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Opioid Potentiation & Tolerance Thread/Tips and Tricks by Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Fri, 12 May 2017 15:31:50 EST ID:G7aEe9+B No.578265 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1494617510369.jpg -(44052B / 43.02KB, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 44052
This thread is for all questions concerning advice on how to utilize a current dose for your situation, construct a taper plan, boost your current situation/set up, and overall just start trying to do opioids "correctly".

>Switching to IV? Getting off IV? Switching from pills to PST, or some pill popping after a long pharma hiatus after 3 months of weekly PST and are wondering where your tolerance went?

We'll discuss tools like

>(low dose) dxm

>ULDN/LDN

>Quitting methods whether taper or CT, or switching from user back to chipper, what to take when you're off opioids to help get that tolerance down, etc.

That's my main question...

>What drugs/supplements can you consume on a regular basis to either lower tolerance gain, lower tolerance all together, etc., and which ones are for when you're using and which work all the time?

I've been using 9 years total, serious chipper (1-4x/mo) for at least 3-4 years after 3-4 years of flirting with pills. Then it's been roughly 2 years where I've dosed PST 80%+ of the days probably.

I used dxm religiously 60%+ Of the total doses for 7 years, especially the ~1.5yr of monthly 20mg hydro, before the 6 month transition into 2yrs of PST (where I stopped 30mg dxm near daily, 45mg for a rare high opi dose)

>Am currently back on dxm 30mg/day
>Am considering LDN/ULDN even as I'm tapering down/off (shooting for roughly 11 day taper rn on day 2s dose after waiting 3 days to dose day 1.)
>heard about cats claw or whatever for methadone ootentiation
>As in, should I do ULDN or LDN/dxm even if I don't do opioids anymore?

Even if I get down to half and slip, I want to know what meds I should be taking whether I'm sober or not so that I can maybe reset some downregulation or something.

Also
>discussion on ways to increase available dopamine
>exercise/diet/rest of course, but anything else for a semi dependent opi user?

I'm going to say a weird one: try 100-250ug of DNM LSD from a middle of the road price vendor with the best reviews/history/sales. Even if you didnt like shrooms even high quality indoor cubes, then try real LSD. a half sheet (50 hits) which sounds like a lot but it's cheap like $150-200, is a good first timer allotment. You can share/exchange and smoke for free or whatever.

The euphoria on the comeup is ridiculously out of place that if someone asked me do you think that was real lsd, I would say it wasn't. It passed the regent and had zero taste, worked oral or subbed. So it is/was real. Hah only got 1 left now, probably shouldn't get more as it leads to coke/Molly "people" in my area and that's the last I need.

Definitely max twice a month though, and even then you should be able to count a years worth of acid/shroom trips on two hands. The first time I did them I went over the edge and took 400-700ug of LSD over ~12-15hrs, simply because of the euphoria it induced.

I felt like my hedonistic highs following the trip (maybe for 3-5 days) were more wholesome or notable both in the present and the past.

Shrooms never really did that for me. Amphs (vyvanse last 6mo before was ethylritalin and ritalin/addy for years just for school) were better on them but the comedown was/is absolute shit after a few days, more importantly the morphine highs had something missing or empty.

>tl;dr wat do for tolerance when one is eventually free back to chipping/sober, so that when they ever use or get hooked again, your tolerance has the best shot.

1 month of pure sobriety no drugs? 1 month no opis, while on Bud and short acting benzos, has the same tolerance effect?

I want to believe that going back to just vaping potent flower and popping 1.2mg etizolam every other day or so should make euphoric highs as possible as one month out. I was debating WD w/o kratom and just picking it up later as a more "responsible" user even if it's 1-3x/ week.

Other parts want to think that dxm/uldn/obviously wgfj only work when you're on dope.

Also how does kratom effect this mix/tolerance? Anyone got sober time between use to compare with "leaf kratom-only" sober for similar periods before coming back to real opioids/extracts.?

How about antidepressants during use and/or times of sobriety? Benzos? Let's not get into synergy, just some anecdotes about personal tolerance.

I want to hear that X number of years using X per day is the point where you'll never lower tolerance/get major euphoria again. Or, that it takes X amount of years of clean time.
>>
Hunter S. Nodson - Fri, 12 May 2017 17:32:51 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.578278 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578265
Alright I can comment on a few things:

>LSD
So I also had access at one point to legitimate LSD and bought 4 tabs, still have 2 in my freezer. The first trip was traumatizing because I took what I thought was a micro dose, and it would've if the tabs weren't so strong, basically took 3/4 of a tab which is one and a half good doses. Never been so scared in my life especially since I had work the next day. Anyways, I did a proper trip off half a tab of this stuff and had the best experience of my life with my friend. AND for the few followING months after, all of my nights were insanely euphoric. Felt like my weed tolerance went down to nothing along with my opiate tolerance to an extent. It really felt like my brain had reset and I was "born again" so to speak. If you have access to legit LSD or even the analogues (ald, 1p, lsz) as they feel almost identical, I highly suggest trying it with somebody you trust. I can definitely vouch for that.

>Kratom
This has kept me in check and my tolerance relatively good. It is the only opiod I use on a daily basis and my tolerance seems to always stay the same as long as I weigh my doses. Extract is good as a treat although lately I've been dosing it eveeyday. I highly suggest Kratom as a maintenence drug as it's dirt cheap and will get rid of cravings immensely. Anytime I've had the urge to grab some opiates, I dose my Kratom and instantly regret even thinking of it. It has kept my tolerance at a level where I can still get super fucked off pharm's if I want (70-80 mg oxy to be feeling good or 6 mg hydromorphone). Been doing this for 4 years now., daily for 3.

If you can manage to get your tolerance down to about what I said, Kratom is perfect. Also, some people weirdly don't process it like others and will barely feel shit if anything at all. So you might need to test it out and see if it works for you. I'm a really weird exception as Kratom, to this day, is still the fullest most intense opiate experience I can recieve. First time I did Kratom was the single most intense opiate experience of my life.

I'd say if you want too lower tolerance with kratom, is replace your DOC with 8 grams of your favorite strain of kratom and use that once a day. It will be uncomfortable for most at first but at around the one week mark your tolerance will have been lowered pretty significantly.

As far as tolerance goes with kratom, is still fucks it up for me. Like I said I could be an exception but I was shocked when after using kratom is 10 g a day doses for a year, it took me 60 mg of oxy to even feel it when before kratom, 30 mg would have me pretty good. So it's not a miracle by any means but the agonist/antagonist alkaloids help keep your tolerance consistent instead of constantly rising, at least from my experience. Been dosing the same dose for years.

Hope it helps somebody.
>>
Sidney Dipperwill - Sat, 13 May 2017 05:12:37 EST ID:k60BOOUh No.578304 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I always alternate between pregabalin and a long acting opiod like PST or buprenorphine to get my tolerance and dependence down without experiencing acute withdrawals for longer than 24 hours. The goal for coming off subs was to take pregabalin 2 days and subs for two days and then go through a bit of WDs for a couple days then repeat. That was manageable for me and got me from 4mg of bupe a day down to almost normal but I keep taking opiates or pregabalin 3 days a week so i have some lingering post acute withdrawal symptoms. After finals next week im just going to smoke a bunch of pot for a couple months then maybe consider fucking with pills once a week like ive done for years on/off.

To potentiate doses I take a few grams of black pepper and cimitidine. It's great for poppy seed tea.

I dont know anything about DXM and opi tolerance because i had a bad experience on DXM and it turned me off to the stuff. I think that some people like taking ketamine on alternate days with their opiates to keep their tolerance low.

LSD is euphoric but I always get nasty come downs like my brain is fried and schizo so I usually drink or take benzos or opiates with LSD at least on the comedown. I get really good after glows the next day and I think that the serotonin effect or whatever helps your brain learn new ways of thinking and rewarding itself and coming out of a depressive state or when your opi receptors are screaming at you.
>>
StimLioness !!9iP9wexV - Sun, 14 May 2017 01:46:12 EST ID:QuKu0wS9 No.578357 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>discussion on ways to increase available dopamine
I think Mucana Pureirens is not only an antixoxidant but increases amount of LDOPA//...

More info
How to Naturally Increase Dopamine, Serotonin and Endorphins Depleted By Opioid Addiction
https://www.opiate-freedom-center.com/opioid-addiction-naturally-increase-your-bodies-endorphins-serotonin/

[Bluelight] Opioid Withdrawal Megathread and FAQ
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/569872-The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ
[Bluelight]Opioid Withdrawal, supplements for symptoms - Discussion
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/819174-Opioid-Withdrawal-supplements-for-symptoms/page2
>>
Cyril Crittingludge - Sun, 14 May 2017 02:08:44 EST ID:ESoPXrFN No.578358 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Black seeds oil is known for helping with WDs and lower the tolerance.
I take a teaspoon 3x a day to combat anxiety but it may also keep my kratom tolerance in check. It's also healthy and tasty af.
>>
Edward Semmerfoot - Sun, 14 May 2017 18:32:38 EST ID:Q2+TmEEE No.578381 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578278
3/4 a tab isnt a microdose

a microdose is like 1/10th-1/12th of a tab
>>
Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Sun, 14 May 2017 20:40:08 EST ID:/pAGqaiM No.578388 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1494808808880.png -(260904B / 254.79KB, 1080x1920) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>578357
Thx m8

Pic related

Very glad u could tribute

But really though, minus some actual content to give us the tl;dr, this is better.

Well I did my maintenance dose of 9oz 1:1 sn:wgn mix, and after 4 days of dosing 30mg dxm I'd say it was more notable than normal, but could be placebo/effect of dxm and morphine alone/synergies.

Going to continue down to maybe 4oz; I was thinking switch to 15-20mg dxm/day over 30 or even 45mg for long term health.

Will dxm/NMDA antagonists or whatever help drop my tolerance if I take them during pure opi sobriety though?

I want to prepare for clean time to get this tolerance as far away as I reasonably can. I want to be able to pick up Perc 5s five years from now and actually get relief or effects from them. The last time I did pills was oral 60mg oxy IR all real and I felt nothing at all, dosed my maintenance PST dose, and realized I was at probably 90-120mg of oral morphine equivalent per day, so ~60-90mg oral oxy. Fuck.

At least the current seeds are 100mg/kg max. More like 80. Damn coming off a ~60-80mg/day oral oxy habit equivalent that used to reach 200mg+?

I'm going to read more into exercise or specific exercise types.
>>
Nicholas Degglelire - Mon, 15 May 2017 01:26:27 EST ID:itPI27KG No.578404 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I just got a pack of naltrexone that I'm using for ULDN (first time here). Mixed up a batch of 1mcg/1mL concentration; the more diluted it is the more leeway you have with the inevitable inaccuracy of volumetric dosing I figure. I took 15mcg last night when I was in WD and it seemed to alleviate some of the symptoms. Had restless sleep, but at least I could sleep and with none of those awful sweats and chills that are typical of WD. Woke up feeling pretty damn decent rather than outright sick like usual. Took 20mcg with a dose of PST and that was too much as it seemed to potentiate the buzz/sedation, but reduced euphoria. Tried 15mcg with PST and that seemed to be better; nice come up and buzz with half of my usual dose. I'll try slowly building it up until I find a sweet spot, but so far it seems to be quite promising. I'm keeping a little diary for this experiment so I'll report back periodically over the next few months with updates and insights.

>>578265
>As in, should I do ULDN or LDN/dxm even if I don't do opioids anymore?
I think LDN is /most effective/ when you're taking them WITHOUT opioids since it upregulates opi receptors, creating an effect of reducing your tolerance over time. When taking with opi ULDN prevents tolly build while potentiating the effect, but this is limited by the fact that you're flooding your receptors with opioids. The reverse titration protocol that's been posted here a few times suggests using ULDN with opi and tapering opi while increasing ULDN gradually (over months) until you can hop off opi altogether. At that point, with at least 14 days of abstinence, increase nltx to LDN dosages to build your receptors back up and lower tolerance to (hopefully) opiate-naive levels. IIRC, this was for people on methadone/bupe maintenance so the average PST chipper can probably do a more rapid taper.

I don't think DXM does anything if you aren't taking opis since I've read that its main purpose is to /prevent/ tolerance build rather than reverse it. Anecdotally I can say it works decently since I take 30mg every time I do PST and it kept my preferred dose fairly consistent for about half a year, but slowly and surely tolerance built up and the high got shorter and shorter while WDs started coming sooner and sooner. One problem seems to be that PST lasts a lot longer than DXM does so any tolly prevention effect it has would only be partial. I don't even know if it works or if it's just a placebo or something.

I can say with confidence, however, that ULDN/LDN for our purposes IS supported by the research (vs as a magical cure-all for every disease under the sun). Even a small bit with opi use has substantial effects because the upregulation effect apparently occurs even after it's no longer bound to your receptors. I can only wonder how much better this would be if you took it regularly without opi. You can buy it online without a script if it's under 60 pills and that much would last forever so I highly recommend it over DXM even if it's less convenient to acquire.
>>
Ebenezer Smallford - Mon, 15 May 2017 04:13:02 EST ID:9uzRSC0V No.578410 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578404
you get tolerant to naltrexone like you would normal opiates, so will have to eventually change dose
>>
Dr. Crane !WQtw1VwZqo - Mon, 15 May 2017 04:55:32 EST ID:8D/Q3KE2 No.578412 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578388
god damn. does PST tolerance really fuck up tolerance THAT MYCH? I mean I can see how being on over a pound a day could will make 5mg oxy unoticble but does one really have to be completely off opiates for FIRE fucking years before they can enjoy something like a simple 5mg perc? that just seems too outrageous for me. If that's true I would've never fucked with this shit in the first place. I feel like if I could go 5 years without anything I wouldn't even want to try to pic up any opiate again
>>
driven !FTPgBqDDy. - Mon, 15 May 2017 10:09:11 EST ID:j2Rx3pNg No.578422 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578412
I reckon it's something to do with oxy, a small amount of oxy will just make me want more whereas I can appreciate a single codeine pill. Binding affinity, fuck knows
>>
Nicholas Nickleman - Tue, 16 May 2017 06:37:17 EST ID:itPI27KG No.578468 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578410
I can't find a single thing confirming this online since searching anything with "naltrexone" and "tolerance" inevitably brings up how it lowers opiate tolerance and no one takes this shit frequently at higher doses because it's simply unpleasant. Regardless, at the levels you use for ULDN and even LDN, upping your dose costs next to nothing and you can be damned sure that I'd rather have an increased tolerance to naltrexone than an opiate (hell, would naltrexone "withdrawal" get me high?). I have heard that it's good to take a break for a day or two every few weeks, though.

>>578412
That might be a little exaggerated, but opiate tolerance is a strange beast and it seems highly dependent on how long you've been using. I've even heard that it never truly returns to baseline levels on its own. I was off the dope for years and when I did oxy a couple times I almost instantly got diminishing returns with the same dose days apart. Like my tolly rebounded the minute I used an opi again. 150mg or so of tram would barely do shit around the same period. Worse is that PSTs mix of alkaloids makes it last really long, more akin to methadone than your typical shorter acting opi so I could most definitely believe that it wrecks tolly. I can only say that I think DXM went a long way in preventing my tolerance from rising while using PST over this past year. I still catch a buzz and the occasional blessed nod on about 8oz though nowhere near those two day highs you get when you first do it.
>>
overgrownpath !3g9OJxiR.6 - Tue, 16 May 2017 07:12:55 EST ID:TTrJ8gbH No.578469 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578412
With regular use of any opioid, your tolerance will increase quite rapidly. That's kind of obvious lol. In regards to poppy pod or seed tea, a mix of potent alkaloids consumed orally, it lasts for a relatively long period (like well over two days for every last milligram to leave) in your bloodstream. That lengthy quality is what makes tolerance increase from poppy tea so significant - even if you wait over 24hrs to do your next dose, you still will have notable amounts of opioids in your body, and this amount eventually compounds with each dose... After a while you're dosing constantly on top of an existing dose in your bloodstream even if you don't realise it. So you can see why tolerance builds the way it does with such a drug. It's the same with methadone or any other long-acting opi. It's why they refer to the first weeks on opioid replacement therapy as the 'stabilisation phase' i.e. they build up the dose of the opioid in your body at an increasing amount via each daily dose until things reach a comfortable equilibrium.
>>
Hunter S. Nodson - Tue, 16 May 2017 11:13:44 EST ID:F5HmbHQj No.578472 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578381
where I live the acid is usually retarded weak, like one tab is no more than 50 mcg. The tab I tried that on was about 250 mcg lol. I'm aware though.
>>
Bombastus !uYErosQbLM!!Mybq1UbK - Wed, 17 May 2017 21:52:42 EST ID:Lr9Y4I0q No.578539 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578472
Where do you live and why don't you go to music festivals?
>>
Hunter S. Nodson - Wed, 17 May 2017 23:00:23 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.578544 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578539
South Florida mane, and they're not my thing especially the ones down here. Once every few years I'll go though, next year I'm planning on EDC in Vegas. Either way I have access to LSD through a friend that has been confirmed 100% lsd so it's all good. I'm more worried about nbomes and 25i and all that nonsense.
>>
WIAKR+Pa !l1uVST4rME!!HOWLHoRl - Thu, 18 May 2017 08:24:36 EST ID:aWZljk6O No.578565 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Fuck yeah!!! My naltrexone came! Unfortunately, I probably can't go get it today (though I'm not 100% certain - maybe I can!), but I know that I can start on it this weekend at the very latest! Ahh, I just can't wait to REALLY nod again, and for multiple days at a time just gaawwwd yes.

So, on that note! Are there any recommendations as to what dose I should take? I'm unsure of whether I should do LDN or ULDN. I tend to take 100-250g of SN seeds per day, sometimes every two days, but not as much anymore. My main goal is to try to not only prevent my tolerance from growing any more, but to actually begin to reduce it over time (while reducing my PST intake) until I'm off of the PST altogether. Then, I'd continue the (U)LDN until my tolerance was completely reset, or possibly set to Bombastus levels lmao. From that point on, I would religiously take DXM, (U)LDN, and anything else which would prevent my tolerance from growing. Because I know it'd be extremely easy for me to get my dependency back, I'm going to write up a 2 week drug schedule. I'm going to try to find the best rotation of drug usage so that my tolerance to any one drug never grows, but I'm still able to partake in them a good amount. Actually, I'm going to make that a 4 week or 1 month schedule. Maybe a 30 day schedule lol. Something like that. Or, hell, aren't you supposed to wait three months between dosing MDMA? I think it's like one month minimum (though I have stupidly dosed like two days after lmao, not a good idea), with three months preferred? Still, whatever it is, I'm gonna figure out the best plan I can possibly make and do my utmost to stick with it. However, I'm hoping that even if I do end up fucking it up some and starting to dose opioids more, the use of the DXM and (U)LDN will hopefully prevent me from getting withdrawals, or at least not severe ones.

Oh, well if I'm going to do that, then I'll probably need to double check the safety of this. You're not supposed to mix DXM with a lot of stuff, right? Because of that, I'll be sure to only take it before taking an opioid. However, I plan to be taking the (U)LDN every day (indefinitely, for now) without fail. That doesn't interact negatively with anything except alcohol, right? And even then, I think that's only in high doses of naltrexone, and /even then/ it doesn't do anything actually harmful - it simply takes a lot of the pleasure out of drinking. Please do let me know if there's anything else of which I ought to be aware, though!

And with that drug schedule plan, I would absolutely welcome any suggestions! I want to make it as efficient as I possibly can!! By that, I mean I want to line it up so that if I take amphetamines one day, then the next day is an opioid, to counteract the comedown/crash, follow a night of drinking with a benzo to alleviate the hangover, enjoy shrooms or LSD (possibly in a microdose form) after rolling on MDMA in order to avoid the depression (though I actually didn't feel ANY unhappiness after rolling, not even when I took the dose a couple of days after the first one! Maybe I'm blessed with good MDMA genes lol), and all kinds of other combinations of drugs​ like that! So yeah, it's definitely​ a lot to plan out, and I'm going to have to do my best to take into account all of their half-lives, tolerance and cross-tolerance, interactions, etc. That's why I would welcome, greatly appreciate, and absolutely love help from anyone and everyone!!

Thanks in advance to everyone who responds to any portion of this! You're all so very helpful.
>>
Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Thu, 18 May 2017 10:09:47 EST ID:2HO0sEyk No.578568 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578544
We used to live near each other.

Down there you want DNM only L. Trust me. We both know the market. Safest thing to order by far stealth wise.

You can get 100x100-125ug legitimate tabs for $300ish on the A market on DNM. They're definitely 100ug+. I took my last tab yesterday and one tab only had my watched my ceiling warp all afternoon while I was in WD.

SoFlo is shit for anything but opis and benz. The weed was statistically way shittier, though fire could be found. You would think the coke would be great and it can be, but it's often cut to complete shit by street dealers doing 7g or less.

Off topic nb
>>
Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Thu, 18 May 2017 10:42:55 EST ID:2HO0sEyk No.578574 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578565
Hey Wiakr I hope your week has been going well. Sorry we haven't talked.

I'm going to write up some suggestions and get back to you Ok?

List the drugs/categories you would consider rotating (don't worry about frequency). For example are stims, dis, psy, Benz, booze, etc. All fair game?
>>
WIAKR+Pa !l1uVST4rME!!HOWLHoRl - Thu, 18 May 2017 13:18:00 EST ID:8BrC3YN/ No.578584 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578574
Hey! It's all good, absolutely no worries at all (though I do hope we talk soon ). I've had some personal shit I've been having to deal with, as well, but it's about to be handled! So I'm excited for that, as well!

I'm extremely excited to hear that! I look forward to it! But I'm open to absolutely any drug, at least I think so. Maybe not necessarily every drug individually, but 100% each class! Like, I may decide not to do PCP, but I'm extremely interested in ketamine (shit, I've got $25 in spare BTC just lying around - maybe if I'm lucky, that's enough to order some like of sample package of ketamine!! I haven't tried it yet, but I'm tremendously excited to do so!). So yeah! Everything is fair game! I'm actually hoping I'll be able to find a connect with Quaaludes, barbiturates, GHB, and similar shit. I'm also gonna go look into RCs! Apparently (m)ethyl-ketamine is good (at least I think that's what it was - it was some RC version of ketamine!), as is ethylphenidate. I'm also definitely going to look into MXE, Salvia, those etizolam you love so much, and other things Oh! I think I actually found an EXTREMELY good candidate for a popular RC opioid, but I'm gonna post about that in the RC thread, and do some more research first. I won't name it until I have all my ducks in a row first, though. But yeah! I'm super open to, and interested in, RCs! Including nbomes, DOC, DOM, 2-CB, 25-i, etc. They seem to be a bit rougher than acid, but each of them has its own unique pharmacological profile, and I want to experience them all!! Maybe I'll just make my way through Pihkal and Tihkal lol. Couldn't hurt
>>
Hunter S. Nodson - Thu, 18 May 2017 14:34:32 EST ID:a1WEtajM No.578598 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578568
I know, if I lose this connect I will go straight to the DNM. I do acid maybe twice a year if that, so its nbd really. LSD in withdrawal sounds like hell though, I already get pretty uncomfortable when I trip lol.

Even then, the opi's and benz are usually fake as shit unless you dig a bit. I can't stop finding fent no matter where I look its just everywhere. Everyone is trying to make a quick buck and wont hesitate to burn their friends. Its the shitty ass subculture down here of 'grinding' aka doing the bare minimum to pay your child support and brand new beamer, still living at home with daddy. Its a hell hole.
>>
Jack Brallystock - Thu, 18 May 2017 18:53:20 EST ID:GUy5SLpV No.578615 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578584
Oh man, DOC was quite an interesting experience for lack of a better word. I peaked after an hour to hour and a half, the peak felt like what 25i or other RCs would feel like, not as strong however, and definitely lacking the distinct qualities of LSD.

After 2-3 hours I had come down a bit and reached a plateau that my friend and I called "the middle." You could feel that you were "tripping" although it was ever so slight, but you also felt just about normal. Then you would get waves of tripping then waves of sober feelings. And so for about the next 19 hours, we were stuck in the middle of Maybe Tripping and Maybe Sober which for me consisted of a mild, noticeable body buzz/vibrating, strange (psychedelic) thoughts, and slight closed eye visuals.

We had taken our tabs at 11:30PM, peaked at 1AM, and then stayed in the "middle" until 8PM that night. I fell asleep twice around 8am and 3PM, both times I woke up still in the middle which is an odd experience. Personally I found the RC rather annoying due to the duration and lack of "power", I was ready for it to be over long before that happened.

Im sure though if one had the free time to take it and consume a lot of bud over the duration of the trip then that would be more pleasant. Or if one was daring, I thought that taking another psychedelic after the peak would enhance both drugs and extend the duration of the second substance (hello long ass acid trip!) but that is just an idea.

Anyways, if you do end up getting some of that DOC then I hope you will post a story here for me to read :)
>>
Shitting Clibblewore - Thu, 18 May 2017 19:40:41 EST ID:itPI27KG No.578620 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578565
Good to hear! I've only been on it a week but it seems to be working tentatively well. Do your research and read up some studies and experience reports/journals to get a better idea of what to expect. If you need help "making" the ULDN let me know and I can tell you my technique.

>Are there any recommendations as to what dose I should take? I'm unsure of whether I should do LDN or ULDN.
You definitely want to do ULDN doses (under 1mg I think) since you still have PST in your system. Anything under 1mg is usually safe and won't throw you into precipitated withdrawals. That said, it's better to start small and work up because I've gotten strange partial WD symptoms on ULDN. Nothing really bad, usually just slight nausea and a fluttery feeling in my stomach. They say a little goes a long way with ULDN and I'm inclined to believe it given my recent experiences.

I would start with 5-10mcg with PST and then increase it by 5mcg with each dose. Then at around 10PM (or before bed) take some more (I've been doing anywhere from 20-40mcg); this is supposedly the time when your body naturally produces more dopamine and endorphins. You want to give yourself at least 6+ hours between ULDN doses since 4hrs is the half life and the "magic" actually happens AFTER it's no longer bound to your receptors (i.e., upregulation). I plan an amount of ULDN for the day and then split it into two doses--one with PST and another before bed or at 10.

From this past week it seems 15mcg is my "sweet spot" for now, but I'm going to continue to up the dose and monitor the changes up to maybe 150mcg (for now) as I've heard another guy say 500mcg was his sweet spot and oxytrex or whatever that combines ULDN with oxy apparently has naltrexone amounts around 0.75-1mg with each dose which is suspiciously high compared to what I've been reading. It's very possible that oral NTLX requires a higher dose compared to IV for optimum effect but also oxytrex might have higher ULDN content to prevent abuse. All I can say is that 40mcg taken at once produces partial WD symptoms.

You won't want to switch to LDN doses (+1mg) until you've been off opiates for at least two weeks. The reverse titration protocol suggests steadily increasing ULDN while tapering your opi DOC. Also avoid alcohol. I drank yesterday despite having taken ULDN and while I got drunk, I also got a bad stomach ache and those "WD yawns." DXM doesn't seem to have any bad interaction effect with UDLN, so I take it with my PST just for the potential anti-tolerance effect.
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WIAKR+Pa !l1uVST4rME!!HOWLHoRl - Thu, 18 May 2017 21:22:12 EST ID:M/PPSQbb No.578626 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578615
Very interesting report, thank you! I really do appreciate it!

>>578620
I took 50mcg, as well as whatever was in the powder left on the plate after I volumetrically dosed the pill (which is what I'm pretty sure you did, so we're all good there! I added some vodka to hopefully keep it sterile over the next few months). I'm getting some really weird thermoregulation effects (cold sweats across my body, as well as hot prickly patches of skin), and it REALLY got my gut moving lol. PST causes constipation like a motherfucker because you're taking so many alkaloids orally and so they all hit those GI receptors, so the oral naltrexone is really getting things moving lol. It's actually really fucking good for treating constipation, though, because even though I'm in sight "withdrawals" I actually feel totally fine. However, I'm gonna dose up a bit more PST and then go finish the movie I'm watching before heading to bed. I'm really loving this naltrexone already lol. I can't wait to feel its other effects! I think I'll dose 50mcg twice daily.
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Reuben Gangerdet - Thu, 18 May 2017 22:19:21 EST ID:9uzRSC0V No.578631 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>578626
f nbombs imo. waste of brain chemicals

psychedelic amphetamines are interesting. honerstly they suck at high doses, rarely being wonderfully profound, super vasoconstriction, make my head feel empty but boring at the same time. i think at low doses they're pretty great, they feel like amphetamines but everything is somewhat trippy, patterns and ya know. some great memories swimming on DOx. also no one knew i was high. took them near daily for a summer, go great with opiates and benzos. i guess they're like a much lamer mescaline except theyre a better general stimulant
at least the 2 or 3 ive knowingly tried, dont remember which DOx
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WIAKR+Pa !l1uVST4rME!!HOWLHoRl - Fri, 19 May 2017 11:03:44 EST ID:aWZljk6O No.578690 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578626
Almost certainly just a placebo since I've only just started, but last night I nodded out harder than I have in weeks on a low dose. I fell asleep while drinking something lmao, haven't done that in ages. This morning I also took approximately 50mcg, and strangely enough I'm getting that morphine tiredness/tightness in my legs which I haven't felt since the very beginning of my use (and I didn't even take today's dose yet!!) like holy fuck. Even if this is placebo, it's the strongest fucking placebo effect I've ever felt in my entire life, and so I feel like I have to recommend that everyone here try ULDN. I am relatively confident that it'll help you immensely - it's doing so for me!! Fucking hell, I missed this feeling so goddamn much. I'm so so happy right now just wow. 11/10, seriously. This is turning out much better than I EVER could have expected.
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WIAKR+Pa !l1uVST4rME!!HOWLHoRl - Sat, 20 May 2017 21:34:49 EST ID:U8v5vglM No.578752 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578690
Even though it's only been a couple days, I feel pretty confident in saying that (at least with respect to my unique biochemistry) naltrexone in ultra low doses is no less than a miracle drug. It reverses every single one of the negative side effects of my opiate consumption, especially the constipation. But it doesn't send me into horrible precipitated withdrawals with diarrhea and pure liquid screaming out of my ass. No, it just seriously gets things moving within my digestive tract, allowing me to crap like normal (except a bit of a huge amount lmao just because I was all backed up). Additionally, I dosed something like 100mcg this afternoon (after my morning dose of 50mcg) in order to try to be able to get a boner and have sex, and not only did it work, but I felt absolutely zero ill effects. So it seems like only the first couple of doses induced precipitated withdrawals for me, and even then they were extremely mild, lasted for a short time, and were only partial - not all of the effects of withdrawal. At this point in time, I have absolutely ZERO desire to take opiates, no cravings at all (which I'm sure most of you know is FUCKING INSANE, and not at all normal for us addicts). I'm hoping that this dosing will allow me to put off my next dose of PST for quite a long time, at which point I will begin a relatively rapid taper until I'm off it completely. Then, I'll keep taking the naltrexone in order to treat what I feel I, and likely most everyone else here, has: endorphin deficiency syndrome. I'll take a break from dosing the naltrexone for a couple days every two weeks or so in order to allow my body to metabolize out the buildup of a metabolite which apparently works against the treatment. But I'll try to keep this up for a while, and who knows, maybe I'll actually be able to feel fulfilled by life like most normal people are. If I am, then I am going to go absolutely crazy spreading this treatment around as much as possible in order to help other severely depressed people actually enjoy life again. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself. I'm not yet certain that it'll work for this... But I'm definitely going to try!
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og uldn shill - Sun, 21 May 2017 00:36:20 EST ID:9uzRSC0V No.578764 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>578752
yer welcome m80
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Cornelius Pitthall - Thu, 25 May 2017 16:56:25 EST ID:itPI27KG No.579092 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Reporting in. I keep avoiding this place when I'm not using opi cause it has the effect of triggering WD-esque symptoms (likely due to conditioning).

After a little over a week of ULDN, just raising it by 5mcg every day (at 80mcg now split into two doses) I can say that it's a godsend for those with a dependence. I've managed to abstain longer than I ever could since this awful PST addiction. While it doesn't get rid of all WD symptoms, it gets rid of a lot of the craving, helps stabilize mood so you aren't just in "suffering mode" when you're off opi, and perhaps best of all it removes WD symptoms /partially/. By reducing WD to one or two symptoms rather than the full-blown hell most of us know, it makes it incredibly more easy to manage. For me I don't get the awful sweats, hot-flashes, olfactory fuckery, gastro pain, and insomnia and nausea are significantly reduced. Like my 4th day WDs felt like what would be a light 2nd day-tier symptoms if that makes sense. I could go to work and not feel miserable the entire time and I felt confident that I could keep pushing myself to abstain from PST.

>>578626
>>578690
>>578752
> I volumetrically dosed the pill (which is what I'm pretty sure you did, so we're all good there! I added some vodka to hopefully keep it sterile over the next few months).
Haha yeah alright then you did pretty much exactly as I did. Also keep your "concentrated" batch in the fridge if you don't already. Reading up on it reveals that it only lasts about two or three months max in water so hopefully the vodka helps slow down decomposition or something idk. I might just use half a pill for the next batch.

I didn't get sweats or weird temp changes, but it does give you this weird stomach churning feeling for the first few days on it.

>Almost certainly just a placebo since I've only just started
I thought the potentiation effect was placebo as well, but I'm almost certain that it ISN'T. Overdoing the NLTX can "blunt" the high or delay the peak, but I've been nodding out more and harder than I have in about half a year and at doses half of what I used to take. The come up is a lot stronger and I even get ITCHY on it; I fucking forgot what that felt like. The other day I took my nightly dose of ULDN 12+ hrs after dosing PST and almost immediately started nodding out. Idk how it works but shit works. No bullshit. It just takes time to find an optimum dose and the way it works suggests that the real improvements occur down the line.

Really glad to hear it's working out so well for you! I felt pretty much the same thing, like "HOLY SHIT THIS IS A MIRACLE DRUG." It really does feel that as long as you take it, you can easily refrain from dosing opiates. I notice that the psychological dependence is sill there, albeit reduced significantly. Perhaps I'm not using enough, but I've been careful not to overdo it. I'll try some higher doses next time between PST maintenance. I've found I can stretch my maintenance doses further and further without much negative consequence which is amazing in itself for a person who could barely manage to stay off for 2 days.
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Hamilton Sivinggold - Mon, 29 May 2017 00:36:20 EST ID:kBdCbCB7 No.579264 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>579092
but y is taking opioid-antagonist.. make better feel w/d symptoms?
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Henry Bladgecocke - Mon, 29 May 2017 00:40:44 EST ID:9uzRSC0V No.579265 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>579264
let me duckgogo that and reiterate the whole thread for you
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Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Mon, 29 May 2017 15:29:38 EST ID:8zqslJTd No.579297 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578752
Wow nice. I'm definitely going on kratom+ULDN.

4oz today as normal, 10mg propranolol+2 big bong rips of Kush n Cheese and the blood pressure drop feels good with the PST. I might just do an Ashton Manual taper started a few days ago and just CT when ever I have to get a job in the next 10 weeks.
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Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Tue, 13 Jun 2017 10:21:00 EST ID:fMNhhpMa No.580069 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578265
Update:

ULDN coming in in 2 or 3 days. Gonna report the effects.
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Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:36:41 EST ID:yMkR3gDV No.580571 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>578265
Update:

I got my naltrexone in and wish to begin taking it. I was going to start with 15ug during my opi dose and 10ug 12hr later.

Only problem is, i recently began using bupe (i got 19*8.6mg tablets). It already has naloxone in it that i Sub, snort, plug, etc.

So will

  1. Naltrexone even work or does Bupe have higher efficiency?

2. Do i have to take more?

3. Someone discuss all the little ways naltrexone and naloxone are different (binding affinity efficiency etc)

I have a total of 50mg. I doubt ill ever need more than 25mg for persi al consumption.

Can i just use the 25mg naltrexone left over to create an OD saver shot? Obviously it would be for plugging because i dont have microns.

Would this work? Could i use it in junction with naloxone nasal spray (theres no Narcan injections at this house) via plugging to stop OD?

It sounds silly but whatever can save a life.

I could even make it a 5mg naltrexone + 50mg dexedrine rectal syringe.

>how much naltrexone to stop OD? It can only help narcan with OD right?
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Edward Fullernadging - Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:51:42 EST ID:T7flwXWl No.580577 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580571
I can't say I fully understand ULDN, but from what I can see the doses are so small that it's unlikely to be replacing other drugs at the receptors because, affinity aside, the concentration is too low.

If you're already at the point where you can't get high on any amount of bupe then you could probably use that to reverse an OD. That's generally a pretty risky plan though.
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Nathaniel Gevingkag - Thu, 22 Jun 2017 23:05:05 EST ID:itPI27KG No.580587 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580571
I'm not sure if NLTX is as effective as NLX for OD reversal. IIRC NLX is much faster-acting and also has a shorter half-life. I would just hold onto your NLTX. I've read that ULDN/LDN solutions will decompose over time so you only have about 2 months to use up a batch. As such, if you have the equipment, I would suggest making only small "mother" batches to dilute for actual use.

At your starting ULDN doses, I doubt it would have much of a cross-effect. Also AFAIK the shit put in bupe is to prevent IVing it. If that's truly the case and there's little binding happening otherwise, I think it's safe to say the NLTX will work. Don't forget though, that ULDN can still be good for tolly/dependence prevention and reversal when you take it regularly. So taking it the night before will still give you those benefits even if you're going to take bupe the next day or even the same day.

You can take quite a bit of ULDN before you start getting WD symptoms, but the initial ULDN doses and adjustment can be weird. When I first started with 10-15mcg a day I got a mix of "partial WD" effects that would come and go. I'm now taking up to 400mcg a day with no ill effects and it's like it almost eliminates all the WD symptoms I used to get, save for the liquid shits, which you can take lope for, and a bit of restlessness but that's easy to manage. Like rather than being assaulted with every hellish WD symptom all at once for days and days, ULDN makes it much more manageable by either reducing their intensity or just getting rid of them altogether.

I had a near-daily PST habit for half a year but with my ULDN schedule I stop getting any WD symptoms by the 4th or 5th day. I actually managed to refrain from dosing for 8 days this time around, and was able to sleep and eat and work for all of them without feeling like killing myself. I didn't even take ULDN for the last two days and I'm chillin. So far, ~200mcg ULDN is my "sweet spot" and potentiates the shit out of my PST. These seeds are pretty meh, but I get a much more pronounced come-up within 10 minutes and I'm catching sweet nods on 6oz. I even get that long-lost next-day afterglow sensation; I haven't felt that for over half a year.
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Henry Gozzleshit - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:52:18 EST ID:ZQhl0+MY No.580658 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Wait, is DXM supposed to only be daily, or taken with every dose? I get they're the same thing if you do one big PST wash a day, but for those of us taking painkillers a couple times a day, wat do?
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Q !57aon8jsJ2 - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:18:16 EST ID:ztWD2hgP No.580662 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580658
either take like 60-90 mg of DXM poli (like delsym the extended release stuff) in the morning when you get up every day or take like 30 mg of hbr each dose. Id say the DXM poli honestly would probably work better for this since theres a more constant level of it in the brain over the course of your day, that way the nmda antagonism isnt going way up and way down all day.
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Hunter S. Nodson - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:17:47 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.580664 Ignore Report Quick Reply
hmm nobody has said cimetidine (tagamet)? What are your thoughts on that as a potentiator?
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Baron Von Feelsgood - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 19:49:45 EST ID:wHAvn2tX No.580670 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580664
Quoted from wikipedia
>Cimetidine affects the metabolism of methadone, sometimes resulting in higher blood levels and a higher incidence of side effects
I am interested in this
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Matilda Muvinglan - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:30:06 EST ID:/eSu0zdk No.580672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>580664
I've used cimetidine to potentiate erything from klonopin and xanax and temazepam to kratom and oxycontin and vicodin, two thumbs up would ingest 400mgs 45-60min prior to drug of choice/10, although I think I read somewhere that WGFJ is better and stronger than cimetidine but I dunna if that's accurate or not cause I'd totally shell out $7 for that fancy organic all-local gluten-free cage-free GMO-free WGFJ they got down at the co-op
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Hunter S. Nodson - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 09:12:26 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.580692 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580672
Yeah that's awesome I just found out they potentiate benzo's so last night was a bit surprising. I'm already very sensitive to benz so when the kratom and kpin hit me I was absolutely trashed just from .25 mg.

I heard temazepam works on cyp450 though, so not sure if that works with wgfj and cimetidine and other cyp3a4 inhibitors. It's recommended to mix wgfj and cimetidine and it'll be overall stronger than taking either one by itself though but wgfj is stronger than cimetidine as a potentiator.
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Dr. Mario !gWLn19/oKs - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:45:57 EST ID:yMkR3gDV No.580698 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580692
Yeah imo WGFJ is far supperior to cimetidine, but both are worth taking, whether separate or at once.

Id say more than 400mg cimetidine is overkill unless its a rare 100mg oxy does or something (dont go over 800mg). I usually just take 200mg, but not everyday because before i was slowly starting to grow man boobs from it.

>man boobs, never again
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James Sellerspear - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 11:48:06 EST ID:T7flwXWl No.580699 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580692
CYP450 is the 'family' of enzymes, not a specific one. The full name of CYP3A4 is CYP4503A4. As far as I can tell from available info temazepam isn't really metabolised by CYP450 enzymes (that might be what you were saying) so inhibitors probably don't have much impact.
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Hunter S. Nodson - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 13:47:35 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.580704 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580698

There's really not any directly bad side effects from cimetidine, you can mega dose it if you want. That said, I'm sure it makes the titty situation epesited to all hell. I feel you dude, I haven't worked out in about 4 years due to my injuries and I started noticing my chest getting bigger after daily dosing it for 6 months lol. And by bigger, it's flabby, so it's literally tits. Just don't dose it too often and you're golden haha.

>>580699
Thanks for the info mane I didn't know that. Ah I was reading somewhere saying most benzos can be potentiated by cyp3a4, but certain others are potentiated by cyp450 but I believe you're right. I don't see anything on it so far, but, I'm seeing something on 2c19 possibly being able to inhibit it and other benzos that act on the same enzyme group. And apparently cimetidine is a weak inhibitor of the cyp2c19 class. So it actually might work to a degree, but I was wrong in my original post about it. Here's the paper I was reading it on:
http://www.straighthealthcare.com/cytochrome-p450-2c19.html


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://paindr.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Revised-BZD_-9-30.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiu2dPUgtfUAhWByyYKHW77BrIQFghFMAM&usg=AFQjCNGgDofh-rO5P7wsqgDA1YDuJmx7Gg

It's a really good chart I just found, for anyone curious about it. Nb, ot
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Hunter S. Nodson - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 13:49:14 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.580705 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580704
Expedited*** NB
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Hunter S. Nodson - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 13:51:36 EST ID:SrJE9oy1 No.580706 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580704
Triple post god damn it, for the second part of my post, Im understanding my confusion. When I say cyp450 I mean cytochrome p450 2c19. I don't know how I didn't get that as you explained it pretty well in your post. Hopefully what I'm saying makes sense.
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Bombastus Werrywag - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:49:50 EST ID:Sw5Oohzx No.580708 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>580698
Can you take anabol or other testosterone boosting drugs while on opiates to mitigate that?


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