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Putin Did It by Cornelius Blythewater - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 09:03:21 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.390898 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1492347801213.png -(241536B / 235.88KB, 704x949) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 241536
What are you guys' thoughts on this new phenomena of blaming everything on Putin/Russia? It seems to me that Trump's victory has caused the Democrats to absolutely lose their minds. All rationality and logic has been thrown out the window, and the party line has become "Blame Russia." British conspiracy theorist Louise Mensch has been catapulted into stardom because of this, being dubbed a "Russian Expert" by the New York Times, and Liberal media clamoring over her every word.

Is this the death of the Democrats? As a Leftist, this has made it really difficult for me to reconcile with them. Pic related, Louise accusing Antifa of being Russian shills.
>>
Archie Fangernock - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:08:25 EST ID:o1Jg7QcY No.390902 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>one known conservative party conspiracy theorist makes a post about a conspiracy defaming the left
>this proves Democrats have lost their minds somehow

I'm willing to bet you're not as leftist as you claim to be...
>>
Cornelius Blythewater - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:51:15 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.390906 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390902

I bet I'm more Leftist than you'll ever be, as evidenced by the fact that I'm not defending the Democratic Party from their self-inflicted wounds.

Why are you fixating on Louise anyhow? As though I'm not addressing a greater issue? Yes, I'm using her as the most blatant example of this hysteria, but she's certainly not the only example of the American Left losing their marbles. Take for example liberal darling, Rachel Maddow:

>The Intercept conducted a quantitative study of all 28 TRMS episodes in the six-week period between February 20 and March 31. Russia-focused segments accounted for 53 percent of these broadcasts.
https://theintercept.com/2017/04/12/msnbcs-rachel-maddow-sees-a-russia-connection-lurking-around-every-corner/

I'm curious what your agenda is. The Democrats and media have been bleating on about Russia for months now, for everyone to hear. And here you stand, denying it. Are you deaf, blind? Even then, that wouldn't be an excuse. Helen Keller was an intelligent, aware Socialist.

There is no denying that the Democrats are invoking a new Cold War, inciting Russian witch-hunts. The question I pose is: how will this affect the Democrats going forward?
>>
Augustus Bruttinghall - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:04:03 EST ID:NY3ouz89 No.390910 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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What they need to realize is it isn't Russia and the Russian government as much as it is the Russian mafia, which operated out of Trump hotels and had association to a massive money laundering scheme in Russia that may have been ignored or tacitly approved by the Russian government.

Trump is less Putin's bitch and more the Russian mafia's bitch

http://goo.gl/nMz6Rp
>>
Cornelius Blythewater - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:14:26 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.390912 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Okay, so... Louise is crazy, and Rachel is crazy... But that's not all Democrats, right? How about Zac Petkanas, Democratic strategist for the Hillary Clinton and Harry Reid campaigns?

Everything is a Russian plot with these people. They're just as insane as the Conservatives are/were when it comes to George Soros, Obama's birth certificate, etc.

But me thinks that there are Democratic voters, who still hold logic and sanity in high regard, who are going to be disgusted by the way Democrats are behaving. I don't think any significant Democratic leader has stepped back in self-reflection, asking what went wrong in November 2016. Have the Democrats made note of their error and resolved to do better? Or are we just going to we hear about how it was rigged for the next 4 years, they dindu nothin wrong, and Hillary was a queen?

>>390910

Oh please, you're just as crazy.
>>
Augustus Bruttinghall - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:21:58 EST ID:NY3ouz89 No.390913 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390912
https://www.palmerreport.com/politics/treasury-donald-trump-money-laundering/2319/
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/house-intel-member-heads-to-russias-money-laundering-island-cyprus-to-investigate-trump-collusion/
>>
George Bloddlecocke - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 16:33:33 EST ID:MqC/+Wc8 No.390921 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390912
This board is -infested- with neo-mccarythist shills. The userbase actually used to be sensible and capable of critical thought (for the most part). However, as soon as "teh russians did it!!!1" headlines started rolling in on CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc before the election, the exact same sentiment appeared en masse on this board all of a sudden without question -- and those that dare to criticize it are labelled as "Kremlin shills", "Putinbots", etc. It never ceases to amaze me how easily the population falls for this shit time after time again. I mean who the fuck still has any smidge of respect/trust for the mainstream media anymore? Only six corporations own 95% of American media, is it really that far fetched for people to believe their opinion has been manipulated by those talking heads who are paid to do so?

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
>>
Eugene Beffingcocke - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 18:49:09 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.390924 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390921
>Only six corporations own 95% of American media, is it really that far fetched for people to believe their opinion has been manipulated by those talking heads who are paid to do so?
There's a huge gap between believing everything American media says and believing anything Russian state media says.
Russian media makes American media look totally decentralized, independent, unbiased, and perfectly objective.

It's not just a case of American vs Russian media, there are hundreds of non-american and independent sources that regularly indicate that Russian media is absolutely full of shit.
Pic related, either Russia blatantly fabricated their report, or MSF lied and is controlled by the American government, who also bombed them.
>>
Jack Nicklewell - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:05:14 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.390925 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The person you're responding to didn't say anything about the Russian media whatsoever. When someone criticizes the US you don't have to go "BUT RUSSIA!" every time. It's pissing distracting nonsense (that doesn't even need to be said) into the discourse. The Russian government is absolutely god awful. We don't need to be reminded of it every time the fact that the American government and media are also god awful comes up. It becomes annoying and takes away from necessary conversations.
>>
Jack Nicklewell - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:05:35 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.390926 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390924

meant to reply to this post
>>
Basil Nickleson - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:37:22 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.390928 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390924
You're kind of proving his point. The fact that Russia's media is corrupt is totally unrelated to the criticisms he made. It's like bringing up Russia as a response to criticisms of America is an automatic reflex for you.
>>
Albert Fenderbetch - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:29:12 EST ID:sMjBd+5i No.390929 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390928
Sounds like what a lot of the pro-Putin folks do.
>>
Edwin Hiddleway - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:33:39 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.390930 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390925 >>390928
The fact that he is even using the word mccarthism suggests he's fallen victim to their propaganda.

Opposing the Syrian civil war, foreign powers hacking political parties and selectively releasing information for the purpose of subverting democracy to their benefit, and a regional power waging an expansionist war right next door to NATO members are American issues before they're Russian issues.
The Russian perspective is that the only reason one would pursue such issues is that they're trying to oppose Russia.
The non-Russian perspective is that those issues directly affect America and must be pursued for the security of America.
>>
Augustus Duckcocke - Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:50:03 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.390931 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390929
So, what, pro-Putin posters act like retards so that means you have to, as well?
>>
Albert Fenderbetch - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 00:08:50 EST ID:sMjBd+5i No.390932 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390931
No, just pointing out that this is a serious pot/kettle thing.
>>
Isabella Brundlewill - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 06:59:19 EST ID:D3IZqUk/ No.390934 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This is the single largest scandal to hit American politics ever. It's crazy that there's not more press covering it. The other day we got a reputable source saying there was concrete evidence proving Trump's team colluded with the Russians in regards to hacked material. They had over 1/4 of all traffic on twitter with their bots at times during the election. They had hundreds of fake news sites and thousands of professional trolls paid to post on social media. They've killed people to cover it up. Trump has extensive ties to the Russian mob. This is only such a small story now because of extensive shilling operations by the Russians. This is a war for people's minds and America is losing as evidenced by posts like this. I would like to think you were a paid shill, but I realize that they have brainwashed so many people at this point that it's more likely you're not.
>>
Frederick Hommergold - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 09:22:17 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.390935 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP, it's just a last-ditch effort to hurt the Republicans. Nothing more. I mean, it's obvious as hell to anyone paying attention that little to no connection has been made to Russia from Trump's team, and that furthermore the Democrats have already admitted that their security leak was their own fault and that no voting booths were hacked in any way.

This is literally just the Democrats swinging their fists after they got knocked down. But I mean of course your fellow leftists are falling for it hook-line-and-sinker; they despise Trump so much thanks to liberal propaganda that they refuse to let go of any single thing that could possibly 'ruin' his presidency.
>>
Samuel Clandlewill - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:23:00 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.390937 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390934

It's you vs the world huh? Why didn't you think to include this concrete evidence? Why wouldn't Rachel Maddow obsessively focus on it? Even if Trump we're connected to Russian gangster, does it mean that WikiLeaks is a Russian propaganda? Does it mean that Antifa are Russian actors? This goes beyond Donald Trump. It's about Dumbocrats seeing a Russian boogeyman in every shadow.

Btw, I'd happily be a shill. Russia should hit me up, I'd happily canvas for a few hundred dollars a month. Let me know what's good, Putin, you got my email.
>>
Sophie Worthingman - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:44:32 EST ID:wPIzNzTk No.390938 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This shit is hilarious to me. There are so many legitimate issues we could be focusing on but instead Democrats want to rekindle a boogeyman. Fuckin a

>>390935
liberals are not the left
>>
Cornelius Bembleway - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:47:14 EST ID:bMjekVKn No.390939 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390935
This.
Its a propaganda effort coming from the deep state. The democrats directly hired a propaganda companycalled Crowdstrike to concoct the narrative on the Trump-russia issue.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/23/cybersecurity-firm-that-attributed-dnc-hacks-to-russia-may-have-fabricated-russia-hacking-in-ukraine/
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=18802
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t9dn2YjK7Y
>>
Frederick Hommergold - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:47:50 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.390940 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390938
Well, let's hear your definitions then.
>>
Frederick Hommergold - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:51:19 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.390941 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390939
This is all very interesting, but sadly the sources are unreliable. The comments section is riddled with questions and criticisms of the article. I think this is all very interesting, but in order to really move forward with these links we'd need to do an in-depth analysis of the 'facts' presented in the articles. I think it's most likely the case that while some are true, others are false or are reaches.
>>
Archie Cuffingforth - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:59:51 EST ID:Yh0dEBHV No.390942 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390939
Trumpbot detected.
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:30:59 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390944 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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The left is irrelevant in the united states (unless you call being a globalist liberal pawn being left, lol) unless you pull off some Trump tier grassroots campaign.

Oh wait, you had bernie but instead of rallying against the DNC many became disenfranchised or moved onto hillary because social pressure is one hell of a drug. And instead of seeing the "fake news" narrative for what it was, an assault on the mind, many took it hook, line, and sinker because it validated their own frustration with the previous administrations compounded with a Trump victory.

Also, western media defends antifa like their own personal shock troops, so don't pretend like your borderline terrorist organization is something more than misguided plebians attacking other working class citizens instead of unifying with those you may disagree with with ypur true enemies.
>>
William Bengerbury - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:42:03 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.390946 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Anybody who still denies Russian involvement in the DNC hacks is living in some warped news bubble of denial.

I understand your deep concern trolling for the Democrats "absolutely losing their minds" but it's now an established fact by both Democrats and Republicans in congress.

Even Trump has acknowledged it, because he's seen the intelligence. The House and Senate Intelligence committee was broadcast life where the head of the FBI and several private and government cybersecurity personnel also put forth the fact.

So if you're still a denier, you need to watch these hearing and educate yourself. The evidence is mounting by the day.

Unless of course your claiming that FBI Director Comey is somehow a Democrat? Or new head of the CIA Mike Pompeo, who also regurgitated this crap even egging people on about it - until now?

Now he's calling Wikileaks and a "hostile intelligence agency."

The reason is simple. The Russians will just as gleefully turn there cyber-warfare department on the GOP and they realize it. Several high named Republicans were also hacked, yet their emails never made it to Wikileaks for publishing.

It's hilarious how by many the idea Russia has or would use cyberwarfare is completely unbelievable, but Hillary running a pedo ring out of a pizza place is completely believable.

And the Glenn Greenwald crew is just mad because they want to continue to believe that Wikileaks is an "anti-secrecy group" and not just a tool run by a bitter criminal who mentally been deteriorating for years.

Also, if there was nothing to see why did so many from the Trump campaign lie about their contacts with Russians? If they hadn't done that it probably would've played better for them. Carter Page got a FISA warrant slapped on him, no easy feat.

And remember, the Trump Administration Russian investigation started in Great Britain where it was first detected. So simultaneously while Comey was re-opening the Clinton Email investigation 3 weeks before the election, Trump was also under criminal investigation.

Schiff said there's "more than circumstantial evidence." Nunes basically obstructed justice to put and end to the House intelligence investigation and then recused himself. Flynn looking for immunity....

The whole thing stinks. The only /tinfoil people out there now are those that don't believe the facts of the case.

Deep State...fucking LOL
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:43:31 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390947 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390924
>missing and validating the point this hard

Hey dipshit, this isn't a debate between the honesty of american and russian MSM
>>
Simon Billingville - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 13:58:44 EST ID:/iqtulKC No.390949 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390940
I'll concede that there's no consensus on the definition. It varies depending on who you ask. As someone on the far left, I don't like being lumped in with THOSE people. So, let's define some terms:

Democrats are liberals. Liberals support capitalism while superficially espousing some left ideology like social safety nets, environmentalism, social equity, take your pick, while also benefiting from and exploiting the very institutions that reinforce these problems.

>pic related
Also see Justin Trudeau and Cory Booker. They're the newest generation. Conventionally attractive, cameras are always rolling when they're doing something for the community so they have great optics, but when you follow the money it's the same deal.

Some may consider liberals centrists, but I'm not really sure. Either way they oppose the left vehemently as seen during the primary, general election, and even now. There are still Shillary dipshits blaming Sanders, third party voters, and fucking Susan Sarandon for their failure. They'd rather lose than indulge the left!

Fuck em
>>
Samuel Clandlewill - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:14:55 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.390950 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390944

You made good points until

>western media defends antifa like their own personal shock troops, so don't pretend like your borderline terrorist organization is something more

Yeah, this doesn't happen. The media does not defend antifa, you're a fucking idiot. Seriously, show me one example of the media praising Antifa. It doesn't happen. Secondly, terrorism is just a bourgeois term to describe people who don't follow bourgeois law.

>misguided plebians attacking other working class citizens instead of unifying with those you may disagree with with ypur true enemies.

How right you are! The Soviets should've laid down their guns and tried to find common ground with the Nazi soldiers.

No, you fucking idiot. Fascist collaborators aren't gonna sit down to talk things out, they're gonna throw your ass in jail and have things their way. Get them before they get you.
>>
Jenny Sobberdan - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:14:36 EST ID:8I3ViJfk No.390951 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390950
>terrorism is just a bourgeois term to describe people who don't follow bourgeois law.
I just rolled my eyes so hard at this that I detached a retina.
>>
Archie Tillingshit - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:25:52 EST ID:iYYYad4Q No.390952 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390950

>How right you are! The Soviets should've laid down their guns and tried to find common ground with the Nazi soldiers.

I wasn't aware that Antifa and the alt right fighting like retards was the same thing as fucking world war ii.
>>
Martin Blythebury - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:36:17 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.390953 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390946

>but it's now an established fact by both Democrats and Republicans in congress.

Just like the evidence for the Iraq War.

How many times do you have to piss into someone's fucking eyes before they figure out what you're doing? Does Nancy Pelosi have to come fuck your mouth with a strapon before you get a goddamn clue? You still take your government at its word? You still take all these clowns at their word? How many times are you going to let yourself be a chump? Where the fuck have you been the past 20 years? 50?

>Deep State...fucking LOL

Clueless or complicit?
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:47:14 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390954 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390950
>Fascist collaborators aren't gonna sit down to talk things out

Funny how you just described antifa in a nutshell
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:49:39 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390955 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Does anyone have any actual evidence of Russian collusion or are we simply operating on assumption and quotes from CNN these days!
>>
Samuel Clandlewill - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:50:10 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.390956 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390951

Good, you deserve bad things.

>>390952

>I wasn't aware that Antifa and the alt right fighting like retards was the same thing as fucking world war ii.

Conflict is conflict, big or small. You don't think Nazi soldiers "working class citizens"? They were people like you or me, difference being they made a conscious decision to do the bidding of fascists, and once you do that, you can't hide under the title of "working class citizens" when the Antifa comes knocking.

I don't give a shit about who you are — what color you are, what gender you are, what country you heil from, whether you come wealthy or poor background. What matters is your ideology. What do you believe? What are you striving for? Who do you fight for?

When a bunch of neo-nazis show up preaching their hate, it doesn't matter that they work at McDonald's, just like it doesn't matter that the Nazi soldiers operating the gas chambers was previously a stable boy. And when the ideology dictates death and imprisonment of their opponents, you can't sit idle and expect to have a conversation.

Btw, still waiting on that evidence of the media heralding antifa. Let's see it boys!!!! lol, I already know you aren't going to find any evidence. I follow antifa closely, I always check out the media coverage of antifa, and they never have anything nice to say. It's always "This is the wrong way to go about doing things."

The media doesn't want you getting violent, they don't want you fighting against the establishment. Beyond moronic to claim otherwise. The American Left isn't even embracing Antifa anymore, they're accusing them of being Russian shills, of being undercover Trumptards sabotaging the Left. That's fine tho, the Antifa doesn't want the backing of liberals. They're just as much an enemy.
>>
Martin Blythebury - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:51:33 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.390957 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390955

To be fair, the quotes from CNN come directly from government officials with no real criticism or fact checking (or even better, they say something like 'though there is no direct evidence of this' like 3/4 into the article), so it's totally not the same thing
>>
Simon Billingville - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:02:37 EST ID:/iqtulKC No.390958 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390954
Except antifascists don't support state violence and aren't jingoist stooges. It's absurd how people look at violent action and think that alone makes a fascist.
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:15:50 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390959 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390958
It's fascist because antifa are semiorganized thugs who aren't actually interested in systemic change, and are complacent with the system. Perhaps go after, oh i don't know, infrastructure rather than potential allies they just pigeonhole into a stereotype and hypocritically claim to oppose fascism by beating other fellow working class folk, and im not referring to law enforcement btw
>>
Simon Billingville - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:58:33 EST ID:/iqtulKC No.390961 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390959
>I've never met a black bloc antifascist: the post

You have no idea what you're talking about

>pigeonhole into a stereotype
This is exactly what you're doing, or what the propaganda you consume is doing for you.

Political groups are pretty diverse and nuanced, especially semi organized ones. Maybe you should take that to heart and speak to some so called thugs.
>>
Molly Paddleson - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:04:16 EST ID:V/t0hcAb No.390962 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390952
If you look at reportbacks from many of the recent pro-Trump and counter protests, there were openly fascist participants on the pro-Trump side. With members from the Traditionalist Workers Party, Daily Stormer, Soldiers of Odin, the Goldenstate Skinheads, a few KKK, and a few previously identified boneheads who were also a part of the 3% militia groups. Its disappointing that right-libertarians are siding with the fascists here. And come on, we know at this point that alot of alt-righters are just rebranded fascists. Such as Ivan who brags he's more nazi than Spencer.

"Why Do People On The Left Call Trump Supporters NAZIS"
https://youtu.be/U1Op6FUl7IQ

Sry aboot the off-topic post. On a side note I concur with Billingville (>>390949) that Democrats aren't leftists, if you define leftists as egalitarian and anti-capitalist. I was about to say anti-authoritarian too, but I guess Marxists are left-authoritarians, except for the autonomists. Democrats are centrists then? Their actions show they definitely oppose activists and people working outside (and against) the halls of power.
>>
Jenny Sobberdan - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:46:08 EST ID:8I3ViJfk No.390964 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390962
>Daily Stormer
>Soldiers of Odin
>Goldenstate Skinheads
Lol. Did these jackasses get there names from comic books or something? They sound kind of like Bizzarro world little league team names.
>>
Archie Cuffingforth - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 19:17:41 EST ID:Yh0dEBHV No.390965 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390964
Trash of society trying to give themselves edgey and scary names.
>>
lumpen !rGOAfuB3jA - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 21:48:16 EST ID:TLKEQYNG No.390970 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390959
White racists are never potential allies
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:01:42 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390971 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390970
But black racists are?
>>
lumpen !rGOAfuB3jA - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:26:51 EST ID:TLKEQYNG No.390973 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390971
Not really. It just wasn't very hard to figure out which "folk" you were referring to.
>>
Thomas Greenlock - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:28:26 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.390975 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390971
I'm sure he meant to say white supremacists.
Black supremacists are almost non-existent these days, rightwing news sources just love running stories like "black man standing outside polling place, how intimidating" to make them seem bigger than they are.
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:38:10 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390977 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390973
I still think you're shooting yourselves in the foot by playing the d&c game. You realize the "white racists" are pitted against you just like you are against them because it keeps both of your eyes looking away from the people organizing these non-constructive skirmishes.

Again, if antifa actually gave a shred of a fuck about revolution or systemic change, you'd go after things like power lines or roads that sustain the elite, rather than fruitlessly attack other people who hold no meaningful influence on the status quo.By the way, the same goes for the side your against too.
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:39:32 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390978 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390975
>rightwing news sources just love running stories like "black man standing outside polling place, how intimidating"

Cool story bro, post it.
>>
Thomas Greenlock - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:47:21 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.390980 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390978
Were you not around in '08 and '12 when Fox was running voter intimidation story all election week, claiming the Black Panthers were out intimidating white voters all accross the country because a tiny group entirely unrelated to the Black Panthers sent a guy to stand outside two polling places?

I'm sure they'd have run the story in 2016, but they'd look silly next to the "Trump election observers"
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:05:32 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390981 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390980

So your beef is with Fox (which you have yet to post an article about), and not really the audience which gets back to my original point im trying to get across to lumpen. You buy into it just as much as white racists and can't even tell who your true enemies are.
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Shitting Hablingmark - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:20:12 EST ID:U19RSd5a No.390982 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390975
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Thomas Greenlock - Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:49:41 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.390984 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390981
>So your beef is with Fox (which you have yet to post an article about)
Sorry, I forget how much of the new right literally never followed politics until just this election.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/new-black-panthers-back-at-philly-voting-site.html

But it's not even that specific story, you can find shit like that all over the right, from the very fact that Breitbart's site over-reports and tags articles "black crime" to the fact that the average right-winger things rich/middle class blacks commit more crime than poor whites and that welfare that makes us all stronger (unemployment, food stamps, education, medicaid) only helps blacks.
Conservatism thrives on fear and xenophobia, the narrative that the minimum wage worker depending on welfare is exploiting you and is getting more than he deserves, rather than a failure of the system who would be more productive if he'd had greater access to education, didn't face immediate starvation if he ever tried to stop employer abuses such as wage theft/bargain against his employer for higher pay/risk leaving his job to get a better one.


The true enemies are the ones who divide the working class over petty bullshit so we can't work together in our collective interests.

The fact that someone is outraged about white suicide and not suicide in general, or OK with the police summarily executing unarmed people without trial if they're black is fucked up.
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Soviet Psychonaut - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:08:52 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390986 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390984
Just so you know, i was aware of the 2012 article, but not the 2008 since i was a high schooler more interested in halo 3 and pussy, in that order, at the time.

But

>The true enemies are the ones who divide the working class over petty bullshit so we can't work together in our collective interests.

So you seem to be aware of what im talking about. Why defend or fault antifa or supremacists if they're just organs of division? By your own admission it isn't just the sensationalist propaganda spoonfed to rednecks by fox and pals, but also their own brand of tripe by left leaning sources dispensed to its own audience.

I would rally behind antifa if they actually went after the people who mattered. But they don't.
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Simon Wurringchere - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:05:32 EST ID:WQQ+NOb5 No.390989 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390986
you could go after people who mattered, too. why even bother considering supporting a group that doesn't match your values? start your own...
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Soviet Psychonaut - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:13:00 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.390990 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390989

I agree, don't let your memes stay dreams.
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Thomas Greenlock - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:36:15 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.390991 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390986
Antifa is not fascism but on the other side, it's a reaction that seeks to minimize fascism.

White supremicists divide us based on race and ideology, antifa beat up those who turn the workers against eachother, accepting all races and ideologies (though obviously pacifists and capitalists don't form antifa groups).
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Samuel Cingerpack - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 03:47:15 EST ID:V/t0hcAb No.390993 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390986
Also fascists act as an auxiliary force for the government (when fascists control the halls of power), so unless your beliefs and identity align with their decrees, you're not safe. If they don't control the government, on the street level, same thing.

The last fascist resurgence, the 80s, showed unprovoked attacks because someone who wasn't white was in the wrong place, or they looked like a hippie or a punk, or maybe looked at their girlfriend wrong. Unsure what turn this current amalgamation will take. Seeing Stickman's behavior walking around with his buddies, somewhat armed, looking for trouble, and the increased number of racist motivated vandalism seems to indicate similar.

>I would rally behind antifa if they actually went after the people who mattered. But they don't.
How do you know? Anti-fascists can be anyone actively opposed to fascism. Many are anarchists and anti-authoritarians in general. There are plenty of other ongoing projects to aid others and promote new ways.
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Emma Ponderway - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 09:15:30 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.390999 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390991
>Antifa is not fascism
Yeah, Antifa just wishes it was fascism, by that I mean antifa wishes their fascist ideologies were commonplace amongst the people, which luckily they aren't.

>White supremicists divide us based on race and ideology
That's funny, because while I never see white supremacists in the news, I see Antifa in the news a lot, because, you know, one of these groups is minding their own shitty business while the other is taking their business to every rally and protest they can infiltrate.

>antifa beat up those who turn the workers against eachother
Antifa is a big part of who is turning the workers against each other. Their violent reactions to ideas they disagree with are only furthering the divide between conservatives and liberals.
>accepting all races and ideologies
No, see, that's the thing about liberalism. Liberalism is about accepting all races but only accepting one ideology. You wanna know why pacifists and capitalists don't take part in groups like Antifa? Because pacifsts and capitalists despise Antifa and want to see them disband. Pretty much everyone who's not a liberal hates Antifa and wants it to disband. They see these events at Berkeley and they shake their heads in disgust at these reactionary liberals. Yes, Antifa is a reactionary liberal group; it's so far to the left that it's literally now somewhere between fascism and communism, which of course is going to involve reactionary ideologies.

>How do you know? (that Antifa isn't going after people who matter)
Because Antifa goes after people who are insignificant. Antifa shows up at pro-Trump or pro-conservative rallies, starts fights, and then video-tapes the fight and every person they see punching a Blac Blocker or anything like that, they stalk that person, find out all their information like their name and address, and then spread it through all their social media in an attempt to ruin those people's lives for defending themselves. That's who Antifa targets.
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Martin Feckleville - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 11:14:39 EST ID:wPIzNzTk No.391003 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390999
>thinking antifascists are liberals
Ayy lmao
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Hamilton Shakestone - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 11:26:33 EST ID:IaepfqX2 No.391004 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390999

>butchering the term "fascism" yet again

Contrary to popular belief, fascism is actually a coherent ideology and not a catch-all term for people you don't like. You can disagree with Antifa's methods or their motives (and that's completely fine), but trying to blame them of "fascism" on equal terms with social-conservative nationalists who actually support policies that actually resembles ACTUAL fascism is incredibly dishonest.

Anarchists branding everything "fascist" is often dubious, but accusing anarchists of fascism is just downright dumb.
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Sidney Fanbanks - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 11:29:58 EST ID:YPXyZD9K No.391005 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390993
>I never see white supremacists in the news
excuse me but do you live under a fucking rock by any chance?
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Simon Cemblebanks - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 12:07:57 EST ID:FqtcG9EC No.391006 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>390999
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Emma Ponderway - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:17:52 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391009 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391005
I just Googled 'White Supremacy' in News, and to be quite frank with you, literally the first 5 pages are 100% opinion articles from the last month besides one incident of a single white supremacist running around NYC with a sword. And, of course, countless articles about that chick at Berkeley getting punched. But I mean if you're a liberal then I suppose you're accustomed to seeing opinion articles about white supremacy every day of your life, while the rest of us are reading real news.
Oh gosh, white supremacy is such an ongoing problem.

>>391004
First of all I want to say thank you for presenting some interesting points.
>fascism is actually a coherent ideology and not a catch-all term for people you don't like.
You're absolutely right, and that's why I despise groups like Antifa; according to them, pretty much every non-liberal is a fascist, or is not a non-fascist, which they say is just as bad as fascism because it's 'standing by while fascism grows'. Truth be told, liberals aren't fascists. But, they are authoritarian conservatives.
"How can a liberal, someone on the way left, be an authoritarian conservative?"
Minorities are conservatives. They champion conservative values en masse. Liberals, however, champion minorities because they're smaller than the majority, and therefore also champion their conservative ideologies. For instance, caring about your own race is a very conservative ideology, and so is fighting against free speech due to disagreeing with it's message. But I mean really, there are Antifa scum who want the government abolished (anarchists) because they expect everyone to uphold civilization without it, and there's Antifa scum who want a more powerful government that has more control over the things people can say and do publicly, meaning they're essentially closeted fascists waiting for the opportunity to push their reactionary ideologies into government.
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Emma Ponderway - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:20:55 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391010 Ignore Report Quick Reply
But I mean let's be real here, if you advocate violence against peaceful people, or rationalize 'words' as violence, you're just a wannabe tyrant living in paranoia. Yet sadly that sums up Antifa.

I mean, isn't the idea of an anarchist violently forcing others to bend to their ideological will pretty hilarious and hypocritical of their own core beliefs?

Sure, punching Nazis sounds good, but like communism, it only sounds good until you make it happen. Just as communism turns into fascism, punching a nazi turns into punching an innocent bystander who you disagree with politically.
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Simon Cemblebanks - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:40:00 EST ID:FqtcG9EC No.391011 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391010
>violence against peaceful people
>nazis
>peaceful people

>I mean, isn't the idea of an anarchist violently forcing others to bend to their ideological will pretty hilarious and hypocritical of their own core beliefs?
Their only targets are fascists, nazis, proto-fascists, far right statists, radical islamists and the like. The couldn't give a fuck if you're a regular centrist even though they'd still dislike you based on pro-capitalist ideals.

>Just as communism turns into fascism
You have no idea what communism is, do you?

>punching a nazi turns into punching an innocent bystander who you disagree with politically
Good armchair philosophy but that isn't really the case

In the end you yourself feel targeted because of your racist ethnonationalist ideals, which you claim to be to totally peaceful and rainbowy.
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Sidney Fanbanks - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 15:17:54 EST ID:YPXyZD9K No.391013 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391009
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/two-cops-shot-dead-in-ambush-style-attacks-des-moines-police-say/
here's one that happened recently that comes to mind. the guy called the cops and ambushed them with with an ar-15 like he a guerilla in nam or some shit or um what words come to mind? terrorist! like a terrorist!

there have been a few attempts at carrying out bombings. the big difference between islamic terror cells and what supremacist groups is white supremacists, if they are going to blow something up, they don't shut the fuck up about it
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Phoebe Chemblefidge - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 15:42:18 EST ID:+NSAEK8g No.391015 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390986
>Just so you know, i was aware of the 2012 article, but not the 2008 since i was a high schooler more interested in halo 3 and pussy, in that order, at the time.

There's your problem kid. Now it's up to you to find out where you went wrong (as well as many other kiddies who have been indoctrinated by the "red pill of doom").
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Simon Cemblebanks - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 18:52:41 EST ID:FqtcG9EC No.391023 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391013
Shit, I don't have any weed so I can't smoke something for that cop killer. Oh, well
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Soviet Psychonaut - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:29:37 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.391027 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391015
There was no red pill of doom, just lots of lsd
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Simon Cemblebanks - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 19:31:14 EST ID:FqtcG9EC No.391028 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391027
Are you still a racist SP?
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Soviet Psychonaut - Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:10:57 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.391034 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391028

Does it matter? My personal opinions shouldn't get in the way of civil discussion.
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Thomas Fillernodge - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 02:57:43 EST ID:NPfNuNY2 No.391037 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390898
back a bit ago putin had a 90% approval rating. Right? He was head of the KGB was it not.
Back a bit ago, liberals were deemed to be commies, that was always paired with communism,
Russia. So what makes putin so great, the 'new' phenomena? Why the interest?
Palin proclaimed I can see Russia, Great. As well North Korea are our allies, Heck
Trump said more than a few times, (the world hates America) this new phenomena
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Thomas Fillernodge - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 03:10:19 EST ID:NPfNuNY2 No.391038 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391037
The KGB, was dismantled for a reason. Look up polonium, it is an element.
po
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Augustus Gabblecocke - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 06:00:12 EST ID:J+7h+tT6 No.391047 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391037
Why would you waste a perfectly good high just to post on /pol/?
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Charlotte Finningstad - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 13:37:02 EST ID:n50bchGF No.391051 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391034
Well, Trump got you to put all your trust in him by appealing to your racism, and then he betrayed that trust which seems to have upset you.

If a personal weakness of yours leaves you susceptible to the tricks of con-artists and plutocrats, then yes, it probably does matter.
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Shitting Bronderfield - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:00:47 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.391053 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391051
>If a personal weakness of yours leaves you susceptible to the tricks of con-artists and plutocrats
Why single him out though? It applies to anyone who isn't part of the .1% and believes nationalism, capitalism, or racism isn't propagated to keep them weak and unable to see or act in their personal interest.

We'd be here all day if we stopped everyone on the right to tell them they're voting against their own interests.
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Soviet Psychonaut - Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:26:32 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.391066 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391051
>>391053

Thing is, when you fling around an empty word like racism at me, I can't help but to wonder if you think you'll get a pavlovian response from me and I'll recoil out of some implied social obligation to conform to your arbitrary expectations.

You call me a racist like I give a fuck because it lets you pat yourself on the back about how virtuous you are without actually understanding where I come from or why I hold the views I do. The only thing Trump's "betrayal" (in retrospect, jack shit happened) did was reinforce my stance and realize its up to the people to organize themselves and discard the cults of personality that lead the flock astray. That's why despite me being open to nationalism, I cling to certain ideas I embraced as an anarchist to this day.

Also, let's get something straight here. I don't pretend to feel like my ethnicity or culture is better than anyone else's. All I care about is the preservation of my own. I don't care what others do unless the encroach upon my own autonomy, and I dont intend to do it onto others.

Oh and by the way, I voted for trump because he promised to halt the MIC's destroy russia policy, and because of his 2nd amendment stance. You reading into my vote because I care about his immigration policies or whatever you deem to be racist is just fucking retarded. That's not why I voted for him.
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Cornelius Haggleham - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 04:34:42 EST ID:PIL37drr No.391069 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391011
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Hamilton Sezzleman - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:58:29 EST ID:T43ZgZvA No.391076 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391069
American antifa seems somewhat different than the European version. European antifa can sometimes be just as much of a headache, if not more, as the fascists.
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Martin Fanspear - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:02:42 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391078 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391076
>European antifa can sometimes be just as much of a headache, if not more, as the fascists.
Bruh we got the exact same problems here. Trust me, Antifa is just as hated around the USA, but they hide behind their shield of 'we are the good guys' bullshit. But you know, it's like that one guy said, 'When fascism comes to America, it will be titled Americanism or anti-fascism.' Because propaganda is powerful, and so is double speak.

>>391066
Dawg, you've said exactly what most people have been thinking about the 2016 election. This whole 'racism' argument is not only totally bogus, but it keeps the left from actually creating real, constructive arguments.

It's like, the Republicans and the Democrats could work together if not for every Democrat suddenly deciding that every Republican is racist, as if that's somehow a real thing. And so long as that sort of slander and libel is normalized amongst Democrats, well, there will always be a staunch division and ain't shit gonna get accomplished. I mean, the Democrats could be constructing REAL arguments, like actual arguments based in facts, instead of 'muh racism', we could really talk turkey. It's like, show me your facts backing up your pro-illegal-immigration talk instead of just crying when someone opposes it.
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Martin Fanspear - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:03:40 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391079 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391076
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the 'fascists' of Europe standing up to the illegal immigrants/refugees that are causing constant problems?
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Hamilton Sezzleman - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:56:51 EST ID:T43ZgZvA No.391083 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391078
>Antifa is just as hated around the USA
Antifa aren't universally hated in Europe (hence why they are generally more numerous) but they are the violent wing of the left.
>>391079
No, they are just taking advantage of popular discontent to beat up nignogs. Sometimes they beat up non-white social pests which can sometimes, admittedly, be practical. However they never beat up white social pests because they normally are white social pests.
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Ernest Bonningwuck - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:17:03 EST ID:8Jh2i/ky No.391093 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391076
The German and Austrian black bloc Antifas are exactly what they need to be in those ex-Nazi nations.

If the right weren't so triggered by their appearance they actually would join them since nobody else stands up to things like G8 meetings and such.
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Basil Penkingold - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 18:01:10 EST ID:kMHRWa3R No.391099 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391078
>Trust me, Antifa is just as hated around the USA

Nah, Americans seems to get triggered more. They're more or less "new" over there after all.

Antifa is more like a fact of nature here in Europe. Nobody looses their minds over it, even when they're caught making bombs. After all, fuck nazis and fascists.
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Hamilton Sezzleman - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:28:14 EST ID:T43ZgZvA No.391105 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391099
>Antifa is more like a fact of nature here in Europe. Nobody looses their minds over it,
This. They are basically an immune over-reaction by the body politic. Much like the fascists in a way.

It's almost adorable how the Americans are learning our bitter eurofag experiences by repeating them (and thinking it's a new thing while they're at it)!
; P
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Basil Clummerwone - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:30:45 EST ID:MBZ+rwoO No.391107 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I think you can only rightly blame them for things we know they did, like run a propaganda/disinfo campaign during the election, attack American companies, etc.

But some people will just insist that the CIA was CIAing itself for some reason, and will ignore any evidence, no matter how convincing lol
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Phyllis Goodman - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:18:52 EST ID:DiXMKba0 No.391109 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391078
>what most people have been thinking about the 2016 election
Oh boy, here comes X8 to speak for the entire electorate again, based on his experiences arguing on an anonymous imageboard for stoners

>This whole 'racism' argument is not only totally bogus, but it keeps the left from actually creating real, constructive arguments.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

>It's like, the Republicans and the Democrats could work together if not for every Democrat suddenly deciding that every Republican is racist
"There was so much goodwill bipartisan work getting done in Washington before the election, what happened to that?"

>actual arguments based in facts
this from a supporter of the original birther, the same guy who dropped the "Ted Cruz's dad helped kill Kennedy" ploy, the "there were thousands of rooftop celebrations among New Jersey Muslims on 9/11" claim, the "I am going to bring back manufacturing jobs" promise, the "Mexico is gonna pay for the wall" promise, the "power and devastation are the most important parts of the nuclear triad, to me" non-answer, the "I will gladly release my tax returns if I win this election" vow, that unhinged nonsense about Obama "wiretapping" Trump Tower, and now the historically unsubstantiated logic of "the tax cuts will pay for themselves." There is a serial prevaricator in high office and it isn't a Democrat.

>pro-illegal-immigration talk
[citation needed]
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Matilda Brendershit - Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:42:21 EST ID:V/t0hcAb No.391110 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391105
>(thinking it's a new thing while they're at it)
Not really. All the struggles the world-over are linked and influence each other reciprocally. Anarchist anti-fascists in the States have studied the past and present conflicts in Europe and elsewhere, i.e. Kurds vs. Daesh, Greek anarchists vs. Golden Dawn, Autonomists vs. German neo-nazis. This ever-forming relationship extends to conflicts of anti-authoritarians against government and corporate actions. Much like how Metal transcends borders. Or how the Zapitistas aligned with the alter-globalization movement (the People's Global Action network) and against the neo-liberal project of austerity and free-trade deals like NAFTA.

>They are basically an immune over-reaction by the body politic. Much like the fascists in a way.
Could you expand on this point? The fascists were in response to communism? Their authoritarian bent were certainly similar reflections.

It was merely a matter of time until Fascism gained a tractable foothold in the States again, after their previous defeat. For awhile it was small groups, and still is mainly, but there are more groups now, and their base is much larger than before. The conflict never ended, its just been underground, not noticed by most until recently.

In response to antifa being hated in the States, I think the reason Fanspear says that is because of their opposition to antifa rather than an accurate projection of popular sentiment. I don't think most people understand who or what antifa is, their only exposure being through the vague misrepresentations of the corporate and ideologically opposing media. The problem is two-fold, the misrepresentations of the media and the lack of communication with the public from anti-fascists. Of course anti-fascists aren't a homogeneous group and instead are a variety of perspectives and motivations. So even if there were media outlets, they wouldn't be uniform and would probably contradict. Which may cause more obfuscation than clarity. In other words, Antifa as an anonymous specter of negation. When its adherents put something positive forward, something to stand for instead of against, they are no longer antifa and become themselves and/or their ideology.

Its strange someone would say anti-fascists are the fascists, which has already been responded to ITT: that the use of violence isn't what determines who is a fascist or not. The police use violence constantly to enforce laws, be it a social democracy, republic, or oligarchy, etc. Rather ideology is determined by beliefs, goals, and means. For example there is no charismatic leader determining the actions of antifa, rather a decentralized network of individuals and groups. On the other hand fascists have a firm hierarchy, with the person at the top calling the shots. The fascist groups I listed earlier who were at the Trump rallies (and helped organize the one in Berkeley), are organized hierarchically, want a whites-only territory, have socially conservative ideals, advocate violence and exclusion based off of race and beliefs, and want a government that is extremely authoritarian, without public input, and with brutal enforcement of the government''s laws.

Right now there isn't one person or a coterie of elites dictating from above what the patchwork of fascist organizations do, but I expect after some dissolution within the ranks, we may see a formal fascist party emerge that consolidates the small groups and individuals into a confederation akin to Right Sector, which was composed of multiple far-right nationalist organizations. Since the Ukrainian revolution simmered down, Right Sector has fractured. The defunct leader left and a fifth of the membership left with him, saying the revolutionary stance wasn't appropriate anymore.

Maybe the fascists wont be able to consolidate their differences into one organization. Maybe they wont try or even get to that point, and dissolve during infighting and internal power struggles. At the close of the 80s the racist skinheads and neo-nazis were dead (they often killed each other), imprisoned, burnt-out, and marginalized. May the same happen to the current fascist amalgamation.
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Matilda Brendershit - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 00:02:03 EST ID:V/t0hcAb No.391113 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Here's a documentary about the Czech antifascist movement from late 80s to 2011. https://youtu.be/TLZ-vw-8tRc
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Ernest Bonkinlidging - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:28:55 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.391125 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Looks like the Trump Administration has decided to pursue charges against Assange.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/politics/julian-assange-wikileaks-us-charges/

>During President Barack Obama's administration, Attorney General Eric Holder and officials at the Justice Department determined it would be difficult to bring charges against Assange because WikiLeaks wasn't alone in publishing documents stolen by Manning. Several newspapers, including The New York Times, did as well.

>The US view of WikiLeaks and Assange began to change after investigators found what they believe was proof that WikiLeaks played an active role in helping Edward Snowden, a former NSA analyst, disclose a massive cache of classified documents.

> [CIA Director Mike Pompeo] said WikiLeaks "directed Chelsea Manning to intercept specific secret information, and it overwhelmingly focuses on the United States."

So basically they're saying while working for Russia, Wikileaks directed Manning to get specific secret information and not just random information.
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Augustus Sarrystone - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:07:33 EST ID:EsRLP7m3 No.391129 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391066
>when you fling around an empty word like racism at me
SP, all during this election cycle you were talking a lot of shit about white supremacy and evil Jews. You made a big deal about how, among other things, Trump was going to finally bring the hammer down on these shifty Jews and their multicultural agenda. Even after Trump's AIPAC speech when everyone was trying to convince you that he was in Israel's pocket, you were still convinced that it was all a ploy expose and bring down the Jews and the Israel lobby. Shit, you couldn't even stop yourself from posting a Holocaust denial infographic, on the same board, within minutes of posting this response.

The thing about being a namefag is that it makes it harder to bullshit away your past statements and motivations. Say whatever you want about how you are now, but you were very vocal and very explicit about all the ways that Trump appealed to your various racial grievances.

And yes, all that racial obsessing of yours makes you an easy mark for shysters. Own up to it and change, or get used to these feelings of betrayed impotence because you'll be feeling a lot more of them in the years to come. The power is within you to stop being such a rube.
>>
Ernest Donderchadging - Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:25:08 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.391132 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>WikiLeaks are Russian shills!
>WikiLeaks are Russian shills!
>CIA: "We're going after WikiLeaks, Daddy Trump offered his blessings."
>WikiLeaks are Russ— Save WikiLeaks!!!

Liberals...
>>
Soviet Psychonaut - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 02:06:34 EST ID:2TfYxlWB No.391135 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391129

You keep missing the entire point.

>when you fling an empty word like racism around

I'm not bullshitting about what I said. I said i don't care what others do as long as they keep to themselves. That's not back tracking. That just reaffirms that Zionists ought to be put up against a wall and shot for meddling in world affairs and disrupting local sovereignty. I mean, for fucks sakes, by your own admission you're identifying the disgustingly disproportionate influence israel has over western and US politics. But I only bring this up because you decide to keep this complete nonsequitor of a conversation going to jerk yourself and whoever the fuck else agrees with your impotent attempts at shaming.

You're more fixated about some namefag's racist tendencies than actually bringing something to the thread. Ironic coming from me I bet. This kinda relates to the OP doesn't it? Ah, who am I kidding. Putin literally pays me to shitpost. Here, a picture straight from the Kremlin with subliminal messages to alt-righters to activate the race war genocide.

nb, because Sarrystone is a faggot
>>
Hannah Hacklehall - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 03:27:51 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.391137 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391135
Hey man don't namefag if you don't want people to single you out so much nb
>>
Emma Sobbleherk - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 06:52:39 EST ID:9k6SLa8o No.391142 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391135
I love it when racists bitch about being called racist. Really highlights how retarded you fuckers are.

nb
>>
Jack Bebberstune - Sat, 22 Apr 2017 15:42:41 EST ID:/aAxVrLx No.391161 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391142
>i'm not racist, i'm a(n)
>racialist!
>realist!
>freedom fighter!
>ethnonationalist!
>white nationalist!
>racial separatist!
>totally not the same!
>>
Charlotte Hocklewell - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:41:23 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.391183 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Can you faggots stop detailing my thread with your racism bullshit, this is a thread for liberals and their Putin hysteria... Pic related, you support Bernie? You're a #PutinPawn
>>
Charlotte Hocklewell - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:58:27 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.391184 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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McCarthyism? In 2017, we call it Menschism.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/menschs-list?utm_term=.ovQ4eoy7n#.lp5mnWkQg
>>
Hedda Diffingsure - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 19:23:44 EST ID:Nla6yjir No.391190 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391103
> >pro-illegal-immigration talk
>[citation needed]

Saying that Trump's policies (which address illegal immigration in a purely objective way) are racist means that she is pro illegal-immigration.

These two videos explain nature of Clinton's fervent arguments against Trump's attempts to address illegal immigration, such as the idea of building a wall, or identifying and deporting illegal immigrants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4384XQR44yM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezaw-g6TIQI

>>391183
Please don't get discouraged, this is a great thread.
>>
Hedda Diffingsure - Sun, 23 Apr 2017 19:25:18 EST ID:Nla6yjir No.391191 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391190
that was supposed to be >>391109
>>
Frederick Charryfog - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:19:57 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.391218 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391132

Are you retarded?

Trump: "Wikileaks! I love Wikileaks! Don't we all love Wikileaks!?

Trump Administration: "Arrest Assange! Wikileaks is an agent of a foreign power!"

What in the hell does "Liberals" have anything to do with this you ridiculous person?

Conservatives own every branch of government. You can't blame Liberals any more faggot.
>>
Martin Blimblebick - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:38:05 EST ID:T43ZgZvA No.391221 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391218
Considering he is wanted for questioning here in Sweden (and we were first) how is this likely to play out? If he is actually convicted of what he's suspected of he will at most get a short sentence in a minimum-security prison. He cannot however be extradited to the USA under current circumstances and Swedish law.

Will Trump bomb us if we refuse to hand him over?
>>
Charles Bemmlened - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:52:00 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.391222 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391221
>Will Trump bomb us if we refuse to hand him over?
No, but he may nuke Denmark.
>>
Martin Blimblebick - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:12:11 EST ID:T43ZgZvA No.391225 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391222
I would have expected Switzerland.

Reminds me of when Denmark joined the Iraq war, al Qaida threatened Norway and a Swedish consulate was torched. Payback Danefags :)
>>
Polly Dollerhon - Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:02:36 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.391235 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391221
>Will Trump bomb us if we refuse to hand him over?
It depends on how cheeky you Swedes are about it when you refuse. Try not to bruise his ego, for the sake of the world.
>>
Eliza Blytheham - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:43:42 EST ID:FqtcG9EC No.391313 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391222
That's webm is blatantly false. Euthanasia in the Netherlands is almost strictly voluntary and you need to apply for it and be accepted.
>>
Reuben Haggleden - Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:50:16 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.391324 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391313

Are you saying that Rick Santorum doesn't know what he's talking about??
>>
George Brooklock - Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:13:13 EST ID:q/8mfYxo No.391370 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>390898
wut
>>
Matilda Drisslewell - Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:25:38 EST ID:FqtcG9EC No.391373 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391324
Is this guy an actual politician?
>>
Cornelius Hummlegold - Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:29:15 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.391374 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391373

Hahaha. Yes, yes he is.
>>
Barnaby Singerway - Wed, 26 Apr 2017 22:43:10 EST ID:6POwg5Ik No.391386 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391373
He was, now he's a pundit.
>>
Nathaniel Grandman - Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:49:18 EST ID:0B9qh6RW No.391390 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391373
He was the second most popular republican primary candidate in 2012.
He was a mix of hyper-christian and neocon, favoring a banning abortion, contraception, porn, sodomy, compared gay marriage to incest and bestiality, a 1-state solution in Israel, and cutting welfare programs and college funding to give blacks opportunity instead of other people's money.

Webm related is one of the billionaires who funded him.
You can read about him here: www.santorum.com


When you consider that the discussion of this country is controlled by a competition between those guys, corporations, and what appeals to people's short attention spans, it becomes apparent why the political environment in this country is so sick.
>>
Eliza Deshmudging - Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:50:13 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.391391 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Oh look, same Russian state cyber group is trying to influence the French election now too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/04/25/cyberattack-on-french-presidential-front-runner-bears-russian-fingerprints-research-group-says/?utm_term=.d4daa58fc7e8

You dipshits still in denial need to understand that Russia isn't really trying to hide that they're the culprits. They're leaving fingerprints ON PURPOSE.

Sure there are pile of useful idiots, many here, who still believe Putin and Assange over the US intelligence services because of the WMDs in Iraq. And of course there are Trumpkin concern trolls thinking this is hurting the democrats when 70% of Americans want answers on Russia's actions including their vast and growing connections to the Trump Campaign.

Of course you haven't explained the British and French also witnessing Russian cyber attacks. I suppose that's a continuing conspiracy by the CIA? Hillary's "deep state" still spreading lies. Russia is weak of course it's going to use hacking. It amazing how the most gullible here think they're the smartest.

You'd never believe the truth even if Putin admitted it - because you can't. Question the US intelligence services but never, never, never question Assange or Glenn Greenwald.
>>
Matilda Pettingfere - Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:33:03 EST ID:iD8kFnx6 No.391394 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391391
So someone used a fake email server, European proxies and unspecified malware with unspecified "similarities" to malware used in other attacks that themselves haven't been proven to originate from Putin, and France's official cybersecurity agency not only specifically notes that any "high-level" hacker could pull this off but leaves open the possibility that someone might be doing it to falsely implicate Russia.

Those are some weaksauce "fingerprints" for such a belligerent and maturbatory post, buddy.
>>
Edward Brummerpack - Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:38:44 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.391400 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391394

But the article framed things in a really suggestive way. Doesn't that count for something???
>>
Nell Hashdale - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:33:47 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.391427 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391394

No. Stop creating a fake narrative and go watch the Congressional and Senate hearings. The senate hearing are better as they're actually trying to get answers from cyberwarfare experts and private security companies.

You just make up a fake thing and then say 'weak sauce" because in your world it's a 400lb Romanian white-hat hacker who just wanted honesty in American government. Somehow you manage to ignore the actual reporting and investigation.

Literally only retards think it wasn't Russia state hacking at this point.

Here's the senate hearing:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?426227-1/senate-intelligence-panel-warned-russians-play-sides

Here's youtube version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBf7rEF-Iqo

I fucking dare you to watch and face the truth.


Here just listen to Clinton Watts opening statement for a taste - https://youtu.be/DBf7rEF-Iqo?t=52m54s
>>
Archie Hommlewadge - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:18:30 EST ID:3p3fIyVa No.391435 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391427
>You just make up a fake thing
All I did was summarize the article you posted. If you are alleging that I misrepresented what was in the article then be specific as to what was misrepresented. If you're implying that the article I summarized that you posted is "a fake thing" then touché I guess?

As to your video, while I'm sure it's very fascinating it doesn't appear to have anything to do with your article about France, so I'm not sure why you brought it up in your defense of the article about France.
>>
Walter Noshstadge - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:03:12 EST ID:wCbmVqz0 No.391437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391394
>>There are finger prints pointing to Russia!
>>Which PROVES that Russia couldn't have done it, it must be someone trying to frame Russia!
Hacking is a technique. Any hacker at the same level of skill could pull of the same operation as another hacker at that skill level if they had the same tools and opportunity. But we know certain tools and backdoors are favored by specific groups. If you won't accept evidence that they are as much like the group we are describing them as as we could possibly ever determine, then I guess you won't accept any evidence that suggests a reality you don't like?

TL;DR: You can always argue that evidence that points to something is merely a set-up to make it SEEM like it points to that something. 'Fake news.' See how well that line of argument holds up in court.
>>
Clara Nuvingdeck - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:40:58 EST ID:6vgegF74 No.391438 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391437
>Which PROVES that Russia couldn't have done
That's not what he said.
You are a demonstrable liar.
Also apparently you're a Democrat partisan.
Make of that what you will.
>>
Edwin Churringberk - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:33:48 EST ID:hPuECcD3 No.391439 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391438
>nuh UH!
>LIAR!
>you're with the opposition so that negates your points as well, only people who are on my side can have valid points
>i'm not actually going to present an argument or counter points or anything
lol of course not. why would you?
>>
Caroline Chenderbury - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:41:02 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.391440 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391439
Yeah, but that's not what he said, though. The guy above him materially and kinda lazily fabricated a false representation of his opponent's position. We can read that.

I don't think any amount of Putin gifs can undo the fact that we can read, but feel free to keep trying.
>>
Edwin Churringberk - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:49:02 EST ID:hPuECcD3 No.391442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>391440
except he didn't even out together an argument. just NAAAH BRUV NAAAAH.

apparently you canct read that.
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Walter Noshstadge - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:56:43 EST ID:wCbmVqz0 No.391443 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391440
I wasn't claiming that >>391394 was making the argument in yellowtext. I was demonstrating that you can question anything on the grounds of 'it seems to be this/but it could just be MADE to seem like this' and thus could lead to exactly the kind of argument in the yellowtext.

The person I was quoting wasn't really making a statement about whether Russia did it or not or why, merely making a kind of technical statement about evidence and hacking, and that was what I was making a response to. You guys getting your nipples in a twist about it says more about you than anything.
>>
Caroline Chenderbury - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 19:02:55 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.391444 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391391
>Sure there are pile of useful idiots, many here, who still believe Putin
I'd just like to point out that nobody in this thread has said that we should "believe" Putin in any real sense. I don't think anybody on this board, with the possible exception of SP or X8, has ever suggested believing or trusting Putin on any level. I don't trust Putin. I also don't trust America's dedicated pack of warmongers either, and nobody here has offered any logical reasoning for why the two positions should be mutually exclusive, though you seem to be trying hard to imply that exclusivity. You seem to be deliberately trying to conflate two distinct concepts, the idea that skepticism of the American war machine automatically equals unquestioning loyalty to the Russian war machine. Nobody here has the time to reteach you from the ground up the basic concepts of mathematical, rhetorical and logical thinking, but try to believe me when I say that "not believing X" != "believing Y".
>>
Caroline Chenderbury - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 19:09:29 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.391445 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391443
>The person I was quoting wasn't really making a statement about whether Russia did it or not or why, merely making a kind of technical statement about evidence and hacking, and that was what I was making a response to.
By lying about what he said?
>>
Walter Noshstadge - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 19:30:03 EST ID:wCbmVqz0 No.391446 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391445
When did I ever talk about what he said? I was talking about what's possible for hackers to do and to what extent you can 'fingerprint' a hacking operation. I was also making a statement about rhetoric, that you can always claim some evidence is merely a set up to appear as evidence, but that that argument carries little weight. You combine the two and you get a situation where someone could claim that the evidence of something is evidence of the opposite of something, which was the idea I yellowtexted, like how you yellowtext a story. Are you under the impression that yellowtext only ever means you're quoting someone?
>>
Eliza Gemblebanks - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 21:24:49 EST ID:i1eo8CqX No.391450 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391446
>I was talking about what's possible for hackers to do and to what extent you can 'fingerprint' a hacking operation. I was also making a statement about rhetoric, that you can always claim some evidence is merely a set up to appear as evidence, but that that argument carries little weight.
So, your criticism was of the rhetoric of L'Agence Nationale de la Sécurité des Systèmes d'Information?

Because that's who provided that argument. It's in the article.
>>
Fucking Turveybury - Fri, 28 Apr 2017 21:34:26 EST ID:wCbmVqz0 No.391451 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391450
Yes that's actually specifically who I was talking about, for I too am capable of reading what is directly in the posts I respond to, I just phrased my statement in a general way. It's a sophistic argument that carries little weight regardless of who makes it, and so my criticism is really of anyone who would place a lot of importance on the claim that it's hacking intentionally designed to point at Russia by some other actor, unless they have some other significant corroborating evidence, simply because of technical facts about how modern day cyber-forensics works. It's actually fairly primitive and easily manipulated if you have enough skill.

Which, for the sake of becoming more on topic, leads to a further complication; matters of cyber-espionage are hopelessly technical and obscure, and yet the final judges of what is or isn't cyber-espionage in the context of 'the Russia connection' debacle will be people who are totally unqualified to do so from a technical knowledge point of view. That has to be something that would give people on both sides pause.
>>
Barnaby Buttingwater - Sun, 30 Apr 2017 04:48:12 EST ID:9k6SLa8o No.391467 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391451
>and yet the final judges of what is or isn't cyber-espionage in the context of 'the Russia connection' debacle will be people who are totally unqualified to do so from a technical knowledge point of view. That has to be something that would give people on both sides pause.

This is the case for most policy decisions if you think about it.
>>
James Blarryhock - Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:15:04 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.391481 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391391

If your only source of Russian interference are "fingerprints", you must've missed the most recent WikiLeaks revelation that showed the CIA is in the business of cataloguing fingerprints and using them as cover-ups.

The fact that you say the "Russians are leaving finger prints ON OURPOSE" shows how gullible you are. If the finger prints are that obvious, rest assured it was the CIA trying to shape the narrative.
>>
Augustus Trotshit - Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:18:52 EST ID:sUBj56yv No.391482 Ignore Report Quick Reply
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-mcmaster-china-north-korea-1.4092632


I guess Trump can't deny interference happened now, better start deflecting!
>>
Reuben Nammerfoot - Mon, 01 May 2017 00:44:38 EST ID:MyuDzBUL No.391494 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391482

Accusing people of hacking has become the new war drum, and it's ironic, because which country hacks more than anyone? USA! USA! USA!

The USA government is spying on you, and they just made it legal for your ISP to sell your internet activity — why spy, when you can buy?! In spite of this grievous assault on my privacy by own government, I'm supposed to be mad at the Russians and the Koreans — why should I be mad at the Russians and Koreans? Assuming they did hack my government, all they did was expose the terrible shit my government has done, to me and to others. As far as I'm concerned, they did me a favor.
>>
Fanny Cassleketch - Mon, 01 May 2017 07:54:23 EST ID:HZmApooN No.391499 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391494
Because clearly the reason behind Russia or North Korea hacking was out of their love for humanity and exposing corruption.
>>
John Crenkinham - Mon, 01 May 2017 15:06:23 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391516 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391499
>Russia or North Korea hacking
Man, all that news is just a smoke screen for the Dems to stare at. It's so far removed from the reality of what's actually going on.

First of all, every country hacks every other country, pretty much.
Second of all, Clinton was asking to get hacked (unsafe email networks) and one of the top people in the DNC literally gave away his private info to hackers (email scam).
Third of all, a ton of DNC corruption expositions were done by WikiLeaks, which is owned by a 'morally righteous' Australian man with no connection to Russia aside from once being interviewed for the Russian Times.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarunwadhwa/2015/07/21/as-nations-hack-each-other-protecting-personal-information-becomes-national-security-issue/#7e852ea8619d
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak
http://www.salon.com/2016/10/21/hillary-clinton-campaign-chariman-john-podestas-email-was-hacked-because-he-clicked-on-a-phishing-link/
>>
Polly Savingfoot - Mon, 01 May 2017 17:27:23 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.391542 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391516

Ah, so now the hacks are real but the news is fake.

To late Trumpkin, they tried to play his stupid MONTHS ago.

Soon Trump people will be going to jail, either for collusion with Russia, obstruction of justice, of lying to the FBI.

Remember, when you were chanting "Lock her up" the only Presidential Candidate under investigation by the FBI at the time was Donald Trump. You must feel fucking dumb as shit.
>>
Alice Clubberson - Tue, 02 May 2017 11:36:24 EST ID:QK8mfsjv No.391553 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>bunch of embarrassing stuff exposing the hilariously corrupt reality of the DNC, American foreign policy, etc. leaked by wikileaks
>RUSSIAN HACKING!!! HOLY SHIT!!!
>frame it as some sort of government hijacking of the US and directly influencing the election
>it's actually just information we all should have known to begin with that our morally bankrupt """leaders"""" have been hiding to cover their own ass
>equate making someone look bad with the truth with trying to influence the election, frame everything in such a way as to make it look as scary as possible, rachel maddow spending half her airtime covering this nonsense even after military people and etc say there's pretty much nothing there
>fucking idiots on 420chan /pol/ lap it up

You dumbfucks are falling for it again. They lied to you about Vietnam, they lied to you about Iraq, they lied to you about 100 other things, they lie to you every fucking day. And you still don't get it. You still beat the war drums like a good slave. Some of you are just hopeless. Pathetically stupid, really. Use your fucking brains, for once, for the sake of the rest of the goddamn planet.
>>
Eugene Trotson - Tue, 02 May 2017 14:27:40 EST ID:PVyTi+C9 No.391554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391553
Some days I feel like my country is too far gone and this is the end of days. I have no idea what turning this thing around would look like.
>>
Phyllis Goodman - Tue, 02 May 2017 15:28:41 EST ID:fIytzpBL No.391555 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391516
>First of all, every country hacks every other country, pretty much.
X8's analyses usually hold up best at this level of granularity. These broad strokes don't tell us anything useful or non-intuitive, but they don't open up on sweeping vistas of untamed speculation and hubristic self-aggrandizement, either.

>Clinton was asking to get hacked
WikiLeaks themselves acknowledged that the RNC's systems weren't any more secure than the DNC's. https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/757894958498000896

>a 'morally righteous' Australian man with no connection to Russia aside from once being interviewed for the Russian Times.
There is no Russian publication called Russian Times, so I assume you're referring to RT. They didn't just interview him, they gave him his own talk show. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tomorrow

How about the Kremlin official who suggested nominating Assange for the Nobel Peace Prize?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/09/julian-assange-nobel-peace-prize

How about Sergei Markov brushing off the interference allegations but adding "maybe we helped a bit with WikiLeaks"?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/putin-applauds-trump-win-and-hails-new-era-of-positive-ties-with-us?CMP=share_btn_tw

What do you make of Assange requesting a Russian security detail at the Ecuadorian embassy?
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wikileaks-forum.com%2F-wikileaks-related-news%2F23%2Fassange-espiado-por-la-inteligencia-de-ecuador%2F34255%2F&edit-text=&act=url


How else can you account for WikiLeaks publishing nothing on the Russian government since 2010? Say what you will about the US under any President, but as yet we don’t have dissident journalists turning up murdered, or foreign journalists deported and barred from entry, as Russia does. Isn’t that the kind of thing Assange purports to crusade against? And when the Panama Papers were released, implicating Putin, Assange went into full tinfoil retard mode, crowing about USAID and SOROS. Note that WikiLeaks won’t make its own funding sources public. https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/717458064324964352

Assange cherishes a long-standing open enmity against Clinton, and the timing of the leaks shows that he wasn't playing some impartial role as whistleblower, he was actively seeking to influence the outcome of the election. ("Here's what you wish you'd known during the primaries about the DNC’s collusion with the Clinton campaign! Too bad the primaries are over now, huh?") Same for the "bombshell" he promised in October: it turned out to be a big nothingburger content-wise, but still did the trick whipping up all the sound and fury that had died down since the dozenth empty-handed Benghazi hearing. The email leaks provided very little of any surprise to people familiar with how party politics actually work in the US—virtually all high-profile campaigns cultivate cozy relationships with the press, if you were a bit older you’d remember John McCain’s “thank you” cookout for journalists in 2008—but when the overworked masses hear incessantly about “the leaks” for months on end, they inevitably draw the subconscious conclusion that there have been some unique damning revelations or other. Trump, of course, had no public service record for anyone to scrutinize, so he had to put his big dumb fucking mouth into overdrive generating press buzz during the primaries. But he’s certainly making up for lost time. Right now the Reagan administration’s got the all-time record for indictments and convictions on corruption, but then Reagan’s AG didn’t have to recuse himself from investigations of the campaign at the outset, did he? (He did eat shit in 1988, but Reagan was already preparing to retire into his pampered senility at that point.)

It requires a special kind of obtuseness—like the kind that would lead X8 to call Trump “practically a god damned libertarian”—to take Assange at his own word as some kind of principled icon for freedom. He has no interest in undermining the power of states, on the international stage or in their respective internal affairs. He just wants a piece of the action for himself.
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William Chunkinlere - Wed, 03 May 2017 09:28:34 EST ID:xxKoAEbr No.391574 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391499
It doesn't matter why they exposed terrible shit (if indeed it was them). What matters is the shit that was exposed.

This is an interesting rhetorical strategy, though, for the Democrats. This idea that stated intentions matter more than actions. I wonder if this has any parallels to the party as a whole.
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Nathaniel Smallbanks - Wed, 03 May 2017 11:54:38 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391584 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391555
>These broad strokes don't tell us anything useful or non-intuitive, but they don't open up on sweeping vistas of untamed speculation and hubristic self-aggrandizement, either.
What a beautiful way with words you have.

I must say, what you've posted in no way makes me believe that Clinton and the DNC are innocent. As far as I'm concerned, and as far as facts have proven, Clinton made a huge mistake, the DNC made a huge mistake, Clinton broke several federal laws covering her own ass after breaking several federal laws to begin with (unacceptable cyber security). By all means, she deserves to be thrown out of government work permanently, and shitting on the RNC and Assange doesn't change that.

But that being said, I applaud you, Phyllis. You, and only you, have come at me on this board with an outstanding hypothesis, one no one here has ever championed, nor anyone I've ever seen has championed, and you backed it up with many real facts, something almost no one here does for anything they talk about.

My hands clap for you, Phyllis. Truth be told, you make an outstanding case that gives enough credentials to the idea that Assange was working with Russia against Clinton, something which seemed implausible since no one had ever produced any of the evidence you have just now produced just for me. Thank you, Phyllis. You truly shine on this board. I would happily listen to anything more you had to say.
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Oliver Devinghetch - Wed, 03 May 2017 13:56:02 EST ID:I3FnSNZB No.391587 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391584

You could have just said "Thanks for the ass raping Phyillis."
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Lillian Grimstone - Wed, 03 May 2017 17:34:32 EST ID:9k6SLa8o No.391593 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391584
I like this new tactic where the harder someone bitchslaps you the harder you suck them off afterwards. It's still not making anyone respect you though.
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Samuel Chenderstock - Mon, 08 May 2017 08:25:58 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.391765 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391587
>>391593
I enjoy how visibly upset you become when you see my speak. I enjoy looking down on people like you, because you can't appreciate others having a deep discussion and coming to an agreement. I'm here to speak with other intelligent people like Phyllis, yet here you are drawing my attention just so I can look down on you for 2 minutes and then continue about my day.
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Charles Pumbletare - Mon, 08 May 2017 08:41:54 EST ID:9k6SLa8o No.391768 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391765
>visibly upset

lol

I enjoy how you think anyone here sees you as anything but a joke. If your posts upset me, I'd put you on ignore, jackass.

nb
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Phyllis Lightbanks - Mon, 08 May 2017 15:12:57 EST ID:wCbmVqz0 No.391786 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391765
>>I'm so blatantly and egregiously egotistical that I think I can say 'look down on people like you' like twelve times in a two line post and not think I am an insane egomaniacal piece of shit
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Doris Soffingtut - Thu, 11 May 2017 23:08:17 EST ID:TR4Xg3rk No.391943 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391786
just fyi you're responding to X8.
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Betsy Burrywud - Mon, 15 May 2017 09:47:37 EST ID:X8esPtoC No.392107 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>391943
I mean I love it, so they can keep it coming. I'm quite used to people telling me I'm an egomaniac, yet I'm one of the most humble people I've ever met. Humility and strong self-confidence really aren't contradictory. But, people neither appreciate humility, nor confidence, and shit on people who enjoy either/both, so fuck people and their small-minded opinions. I mean, I can just tell who's opinion is based in facts and reason and who's is based on the feelings of their fragile ego, and of course all my vehement opponents got the ego because anybody who enjoys facts and rationality can enjoy conversing with me. I mean, look at what happened here; I shared an opinion, somebody shared a mountain of evidence with me trying to alter my opinion, I happily accepted it and thanked them, a true show of humility, and then a bunch of people jumped in and started personally insulting me. Fragile egos, man.


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