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Do dwarfs live on Pluto? by :3 - Wed, 24 Dec 2014 07:31:28 EST ID:PNtK+lw6 No.54857 Locked Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1419424288937.gif -(1593205B / 1.52MB, 768x432) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 1593205
Hello.

Today on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1520367906/max-navy-1488-space-program there is a project that might tell us why Pluto really isent classed as a planet anymore.

Do anyone know if aliens live on Pluto?

Is NASA refusing to tell us why they really changed what we now say Pluto is?

Is Earth in some sort of conflict with the dwarfs?

I pledged some money and if you just like me want to find out the truh please try to get it 100% funded.
Locked
Thread has been locked
Thread was locked by: The_Regal_Machine
Reason: /tinfoil/
>>
Joseph-Louis Lagrange - Wed, 24 Dec 2014 13:30:17 EST ID:vud/nmWg No.54858 Ignore Report Quick Reply
dwarf people are not people.


Interstellar Question by Edmond Halley - Wed, 17 Dec 2014 15:42:59 EST ID:9uY/b809 No.54832 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1418848979655.jpg -(18183B / 17.76KB, 204x200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 18183
Not here to talk about whether or not it was good movie or not. Just had a question that has me a little baffled.

So they go down on the planet near the black hole with the intense gravity, and they leave the black guy behind. Due to relativity time passes for the black guy much faster than on the distorted planet. So, would the black guy see if he looked down at the planet with a high power telescope? Would they be moving extremely slow or what?
>>
Thomas Henderson - Wed, 17 Dec 2014 23:46:43 EST ID:Ncnb3OJc No.54836 Ignore Report Quick Reply
yeah
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Henry Russell - Tue, 23 Dec 2014 05:01:31 EST ID:3dhJAQX4 No.54854 Ignore Report Quick Reply
no
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Bart Bok - Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:01:11 EST ID:KCC23SOp No.54855 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54832
Doesn't matter because they would have never gone to waterworld; the signal would have been "stretched" by gravity as well; they wouldn't be able to receive an affirmative message and if they did it (but they wouldn't) would just be junk. Even the binary pings they were using would be rendered unusable. speculation, but I do have a background in radio communication; feel free to debunk if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I am not.

But yes, he would see their journey unfold at a snails pace, they would look like they were hardly moving.
>>
Bart Bok - Tue, 23 Dec 2014 20:28:18 EST ID:KCC23SOp No.54856 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54855
Addendum to what I said earlier: He may not be able to see them well or even at all; if he can see them at all they will appear to be moving _very_ slowly. A fixed number of photons travel from the planet to the distant observer in orbit, because of the distorting effect in play photons leaving the planet nano seconds after other photons will reach the observer quite a bit after the photons they had been chasing. The guy in space is receiving an hours worth of photons over a 20 year period. That should have an effect on how the entire planet is seen; like it should leave a ghost trail in its orbit or something.


Black Holes and trash compactors by Edmond Halley - Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:14:24 EST ID:n8sUDEe1 No.54835 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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If black holes are at the center of each galaxy, and their gravitational vortex creates the whirlpool spiraling of galaxy arms, then is it possible black holes and gamma ray bursts such as Cygnus X-1 act as garbage disposals or trash compactors and they can get full. Does the pull of a black hole suck in at varying speeds? Do some black holes start slowing down? Is there too much matter in them?

On an unrelated note, my garbage disposal is currently jammed.
1 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
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Vera Rubiin - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:59:28 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54838 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54837
>black holes don't get full
I can't find the freaking article so you're on your own with this one but if a black hole is overloaded with too much matter coming in it loses sucking power.

But the thing is it has to be a lot of matter and it has to keep coming in. If it stops, the black hole returns to full strength.

Google failed me.
>>
Thomas Henderson - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:50:51 EST ID:Ncnb3OJc No.54840 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54838
wtf are you talking about? you're on your own with your baseless citation-required claim.
>>
Henry Russell - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 14:29:32 EST ID:YHjXylC8 No.54842 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54838
If there's too much mass being accreted, a portion of the matter being accreted will be ejected, but the size/shape of a body is irrelevant to its gravitational effect on another body, only center of mass and distance.
>>
Wilhelm Beer - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 19:09:50 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54843 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54840
Finally found something similar but it's not what I remember
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6940627/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/scientists-learn-how-black-hole-stops-itself/#.VJNnNAYDA
More or less if 2 supermassive black holes are merging, the accretion discs can merge into a quazar that will blow all matter away from the holes so nothing will fall into the black holes, effectively neutralizing their pull for a short amount of time.

But this isn't exactly the article I remember. I think I might be suffering from false-memory syndrome which is weird because my memory is usually flawless and I assure you that I'm not just pulling this out of my ass (aka lying).

I really can't find it but I know I fucking saw it. This is frustrating.

Just from my speculation, since Hawking radiation works by 2 entangled particles approaching a black hole and only one falling in, with the other by chance flying off, the black hole loses mass, or that's as much as I understand. If we have a black hole of 10 stellar masses and throw dozens of stellar masses of entangled particles at it, the black hole would eventually evaporate completely because it's natural rate of decay by hawking radiation would have been artificially increased. I wouldn't doubt a type 3 civilization would be capable of destroying a black hole in this manner. But this isn't what I read either.
>>
Johann Bode - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:36:59 EST ID:Ncnb3OJc No.54844 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54843
Reading about the quasar phase was interesting, thanks.

> effectively neutralizing their pull
Though the quasar's wind blows gas away and inhibits the growth of the black hole, I don't see it as the black hole losing strength. There are other things (stars orbiting beyond the significant effects of the cosmic wind, dark matter) that continue being dominated by the black hole's gravity. I guess I'm arguing semantics.

> Hawking radiation works by 2 entangled particles approaching a black hole and only one falling in
Entanglement isn't important to Hawking radiation. Virtual particle pairs that occur very close to the event horizon can be split apart by the gravity, with one particle accreted and the other escaping. The infalling particle represents negative energy since they're virtual (add up to 0) and the escaping particle is positive (it carries mass away from the black hole). Virtual particle pairs is just one way of explaining Hawking radiation. Another is quantum tunneling, which allows particles to cross the event horizon without moving faster than the speed of light.

> throw dozens of stellar masses of entangled particles at it, the black hole would eventually evaporate
That wouldn't work. We'd be throwing mass at the black hole and it would grow. Even if we could split virtual particles pairs with an artificial event horizon, any energy we could throw would be positive, meaning the negative half of the virtual pairs would reduce our own mass.


Subject Zero by Illuminati - Wed, 17 Dec 2014 20:29:13 EST ID:PNtK+lw6 No.54833 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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What does this image show really?

I do belive that its space related.
>>
Joseph Taylor Jr. - Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:01:23 EST ID:4HbkLal6 No.54834 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54833
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_satellite
>>
Vera Rubiin - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 07:02:36 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54839 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54834
>a thermal blanket lost during an EVA
Bullshit, who brings a blanket on an EVA?

And if it is a blanket, who let the fucking clown into EVA?
>>
Henry Russell - Thu, 18 Dec 2014 12:39:10 EST ID:YHjXylC8 No.54841 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54839
Several segments of the station are covered in thermal blankets, some of these need to be removed when connecting segments together.
In at least one case, several parts drifted away due to complications.


iron you say? by Henry Draper - Wed, 03 Dec 2014 15:37:23 EST ID:PA4ykyUu No.54750 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1417639043009.jpg -(16804B / 16.41KB, 300x296) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 16804
I've read before that asteroids contain iron, years further back than I can exactly remember... I want to share with you a rant I've engaged on instagram as it pertains to the cyanide found closer to the galactic core.
what if life on Earth came from microbes, and that the conditions on Mars and Venus were too dramatic to allow the evolution of microbes. The first wave of planets to be created by the sun were bombarded by asteroids containing microbial life, and the gravity of the planets became so strong after condensing so much that the small asteroids with little gravity began to rotate around the planets to become moons, but their gravitational field was too weak to contain microbial life, and thus the sun blew those microbes into space. Would microbes survive an impact with rocky terrain, and would the survivors of an impact be the eventual homo-sapien? or would the conditions need be a soft collision with buoyant elements such as plasmic hydrogen gas, or water? or perhaps a large icy meteor containing dna needed melting in the atmosphere of Earth and needed to be so large that the DNA itself would not be destroyed. Well, scientists have discovered that DNA can survive the heat of atmospheric conditions in indirect penetration. It seems that the DNA could not stay attached to the parts designed for wind resistance, but did survive in crevices where wind resistance has little to no factorable value.Well, then we would have to suppose in the case that a requirement is a soft collision that the liquid hydrogen core had since been subjected to temperatures so high that fusion could occur enough times for the core to become Iron, and we physically are not yet capable of testing at that magnitude. But we can use contextual evidence, such like the biogenesis theories that life did sprinkle upon the Earth as mana from the gaseous atmosphere... but what kind of atmosphere would exist strong enough to resist the explosive fusion reactions of Hydrogen to Iron? Well, it seems that iron is a product of lesser resistance to fusion by-product, if you compare the Earth's core to the surface of the sun, where fusion only occurs in the core of the sun and only photons make way to the surface, producing sun spot…
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
5 posts and 1 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
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Tycho Brahe - Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:13:15 EST ID:cwDJHXj1 No.54761 Ignore Report Quick Reply
that's some ritalin-level wall of text; tldr
>>
Georges-Henri Lemaitre - Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:12:08 EST ID:8TNpyERp No.54778 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54759

yes, some babbling, I am incredibly lazy at this as most of my time is before or after bedtime... and disproving singularity proves difficult for a lazy fuck like me.
"fusion by-product " and the resistance thereof.:
every event follows a chain-of-command. Whether or not it is specified as a principal or an effect determines it's dimensionality, as I am attempting to undefine the hyperreality of the big bang and relocate the starting point of reality at this known location in the galaxy, where human consciousness could have began subatomically before or during a delineation of self and a host reality.

The universe being an illusion would prove my theory and my above stated points.
>>
Jan Hendrik Oort - Tue, 09 Dec 2014 09:53:12 EST ID:uyuUt0io No.54786 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54778
>as I am attempting to undefine the hyperreality of the big bang and relocate the starting point of reality at this known location in the galaxy, where human consciousness could have began subatomically before or during a delineation of self and a host reality.
you're babbling again. simplify your points and theory to the point where they make sense to people who aren't on NBOMe, please, so we can have a discussion
>>
Hannes Alven - Tue, 16 Dec 2014 09:56:44 EST ID:h1NupmlQ No.54830 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54778

>The universe being an illusion would prove my theory and my above stated points.

No, it wouldn't. Please, Just stop.
You're not re-writing physics and cosmology, you're just spouting meta-physical bullshit and labeling it a theory.
>>
Charles Messier - Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:38:01 EST ID:LjaCs03k No.54831 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54759

"Mana from heaven," as in fluff from the sky in the bible, as in his allegory to organic chemical rain in the early earths atmosphere as seen on Titan.


So.. flying saucers are a thing. by Fritz Zwicky - Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:35:25 EST ID:eMAv2J9C No.54813 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAdj6vpYppA
and they're powered by laser beams.

"with 2 to 6 better fuel efficiency to the space shuttle"

Just..watch the whole thing, holy shit.
>>
Johann Encke - Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:58:03 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54814 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54813
This video is ancient.

Also, I've known this for a long time, they run on the same concept as a solar sail.

The object in OP's pic is about the size of a dinner plate.
>>
William Huggins - Sun, 14 Dec 2014 13:32:16 EST ID:5O93DDXg No.54818 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54814
scale testing or not I want to see the results on the full sized model. Launching a bit of mass isn't hard. But launching the larger mass of a fully space ready rocket is another issue.
>>
Joseph Taylor Jr. - Sun, 14 Dec 2014 14:43:36 EST ID:eMAv2J9C No.54819 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1 year later (scaled up model)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_9ac-w4DW8

Apparently this is considered a "Lightcraft" and it's distinct from solar sails because it's dependent on the expansion of reaction mass to accelerate rather than being accelerated by light pressure alone.

not a lot of news on this, probably not a feasible project to "launch satellites into orbit within 10 years"


Space is interesting by Tycho Brahe - Wed, 10 Dec 2014 17:11:27 EST ID:R7ksFdp2 No.54798 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I really want to learn more about space, /sagan/ but the sheer vastness of the amount of information on the subject is just overwhelming to me. I could spend a lifetime just literally reading about space, different theories, the math involved with space and space travel, how stars work, if interdimensional travel is possible, astral planes... Just all of it. And to be honest it's very humbling but yet it puts things into perspective. We are less than a fraction than a blink of an eye in age to the universe, and we are beyond microscopic because the universe is so vast but yet, it would take millions of years to reach the farthest depths. Maybe I'm over-thinking this but space is just mystifying to me and there's so much to learn and I don't know where to start.
>>
Caroline Herschel - Wed, 10 Dec 2014 20:38:40 EST ID:4HbkLal6 No.54799 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54798
>>where
"to start"

does it actually matter? I mean, truly? On a cosmic scale, geographically or in size? Duration?

Space is pretty fucking interesting man.
>>
Riccardo Giacconi - Wed, 10 Dec 2014 20:50:24 EST ID:9uY/b809 No.54801 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Watch Cosmos, new and old. Read books by Sagan, Hawking, Tyson.
>>
John Bahcall - Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:04:55 EST ID:R7ksFdp2 No.54802 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54801
I'm going to start with those, and any other documentaries on like the history channel or discovery cause those are interesting too when they actually play them and not reality tv because everyone on cable is a sellout.


high boy by Stephen Hawking - Mon, 08 Dec 2014 02:54:07 EST ID:PCHvbwVp No.54779 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
File: 1418025247741.jpg -(99472B / 97.14KB, 1024x600) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 99472
Im high off weed and painkillers right now, someone tell me what's up with other life forms in another galaxy..When will we finally come in to contact with another earth like planet? :(i
4 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
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Christiaan Huygens - Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:18:40 EST ID:Fb62S27X No.54785 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54781
>We aren't that far from developing warp travel after all
Lol what
>>
Allan Sandage - Tue, 09 Dec 2014 12:05:54 EST ID:uHtwQo5I No.54787 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54785
You don't work for Lokheed Martin, do you?
642.700.000.000 US$/ year have to go somewhere.
That's the budget of the 'murrican army according to wikipedia.
For comparisation The ISS costed about 100.000.000.000 US$.
>>
Edward Barnard - Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:30:17 EST ID:H3af7FdZ No.54788 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54787
Lockheed Martin CEO here, most of this money, not counting bonuses, fraud and blow, goes towards killing babies for oil and satanic gratification within the limits of physics, available energy and material technology. Sorry.
>>
Bernard Burke - Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:53:03 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54789 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54787
When you have studied the progress of science and technology for as long as I have, predicting the future becomes an art form.

Plus you have to understand that we're on an exponential curve with our progress, not a linear. If it were linearly, it would be hundreds of years, at this rate a quantum AI will invent warp travel in less than 100. It won't even be invented by humans, it will be invented by a machine.
>>
James Elliott - Wed, 10 Dec 2014 01:15:47 EST ID:Zbe0PVOU No.54792 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54787
If we're going to be the world's greatest superpower, we damn well better have defence at the top of our priorities. Money well spent if you ask me. And as you said, it's advancing our technology at a breathtaking pace. The ISS is the public relations arm of our space program, in case you didn't know.


Space: The Final Fronteir by Robert Wilson - Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:43:06 EST ID:2gyC10rH No.54773 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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In1967, The Outer Space Treaty held that everything in the solar system, except Earth itself, is the property of everyone in the world and no one country.

What does this mean about future space colonization? Can we not claim areas to develop and utilize? Or will we just disregard this, place weapons and begin star wars for land?
>>
Mike Brown - Sun, 07 Dec 2014 17:32:32 EST ID:yZpPrhjN No.54777 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54773
That treaty served as a means for big countries to mutually stop each other from doing stupid things during that era.

Future agreements, over how sovereignty of space colony functioned, will likely emerge from, how countries will be dealing with artificial islands and floating cities on Earth's ocean in coming era.


who will join my army to destory the moon by Henrietta Levitt - Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:42:16 EST ID:EVyOC35t No.54391 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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jesus fuck I hate the moon

look at it sitting up there and being lazy while I have to work all day

I cant wait until im rich and powerful and can finally deal with the moon...

Whats our game plan guys we need to move quick so IT cant stop us
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>>
Clyde Tombaugh - Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:35:27 EST ID:m2V5EK+8 No.54675 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Stay the fuck off my moon, filthy peasants.
>>
Bernard-Ferdinand Lyot - Sun, 16 Nov 2014 02:13:26 EST ID:MB3acsCp No.54691 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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MOOOOOOOOON!!!
>>
Edwin Hubble - Sun, 16 Nov 2014 06:19:30 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54692 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54691
Well shit, Piccolo already destroyed the moon.
>>
Friedrich Bessel - Sun, 16 Nov 2014 07:25:43 EST ID:wK+Onyuj No.54693 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54692
I guess the light of that event hasn't reached Earth yet.
>>
Johann Bode - Thu, 27 Nov 2014 22:58:01 EST ID:5O93DDXg No.54739 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>54693


Quantum Entanglement in astronomy by Alan Guth - Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:28:16 EST ID:415JX8nG No.54724 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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I recently read an article where some experimenters were able to entangle light with particles bound by the strong interaction, thereby creating a "ghost" strong force within the group of photons, which don't have color. I believe the researchers alluded that it was like a crystal made of light or something.

I don't really understand the process which by entanglement works, but I was wondering if this could have implications for neutrino astronomy?
Could neutrinos traveling through the detector be entangled with photons or the particles of some electrically charged medium in order to create measurable events and create an image?

Imige is the Super-Kamiokande neutrino telescope
3 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
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Joseph Lockyer - Sun, 23 Nov 2014 15:15:17 EST ID:/lAAexxR No.54729 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54728
What's this laser confirmation you're talking about? I'm not familiar with the terminology, though I can see how it's one possible way of providing a basis for comparison. Though, if you're gonna run a laser, just communicate via it in the first place.
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Walter Adams - Mon, 24 Nov 2014 03:23:42 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54732 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54729
The quantum uncertainty principle makes it impossible to measure both state and momentum simultaneously because bouncing a photon off a particle changes it's state or momentum (not sure which). The laser eliminates the need for 1 of those measurements.

The reason we don't use lasers is because they're limited to light speed. And radio waves, which travel at light speed, are already used to transmit information back to Earth. I believe a signal to mars takes 3 minutes, 6 for a round trip, not really useful for real-time controls. That's why Curiosity is mostly autonomous.
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Walter Adams - Mon, 24 Nov 2014 03:25:57 EST ID:ksAXy5yQ No.54733 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54732
>quantum uncertainty
Actually I'm wrong, it's this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)

Wikipedia has a good example of why.
>A standard mercury-in-glass thermometer must absorb or give up some thermal energy to record a temperature, and therefore changes the temperature of the body which it is measuring.
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Joseph von Fraunhofer - Mon, 24 Nov 2014 11:04:40 EST ID:GHJG01Xm No.54734 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54732
>>54733
It sounds like you're talking about quantum teleportation and/or remote state preparation. Problem is, neither allows you to communicate classical bits faster than the speed of light.
>>
Ejnar Hertzprung - Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:42:15 EST ID:Im3GVW// No.54738 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54724
The problem with neutrino detectors in that the probability of interaction with matter is very low, so you don't detect many of them. Entangling them with photons wouldn't improve that. Entangling them also wouldn't give you any more information, I don't think you could actually entangle them without changing the neutrino destroying the information you want. We can already makes images with neutrinos it just takes a very long time due to low count rates.


design your own alien! by Alan Guth - Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:56:03 EST ID:C2T6C64T No.54670 Ignore Report Reply Quick Reply
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basically just imagine something we could meet in the future. something that evolved somewhere that wasnt earth. or just honorable mentions of someones elses creations. i always liked the elcor of mass effect, the pupeteers of nivens known space, the turlogs of the damned trilogy, the various hive-minded insectoid species of scifi in general and so forth as interesting examples of how a species might develop. not just your standard bipedal humanoid with a weird face.
3 posts and 1 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
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Urbain Le Verrier - Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:43:58 EST ID:e7BOleJi No.54689 Ignore Report Quick Reply
My favorite type of theoretical organism are molecular clouds in space that have spontaneously assembled to become sentient beings.

See the story by Fred Hoyle for more, its super good.
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Kocoayello !jxaL03vL/Q - Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:53:35 EST ID:Ar8ZIqLY No.54697 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Some alien's I've designed. I've got lore for most, ask away if you are curious.
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Henry Russell - Mon, 17 Nov 2014 06:32:30 EST ID:sky71Ye7 No.54699 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>54697
Nice! Cool and farfetched, though some of them kinda look like pokemons with those bright colors.

What's that rigelian alien at the top?


>>54679

I don't think aquatic species can develop technological civilizations, but there's nothing that stops mollusk-like species to conquer the land.

As for AC, if you don't like civ-type games I won't recommend it to you. It is cumbersome and unintuitive. The quotes, movies and text you get when researching new tech was the only thing that kept me playing for as long as I did TBH. The game's hard sci-fi lore is superb.
>>
James van Allen - Fri, 21 Nov 2014 02:18:20 EST ID:EHSCkQyN No.54715 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I think that aliens probably look like Jeff Goldblum.
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Fred Whipple - Sat, 22 Nov 2014 00:09:50 EST ID:4HbkLal6 No.54722 Ignore Report Quick Reply
you can be certain they'll be acetylene welding steel, whoever they are.

I wonder what kind of cars they'd drive...


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