420chan now has a web-based IRC client available, right here
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the float Name#Password
Comment
[*]Italic Text[/*]
[**]Bold Text[/**]
[~]Taimapedia Article[/~]
[%]Spoiler Text[/%]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace text[/pre]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Community Updates

420chan now supports HTTPS! If you find any issues, you may report them in this thread
How to live a meaningful life when you don't matter by Albert Mattingsatch - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:17:47 EST ID:WVjY5Vb6 No.521448 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1515885467762.jpg -(19758B / 19.29KB, 480x515) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 19758
So, before I get the stupid optimistic, "you matter", "aww don't say that..."

Some people are designed to die alone. And some people truly don't matter at all. Remember all the people who've died in the dark ages? Remember all the people who have died in prehistoric times?

How about this, do you feel remorse for those who died nameless with no justice? Do you remember anything they have done?

What's the difference between a tombstone and a dumpster? If nobody cares about you, it's irrelevant. Happiness is subjective and irrelevant. Only afforded to a select few.

I still want meaning. But nobody wants me around, so volunteer work is out of the question (I've tried endlessly).

What can I do? I'd rather life be a little more than a grey, meaningless blur.
>>
Lillian Blackstock - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:41:33 EST ID:h/1sxUpj No.521451 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521448
The easiest way not to die alone is to strap on a bomb vest.
I'm joking, inb4 permabanne by spunky
>>
Doris Nengerbadging - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 21:38:13 EST ID:7IGW3+Ip No.521454 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521451

BUT WHAT IF SOMEONE WITH MENTAL PROBLEMS READ THAT AND REALLY BOMBED SOMEONE.
>>
Charlotte Babblefutch - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 21:52:00 EST ID:2cRqUGEL No.521457 Ignore Report Quick Reply
When you're dead almost none of the population will remember or know you've even existed. Life is utterly meaningless and nothing you do will impact anyone in any wide variety unless you become a celebrity or a well renowned scientist. You can choose to see this as "grey", and believe you're a subject of fate and circumstance, or you can add colour into your own life.
You have to work at it. Every fucking day. It really sucks and there will always be points where you feel like giving up, but it's necessary - at the very least to bring some variety into your life.

This is the most generic advice in the world, but exercise and a healthy diet is fantastic for this kind of thing. Doesn't have to be "go to gym, get buff" etc, but just a 15 minute work out every day can help. Learning to cook, and learning to cook well is a great hobby and a skill that will serve you all the way into old age.

Being tired from working out is better than being depressed. Being tired from working out AND from being depressed is better than just being tired from being depressed, because you can at least feel like you've achieved something.

idk, at a core level I think humans need fucking distractions from our own minds. Anything to tire your body or mind (in positive ways) helps.

After all, if you die alone, with no one to remember you and no partner to love you, why the fuck should you make yourself waste your life sitting about doing nothing? If it won't affect anyone, why should you NOT do things that make you happy?There is no greater meaning, no greater purpose, it will not fall into your lap or be told by someone on the internet, it's something you decide for yourself.

You can sit about miserable as sin, or you can work towards bettering yourself, not for anyone else in the world, but for you, and you alone.
>>
Reuben Neffingfuck - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 22:52:03 EST ID:WVjY5Vb6 No.521460 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521457
But me doesn't matter. What's the point in how I feel? I've worked hard all my life. And I want to continue working on me. But it's irrelevant.

I'd be pleased with serving my purpose of helping others to not become me. But college, military, etc. doesn't mean shit. I don't deserve to live, I know that. Every day I exist, Rob's others of resources and oxygen.

I'm not suicidal, I've just learned to stop pretending like I deserve anything, even simple luxuries. If I don't deserve to live, I don't matter. And there is no point in worrying about how trash feels, it belongs in the burn pit with all the other shit. So at best, I can do w/e possible to make sure relevant people don't become trash like me.

But nobody wants, or even needs my help. No matter what I do, I am irreperably damaged both physically and mentally. I just need to find a way to serve a purpose, other than robbing others of existence.
>>
Reuben Godgehall - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:20:08 EST ID:/pl3Lein No.521461 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Aww don't say that... You matter <3<3<3
>>
Priscilla Bossleway - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 00:17:04 EST ID:cG0vV5OZ No.521462 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1515907024893.jpg -(27396B / 26.75KB, 480x270) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>521448
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0h50v7UNJc
>>
Priscilla Bossleway - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:44:48 EST ID:cG0vV5OZ No.521463 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1515912288893.jpg -(26470B / 25.85KB, 347x460) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>521460
>it belongs in the burn pit with all the other shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhDVczN4hVQ
>>
Graham Cisslesun - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 04:02:26 EST ID:9cRQ1bGM No.521464 Ignore Report Quick Reply
All things will come to an end, but the fact we are alive allows us to find value in the world by interacting with it. With the knowledge nothing we will ever do matters in a physical historical manner, we are free to live as an act of aesthetic or spiritual manner and in pursuit of whatever we see fit.

I have come to a personal conclusion that little projects that are useful for a specific purpose for the scope of my lifetime, and a personal (somewhat unfounded) belief in a transmigration of spirits is enough to keep me content in my work in this life. Not here for fun or historical significance, but to tend to a "garden" of my choosing.
>>
Augustus Hubberham - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 05:29:42 EST ID:YeKAEOKH No.521467 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521448
Nothing matters. This means there's no higher power that can say anything you choose to live is up to you. Everything is subjective and irrelevant. The experience of existence is unique to you. You get to decide what matters to your existence as you will be the closest thing to god, compiling your reality based on limited sensory inputs, knowing your thoughts and perspective and what you genuinely though as well as what you experienced. Decide on what matters to you based on your values, your experiences and a realistic frame/scope. Nihilists will tell you that you are wrong, they might be right. But if they are it doesn't matter that you are wrong and you are still happy. Nothing matters, there is no plan and no intrinsic value, we are not supposed to exist, we are just an accident where the universe started questioning it's own existence. Everything from mass coalescing to form stars down to this post is something that wasn't "supposed" to happen but has.

I don't remember a lot of people but human society has grown based on being a collective, not individuals. Even the guys at the top can be replaced by someone who can do the job almost as well, or would have had the same idea a little bit slower.

Also bear in mind that everyone is about as valid as you. Some people are worse than you, a lot of very rich people have a net negative effect on the total wellbeing of the world that dwarfs yours. For example marketers who help guide consumers into making the wrong purchasing decision, media who mislead voters about what parties stand for, churches who have pedophile insurance but no specific purges, cults, a good number of national leaders including several democratically elected ones. You can still turn it around.

Happiness is something a lot of people get though, it's not a select few. It's not about being elite and meeting high standards it's about agency dignity and empowerment even if it's on a tiny scale. You lack the feeling of these things but most people don't. Some peasant in dark ages whatever still got to grow their crops, feel what they did make a difference and if they did it well it mattered and they got to find company and so on.

You probably need to break this large insurmountable problem down into little ones though and those down into things you can do.

I think there's issues with the way you're dealing with people if no one wants you around and you can't work or volunteer. You're not illiterate so you're not too stupid to do some jobs. But that's not something your post has focused on.
>>
James Bennerhall - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 06:47:40 EST ID:I3Iy9lXv No.521472 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521448
there is volunteer work that doesn't involve social interaction, have you got a useful skill you could do for them? Design a website, book-keep, translate, etc.? Maybe get one?

Engagement is a substitute for meaning, find something that allows you to feel "flow".. music, art, writing, dancing, whatever it is doesn't matter, doesn't matter if you are good at it at all, just get deep into something. engagement feels like meaning.
>>
Sophie Goodhall - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 08:33:20 EST ID:TUgPV7Lr No.521480 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well, in terms of things I could do. I have a lot of combatives training from the military (teach self-defense?), and I have a Master's in computer science, and an associate for pharmacy tech. So I'd like to say I'm well rounded in terms of a skill set. I guess it's hard for me to see relevance in myself given how utterly alone I am. I just want people around me to be happy. I see people suffer, and I want to cry. I can't take it when others experience pain. I know it's awful, and I never want others to go through it. But I can't do anything about it and it drives me crazy, only with a wall to hear how I feel.
And I can philosophically justify my combat experiences in the military. But black and white, I've contributed to a lot of pain and suffering myself, to those who've cared about the enemy combatants I've killed.

I suppose that's why it is hard for me to justify deserving life despite all the shitty people in the world. I dunno

Thank you guys. I am feeling a bit better and getting some motivation from this. I just don't have a plan I guess, and that scares me.
>>
Graham Cisslesun - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 08:56:10 EST ID:9cRQ1bGM No.521483 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1515938170310.gif -(153249B / 149.66KB, 499x682) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>521480
suffering is intrinsic to embodied existence. Neither you nor I have any way to end suffering of others, and while we can abstain from clearly harmful action, we cannot guarantee that others will not suffer. Even people born into complete material excess suffer in the mind from precieved lack they invent for themselves.

I believe the only thing we can do on an ethical level is to abstain from clearly harmful action and continue the whatever duties that our society needs us to perform to ensure people can pursue knowledge. Empathy is good as is compassion but you have to not torture yourself over the fate of others.
>>
James Bennerhall - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 10:03:46 EST ID:I3Iy9lXv No.521485 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521483
If he thinks minimising or alleviating some of the pain of others might reduce his own pain or give him a sense of meaning then that is a good thing. If no one had this attitude we wouldn't have counsellors or nurses etc. But it is true that if you can somehow get your sense of value from an internal source that isn't contingent on anything it will be more stable.

I'd rather be unstable and do good than be stable and just, I don't know, live in a pretty place and meditate all day and help no one. But that's me, I am happy for that person who finds happiness in their pretty place and doesn't hurt anyone, I think that's a great way to live too.


OK, OP, I wanna challenge that idea you have that if you try to volunteer people won't be able to stand being around you. I bet that's not true, I bet most people would be completely indifferent to your presence, and some people would even like having you around!
>>
Augustus Hubberham - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 10:59:53 EST ID:YeKAEOKH No.521486 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521485
>I'd rather be unstable and do good than be stable and just, I don't know, live in a pretty place and meditate all day and help no one
I think realistically the ideal is knowing you can rely on the self value alone but rarely doing so. You cannot have an excess of satisfaction with your existence, at least not if the excess is from doing genuine good. More satisfaction just means a better world for everyone. But needing that is dangerous because sometimes you're powerless. Sometimes you need a help up. Sometimes you fuck up or your plans don't work out despite being the most sensible logical choice at the time.
>>
Dextrolord - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:21:31 EST ID:xmLJIsps No.521493 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521448
>I'd rather life be a little more than grey

Have u tried all the drugs yet? Unless your brain is super fucked, I can promise one will do that for ya

I have to drink stupid amounts but it keeps me happy while I wait for my damn kratom in the mail(gave up dope a while ago).
>>
Albert Lightstone - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:19:57 EST ID:YeKAEOKH No.521512 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521493
I'm of the opinion that taking substances to deal with misery is a high risk path to addiction. Drug addiction isn't guaranteed if you take most substances but if you have the mentality of "I must fill a hole" you're more likely to get addicted to just about anything, and you're also more likely to take a high risk drug.

I mean you currently take one of the nastiest substances going while you wait for your anti withdrawal medicine for one of the few more dangerous ones. You aren't on benzos yet and you're using opiates better not worse so I suspect you won't get desomorphine so you're past the worst. But what fucking life is that?

OP is having an existential crisis, he should resolve it, not run from it. Once he's solved it experimenting with drugs is a fun way to spend some time or practice experiencing new perspectives though.
>>
Phineas Piffingham - Tue, 16 Jan 2018 02:28:41 EST ID:yUhAjzvV No.521534 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Why exactly is mattering something you naturally feel is a requirement for living your life meaningfully? I can see where the two states of being are likely to intersect at some point... even have some synergy or symbiosis together. But, I'm not getting where you're coming from by implying that either one is necessarily contingent upon the other to be possible.


What a meaningful life is and what it entails is a decision and a belief you personally construct. Mattering, either to some institution, entity, other people, other forms of life, or what have you is set of shared beliefs between all parties involved (or at least beliefs that interact with and influence each other). Ultimately you're limiting factor when it comes to deciding whether or not something (including yourself) matters or not.



Values, interests, beliefs, and perceptions all being relative to one another as a fact does not invalidate them in and of itself whatsoever. I'm honestly confused where it is that so many people wind up coming to the conclusion that everything is without point and nothing has meaning. Or rather, I can see choosing to come to that conclusion, but not as a result following as the logical consequence of everything's relativistic nature.



It's as if the true realization and understanding of its relativity and how deeply it shatters people's previous belief systems, faith, and convictions causes people to preemptively come to the conclusion that, in reality, nothing actually matters or could ever have meaning. Truthfully though, such statements could never apply to any kind of all-encompassing, unbiased observer, because none such exists or can exist. The truth isn't that nothing has meaning and doesn't matter, but that things could only ever have meaning or matter to consciously aware beings capable of mentally constructing a model of the reality they inhabit--the function of which hinges on differentiating objects and concepts in the world, which necessarily as a consequence establishes hierarchies and structural constructs to sort these into (not to mention their survival as beings mandates behaviors to sustain their existence, thus placing various values on nutrients and resources).



The fact that another individual or being does not share the same sets of values that you do doesn't magically negate the meaning and value of those things for either of you. Maybe the sudden awareness of the responsibility that's been in place on the individual for determining for themselves exactly what they believe and believe in unconsciously terrifies people (not to mention that every other individual beside them has this same power, task, and responsibility too and choose to do things that are terrible in your eyes, personally) into choosing to believe that nothing actually matters or has meaning. Easier to abandon any personal accountability or hold others accountable either because of the immense burden the cognitive dissonance of reestablishing those values and beliefs will inevitably cause when having to face other human beings and what happens in life in general causes you to go through the same traumatic, deep belief system shattering and the psychological and emotional spiral downwards it could potentially cause all over again.
>>
Phineas Piffingham - Tue, 16 Jan 2018 02:52:12 EST ID:yUhAjzvV No.521535 Ignore Report Quick Reply
----------PART 2||Answering your question--------------

As far as how to go about living a meaningful life, it's important not to forget what exactly it is that we are, as human beings. We're animals... we have basic drives, instincts, we have rather complex social interactions driven by these, along with desires, hopes, and dreams driven by them as well. No matter how much we consciously believe these things to be of little to no value, to not matter, or have no meaning, we cannot escape that these things all arise as consequence of our functioning a living and conscious, aware, intelligent/sapient beings. Literally the structure of our nervous system has been molded and developed through the course of time and our evolution such that it causes these things.

Look at structure of our societies and how they were run during the course of our history as a species. No matter how archaic or backwards a lot of it may seem, the fact that that's how life was for so long for us as animals and the fact that it worked in terms of our survival, how ingrained it all is in our unconscious is undeniable.

To live a life of meaning, you have to embrace the fact that there is suffering inherent in existence as a living being and accept that without resentment or bitterness, and you need to take on more responsibility in your life. Mature and become an adult in all the cliche and again, sometimes rather archaic seeming ways you've always been told to in life. Take care of yourself and your affairs and become good enough at it that it could even be feasible for you to actually take on taking care of somebody else and there affairs, whether or not you have kids. Be a good person who at least always tries to tell the truth and who avoids to the best of their ability to add any additional suffering to the suffering already present in the world and help others out. Learn to trust people even though most of them likely don't deserve it and might hurt you as a result of it.

In the end, you don't actually need to matter at all to feel like your life has meaning or to like yourself as a person. Mattering winds up coming as a matter of course if you do all of those things I said and is just the icing on the cake. You aren't owed being valued by others, you need to earn and should want to earn that by your actions and interactions with them. The people that you will matter to (and vice versa, for that matter) will come and go, and you will probably wind up all the way back at square 1 again with no one or nothing that you matter to, but you've already been there and conduct yourself in such a way in how you go through life that, as long as you open yourself up to others and try again, you will matter to others once again. Honestly, knowing the kind of person you are, even in spite of how bad you could be and other people are, is enough to feel a sense of fullfilment and meaning in your life.
>>
Hannah Novingville - Tue, 16 Jan 2018 03:47:06 EST ID:cG0vV5OZ No.521536 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1516092426683.png -(104031B / 101.59KB, 297x217) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>521534
>>521535
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd11cRuljMk
>>
Dextrolord - Wed, 17 Jan 2018 04:05:19 EST ID:xmLJIsps No.521553 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>521512
I got clean off benzos recently too. I used to be way depressed and anxious all the time and it really interfered with my life. Now I've found the right medicine for daily use, kratom, and what drugs I like for fun.

I know that the classic view is life shouldn't revolve around getting high and stuff but I'm way happier now, and even in my darkest opiate days, than I was sober and suicidal.


Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.