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Goodbye OTC Codeine, Canada by Bombastus !uYErosQbLM!!Mybq1UbK - Tue, 10 Oct 2017 23:56:31 EST ID:UMqalS+/ No.586195 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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remember to email:
mailto:[email protected]
to tell your constituent why OTC codeine should still be a thing.

It's open from now until November 8th.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/programs/consultation-non-prescription-low-dose-codeine.html

Here's a watered down version
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/codeine-opiate-prescription-health-canada-juurlink-pharmacists-ban-sales-1.4284013
>>
Oliver Buzzcocke - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:26:44 EST ID:MgCu9XRF No.586235 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>586195
i wroye a letter to trump, otc codine should be legal for responsible americans. few days later he commented on the "opi epidemic"
>>
Thomas de Queasy - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:55:08 EST ID:PpubXyqL No.586250 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586195
This happened a few months ago in my country. Lean was becoming a thing (???) amongst teenagers, and there were like 15 that ended up in the hospital last year, and then some little cunt killed herself mixing tramadol and codeine along with alcohol. Anyway, now even DXM, noscapine and ethylmorphine, even pholcodine are scheduled. Codeine requires a prescription when it has always been OTC since it was first marketed, yet it was taken off the shelves in less than a year, so the new government could make some publicity, and show how "they save teenagers from this new drug epidemic".

The result was making pharmacists angry as fuck (they're currently trying to get the ruling removed or amended), and has been problematic when it comes to treating pain, since now you can only buy APAP or ibuprofen OTC, and getting an appointment with a GP usually requires waiting several days or at least half a day, complaints have been numerous. When you have a toothache or a strong headache, or any other pain, you have to go in and get a script for fucking 20mg codeine pills. Shit sucks.
>>
George Nicklewill - Wed, 11 Oct 2017 22:52:16 EST ID:toNTkg5w No.586263 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586250
So what fuck you it's been like this in europe forever, you ameripigs consume 70% of all the opioids!
Push the brakes guys the rest of the world wants opiates too
>>
Edward Sinderwill - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 06:47:01 EST ID:kZufSItY No.586286 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586263
but dude, codeine is otc in europe

personally I'm ok with this change, at least kids won't get into opis at early age, it's harder to get oxy or morphine and most people tend to underestimate dangers of codeine
>>
Thomas de Queasy - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:35:22 EST ID:fT0fEIX9 No.586299 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586263
Uh I'm in Europe. It's been OTC there for almost every country forever. Except now it's illegal to even import and requires a fucking Rx when it never has before.
>>
George Nicklewill - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:21:13 EST ID:toNTkg5w No.586304 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586299
Point me to the european country that doesn't require prescription for codeine sweety, I'll wait!
>>
George Nicklewill - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:24:26 EST ID:toNTkg5w No.586305 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586286
Whaddaya mean?
You prefer kids to be screwing with benzos and other types of shit before codeine?
Yeah its harder to get oxy or morphine that' why codeine was a life saver lol
Fuck me in the ass for living in Europe you americans hurt your ankle a bit and get prescripition to fuckin hydrocone.
>>
Fucking Bendlecocke - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:28:17 EST ID:jTWVv36Z No.586307 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586305

yeah but us pharma prices are like 5-10x higher
>>
Thomas de Queasy - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 14:41:37 EST ID:fT0fEIX9 No.586308 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586304
France till last july, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, the UK even has low-dose OTC morphine.

Now you point me to a single country in the Western World where DXM is scheduled.
>>
George Nicklewill - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:12:21 EST ID:toNTkg5w No.586315 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>586308
In spain it's imposible to get codeine based stuff without prescription, and I remember that being the case last year so idk about spain being the case.
Uhh here DXM is sold without prescription but honestly i'd rather go sober than to get high on that dirty syrup, eww.
>>
guardian_angel !LhwrleQFRU!!fAsQkk7h - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:52:50 EST ID:HB8bHKCi No.586317 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586308
Here in Sweden DXM is scheduled and impossible to obtain, and so is every opi. The only opi I've been able to be prescribed was tramadol 50mg ir tablets but that shit's poison for me. And the ethyl-morphine containing Swedish classic Cocillana. Enjoyable if ur a opi noob..

>tl;dr prescription opioids in Sweden are almost impossible to obtain and cost a fortune so might aswell start doing heroin
>>
George Nicklewill - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:23:27 EST ID:toNTkg5w No.586320 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>586317
damn i feel bad for you bro, here in spain things are tight but you can score tramadol with relative ease.
Weird world huh? You could walk at any pharmacy in spain and get dxm wether it's pills or syrup for about 4 euros a bottle lol.
There are people that take it for that reason but they usually don't last long taking it, and for a reason.
This is some oxycodone I scored not long ago, some helpfull people in here might remember it lol
>>
George Nicklewill - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:24:48 EST ID:toNTkg5w No.586321 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>586320
Some more opi porn for ya my swedish boi.
>>
Lydia Hullerham - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:52:24 EST ID:kZufSItY No.586347 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586305
>codeine was a life saver
dude what, 13 year old kids get addicted to this stuff, it work for like 1-2 hours, it's much more expensive than other opis which results in stealing things and doing all sorts of crazy shit because guess what? kids can't fucking afford something that is 3 times more expensive per dose (with some tolerance which develops fast) than oxy in my country
add to that fact that all codeine products contain some other stuff like paracetamol (extraction my ass, no way to aovid some liver damage in few years of frequent using) or worse shit like sulfogwajacol which literally burns the shit out of your guts
I don't know any kid of that age that gets into benzos for example - it's all about availbility and how people treat this stuff, weed, dxm and codeine are socially accepted in younger generation where as speed, benzos, coke (not that anybody can't get really good coke here btw) are seen as bad and dangerous drugs so most people avoid them or at least takes them seriously
but why am I even writing about this shit? right now I hear about kids that cannot legally buy alcohol but they overdose on some fent rc because of fucked up law and lack of any knowledge how dangerous opiates can really be

>>586308
Poland still has codeine OTC, don't know if people in US are aware that this country is in Europe, not in Asia or Africa
and yeah, there are some limits about how much you can buy without a perscription but really it doesn't change anything as pharmacies still sell more, if they know you are addicted it's easy to buy 5-6 packs even though theoritically you can buy only one at time, then of course you go to another pharmacy across the street cause there's more pharmacies than grocery stores here and you do the same thing
>>
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:55:23 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586350 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586347

you're missing the point that in the US and other places, benzos are seem as less addictive/dangerous than benzos.

Benzos don't have the same stigma. And they're much more popular. We also have a pressed "xanax" bar epidemic where every RC and real benzo on the planet has been pressed into a xanax bar mold at least once. Even if your country doesn't script many benzos, I'm very surprised these bars haven't popped up in Europe and elsewhere. It's basically the downer version of E pills.
>>
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 04:06:01 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586351 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586350
*benzos less addictive/dangerous than opioids/opiates

Also I'd say they're equally dangerous for different reasons, but that opioids are more psychologically addictive from a pleasure stand point. People who would get hooked on benzos because they "dull the pain" typically only end up loving Opiates just as much or even more than benzos. I love both, but I don't consider benzos a particularly pleasurable experience. It's more chill than anything.

Weed+Benzos, especially Xanax and Etizolam, are SUPER popular in the US and arguably Canada too. Idk where you're from, but that's our culture. I would say most people are more open to trying Xanax than say Hydrocodone etc. after the media demonizing opioids.

Frankly I don't think OTC codeine should be a thing, because it's either pure and basically equally abusable as morphine apart from ceiling effects and increased histamine reaction, and if it has APAP in it you're just going to kill livers in the name of "harm prevention", or cause an unwanted caffeine dose. So the real answer is to just not sell it.

I mean yeah sure it might help some people, but in Europe/Aus etc. SO MANY full on junkie users describe how their first high was most likely CWE codeine, followed by maybe local PST or perhaps tramadol, and usually stop at dhc+codeine or dhc+PST until trying something like methadone/Bupe/possibly morphine but rare, and then eventually heroin.

Codeine is your guy's hydrocodone of the early 2000s. It was the point of contact for opioids and the opioid-naive public. Not to sound hypocritical, but if I hadn't stumbled upon entire bottles of hydrocodone and oxycodone at ~14-15, it's extremely unlikely I would have gotten into opioids so heavily or quickly. 30 pills of 5mg each oxycodone/hydrocodone, alongside maybe 30 0.5mg xanax pills, all no tolerance, was enough for me to know I'd love them the rest of my life. Maybe not exactly my firs time ever, but within 2-3 tries I was mentally hooked.

If I was born in Europe, with the genetic traits I have combined with the drug/booze abuse environment I was raised in, it's likely I would TOTALLY have cried CWE codeine at a similar age of 14-15 and the rest would likely be history.

I mean let's face it, any real level of habit/use and you just can't trust CWEs with that level of APAP. It's just ridiculous and either way this stuff is damaging and shouldn't be on the shelves.
>>
ylhcsd - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 04:33:05 EST ID:Ijm4/o+G No.586352 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586350

Bars are showing up a lot in the UK lately, they're almost certainly from the same cloth since it's not a drug thats prescribed by the NHS and is barely given on private prescription since our doctors are notoriously stingy with abusable meds.

They're usually poorly pressed, mostly pfizer branded 'xanax' style, but there are off-green ripoffs of the Dava brand with scores on the back which shouldn't be there.

Same things happening with Diazepam, the MSJ brand
>>
Fanny Cizzlechurk - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 04:56:02 EST ID:AQbER3fq No.586353 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586351
I think quite a lot of people encounter their own version of a full bottle of hydros or percs in their earlyish years and it kind of serves as a test to see what's gunna end up happening later in life when more tantalizing things begin to present themselves, almost like a preliminary test or something like that lol. I wouldn't call this a bad thing though, if anything i'd actually call people getting exposed to it early a good thing.
>>
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 05:53:38 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586354 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586353

uhh no?????

Isn't it universally accepted that the earlier someone begins experimenting with a drug, the more likely they're to get addicted at some point in their life?
>>
Hannah Blanningfeck - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 07:11:43 EST ID:M3vdxlGl No.586358 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586354
Adolescent brains get addicted easier, that's right.
>>
Thomas de Queasy - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:36:04 EST ID:PpubXyqL No.586362 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586351
Yeah, but you're better off starting with codeine than you are with heroin, don't you think?

Codeine is something people grow out of, and I speak from experience, people who get addicted to codeine, either feel their first withdrawals and quit never to use opis again (reminder that it's nowhere near as euphoric, and has very unpleasant side-effects compared to all the other opis, all of which are stronger AFAIK), or go into harder opis eventually.

I was already trying crack by the time I was taking codeine, as well as LSD and MDMA, I was smoking weed and binge drinking, and heroin becomes really easy to find and you're often offered some for free (either to chase or snort).

I agree codeine might have started my dopefeen career, but on the other hand, not stumbling upon opiates would probably have led me to commit suicide eventually. Besides, a year later, when my neuropathic pain condition was finally somewhat identified, I was treated with 40mg tetrazepam/400mg ER tramadol a day. Obviously, chronic pain opiate addicts are another story, but I'm trying to separate the pain aspect, from the auto-medication for being anxious and depressed or suicidal to post here.

At any rate, we should all be free to put whatever we see fit in our bodies, and teens have no problems getting their hands on cannabis/alcohol/cigarettes/RCs, so I really think codeine is the LEAST of any government's concern.

When it was removed from OTC sale, it turned out that 90% of codeine addicts were housewives in their 40's and 50's. Not teenagers occasionally getting high on lean when toking it up. Besides, CWE was never a thing here, the people taking codeine would take 5 or 6 grams of APAP daily and hurt themselves. They had no idea pure codeine formulations were available OTC too, and cheaper as well.

Now, all they have to do is go see their GP and get a 12 month renewable script, which is easy as fuck in my country, since it was OTC a few months ago, and since it's given out like candy by doctors and always has been. With healthcare, the scripted codeine is even free, which it wasn't back when it was freely available.

Oh well, in the end I don't really give a shit, my codeine days are looooong gone, and the kids ruined it for themselves and everyone else because it's now stigmatized when it wasn't at all before that. It's just more paternalism and repression, and that's the only thing that saddens me.
>>
Samuel Sandlefock - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:26:15 EST ID:X/ThWaVl No.586393 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Thing is that OTC codein should be available for adults. Even without any dabble in reacreation the availability has saved my ass many times because without them I wouldn't have been able to go to work (just being ill, not junkie).

Also my colleague had a back pain and was feeling also otherwise ill. I recommended him to buy certain brand (strongest available without prescription) and he, being naive, said that I saved his day.

They should keep them in stock and not ban them because it keeps people working and it's great if you are on flu or coughing your ass off.

It should be pharmacist discretion to decide if they sell it or not. Banning everything is not an answer. It's just stupid.
>>
Angus Brabberbun - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 06:24:44 EST ID:T7flwXWl No.586498 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>586347
>(extraction my ass, no way to aovid some liver damage in few years of frequent using)
>>586351
I mean let's face it, any real level of habit/use and you just can't trust CWEs with that level of APAP

I hate to disagree with you guys, but I did a couple of years of taking ~8x 500mg APAP/15mg codeine during the day then a CWE of 20-60g of APAP and 300-900mg of codeine pretty much nightly and I had many liver enzyme tests done and they were all fine. Many of these extractions were done with a tee shirt, because obviously this was a time in my life when I made all of the good decisions. I did take NAC regularly for some of that time, but not all of it.
That's not to say that you can't fuck it up, you can, but it's entirely possible to regularly do cold water extractions of codeine from APAP and not suffer any damage.
It still amazes me how people are stupid enough to give themselves liver failure when extraction is so easy.

>586362
I pretty much agree with this. I see the same thing happening here (AU) with codeine, doctors already write scripts easy as anything, once it ceases to be OTC I can only imagine they will be more willing. It's also not centrally registered so there's nothing to stop doctor shopping. The profile of codeine addicts here is also similar to what you mentioned, mostly women 40+ and GPs will write them scripts for almost anything, they're very capable of shopping around.

Most people who try codeine don't get addicted in my experience, we have to remember that most of us are on this board for a reason so our perception can get a bit skewed.
>>
Bombastus Werrywag - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 13:44:05 EST ID:y9smUv94 No.586504 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586498
>>586347
Yeah you can CWE. If I was doing it every day, I'd just make large CWE batches. You can also boil them down and do a "recrystallization". CWE 5 bottles or something and boil it down to a litre, refrigerate, filter, and drink over the course or a week or something.

But at that point, you'll still have so mch caffeine. That's why it's "addictive" to that point but also not as recreational / sedating.
>>
MDCB !Hs1AFHVTXw!!RpEUU2cz - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:49:22 EST ID:Si70sRnO No.586520 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Im intending to isolate some codeine in the next few days. I was going to filter using a coffee filter before reducing the amount of water and then using a wheel filter. Is there an effective way to remove the bulk of the Paracetamol prior to using a coffee filter? It is painfully slow and prone to breaking after 12 hours of waiting if you fuck with it at all. I find it infuriating.
>>
Nathaniel Smallfoot - Sun, 15 Oct 2017 20:05:00 EST ID:T7flwXWl No.586529 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586520
Yeah, just do an initial filter with a bit of old tee shirt or something, then refrigerate the solution and put it through a coffee filter once it's cooled off. The wheel filter is probably unnecessary but it couldn't hurt.
>>
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 13:03:33 EST ID:5GS7i51c No.586575 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586362

I wrote up a massive response the other day but it got freaking deleted.

I just wanted to say this:

>Why do you present the false dichotomy that people will (seemingly inevitably) either start with codeine or street heroin?

White people in America don't just "start heroin" without trying another opioid extensively unless they're already neck deep in the illicit drug scene to the point of pre-existing polydrug dependence. Not to be discriminatory, but I don't know of a single white person who did heroin as their first opioid. It's just ridiculous. Particularly for middle-class whites, there's no way nothing opi wise>heron is the order of operations.

No, they almost always try some pain pills first. Whether codeine, tram, hydroc, oxy, whatever, they try it first. And when they don't try it, if they were destined to be an addict, they're likely addicted on and off to another drug that's less effective at maintaining a long term addictive hold on its users, such as marijuana and to some extent alcohol. Obviously alcohol addiction is more physically dangerous and damaging, but we can't assume they're destined to be a daily drinker. Dependency rates are so high with opioids that I actually do support the CDC guidelines on avoiding unnecessary opioid exposure at this time. Don't penalize the people for a system they didn't create, but yeah sure you can discriminate against those never exposed to opioids. We don't need more addicts triggered by 5+ bottles of pain killers from one out-patient surgery where you go under for 20 minutes, or college kids getting handed 60x50mg tramadol because they have shingles (shingles is a proven nerve-based pain which opioids are notorious for not battling well). I can't tell you how many foreign students come out of the health office at the college saying "dude they seriously gave me tramadol for a twisted ankle? In Brazil they would have given me some APAP, some fruit, and maybe an ice pack".

This whole pain as a fifth vital sign is a good idea in theory, but if it really means "opiate-odometer as the fifth vital sign," we have a huge problem.

Don't forget that once you expose someone to opioids, if you force them into a market where safe opioids aren't regularly available, you're essentially setting them up to eventually try fentalogs/PST/PPT/fake fent pills eventually. Pandora's box has been opened. Sure heroin might be available all over, but if someone hasn't taken opioids 99% of them would never try heroin. We can't create addicts and then leave them out to dry; it's quite unethical.
>>
TinyTrip !5pb17tfZto - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:53:45 EST ID:QQY+Rwjt No.586580 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586575
>White people in America
>Not to be discriminatory but,

Your lucky there's no such thing as non-white privilege or it'd be showing right now Mario! Just kidding, anyways I agree with your post.

I agree with what you said as a general hypothetical framework but there will always be variables

I lived and grew up through the opoid epidemic in an area hit harder than rural U.S. More people went to rehab than graduated it seemed.
I have to agree that from anecdotal experience that middle class people tend to get introduced to rx pills and fall down the rabbit hole from there.

More so wanted to chime in that it's more likely a socio-economic aspect that will vary on a country by country basis rather than racial lines per se (most countries have very different race dynamics than the U.S).
One of the key reasons it became so severe within my country is due to the economics demand for rx opoids within isolated first nation reserves. At the peak I know that people were paying upwards 120$ CAD for an oxy 80 (mind you I know individuals who sold a mickey of alcohol for 60+)

it got to the point that the few areas which could be used as a link to these communities (which often lacked roads) became infested with gangs and drugs, people on reserve began doing things like selling their children (generally prostitution etc) and if I'm not mistaken the opioid addiction rate for individuals over 18, on a particular reserve, was over 6/10.

When the gangs saturated what was otherwise a fairly white, union based, middle class city, you could find virtually everything from dmt-pcp-ketamine-Xanax-Dillaudid etc but never once did I hear of even the most hurting person talk of H as its availability was virtually nill. So I mean in this case an entire region was wrekd due to arbitrage within the drug market that gangs were quick to take advantage of.
>>
Bombastus Werrywag - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:12:03 EST ID:NPcxtYn0 No.586581 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586529
>it couldn't hurt
>wheel filter tylenol fucking 1s
It'll hurt my hand after 5 hours of squeezing out 10ml

>>586580
Watcha doin on opi
>>
TinyTrip !5pb17tfZto - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:24:15 EST ID:QQY+Rwjt No.586582 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586580
*You're

>>586581
>quickly run back to hide in /benz/
I lurk here a fair amount (as well as most boards that have any interesting discussion) as the conversation is often be better than most, just tend not to post as I don't particularly enjoy opioids and wouldn't want to step on toes by posting something that goes against counter culture knowledge.

and I was going to comment on the whole t1 thing cwe, doesn't precisely seem like a good effort/reward trade off

How ya been bomb? Where have you been hiding?
>>
Thomas de Queasy - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:20:33 EST ID:0X+4Y1XC No.586588 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586575
I never presented a dichotomy, I know pills are big in the US but in Europe only small crowds do pharms, and amongst those few users, most started with heroin because it's the first opiate they were presented with. It was the first I was offered when going out, I was an oddball for doing pills of codeine-ethylmorphine. I introduced some friends to it and none of them kept using except for 2, one was studying medicine so he kept doing pharms like I did, but the other took the only other opi he knew and could get : H.

Then again, I can only base my posts on my own experiences, observations, and what I've gathered by talking with other addicts. Here, where codeine had always been OTC, it had never been known or considered a drug of abuse. A small niche of pre-maintenance programs dopefiends used it to somewhat lighten their withdrawal symptoms in the 80's.

People get exposed to drugs, whatever their beliefs, education or location. The only thing you can do is make sure that happens as safely, knowledgeably and in the spirit of harm reduction. I'm not going to put much more effort into this thread because codeine is shit anyway. If you wonder why people don't do pills here, it's because whatever the pain you're in, you're never getting hydrocodone (unavailable in Europe) or oxycodone (only scripted as a second intention when morphine is not well tolerated), but ibuprofen or APAP/eventually codeine/APAP, and the recommended dosage is barely a threshold one.
>>
Reuben Povingdot - Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:31:17 EST ID:NcttNLlm No.586604 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Wait codeine is OTC in Canada? What's available?
>>
Edward Sellyhet - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 15:45:58 EST ID:yI8LuK2P No.586645 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586604
AC&C, Tylenol 1, some methocarbamol/asprin/codiene tings, look it up retard.
>>
Theophrastus Werrywag - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 17:43:36 EST ID:BLtq1hDw No.586652 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>586582
Idunno.

All I know is that cold water extractions can be worth it if you do the separation and everything.


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