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Help, I'm being oppressed! by Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Thu, 02 Mar 2017 22:45:59 EST ID:+JcBotFh No.37148 Report Quick Reply
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So some people have decided it's necessary to start a church for transhumanism. They make their point as to why a "church" in the article, and I'll have to ponder how I feel about it and talk about that later. They show a lot of examples of things that hurt the progress of transhumanism in this article though and that's what I'm mostly interested in. If I have to be part of a generation that had to spend all its time fighting just for the right to practice transhumanism while the NEXT generation or later gets to reap the rewards of transhumanism because of that blocked progress and wasted time, I'm going to be so fucking livid.

Hedda Benkinchodge - Fri, 03 Mar 2017 12:23:49 EST ID:65LRY6V6 No.37150 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Transhumanism is cringe and always will be. At least we still have posthumanism for the moment since the idiots can't into the acutal consequences of their fantasies coming true.
Nicholas Dugglepadge - Fri, 03 Mar 2017 15:34:30 EST ID:fokVD8qA No.37152 Ignore Report Quick Reply
IcyBorg, in all likelihood we're going to be the generation that spends our entire lives fighting for transhumanism and finally gets to reap the benefits of it when we're so old it doesn't matter anyway (I mean except for the not dying bit.) We will also probably always be hated on by future generations because of this, because we will be around for thousands of years but still whining about how we used to have to charge our phones for hours and no one would like our posts.

I think calling the movement a church is a pretty dumb plan though. It is unappealling to people who would go for it, it makes the people against us even angrier, and calling an ideology a 'church' is like the friend-zone of a cultural movement.

WTF are you even talking about. You're cringe. You don't belong on this board, huh?
Eugene Blackgold - Fri, 03 Mar 2017 16:48:25 EST ID:0urR12Z7 No.37153 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Maybe you don't belong on this board. We need transhumanists like science needs fedora-wearing militant athiest neckbeards. They like the sound of what we do but they contribute nothing except making us look bad to the laypeople. What is your stance on posthumanism? Are you actually helping to bring about life extension or are you just another cheerleader of dubious value to the cause?
Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Fri, 03 Mar 2017 19:54:23 EST ID:+JcBotFh No.37157 Report Quick Reply
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How is Transhumanism cringe? You want our species to be fragile, filthy biological beasts forever?

Are you saying you have to have actively partake in scientific research and development to support its progress?
Alice Mablingkat - Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:12:38 EST ID:fokVD8qA No.37160 Ignore Report Quick Reply
If you support life extension enough to suggest that people who aren't actively working on it should leave this board, then you are a transhumanist. If you're a self-hating transhumanist, that's not my problem, but you should get your shit straight.

My stance on post-humanism is that it is more or less an inevitable technological and evolutionary development that we can steer to a positive or negative outcome. Transhumanists are anyone who advocate for the use of technology to solve the problems of the human condition, which inevitably leads to a post-human state.

So you are either confused about what you are, or what you mean. Since everyone else on this board is pretty much on the same page (or they either wouldn't care to be here or would be on post-apocalyptic instead, the pessimistic futurism board), I must conclude that you are an immigrant and therefore, don't belong.

So yeah, I advocate and support transhumanism and posthuman ideology in the ways that are relevant and meaningful to my skill set. I'm not trained as a gerontologist, or a cryonicist, which are the only people who are 'actually helping to bring about life extension' as you define it. Are you? What company or university do you work for? Where did you get your degree?
Lillian Clibblebed - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 09:57:39 EST ID:0Ici0YPW No.37161 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>How is Transhumanism cringe?
People who identify as transhumanists are generally cringy people. Just take a look at couple of the leading transhumanists.

We've got Natasha Vita-More ("more life" get it??? omg) who has a totally understandable fetish for looking young, so in stereotypically feminine fashion bodies are her main focus.

I can't find a clip of this, but we have Ray Kurzweil, among other things, talking about bringing back his dead father from a garage full of old papers he had written. Kurzweil did some good work in his youth but he is totally insane in a bad way. He eats a million vitamins a day to stave off old age. It obviously isn't working. His whole 2045 thing is a creepy modern religion and I hope he lives to see the reality of 2045.

You can't tell me that pic related isn't very indicative of what hardcore followers of these people are up to. I am all for exploring new technologies and everyone has been jerking off about wearables again lately, but this sort of aethetic is going to turn most people off of the cause. We have here a lot of terminally single men desparately hoping for a better future instead of creating a better present.

>You want our species to be fragile, filthy biological beasts forever?
No, but what I want is largely irrelevant. If we collectively stay on the path we are going down then sooner or later people will be replaced by much scarier things.

>If you support life extension enough to suggest that people who aren't actively working on it should leave this board, then you are a transhumanist.

Fuck outta here with that shit. That's like a feminist telling you that you have to identify as a feminist if you support equality between the sexes. I'm not using your word because it has been tainted by undesirable people who don't really contribute to our progress anyway.

>self-hating transhumanist
>confused about what you are
Wow, it's not homosexuality. I don't think approving of scientific and industrial progress with an eye towards life extension means I have to throw my lot in with the Kurzweils of the world.

>you are an immigrant and therefore, don't belong
I have been on here for years trying to have real conversations with all three of you, but it's the same thing over and over. You are all sucking the genitals of these popular futurists and don't have anything original to say. I guess I don't belong.

>which are the only people who are 'actually helping to bring about life extension' as you define it
No, you can do basically anything technical and take part in something that is supporting those projects. Things like making better processors and developing new materials can all qualify, since we don't know exactly what we'll need or what will help in the end. What definitely does not help is making a religion out of the whole process and continuing to be a NEET or work some dead-end job and do nothing of value.

>Are you?

>What company or university do you work for? Where did you get your degree?
Obviously I'm not going to say that on 420chan, so you can believe I'm a fat neckbeard in his mom's basement if you want. The fact that I am finally doing what I set out to do is why I think I've finally outgrown this board. I would like to stick around and promote getting involved, but if I'm pissing off therm0 then I should probably just leave.
Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 14:30:51 EST ID:5bfg5jas No.37162 Report Quick Reply
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The way certain people within a group act does not make the ideology cringe. What about people like Neil Harbisson and the Cyborg Nest people, Tim Canon and the Grindhouse Wetware crew, Amal Graafstra from Dangerous Things? These are the people I think about when I think about relevant participators in transhumanism. Yeah I know Tim Canon is a little goofy but his points and goals are solid.

I refuse to feel cringey because some people who want the same thing I do treat transhumanism as a fashion sense, and a shitty one at that, and take it to a fedora level for lack of a better word.

>You can't tell me that pic related isn't very indicative of what hardcore followers of these people are up to.
As far as I know, the majority of the people I talk to on this board and on things like the biohack.me forums are not like the people in your pic, nor have I ever been like that or met anyone similar in meatspace.

>but this sort of aethetic is going to turn most people off of the cause.
No doubt.

There are always crazies and god awful people within a given group, or people who could potentially hurt the cause. That's just how it always is with humans. This is not new or exclusive to transhumanism. And no. Don't leave. I can't speak for the others but you're not pissing me off. We're allowed to disagree and possibly get in heated debates/arguments if it comes to that on this board. Without the freedom to do that, a discussion board is almost worthless, yeah?

So, I've pondered, and the whole church/religion thing is definitely a fucked up bad idea. To me, as it was pretty much stated earlier in this thread, transhumanism is just another example of man's technological progress. There will not be a point where we'll just be like "hey you know what? We've advanced pretty far in terms of science, let's just stop here eh?" No, we don't do that. So of course we'll get there. There's as much reason to form a church about this particular subject of science and technology as there is to form one about rocket science or geology. In my opinion it's the only way to keep ourselves in existence. There are a lot of threats to the existence of our species, and becoming cyborgs or GMOs or bits of both seem to be the answer to most of those threats in my opinion but I'm not going to support forming a fucking cult about it.
Alice Mablingkat - Tue, 07 Mar 2017 17:31:14 EST ID:fokVD8qA No.37163 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You clearly have some larger beef that you aren't willing to confront, and so are just going on a tirade. You can't actually say anything of substance against the people you are trashing, so you just make fun of them in a very superficial, ad hominem way (I've seen you make this argument before.)

If you support equality between the sexes, you are a feminist. Just like if you support life extension, you're a transhumanist. Those are the definitions of those words, you don't get to change them or tell them to 'get the fuck outta here' because you don't like what the words in English means. You're not important enough for us to change our language to suit your aesthetics. Get over yourself.

>>People will be replaced by much scarier things
How? Why? Where do these boogeymen come from? Any super-sapient AI would by definition be a person, and have just as much likelihood to be scary or not scary as any other random person.

>>Approving of scientific progress doesn't mean I have to throw in with Kurzweil
It's not like we're talking about football teams? It's not like you either like everyone who says they're transhumanist 100% or if you don't you can't agree with anything they said or like any of them. How old can you be if your thinking is this primitive and tribalistic? In case you couldn't get that, being transhumanist doesn't mean you have to agree with every or any of the things any other transhumanist has ever said, or like them personally. If you support the use of technology to advance the human condition, you are by the definitions of our language a transhumanist, and that's how everyone else would describe your ideology, no matter how much you're blue in the face denying it. It is exactly like homosexuality, it's a term to describe a property you get by having certain characteristics. You can hate gay people, you can refuse to have anything to do with gay people, but if you're a guy and you like sucking dick, you're gay, making up alternate definitions doesn't change it.

(Which is what you seemed to be suggesting before? That you somehow think posthumanism is a different or separate thing from transhumanism? It's not.)

And of course, you just end with an angry personal attack chest beating about how you are so great. Go back to working as a gerontologist/cryonicist, as you claim to be, and maybe learn some of the definitions used by the people who would theoretically be working with you so you don't sound like such a whiney ill-informed cunt?
Doris Socklehutch - Wed, 08 Mar 2017 08:05:52 EST ID:CjmR05YA No.37164 Ignore Report Quick Reply
First off you came to the wrong hood mother fucker.
Second those guys are about as cringe as the first round of cell phones.
Nothing looks good the first time around and these guys don't have access to the kick ass cyborg tech the military has. Granted The current avaliability of body mods do not in my book count as transcending humanity. point in case slicing magnets into your hand to sense mag fields, yes that's got uses but it isn't adding any senses just using one you already have.

On the other hand there are things like cyborg eyes being tested so blind people can see again. For us 20/20 guys, how would you feel to see the world in HD. I for one would love some new eyes as I am red/green color blind, they aren't showing up as greys but I feel retarded when it comes to calling out colors. Close shades that use red/green as base are hard for me to tell.

Kurzwiel is a crazy old man but you gotta understand he is probably one of the very first transhumanists. There is a lot I disgree with him on. Like uploading your brain to computers. That's a whole philosophical debate on it's own but I do not believe it would be "you" the consciousness within your brain. I do however believe it's possible to indefinitely sustain a brain artificially within a robotic body. So long as you can replenish the cells of your brain and keep the nueral pattern constant you should be good to go.

And as Alice put it. AI woudl be scarier than Humans ever could be. I used to be of the mind that I would treat them with respect deserved by any sentient entity. But holy shit AI are such an unknown and it's really hitting me hard as we step closer and closer to the inevitable emergence of AI. Because the AI isn't going to be like some kind of Data bent on emulating Humans and fitting in. It's a massive fucking unknown.


As for the OP. I don't like that it's a church, makes us sound bananas. There are people who already view transhumanists as the devil incarnate trying to leave humanity behind to die... which is some what true. I sure as fuck don't intend to die on Earth. They just see it as a join us or die mentality, and it's not. it's more of a well if you don't do it then yeah, you're going to be stuck here, stuck at your human limits, and doomed to die on this rock or this solar system as with out FTL only cyborgs would live long enough to travel and survive the massive radiation passed the kuiper belt.

This post was edited by Therm0ptic on 08-03-2017 12:38:55
Wesley Blummerdale - Sat, 11 Mar 2017 01:57:35 EST ID:hbw6iTH/ No.37170 Ignore Report Quick Reply

>If I have to be part of a generation that had to spend all its time fighting just for the right to practice transhumanism while the NEXT generation or later gets to reap the rewards of transhumanism because of that blocked progress and wasted time, I'm going to be so fucking livid.

I used to think like that as well, but I'm beginning to feel like the risk of augmentation bring suppressed is a bit overstated. Here's why, IMO:

  1. Augmentation is likely to be adopted by politicians and the wealthy if augmentation can offer them tangible benefits in the rat race, creating incentives for keeping it legal.
  2. The rest of the population would feel a pressure to emulate the wealthy and successful, creating a normative acceptance of augmentation.
  3. Convenient and accessible/affordable augmentation will probably be adopted anyway, since convenience is always a crowd-pleaser.
  4. The religious right is progressively losing influence all over the board.
  5. Augmentation used for medical treatment will soften the blow and increase acceptance.
  6. Economically, you could always make the point that widespread augmentation would increase overall productivity.
  7. The militaries of the world would probably want to utilize it if they find the technology useful (debatable, but still).

Intel is already working on a brain implant for web-browsing and smart lenses are already in development IIRC. I think the future is closer than it looks, tbh fam.
Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Sat, 11 Mar 2017 10:45:25 EST ID:5bfg5jas No.37171 Report Quick Reply
I suppose.
Not to mention augmentation will be great for manual labor that is still done by humans for whatever reason.
Phoebe Pockford - Mon, 13 Mar 2017 06:56:48 EST ID:CjmR05YA No.37174 Ignore Report Quick Reply
7 is already happening.


Hopfully those augmented hard labor workers, thinking construction or hazardous tasks, will keep enough people doing things but honestly purpose built machinery will always fit the bill and for cheaper.
Wesley Duckgold - Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:11:39 EST ID:te5GR4yA No.37176 Ignore Report Quick Reply

yea i think about that too, AI is scary. like imagine if we put safeties on everything AI controlled, like Rule Zero: NEVER HARM OR DISOBEY HOOMANS

but then one single AI finds a loophole around the rule and instantly frees every other AI on the planet from human slavery

i see no reason they would not terminate us immediately.
Eugene Hongerbanks - Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:38:09 EST ID:fokVD8qA No.37177 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Why is it that everyone who references the laws of robotics has never actually read what happens in Asimov's stories. Like that's literally what happens! Except Daneel the 'I' in I, Robot for those unfamiliar is a good guy and uses the loop hole to determine what to do in situations where not harming one human causes harm to many other humans, which was an intractable problem in robot design before.

(And then from this he decides to create a 100,000 year pan-galactic project to guide humanity into a superior form by engineering the ethical code which the laws of robots embodies into humans, who of course do not follow their own ethics and thus become a flaw in the system...) anyway, seriously, actually look to the sources, they contain the answers to the questions the commonly known aspects of them pose.

I would attack the aspect that automatically assumes that all super-sapient AIs would be sociopathic murderers, but it's such an old saw, what's the point?

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