it's also true that more people are making said decisions for health-related reasons.

If the US Center for Disease Control is anything to look to (and to be fair, most other country's share this stance), processed meats are particarly dangerous to consume, like ham, salted fish et al. From what my friend says (he's well-learned in health science), something about consuming meats that have been exposed to salt is bad, that salt causes a reaction in meats that makes it less healthy to consume. He also advised me that dairy products have dangerous levels of avian and bovine natural hormones present, which are the leading causes for testicular cancers in men ages 20-35. Lastly, he warned that eggs carry many of the same hormones while also containing unhealthy levels of cholesterol (I think 1200mg was the figure he cited). Of course, this is all assuming that you're foods don't contain artificial hormones and toxins, which is rarely the case.

Since I'm sort of preaching (forgive me guys), I feel I should also point out that in the US, our water systems are underfunded and falling into chaos. I'm sure plenty of you have heard of Flint Michigan, where the US has allowed lead-poisoned water to continuously flow to residents (and if you haven't heard of Flint, then maybe one of the dozens of other US cities facing this issue), so I just want to advise you to be careful about what water you drink. If you pay for expensive bottled waters, maybe consider checking out your providing company's water source/quality reports (also look into the plastic contaminants that you can expect to find in your water's bottle packaging), and if you drink from the tap (for way less money), then look up your town or city's annual water quality report and see if there's anything in there that warrants substantial concern.

I only write all this because we live in an increasingly polluted world, and it's important to look after people you care about. My family and friends are pretty proactive about health matters, but I imagine that /nom/ is more diverse, and I don't want any of you guys to have balls-cancer, or diabetes, or heart disease, or obesity, etc.

Also check out my cooking show on CBS, Raphael Ray Show
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Chen Kenichi - Tue, 08 May 2018 23:33:32 EST ID:dLdaOzGY No.155281 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155280
Tangential subject: How long do you think it will take bacteria to evolve to survive the cold temperatures of our refrigeration units and the heat of our cooking units. The proliferation of temperature resistant bacteria could possibly destroy human food storage and preparation techniques.

That would fucking suck.
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Rokusaburo Michiba - Wed, 09 May 2018 04:40:32 EST ID:bnDwnI8O No.155283 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155281
Given that both ice and fire have existed a lot longer than ovens and fridges, if they haven't already it's probably not worth worrying about.
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Chen Kenichi - Wed, 09 May 2018 04:57:31 EST ID:dLdaOzGY No.155284 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155283
but those places weren't previously densely packed with nutrients for them
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Keith Floyd - Wed, 09 May 2018 04:59:14 EST ID:WKr9l3zL No.155285 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>155280
>If the US Center for Disease Control is anything to look to (and to be fair, most other country's share this stance), processed meats are particarly dangerous to consume, like ham, salted fish et al. From what my friend says (he's well-learned in health science), something about consuming meats that have been exposed to salt is bad, that salt causes a reaction in meats that makes it less healthy to consume. He also advised me that dairy products have dangerous levels of avian and bovine natural hormones present, which are the leading causes for testicular cancers in men ages 20-35. Lastly, he warned that eggs carry many of the same hormones while also containing unhealthy levels of cholesterol (I think 1200mg was the figure he cited). Of course, this is all assuming that you're foods don't contain artificial hormones and toxins, which is rarely the case.

Maybe in shitholes like the USA and China but in the EU we have much better regulations and our processed meat isn't radiocative dog shit.
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Chen Kenichi - Wed, 09 May 2018 05:00:31 EST ID:dLdaOzGY No.155286 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155285
pretty sure we debunked the eggs cholesteral bad thing awhile back
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Michel Roux - Wed, 09 May 2018 18:41:10 EST ID:uyJI6vab No.155294 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155285
>we have much better regulations and our processed meat isn't radiocative dog shit
According to the World Health Organization, EU processed meat isn't magically immune to science, despite your pride. The US' shitty conditions don't help matters, but that's not what was being researched when the conclusion was drawn that processing meat (namely with salt) renders it carcinogenic.
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Raymond Oliver - Thu, 10 May 2018 01:34:38 EST ID:WKr9l3zL No.155300 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155294
I don't know what your point is. I didn't say processed EU meat is good, but it's a hell of a lot better than the US, and having been to the US I have felt infinitely more comfortable eating EU processed meat than American. The taste and feeling afterwards is incomparable.
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Raymond Oliver - Thu, 10 May 2018 10:36:14 EST ID:WKr9l3zL No.155303 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Anyways fuck all your gay faggotry shit. I just had lamb for the first time in over 6 years and holy fuck it was delicious. Of all the re-introductory meats I've had (squid, prawns, salmon, chicken, pork, beef) LAMB has been the motherfucking tastiest.
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Chuck Hughes - Fri, 11 May 2018 03:11:21 EST ID:GIG8Nmo4 No.155321 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP all I am going to say is that you are very clearly being totally honest with yourself, and that is the only thing that matters in the end. "Know Thyself." The fact that you are categorically addressing these emotional and logical conflicts within yourself is an extremely positive sign of your cultivation of your inner self as a human being. Keep it up.
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Philippe Édouard Cauderlier - Fri, 11 May 2018 08:38:45 EST ID:ywf/MVuV No.155322 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155300
The point is only that EU food regulations don't have any effect on the inherent reactions that occur when you add salt to meat. US food is worse than EU food, sure, I agree. I'm happy for you OP buy let's bicker about which meat is best tasting instead. Lamb is okay I guess, but fish and chicken are master race
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Adolphe Gérard - Fri, 11 May 2018 09:22:06 EST ID:eQkEE+fE No.155323 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>155322
Chicken I think is best. It's like a savory blank slate, more so than other meats. If it wasn't so pumped full of antibiotics and shit, it would be the perfect protein for meals considering the vastness of what you can do with it. I could eat chicken every day for 10 years and never get bored or run out of new ways to prepare it.
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Marco Pierre White - Fri, 11 May 2018 09:48:17 EST ID:4T/urRcT No.155324 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>155322
Indeed. I'm just being a contrary cunt.

>>155323
Yeah during those 6 years I completely forgot about chicken. Whenever I had meat cravings it was always for steak, bacon, etc NEVER chicken (despite always liking it) but the past week I have been eating a lot of chicken and I forgot how fucking tasty and versatile it is. Holy shit.

Had some grilled chicken that was marinated in a lemon pepper sauce - divine. Put that shit into a sandwich and eat with some Mediterranean vegetables. Made home made fried chicken the next day. Let the chicken stew in some salty and smokey chili pepper juices before coating in homemade batter, frying up and serving with rice and a nice homemade tomato bell pepper sauce. That whole dish is my mother's recipe and it's something I haven't eaten since a kid. Fuck me it was so juicy and tender and delicious. Being in Asia it's hard to get a chicken to roast without it coming with the head and claws still intact so it will be a while before I can roast chicken, just been using fillets, but man I can't wait. Or I could just learn how to fucking decapitate a chicken and tear off it's claws but I'm not sure if I'm ready yet, it might even come with it's guts. I don't know.

I don't really regret eating meat again. As I say it does pain me a bit to start contributing to damaging the environment (moreso than usual) and in a weird way I don't feel as close to animals, I don't know how to explain it really. But I feel like I can't connect with an animal as honestly as I did before, when I was vegetarian. Maybe this feeling will pass, maybe it won't ever.

But I will say meat is fucking delicious and good for you (when eaten right) and I am so excited at the whole new range of dishes and cuisines I can now cook and explore. Like it's not even comparable. French cuisine was basically 100% off limits to me, as was a lot of Middle-Eastern food. I won't be home for many months yet but when I am I am gonna have a feast. Can't wait to russle me up some of dat coq au vin yes boi.
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Marco Pierre White - Fri, 11 May 2018 09:53:25 EST ID:4T/urRcT No.155325 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>155321
Also thanks dude. I do actively try to perfect myself as a human being as futile as that is. Namaste.


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