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The "Bingo Hall" Argument by Doug Basham - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:01:18 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5739621 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1495209678877.jpg -(2190772B / 2.09MB, 3264x2448) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 2190772
Is the Bingo Hall argument the biggest indicator of a WWE shill?

You know, the argument that someone makes to totally negate the quality a promotion has because of the size of the venues it runs in without ever watching it?

Even Stampede Wrestling wrestled in bingo halls and small venues, but no one will shit on that because of the Hart Family and because it was a territory. To shit on a company for running a bingo hall or small venue is basically like unknowingly admitting to wrestling fans that you've never watched wrestling outside of mainstream wrestling.

Why do wrestling fans even care what type of venue a show is in or how much money a company makes? I can't imagine it's anything other than a reason to shit on a company because it isn't WWE.
>>
Poison Sawada JULIE - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:03:25 EST ID:FSsKqMRN No.5739625 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Of course it is, the implication is that the quality of wrestling is determined by how much money the promotion makes, which is not necessarily true at all.
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:03:36 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739626 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Wrestling fans don't care. Only WWE marks do.
>>
R-Truth - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:17:43 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5739641 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739626
this
>>
Darkness Crabtree - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:21:14 EST ID:jgE1stmI No.5739646 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The bingo hall argument is valid only to wrestlers, not to wrestling fans.
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:21:40 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739647 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739626
Boom.

I've only been to arena shows for WWE, so maybe that's why I think they suck, but I'd rather see wrestling in a smaller joint any day. I'm the same with music tho, so it could be personal preference.
>>
Randy Orton - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:23:06 EST ID:bnhgY3kj No.5739650 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495210986891.jpg -(127735B / 124.74KB, 675x425) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
What's a Bingo Hall? Never been to one.
>>
Dick Togo - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:23:34 EST ID:lQyzpFDJ No.5739652 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739626

and ebin contrarians, don't forget about them
>>
Tony Schiavone - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:24:28 EST ID:8uplAyt6 No.5739655 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Unfortunately, far too many people are still of the opinion that if it isn't WWE, isn't held at a sold out arena, and/or isn't on television etc it isn't worth paying attention to and you deserve to be mocked for not blindly sucking millionaire corporate dick.

Don't bother arguing with these people. Just pity them and move on.
>>
CRAPCOM !SNGay1lkXQ - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:25:32 EST ID:FIeM+sk4 No.5739657 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739652
You have to read BOTH sentences.
>>
Aurora Rose Levesque - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:27:59 EST ID:awD4GKUN No.5739659 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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WWE will be in bingo halls in a few years
>>
Mitch - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:29:03 EST ID:BlrIoG3o No.5739661 Ignore Report Quick Reply
"Based Kliq" headlined WWF shows in 1995 that were relegated to high school gyms
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:30:16 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739664 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739659
Can't wait tbh
>>
R-Truth - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:30:16 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5739665 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739659
I know I saw a picture on /wooo/ of a SD live show recently and it was quite literally in a high school gym. Wish I saved it.
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:31:49 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739667 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739650
>Orton's first known match:
>St. Therese's Gym, Louisville, KY
>>
CRAPCOM !SNGay1lkXQ - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:34:10 EST ID:FIeM+sk4 No.5739672 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739665
A lot of their house shows outside major markets seem to run in that rec center/slightly-higher-scale high school gym-level of venues. A lot of early Raws were taped at rec centers.
>>
DJ Gabriel - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:34:27 EST ID:ImHym8BK No.5739675 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739667
His only dive ever.
>>
Rey Mysterio - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:36:35 EST ID:2Z1wFF/F No.5739682 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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ARMBARS EVERYWHERE
>>
CRAPCOM !SNGay1lkXQ - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:39:21 EST ID:FIeM+sk4 No.5739685 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739675
as long as you don't look at ratings numbers, i guess
>>
R-Truth - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:40:39 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5739688 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739685
>>
Tatanka - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:43:56 EST ID:UDcJBMOf No.5739694 Ignore Report Quick Reply
small venues have an infinitely better atmosphere for wrestling than huge stadiums. don't @ me unless you've been to both and been part of a hot crowd (gay chanting crowds don't count)
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:45:29 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739697 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739685
oh shi-

>>5739694
>gay chanting crowds

The gay community!?
>>
Doug Basham - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:46:39 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5739700 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739682

Wow. This just made me remember that I had a dream last night that Miz asked for his release because he wanted to wrestle elsewhere and was going on this world tour similar to Cody Rhodes when he made his list of who he wanted to wrestle.
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:50:35 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739710 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739700
>Mike Mizzanon heeling it up in AAW

I'm honestly down
>>
CRAPCOM !SNGay1lkXQ - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:52:46 EST ID:FIeM+sk4 No.5739714 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739710
only if it means watching Keith Lee dropping him on his head for 20 minutes
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:02:47 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739728 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739700
>he wanted to wrestle elsewhere

Wouldn't he need to start wrestling in WWE before though?
>>
Lin Bairon - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:06:12 EST ID:/wOOSb8A No.5739733 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Why has there always got to be this childish us vs. them, either/or mindset when it comes to wrestling?

It is quite possible to like/dislike WWE and the Indies at the same time; you don't have to pick a side and stick up for them no matter what.

For instance I dislike both the WWE and most Indy organisations. For different reasons sure, but they both suck at the moment.
>>
Lucky Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:20:52 EST ID:sy59iezq No.5739747 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739626
Right on the money. Faggot fans were making fun of TNA when they had Bound for Glory in Tokyo... the venue was KORAKUEN HALL. I get ut's not Sumo Hall and shit but fuck me that building is the undisputed home of Puro.
>>
R-Truth - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:26:15 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5739756 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739747
>people shitting on Korakuen Hall
how?
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:33:52 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739765 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739714
Oh, absolutely, my dude. Even seeing Callihan or Pentagon kick the shit out of him would be amazing.

>>5739733
I don't think there is anything wrong with people supporting what they like and shitting on what they don't.
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:35:41 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739768 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739756
>muh garden
>>
Midajah - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:35:54 EST ID:9nhpnAHh No.5739770 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I want to see Miz and Tirantes jr be assholes at each other
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:38:14 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739773 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739747
I think it was moreso about TNA partnering with WRESTLE-1

also doing their biggest show of the year elsewhere because they couldn't draw American fans
>>
Tony Garea - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:41:33 EST ID:cKHRn5Np No.5739777 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I always thought it was more of a knock on ECW specifically since that was their base of operations. It is kinda silly fundamentally - old ladies playing bingo one night, hardcore wrestling the next.

It is kind of a stupid argument, as even the WWWF/WWF ran armories and gyms and, well, wherever they could that was suitable and affordable back in the day. But it's not meant to make sense so much as just be an insult (save with the whole dive thing frankly, because half the guys on RAW dive to set up a commercial.)
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:46:27 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739790 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739777
I mean, buildings serve lots of purposes and ECW was the most influential promotion of the last ~30 years...
>>
P.N. News - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:47:22 EST ID:KsM1pHmi No.5739791 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739625
to a guy like randy orton, the point of wrestling is to make money, not be high quality. usually high quality wrestling makes money, but that isn't always the case.

i guess if you're a fan and you make this argument, you're nothing but a WWE mark, but if you're a guy in the WWE, you're entitled to it, and Randy was speaking as a wrestler to other wrestlers.

>>5739756
it holds about 2000 people. that's not a good draw for TNA's biggest show of the year, but they got to announce a sell out in tokyo, i guess.
>>
Jamie Noble - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:49:56 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5739796 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739791
>to a guy like randy orton, the point of wrestling is to make money,

But his dogshit segments can't even draw flies.
>>
Gunner - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:19:08 EST ID:6wzRQTu6 No.5739835 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739650
>orton couldn't even work trash day safely and he shits on guys doing dives
>>
Mitch - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:21:57 EST ID:BlrIoG3o No.5739837 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739768
>muh garden

NXT couldn't even sell out the Theater at the Garden last year

>b-b-but it was a weekday
>b-b-but Love & Hip Hop opened on Broadway
>b-b-but you can't expect WWE to do well in a soft market like MSG
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:23:44 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739839 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739837
>>
The Dog - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:01:38 EST ID:dYhrmb6W No.5739880 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739621
>shill
Stop using this word. None of you are using it correctly. None of you know what it means.
>>
Andy Ridge - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:07:11 EST ID:bZdcz+nU No.5739886 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739659
Well Seth looks motivated.
>>
Becky Bayless - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:14:14 EST ID:XKb39Gja No.5739897 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I feel bad for anyone who's never stepped inside the 2300 arena. When you go to a show there you FEEL the history of the building. It's as much a wrestling building is as MSG or the Omni or Cow Palace or the Mid-South Coliseum or any other famous venue.
I personally would rather see ANY type of live entertainment in a small venue where I don't have to worry about hard cameras blocking my view or any shit like that. big WWE shows that, shit is no fun for me. give me a tiny room that reeks of sweat stale beer, and cigarettes if you're lucky where the beers are cheap and the entertainment is right in your fuckin face
>>
Arik Cannon - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:19:27 EST ID:HPiyY3My No.5739902 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739897
I've got a buddy from Pitt that was exclusively a WWE mark until he went to a house of hardcore show at the 2300. Said he couldn't believe how cool the place was and all the history he learned about it. One day I gotta make it there.
>>
R-Truth - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:20:21 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5739904 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739837
Aren't the ticket prices for MSG ridiculously high now?
>>
Rowdy Roddy Piper - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:39:15 EST ID:LHfF2xDu No.5739926 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Its really an argument done by people that are pretty insecure and need to feel validation by liking the most popular thing

Its like the guy that plays Dark Side of the Moon at parties
>>
Kurt Angle - Fri, 19 May 2017 16:44:44 EST ID:riCl7rTL No.5739990 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739621
Its also ignoring the fact that WWE has done smaller shows before themselves

Fuck wrestlemania 9, their biggest show that year didnt even draw 20,000
>>
Antonio Honda - Fri, 19 May 2017 22:14:52 EST ID:/wOOSb8A No.5740230 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739880

Yes I do it's those things you find at the beach.
>>
Sting - Fri, 19 May 2017 22:22:34 EST ID:Nr+AlF06 No.5740237 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739837
>b-b-but Love & Hip Hop opened on Broadway
>>
Masada - Fri, 19 May 2017 22:42:01 EST ID:rfbE4Ypr No.5740241 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739791
BFG '15 was listed as being in Charlotte, but was actually held about 18 miles east of the city, in Concord. The hall was some kind of basketball/minor league hockey/indoor tennis arena. Held about 2000 or so.
The show was not sold out before doors opened, but all floor seats were sold. Upstaris wasn't completely filled, but lots of fans in seats. The only floor seats empty were from fans in S.C. who prepaid, but couldn't make it due to floods.
Fun show, not a "selfie" kind of crowd, but a bunch of weirdos, which made me feel right at home.
Oddest thing was-I didn't see a single Omega shirt. Lots of fans, but no shirts.
People I talked to came from GA, AL, MS, TN, VA, WVA, PA, OH, and WI.

You don't need a huge crowd, just one that's into things. I hope they go to Bethlehem again, the crowds there were into it, and it's not a long drive. I wonder where BFG will be this year.
>>
Taz - Fri, 19 May 2017 22:43:16 EST ID:EWufTK01 No.5740244 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739904
theater, not msg proper
and not there no
>>
Tiffany Mellon - Fri, 19 May 2017 23:21:24 EST ID:2YNjmU6+ No.5740259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739796
The point of wrestling IS to make money. But you need to be a draw to make money aka be interesting in the ring aka have decent ring psychology aka know how to work the marks.
>>
Michael PS Hayes - Fri, 19 May 2017 23:30:49 EST ID:iUijANpJ No.5740263 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739791
It holds a little less than 1800 and it announced 1500 sellout
>>
Darkness Crabtree - Sat, 20 May 2017 05:27:26 EST ID:0kgPgK6d No.5740379 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739621
What's funny is many WWE "shills" look back fondly on the Attitude and New Generation eras of the WWE when the company had production values and attendances similar to TNA and ROH today. But they won't watch those two companies now because the production isn't good enough for them.

Some early RAW episodes were in high school gyms in front of less than 1000 people.
>>
Prince Nana - Sat, 20 May 2017 05:34:08 EST ID:GNvpH8ma No.5740380 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740259
lol what is this post

wrestling is entertainment
>>
Darkness Crabtree - Sat, 20 May 2017 05:38:08 EST ID:0kgPgK6d No.5740381 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740259
>The point of wrestling IS to make money.

The vast majority of pro wrestlers will never make back the money they put into it.
>>
Tomoka Nakagawa - Sat, 20 May 2017 05:41:20 EST ID:gf04CKB/ No.5740382 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740379
First off, Early Raw was horrendous
Second
>attendances similar to TNA and ROH today
>Attitutde
MAYBE in the New Generation on average Raws, but even during the New Generations, the PPVs still had way more attendance than TNA and ROH,
Attitude, it's no contest.
>>
Rachel Summerlyn - Sat, 20 May 2017 06:14:09 EST ID:jh8/P5EJ No.5740387 Ignore Report Quick Reply
They are not WWE shills. WWE has spent all the shill budget for ESPN.
>>
Bad News Brown - Sat, 20 May 2017 06:16:14 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5740389 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740259
So, in other words: not Orton.
>>
Leilani Kai - Sat, 20 May 2017 06:46:00 EST ID:esfQdvdN No.5740399 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5740389
>>
Conor O'Brian - Sat, 20 May 2017 07:22:41 EST ID:uC72kSHq No.5740413 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740389
>Still buttblasted he blew indie marks the fuck out on Twitter
>>
Akira Tozawa - Sat, 20 May 2017 08:47:44 EST ID:pvOBAHzF No.5740438 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740413
>Liking Randy Orton

>Unironically liking Randy Orton and thinking he's entertaining or cool

woah
>>
Antonio Honda - Sat, 20 May 2017 10:01:35 EST ID:/wOOSb8A No.5740499 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740438

Or you know, you could just not really give a shit about Orton either way but find that twitter stuff funny.

What is it with this board and an inability to see anything in terms other than either/or, us vs. them, black and white terms?
>>
Crimson - Sat, 20 May 2017 10:33:25 EST ID:DPbZ1lm6 No.5740524 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740499
Winning internet arguments.
>>
Bad News Brown - Sat, 20 May 2017 10:34:23 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5740526 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740413
yeah me using Orton as a punchline for well over a decade sure resulted from his insecure litposting the other weekend
>>
Maven - Sat, 20 May 2017 11:17:43 EST ID:IvbofAce No.5740561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739665
Is this it? Or more recent?
>>
Brad Armstrong - Sat, 20 May 2017 11:36:23 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5740565 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740413

>brags about how much money he makes
>mocks the attendance of indie shows
>shits on indie wrestlers for creating art how they see it
>shits on fans for enjoying good wrestling
>shows just how insecure he is with one tweet

boy, he sure blew me the fuck out
>>
Hayabusa - Sat, 20 May 2017 11:48:13 EST ID:8TYxxFU/ No.5740572 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740561
That's obviously not recent, it's packed.
>>
The Godfather - Sat, 20 May 2017 11:52:04 EST ID:9mLhacvJ No.5740573 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739659
Was this a house show or something?
>>
Stacy Carter - Sat, 20 May 2017 12:47:05 EST ID:dYhrmb6W No.5740607 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740572
Plus the ring apron is obviously old.
>>
Mari Apache - Sat, 20 May 2017 13:28:09 EST ID:o2I15rzK No.5740647 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739990
It's a shame because I like that set up better than the large arenas for weekly TV. It's the perfect size.
>>
Kid Kash - Sat, 20 May 2017 13:31:28 EST ID:jDTmlFFw No.5740651 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740499
Because what he said wasn't even funny. It's just fuel for people who have this irrational hate of the indies to go "INDIES BTFO, BASED RANDY WORKING THE SMARKS."
>>
Jamilia Craft - Sat, 20 May 2017 13:36:36 EST ID:UIp3KaKy No.5740654 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740651
Hey, randy telling the ...falling thing to bubba was funny.
>>
Jimmy Jacobs - Sat, 20 May 2017 14:36:12 EST ID:KG3VLPIv No.5740700 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5739694
I've been in an Olympic stadium in a hot crowd chanting gay.
>>
Evan Bourne - Sat, 20 May 2017 14:43:25 EST ID:mucKzjjt No.5740708 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5739694
I've been to exactly 3 wrestling shows: one in a big arena for a Raw (and got a good sense of the size since I was in the nosebleeds), one in an armory for a show that drew just short of 200 people, and one at a baseball stadium that drew two or three thousand.

I haven't been in a small venue for a big/hot indie, so I don't know about that atmosphere (would love to be to a Beyond show for something like that), but I think the Baseball Stadium was the best. Almost any seat seemed like a good one, the crowd was big enough to be loud and pop hard for the big stuff (Cody vs Angle was HOT, Liger vs Jeff Hardy not too far although that could've just been me marking out for Liger), unique atmosphere with the lighting and being outside, there was a match where Callihan & Broken Matt brawled into the outfield and that was cool, etc.
>>
Xavier - Sat, 20 May 2017 14:47:40 EST ID:0xK4Pu5X No.5740712 Ignore Report Quick Reply
WWE's own obsession with saying "armories and bingo halls" is hilarious. The reason is so they can try to pretend literally all non-WWE wrestling shows are always in a bingo hall in front of 12 people.

Of course, some idiots buy it.
>>
Jack Swagger - Sat, 20 May 2017 14:50:46 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5740714 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740712
>some
Try a few million idiots who still watch WWE weekly for some reason.
>>
Darkness Crabtree - Sat, 20 May 2017 18:18:14 EST ID:0kgPgK6d No.5740887 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5740382
The production values of 1999 RAW (peak Attitude era) are worse than TNA and ROH today. The RAW set was extremely plain.
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Sat, 20 May 2017 18:27:25 EST ID:fFbHMKlg No.5740895 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740887

>The RAW set was extremely plain.

You say that as if it were a bad thing. Simpler is often better.
>>
Kiman - Sat, 20 May 2017 18:36:03 EST ID:M/b7ZVp5 No.5740903 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740887
That's a good thing. Wrestling should always have some sort of grittiness to it. I really loved the throwback RAW's cause it had an entirely different vibe just based on the set

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqeuOAOZhxg
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Sat, 20 May 2017 18:40:23 EST ID:fFbHMKlg No.5740906 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740903

The first Old-School Raw with JR, Daniel Bryan high-fiving that fan, and John Cena on Piper's Pit remains one of the best things WWE has done in the past decade.
>>
Tomoka Nakagawa - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:06:50 EST ID:gf04CKB/ No.5740915 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I love how indie marks hate WWE and don't watch it, but you guys can't stop talking about the WWE.
Randy points out completely factual things about indie wrestling and you guys lost your minds.
>>
Malia Hosaka - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:10:35 EST ID:QENMuAwV No.5740918 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740915
Bitching about bitching
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:11:57 EST ID:fFbHMKlg No.5740919 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740915

>you guys can't stop talking about the WWE

The World Wrestling Entertainment is the most dominant pro wrestling brand in the world, so how can we avoid talking about it altogether? It makes about as much sense as American comic book fans avoiding any and all talk about Marvel or DC despite the dominance of The Big Two in the American comic book industry.
>>
Malia Hosaka - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:14:37 EST ID:QENMuAwV No.5740921 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740919
Don't say bad things about his precious sports entertainment it's his favorite
>>
Tomoka Nakagawa - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:34:24 EST ID:gf04CKB/ No.5740940 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740921
Yes, you're a real wrestling fan, you don't watch no sports entertainment, despite the fact that PWG is the most sports entertainment you could possibly have.
>>
Brad Armstrong - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:46:28 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5740958 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740915

I actually have stopped watching it.

This is why I want a WWE general board so I never have to hear about it and can focus on good wrestling that I do like.
>>
Malia Hosaka - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:47:15 EST ID:QENMuAwV No.5740960 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740940
Please don't get upset I specifically avoided saying anything bad about sports entertainment because I know you guys get real sensitive about it being terrible
>>
Tomoka Nakagawa - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:55:15 EST ID:gf04CKB/ No.5740983 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740958
There is a hide feature

>>i5740960
Yes, you only watch real wrestling, we get it.
Do explain what's makes WWE sports entertainment and not the average indie.

Wrestling is sports entertainment,
>>
Taz - Sat, 20 May 2017 19:58:32 EST ID:EWufTK01 No.5740993 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740983
emphasis on shitty soap opera angles is the first thing that jumps to mind for me
>>
El Mesias - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:08:08 EST ID:dyBKvLA/ No.5741008 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740983
For about a decade now WWE has been "Wasted Potential: The Promotion". They have too many fans that will watch regardless of the show's quality. Every fan on this site probably had their own "anti-indie" phase, you'll grow out of it
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Randy Orton - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:12:04 EST ID:gf04CKB/ No.5741018 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741008
When did I say I didn't like indies, but nice generalization?
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El Mesias - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:16:13 EST ID:dyBKvLA/ No.5741024 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741018
Referring to people as "indie marks", attempting an "all wrestling is sports-entertainment" argument, these are dead giveaways of someone whose wrestling diet consists of 95% WWE
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The Dog - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:18:22 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5741026 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>wtf i hate dragon gate now because it's "sports entertainment" and not real wrassling
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Randy Orton - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:20:07 EST ID:gf04CKB/ No.5741030 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741024
>Referring to people as "indie marks",
But, they are indie marks

>"all wrestling is sports-entertainment"
Except, it is. Sports-Entertainment is just a phrase that WWE used to get out of having a commission on their ass.
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El Mesias - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:46:15 EST ID:dyBKvLA/ No.5741065 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741030
My point in replying to you the first time was that people don't dislike and hate on WWE just to be contrarian.Once you become invested in a promotion that has continuity, clear creative direction, AND great wrestling on top of that, you just won't be able to stomach what WWE feeds you on a weekly basis.
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Vince McMahon - Sat, 20 May 2017 20:47:03 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5741070 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740983

>Do explain what's makes WWE sports entertainment and not the average indie.

overproduced show, bright lightning, everything is too clean
constantly being reminded it's just entertainment
scripts written for promos
more focus on promos and "comedy" segments than wrestling

I'm probably forgetting some stuff. I get where you're coming from and I don't necessarily disagree about all wrestling technically being considered sports entertainment. But WWE has essentially branded themselves as sports entertainment and tried to remove the word wrestling from their vocabulary. Due to the phraseology being pushed down everyone throat on top of the things I listed above, they have painted themselves as different. There is no other wrestling promotion like them and I don't mean that in a good way. Look at WWE, then look at literally any other wrestling company on the planet. That's the difference.
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Jamal - Sat, 20 May 2017 21:21:37 EST ID:l+D+zZ2k No.5741157 Ignore Report Quick Reply
You can be the best artist in the world but if only 5 people see your work, you're going to die poor and unknown.
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Hugo Savinovich - Sat, 20 May 2017 21:33:42 EST ID:O/ifanAF No.5741177 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741157
Some people don't care and there are plenty of artists considered greats that weren't popular or successful in their lifetime.

If you want to make money in any remotely artistic media, you make some sacrifices to reach the top; impressing the guys with the connections and/or appealing to the widest audience. It's not a bad thing, just not necessarily the best way to make the best overall product.

That isn't to say those unknowns are all geniuses. Some of them aren't noticed because they suck.
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Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Sat, 20 May 2017 21:36:59 EST ID:fFbHMKlg No.5741182 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741157

Alternatively, being seen by thousands - even millions - of people does not mean your work is good, nor does it mean that you will have personal and financial stability.
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Hugo Savinovich - Sat, 20 May 2017 21:43:35 EST ID:O/ifanAF No.5741192 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741157
One more thing I realized after I posted:

"5 people" is a very low estimate these days, even as a hyperbolic example. The top indies draw hundreds and are seen by thousands via DVD/VOD/iPPV. Some bigger shows draw thousands as well, and that's just "the indie scene" of USA/Canada/Europe I'm referring to. Japan & Mexico have companies that can draw way more regularly and have television (maybe not the best timeslot, but a late night slot is better than just online), and ROH is actually doing better in terms of business-side since they just broke their attendance record and are probably hitting more stations soon.
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BastionBooger !EfVwyVp5SE - Sat, 20 May 2017 22:05:34 EST ID:cbuqvgTF No.5741227 Ignore Report Quick Reply
This answer is based upon how you see wrestling:
If you see wrestling as an art form, as a medium for storytelling; then the Bingo Hall argument is farcical, modern WWE programming follows no coherent story except the Number 1 guy overcoming "odds stacked against him" and one to three other guys being fattened up for the Number 1 guy's next shows.
The Bingo Hall argument is to just cover up the fact that judging by standards of art the WWE is utter garbage. The WWE has yet to prove that it's new corporate style has any merit, all of it's talent is aging and it's "new stars" are either failing ex-football players or hamstrung indie talent.

If you judge wrestling by the money and the miles and only based on a business model then WWE is the bull in the room. No company is bigger, no company is more stable, no company has more saturation, no company has a bigger library. The WWE IS wrestling... except it's not, it's Sports Entertainment! It's action figures and DVDs and superheroes that inspire children to fight against bullying.
The WWE is a brand, and it is THE brand. It is known worldwide, children all over the world have Cena and Reigns shirts. If you want the money, then you gotta go to Vince. When you sell out stadiums do you really care what some non-jacked guys are doing in the backyard or when out their local VFW?
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Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Sat, 20 May 2017 22:11:14 EST ID:fFbHMKlg No.5741238 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741227

>modern WWE programming follows no coherent story

http://411mania.com/wrestling/is-the-wwe-just-one-big-commercial-now/
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BastionBooger !EfVwyVp5SE - Sat, 20 May 2017 22:16:35 EST ID:cbuqvgTF No.5741242 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741238
Damn it Freehaven...
Ah, nostalgia.

Also good read.
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Sycho Sid - Sun, 21 May 2017 02:21:27 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5741519 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5740915
>you guys lost your minds

Et tu, blockhead?
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Lance Cade - Sun, 21 May 2017 08:26:38 EST ID:2Ook/2ai No.5741643 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The only type of fan who uses the "bingo hall" argument are hardcore, old-school Monday Night War era marks. The type that only watches youtube videos of that era or Ruthless Aggression era, listens to shoots from Nash, Russo, etc, and still watching WWE programing while simultaneously bitching about how bad it is and blaming everyone except the one in charge.
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Sycho Sid - Sun, 21 May 2017 08:30:30 EST ID:QnkdvqEy No.5741647 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741643
I'd argue it's the exact opposite: post-MNW kids raised exclusively on a diet of WWE.
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Jeff Hardy - Sun, 21 May 2017 09:33:07 EST ID:awD4GKUN No.5741696 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495373587104.png -(938479B / 916.48KB, 992x705) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
ARMBARS EVERYWHERE
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The Dog - Sun, 21 May 2017 10:04:30 EST ID:tBCZG3wL No.5741714 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741696
lel i love these pics
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Naomichi Marufuji - Sun, 21 May 2017 10:08:56 EST ID:0xK4Pu5X No.5741719 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495375736868.jpg -(15240B / 14.88KB, 366x257) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
ARMBARS EVERYWHERE
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Disco Inferno - Sun, 21 May 2017 10:15:04 EST ID:bWZ+YR1t No.5741724 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5741696
Where was this? I love the colosseum style bleacher seating.
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Eddie Kingston - Sun, 21 May 2017 10:23:14 EST ID:2Z1wFF/F No.5741730 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1495376594443.jpg -(240264B / 234.63KB, 800x541) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>5741724
Its the Plaza de Toros de Valencia


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