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Well I like the EU's chances at not fracturing! by Barnaby Mobbleford - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 22:44:47 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398475 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1510026287028.jpg -(61731B / 60.28KB, 714x476) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 61731
>already running war games
I imagine they have a lot of faith in what they preach
I guess even Germany at this point is done pretending that you can have a unified Monetary policy without a unified Fiscal policy.

Even I am a little surprised that they stopped lying, this was doomed endeavor anyways

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-german-army-contemplates-eu-fissures-in-scenario-study-spiegel-2017-11
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/german-forces-wargame-break-up-of-the-european-union-tzglz5bsl
https://www.politico.eu/article/german-military-study-eu-collapse-is-conceivable/

And this has been developed since February and kept hidden (ironic considering it is a file on your current political collapse)
>>
Molly Sennernack - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:06:55 EST ID:f72r0ejF No.398476 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398475
>EU collapse conceivable worst case
>A further two [scenarios] envisaged a more peaceful world.
You know that basically any country tries to prepare for any scenario that is 'conceivable'. There are probably plans in some US vault for if they need to send troops to Israel and bomb mekka or invade Mexico, Canada, Spain, Australia and any other country on earth, doesnt mean that it's going to happen or any more likely because the plans exist.
herpa derpa, cunt.
>>
Barnaby Crendleshit - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:11:46 EST ID:5IdieRNJ No.398477 Ignore Report Quick Reply
By your logic the US is collapsing too? They run war games all the fucking time.
>>
Barnaby Mobbleford - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:11:53 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398478 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398476
Did you read the articles?
>>
Barnaby Mobbleford - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:12:51 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398479 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398477
As shows of force..... and they aren't in a political union with other countries.....

Could you imagine if various states ran war games against one another in preparation for a civil war?
>>
Barnaby Mobbleford - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:16:57 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398480 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398477
I mean seriously are you kidding? They run war games as a show of sabre rattling against Russia, NK, and others primarily.

And to compare a political union of countries that share a monetary policy (you get what this means right? They print what people use a unified currency, this is different than two independent separate countries with an independent monetary policy like Canada. Canada does not use the dollar) and a single country is apples to oranges.

How dense are you people, when do you last remember Ontario running war games against Quebec? or Texas for the collapse of the US.
>>
Barnaby Crendleshit - Mon, 06 Nov 2017 23:27:32 EST ID:5IdieRNJ No.398481 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398480
>How dense are you people, when do you last remember Ontario running war games against Quebec?

Yeah, 96, when it seem ed Quebec might still split from Canada.
>>
Barnaby Mobbleford - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:01:48 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398482 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398481
so precipitating a potential civil war 21 years ago with a referendum that pretty much 50.5% to 49.5%

Yeah very relevant to Germany preparing war games against members of its collective union.
Those two events have a lot in common, considering the whole domestic terrorism tainting the movement with the FLQ in the 70's
>>
David Gamblelock - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 00:27:48 EST ID:8Hwf3Maj No.398483 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398478
no, I printed them out and ate them to absorb their information through my colon you conspira-crazy fuckwad. STAY AFWAID!! THE SKY IS FALLING!! 2040 GERMANY WILL MARCH AGAIN!!
>>
Barnaby Mobbleford - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 03:23:02 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398485 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398483
> I'm not even a conspiracy theorist
> I don't have a nazi fetish

Meanwhile many mainstream news sources though this was worth discussing from bloomberg to guardian.

>if id mentioned trump/antifa/altright/commiebs this would be a 10/10 thread.
>>
David Hollerlick - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 04:01:10 EST ID:uVgxaWbI No.398486 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398485
Do you know how media works? Do you realise that publishing alarmist headlines means more clicks and more ad revenue?
What real content do these leaked documents reveal? that the future is unclear and Germany is trying to create some sort of strategy going forward? Yes they can prepare for the break-up of the EU, they can also work to stop the break-up, they could also prepare for business as usual and decreased geopolitical tensions. Get off the paranoid bandwagon.
>>
Matilda Sendlechudging - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 11:04:55 EST ID:CqLzf74x No.398490 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>running war games implies imminent collapse
how are you guys this retarded. nb.
>>
Caroline Wapperkure - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 11:37:01 EST ID:RECqzvsy No.398492 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398490
It is mentally soothing to some to be able to blame everything on a faceless tyrannical entity. If one doesn't exist then one must be invented.
nb
>>
Henry Brusslewot - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:09:19 EST ID:OoyVAyG3 No.398496 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I don't know what's so far fetched about any of this. The peace and harmony of social democracy is an illusion, and if that illusion fades, the violence of powerful States that serve economic institutions becomes apparent. If anyone thought Europe was ever living in peace, they are the ones that were deluded. Shit the European Union got the Nobel Peace prize during a year of mass riots and fierce government repression against austerity. Peace is an illusion. The social war is incessant within despotic economic systems.
>>
Henry Brusslewot - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:11:46 EST ID:OoyVAyG3 No.398497 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398492

It's even more mentally soothing for many to pretend that social democracy equates to freedom and peace. Reality check: class war is and always has been in full swing.
>>
Henry Brusslewot - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:13:09 EST ID:OoyVAyG3 No.398498 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398496

*anti austerity
>>
Barnaby Mobbleford - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 16:18:13 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398499 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398490
>never stated imminent collapse
>stated War Games are a symptom of declining faith within their monetary union
>creating a straw man is easier than discussing political events
nb pants on head reading comprehension
>>
Cornelius Dengerwick - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 22:05:04 EST ID:Vwoc9qnJ No.398510 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398498
>never stated imminent collapse
>did state EU fracturing, doomed endeavour
oh yeah totes not even close, my bad.
>>
Nathaniel Nerringstock - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 23:03:56 EST ID:vIPPdauo No.398511 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398510
>never said imminent
> article says 23 years but likelihood is classified
in my opinion it's doomed anyways for the reasons stated, ie events like brexit, issues with PIGS, disparity, immigration, lack of political unification. I didn't say it's going to implode tommorow I said it was a doomed endeavor.

>back to reading comprehension
>>
Nathaniel Bullerbuck - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 23:07:52 EST ID:QYjwPW9I No.398512 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398511
you also ignored that the document sets out six different scenarios and does not suggest any is more likely than the other. Alarmist headlines galore.
>>
Augustus Gannerfoot - Tue, 07 Nov 2017 23:33:47 EST ID:sZ0Jbbdr No.398513 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What's next? The current American way of life won't exist by 2040? Get real. Every political system we have currently in the West is sustainable to point of lasting lifetimes.
>>
Shit Ponnerham - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 08:12:19 EST ID:IZXBn8Ax No.398525 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398511
as far as the collapse of a major sociopolitical entity is concerned, 23 years would definitely be considered "imminent"...

seems you're only nitpicking because you're being rightfully called out on being a retard.
>>
James Dondlewill - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 11:31:35 EST ID:RECqzvsy No.398528 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398497
The EU level doesn't actually control national police forces you know. It's original purpose was to make Europe economically interdependent to stop our frequent hissy-fits from burning down the whole world. Also social democracies tend to top the lists of both freedom and peace. No one has claimed utopia has been achieved.
>>
Phyllis Goodman - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 16:12:24 EST ID:0jst5Y6R No.398530 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398528
>Also social democracies tend to top the lists of both freedom and peace.

Ah, but what if Denmark's prosperity is predicated on sweatshops in Southeast Asia and resource wars in Africa and the Middle East? Your "Freedom Indices," as published by pro-trade think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Fraser Institute, presuppose the disparity of conditions as resulting from discrete national policies. Global trade must be understood rather as a supranational phenomenon. Even after all the colonial holdings have been formally relinquished, imperialism is still the highest stage of capitalism.
>>
James Dondlewill - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:26:27 EST ID:RECqzvsy No.398531 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398530
Well, yeah, the world is a mess. Just look at this board. However there are degrees(Celsius) in hell. Also please don't presume that the rest of the world thinks the heritage foundation an objective observer; your America is showing.
>>
Phyllis Goodman - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:39:04 EST ID:0jst5Y6R No.398532 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398531
I'm saying, it's only orgs like Heritage Foundation that employ "freedom indices" in their analyses. The Americentrism was on >>398528's part.
>>
Phyllis Goodman - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:40:07 EST ID:0jst5Y6R No.398533 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398532
oh wait that's you. Haha nice one
>>
Cyril Clurringhood - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 19:34:05 EST ID:009kO2zb No.398534 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398531

You do know social democracy isn't granting people freedom it's just giving the poor and oppressed the illusion of a kinder a gentler society. Yet when the illusion breaks, or is broken you have people like you calling riots and resistance movements "tantrums". Let me guess, police are heros swarming protests and beating a bunch of brats throwing fits? How dare they question one social group of elite insitutoions ruling over the entirety of the world! Now feel the freedom of ruber bullets and batons plebs! Get back to work! This is social democracy now stop resisting before you get hurt with the forces of liberty!
>>
Cyril Clurringhood - Wed, 08 Nov 2017 20:07:01 EST ID:009kO2zb No.398535 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398534

I'm going to stop the sarcasm and name a few things behind my rhetoric.

Freedom isn't French police declaring curfews and anti protest laws due to general strike. Freedom isn't Italian police kicking in the door of clinics to mass arrested suspected protesters, bloodying students putting at least 5 in comas. Freedom isn't golden dawn holding 18 seats in Greek Parliament as police raid immigrant neighborhoods committing mass assaults and detainments. Freedom isn't Spanish national police bloodying students and blockading polling booths. Freedom isn't the IMF benefactors and bankers sitting in luxury as young people in Europe struggle to survive or thrive even when working long hours.
>>
Lydia Billyham - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 14:41:19 EST ID:RECqzvsy No.398546 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398532
Well, as you imply there are multiple standards for multiple types of freedom. Normally though more serious people qualify what type of freedom they are talking about since it's sometimes a trade-off between different freedoms. The heritage foundation is hardly a global gold-standard for ranking much of anything. We have our own partisan think-tanks thankyouverymuch.
>>398534
>You do know social democracy isn't granting people freedom
Well, no. It is a method of living with ones neighbors fundamentally. All political systems are.
>giving the poor and oppressed the illusion of a kinder a gentler society
by actually giving them a kinder and gentler society? Sure it's just better than most of the competition but that's kinda the point.
>people like you calling riots and resistance movements "tantrums"
The "tantrums" the EU was designed to deal with was 2 bloody world wars. Domestic dickishness is still the province of the member states. If anything the EU often allows a higher court of appeal. As does the (unrelated to the EU) ECHR. Pax Bureaucratia is hardly utopia but it is an improvement on what Europe has been doing these past few thousand years.
>ruber bullets and batons
waay better than the alternative on the other side of the Atlantic as I'm sure the survivors will tell you.
>This is social democracy now stop resisting before you get hurt with the forces of liberty!
At what point have I ever suggested I support such authoritarianism? Any democracy relies on the concept of dissent. If there is only one answer then why bother to vote?
>Freedom isn't French police declaring curfews and anti protest laws due to general strike. Freedom isn't Italian police kicking in the door of clinics to mass arrested suspected protesters, bloodying students putting at least 5 in comas. Freedom isn't golden dawn holding 18 seats in Greek Parliament as police raid immigrant neighborhoods committing mass assaults and detainments. Freedom isn't Spanish national police bloodying students and blockading polling booths. Freedom isn't the IMF benefactors and bankers sitting in luxury as young people in Europe struggle to survive or thrive even when working long hours.
And I don't necessarily defend any of that except the Golden Dawn bit. Fuck 'em but they retain the same democratic rights as the rest of us.

I'm not actually sure what were arguing about, the EU? western nations? society in general? hypocrisy? hierarchy in general?

The blame lands on the doorstep of Macron, Gentiloni or Rajoy not Junker; they outrank him. Golden Dawn is the fault of Greek voters (all elected representatives are to some extent)pun intended. The IMF is basically the lowest common denominator of global fiscal charity. So they'll lend you money if you (or someone else) wrecked your economy but I hope you can get by on one kidney.
>>
Cornelius Crimmlebury - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 15:04:29 EST ID:SHyyI25x No.398549 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398546

What you call a kinder and gentler society is just the uncontested rule of one social class over the other. If revolt of the lower class intensified the violent repression would as well. The entire "this part of the world is worst" argument isnt shit. Thats not how freedom works. Some chattle slaves had better food and more of a say while others were brutalized utmost. If either stepped out of line theyd be beat or killed. This isnt freedom. There is no middle ground in freedom. Even israeli forces who kill and maim use tear gas and rubber. When there were more proletariat rebellions 30s-80s the reactions were more brutal. For instance in the 70s Italian police often opened fire with live ammo against student and worker demos. Thirdly you support "a kinder" society yet golden dawn arose to react against rebellious forces in Greece with more brutality and have used torture and political attacks as a method of empowering the Greek state. So the hypcoricy and faulty arguments you have in favor of social democracy become really apparent with that last bit.

If the so called gentleness of the state is dependant upon the submission to ruling class agendas and logic than that isn't truly gentle. It's submission to power masquearding as peace. The class war is real and it's incessant. Pic related. He stepped out of line. If you never do you'll never truly know how violent democracy really is.
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Cornelius Crimmlebury - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 15:07:15 EST ID:SHyyI25x No.398550 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398549

Here's a basic book you should check out by Chomsky. It's called manufacturing consent. I may not agree with chom on everything but it accurately describes and goes into depth about how democracy's main weapon is..well..manufacturing consent. Of course when that fails the violence behind the very nature of class systems becomes apparent.
>>
Hugh Duckdale - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 19:43:59 EST ID:xQbV1JEs No.398554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398546
>Domestic dickishness is still the province of the member states. If anything the EU often allows a higher court of appeal.

Pretty much. There's a reason why lefties in West/North Europe are so much more successful in pushing policies than lefties in South Europe because they USE the system, they go through the channels.
>>
Martha Grimville - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 21:26:41 EST ID:i+8mSKdH No.398555 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398554
Yeah, might as well utilize all means to push policy. Tho going through the proper channels didn't help Catalonia out much.

>>398549
In other words the velvet glove or the iron fist. The book "Engines of Domination" had an interesting definition of this: soft and hard subjugation.
>"Hard subjugation compels obedience by violence or the threat of violence. Soft subjugation induces obedience by deception, and requires that the victim trust the subjugator."

>"Thought-control of any kind is the technology of soft subjugation. [...] If soft subjugation stops working those in power might resort to increased oppression, as they’ve often done to silence dissent in times of war. Yet this could lead to a backlash that might prove fatal."
>>
Wesley Bronderpotch - Sat, 11 Nov 2017 06:12:43 EST ID:xQbV1JEs No.398580 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398555
Catalonia's independence is being pushed by centralists/classical liberals. It is all about having to pay less money.
>>
Sidney Fuckingdale - Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:57:49 EST ID:i+8mSKdH No.398629 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>398580
Mostly seems so, but I think there's more to it. Their sense of identity as a region rather than with the country. That's besides the point though, the Catalonia referendum was as official as it could be, even though Spain's central government said they wouldn't recognize it, and other EU governments turned that backs on Catalonia.
>>
Phineas Paffingburk - Sat, 18 Nov 2017 16:19:50 EST ID:gakTOcWS No.398668 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398629

The Spanish state has always been one of the most reactionary regimes in Europe. In the early 1900s, and in the late 2000s. Authority is waging an incessant war and its always been maginified in places like Spain. The cops there might not be shooting people Willy nilly (they do this in America because they know they can without risking full on revolt) but they will show up to protests literally intent on cracking skulls. Even peaceful ones. In America they use tear gas and rubber bullets at times or mace but in Spain they swing batons so hard heads and limbs crack.
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Phyllis Weshwater - Sat, 18 Nov 2017 19:07:26 EST ID:l0jUbEaV No.398671 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398668

yeah i saw footage of spanish cops during the referendum storm a ballot site and throw people down a staircase wearing full riot gear including throwing multiple women down the stairs by their hair, taking down elderly people with judo moves and shit.
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Sophie Brallerlone - Sat, 18 Nov 2017 22:07:22 EST ID:IOhsgE4X No.398672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398671

They also injured hundreds of students peacefully protesting in the mid 2000s. If anything it has backfired because after hundreds and thousands of people began to see it as safer to demonstrate with anarchists -https://youtu.be/c18Z0k5RXiI

Desperately realizing this, the Spanish counter terror units began mass raids and arrests against suspected anarchists. Not during protest but at random in homes, at people's jobs and so on.
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Cyril Murdforth - Sun, 19 Nov 2017 11:23:29 EST ID:xQbV1JEs No.398673 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I would have a lot more symphathy for the Catalonians if they weren't all rightwinging liberals only in it for lower taxes.
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the flicker !FwnV7hV52I - Mon, 20 Nov 2017 02:41:31 EST ID:pVAP57VP No.398680 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>398673
Even though Spain is a marginal power at best within the triad of Europe-US-Japan, its balkanization can only objectively weaken the forces of imperialism — much like how the partition of Syria can only strengthen them. Therefore, I support Catalonian independence even though it's clearly a bourgeois nationalist movement.


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