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Racism by Hamilton Soggledene - Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:12:18 EST ID:KAVbWdaM No.208576 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Simple question. And I am looking for more insight into the line of thinking based on upbringing, and community ideals.

Why is it acceptable to call someone white, or black,l. But is taboo to call someone red or yellow?

Is it as simple as social conditioning? Or does it play a deeper part in the group psychology?
>>
Lydia Trotbanks - Sat, 30 Dec 2017 22:12:42 EST ID:PwzxhROR No.208579 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208576
Words which are considered 'bad' or 'offensive' go through phases. At one point is was not acceptable to call someone black, now it is. Does that mean the N word will make a resurgence? Maybe, but maybe not. I think this is an interesting subject but I kind of doubt anyone on this board is the type of graduate-educated linguist who can give you a good answer
>>
Hannah Suzzleladge - Sat, 30 Dec 2017 22:41:06 EST ID:ieWqoSun No.208581 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This version of the term dichotomy you describe is specifically a north american issue, it doesn't necessarily scan to other english-language locales. But, it really doesn't require much thought. Obviously, social conditioning is 100% responsible for the enforcement and propagation of those norms, what else could be? As for why they're different, it doesn't reveal some woo-woo psychological foible, it's entirely historical. 'Red' and 'Yellow' were majorly used as offensive terms for an out group that was seen as hostile enemies to be overcome with military force (first the Native Americans in the conquest of the west, then later Japanese and Vietnamese in the 20th c. wars) whereas 'Blacks' were never seen as an organized hostile enemy to whites, just an underclass to be kept that way. This more or less survives in the modern connotation of calling someone these offensive terms carries; while they all share the implication of 'other,' 'red' and 'yellow' additionally communicate 'dangerous' and 'foreign' while 'black' communicates 'primitive' and 'servile.' It has never been offensive to call someone 'white,' because for as long as propagandized racism has existed, whites have been at the top. The idea of social hierarchy and inequality of power is so intrinsic to racism, it doesn't even make sense without it -- otherwise, it would just be shorthand for groups of characteristics. So it could never be offensive to essentially complement someone -- 'you're so at the top of the hierarchy, and my singling you out for your race further highlights your supremacy!' -- just doesn't work as an insult.

That's why racist terms are often called 'dog-whistles' -- they communicate a huge wealth of historical biases and propaganda in something that, on the surface, seems totally innocuous, like the names of colors. Very dangerous, very bad, very sloppy cognitive biases we would all do best to move beyond.
>>
Hamilton Fabberbanks - Sun, 31 Dec 2017 17:13:33 EST ID:5LJeqw/g No.208583 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208576
Maybe because people aren't actually yellow?
If you're referring to Asians you range from pale white (actual white not what white people think is "skin colour" which is like fucking ham pink) to dark brown.

And who the fuck is red? Native Americans? They're brown/black

what the fuck are you on about.
>>
Nathaniel Gummlepack - Sun, 07 Jan 2018 20:02:09 EST ID:cc26aplb No.208591 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208581
This is all fucked up and wrong
>' 'red' and 'yellow' additionally communicate 'dangerous' and 'foreign' while 'black' communicates 'primitive' and 'servile.'

This is obviously just your personal views, subconsciously typed out or otherwise. They also obviously aren't accurate to what the entire world's views have been in the past until now, if if they are views that some people have had. You also seem to assume that the only people who's opinions matter are white, you don't even mention them, almost assuming they are the "norm". WHat about what native Africans thought of the term "black person". Or Inuits for that matter?

ANother thing is, thing is wrong:

> It has never been offensive to call someone 'white,' because for as long as propagandized racism has existed, whites have been at the top. The idea of social hierarchy and inequality of power is so intrinsic to racism, it doesn't even make sense without it -- otherwise, it would just be shorthand for groups of characteristics. So it could never be offensive to essentially complement someone -- 'you're so at the top of the hierarchy, and my singling you out for your race further highlights your supremacy!' -- just doesn't work as an insult.

I'm guessing you don't think the Native American's had slurs for the white man? That they thought white people were bad for invading? And what about right now, being white is associated with being boring, no rhythm compared to blacks, that white should pay for what their ancestors did to the other races, etc...

Though I agree with you about the dangerousness of using such simple terms as "black people" and "white people". I think it's actually very dangerous indeed, because we naturally think of black and white as a dichotomy, making the relations between "white people" and "black people" almost naturally divisive. It's fucking stupid, dangerous, and most likely engineered/pushed by TPTB to cause chaos on our planet. If only everyone knew about the yin-yang...
>>
Nathaniel Gummlepack - Sun, 07 Jan 2018 20:03:35 EST ID:cc26aplb No.208592 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208583
And whites aren't white and blacks aren't black, all humans are varying shades of brown. What are YOU on about?
>>
Nathaniel Wimmlelat - Tue, 09 Jan 2018 13:46:07 EST ID:ZS66X4xy No.208594 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208591
Please read posts before you get all butthurt over them.
>>aren't accurate to what the entire world's views
In my post I said:
This version of the term dichotomy you describe is specifically a north american issue
Moreover you claim:
>>This is obviously just your personal views
>>You also seem to assume that the only people who's opinions matter are white
Fuck. You. You don't know me man, how dare you tell me what my opinions are?
I was providing historical context for the history of the terms for color, and specifically the way they're used in NA. 'Black' means 'aboriginal' in Australia, but you don't get huffy about that? If you can't hear someone dispassionately describe the history of racism without automatically assuming the person talking about it is racist, you're either incredibly simple minded or a closet racist yourself.
It's obviously not the case that the people to whom these terms were applied opinion doesn't matter. Of course their opinion matters, but it's not germane to the question of the OP, which is why did the terms come to be seen as they are? Answering that question requires us to specify that the use of those english color terms to signify races is nearly a wholly white invention, which makes those terms etic demonyms, so an emic understanding of them is both irrelevant and confusing to comprehending their origin. Ergo, duh Natives had names for white people, but you can guarantee among them wasn't the english word 'white' (unless they were talking to English people.) When used in today's society, sure english speaking people will use white to refer to white people because that's the norm (that white people established) -- but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't carry the same connotation of offensiveness that red or yellow do, which is again, OPs point. Otherwise, why would there have been the need for invention of different english slurs for whites, like cracker, honky, howlie, etc? Do you see how my post addresses OP's question, while your post just gets huffy and defensive about how that can't be the explanation, and does nothing to provide it's own theory?

In summary, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. Attacking someone who ostensibly you agree with just because you don't like the content of the information they're giving out (or because you failed to read the whole context of the post as stated within it and then go off assuming 'hey, you didn't put this in it's real context you racist bastard!') is a great way to demonstrate whether or not you're an asshole, and a great way to lose allies in an argument.
>>
Simon Sengerchere - Tue, 09 Jan 2018 17:22:36 EST ID:65NWSo4c No.208596 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>208594
Well, at least I got you to explain yourself properly. And, you don't need allies in an argument to get to the truth, that will happen either way. Cheers.
>>
Simon Sengerchere - Tue, 09 Jan 2018 17:35:05 EST ID:65NWSo4c No.208597 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208594
By the way, this world deserves to be in a better place, a place where you can call someone a "monkey", using the recent H&M example, and instead of being offended that you used a word that has been used derogatorily against people of African descent, you are explosive with joy and reverence of your ape and primate ancestry. A world where "jolly african-american" means "dude" or "guy" again and inspires camamraderie, like it did in the 1800s Old West, or today in ghetto black neighbrohoods and white teenagers use "nigga" alike to mean "friend", instead of one where people use it against someone's descent or assume someone wants to hurt them when they say it. Call me a "word revivalist", but I think we could live in that world, really, one where true freedom is reachable and our collective planetary love powers our souls and spirits to previously unattainable heights. We cannot get there by allowing words power over us, being scared of the past, or banning and trying to get rid of or destroy certain ways of thinking. Think about what I said.
>>
Jarvis Cravinglick - Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:40:25 EST ID:8gq7GAVV No.208601 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>208597
Fun fact, I was discussing this with a gay guy at some party and some random guy walked past us and gave the gay guy shit for saying "faggot" within the context of the conversation.
It was just so absurd.
>>
Shit Blipperfun - Fri, 26 Jan 2018 23:11:59 EST ID:9zW8Ti/l No.208633 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Is it as simple as social conditioning? Or does it play a deeper part in the group psychology?

In the grand scheme of things, it's simply social conditioning. Group identity is made by the use of certain terms, and the rules of these terms can be pretty esoteric. In Australia for instance, it's almost encouraged for people to use the most insulting terms possible for their friends. Of course, people outside the friendship group using such terms would be considered insulting, but by the same token being overly formal would be considered an insult on it's own. Every culture has these implicit and explicit rules regarding social etiquette.

>Why is it acceptable to call someone white, or black,l. But is taboo to call someone red or yellow?

Specifically about these terms, like someone else said, that's an American way of doing things. "Red" and "yellow" were pretty common until the 60s/70s as I understand it. The terms became taboo for the same reason they were used. They connote otherness, illegitimacy, whereas "whiteness" (and, in black communities, "blackness") connotes authenticity.

There's actually a really good book called "Appropriating Blackness" that explains how the black community started to strictly police it's own ideas of "blackness" and exclude members of it's own community (especially gay people) on the grounds that they were undermining that group identity.


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