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moon by Jocelyn Bell - Thu, 31 May 2018 10:35:24 EST ID:HhkM3rED No.57285 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Does the moon really have influence on behavior? Or is it a well loved myth?
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Henrietta Levitt - Sat, 02 Jun 2018 19:54:01 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57286 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The moon's influence on earth life is a well documented fact. It's one in the same the reason we have whales beaching at high tide and why menstrual cycles last 28 days.

If you're making a slightly more specific claim -- that at full moons, people's behavior becomes more unusual -- that's also a well documented fact.

If you want to speculate on an effect apart from those, though, you are departing the purview of astronomy.
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Joseph Lockyer - Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:47:06 EST ID:lmH545fQ No.57287 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57286
And what are the reasons for this?
Any suggestions where to learn more about it?
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Fred Hoyle - Sun, 03 Jun 2018 13:19:47 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57288 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57287
Reasons for which? The tides exist because the moon's gravity distorts the shape of the oceans, causing them to wobble like an egg shape around the relatively more spherical earth (interestingly high tide is not when the moon is over head. The tide chases the moon but never actually catches up with it.)

Menstrual cycles last a month because a lot of earth based life has incorporated the timing of lunar cycles and the tides into biological rhythms, and humans happen to be one of those species. Other species will spawn or hatch in timing with the tides, so most connections involve coordinating reproduction -- the thing most important for life to have timed correctly.

Why full moons cause odd behavior is a more controversial topic. Some people claim it is merely a placebo effect, that because people have heard so many stories about strange occurrences on full moons they subconsciously create them. On the other hand, some people think there really is another biological rhythm at play, causing subtle psychological shifts some people are more susceptible to.

Here's an article on it: https://www.livescience.com/7899-moon-myths-truth-lunar-effects.html
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James Christy - Tue, 05 Jun 2018 10:00:22 EST ID:Q1CtxL06 No.57289 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57285
it's the light, too!
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Daniel Kirkwood - Thu, 21 Jun 2018 01:04:26 EST ID:9DP0lCVt No.57315 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57285
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Charles Bolton - Wed, 04 Jul 2018 05:06:04 EST ID:1gePjXr3 No.57333 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57286
Is this not proof of astrology then?
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Georges-Henri Lemaitre - Wed, 04 Jul 2018 10:42:19 EST ID:IRQpyxVi No.57334 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57333
no. astrology asserts that the position of all stars, planets, and celestial bodies, especially at the time of your birth, are what determine your future and personality. a metric fuck tonne of data on many more celestial bodies and the observed influence they have on human beings, along with at least a working hypothesis of the mechanism behind these effects that suggest its legitimacy would be required before there is any conclusive proof of astrology.

it would almost be beyond belief if it werent true that the lunar cycle affects the behavior of living organisms, given the moon is what even allowed for the possibility of complex and intelligent forms of life on Earth to form in the first place. simple organisms aren't capable of traveling any great distance at all, and since evidence points to complex life originating first in the oceans, the tides and shit would have a major impact on the evolution of simple organisms.

on top of that, the spiritual, religious, mythological, and therefore psychological effects surrounding the moon and lunar cycle are nothing to scoff at. considering the wholesale slaughter of each other committed as a result of spiritual and religious beliefs (which are fundamentally based in psychological roots), along with the historically documented effects on human behavior show just how potent these mental phenomena are.

lol, proof of astrology, nigga please
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Walter Adams - Thu, 05 Jul 2018 02:43:45 EST ID:1gePjXr3 No.57337 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57334
Well, I like astrology, and I have always found that the moon influencing behaviour means that stars and planets and their position in the sky could also influence our behaviour. I'm not saying astrology is real, but I like to think it is.
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Vera Rubiin - Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:33:45 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57339 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57334
Astrology is not a homogenous field. There are dozens of flavors of it, and only the most garishly self-serving and low-brow seriously posit that the positions in ones natal chart are what completely determine your future and personality. In its most primitive, ancient sense, astrology is really a theory of human psychology and sociology communicated through astrological symbols and narratives. The ancients were aware of this, at least in inner circles; unfortunately most modern practitioners of astrology stem from its revival of the Victorian era, which, like with most things, took astrology at face value, from the remnants of publicly available ancient text which were scoured of all esoteric principles, and with no deeper thinking than that started printing it in newspapers and telling everyone that this is exactly and only what astrology is.

Anyway, astrology is pretty cool if you analyze it dispassionately, but it is certainly off topic for this board.
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Bernhard Schmidt - Sun, 08 Jul 2018 22:12:19 EST ID:a/BMXTZM No.57343 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57339
I am interested to hear more about your insight on astrology. Please post more, correct board or not.
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Charles Messier - Mon, 09 Jul 2018 00:55:11 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57344 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57343
Thanks for your interest. I'll be brief so the extreme empiricists and skeptics don't get too mad.
While, like I alluded to, there are many different kinds of astrology, all with pros and cons, I'm going to talk about my general philosophical theory of interpreting any kind of astrology and why it can make sense, or is at least useful, without having to believe a whole bunch of 'woo-woo' stuff.

Astrology is a theory of psychology and sociology, boiled down to an essential core. The ancients observed that there were patterns in the way people behaved, with the same unique and coherent personality types seeming to recur over and over, and each with unique properties of interaction. In reality, they were bumping up against the personality types, something we might today characterize through models like the Myers-Briggs typology.

In whatever region where advanced astrology developed (it appeared independently multiple times throughout the ancient and medieval periods) they matched these types to legendary figures in their myths, which were themselves, unknowingly, based on the archetypes of the collective unconscious, which is itself not necessarily a mystical thing but merely the suggestion that all humans share a fundamental underlying symbolic landscape. In this way, whether knowingly or not, they identified that the mythologues embodied in the archetypes manifest as psychological tendencies in individuals, and dynamical interactions within society.

Taking this as their hypothesis, all the rest of the history of astrology as a natural philosophy were about determining what the exact 'influence' of each planet or sign was. Unwittingly, they were hunting down individual psychological phenomena, in some cases in ways that survived into the actual discipline of psychology (for example, we call people 'lunatics' because such people were formerly believed to be crazy in relation to an imbalance in the position of the moon in their chart.)

Now, as modern people, we do not seriously need to believe that there is actually some kind of energy field or force emanating from the moon that, if it hit one at the right angle, might make one more susceptible to insanity. Rather, as our cultural narratives about the moon (for example) tap into a specific current of our collective psyche, analyzing the narratives about the moon, what astrological data suggest about the moon in relation to you personally, can reveal interesting information about one's own mind and relation with others that, if interpreted symbolically and skeptically, provides and additional stream of information to help you understand your life. Naturally, you should trust your reason. If you get a positive cancer result, but your astrologist is trying to convince you that your descending lunar node means it's actually benign, please, get the chemo. But if you carefully look at what the symbols in your natal chart, or a specific time chart, suggest according to the principles of astrology, if gives you a narrative to reflect on which, correct or not, provides an otherwise opaque window into the workings of your own soul.

Plus, you get to trigger both new agers and scientists simultaneously by claiming to be a skeptical occultist.
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Chushiro Hayashi - Wed, 11 Jul 2018 13:12:22 EST ID:lfz4p1Et No.57345 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57344
Good post! I'd give you some internet points, if that were an option.
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Gerard Kuiper - Sun, 15 Jul 2018 22:43:45 EST ID:a/BMXTZM No.57346 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57344
Tell me more tell me more. Or feel free to post on /spooky/ and link
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Stephen Hawking - Tue, 17 Jul 2018 00:22:10 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57350 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>57346
I think I'll play it safe and leave it at that for here. Took the meta topic (of skeptical illuminism) to /spooky/ like you suggested, to expand it a bit beyond simply astrology. See ya there anyone who is still interested!
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Jericho !.iRAtomic2 - Wed, 22 Aug 2018 00:13:41 EST ID:qgHixtEA No.57436 Report Quick Reply
>>57285
So, as a general skeptic of anything that can't be scientifically proven, I never actually believed in this.

Until I started working with people with developmental disabilities.

For whatever reason, the day after full moons, behaviors in clients would spike drastically. Most of the times that I was attacked, bitten, had my hair pulled, was the first day after a full moon. My personal belief was that this may simply be a function of the increased amount of light at night, with my reasoning being that it kept people up more at night, especially those who were sensory sensitive. As irritability is a common side effect of lack of sleep, this would lead to clients being more sensitive to stimuli that might upset them. Obviously, this is all anecdotal, but I think it deserves to be said. I actually have data on attacks and behaviors from one client who required close recordkeeping, but have yet to compare this data to full moons. However, I do know that at least a few times, the night was completely overcast. Perhaps enough light filters through the clouds to support my theory of light interfering with sleep, but I really couldn't say without having actually measured the amount of moonlight on a nightly basis. And if it was solely a question of light, why didn't these behaviors occur in a smooth curve as the moon waxed and waned, instead of tending to occur all at once, the day after the full moon?

I really don't know. I wish I had answers, because it would have helped me out a lot in my last job.
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Edmond Halley - Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:08:12 EST ID:457vC2+I No.57437 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>57436
How could it really be the light though, since humans have been exposed to a huge amount of additional light thanks to artificial lighting and no one has gone crazy? There would have to be something special about light coming from the moon, which is even a more woo-woo direction to go in that assuming it has something to do with the tides or magnetism.


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