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Socialism general by Phoebe Claywill - Mon, 31 Jul 2017 20:21:23 EST ID:RCrKpebm No.395293 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1501546883434.jpg -(351604B / 343.36KB, 1200x1532) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 351604
Thread for general discourse and learning about theory. Theory devloped by Marx, Kropotkin, Bakunin, Proudhon, Lenin, Serok APO, Bookchin, Chomsky, Zizek, Zinn, Blanc, Rosa, and the like. No crude dogmatic and ideological secterian beef here. Dedicated to the syndicalist here that managed to convert me once upon a time (maybe they all left? I haven't been here in a while). Also, someone please tell me that SP is banned and that Spartan hasn't come back from the dead to haunt us.

Massive library of resources: https://libcom.org/library/bookmarked

>Marxian economics: https://edwad.tumblr.com/post/129839545961/marxian-economics-reading-list

>On Anarchism: http://www.ditext.com/goehlert/full.html
If you are a mouthbreath that can't read theory then Stimulator is recommended: https://sub.media/c/submedia-films/

Ask about and give recommendations to fellow people.

Please do not reply if you think any of the following arguments or any similair arguments hold weight.
>hooman nayture
>klass will always exist
>it only werks on papah not irl lol
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Graham Nammerfield - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 08:11:10 EST ID:V38fQvd9 No.395459 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395425
>Implying I was implying the right has respect for democratic institutions when I was actually implying that bourgeois democracy is a fundamental part of the status-quo.
>>
Jenny Buggleshaw - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 14:01:30 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395462 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395458
In America that makes you a felon.
>>
Alice Greenridge - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 14:06:34 EST ID:mC095RTs No.395463 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395462
Yeah, but pretty much everything in America makes you a felon
>>
Sophie Funderfone - Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:59:40 EST ID:6Lc+yC0b No.395497 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395458
Possibily but its rather difficult in a city, especially in the more populated parts of town, since you want it to be an in and out kind of thing
>>
Sophie Funderfone - Wed, 09 Aug 2017 12:08:12 EST ID:6Lc+yC0b No.395498 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395456
Same here, but I'd suggest reading some Bookchin, specifically works like The Politics of Social Ecology: LIbertarian Municipalism and Communalism: The Democratic Dimension of Anarchism. I can link pdfs perhaps at a later time. But he talked there a lot about the old way New England did town halls, how the state houses didn't really have all that much power and power lied more in the individual communities.
Reason I bring them up is the spirit is still alive today, town I grew up in, in northeast MA still does town halls but they're obviously not as powerful as they used to be.


What is the trend here? by Eliza Finderspear - Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:01:31 EST ID:7G79XfRQ No.394903 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Is this like the Gary Johnson folks here or is it well balanced on this board. Well discuss this guy and Ill know where the political compass is
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Walter Forryworth - Mon, 31 Jul 2017 20:48:52 EST ID:CYUigsbp No.395294 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395222

Does that game still have players and servers? If age of empires 2 does I'm going to guess yes.
>>
Martha Hattinggold - Tue, 01 Aug 2017 00:12:29 EST ID:inydKMB1 No.395298 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395294
Last I checked, years ago, it still did, but alas the World War, Civil War, etc. maps are no more.
>>
Reuben Honderwodge - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:21:02 EST ID:86/uIL1F No.395368 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395294
They are releasing a remastered edition soon. NB, lets take it to /VG/ etc
>>
Matilda Bruddleham - Tue, 08 Aug 2017 17:49:11 EST ID:8Jh2i/ky No.395487 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395217
>18k minerals
>12k gas
>200/200

The person who made this picture never played starcraft
>>
Polly Smalldale - Wed, 09 Aug 2017 06:45:53 EST ID:FrUBHYfA No.395494 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394903

>posting a blingee as a static image and not an animated image

Back in my day scum like you were brought out back and beaten with wrenches.


Russian hackers accessed Pence's illegal private email account by Albert Midgechutch - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 11:39:48 EST ID:dWgYAvhf No.395460 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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So this isn't exactly news, but it is something most people haven't heard about thanks to "It's Okay If You Are Republican" syndrome and I think it bears discussion.

Mike Pence while governor of Indiana used a private email account, which is illegal under Indiana state law. His email was also hacked by Russian hackers because, like the Old white guy he is, he used AOL and AOL had a massive breach of email accounts, some 500,000,000 accounts were accessed by a Russian hacker.

This is important because it means A) Pence was likely doing something illegal on his private email account that he wanted to hide from the public, and B) The Russians likely discovered his illegal activities and are using it as Kompromat (blackmail material) to control him.

Pence was a Manafort hire, and in Manafort went to extreme lengths to get Trump to pick him. He lied about Trump's plane being broken down while Trump was visiting Pence and forced him to spend the night with Pence, giving Pence more time to sell himself to the president. Before this, Trump wanted someone else. Only through trickery did Manafort convince Trump to go with Pence. Manafort is a well known stooge of the Russian government. He has taken millions of dollars from the Russian government and proposed a plan to "greatly benefit the Putin Government" to Oleg Deripaska, one of Putin's top Oligarchs. (https://www.apnews.com/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a) He helped install a puppet leader for Putin in Ukraine, and it seems he's done it again with Trump.

So why would Manafort want Pence so badly that he was willing to trick Trump to get him to pick him? It seems obvious it's because Putin has Kompromat over Pence that he obtained when he hacked Pence's emails. Now Pence has just spent the last 6 months dragging his feet in turning over all government related emails to Indiana, but he did it entirely with his own legal team. There has been no oversight. They probably took so damn long because they needed to make sure they removed all incriminating emails and only sent over ones that were completely clean. (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/04/state-now-has-all-pences-state-related-a…
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Albert Midgechutch - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 11:42:45 EST ID:dWgYAvhf No.395461 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395460
I probably shouldn't have put the links in parentheses. If you want to access them, make sure to delete the bracket at the end.
>>
Alice Weblingbedging - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 15:02:54 EST ID:uW9KWJtY No.395464 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'll never understand people who do shady dealings in easily searchable, never deleted formats. get a burner phone. meet people in person. geez. did all of our spy skills tank after the cold war?
>>
Angus Worthingdock - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 19:15:45 EST ID:PIa6yiXY No.395466 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395464
Their old as fuck, and generally disconnected.


Trunp bans transgender people from serving in the military. by Sophie Crullyfoot - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:34:09 EST ID:GFr6vgM6 No.395008 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Apparently people want mentally ill soldiers who require hormone pill/sex-change surgery/constant psyche sessions to be in our army? Why?

Trump is 100% right here. Their treatment is too expensive and severe to allow a soldier to take. You can't have military members be physically and mentally fit with that kind of stuff altering them, especially with hormone pills.

Keep in mind this is specifically for transgender people; a cross-dresser, for example, would be allowed to serve. If you have gender dysphoria, you can't serve. Is there a problem here?
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Wesley Duckwill - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 04:09:48 EST ID:inydKMB1 No.395436 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>395426
Damn you jumped down my throat over this one. Yeah I meant being eligible to be drafted. I thought women would be drafted now, guess I was wrong. If it had passed it'd be nothing to celebrate for the same reason there's a silver-lining to Trump's transgender ban.
>>
William Bresslewotch - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 16:51:39 EST ID:ecdOcfG2 No.395438 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395436
what i'm curious is, why did you just run with the story you heard without fact checking? because it fit a narrative you already had going in your head?

>SJWs/leftist/pick your boogeyman pulling all of this politically correct bullshit
>what? women are now being drafted?
>makes sense, as it jives with the preestablished narrative i have in my head about said boogeyman pulling said politically correct bullshit
>time to get outraged on the internet
>yay, outrage dopamines!
>rush fades
>whelp, time to find more outrage material on the internet

that's how i figure this shit works. on all sides of the political spectrum, mind you. just replace SJWs/leftists with alt-right/rightists and politically correct with racist/sexist, for instance.

if we could get a straight answer to this, we might have a better insight into how biases work and in turn how the cycle of internet outrage and community polarization works.
>>
Henry Pellerkore - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 17:00:32 EST ID:coAQRsHS No.395439 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395048
>United States
>not our greatest ally
>>
Wesley Duckwill - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 17:19:34 EST ID:inydKMB1 No.395442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>395438
Current events like this don't interest me much, so I didn't look that deeply. What >>395392 said reminded me of the opposite, how people on social media saw equality in the military as a good thing. No doubt it matters to those involved and effected by such policy. But from my perspective there's way more important developments to be outraged about and things to push for, such as connecting social justice struggles to liberation movements.
>>
Wesley Brinningmudge - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 15:03:43 EST ID:coAQRsHS No.395465 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395119
>dyslexia
>having trouble reading equals gender dysphoria


Our coming Constitutional Crisis. by Caroline Seppermore - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:59:35 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395374 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Ruh-roh Shaggy!

Looks like Robert Mueller may have crossed a line.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/345230-fbi-probe-into-trump-russia-ties-expands-to-potential-financial

Remember what Trump Wump said just a couple of weeks ago...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-sessions-russia.html

>"Asked if Mr. Mueller’s investigation would cross a red line if it expanded to look at his family’s finances beyond any relationship to Russia, Mr. Trump said, “I would say yes.” He would not say what he would do about it. “I think that’s a violation. Look, this is about Russia.”

So, looks like the line is about to be crossed. Will Trump the Grump fire Mueller now? He has talked about it. Which of course would smack us right into a big old Constitutional Crisis.
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Albert Midgechutch - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 20:48:50 EST ID:dWgYAvhf No.395449 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395390
Lol, I love that they're making Murkowski do it. They really are petty children. When the democrats needed to keep congress in session during an August vacation they got a guy from Delaware to do it. The republicans are getting someone from Alaska to do it because she pissed them all off by not toeing the party line and voting for their Obamacare repeal. This likely means she can't even go home for break considering the plane ride is like 10 hours each way and she needs to be there every 3 days.
>>
Jenny Buggleshaw - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 22:19:08 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395452 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395449
>Not being able to go to Alaska

How is that a punishment?
>>
Priscilla Suckleshit - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 22:31:34 EST ID:8S8foqEK No.395453 Ignore Report Quick Reply
For a law-and-order party, republicans don't really respect the rule of law: Nixon with wiretaps, Reagan with Iran-Contra, Trump obstructing with the Russia stuff. Why are they compelled to betray the nation?
>>
Molly Foshdale - Sun, 06 Aug 2017 23:25:44 EST ID:WQQ+NOb5 No.395455 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395453
Don't get it twisted. "Law and order" is just a whistle word for "let's put more brown people in our for profit prison system".
>>
Jenny Buggleshaw - Mon, 07 Aug 2017 00:15:10 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395457 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395455
Don't forget policing women's reproductive parts!


US Department of Defense whining like babies by Fanny Brettingwat - Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:25:45 EST ID:yW/LsL9L No.394881 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/display.cfm?pubID=1358

>DoD releases 145 page report about how the US empire is facing collapse
>laments the proliferation of technology
>calls for more surveillance, propaganda, military expansion

Thoughts? Opinions? Is anyone actually surprised?

I just love how open they are about their intentions. No point in hiding it anymore, might makes right!
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Reuben Honderwodge - Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:15:38 EST ID:86/uIL1F No.395367 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>394978
>And besides that there are actual effects of human activity caused climate change that are far more pressing than sea level rise


Pffft says you. I live in Miami.
>>
Angus Bardworth - Fri, 04 Aug 2017 02:10:43 EST ID:4kLNGtGV No.395383 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394940
Lol Did you ever hear about the numerous Russian Mafia members that were buying and living in Trump Tower in the 1990s?
>>
George Blittingford - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 02:50:45 EST ID:nnGa8DsR No.395406 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395383

not trying to be snarky, but do you have any sources you could link of that? curious to see what you have read
>>
George Blittingford - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 02:59:06 EST ID:nnGa8DsR No.395407 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395365

Honestly I'd be down with a world based on the Petroyuan if they would just take Fatty Mao off of it. Just put the red star on there and I'm with it, comrade.
>>
the flicker !FwnV7hV52I - Sat, 05 Aug 2017 04:02:58 EST ID:QiGBcKwL No.395409 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395365
>Obama tried to change things
Obama's actions as a president make much more sense if you assume that, like almost all bourgeois politicians, he is motivated mainly by the desire for self-aggrandizement. The continuity of the Bush and Obama administrations on things like secret law, the rapidly expanding domestic surveillance panopticon, and drone warfare (began by Bush but massively increased under Obama) bears this out.


The Trump Effect Is Local? by Caroline Guzzlefuck - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:08:51 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395073 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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My city is gearing up for big elections this year. Mayor and the city council are all being voted on.

Anyway, for the first time ever, weirdos are signing on.

Besides the serious candidates we have -

A homeless man who once tipped over a portapotty with someone in it over a $20 debt.

A guy who is like some weird sort of Vermin Supreme, but just wears nothing but boxers instead of a boot and isn't funny at all.

A legit insane person. This one is kinda sad. She had surgery years back, and ended up with a brain bleed that put her in a wheel chair, AND made her crazy. Gangstalking, Bildebergers, HAARP, flouride is making frogs gay, crazy.

This is all new. Never before have so many misfits (and there may be more....like 9 people are vying for one seat in a ward I don't live in...)

Is this...The Trump Effect?
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Henry Chacklepan - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 16:49:22 EST ID:IDbG1sVj No.395137 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395075
lmao
>>
Cedric Duddleten - Sun, 30 Jul 2017 06:51:16 EST ID:mtoAMITB No.395231 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395073

OP this is how democracy is supposed to work. democracy isnt supposed to be just for the people who can run huge campaigns and convince people en mass to vote for them, it should be regular people, you and me getting out there and convincing people that if they support you, you can fix the issues you have in your area. it shouldnt just be for the career polticians, lawyers and businesspeople, it should be us.

there is always going to be people like that, it might be a new thing in america, but in the uk and australia they have always had people like this. it likely has nothing to do with trump.
>>
Polly Blathercocke - Wed, 02 Aug 2017 18:05:23 EST ID:kosw8Fl2 No.395345 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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lol, fake donald trump tweets

i made one myself not too long ago
>>
Oliver Trotshit - Wed, 02 Aug 2017 19:07:40 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395346 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>395345
Sometimes the real ones are funny too...
>>
Oliver Trotshit - Wed, 02 Aug 2017 19:10:07 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395347 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>395346
nb


The Japanese government is crashing and burning by Molly Gucklechetch - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 02:37:45 EST ID:PStQUs2Y No.394982 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I know The Culture Wars is the hottest reality show this season, but lets branch out a little bit yeah?

The ruling Liberal Democratic Party have been enduring non stop gaffes and scandals so far this year, from defense minister Tomomi Inada being a fucking idiot
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201707190026.html
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201706300021.html
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201706150037.html

To the ham fisted ramming through of controversial bills and the proposed constitutional amendment
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201707100028.html
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201706270034.html
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201706170032.html

To the corruption scandal that's probably going to force Abe out (for a second time)
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/tag/moritomo-gakuen/
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Clara Poblingpine - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 10:01:43 EST ID:rkZKMlHk No.394986 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I don't get Japan, their so complacent!
>>
Priscilla Cushhood - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:47:49 EST ID:gUz78zDV No.394987 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394984
two biggest parties are Liberal Democrats and Democrats (i know, kinda confusing). Liberal Democrats are in power, and have been for some time now. LDP was able to come into power largely by sucking up to occupation forces after the war. This is why there's so many Christians in it, which is weird in Japan. And the LDP is the rightist party. DP being... just center right, i guess.

So comparing to the US, imagine a scenario where the Repubs have had control of the country for like several decades. And the populace is even less politically informed and with just slightly higher voter turnout than the US. yeah, shit sucks.

live in the US now, so i haven't been keeping up as much, but throw me some questions. maybe i can answer, maybe i can't.

abe started out not too bad imo, but he just progressively worse and worse. it was around the time they started throwing around the term "abenomics" that i was like "uh-oh". not necessarily because of that, but around that time.

this whole shift back to militarism/nationalism is absolutely disgraceful. and the corruption is getting worse. used to work at a couple of government agencies (one was a short term assignment, the other was full-time). it's really fucking bad fyi. worse than the US. but then again, corporate corruption/collusion is bigger/worse in the US i suppose.

>>394986
they really are, unfortunately.
>>
John Wussleshit - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:50:06 EST ID:KVQJ8U2S No.394988 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>There's wide speculation as to whether she'll attempt to bring her party across the country
>Tokyo First party

Lol yeah I'm sure that'll go over real well everywhere that isn't Tokyo.

Lol yeah I bet that'll be real popular anywhere that isn't Tokyo
>>
John Wussleshit - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:51:42 EST ID:KVQJ8U2S No.394989 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394988
Maybe I should do less drugs nb.
>>
Barnaby Gurrychidge - Fri, 28 Jul 2017 00:04:39 EST ID:PStQUs2Y No.395182 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Thing's gettin shook up, we got some wipeouts.

Defense Minister Tomomi Inada is finally resigning, along with the head of the Ground Self Defense Forces General Toshiya Okabe, over the South Sudan coverup. Foreign Affairs minister Fumio Kishida is expected to double as Defense Minister until a new one is appointed in the coming cabinet shuffle.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20170727_34/

The bottom line of that scandal is that under the current rules the JSDF can only operate as peacekeepers in areas under official ceasefire to eliminate the chance of them getting involved in combat. The JSDF in South Sudan were mostly involved in logistics and infrastructure but as the civil war heated up last year the region they were operating in became an active combat zone, a fact that was hidden from the Japanese public. Daily reports submitted by the troops on the ground were concealed and claimed destroyed by the defense ministry until digital copies were found and they couldn't keep up the denials.

Inada's career has been overseen closely by Shinzo Abe from the beginning, they are both members of the ultra nationalist, openly revisionist group Nippon Kaigi and he has taken her under his wing, with speculation before shit started to hit the fan he was grooming her as his successor. Abe is pretty much on lock to reshuffle his cabinet next week in the hopes of reversing his government's death spiral and Inada was expected to be quietly removed from the post then, her ouster now, and her words about it "I hope the buck will stop with me here" shows she's being thrown under the bus to save her boss, from this particular scandal at least. Personally, I'll miss watching her twist in the wind,, and for posterity here's one of her greatest hits, visiting the Yasukini Shrine, and its enshrined war criminals, two days after visiting Pearl Harbour.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/01/07/national/media-national/inadas-yasukuni-visit-sinks-pearl-harbor-gesture


Meanwhile, the opposition is restructuring itself, Democratic Party Secretary General, former Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda, and party President Renho have both stepped down to allow the party to pursue a new direction, and return to respectability as a viable opposition party.
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201707270026.html

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How to Slash spending Military spending without weakening the force by Simon Foffingforth - Fri, 14 Jul 2017 01:58:02 EST ID:rkZKMlHk No.394648 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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The biggest waste in our government is price gouging that corruption has allowed to occur.

A good example of this is TransDigm, a company that charged the military for $640 toilet seats, just for instance.
https://theintercept.com/2017/04/13/contractor-whose-business-model-is-price-gouging-the-pentagon-has-powerful-wall-st-backers.

It's little surprise that lead TransDigm representatives gave millions of dollars to lobby congress to reject spending acts that would curtail this theft.

Here's the price-tag we've paid on everyday objets.
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/news/vw-18804_1_nut

>NORMAL SCREW: $37
>COFFEE MAKER: $7,622
>TOILET SEAT: $640
>HAMMER: $435
>WRENCH $469
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Matilda Bundlebire - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 01:05:45 EST ID:NEFFIYTz No.395101 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Pretty much all government contractors make their money by ripping the government off. Used to work for construction chem manufacturers; they sell shoddy products that don't meet spec to shitty contractors that build roads with the minimum spec requirements so they can tear them up a couple years later and rebuild them.

You'd need a whole army of inspectors to keep government money from waste, and even then, where's that money gonna go? Government programs spend everything they are alloted so they don't get their budgets slashed. All you'd see is an increase in in expenditures on high end coffee machines and printers.
>>
Caroline Guzzlefuck - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 01:33:52 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395102 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395101
Maybe they need to change that rule.
>>
Frederick Brurrysat - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:46:23 EST ID:Vwoc9qnJ No.395114 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395100
>"all the facts"
>click on ID
>literally no facts
wow, color me surprised.
>>
Hannah Bladgenork - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:25:48 EST ID:EkRX+tDd No.395155 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395114

demonstrate where and how im wrong - without any sort of emotional appeal. i dont care an 8 year old died. i only care about the bigger objective, which is killing the fuck out of muslim terror networks. i will concede sometimes were not targeting them all consistently, and were not even tackling the biggest elephant in the room, which is wahhabism funded by saudi arabia. but muh oil..
>>
George Barddock - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 23:42:31 EST ID:Vwoc9qnJ No.395180 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395155
>demonstrate where and how im wrong
you can't be wrong if you've posited nothing. so hey, at least you have that going for you.


A simple political analysis of Detroit Michigan. by Hugh Blollychet - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:01:56 EST ID:rkZKMlHk No.394994 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Possibly the best example of a once great city that has declined.
While a great tragedy, it is also a great study in societal success and failure.

A lot of people think that Detroit started when Ford founded his company off of the sweat of his brow and was brought down by government regulations. This is only partially true. I think it's important, before I begin to do a brief history of Detroit's economy.

Detroit started as a French fort to control the fur trade. With cannons and muskets they enforced trade and bought fur and sold booze to the natives.

Eventually, America owned Detroit after they seceded from the U.K.

The city was burnt down in 1805 due to a lack of a fire department and was rebuilt by authorization of the United States Congress. The territorial US government devised a plan based off of Washington D.C and Paris which allowed for increased traffic and built the foundation for the city.

As compensation for the fire, citizens got free land to build upon. This private ownership helped increased autonomy.

They got their first industry as they bought local wheat and milled it into flour, shipping it to urban centers in the East.
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Polly Hundlebanks - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:07:33 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.395002 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394994
Here's a good summary of what happened, touching on what others in this thread have mentioned. tl;dr, where you draw the tax borders matters:
https://darwinbondgraham.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/killing-detroit/
>An analysis of Detroit and 28 of the independent suburban towns and cities above 8 Mile Road, mostly in Oakland County, shows clearly how the massive, unsustainable debt came about. Just between 1999 and 2011 the annual median household income for Detroit’s residents fell by $4,300, from $29,500 to $25,100. The number of unemployed doubled from 7.8 to 15.5 percent of the adult population, with many of these job losses resulting from the 2008 financial crisis.
>A handful of the Oakland County suburbs, mostly those bordering the city along 8 Mile Road also saw the incomes of their residents drop, and joblessness rise causing fiscal problems for these governments also. The rest of Oakland County prospered over the same period, however.
>For example, the aptly-named Beverly Hills, a small incorporated village about 7 miles from Detroit has seen the median family income of its residents grow by $12,700 over the last twelve years, from $90,300 to $103,100 today. In a few other Oakland County enclaves families register incomes more than double the nation’s average, three times that of Detroit. These cities, towns, and villages, many of them incorporated in the 1950s and 1960s expressly to absorb white migrants bailing from Detroit, are fiscally healthy units of government. Oakland County today maintains a AAA bond rating from Moody’s and uses this to finance many of the smaller townships, villages, and school districts in its limits. Bloomfield Hills School District has maintained a AAA credit rating thanks to its wealthy residents who are solidly in the top 20 percent of US income earners. Ratings on much of Detroit’s paper ranges from speculative to junk status, often with “negative outlooks,” a phrase in the industry that means downgrades are likely.
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Molly Fudgelock - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:45:32 EST ID:EkRX+tDd No.395004 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394997

everything can somehow be blamed on racism. absolutely any single problem you can think of has a reductionist route all the way back to the jews in egypt.
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Fucking Fashlack - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:21:58 EST ID:rcI0vLYr No.395023 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394998
You're ignoring the elephant in the room.
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Sophie Nablingdon - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 21:08:46 EST ID:D3IZqUk/ No.395089 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394998
Especially when the 61% that left had 90% of the money.
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Caroline Guzzlefuck - Thu, 27 Jul 2017 00:02:22 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395099 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>395023
>You're ignoring the elephant in the room.


Utah has had it up to here with Trump by David Sunnerkit - Thu, 22 Jun 2017 12:46:50 EST ID:JCI8Q5Ex No.394013 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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So even Utah, one of the most reliable Republican strongholds in the country, is getting fed up with Trump. Jason Chaffetz, a Mormon Republican rep who is stepping down to run for governor, apparently finally feels free enough now to speak his mind about the Orange One:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/338408-chaffetz-trump-administration-almost-worse-than-obamas
>“The reality is, sadly, I don't see much difference between the Trump administration and the Obama administration. I thought there would be this, these floodgates would open up with all the documents we wanted from the Department of State, the Department of Justice, the Pentagon,” Chaffetz said.
>“In many ways, it's almost worse because we're getting nothing, and that's terribly frustrating and, with all due respect, the attorney general has not changed at all. I find him to be worse than what I saw with [former Attorney General] Loretta Lynch in terms of releasing documents and making things available. I just, that's my experience, and that's not what I expected,” he said.

Meanwhile, latest poll shows Trump has a majority unfavorable rating in the state:
http://www.utahpolicy.com/index.php/features/today-at-utah-policy/13554-poll-majority-of-utahns-view-president-trump-unfavorably

So how do Trumpets explain losing the favor of such a reliable red state? Cracks in the Republican coalition? Conspiracy by the Mormon Mafia? Revenge for fucking with Romney? Cuckservatives? An incompatibility between moderate Mormon morality vs. frogposting edgelord xenophobia? Or maybe a recognition of the long-term damage that Trump's divisive, corrupt incompetence does to the conservative movement overall?

Trump may very well keep the Evangelical South and the future till the end of time, but the periphery of American conservatism seems to be losing patience. How long until more conservative communities start to get disillusioned?
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Polly Hundlebanks - Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:58:55 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.395005 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>394205
Some more in-depth analysis and numbers of the intrastate rift Trump caused in the party:
http://gazette.com/mormons-trump-and-mcmullin-a-2016-postmortem-by-the-numbers/article/1607405
>Trump won the nomination anyway, much to the consternation of many Latter-day Saints who were concerned about his personal moral standards, his baiting of Muslims, and his hardline stance on immigration. So it’s little wonder that when orthodox Mormon Evan McMullin emerged as a third-party protest candidate at the eleventh hour, he attracted a groundswell of support. McMullin wound up receiving about 21% of the vote in Utah, while Trump got 46%, according to Utah turnout data.

>That was the lowest support any Republican presidential candidate has garnered in Utah in recent memory. In 2008, nearly two-thirds of Utahns voted for the GOP candidate, and in, 2012 – when fellow Mormon Mitt Romney was on the ticket — nearly three-quarters did.

>There are some interesting differences here. Mormon Republicans who preferred McMullin were less likely to have a tattoo and more likely to view religion as a positive force in society. They were also twice as likely as Trump voters to think that racial diversity is a positive trend in America and that immigrants strengthen American society. Gary Johnson supporters were more likely to support same-sex marriage, but a little less likely to believe that homosexuality should be accepted by society. Mormon Republicans who preferred Trump were more likely to be military veterans and believe that government is almost always wasteful, similar to those that supported Johnson.
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Fucking Fashlack - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:25:46 EST ID:rcI0vLYr No.395007 Ignore Report Quick Reply
cuckservatives. Also chaffetz is loyal to race before religion and that explains his political compass more than anything else
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Hannah Baffingsutch - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:45:23 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.395011 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395007
Chaffetz is a a Trump loyalist in the Sessions vein. He would burn the world down for that asshat.
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Beatrice Brookhall - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:38:35 EST ID:D3IZqUk/ No.395026 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394871
And that was before Russia hacked into our election infrastructure in over 40 states and led a massive highly targeted social media propaganda campaign using bots to sway the election. Now that they've done all that, and did it to help Trump win, Trump saying this shit is beyond ridiculous. He deserves to be gunned down in the street as a traitor.
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Ebenezer Cellywater - Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:46:15 EST ID:thqgAOE8 No.395027 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>395007
>Also chaffetz is loyal to race before religion
I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean, but Chaffetz's religion doesn't care what race the country is as long as it's Mormon. Maybe they cared at one point, but nowadays the fastest growing part of the church is Hispanics and other brown people. Trump's wall and deportations and travel bans threatens their world domination plans.

If it comes down to loyalty to Trump or loyalty to his religious community, of course the guy is gonna side with his faith and his state. No surprise there.


Abolishing Political Parties by Nicholas Mollywill - Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:01:10 EST ID:D3IZqUk/ No.394802 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Why the fuck in this day and age do political parties even exist? It just becomes a contest to see who can tap into people's tribalism the most and get them to hate the other guys. If politicians had to actually run on their own ideas and beliefs maybe we would have campaigns that were actually focused on the issues rather than just us vs them tribal hatred. Many people have views that don't match up with what any party believes and the issues they hold important may not mesh well with the candidates in either party. First past the post voting and political parties need to be abolished. You should be able to vote for the candidate who most reflects your actual individual views on the various issues and the candidates should be able to evaluate each issue on its own merits without being beholden to party loyalty. Basically everyone agrees that partisanship is a giant problem and I think if we want to begin to fix it, it starts with abolishing political parties.
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Cedric Senkintune - Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:58:50 EST ID:D3IZqUk/ No.394923 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394813
You don't have to dismantle the entire framework of government to abolish political parties. Everything would still function the same way. In the legislature, representatives would go and discuss each issue and vote on it however they felt after the debate. It would put the process back on the debate and make that a more integral part of the process. Now the legislation is written, usually by ALEC or other industries and passed along to the leadership. If the leadership comes to a deal with the lobbyists then the leadership will begin to whip the votes needed making sure to stress party loyalty. Instead of being a debate about the ideas it just becomes a negotiation between the party leadership and its members. Others not in the party in power are shut out of the process entirely.

In the executive, they would just have to hire whoever they thought was best for the job without looking at what "team" they're on. It would lead to a better representation of the actual viewpoints held by people the government serves because there would be no way to filter people based on how loyal you think they will be, simply based on how effective you think they will be. Everyone would still be a team of people working together in the roles our system has created, they could still be fired if they didn't do their job. I'm not suggesting anarchy here and I have no idea how you leapt to that conclusion.
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Nell Povingchark - Fri, 21 Jul 2017 03:46:25 EST ID:hqvbzzHo No.394927 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394923

Well, might as well discuss these things for future generations because its clear the current civilization is running its course, potentially taking the earth with it. Anarchy only became a word when it needed to because the modern state has not been a part of human history for long. Some say well, that's cause human history hasn't reach such a peak of industrial tech, its the most efficient way. I say its also proven to be inefficient; it drains resources at a alarming amount and basic science shows that this hurts the planet in multiple ways. Science is often wasted on market research and war, instead of advancement and if you look at military budgets in the us vs NASA its true.

Now you say, the USA are not the end all be all. That's true, but the USA exists because of these very systems, throwing it into motion. A global powerhouse almost ultimately always will exist within this economic system - the more modest nations in the west hate to believe it but their well being and prosperity depends upon the violence of such nations. If not the USA itd be Russia or china or so on. This is the reality, because the very structure of a political system is there to keep power over people, to expand hegemony of a certain group over another. This isn't just the Soviet Unions forming its the modern world as a whole

Does this mean I'm screaming anarchy? Well I'm just acknowledging the real. I don't give a fuck about voting because there's no reason for me to trust one individual or a group of individuals who have more wealth and power than me, will have my best interest at heart. Call me when humanity decides to evolve instead of self destruct and I'll consider a political system and idea.. That goes for utopian visions of some modern anarchy paradise too. I'll believe it when I see something good happening with it.
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Priscilla Shittingbury - Fri, 21 Jul 2017 21:08:53 EST ID:DtS18BPG No.394943 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>394927
What about voting on ideas directly?
And having "representatives" only exist to brainstorm new ideas which can then be voted on by the people. Use modern tech, to livestream things and make the public easily access the voice and work it can do.
For instance, if I am driving down the road and see a stop light post hit and see a group responding and repairing it. It's causing traffic. Perhaps I have some technical skill in electricity or simple labor that could allow me to help restore flow. Modern fucking bureaucracy makes it so that in order to work there, I would have to formally apply within a system (in person or online), complete a series of tests, formal this, train, blah blah blah.
This is slow.
If 4skin could figure the location of a flag so quick, modern tech combined with potential human ingenuity could go a long way.
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Beatrice Sammerson - Sat, 22 Jul 2017 18:14:46 EST ID:D3IZqUk/ No.394969 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394943
Good idea. We can crowdsource the actual decisions in government, not just the decision of who hires all the people who make those decisions. I don't think it would be a good idea for all decisions but it's worth a shot for some of them, especially if you still hire everyone for all the roles and just have them consult with them consult with people either in the brainstorming process or letting them choose between options the government employee presents them or a mixture of both. Obviously people who more of an interest and expertise in particular interests would participate in the voting for each interest so it seems like a good way of allowing people who care about an issue have an actual say in it.
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Caroline Gabblewell - Sat, 22 Jul 2017 19:57:16 EST ID:IIsxRMZh No.394970 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>394969
So...we need national referendums?


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