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Withdrawal Management V1.0 by HebrewMobstir4Jesus - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 17:11:34 EST ID:5Am1xJVY No.586312 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1507842694966.jpg -(831746B / 812.25KB, 2232x3191) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 831746
First off I want to say I believe in the 64/88 hour rule.(Chipping)

This thread does not contain loperamide
due to qt interval concerns.

This thread will be edited to include more detail; look forward to explanations of each ingredient in this recipe at the bottom of this post.

*Denotes importance

Treating acute stomach discomfort/vomiting/dehydration.
(Not classical diahrea)
Stop alcohol, tobacco, refined salt, refined sugar, beans & reduce intake of cheap pill binders like titanium dioxide immediately. Procure/Get/Steal/Buy !***Olive Oil, !*Mineral water, !*Sea salt, !***Baking soda, !Atropine or !Diphenhydramine, !Calcium (Tums/Rolaids/Pure) Magnesium(Chloride Preferred).

Reduction of severity of stomach discomfort by way of prevention.

Treating acute loss of control in the limbs lower back (Severe rls) etc.
Cease use of Tobacco & Research breathing techniques. Consider taking Vitamin D&C(Adrenal)(MAKE SURE THE VIT C IS NOT SODIUM ASCORBATE), Cholesterol, Olive oil, Magnesium, Potassium, Sunlight, Dxm Polisterex LOW DOSE. Dxm Hydrobromide can contribute to rls by way of bromide.

Someone please chime in with additional ways of forcing the parathetic(sp?) & sympathetic nervous system to regulate itself.

Treating perceived coldness
Prevention is key here.
Cease tobacco use. Nascent Iodine(Careful very serious), B12(Under Tongue), Magnesium+Potassium (Chloride preferably) Raising legs up against a wall,
(Many limb and lower back Exercises can be performed while lying down), Dxm polisterex LOW DOSE. Solanine containing plants such as banana peppers and potatoes appear to cause cholinergic symptoms which we do not want.

Stress & Uncertainty
Cease tobacco use. Consider these - Sunlight, Breathing techniques, Vit C, Vit D, B12, Nascent Iodine, Water(&mineralwater), Taste/Scent therapy, mild ketosis, Sea salt(Adrenal), Magnesium, *****OLIVE OIL

Explaining ingredients
-reserved- (feel free to help out guys)

Explaining things to avoid
Refined salt is really really really fucked up. Tobacco, dont do it trust me.

Please put any and all useful info in the comment section I will add it to this post.
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 23:46:29 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586330 Ignore Report Quick Reply

pro tips: Weed is an absolute life saver for me. But it totally depends on your weed quality, source, and type. For me Indicas have always worked best for WD, but my medical source is all indoor small production, and they've had the same lines/clones for years. This means that in their case, ALL their buds appear more Indica-like, even their Sativas. The 3 main strains I get regularly are great for WD (OGK which is a hybrid, Kush and Cheese which is an Indica 75% I believe, OGK+Blue Cheese cross, and Chemdawg which is a potent 100% Sativa but stout nuggy nugs like an Indica, but smokes/vapes heady. Both the OGK and K&C were perfect for WD, and the CD would have worked in a pinch, but not as well. Meanwhile other people have smoked me up on some street Sativas that still pack that anxious punch. So it totally depends on the person and the source. The mystery strains I had in Florid (if they had a name it was 95% fake most likely, as in most Indicas were actually Sativa, and almost all the bud was outdoor likely Northern Cali outdoor if it's "fire/dro", or local outdoor that was a sort of B- grade ~10-15%, I mean not bad for local indoor but not what I get now. These medical strains aren't rated, but they had their Chemdawg and Purple Haze strains rated, and the Chemdawg came in at a ~26-27% I believe. That's great for me. The OGK is the weakest, but it's easily 18% and likely 20-22%+. Frankly I pay my source twice the DN rate because it's all certified organic, like imported water etc. The taste is phenomenal and I've had first hand experience seeing how their plants don't need a 'nute washing/cleansing. Best taste ever in a vape).

What's also PERFECT for WD is vaped weed products, aka avb (already vaped bud) or abv (already been vaped). Avb edibles, golden dragon (just be careful of alcohol levels, they're bad for WD), even AVB in 00 caps and light oiling can work. This is good for trying to sleep and keeping your cannabinoid levels consistent. One of the great thing about high quality vapes like the Volcano+Magma vaporbong attachment is ending up with ounces of AVB (1g avb= 2g of weed in weight, but I would say 1g avb= ~200mg of fresh bud with a very different, less recreational cannabinoid profile). Consuming avb and then vaping later can also give the fuller "smoking" feeling whilst remaining clean of smoke. Keep your temps below 392F (when benzene boils. I personally try to keep it 385F or less to avoid 392F hotspots. It allows you have avb that's still active whilst getting the vast majority of the thc available).

You will also benefit from Hot showers (read about the works of Dr. Rhonda Patrick and heat treatment), which I usually keep/kept 1-2 Solo cups of ice water to drink whilst in the shower to remain hydrated/not overheating, meditation (even if you think it doesn't work for you) which you can achieve first by emptying your mind by using high dose weed+ possibly lyrica/benzos (for me benzos make meditation harder), and some kind of non-verbal repetitive music that you find halfway enjoyable. For me, I found that "lofi hiphop" or whatever it's called, works best as long as it had no words. Just try to think of nothing whilst never falling asleep. Focus on the sensations of your 5 senses (or 4 if you make it dark or put on sun glasses etc.), whatever you have to do to clear your mind. If you stray off, it's okay, just seriously recenter yourself. You'll start achieving 90min meditation without realizing it, and some day you'll be able to do it without weed).

>Also useful but not crucial

  1. Alpha OR Beta blockers, but never both. In general, beta blockers are less dangerous than alpha blockers, but both can be dangerous. Research the individual drug and what it can't be combined with. For me, I've used *Propranolol and **Clonidine before, but Propranol much more often. They're almost equal in effects, with clondine having less side effects/cross drug reactions vs. Propranolol. These are given out by doctors like candy.

2. If you have access to a doctor, ask for **Clonidine+***Ondansetron+*Hydroxyzine+**Gabapentin, and if they give up any negativity, quickly say that you can skip on the Gabapentin if he/she is worried, but you need the other 3. It is very likely you'll get all 3 because they're not scheduled., whereas gabapentin is schedule 5 (below benzos schedule 4). Combine those 3-4 with kratom, lope, weed, advil/NSAID, benzos you can get online (etiz/diclaz), and kratom/bupe when it's the appropriate time. Don't bother asking a GP for suboxone; most likely they can't script it. You don't want a script of it anyways, it's another addiction waiting to happen. It's also the most affordable and one of the most common opi scripts these days, so it's not worth being logged in the system as a junkie for a suboxone script when you can buy 10-30 8mg pills and never need any more. Let those sub flippers make a buck, because ultimately they're trading their reputation for underpriced opioids. It's the reason why 3x8mg tabs for $20 is fair.

3. Muscle Relaxers can help, but if they're charging more than $1 a pill (even that's a bit much, unless they're real actual Soma and not any other muscle relaxer) it's not worth your money.

4. Barbituates might help for functionality if you have to work. I can't recommend anything stronger than butalbital (It comes in a butalbital+caffeine+APAP combo), and the caffeine keeps you alert. I wouldn't recommend caffeine alone though. Be careful of barbituate+benzo combos. Barbituates are super easy to OD off in general. I've only taken low dose 2-4 pill max doses of butalbital, and never had phenobarbital.

5. If you have extra money, kratom extracts might be good

pt. 1/x
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Thu, 12 Oct 2017 23:47:25 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586331 Ignore Report Quick Reply

6. If you are hooked on a short acting opi like H, IV anything, fent, or maybe Oxycodone (definitely Dilaudid), consider switching to a longer term opi (PST, PPT, or possibly methadone, but not daily methadone that's same dose, only for short term 7-14 day use) to get off. Some people do the opposite to get off, but coming from a PST/PPT WD guy, I don't see how doing dilaudid would have made it easier unless I had switched to dilaudid for a solid 3 weeks. You can't really justify the cost increase of that, as I would have to do $100 worth of dope (that's assuming IV and a good plug, whereas non-IV and not the best plug would be $250/day) just to maintain. Don't go cheaper than PST though, as fent is so short acting you can't sleep.

7. **ULDN If you have a great doctor relationship and it's open that you're either an opi user or a former alcoholic (I would use the excuse that I was an alcoholic for 1.5 years and have just gone clean since, which is halfway true), ask for low nose naltrexone compounded by a pharmacy. Ask for 1mcg/ml with up to 20mcg per day, with your script split up into 3 dose pickups if you can conveniently pick up (monthly can work, but 2-3x/month is guaranteed not to become unstable). ULDN is great for PAWS and even WD, though I didn't use it during acute stage.

8. Don't forget traditional *LDN when you're clear of opioids. I would like to eventually map out a system where I'm taking ~5-20mcg/day (more like 5ug every 12hr and 10ug with the opi dose) when using opis as a chipper, and closer to 50-300ug/day when I'm not using opioids (doing some kind of waiting period and upward titration for every shift between ULDN/LDN so my body isn't thrown into shock). Typical LDN is in the single mg range, but I don't see more than 1mg being necessary. Remember high dosage = more side effects. I would say a minimum good ULDN dose is 1-5ug, eventually working to at least 10ug, whereas a better semi-LDN or half ULDN half LDN would be 50-150ug. Above all remember that ULDN can help you the rest of your life, whether you use again or not (and especially if you do use again).

9. Remember to take your ULDN, but if you don't, at least dose it when you do relapse or do an opioid. I would say for a noob with no ULDN experience, take 1-3ug of naltrexone depending on how high your dose is, but no more than 5ug or you might block the high. 2ug should be just fine. I try to think 1mcg per 10mg Roxy equivalent should be just fine, but who knows. It will probably be sold as 5mg/1ug some day.

10. ULDN or not, take 30-45mg dxm with all your opi doses from now on, or some other NMDA antagonist /dis/ in a low non-red dose. It will reduce tolerance raising in the future, which directly links to the severity of WD eventually.

11. Both Tobacco and Alcohol are 0.0/10 during WD. If you're nicotine dependent, switch to a high dose e-cig and try to treat it as a dosed medicine. Don't do it for fun or as something to do. Don't even think about drinking booze; If you're also dependent on booze at the same time, switch to a safe dosage of Diclazepam/Klonopin/some kind of long term benzo (Diclazepam/Kpin/Valium/Ativan is half intermediate half long lasting, but anything else is too short most likely, NO XANAX unless it's all you can get. Etizolam is shorter than xanax so even worse if you're alcohol dependent), or consider getting off the alcohol first. Alcohol+opi addiction will kill you eventually if you're a raging alcoholic.

12. WATCH OUT for dph/promethazine/other anti-histamines during WD. They may provide sedation, but will definitely make the RLS (also likely RAS relentless arm syndrome) worse. They make you feel like shit, but if you have to take one, I'd say Doxylamine is best for sleep, followed by promethazine, followed by dph. Dph is the worse, so get doxylamine. I would only really use them as a stack with something anti-RLS like a benzo or lyrica/gaba or maybe a barb.

13. Don't forget weed is an antiemetic. Hydroxyzine is great for both nausea and anxiety, as well as not causing RLS as bad as dph. Just keep the doses reasonable (never over 100mg) and instead go for a stack with something else.

14. Non-benzo sedatives like Trazodone and Seroquel (only had Trazodone) can be effective, but their side effects are worse than benzos in the short term, and are less functional than low dose benzos IMO. Just avoid crazy benzos like cLam, fPam, fLam, only use etizolam once nightly for bed (if you get rebound anxiety in the morning, switch to diclazepam or add a small diclaz dose in the morning and etiz at night), and stick to diclaz/kpin/valium/arguably ativan and you'll be fine.

15. Above all things, prepare to face the things you did drugs to run away from in the first place. This will be multiple times more difficult than quitting in the first place. The good news is it's totally separate from the usage problem or addiction itself, so it won't be the "same" time of trauma as acute WDs.

16. Feed yourself and stay hydrated. Eat whatever you can manage to keep down. I can't praise Ensure protein shakes and gatorade enough. You can get powdered gatorade at walmart if you're poor. This + constant hot showers when you cant sleep is life.

17. Always have a throw up can ready next to the bed, one next to the toilet, and usually another 1-2 around the house.

18. Don't relapse. Set out a timeline for yourself where you tell yourself no more getting high, at least for 30 days or whatever. You may even dose to try to get high, but you won't get high and have a choice to redose. Just don't. Remind yourself that whether you wait 3 months or quit forever, either choice is better than dosing right now. Some day you'll be able to possibly chip with actual euphoria you haven't seen in ages. Or maybe you've proven multiple times you can't handle chipping. Either wait, chipping or sober is better than being dependent.

Pt. 2/2. Half my shit (more like 3/4) got deleted from the fucking text field so I'm not spending another hour rewriting it. Fuck using 420chan directly.
HebrewMobstir4Jesus - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:16:20 EST ID:5Am1xJVY No.586361 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Will compile this info for v1.1 Should I give you credit as "dr.m?-
Quick note, ime during acute vomiting if one can not stomach anything or get to a hospital for an iv drip to retain nutrients/stop vomiting/dehydration that Ingesting extra virgin olive oil Can really provide some relief from the non stop stomach spasms, vomiting, caloric defecit.
Eugene Gepperfuck - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:37:25 EST ID:6mCiPIl/ No.586365 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Just ran out of heroin, took my last dose 630 this morning and I'm not buying more. I have 5 Subutex 8mg and half a kilo of Kratom, how do I best combine/alternate the two to get through WD the fastest?
HebrewMobstir4Jesus - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 11:47:56 EST ID:5Am1xJVY No.586368 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Ive never used kratom but I would wait 32 hours from the last H dose then do a heavy dose of kratom and try my best to cat nap in complete darkness. get a sitter if you can, once youve made it another 64 hours since the first kratom dose you might be able to take subs but listen I would assume you would need to wait a minimum of 96 hours from the last dose of H to begin subs without precipitated wd though but this likely depends on the size and duration of your habit. wait for others to chime in on kratoms interaction with precipitated wd in regards to subs or research it yourself please

I personally would chip kratom every 32 or 64 hours until I was positive I could take suboxone.
I prefer chipping over tapering as chipping allows dose reduction with a higher chance of sleep without halting your body from detoxing at a reasonable rate ime.
Maintaining a reeted mind is infinitely important here. Sleep is equal to maintaining a level head here!
HebrewMobstir4Jesus - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:04:33 EST ID:5Am1xJVY No.586369 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What I meant was 32 or 64 hours after the dose you took wears off not since your last dose administered so factor that in when discussing a safe time to begin subs

So if you dose kratom monday at 2pm and it wears off at 10pm then 32 hours later would be 6 am wednesday or @64 hours it would be 2pm thursday
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:49:10 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586377 Ignore Report Quick Reply

pls put Dr. Mario

most of it got deleted btw
Betsy Sabberlog - Fri, 13 Oct 2017 22:45:38 EST ID:Si70sRnO No.586394 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What is the 64/88 rule?

dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:27:24 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586413 Ignore Report Quick Reply

It's 2.66 days and, I believe, 3.66 days

It's some sort of chipping-based schedule

Not a bad one either

Nell Wublingson - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 13:06:33 EST ID:6mCiPIl/ No.586414 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Aren't subs usually safe 24 hours after last h dose?

I was snorting 30-50mg of brick every 4-6 hours at the end. It had been higher in the past but that's what I was able to ween to before I ran out.

Anyways noticed symptoms of withdrawal later that night. Severe chills and mindfuck. Took maybe 15mg of h I saw I had and 6 grams of Kratom about 12-13 hours after last h dose. Woke up about 11pm bed drenched in sweat but colder than fuck. Took another 5g Kratom and some clonodine. Helped somewhat. Took another 5g 1030 this morning and what little that did has worn off. Thinking of riding it out until tomorrow morning with lope, clonodine, and weed and then just pop a sub and see what happens.
dr. m !gWLn19/oKs - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 13:28:13 EST ID:FFJir8DS No.586415 Ignore Report Quick Reply

All I can say is I had precipitated withdrawal 99 hours after taking PST.

Frankly all those people who say "I can take it 8hr after dope, or even together with dope and I just get higher!!!" just aren't dependent enough. Like some people don't even get the projectile vomiting when they WD. It's like yeah sure, if I'm not actually full on dependent, then doing subs the next day isn't a problem because there is no PWD to WD from.
ylhcsd - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 13:32:02 EST ID:rBxYgmuW No.586416 Ignore Report Quick Reply

I've always used them at the 24 hour mark and never had precipitated withdrawal.

Maybe there fent derivatives with longer half lives used as cut could change that.
HM4J - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:00:11 EST ID:5Am1xJVY No.586437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Praying for you. stay relaxed as fuck thats key.
Esther Goffingmure - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 20:17:23 EST ID:6mCiPIl/ No.586443 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Update on the Subutex.....

Was feeling ballsy after reading some reports on kratom and subs. Read multiple reports of guys saying they could take subs less than 5 hours after dosing Kratom and be fine. So I decided to risk it and popped about 6mg of Subutex at 5pm and two hours later I'm feeling decent physically, no chills or anything but I a bit fidgety and anxious after smoking some weed. Now for a hard taper on the subs because I don't want to take subs more than 5 days in a row.

What really terrifies me is the depression and anxiety that are likely still coming. Suicidal depression and panic attacks are the reason I abuse heroin in the first place.

Thanks for all the positivity guys.
HM4J - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 20:29:31 EST ID:5Am1xJVY No.586444 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1508027371645.png -(512113B / 500.11KB, 1280x720) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
I would definately shy away from smoked/vaped cannabis and all nightshades ESPESCIALLY ANY AND ALL CAPSAICIN containing plants and TOBACCO/Nicotine for the time being.

In light of suicidal tendencies I would like to make myself available to you, we can keep it anonymous if you like perhaps you have an online game you would like to communicate through?

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