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Is Ayahuasca the answer? by Samuel Mipperpat - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:47:52 EST ID:u2DgC0KC No.881258 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1505231272971.jpg -(35304B / 34.48KB, 240x193) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 35304
I'll try and keep this short as possible and give you the tl;dr at the start...

Mid-30s, no career or relationship, anxiety, low-self-esteem, drifting through life with no sense of purpose and have felt completely miserable and out of options for a long time. Considering Ayahuasca.

I've never done any psychedelics. Never had access to them. I am in a position where I really feel the need to find "answers" but I get the feeling that maybe there are none and that searching for them is part of my problem. I am a very introspective and intuitive type of person by nature but also, very skeptical. I have been thinking about a Peruvian Ayahuasca retreat for a while but having watched numerous videos and documentaries, I get the impression its just another scam industry set up to rinse trust-fund hippies and naive, damaged people (like me). Having travelled a bit and been on a couple of meditation retreats, I have encountered many stereotypical hippie types who rave about Ayahuasca but who I generally found to be very conceited people playing around with a fake spiritual persona.

Whilst I don't doubt that Ayahuasca can have very real effects on a persons psyche and open certain doors of perception, I wonder if its something I should personally pursue. Ultimately, I see it as an escape from reality and whichever way I try and spin it, I would be looking for a panacea for life's problems which I know that NO plant or substance can provide. But I feel such a sense of desperation for inner change that extreme measures are called for.

What are your thoughts on someone such as myself taking Ayahuasca? Are there certain places/retreats to definitely avoid? How does one readapt to every day life having taken the plant and what would you say is the risk/reward ratio for a very neurotic person.

Sorry for the long post but I didn't know where else to ask and you guys seem to know your stuff

Peace and thanks
>>
John Gurrydale - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:09:16 EST ID:2j9zxonq No.881259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
> I get the impression its just another scam industry set up to rinse trust-fund hippies and naive, damaged people (like me).
If you want, you can buy the ingredients online yourself (be they psychotria viridis and b. caapi, or syrian rue and mimosa hostilis root bark, equivalent ingredients which still work and are legal depending on your country, etc)

>Ultimately, I see it as an escape from reality and whichever way I try and spin it, I would be looking for a panacea for life's problems which I know that NO plant or substance can provide.
That's the point, yes, the plants don't give you answers, they show you how to find them for yourself. It really works well for some people who need a wakeup call.

>How does one readapt to every day life having taken the plant and what would you say is the risk/reward ratio for a very neurotic person.
Readaptation isn't an issue unless you experience a psychotic breakdown which is definitely a risk. Other than that you will just feel funny for a few days afterward, and look at things from a new perspective for many months.
Neuroticism and anxiety are big red flags. You really don't want to set yourself up for a damaging experience (IE freakout or bad trip). This can and sometimes does have lasting negative effects such as depersonalization (if this happens, just stay sober and try to live well.)

For you, having never experienced /psy/ before and describing yourself as an anxious and neurotic person, I would advise caution trying to approach these drugs. But if you do, I recommend going to a real retreat, because the guided nature of the ceremony, SLAYER, other people like you looking for answers, and the presence of a (hopefully skilled) shaman will make a world of difference.
>>
Oliver Govingwell - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:32:09 EST ID:Iyfrbm6f No.881261 Ignore Report Quick Reply
If you're trying to escape your problems ayahuasca wont help you. A proper dose will force you to face your deepest fears, you will experience death and see your whole life flash before your eyes before it all gets ripped away and you become the void.

You will realize that you are wrong in MANY ways about how you perceive the world, you will feel like nothing and everything at the same time.

And then when it wears off you'll likely fall right back into your old habits unless you stay mindful and practice meditation and other methods of self improvement. Also do something creative so you can integrate properly.

Unfortunately, unless you accept that most if not all of your problems are really a construct of your mind you will not get the realest benefits from ayahuasca and may possibly go psychotic trying to hold on to what you thought was real. This is the hard part for most people
>>
Samuel Gindlehure - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:36:38 EST ID:4m5E8+p1 No.881262 Ignore Report Quick Reply
There is a growing body of research about the use of psychedelics in treating depression. I'm not saying you're depressed, but with my limited knowledge of psychology and psychiatry i still think some of it is applicable for you.

The subjects tended to have fewer bad experiences when they started with low dosages. Maybe it would be a good idea for you too familiaize yourself with psychedelics and their effects before doing such a retreat in an unknown environlent with unknown people and an unknwon dosage. Especially if you are very neurotic as you say. I suggest you find (or cultivate) yourself some shrooms or something else. Maybe shrooms would be less scary as the trip is relatively short and their isn't too much variance in the dosage. Find a tripsitter you trust!

I read a paper from the john hoskins institute giving recommendations for other researchers on how to conduct these experiments. Contained a lot of good information on how to keep the experience (relatively) positive, constructive and safe.
They recommend to have a therapist with the subject during the trip, with whom the tripper had already established a certain bond of trust. The tripper was lying down, listening to some calm music and was instructed to focus his attention inward. The therapist was mainly there to comfort the tripper in case he got anxious or agitated. Often a gentle touch was all that was needed to calm someone down and ground them a bit.
>>
Samuel Gindlehure - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:49:31 EST ID:4m5E8+p1 No.881263 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Found the paper, here is the paper if you're interested in reading it. Not all parts would be equally usefull to you i think. But definetely worth reading.

https://www.scribd.com/document/358717725/0269881108093587?secret_password=DgNgN3q9r55PELPWAcWJ
>>
Beatrice Gipperville - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:28:27 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.881267 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>881258
Good luck trying to find an answer in ayahuasca if you can't even spell out the question you want to ask yourself.
>>
Edward Fallersid - Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:42:29 EST ID:yHUaQLLV No.881273 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>881258
>Ultimately, I see it as an escape from reality and whichever way I try and spin it, I would be looking for a panacea for life's problems which I know that NO plant or substance can provide.
You - as somebody who has never tried psychedelics - seem to have the wrong idea. Of course it won't fix your issues for you, these are tools that can help you see. Having a pair of binoculars to see what's at the top of a cliff is not the same as rock climbing.

>I have been thinking about a Peruvian Ayahuasca retreat for a while but having watched numerous videos and documentaries, I get the impression its just another scam industry set up to rinse trust-fund hippies and naive, damaged people (like me).
So you're afraid of a bit of risk? What are your other options? You could take a risk and order the materials, and brew up some Ayahuasca yourself and find someone trustworthy who can sit you, preferably a friend who is experienced with entheogens, and go for it. Or you could risk it, look up information and reviews about curanderos, and pay someone and leave it in the hands of a person who has healing people with the medicine for most of their life, it's up to you really.

You said you're neurotic, could you elaborate further on that? If you have a latent mental illness, psychedelics have the potential to bring it to the surface, but it sounds like it's already surfaced and is giving you problems.
>>
Caroline Billingshaw - Wed, 13 Sep 2017 05:22:32 EST ID:u2DgC0KC No.881292 Ignore Report Quick Reply
OP here

>>881263

Very interesting, thanks


>>881267

>Good luck trying to find an answer in ayahuasca if you can't even spell out the question you want to ask yourself.

Well obviously I would think long and hard about such things before travelling to any retreat. I'm certainly not considering this for entertainment and would want to get the most out of the experience as possible


>>881273

>You said you're neurotic, could you elaborate further on that? If you have a latent mental illness, psychedelics have the potential to bring it to the surface, but it sounds like it's already surfaced and is giving you problems.

Neurotic meaning that in personality tests I score a 98/99 out of 100 in terms of Neurotic traits. I am a worrier and emotionally reactive. However, I believe one of the upsides to this is that I am extremely comfortable with introspection and confronting inner problems and I am used to feeling negative emotions so I hoped this may stand me in good stead for an intense Ayahuasca trip
>>
Henry Heggleham - Wed, 13 Sep 2017 05:36:30 EST ID:ICOuoax0 No.881293 Ignore Report Quick Reply
a psy experience isnt going to anything but highlight the problems you have in your life. If you already know whats wrong then only thing that will change your life is hard work. It MIGHT give you a fleeting sense of motivation, but long term you have to put in the work just like everyone else, psys arent a cheat code.
>>
Edward Fallersid - Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:12:14 EST ID:yHUaQLLV No.881296 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>881293
>psys arent a cheat code.
They honestly are like using cheats if you take them before writing an important presentation or essay.
>>
Cornelius Buzzman - Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:44:40 EST ID:GI2f19Ii No.881330 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>881261
Okay fam you seem to know your stuff. What does "face your deepest fears" mean? Like, have them occur right in front of you? Are you supposed to think of a solution to them, or what? How does one handle such a thing and not go insane, as you put it? (I actually don't know, I usually just avoid things that I don't like). The death part and accepting the loss of self doesn't seem scary but the interim does.
>>
Oliver Nizzlechirk - Thu, 14 Sep 2017 12:26:23 EST ID:Iyfrbm6f No.881332 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>881330
Basically you may see horrifying things manifested before you, and understand the deepest depths of human hatred and atrocity, but you wont remember the worst parts. You basically have to grit your teeth and accept the beatdown from the universe with gratitude. You will also understand the highest highs however, feel the most shining unconditional love and empathy for everyone and everything around you, and see into forever basically.

If you just let go and relax into the experience everything will be fine, the psychosis happens when you dont want to accept certain aspects about human nature. Like we all have the capacity to hurt the people around us deeply, if we pretend that we're solely motivated by good intentions all the time then cognitive dissonance sets in, we become delusional and everyone around us can see through our bullshit.

And you will come back afterward, you'll never be "permafried" from one experience. You just need to accept the things you feel and experience without judgment. Dont overthink it. Dont try to escape pain or suffering or "avoid things you dont like" (it seems completely counterintuitive to our survival wiring but facing fear head on is actually very helpful for developing as a person)
>>
Henry Pollerdock - Sun, 17 Sep 2017 10:14:05 EST ID:HyV6PMMY No.881412 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It's ultimately up to you. You're not wrong about ayahuasca cults either. There's a lot of people out there that use it to manipulate people and get them to keep coming back for their money. There's even numerous cases of abuse linked to corrupt shamans. I believe it's a very powerful medicine and personally it helped me a lot with PTSD. However, as you said, most aya drinkers are conceited "spiritualists" that are full of shit.

If you do go to a retreat, be VERY careful about who you choose. There are lots of cults out there and I was in one myself. It's really hard to get out. It's like losing a family that claims to love you dearly but is extremely manipulative and isn't supportive of your decisions. I still get harassed by members of the cult that I was in for speaking out about the molestation and other abuse I experienced on behalf of the group.

Honestly, I'd recommend just doing mushrooms with a friend or two and see how that goes. Ayahuasca is awesome and all, but it's no instant solution to your problems...


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