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who even am I by Barnaby Cashkure - Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:28:27 EST ID:Q9kaYENz No.208281 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I had an interaction with my daughter just now and it spiraled into some sort of existential terror

My son and daughter were in their room supposed to be going to sleep, but I heard her come out of her room and was just coming out to give me a hug.

I didn't react negatively to this - I don't want to say because I'm a nice person - but just because I am the way that I am. You might wonder, why would anyone react negatively to something like that? I don't know. But there are people in the world that would have.

They would have screamed at her for coming out of her room when she's supposed to be in bed, and she would have gone back to bed heartbroken when all she wanted was a hug. And thus the relationship between her and her parent would have been damaged (even further than it probably already would have been).

And when thinking this through, I thought "Well, I sure am glad that I'm not that way." But isn't that strange? I didn't get to decide or choose to be the way that I am. Or at the very least, I didn't choose to be the type of person that chooses to be the way that I am. I just randomly rolled these "stats".

It's horrifying to imagine everything that I could have been.
>>
Barnaby Cashkure - Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:39:19 EST ID:Q9kaYENz No.208282 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208281
Ever since I read the part about free will in Beyond Good and Evil it's been completely fucking with my head. I've heard arguments for and against free will a zillion times but Nietzsche just blows it apart.
>>
Polly Goodstone - Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:23:50 EST ID:8gq7GAVV No.208283 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well, that is how it is, isn't it?

I was never free to post this message, fluctuations in the cosmos at the start of the big bang set in motion the events that caused me to post this post, and you to read it.

We are all molecular trains riding on our little tracks, and you know what? There is a comfort in it.
Like how I used to believe in how God had a plan. Except without the fear of an omnicidal fascist sky Hitler cunt spying on me all day. Just me living in my own little action/reaction cage, just observing where life will take me.

Not like you can do anything about it...
>>
Cedric Hubbershaw - Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:33:37 EST ID:7RQyvIWs No.208284 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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i feel u bruh
>>
Reuben Bishfuck - Mon, 24 Jul 2017 21:40:58 EST ID:vwIDntc2 No.208291 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This knowledge is why I'm extremely accepting of just about everyone and everything. They didn't have a choice, no one did, it's just how the universe turned out.
>>
Doris Mobblelock - Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:03:17 EST ID:lCodc2Fn No.208387 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208283
I've always subscribed to hard determinism, but my chemist of a brother seems convinced that quantum entanglement somehow proves our free will, unfortunately I'm not able to understand.
>>
Charlotte Sugglebanks - Fri, 18 Aug 2017 17:38:56 EST ID:8gq7GAVV No.208389 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208387
Chemistry has nothing to do with quantum physics, so your brother is full of it.
>>
Frederick Blackson - Sat, 19 Aug 2017 01:10:17 EST ID:UIYk/9cB No.208390 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208387
I guess one question I would ask proponents of hard determinism is: why would it matter if hard determinism is true when we're already finitely knowledgeable and reasonable?

From the perspective of an omniscient being, of course you would say objectively, everything is predetermined, etc.

But we aren't infinite nor omniscient. By virtue of being limited and finite, we can only conceive of particular possibilities to an event and from these particular possibilities there is nonetheless the option to choose among those possibilities.
>>
Nell Sillershaw - Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:01:50 EST ID:8gq7GAVV No.208392 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>208390
It doesn't matter. None 'a dis matters.
>>
Esther Pobberhood - Sun, 20 Aug 2017 03:26:47 EST ID:4FAq+MEK No.208394 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208390

Because it never mattered as an existential concept, it's an argument that exists to persuade people into doing what you want, if not for that we wouldn't give a fuck.
>>
Beatrice Greenfuck - Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:58:22 EST ID:CXveGuus No.208401 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208389

HAHAHAHAHAHA what the fuck are you talking about? electron probability clouds (i.e. one of the fundamental aspects of modern chemistry) were conceived via quantum mechanics
>>
Basil Blemmerwill - Fri, 25 Aug 2017 02:53:33 EST ID:8gq7GAVV No.208402 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208401
You goddamn fucking retard. Quantum mechanics have no influence on above-subatomic processes due to the observer effect. Your brain functions on a molecular level, meaning its processes are too big to get influenced by quantum mechanics. All parts of your brain are constantly causing the observer effect.
>>
Arren Kae - Sat, 26 Aug 2017 15:52:21 EST ID:e8hfwBjx No.208406 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>208390
>By virtue of being limited and finite, we can only conceive of particular possibilities to an event and from these particular possibilities there is nonetheless the option to choose among those possibilities.
>the option to choose among those possibilities

That is very the assumption cited by proponents of hard determinism. By asserting that, as a defense of free will, we have the option to choose, you are only constructing a circular argument, and have failed to address the question at large: how can we know that we really had any choice, if we cannot go back and will the happening of any other outcome?

>>208401
Watch how, despite all of your wisdom, one small error, the choice to attack someone else, has led to an immediate downward spiral in the quality of replies. For all the knowledge you might have shared, all you have wrought is anger and silence.
>>
Graham Mobberhag - Sat, 09 Sep 2017 14:02:50 EST ID:hAlFpoKZ No.208418 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>208406

Kreia is a cunt.
>>
Reuben Gallysit - Sat, 09 Sep 2017 17:54:17 EST ID:T8KSfSmg No.208419 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Im currently reading Free Will by Sam Harris, and it makes a strong case against the notion of free will.


here is a pdf:
https://www.docdroid.net/5ty6HuO/free-will-sam-harris.pdf
>>
Shitting Serrymug - Sun, 17 Sep 2017 21:11:14 EST ID:astY1ea6 No.208420 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208418
Kreia is the most well-written character in the expanded star wars universe.
>>
Samuel Buzzbanks - Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:12:42 EST ID:dTd47cE1 No.208427 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208387

The issue is that it's not free vs determinism, so while there HAVE been findings in quantum physics that suggest some issues with physical causal determinism (check out bell's theorems), these findings do not, in themselves, solve any of the serious philosophical issues facing free will. As anon mentioned earlier in this thread, check out Beyond Good and Evil by Nietzsche for a good explanation of what the most problematic aspects of libertarian free will are.

To elaborate briefly on why a point against determinism is not a point for free will, consider that what physicists have discovered that is so threatening to determinism is the idea of true randomness in quantum phenomena. Not just unpredictable but fundamentally non deterministic events. So that is an issue for the view that the universe is a perfectly consistent wind up clock, yes, but in what way does randomness provide an explanation for free will? A random event cannot be caused by a willing agent, anymore than it can be caused by anything at all. If it was caused, then it wasn't really random was it? And vice versa, if an event is truly random, how could it be said to be the effect of a sovereign agent?
>>
Molly Worthingstone - Fri, 22 Sep 2017 05:17:26 EST ID:qFV6v+im No.208433 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208427

How would you even be able to distinguish between random and unpredictable?
>>
Matilda Dirryhall - Sun, 24 Sep 2017 03:59:49 EST ID:HNJfvXnY No.208437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208433

The distinction I think is between a lack of knowledge concerning the mechanics of a physical-causal system and the impossibility of their being a complete physical-causal model of certain systems. I'm not an expert on this though, that's why I say to investigate bell's theorems. The words of the physicist can aid the philosopher in mentally organizing his ontology.
>>
Barnaby Cungerbudge - Fri, 29 Sep 2017 01:35:49 EST ID:XypP1lD0 No.208445 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208406
Oh well it looks like I'm a hard determinist then lol. I don't think I was making a case for free will from an "objective" perspective. But nonetheless I think that thus objective free will is distinct from a subjective one precisely because of our finite nature. That is, we can know objectively or logically that our free will is an illusion but we can never subjectively know that. Does that make sense at all?


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