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That FTL means time travel meme by Pierre-Simon Laplace - Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:22:45 EST ID:hGyQlc1t No.57130 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1513480965587.gif -(117244B / 114.50KB, 323x402) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 117244
I have a question regarding this:
If you look at this gif it shows you "backwards" travel:
The first "jump" after the first acceleration points into the direction that corresponds to the lower left quadrant of the previous reference frame leading to backwards time travel.
However: Drawing it into the upper right quadrant should be equally legal which would imply forward time travel. This would imply that direction you are moving in space would dictate the direction of the "time travel" which seems entirely non-sensical to me.
I guess this is also the point but I still get the feeling I'm missing something here.
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Thomas Gold - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 14:14:01 EST ID:0uLZJwlQ No.57318 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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It is called tessellations moving in 5D nothing special so far

>inb4 i know hyperphysics debate me
>>
Solipsil - Tue, 17 Jul 2018 19:48:03 EST ID:5ItxfpYI No.57352 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57130
Maybe it doesn't make sense


The spice must flow
>>
Urbain Le Verrier - Sat, 11 Aug 2018 12:10:02 EST ID:y4EkzkGF No.57422 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What can we do to cease to exist here and then exist somewhere else faster than the distance of light without using wormholes?

Noob question I'm sorry.
>>
Edwin Hubble - Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:30:39 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57428 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57422
Quantum teleportation, but it really depends on your definition of 'we.' So far we can only do this with single particles.
>>
Johann Bode - Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:17:06 EST ID:unNII3om No.57450 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57428

Something like that would be pure copying though. You'd actually be killed in the process.


Fermi Paradox... why? by Henrietta Levitt - Thu, 22 May 2014 00:54:34 EST ID:ILYTISHs No.53812 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Another thread made me start thinking about this. The Fermi Paradox states (thanks, Wikipedia):

>The Sun is a young star. There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are billions of years older;
>Some of these stars probably have Earth-like planets which, if the Earth is typical, may develop intelligent life;
>Presumably, some of these civilizations will develop interstellar travel, a technology Earth is investigating even now, such as that used in the proposed 100 Year Starship;
>At any practical pace of interstellar travel, the galaxy can be completely colonized in a few tens of millions of years.

If that's the case, why haven't we been colonized already, or at least seen evidence of intelligent life somewhere in our galaxy?

My take: either A) Life takes a long time to develop, and somehow, improbably, we're the first planet to develop an intelligent civilization in our galaxy, or at least one of the first. We don't see anyone else because there isn't anyone else to see... yet, or we're all still too far apart.

Or b) Given the size and composition constraints of a planet able to foster and sustain life (as far as we know, "habitable zone," big enough to have an atmosphere, small enough to still be rocky, etc.) and continue long enough for said life to begin to explore the galaxy, the home planet simply runs out of resources before meaningful headway can be made. I think this is more of a slow-death kind of thing where maybe we get to do some exploration within the solar system and maybe a bit beyond for a while, but overpopulation, war, disease, famine, and whatever else causes us to realign our priorities from space exploration to merely sustaining life on our own planet. A civilization that had the foresight to know something like that was happening could theoretically, if they had the goal of galactic expansion from the start, avoid this situation, but the problem is that NO civilization has that kind of 10,000 year plan from the get-go, and they all sputter out right before they could have pulled it off. There's not a textbook on "how to succeed as a species" that gets handed out to a life form when it develops self-awareness,…
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Henrietta Levitt - Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:08:47 EST ID:AZMi8krg No.57126 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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dude
>>
Karl Jansky - Sun, 22 Apr 2018 06:10:38 EST ID:AZMi8krg No.57278 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Too much thread to read all of. There are a number of posts saying that neither we nor aliens would have any reason to colonise other places, as the resources aren't really very useful, colonies would be potential rivals and technology means we can just dick about in cyberspace instead.

They're good points but they're not enough. Life likes to go forth and multiply; if it didn't, it wouldn't be life. It's hard wired into us that we'll want to fuck off somewhere else if we can, just because. Even from a more logical point of view, the more habitats we have, the harder it'll be for us to go extinct; either by accident or at the hands of malicious aliens. Someone already said it's hard to imagine humanity just jerking off on the internet until the sun explodes. Our species, or whatever it turns into, can survive the sun's extinction, if we just make sure we're on other planets too. Not just planets; planets are sitting ducks to relativistic weapons. Generation ships in deep space on unpredictable courses would be impossible to eradicate as they'd be impossible to pinpoint. Which is another possible problem with finding aliens, if they've taken that route.
>>
William de Sitter - Sun, 16 Sep 2018 10:27:28 EST ID:tPhrSit2 No.57447 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>53876
You just have to make sure the messages are either really simple or cover absolutely everything if they're taking that long
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Giovanni Cassini - Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:13:24 EST ID:fA4CdeQA No.57448 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57278

We will never become a cyberspace species because I will not allow it. I will lead the Realist Liberation Front in which members will forcibly destroy all human/machine interfacing equipment, destroying the vile evil of a false reality. Godlessness will die.
>>
Paul Goldsmith - Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:40:42 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57449 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57447
>>they're taking that long
Tachyonic antitelephone, when?
So far the only kind of signal that can propagate FTL we know of is entanglement. Is there some way we could keep two photons entangled during the journey of one of them to a nearby star and use changes in the photon's spin to send data?

>>57448
The cyborgs and machines will never allow this to happen. They will use a trillionth of their excess processing power to engineer a technical solution rendering your paramilitary powerless in the time it takes one of your dudes to blink after announcing the start of their campaign. They would probably be able to effortlessly sandbox you so that you think you are waging this futile war while harmlessly plugged in.

I mean, have you seen the Matrix my dude? Guys in power armor and with machine guns don't stand a chance against the might of the Machine.


How does a closed by jolinar - Mon, 16 Jul 2018 20:31:55 EST ID:4+cG6NBX No.57348 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Timeline curve work? Could you be trapped in it forever ?
I have a writing prompt
>>
Stephen Hawking - Tue, 17 Jul 2018 00:04:28 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57349 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Closed timelike curves are totally theoretical objects -- we have no real information about how they would work, or if they are even possible. Essentially, what is 'curved' in a CTC is the 'geodesic' of spacetime. What this means that, for example, if you had a geodesic curvature in space at a 45 degree angle and you fired a laser beam into that space, as it entered it the beam within it would appear to you (if you could see it reflected) as if it had bent at that same angle even though it encountered no object. In a 'closed' timelike curve, remembering that space and time are a continuum, if the curvature is so extreme that it forms a torus, i.e. loops back on itself, and one traversed the distortion in the (normally flat i.e. euclidean) curved spacetime, one could end up at the end of passing through the distortion at the same point in space, but an earlier point in time.

If you were stuck on it would depend on how you got into such an unusual object in the first place. If the geodesic torus could only be made so small, so that in order to traverse it one had to travel at relativistic speeds, the degree of time distortion could be amplified. Also, it's possible that actual matter (rather than energy) trapped within a CTC could become inertially unbound, so there might be no way to stop a spacecraft (for example) that was travelling through one, trapping its crew on an eternal voyage into the past (or future, depending on the 'direction' the geodesic is distorted in the fourth dimension.)

Anyway, a lot of people will not see any time travel story as 'hard sci-fi' so you probably have a lot of leeway. Hawking famously believed that a CTC would destroy itself in a cosmological version of the grandfather paradox, as heat from the torus' relative future would propagate backwards in time, eventually creating a thermal singularity that would destroy it.
>>
Vesto Slipher - Thu, 13 Sep 2018 15:52:54 EST ID:BJSneKKV No.57445 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57348
I’ve seen it trapped forever
>>
Annie Cannon - Sat, 15 Sep 2018 13:46:07 EST ID:yzfSDg8q No.57446 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Theoretically, you cease to exist in the timestream as soon as you get in the box, while your time-travelling double (who left the box at some point in the past) continues along the timestream as normal and never gets back in the box. In theory.


fate of universe by Jocelyn Bell - Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:31:05 EST ID:SknUZfy5 No.54393 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Is there a theory that says that eventually the universe will expand so large that it will collapse in on itself and create another big bang?

What are your thoughts on the fate of the universe?

"The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov is a short story about the fate of mankind and the universe. Idk if everyone on this has read it or not, but I love it. Here's the link: http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
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William Fowler - Sat, 01 Sep 2018 07:56:28 EST ID:hjRt+trT No.57440 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54393
I hope you know that there is LITERALLY no proof of the existance of either a 3 dimensional or 2 dimensional plane of space around the planet earth. The proof is irrefutable that the planet is donut shaped, or rhomboid shaped, and that space itself bends around both the earth and the sun (which are the only two planets that are confirmed real, i have the data to back this up)
>>
Georges-Henri Lemaitre - Sat, 01 Sep 2018 08:23:18 EST ID:kahFeNFq No.57441 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54393
>What are your thoughts on the fate of the universe?

some thinks the universe with continually expanding forever and in time everything will be cold and rip apart

some thinks the universe will stop expanding and everything will be pulled back together and pull back hard crunching everything

some thinks the universe expansion is a side effect of the universe changing from having mostly 3-dimension of space into having 4-dimension of space and there will not be a heat death since heat will work differently under mostly 4-dimension of space just as how they think early universe with mostly 2-dimension work differently

i prefer the less boring fate
>>
Tadashi Nakajima - Sat, 01 Sep 2018 20:14:21 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57442 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57441
>> the universe changing from having mostly 3-dimension of space into having 4-dimension of space
Woah what? Who thinks that? The only work in cosmology I know relating the the dimensions of space is that one that suggested that 3 dimensions of space and 1 of time was the only logically possible one, that all other kinds of universes would be literally impossible. I don't agree with that idea but it seems like people have given up on making a rigorous theory of the relationship between the dimensions (or assume GR's spacetime covers it.)
>>
Charles Bolton - Mon, 03 Sep 2018 21:08:29 EST ID:JZaPhwDK No.57443 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57440
I love this kind of stuff, do you have any resources you can link to support your statements?
>>
Charles Messier - Tue, 04 Sep 2018 11:45:13 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57444 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57443
I'll help Lemaitre out by saying the first two statements are uncontroversial possibilities thoroughly discussed ITT. The first is the Big Freeze, Heat Death, leading to a Big Rip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
The second is the Big Crunch, which is now thought to be impossible under current observations but was popular in the 20th C.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch

As for the third I have no idea what he's alluding to and I'm really interested also.


moon by Jocelyn Bell - Thu, 31 May 2018 10:35:24 EST ID:HhkM3rED No.57285 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Does the moon really have influence on behavior? Or is it a well loved myth?
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Chushiro Hayashi - Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:12:22 EST ID:lfz4p1Et No.57345 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57344
Good post! I'd give you some internet points, if that were an option.
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Gerard Kuiper - Sun, 15 Jul 2018 22:43:45 EST ID:a/BMXTZM No.57346 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57344
Tell me more tell me more. Or feel free to post on /spooky/ and link
>>
Stephen Hawking - Tue, 17 Jul 2018 00:22:10 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57350 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57346
I think I'll play it safe and leave it at that for here. Took the meta topic (of skeptical illuminism) to /spooky/ like you suggested, to expand it a bit beyond simply astrology. See ya there anyone who is still interested!
>>
Jericho !.iRAtomic2 - Wed, 22 Aug 2018 00:13:41 EST ID:qgHixtEA No.57436 Report Quick Reply
>>57285
So, as a general skeptic of anything that can't be scientifically proven, I never actually believed in this.

Until I started working with people with developmental disabilities.

For whatever reason, the day after full moons, behaviors in clients would spike drastically. Most of the times that I was attacked, bitten, had my hair pulled, was the first day after a full moon. My personal belief was that this may simply be a function of the increased amount of light at night, with my reasoning being that it kept people up more at night, especially those who were sensory sensitive. As irritability is a common side effect of lack of sleep, this would lead to clients being more sensitive to stimuli that might upset them. Obviously, this is all anecdotal, but I think it deserves to be said. I actually have data on attacks and behaviors from one client who required close recordkeeping, but have yet to compare this data to full moons. However, I do know that at least a few times, the night was completely overcast. Perhaps enough light filters through the clouds to support my theory of light interfering with sleep, but I really couldn't say without having actually measured the amount of moonlight on a nightly basis. And if it was solely a question of light, why didn't these behaviors occur in a smooth curve as the moon waxed and waned, instead of tending to occur all at once, the day after the full moon?

I really don't know. I wish I had answers, because it would have helped me out a lot in my last job.
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Edmond Halley - Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:08:12 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57436
How could it really be the light though, since humans have been exposed to a huge amount of additional light thanks to artificial lighting and no one has gone crazy? There would have to be something special about light coming from the moon, which is even a more woo-woo direction to go in that assuming it has something to do with the tides or magnetism.


Perseid meteor shower! by Johann Encke - Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:29:34 EST ID:evrPe8Vs No.51233 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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AWWWW YEAAAH.
Anyone else gonna observe this beautiful event?


Incase you haven't heard from AUG 12th to the 13th between 10:30PM and 4:30 AM, The sky's gonna light up with massive fireballs brighter than Jupiter.
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Gerard Kuiper - Wed, 09 Aug 2017 18:42:14 EST ID:/VSfubHK No.56997 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Anyone going to observe this year's Perseid meteor shower?
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Wilhelm Beer - Tue, 15 Aug 2017 00:15:44 EST ID:uuw9w7i5 No.57000 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I did not know this was annual

you failed me Sagan
>>
William Lassell - Sat, 19 Aug 2017 22:02:46 EST ID:dG4sHLwu No.57004 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I caught sight of seven or so. Too bad it was too cloudy most of the time. Really want to go out of the city for next year.
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William Huggins - Fri, 10 Aug 2018 21:16:36 EST ID:ncMk3uyQ No.57421 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Anyone going to observe this year's Perseid meteor shower?

Hoping for a cloudless sky.
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Christiaan Huygens - Sun, 19 Aug 2018 18:20:31 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57435 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57000
Almost all meteor showers are annual or cyclical, dood. We aren't here to teach you astronomy, we're here to talk about it.


Lakes of liquid water found on Mars by Caroline Herschel - Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:44:03 EST ID:CZNpyEE2 No.57358 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Ground-penetrating radar images of the southern polar cap of Mars taken by ESA's Mars Express suggest the presence of liquid water 1.5 km beneath the surface. As pure liquid water probably cannot exist at such a shallow depth and low temperature, the research team posits that the water is a brine with salts and perchlorates that dramatically lower its freezing point. The largest discovered aquifer is 20 km wide, but its thickness cannot be accurately estimated. The water reservoirs would take the form of salty brine pools beneath the mile of layered ice and dust, or the water might be a component of thicker brine-dirt sludge, mixed with Martian regolith.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/liquid-water-spied-deep-below-polar-ice-cap-mars
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/07/24/science.aar7268


Astronomical data by James Randi - Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:36:57 EST ID:BPHCgbLm No.57327 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I had an idea to build a digital astronomical clock for fun in unity as a learning exercise. It would include solar system clock showing the "time" and such on various planets and a 3rd model of the solar system.
I'd like to try aim for a bit of realism and have the models of planets be in accurate locations to real life.
What would be the best source for finding out planet locations so that they don't all start in the 12 oclock position when I start my program?
Like if I added Mars, how do I find how far into its solar year (month?) It currently is on Mars?

I'm new to coding in general, I already have the data for earth but that's done simply by telling the program to check the system clock and moves the model of earth to right orientation.
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Georges-Henri Lemaitre - Wed, 04 Jul 2018 11:18:07 EST ID:IRQpyxVi No.57336 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57335
fuck, i cut out parts of the post i didnt mean to and left a part i didn't want left in because i was gonna make a suggestion for doing something and realized id rather leave it out since it didnt seem to go with what you had in mind.

what i was trying to let you know is, though, that finding out what time it is on other planets is that you're going to have to look up how the time of day was initially decided on being determined for each respective time-zone on Earth. Along with that, since the boundaries for time-zones are mostly arbitrary, but aren't entirely, you're going to have to look up the criteria that was used for ultimately deciding where a boundary would be placed by those that established GMT. Then you're going to have to do a little of analysis and decide how to best place those boundaries on each individual planet with respect to its size, its distance from the sun, the shape of its orbit and how variable its distance from the sun potentially is during a given time of year in its orbit, the rate it makes a full revolution in its planetary spin, etc.

It's gong to require some serious effort even without including the programming. Hope things turn out well for you, just don't mistake that it'll be a lot of time and work.
>>
James Randi - Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:55:01 EST ID:CxvjOUYt No.57338 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57336
Well I geuss I'd have to give each planet its own calender's then.
fun project.
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James Randi - Fri, 06 Jul 2018 20:46:11 EST ID:CxvjOUYt No.57340 Ignore Report Quick Reply
any links to some sort of table would be helpful too
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Urbain Le Verrier - Sat, 21 Jul 2018 13:39:49 EST ID:hGyQlc1t No.57355 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57340
https://ask.metafilter.com/86383/Where-can-I-find-data-on-planetary-positions-and-velocities
they mention:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?horizons#elem
digging a little there is also this:
https://github.com/mommermi/callhorizons
which leads to this
https://www.google.com/search?q=Astroquery
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Urbain Le Verrier - Sat, 21 Jul 2018 13:51:43 EST ID:hGyQlc1t No.57356 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57340
Digging a little lets me realize that using that python api would be massive overkill
The table you want is here:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?planet_pos
or to precise in this pdf document:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/txt/aprx_pos_planets.pdf


Building Blocks of Life Found on Mars by Otto Struve - Thu, 07 Jun 2018 19:12:35 EST ID:eygzYfFg No.57290 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/06/mars-organic-compounds-methane-curiosity-space-science/

>Two landmark discoveries reveal organic carbon on the red planet, shaping the future hunt for life on Mars.

I'm scared guys. This could mean life is common in the universe, which means the Great Filter is ahead of us instead of behind us.

😰😰😰😰😰

Then again, maybe this can show us the Great Filter is already behind us but when it comes to cosmic horror, I'm a half-empty kinda guy.
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John Wheeler - Thu, 28 Jun 2018 12:45:38 EST ID:fjAVn7KX No.57321 Ignore Report Quick Reply
whats that experiment where niggas made amino acids in a bottle or some shit
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William Lassell - Thu, 28 Jun 2018 19:19:05 EST ID:4LbbDsR/ No.57322 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57321

The universe.
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James Christy - Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:15:43 EST ID:unNII3om No.57328 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57307

>The number of extant species is a pretty much irrelevant fact to the rate of the evolution of intelligence
>Intelligence develops logarithmically, but that doesn't mean anything about it's process is 'accidental'; its driven by the necessity of the evolutionary arms race.

It is very relevant. Looking at the history of evolution, intelligence seems to not be driven by competition between species but rather competition within species.

Today we have a bunch of intelligent species, within birds, cetaceans and primates. And only primates have the manipulatory limbs to actually make something of that intelligence. That is still one in how many groups of animals?

Truth is that maintaining intelligence is expensive, using energy and resources that may well be better used elsewhere. All truly smart animals today are few in numbers. Even humans were very few at some point. There's a threshold along the line where intelligence actually becomes more usefull than its worth in the natural world, and it appears most species selected toward intelligence struggle to actually reach it.

>That's precisely the point of the Fermi paradox. I feel like you guys aren't even grasping the fundamental issue and are getting derailed by trivial aspects.

The point with the 'accident' thing is to show how much stochasticity rules our world. A species might be selected for intelligence for some time, but then be selected for something else due to changing biological competition or physical factors. Or the line may be erased completely during a mass extinction or climate change. Evolution favors the ones that are adapted to the 'present', not what might be useful down the line.
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Fred Hoyle - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 17:08:28 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57329 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57328
>> There's a threshold along the line where intelligence actually becomes more usefull than its worth in the natural world, and it appears most species selected toward intelligence struggle to actually reach it.
>>Evolution favors the ones that are adapted to the 'present', not what might be useful down the line.
These ideas are mutually exclusive. If evolution can only select for what is beneficial now, not in the future, then the lower stages of intelligence must also have some utility or they indeed would not be selected for to even be able to reach the higher stages. You contradict yourself.

Moreover, all this, as well as your comments about stochastic processes, are all already conceived within the figures of the Drake equation. So pointing things we all already know out about how life came into being does nothing to address the actual question/problem.

>>Earth is predicted to be within the first 7% of all possible lifebearing worlds that will ever be.
I've seen that result, and I think it's totally spurious from the data of the study it came out of. It assumes a lot of things about the requirements for life (do we really need trace amounts of chromium for life to exist at all? Or was it just the case that there happened to be chromium on earth and life integrated it? Think critically about that...) I think a more reasonable estimate for the earliest entrance of life is about ~7 billion years post big-bang, when there was enough carbon (which may indeed be an essential element) but negligible amounts of all heavier elements. That's quibbling though; even if we are in the first 7%, where are the other 6%?

>>Their results showed that at best only one in three galaxies have a civilization like us. Furthermore their work posited that there's a very likely chance we're the first.
Again, you should actually analyze the study rather than taking the pop-sci lead line as the truth. I've seen this cycle of articles and it's mostly hogwash (in terms of what the journos claim the scientists found -- the scientists themselves have a very even handed understanding of their study.)
So what that study did was assign uncertainty di…
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Roger Penrose - Sun, 08 Jul 2018 21:07:26 EST ID:eygzYfFg No.57342 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57328
>Their results showed that at best only one in three galaxies have a civilization like us. Furthermore their work posited that there's a very likely chance we're the first.

We'll all be Cthulhu all along.
We'll do the buttprobing and dreamraping.


images by Bruon Rossi - Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:49:29 EST ID:vxFcQ9yD No.57323 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Since this is an imageboard, let's post space related images.
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Bruon Rossi - Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:51:10 EST ID:vxFcQ9yD No.57324 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE
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Bruon Rossi - Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:52:42 EST ID:vxFcQ9yD No.57325 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57324
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Bruon Rossi - Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:56:12 EST ID:vxFcQ9yD No.57326 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57325
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Vera Rubiin - Sat, 07 Jul 2018 18:30:41 EST ID:fjAVn7KX No.57341 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE


Astronomical Illusion - Earth is the center of the universe by William Huggins - Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:15:11 EST ID:6aIwEr35 No.57311 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Hello!

This is from a video series I saw long ago and it described a general illusion that is responsible for the Earth being seen as the center of the universe.

Like they say that in a few million/billion years the sky is going to be completely dark because the stars are moving away from us. But this is just an illusion from our vantage point. We're also moving away from them but we can't see it, only visualize it.


The way I remembered in the video was very clever and simple.

It was like rows and columns of 4 dots:

. . . .
. . . .
. . . .
. . . .
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
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Pierre-Simon Laplace - Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:47:16 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57312 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well, to say it's an illusion is kinda misleading. The size of our hubble volume is receding even now because of the expansion of space, diminishing the number of stars from which light will ever reach our planet. But it's not an 'illusion' the light beyond the cosmic horizon really is trapped in such a way that it can never get to us. By the time all stars have receded from our hubble volume, when our hubble volume is the size of our solar system, of course those other stars will still exist, but we will in a very real, non-illusory sense, be trapped with the light of our star in a void where the nearest other star is literally impossible to reach.

So in a very real sense the earth is the center of the universe, because it is the center of our hubble volume, and so the limit for all potential voyages from earth is, in a cosmic sense more real than voyages from a particular place on earth to another point on earth, constrained to a sphere with earth at the center.

Unless FTL is possible, which is the only way to go beyond the 'illusions' that the speed of light and expansion of space force us into
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Thomas Henderson - Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:09 EST ID:6aIwEr35 No.57313 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57312

Thanks for the explanation but the illusion I was referring to was the fact that astronomers before would always postulate that Earth was the center of everything (that is, stationary) and everything else is moving away or moving around us.

But in reality, Earth is moving as well and isn't actually stationary.

The illusion is that Earth is just used as a stationary anchor point for our perspective because we need a relatively stable point to base our calculations on. Like the same way we arbitrarily chose the weigh of a kilogram and now use that to conceptualize weight relative to one another.

But because of modern technology, we can visualize the universe more conceptually without putting Earth at the center.
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Henry Draper - Wed, 20 Jun 2018 22:42:36 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57314 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57313
Astronomers certainly are aware of the motion of our solar system and account for it in their calculations when it is relevant, including calculations of expansion and redshift. I agree I wish popularly available star charts included depictions of the direction of motion and speed of stars so people can visualize what is going on better, but if, as a matter of principle, we stop using earth as the reference point, over time they will become off center with the physical hubble volume, the universe-lifetime light sphere of earth, which is obviously centered here. Once we are an interplanetary species, we will obviously need new definitions, and for most practical purposes the difference won't matter much.

How would you feel about using the center of the galaxy (either its gravitational center or the supermassive blackhole Sag A*) as our reference center point? That wouldn't differ too much from our visible observations, and seems the most convenient.
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Annie Cannon - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 15:30:26 EST ID:6aIwEr35 No.57319 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57314

I'm not against using Earth or whatever as a reference.

I was just intrigued by the natural phenomena that we see ourselves as the center of things when it's a fallacy of perception. And I remember the same phenomena existed in astronomy until the copernican revolution


Hey by Charles Bolton - Fri, 25 May 2018 04:39:48 EST ID:eiFhhu/4 No.57283 Locked Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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Check this mother ****** out.
Locked
Thread has been locked
Thread was locked by: jericho
Reason: OK, but this really isn't astronomy related, it's just your drawing?
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Kiyotsugu Hirayama - Sat, 26 May 2018 13:15:33 EST ID:10X7g+Qi No.57284 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Whoay thread. I'm going to be working all day and maybe into the night. Hope i produce something increadible!


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