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Lacan and the Otaku Culture by Ryoichi - Sun, 02 Apr 2017 05:39:00 EST ID:1EiSvWRE No.207959 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Greetings /pss/

I've got an upcoming thesis that requires a Lacanian psychoanals on the Otaku culture, to be specific on the emerging of Online Mobile Games (Mobage) trends. How could they become popular, how could the users willing to spend thousands of kachings on it, and how it become a subculture not only in Japan but also in other countries.

I'm still a noob in Lacan, while I'm also learning it myself, can you help me on where to start or a good route to understand it enough to use it as an analysis tool?

Thanks inb4
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Walter Shakewill - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 09:01:40 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.207965 Ignore Report Quick Reply
We sure do get a lot of students on this board.
Beatrice Hammledudge - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:38:58 EST ID:pGdi6pf4 No.208250 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Honestly, if you’re a noob in Lacan you won’t write anything solid in that thesis. Crazy post-modern academia has already “reappropriated” Lacan though and that peculiar combination of subjects makes for a heavy salad too crude for real thought but nuts enough for academic criteria. You might succeed, but even if you do, you wouldn’t get closer to psychoanalysis.

The way to it is to brush off all secondary sources and read basic Freud (The Interpretation of Dreams, Psychopathology of Everyday Life, The Joke and its Relation to the Unconscious, plus I’d say some of the case studies) along with “basic” Lacan, whatever that might be... maybe The Insance of the Letter, maybe the second seminar, or some of the Écrits.

Curiously there are some comments by Lacan on the Japanese language, I believe from the first seminars and maybe some written texts. I don’t remember most of it, but I recall him praising the language’s sensitivity to social hierarchy.
Walter Clezzledudge - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:54:09 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208251 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Lacan proposes that the mirror phase creates an illusion of independence. In freud and even some modern psychology, and even modern views found here and on the news. The it isn't an illusion it is the standard we should judge ourselves by and we are as sufficiently infantile as the imposition of that distorted super ego critique suggests. And our failures to live up to it, our neurosis's are still charted along that development to live up to it. Suggesting the adult world impressed in that distortion of a super imago as existing as it restricts us then.

Lacan suggested that the mirror phase both biologically and linguistically as understood in humans is more like a misunderstanding. You can't see the supporting frames and buttresses that still hold up that independent image from the other side of the mirror, much like you can't see the strings and supports that hold up a puppet or a piece of architecture succesfully couched in space.

this is because of the depths of reflection that give possibilities in self reflection both physical and mental, but the lack of human understanding(crossing over into philosophy) about the "behind-ness" or "underneathness" of human perception or what it takes to authentically be couched in physical space.

lacan is basically propositioning that as humans we are afraid of dependence, so we don't see how dependence and support is neccessary in the self. In the light of the mirror image we think is favored by society.
Walter Clezzledudge - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:15:16 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208252 Ignore Report Quick Reply

It about the inability to see that the statement and the self reflection exist in and out of the same state that occurs in an image in film or theatre. When we approach it without suspension we fall prey to anxietys produced by ads and movies and society itself because we don't embrace self reflexive or going into how that is working.

On the otherside we don't realize reality without it, because it's distinct from "the real" because of the idea that to make something "more real" in our concious beliefs about reality we hide our manipulation and editing of it we don't reach reality by caving into the real either.

Embracing how it's being made and the production of what's happening within that construction is like seeing the net and seeing the weaving. essentially ignoring the man behind the curtain, or the very real existence of our heart, intellect, and courage as symbol/ic we don't have reality.
Walter Clezzledudge - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:30:21 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208253 Ignore Report Quick Reply
For the otaku part you might want to fucus on the collection of symbols, in an order with improvisation and contextual logic related to gathering of symbols. These games suggest skill and a pop up wind out, interlocking finding or achievement of symbols. In a ground, as expressed in the actual puzzle board, that is chaotic or in flux in it's logic and constancy. Impulse is attracted and seems to have a part to play on the road to skill, but suffers a critique in the reason it is present in the games. Or in order to get you to pay more money.

It's game is chaotic or flux in it's logic and justification. Suggesting unfairness and pay barriers and traps for a person. But impulse is also achieving justification and making perspective. More literally how you play it will determine interaction.

Duality of good and evil by Isabella Buzzgold - Sun, 07 May 2017 09:26:04 EST ID:K4ulXiPw No.208120 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Lately i've been looking into the physosophy of good and evil,the angelic and the demonic and so on.I am looking for a book that explores the duality of concepts like these,any suggestions
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Walter Willyledge - Thu, 15 Jun 2017 09:25:52 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208236 Ignore Report Quick Reply
read the comment chain we are responding to now.
Walter Willyledge - Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:15:08 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208237 Ignore Report Quick Reply
in addition, they were both responders to hegel and predisposed with the metaphysics of value. As well as outlining things in world stages, and structuring there philosophy based on the same mechanics of logic in that.

Nietzhce even took the subsuming of tensions in greater and greater stages to self overcoming. While Marx took it a materialist place. Both were obsessed with the master and slave dynamic. And the concept of self recognition.
So on and so on.
Priscilla Mobberson - Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:21:50 EST ID:Ya59RsKY No.208238 Ignore Report Quick Reply
That's my point. The Man with No Name up there >>208162 mentions Marx in a throwaway comment merely comparing the story of Nietzsche's life to his, and now all of a sudden we're talking about the practical effects of Marxist theory. This is the second thread on the front page that has been derailed from its true topic into discussing Marx merely by someone having mentioned his name. Maybe we need a Marx containment thread?
Walter Willyledge - Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:38:49 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208239 Ignore Report Quick Reply
no that will only excerbate it. If your intentions are to get less marx threads popping up don't do it. I agree though people have tried to make pss incredibly political. And there basically using marx's status as a philosopher to achieve that.

My take on beyond good in evil, is that Nietzche basically outlined the parts of the creative process and the living independently process that affect or stop us from achieving the experience of the uber or the super. And it's technically the super ego. The voice that berates us with good and bad left and right, whose job it is to give rise to the function of values and soul to make meaning. According to nietzche the advent of morals imprisons man but also makes man and life interesting. With us finding reasons for our pain. This part of the concept of good and bad divides value in to category, and rationale into fixed position for what is good and bad and why you suffer.

This doesn't help you achieve the sublime. or understand the abyss as the pillow that it is. Because you are still being punished for it forever being caste into the negative in the good and evil phase.
Walter Willyledge - Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:40:26 EST ID:UgAS1X+C No.208240 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208239 the entire thing being historically interesting and good fuel for social commentary. But asphyxiating or trapping for the human mind and soul.

Nietzche believes this is the human being refusing to diversify and expand it's mental diet.

Leftism and the bounds of political correctness by Phoebe Sabberspear - Mon, 29 May 2017 19:41:21 EST ID:esq3c4wi No.208164 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Is there anyone here is who is on the side of the protesters here? I cannot for the life of me conjure a justification for this nonsense
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Nell Hunkinwater - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 03:16:58 EST ID:+XN4QoUK No.208215 Ignore Report Quick Reply

>even more passive aggressive smuggery

keep this up and i too will be checking regularly. pure schadenfreude.
Nell Hunkinwater - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 03:18:26 EST ID:+XN4QoUK No.208216 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>stay on topic
>what about bathrooms

fucking lawl
Polly Gaffingfoot - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 03:32:31 EST ID:Ya59RsKY No.208217 Ignore Report Quick Reply
If you had bothered to respond to my question about bathrooms, I would've explained the connection (which should already be painfully obvious without needing to even state it.) That's called the Socratic method, argumentation in a circle.

>>keep this up and i too will be checking regularly. pure schadenfreude.
Until you start posting like a normal contributing /pss/ poster, with at least *some* degree of thought and pretense at dialectic before going off on shit posting tangents (which is how most posters here operate) you can guarantee I will be up your ass and harassing you every single time you post. You're disrupting the discussion I was hoping to have in this thread, even though I'm not even OP. Obviously we're not going to get that now, but if you learn your lesson, maybe eventually this thread can become not shit again (actually it was always shit, but it took quite a dive with your posts, which is saying something) and hopefully you won't do it to any other threads.
Nell Hunkinwater - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 04:32:13 EST ID:+XN4QoUK No.208218 Ignore Report Quick Reply

spiteful little prick arent you. sad. have this "discussion" you wish to have with yourself, thats really what you wanted to do. talk about going full circle.
Polly Gaffingfoot - Tue, 06 Jun 2017 04:46:27 EST ID:Ya59RsKY No.208219 Ignore Report Quick Reply
No, I'll have it with
i.e. the other posters who came to this thread to discuss OP, rather than hear you screech.

Concision by Penis Flappingsack - Sun, 30 Apr 2017 22:40:11 EST ID:Sc8Oin8v No.208079 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Following the Anger Masturbation thread's theme of examining how to have better discussions, I'd like to discuss, or at least mention, concision. Often the most thoughtful posts on /pss/ are also some of the longest. I suspect that less people read them because of their length, and I imagine that this issue is worse yet when people are trying to read through a full back-and-forth in a thread. For the vast majority of you who concern yourselves with effective communication, I remind you to edit your posts down for concision when able.
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Martha Forringhood - Thu, 11 May 2017 10:09:46 EST ID:qmIpAjjo No.208132 Ignore Report Quick Reply
schools (in the us and canada at least) unintentionally train kids to inflate their wordcount so they can get essays done easier. Often times the only grading metric is proper grammar/spelling, and word/letter count. I bet that's part of why you get posts like this.
John Snodshaw - Thu, 11 May 2017 23:59:42 EST ID:8ZoPLUhY No.208136 Ignore Report Quick Reply
That's a good point. Rhetoric training should focus more on sentence structure and critical thinking. Grammar should be subject to clarity of ideas expressed.
Phineas Drorrykane - Mon, 29 May 2017 20:42:59 EST ID:CTxDZjmw No.208166 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Moving forward is tough. We like to use big words to stop normies from knowing what we're saying. That seems to slow us down though.
Charlotte Sagglechotch - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:55:08 EST ID:tqlhDf06 No.208176 Ignore Report Quick Reply
He makes a good point. Look at chemistry, philosophy, or music theory. The use of "big words" in these fields is out of necessity, not pompousness, and this is true for many other fields of study as well. The one real problem with this specialization is, as he points out, that problems arise due to stagnation and inaccuracy when they cut themselves off too much.
Phineas Nickleson - Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:59:45 EST ID:Ya59RsKY No.208184 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Thread on concision
Is itself very concise
Parsimony reigns

On The Nature of Evil by The Fool !oj3475yHBQ - Sat, 18 Feb 2017 02:19:24 EST ID:drDI4Zd2 No.207739 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Evil is something that is misunderstood, because it is something that does not see itself. Evil does not see itself because of the nature of ego… Let us say that there is a man, who passes a homeless person on the street, whom he gives money to. The nature of ego is such that the man does not give the homeless man money because he believes what he is doing is morally righteous, but because he has become addicted to the pleasure received from the concept of doing good.

This phenomenon is both what the ego is, and a state of psychosis which when fully manifested results in a psychopathic personality. It is a feed-back loop of emotion and want which is self-perpetuating. At the route of this phenomenon is the repression of an emotional state so great, that it becomes the defining memory of the individuals’ personality. Usually this state of Psychosis is triggered by the most extreme acts: rape, murder, and torture. Because these acts become what the host ego identifies with, the identifying ego naturally seeks to perpetuate itself through a repetition and justification of these acts. As such a bruised ego comes from an opinion of a thing that contradicts the validity of this reality. This is why if you judge a murderer you will likely be murdered, not because you deserve it, but because the ego of the murderer cannot stand to face what it sees as a contradiction to it’s being. Thus the bad always blames the good for its own nature, and so the good becomes a receptacle of sin for others.

Because society represses what is seen as immoral, and it is these immoral acts that define the personality of psychotics, the psychopath cannot truly be who they are in regular society, and therefore must seek out the experiences which they believe define them.

But this leaves the question to be answered as how to and why a person would identify him/herself with things that are considered emotionally negative in the first place. The answer to this is simple, that psychosis is a defense mechanism, which reverses a negative situation into a positive one so that the individual does not go insane. A murderer gains pleasure from a murder in order to protect ones sanity, a rapist identifies himself with rape and so rapes, a rape victim snaps and enjoys the experience so she does not loose her mind, a torture victim becomes masochistic, while the torturer becomes sadistic.

As a result of this process one observes that the psychotic personality consists of multiple levels of ego that exist in denial of each other, but are used by the emotional feedback loop of seeking an identity, to justify the foundational experience of the psychosis. Because the layers of ego that are not of the foundational reality contradict said reality, they cannot exists along side it, and so the psychotic can truly deny their foundation, and believe that they deny it, yet do everything they can to reenact the foundational experience.

In other words, the psychotic is stuck in a loop of self-justification used to perpetuate something so negative it has become a positive and foundational aspect of the hosts’ psychology.

To all those who do not suffer yet do, I am real. Your medicine is on its way. The self-justification you have been seeking is at hand, for I will never give up until we understand each other, when you are no longer judged, and the cycle of violence will end. I forgive you.

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Hedda Buzzfuck - Sat, 18 Feb 2017 20:20:27 EST ID:Ya59RsKY No.207745 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Thnx m8.
Nicholas Pockdale - Sat, 18 Feb 2017 22:18:35 EST ID:7xOxbFjC No.207746 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Lord of the flies
Betsy Begglemork - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 05:38:15 EST ID:hvs4h/ox No.207849 Ignore Report Quick Reply
continue your series on morality and pleasure.

I remember the old ones and see how some things have developed here and wow.

That is great work.

I still contend that while this description is one i believe. That while technically it robs you of your identity and free willing sanity, so that willing and santity become harder even if it's not chained to a violent ritual, but instead lets say flicking the lights on and off ten times every time. This defense mechanism is for the severest shocks and a traumas the human soul goes through. Fighting your way back to a wholeness and reconciling and accepting and loving yourself in the new condition are powerful tools. That lead to new life out of a condition that seems broken.

the idea of male love the desire or the chase and tied to the concept of lack and attainment and female love or the unattainable.

also relates to the structure or the loop invovled in trauma. Or the difference between conscious thought and perhaps non critical non self asserted or out of what is control thought.

That's why one might struggle against psychosis but it's also why one might keep their sanity. Which is essence.

I can't remember which philosophy asserts it but, a kind of knowing is related in this philosophy as the noose, or the idea of the concious collecting or grabbing something.
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Jarvis Blinnerspear - Fri, 19 May 2017 23:48:26 EST ID:U9scTQrw No.208155 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The eye that sees evil is evil.
The Fool !oj3475yHBQ - Mon, 22 May 2017 02:03:43 EST ID:hX9kQ/Yg No.208159 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It takes a thief to catch a thief.

Philosophical anime by Simon Blackshaw - Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:44:49 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.205314 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Anybody got any philosophically deep anime recommendations?
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Blackie-Chan - Wed, 15 Mar 2017 05:07:40 EST ID:P5jbTK9T No.207878 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Why has nobody posted about Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

It has Plato's Cave parallels, the Will to Power, an Ubermensch AND an Ubermensch successor, morally ambiguous decisions, inspiring and hot-blooded speeches, awesome art, music, and characters.
Its a show that is almost impossible to NOT be inspired by due to its insistence that determination, fighting spirit, and love can win against any threat and break and bonds that humans may have.
What's not to like?
Lydia Sinkintane - Thu, 16 Mar 2017 14:51:48 EST ID:upgdBNHk No.207889 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Revy doesn't care about anything. She's a nihilist.

"Oh, that must be exhausting."
Walter Shakewill - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 09:58:36 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.207966 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Gurren Lagann was quite a tale. It had many twists and turns, many true moral dilemmas. It was very well-done. Truly, Kill La Kill pales in comparison to TTGL in terms of philosophy, but Kill La Kill was fun in it's own way; the director was really showing off his animation and just having fun satiring the shonen community. Truly a show for stoners.

I recently re-watched Shin Sekai Yori (From the New World). What a fantastic show. What makes it especially fantastic is that the protagonist slowly learns the true nature of her village, the last bastion of civilization, is a totalitarian/fascist community, and at first she fights against this, thinking her society wrong for slaying innocents and such, yet as she grows and experiences more of the chaotic nature of life, she eventually realizes that this totalitarian/fascist way of life is truly the only way to survive. This anime truly flips morality on it's head and shows that what we consider just and right is merely reflective of how humanity is doing, and that as humanity declines, so must our rights as individuals in favor of the majority, because civilization must survive over the individual.

And then you've got fucking movies like Snow Piercer where, when faced with a dilemma between old-school morality and the utter survival of the human race, the hero chooses old-school morality and damns humanity to death merely for not living up to his standards of justice. In choosing between one young and innocent boy sacrificing himself to a life of torture for the sake of keeping society alive, the protagonist opts to save the boy and allow humanity as a whole to crumble and die.
Jarvis Blinnerspear - Fri, 19 May 2017 23:46:35 EST ID:U9scTQrw No.208154 Ignore Report Quick Reply
In my opinion, none of them are "philosophically deep" because that's not their purpose, and in comparison to actual philosophical works (which are all books), they're all horribly shallow. That goes for anime and manga.

But, Berserk draws heavily from Nietzsche and from western media that drew from Nietzsche. Vagabond has some neat concepts of course based on Musashi. Akira is a little Nietzsche inspired. Eden: It's An Endless World tries to establish connections to Gnosticism. That's all I can think of at the moment.
Ian Bliddlefoot - Sat, 20 May 2017 15:11:56 EST ID:ChAktkJf No.208156 Ignore Report Quick Reply
it's disappointing how after all the moral social and philosophical ranting the ending lesson of Eden was just "lol have hope things will get better if you have hope". He really sort of gave up halfway through, perhaps earlier. I don't think that guy had any idea what he wanted to do with that series to begin with., he just liked robots killing each other and spewing ideology and quotes he doesn't fully understand. the gnostic stuff seemed more like window dressing to me, like how evangelion uses it. dude's got talent but no focus.

frankfurt school by Priscilla Gaddlefat - Sun, 05 Mar 2017 19:09:16 EST ID:ypqGZf3j No.207836 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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is it safe to say that no one who believes in "cultural marxism" and points to the frankfurt school as some spooky bohemian grove type of thing where a bunch of jews gathered to decide the fate of the world has actually read this thing?
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Eliza Pickstone - Thu, 11 May 2017 23:14:08 EST ID:2ml6FJEz No.208134 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Why would you say that?
Eliza Pickstone - Thu, 11 May 2017 23:34:10 EST ID:2ml6FJEz No.208135 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It's kind of like how you didn't call yourself on "your" but you called me on "know"

You have to deal with yourself the same way as others or you experience deception from deflecting "not a" or corrupt into society when in reality it's something like your own reflection.
Jarvis Bunlock - Fri, 12 May 2017 09:34:03 EST ID:CMVbW7K1 No.208137 Ignore Report Quick Reply
stop talking gibberish
Eliza Pickstone - Fri, 12 May 2017 18:08:09 EST ID:2ml6FJEz No.208139 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well you called me a rhizome
Sophie Bonderwater - Fri, 12 May 2017 22:39:11 EST ID:CMVbW7K1 No.208144 Ignore Report Quick Reply

If Muslims were White by Charles Hoffingshaw - Tue, 04 Apr 2017 09:40:56 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.207974 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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100% serious question, this is about how society responds to race.

How would the conversation about Muslims change if they weren't mostly brown, but instead mostly white?
Like, what if the 9/11 guys were white, and all these people fighting in the ME were white, all the people bombing India and Malaysia were white, all the people who were banned by Trump were white? What if the people wearing Burqas that were being banned were all white?
How would people react? What would they say?
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Doris Channerkut - Tue, 02 May 2017 05:22:12 EST ID:d4DXKOh3 No.208083 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Fuck off back to circlejerk you fucking stormfront immigrant. Fuck off, your kind is not wanted here.
Lillian Susslestone - Wed, 03 May 2017 12:01:14 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.208095 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Your kind is not wanted here.
Graham Crarryworth - Wed, 03 May 2017 12:10:09 EST ID:BlTpIi6J No.208096 Report Quick Reply
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I'd say suck my MOAB, bitches!
Syn !ryBONGJej. - Wed, 03 May 2017 12:11:28 EST ID:BlTpIi6J No.208097 Report Quick Reply
Both of you stop fighting.
Jenny Dungerspear - Mon, 08 May 2017 08:32:51 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.208126 Ignore Report Quick Reply
So kind of you, Syn, to tell both of us to stop fighting when this jagoff just came up to me austistically screeching while I was actively discussion philosophy.
Just lump me, the one philosophizing, in with the "GO BACK TO 4SKIN" thread derailers.

Game of Thrones by Walter Shakewill - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 10:02:01 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.207967 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Let's talk about a subject everyone can understand; Game of Thrones.
Who your favorite GoT characters are, in my opinion, says a lot about who you are as a person.

Of course, my favorite character by far is Cersei Lannister. She truly deserves the Iron Throne. I originally loved Robert Baratheon, Ed Stark and Drogo, but they all died on me very quickly. Now, after all 6 seasons, I have to say that Cersei is truly an amazing character. I also loved Ramsay Bolton very much, as he was the sort of Hannibal Lecter of Westeros. His antics often ended with me proclaiming aloud, 'Oh Ramsay.'
Walter Shakewill - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 10:05:26 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.207968 Ignore Report Quick Reply
To tackle this subject from a philosophical point of view, I guess it's just impressive to see how much willpower Cersei has. Cersei is definitely a fearless hedonist with more emotional strength than any of the other characters. She never makes half-hearted moves, and she never tells the truth. Truly, she is a warrior woman like Robert Barathion, only Robert was a warrior on the battlefield while Cersei is a warrior at politics, a titan behind closed-doors.
Walter Donningforth - Mon, 10 Apr 2017 18:38:31 EST ID:KvXjjDsO No.208006 Ignore Report Quick Reply
My favorite philosophical meaning is between Ned stark and vaerys before ned stark's eventual beheading. Where vaerys tries to explain his understanding of this as preternaturally related to his time in a theatrical troupe. And how he understands power and the realm the same way.
Ian Blythestock - Tue, 11 Apr 2017 17:42:27 EST ID:Z08uqMmD No.208011 Ignore Report Quick Reply
My favorite character is Tyrion. I guess I find him relateable since I'm more of a behind the scenes type of leader, but he's pragmatic, a tactician, and takes the lead when he has to make difficult decisions for what he believes is the correct reasons.

Cersei is definitely a boss and a half and I have alot of respect for her "no half-measures" approach.

I liked Jon Snow alot in the books, but I feel like he's not been done justice in the show. He's a warrior baptized in fire, never groomed for leadership but assumed it because he was needed, rejecting tradition in favor of survival.

I guess that's what truly connects all of them for me, they were unassuming, thrust into great trials that challenged their lives, and rose above the adversity more powerful and defiant in the face of death.

They are all true survivors.

Danaerys is too emotional for me with her decision making. Which contradicts me support of Jon Snow since he ruined his well entrenched position vs the Bolton's to save his brother, but it's his brother ya know? I mean, I can let that slide. It'd be hard to watch a little sibling be massacred in front of you and doing nothing about it.

Zoroastrianism by Hannah Haddlestone - Sun, 15 Jan 2017 03:26:24 EST ID:Vz5f1vq5 No.207599 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Yo /pss/,

What do you recommend I read if I want to know more about Zoroastrianism? Specifically orthodox but I'm open to any good material on the subject. My limitedresearch so far keeps telling me that the original holy texts are all written in a language that doesn't really translate well, so unlike other religions I can't just go and read their holy book because I've had trouble understanding which texts are the equivalent of canon. I want to get a deeper understanding than just what's in the wikipedia article, Help a dude out?
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Ghengis Dong - Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:53:26 EST ID:taL6BOqF No.207949 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>would you mind giving us a brief history of that outline?
I can try, but be warned, I'm no historian.

As far as I can tell, there isn't an authoritative dating for their first appearances, but historians in antiquity usually attributed the first written gathas to around 1000BC to the prophet Zartosht (Zoroaster).

According the the scriptures, Zoroaster presented his writings to his patron Vishtaspa around 1000BC, the teachings were put in to practice there and the writings preserved until the conquest of Alexander the Great when the religion was suppressed and its texts looted/burned. However portions of the texts appear in Greek-made translations at this time (around 4-3rd Century BC) and there was a great diffusion of these writings throughout the Hellenic world.

After this period, there was a revivalist movement beginning under King Valaxš of Arsacid Persia, and the old-Avesta, as historians call it, was completed under Shapur II during the Sasanian Empire, around the 4th century.

Zoroastrianism was the state-religion of the Sasanian Empire so this is where the teachings acquired their orthodoxy. The accounts of the scholars of this period on the origins of the texts are unreliable and based on legend. The only dating of the gathas is done by linguistic analysis, so it's extremely unclear. According to the article I posted: "Until the advent of the Sasanians, and even under their regime, Iran was a country in which written documents were conspicuously rare... It is clear that the writers of the Pahlavi books shared our ignorance of the prehistory of the Avesta. However, we can concede that it does preserve the memory (though in legendary form) of a real break in the religious tradition, or of its splitting into sects, as a result of the absence of a unifying political power after the Greek conquest"

After the Sasanian empire until the rise of Islam not a lot is known:

"Of the history of the Avestan texts from the collapse of the Sasanian empire and the oldest manuscripts in our possession little is known. We know that the Muslim conquest and the dispersal of the Mazdean communities caused a weakening of the religious tradition and a decline of the liturgical elocution, which caused damage to the written transmission of the Avesta. Also, examination of the manuscripts reveals mistakes which prove that all of them derive from a single common ancestor, which K. Hoffmann (Aufsätze II, p. 515) calls the “base manuscript” and places in the ninth to tenth century A.D."
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Simon Dreddletirk - Tue, 28 Mar 2017 05:26:09 EST ID:GoJD6tHg No.207950 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Please do. Did you get all that info from the site you linked?
Ghengis Dong - Wed, 29 Mar 2017 00:20:08 EST ID:mQSzo9rp No.207952 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Did you get all that info from the site you linked?

Yup. But when I read over my post, I notice a couple necessary revisions and poorly worded parts which irk the shit out of me:

"Old Avesta" is not a historical term, but commonly refers to the original Gathas.

Our oldest manuscripts that reference them come from Hellenic Era scholars.

During the Arsacid, Seleucid ,and Parthian Empires (reign varied throughout the region, but roughly 3rd century BC to 3rd century AD), long periods of foreign rule and strife led to movements which attempted to reclaim/revive the heritage of the Achaemenid Empire (pre-Hellenic Persia) and its holy texts (the gathas).

The Sasanian Empire rising in the 3rd century AD would enforce a strict codified form of the religion which venerated these texts, the gathas, still preserved in archaic old -Persian from centuries prior (sometimes referred to itself as the old-Avesta).

In addition they would compile the bulk of the "Yasna", hymns and rituals deemed canon, which includes practices developed in the later Parthian period (hence why it differs linguistically and has been informally referred to as the "young-avesta")
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Ghengis Dong - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 14:46:48 EST ID:taL6BOqF No.207969 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Kay I'll begin with an examination of the original gathas:

In these verses Zoroaster gives devotion to Ahura-Mazda. The supreme being. http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/ahura-mazda

"Some of the words spoken of Ahura Mazdā (aka: Ohrmuzd) in the Avesta have echoes in Vedic celebrations of Mitra and Varuṇa. In one evidently archaic verse (Y. 41.3) his worshippers say to him, “We establish Thee as the god possessing good supernatural power (maya-), zealous, accompanied by aša,” while in the Gāthās Zoroaster hails him as “all-seeing” (Y. 45.4) and “seeing afar” (Y. 33.13), the one “whom none deceives” (Y. 43.6). The prophet also speaks of him as “clad in hardest stone” i.e. the sky (Y. 30.5), although he also uses terms which suggest an anthropomorphic concept, in keeping with general Indo-Iranian religious tradition, e.g. “the tongue of Thy mouth” (Y. 31.3, cf. Y. 28.11), “the hand with which Thou holdest. . .” (Y. 43.4). Zoroaster gave a wholly new dimension to his worship, however, by hailing him as the one uncreated God (Y. 30.3, 45.2), wholly wise, benevolent and good, Creator as well as upholder of aša

aša is Truth and is the highest virtue. It is counterposed by "drug" (sometimes "druj") the Lie. All evil stems from deception. Just as Mazda is the uncreated manifestation of truth and virtue he has an uncreated counterpart or 'twin' in the form of Angra Mainyu (aka: Ahriman).

"This is the Hostile Spirit, Angra Mainyu. Zoroastrian tradition (e.g., Bundahišn 1.3) states plainly what is adumbrated in the Gāthās, that Ahura Mazdā became the Creator (Av. Dadvah, Dātār, Pahl. Dādār)—this being his constant appellation—to destroy Angra Mainyu, and so to achieve a universe that was wholly good. In one Gathic verse he is said to have achieved creation by his “thought” (Y. 31.11), but elsewhere his instrument is said to have been his Holy or Bounteous Spirit, Spənta Mainyu"

The first of Ahura Mazdā’s creative acts was to emanate the six great Beings known from the tradition as the Aməša Spəntas ("ahuras" or Spirits in the original gathas). These along with Spənta Mainyu make 7 divine entities but it's not strictly speaking polytheistic

"The relationship of Ahura Mazdā to the six Aməša Spəntas is again a subtle one, and its closeness is expressed metaphorically by the prophet when he calls Ahura Mazdā the father of Aša and of Vohu Manah... but it is conveyed even more vividly by his addressing Ahura Mazdā now [sic] as “Thou,” now (when he conceives of him together with one or more of the Aməša Spəntas)
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Ghengis Dong - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 17:04:31 EST ID:taL6BOqF No.207971 Ignore Report Quick Reply
sorry for so many problems with the characters/accents. When the thread is expanded it reads as normal.


"Ethics" by Polly Cezzlestock - Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:49:27 EST ID:YXMsMuFM No.207869 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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So, CRISPR is coming into its own. If you don't know about this new gene-engineering technique, then check this link:


Essentially it's a rehash of a natural system found in protists that's now used to make targeted and precise edits in any genome the user wants. It's revolutionizing genetical biology world-wide, but the research into its obvious health implications is stymied by so called ethics in most of the first world.

So I'd like to discuss ethics and science. I'm just not talking about CRISPR, but general modern miracles of science that's hampered by old-world thinking like surrogacy, embryonic stem-cell research or replacement of mitochondria in fertilized cells Which can heal an inherited, rare and lethal decease but is outlawed in most of the world because courts decided the resulting child ends up with "three parents", even though the child only share mitochondrial DNA with the donor.

Now obviously I'm on the liberal side of the debate here, but I wanna know what /pss/ think about these new technologies. Should we play "god" in order to save/improve lives, or is there a thin red line Humanity shouldn't cross? Are these ethical concerns really grounds for outlawing certain possible techniques, or are these ethics remnants of a world where life was the realm of religion?
Frederick Chezzlewick - Sat, 11 Mar 2017 15:20:44 EST ID:d4DXKOh3 No.207871 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Ignoring personal experiences due to a nephew dying at the age of 7 from a genetic disease, fucking hell yeah we need to play God.

We will need all the tools we can get to ensure that humanity will survive the coming 10,000 years and won't end up as a bunch of fossils.
Cyril Gadgekeg - Fri, 17 Mar 2017 19:13:33 EST ID:4+oWREai No.207900 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Speaking as one that was born with a unique and extremely rare disease, yes. Yes, let's "play god". It's one thing to only give this tech to the elites so they can change their DNA to make them into supreme geniuses and everyone else becomes a slave caste.

It's another thing to cure disease. Imagine reversing down syndrome and these one's can actually lead a life of greater potential.

Only people that disagree with such a thing are religious goobers and or people that have no idea what it's like to live with an illness.

David Pakman recently with Matthew Liao on this very subject: http://philtech.io/class-blog/2016/11/the-crispr-future-might-be-a-little-blurred/ (not the interview. it's currently for members atm. )

The idea of being cured yet having religious morons taking that cure away from me and others infuriates me. It's like those moral turds that go against assisted suicide when someone is dying from terminal cancer. Who are these people? Where did they get their nerve?

Fuck your ethics! Give me the goods, doc!
Nathaniel Trotstock - Sat, 01 Apr 2017 12:34:27 EST ID:USA6SDn7 No.207956 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Being afraid of "playing god" is for people haunted by spooks.

CRISPR everyone up, fam.

Family by Caroline Nossleshaw - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 10:30:15 EST ID:54PBc7Id No.207850 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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What's up with family? What's up with heritage?
These things mean literally nothing to me, yet I notice so many people championing these things. Why do they do this?
Family is a group of people you share genetics with, who you have no choice of selecting, and heritage is people/events that have happened long in the past that you may be connected to genetically.
I don't understand the point in being proud of your heritage; you had nothing to do with it. I don't understand the point of being proud of your family; they're not you, nor are they people you've chosen to have in your life. And I don't understand the point of loving people simply because you share a genetic bond; there's nothing special about my genetics or anyone's genetics, really.

So what's up with this stuff? Why is it so significant to people?
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Frederick Driblingtack - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:32:06 EST ID:TZEgBuHq No.207927 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>What's up with family?

Without your family you wouldn't exist or you'd be dead, assuming you weren't rescued by some third party

>What's up with heritage?

Your culture is what your ancestors have been building for years and years, and there's a lot of value that comes with the cultures we're lucky enough to inherit. You're basically asking what the value of culture is. Heritage is accumulated culture across time and generations.

>These things mean literally nothing to me, yet I notice so many people championing these things. Why do they do this?

Because they know that without the human beings in their inner circle, which in most cases has the family at the center, and their culture, they would be swimming in an ocean of chaos and death that they wouldn't be able to deal with at all. The alternative is being born in the wilderness alone and freezing to death immediately or being eaten by something.

>I don't understand the point in being proud of your heritage

Your ancestors produced societies (and survived successfully pre-agriculture, which is in some ways even more remarkable) that allowed their genes to propagate over hundreds of years, which is pretty much a miracle in its unlikelihood, not to mention all the benefits of culture that you benefit from. Without these things you wouldn't have a history, which would mean you wouldn't have any foundation to build the future on, you wouldn't have art, you wouldn't be able to read these words or have any conception of what words are, etc.
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Sidney Bimmlestitch - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:49:00 EST ID:p5PWfvYz No.207931 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>you are the product of thousands of years of natural selection.
Natural selection isn't a process . Its closer to the lack of a process. Its fairer to say "you are whats left over after thousands of years of natural selection."
Not trying to be a dick just autism
Frederick Driblingtack - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:57:38 EST ID:TZEgBuHq No.207932 Ignore Report Quick Reply

I see what you're saying I think. Basically life just threw a bunch of shit at the wall and we're what stuck because it worked well enough.
David Pickdock - Tue, 21 Mar 2017 16:04:27 EST ID:Ya59RsKY No.207933 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It's still a process. Process doesn't necessarily imply intention or thought. The reactions of chemistry are described as processes, and occur as an entropic breakdown in the same way that evolution does, yet are still fantastically complex and multi-staged enough to be described as 'processes.'

Not trying to be a dick but just autisming harder.
Isabella Brucklespear - Wed, 29 Mar 2017 17:00:54 EST ID:uRNFOzYS No.207954 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I disagree with you too, but not for David's reasons. I think that natural selection can seem like "a lack of a process" in that randomness has a huge effect on it, however on an evolutionary scale, myriad traits have substantial effects on the results of selection. Not trying to be a dick just aiming for max autis

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