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False Prophets by Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 07:57:34 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938508 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1515848254207.jpg -(158074B / 154.37KB, 670x388) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 158074
ITT: Wrestlers who we all thought were going to be amazing that ended up being mediocre. I'll start with Dean Ambrose.

It's hard to believe that there was a time when this dude was universally loved and was buzzed about by many to become a future megastar. Dean had it all at that point. He was ridiculously charismatic, he was good looking, had a nice body, and was a good enough wrestler. To this day I still think he's the most hyped up guy the WWE has ever had in their developmental system. He seemed like he was destined to become a huge star.


Now he's a midcarder who seems happy to just be making WWE money. He hasn't had a memorable match in years and even his most hardcore supporters are bored of him. I still think he could be great though if given the chance and if he wasn't constantly being booked as the third tier member of the shield.
>>
Sherri Martel - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:08:46 EST ID:qnYtyA5J No.5938517 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ITT: people WWE failed to utilise and marks who base their appreciation of a wrestler based on wwe booking.
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:10:29 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938518 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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You may not remember it, but once upon a time Davey Richards was supposed to be a big deal. He was having Meltzer rated 5 star matches and Daniel Bryan had essentially passed the torch to him to be king of the indies before going to the WWE. I don't know if anyone was really expecting him to be a mega star, but people definitely expected him to become the next Bryan Danielson and travel the world providing fans with amazing matches. He was absolutely amazing in ring and brought this crazy intensity to all of his matches. He should have been a solid player for TNA, New Japan, or WWE for a long time.


Instead, his attitude completely ruined him. He repeatedly showed himself to be an insufferable prick in real life so indy fans never got behind him. He always has one foot out the door of wrestling because he's training to be a doctor and fireman. Perhaps most dammning is how he prefers to work in a tag team because it's less work and pays the same. He's a big waste of talent because he'd obviously rather be doing other things. I don't even understand why he got into pro wrestling in the first place honestly since he claims to have never even watched it growing up.


Instead his poor attitude got in the way.
>>
Al Snow - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:13:34 EST ID:LnooaV+a No.5938520 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938517
this
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:18:35 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938521 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Last one for now will be Paige, which is sad considering the news that came out yesterday, but she had already flopped even before that. She is the first female wrestler that I can really remember the IWC falling in love with and rallying behind. The whole anti-diva gimmick really hit home and made people excited for her. She was really beautiful and at the time it seemed like she was great in the ring. Most thought she was going to be a focal point of the WWE womens division for a long time, and one of the biggest women stars ever.


A lot of things went into her failure and I don't think that a lot of them are her fault. After she came to the main roster bad booking made fans lose interest and better female wrestlers came along and overshadowed her. After they stuck her on Total Divas it shattered her gimmick. Sadly at this point she's more likely to be remembered for her sex tape than her wrestling.
>>
Terry Taylor - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:22:45 EST ID:szAGjBCt No.5938524 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938517
can't wait for somebody to post Ziggler and Wyatt
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:25:36 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938525 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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For Ted, it wasn't the fans that overrated him, but management. I don't really understand why they expected such big things from him but at some point they had him pegged as essentially what Roman Reigns is now. They thought he was going to be a long term star and even reportedly had planned to have him end Undertaker's wrestlemania streak.

Who knows why because he wasn't a very good wrestler and wasn't charismatic. The only thing he had going for him was nepotism and having a CAW body.I'm still surprised that he never even won a midcard title though.
>>
JV Rich - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:33:04 EST ID:EJ1v9FXH No.5938527 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938525
>Who knows why because he wasn't a very good wrestler and wasn't charismatic.
>The only thing he had going for him was nepotism and having a CAW body.

So what's the difference between him and Reigns?
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:34:34 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938529 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Nigel was a charismatic guy and a great wrestler. He was a part of that crop of amazing ROH talent that just set the world on fire; Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson, Kevin Steen, AJ Styles, Austin Aries, etc. At one point he was slated to get his big break, he was supposed to have Wade Barrett's place as leader of the Nexus, but he failed his WWE physical. This led to him joining TNA where he had a series of amazing matches with Kurt Angle before Hulk Hogan joined the company and buried him. He would eventually catch hepatitis, release the most depressing documentary ever, and retire from in ring competition.

He famously had to work at a deli in Florida shortly after being fired from TNA just to be able to make ends meet.
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:37:19 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938530 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938525
I don't know I was wondering that myself. I remember Meltzer saying that Reigns was "passing all of the backstage tests" so maybe that's where Ted failed? He didn't seem to be all that passionate about wrestling since he didn't wrestle a single indy date after the WWE let him go.
>>
Precum Papi - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:05:38 EST ID:JajFWkcF No.5938540 Ignore Report Quick Reply
“Good looking”?

I aint no batty bwoi but Dean Ambrose always looks like an alcoholic, wet from the violent shakes he’s had from going through alcohol withdrawal.

Then again, you yakubs got weird taste in everything so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>
Greg Excellent - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:08:17 EST ID:28UH0VUI No.5938541 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938527
roman has fantastic hair
>>
Dino Bravo - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:11:45 EST ID:MBDlzCwQ No.5938543 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I think if Ambrose get's a chance to be a solo heel he can come back around in a big way.
>>
Rosie Lottalove - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:13:10 EST ID:wiPdsHw+ No.5938544 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I never really got behind anyone aside from Styles. He's the one guy that has never failed to impress, so I'm ok with my pick for mah boy.
>>
StannisTheMannis !/R33EULsds - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:18:42 EST ID:rsYJf5Bj No.5938547 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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As much as it pains me. Thanks Vince.
>>
Bubba Ray Dudley - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:20:36 EST ID:soo9Sb0f No.5938549 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Dean is so frustrating.

His promos and matches can be legitimately fantastic and top tier but he instead is ok with being goofy and just mediocre.

But then again I'd probably feel the same if I was one of the hardest working, most active men in the company and then get resigned to the pre show of WM.
>>
Yep !8NBuQ4l6uQ - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:21:51 EST ID:2FQfXW3o No.5938550 Ignore Report Quick Reply
They had 2 chances to turn Dean into a star.
In 2014 in his feud with Seth and 2015-06 during from the Royal Rumble to the Match with Brock.

He was over as fuck .
>>
JV Rich - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:22:55 EST ID:EJ1v9FXH No.5938551 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938543
And who are they gonna cheer over Ambrose?
>>
Jolly Roger - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:23:45 EST ID:IYrGGiwC No.5938554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938551
>wwe
>cheering the face and not the heel
i think that's his point to get cheered
>>
Matt Classic - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 10:02:17 EST ID:yMVaIUGY No.5938574 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938549
You think he has a say in being goofy?
>>
KC Cloudy Day - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 10:55:37 EST ID:+GWXqpTR No.5938582 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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He was doomed the moment he was brought up with Reigns. He was always going to be kept under that glass ceiling.
I'll never turn my back on him. I still believe.
>>
Adam Bomb - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 10:59:25 EST ID:8uDxvx2i No.5938585 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938574

I mean, he's not some completely powerless young boy twink at this point who can't speak up without getting fired on the spot. I bet you he could easily just stop doing his over the top WACKY facial expressions and whatnot during his matches and nobody in the back would give him too much shit
>>
She Nay Nay - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:04:38 EST ID:bMZbqkct No.5938586 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I remember that Meltzer used to believe Ambrose would be the top star one day.

I think its a combination of the era and the circumstances of his call up that prevented him from taking that spot.

Of course he's not wholly devoid of guilt for not forcing himself into that position, but its impossible to tell how many potential legends we may have lost in the process of WWE trying to artificially force wrestlers into certain positions.
>>
Jasmine St. Claire - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:11:08 EST ID:S3PIn8fG No.5938588 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Skinny balding dork

not sure why ya'll had high hopes
>>
Serena Deeb - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:41:11 EST ID:45JLwn/H No.5938606 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938508
Should have been the one to turn heel after Shield. They can always do it after he returns from injury.
>>
Tiger Mask - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:46:16 EST ID:/QRGjWkL No.5938608 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938606
I think that was one of the good things about Seff turning, pretty much everyone thought it was going to be Dean, so it was a genuine surprise.
>>
Tyler Reks - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 12:44:36 EST ID:N5OJXAeK No.5938632 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Tore it up in FCW, pegged to be WWE's next big top babyface, career ending injury, his push went to Bo Dallas which caused everyone to turn on Bo.
>>
Serena Deeb - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 12:44:50 EST ID:45JLwn/H No.5938633 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938608
They needed Triple H, Kane, two retired agents, Dean, Cena and Sting to get Rollins over though.
>>
Tyler Reks - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 12:46:05 EST ID:N5OJXAeK No.5938634 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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HE WAS READY BROTHER
>>
Hayabusa - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 12:48:55 EST ID:mucKzjjt No.5938636 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938634
LITERALLY so ready that WWE fired him for having too much initiative.
>>
Petey Williams - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:06:04 EST ID:7FjvZqO7 No.5938649 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Motherfucker did the hard part by being innovative and getting over big time. Then was like "nah it's cool, I'm pretty chill in the midcard tbh"
>>
Hardcore Holly - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:09:10 EST ID:8wNQt+QC No.5938650 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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ARMBARS EVERYWHERE
>>
WrestlingTheSport - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:17:45 EST ID:hu7ZLtgc No.5938653 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I think this guy is the ultimate god king of false prophets in wrestling.

People thought he would be the biggest star in wrestling. He was getting a megapush, and they were building towards a title match for him at WM. And then everything just went awry.
>>
Mister Toad !SsYwTDHDIY - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:19:47 EST ID:gLVM35W0 No.5938654 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938649

To be fair, WWE did their usual pattern with guys who debut and get super over within a month or two.

They let it happen for a few months, put them in the main event, then they kill them and put them in the midcard for a year to earn whatever dues they need to do. Then, after a year or two, WWE tries to elevate them back to the main event and is shocked that the audience has grown apathetic and they never get their same heat/overness back.

Same thing happened to Jericho.
>>
Mister Toad !SsYwTDHDIY - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:23:32 EST ID:gLVM35W0 No.5938655 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938654

We're all lucky this didn't happen to AJ Styles, tbh. I think they tried to do that but he stayed over.
>>
Prince Nana - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:26:32 EST ID:M1ahJWky No.5938657 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Ambrose, Davey, Nigel, RVD and Kennedy have all had respectable careers
>>
Hayabusa - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:43:22 EST ID:mucKzjjt No.5938665 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938657
>Devey
>Kennedy
>respectable careers
>>
Bret Hart - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:43:49 EST ID:9CTGIug+ No.5938666 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938649
You have to admit part of it was his fault because, you know, he's RVD.
>>
Tursas - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:46:36 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5938671 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938518
I 'member!
It's weirdly liberating to hear that I wasn't imagining the amazing in-ring crazy intensity part. Dude was a rubber-band ball with teeth. Funnily enough it was finally winning the title that killed it all; he started wrestling more "like a champion" which to him meant ditching all the energy whilst & keeping all the bad habits.
Haven't heard that tag part though. Is this a quote from him or speculation? IIRC he claimed to prefer tagging because Eddie was great and deserved more attention than people gave him. Which was 100% true and turned out as planned. Eddie's the one who's since gotten over, accumulated titles, been offered contacts, etc..

>I don't even understand why he got into pro wrestling in the first place honestly since he claims to have never even watched it growing up.
His granpappy. Davey became interested in pro wrestling the old fashioned way; being really good at amateur wrestling. His grandfather got him into it as a way to distract him from some shitty childhood stuff I can't recall ATM and they bonded big time. Which led to the North-West indie scene, which led to ~20 hour bus trips to Reseda, which led to ROH & Japan. At some point early on Gramps died and Davey drove himself to become the very best in honor of his memory.
I've never really minded him wasting his potential and now I think I know why. He reached his goal (ROH Title, WON award, 5* match etc.) so presumably made has peace with wrestling and started focusing more on life stuff. Relationships, business, things he couldn't effectively juggle before. Whislt making sure he did all he could to put over his bud on the slow way out.
>>
Tursas - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:58:48 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5938680 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938529
Okay this one's fucking bollocks. At least in the context of the thread. Everybody else fucked up on their own terms, Nigel did everything fucking right (yes, even signing with TNA was a good idea at the time).
>>
Andy Douglas - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:13:21 EST ID:/LMUJzdn No.5938702 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Sean O'Haire is def up there of one of the biggest wastes of talent ever.

Too bad WCW ended, I think Bischoff had plans to build WCW's reboot around him.
>>
Mio Shirai - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:19:05 EST ID:5WNawHgu No.5938705 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Trent was a guy who could've easily become champion in a big promotion if he just was able to put the drugs down. When the guy was on he was one of the best both in ring and on the mic.
Those early CZW years were filled with dudes who should have been destined for big things but just never got there, none as sad as Acid's though.

Never forget that he got beat up by the Dudley's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djI2dyY8Z64
>>
Mio Shirai - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:19:53 EST ID:5WNawHgu No.5938708 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938705
*as
nb
>>
Sami Callihan - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:23:46 EST ID:U3yYrf7I No.5938713 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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surprised nobody has brought up the pope/elijah burke.
>>
Chii Tomiya - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:28:29 EST ID:cFGKb8fe No.5938718 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938702
Aye, he had huge potential and I can certainly see why Bischoff was high on him. Very athletic for a big man, real shame it never worked out. Big fan of that Seanton Bomb.
>>
StannisTheMannis !/R33EULsds - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:35:16 EST ID:cX4knbwY No.5938723 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938705
Acid was great. Tragedy, too. If you guys want a good look at him and hisnsad fall, the documentary Card Subject to Change spends a significant amount of time on Acid.
>>
BigJerichool222 !kfXLTkvyDo - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:42:42 EST ID:dP/YIAHN No.5938730 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Remember how over Tomko was for a bit in TNA as Batista-lite?
>>
Brian Pillman - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:49:29 EST ID:XW5MZeHX No.5938737 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938649
Yeah, like I like RVD and do blame WWE for not pushing him in 2002, but when those ECW fans were chanting "Same Old Shit" at Cena, while RVD was doing the same old wheel kicks, I started dying.

A lot of guys ended up getting lazy because they gave up after being misused. I don't blame them either.
>>
Brian Pillman - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 14:50:33 EST ID:XW5MZeHX No.5938739 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938713
LETS JOB THIS GUY TO A PEN AND PUT OVER ABYSS BROTHER
>>
Ranjin Singh - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:12:42 EST ID:VOIUVw1m No.5938761 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938530
I like to think 'passing all the backstage tests' was just 'not being an asshole like Manu was'.
>>
Monster C - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:13:57 EST ID:z8svWw5E No.5938762 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938508
Dean is in the same role Mick Foley was in. I think that is quite a noble spot on the card.
>>
David Von Erich - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:25:00 EST ID:34V56gn0 No.5938775 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938518
he didn't end up in WWE, but he was a top guy and had great matches throughout his runs in ROH and TNA.
>>
Francine - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:30:21 EST ID:oOoyt4A1 No.5938782 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938655
It's a testament to just how good Styles is that he stayed mega-over and is now the go-to "Oh fuck we fucked up, please rescue our shitty storyline" guy.
>>
Bret Hart - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:51:30 EST ID:9CTGIug+ No.5938806 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Cody was one of those guys in the early 10's. Seemed he could do nothing wrong with gimmicks like Dashing/Undashing and the whole Goldust tag team. He was lauded as a great worker who was being buried in the midcard. Fast forward to nowadays and he's not nearly loved as much. You could probably say that it's because he excelled at gimmicks, and his current persona isn't as much as a gimmick as when he was in WWE. He also has stagnated in quality, hen people thought he had more potential, he really was doing his absolute best, and now that he's out of WWE, there are people much, much better than him. He also seems like the kind of guy that spelt his own doom, with the infamous @PrinceCGR insider terms tweets.

He was an alright guy who people thought was hiding an excellent performer.
>>
Cassandro - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:05:28 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5938815 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938517

I don't like using the word "mark", but this.

Please watch Jon Moxley in CZW and DGUSA.

Most notably Moxley's match against Bryan Danielson and his feud with Jimmy Jacobs in DGUSA. That I Quit match with Jimmy was really good and gave us this spot, which I need to re-GIF in better quality.

Moxley was never the best guy in the ring, he was solid but never outstanding. But man, he was INCREDIBLE at cutting promos and when the story called for it, he could really pull out a strong performance.
>>
Bret Hart - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:05:41 EST ID:9CTGIug+ No.5938816 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938806
Actually, now that I think of it, his Rhodes Scholars partner Damien Sandow had this happen to him too. Good gimmick wrestler that was over as fuck, got released to major outcry and then became disliked for not doing the things that got him over and not actually being that great. Nobody can forget that one weird time where /wooo/ obsessed over how fat the newly dubbed "Aron Rex" was getting. Of course, Cody certainly has done a lot more post-WWE than Sandow, but they're certainly not tthe stars that we had envisioned back then.
>>
Elix Skipper - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:07:26 EST ID:zpMDDu4C No.5938819 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938582
I made that graphic.
He's been perpetually disappointing.
>>
Generalissimo Takada - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:17:02 EST ID:KjT3bdTw No.5938830 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938518
Correct me if im wrong but his downfall happened around the time Nash coined the term vanilla midget right? I remember
wreslters like him and rodericks stock fell even more when posters agreed and began to be associating them with this term? Or was he washed up even before this?
>>
Bret Hart - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:20:24 EST ID:9CTGIug+ No.5938836 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938830
Nash coined the term 'vanilla midget' waaay before the Clone Wars iirc.
>>
Deuce - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:06:05 EST ID:p+GdtWiz No.5938863 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938508

I am thinking Finn Balor will be one
>>
Big John Studd - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:09:54 EST ID:sYpk006z No.5938865 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938830

Nash was killing Benoit and Guerrero "vanilla midgets" in 1996
>>
Terry Taylor - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:10:54 EST ID:szAGjBCt No.5938866 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938830
Vanilla midget was originally coined to refer to guys like Benoit and Malenko, so it's been around for a while. Davey's stock fell when ROH decided to build the entire company around him and guys that looked and wrestled more or less exactly like him
>>
Big John Studd - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:13:19 EST ID:sYpk006z No.5938867 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938865

*calling *1998

Wow.
>>
Bruiser Brody - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:15:19 EST ID:dYhrmb6W No.5938869 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938830
How fucking old are you?! Nash coined the term "vanilla midget" back in the late '90s (some say it was while he was WCW Booker, but that's not confirmed) when talking about guys like Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, etc who he claimed had no personality and were too small to be main eventers.

Just because you first heard of the term in 2010 doesn't mean he first coined it then.
>>
David Von Erich - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:18:35 EST ID:34V56gn0 No.5938872 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938830
>washed up

FFS, can you please at least show some objectivity? The Wolves in TNA were booked as probably the most strongest tag team of the last decade and they pretty much stole the show each time, and had an acclaimed series with the Hardys and a decent feud with each other and Decay. Davey also picked up the CZW and Defy titles.

I get that most people see WWE as the be all and end all, but dude has had a real full career and at no point during it was "washed up".
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:29:17 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938877 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938806
I don't ever remember him having that much fan fare. Yeah he had some fans but I don't think anyone was really seeing superstar potential in him.

>>5938816
Yeah the IWC overrated him way too much. He was a fun gimmick guy and nothing more. I was disappointed when he won MITB because he just wasn't good enough to be a world champion.


>>5938830
You're probably thinking of Kevin Steen's "Jiu Jitsu Jackoff" banter.
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 17:41:57 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938883 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938872
He didn't have a bad career but it's nothing compared to what he could have done. He should have been a world champion and a household name.
>>
Tursas - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:15:34 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5938909 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938883
> He should have been a world champion
He was
>and a household name.
It's [current year]. No wrestler's a household name. At best you've got movie stars who have also wrestled.
>>
David Von Erich - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:17:59 EST ID:34V56gn0 No.5938912 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938883
exactly how many wrestlers have become household names over the last decade?

I mean if you're going to argue that he could have been booked better then, yeah that applies to everyone. But I find it quite sad that fans who have never taken a bump in their lives are picking over people like Richards and McGuiness and saying they had shit careers because they never "made it" in WWE. It's disrespectful as fuck. No wonder Colt Cabana has a stick up his ass about it.
>>
Bruiser Brody - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:31:23 EST ID:dYhrmb6W No.5938919 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938909
Seriously. CM Punk was the hottest thing in wrestling in 2011. When he was WWE Champion, a security guard at Madison Square Garden stopped him because they thought he was a fan. Wrestling is still far from popular. To most people, pro wrestling isn't much more popular than stuff like Monster Trucks or professional rodeo.
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:42:32 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938924 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938912
What does taking a bump have to do with anything? lmao
>>
Prince Nana - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:44:52 EST ID:M1ahJWky No.5938925 Ignore Report Quick Reply
name someone who

1)has never wrestled for WWE or NJPW but has had a great career in wrestling

2)has wrestled for WWE but never won the World title but has had a great career in wrestling.
>>
StannisTheMannis !/R33EULsds - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:46:15 EST ID:cX4knbwY No.5938926 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925
Curt Hennig
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Jolly Roger - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:51:26 EST ID:IYrGGiwC No.5938931 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925
im guessing you are excluding lucha guys for your argument
>>
Psycho Clown - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:56:26 EST ID:9x07PfKD No.5938933 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938508

It REALLY doesn't help that almost literally all of his 2017 was spent being a comedy guy who couldn't really rip into anyone in a feud seriously.

That said, I also REALLY think way too much got made out of his appearance on Austin's podcast. That was the internet having never heard Ambrose on a podcast before and not knowing just how relatively sedate he is. And the fucker even admitted he thought Brock wasn't willing to do shit, which nowadays, you NEVER hear someone take someone to task like that publicly.

I thought his AJ Styles feud and matches were fantastic (Bryan Alvarez had this weird obsession thinking he wasn't pulling his weight that really nobody else had); the promos for the ZIggler feud were good, but then that was one of the most confusing matches I've ever seen WWE produce.
>>
Virgil - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:57:40 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938935 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925

First is hard to answer because WWE seems to get their hands on everyone at some point. I don't believe Kenta Kobashi ever wrestled for WWE or NJPW though and he is recognized as an all time great. Abyss is a guy who didn't ever sign with either and wasn't particularly talented but has carved out a decade + career for himself.

The 2nd one has too many to mention. Goldust has had a decades long career and made a lot of money. For a guy of his talent level that's exceeding expectations. Same goes for Heath Slater who isn't particularly talented but has carved out a nice niche for himself.
>>
Val Venis - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:04:18 EST ID:wUdU3p7F No.5938939 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938730
No.

All I really remember was him going to TNA and then getting caught with drugs for asking for a deeper spoon.
>>
Christopher Daniels - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:04:20 EST ID:9x07PfKD No.5938940 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I don't even know why, but this was my first thought?

I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing, but it did come to mind.
>>
Ivory - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:08:17 EST ID:M1ahJWky No.5938941 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938935
Well to make it easier someone who spent most of their career not in WWE.
>>
Jamie Noble - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:11:11 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5938942 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925

Mike Quackenbush
Chuck Taylor (I guess he's disqualified after World Tag League)
Chris Hero (he could have retired pre-NXT and would've still had an incredible career)

I know I'm gonna get the lame "they're totally not the same person XD" joke, but El Generico is legendary and Sami Zayn is a shell of his former self. Generico could have never left to go to WWE and he would have been better off. You could say this about almost everyone. He kind of ruined his legacy by not only being poorly booked as Sami Zayn, but also giving political opinions and breaking kayfabe on Twitter. I hope UltraMantis Black never unmasks since his career is over.

I mean really, Hero, Claudio, Generico, Bryan, Steen, Moxley could have all retired instead of going to WWE and their careers would have gone down as being great right then and there. I think if PAC, Brodie Lee and Drew Gulak could've reached that status if they had more time, but they never really got to that level.

Everyone I mentioned with the exception of Bryan (and Hero because he hasn't had a real chance to be ruined yet) has had their careers go downhill since going to WWE and their run there is a bit of an asterisk.
>>
Big John Studd - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:12:09 EST ID:sYpk006z No.5938945 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925

>All four pillars
>Jake "The Snake" Roberts
>Vader
>Ron Simmons
>Sting
>Christopher Daniels

Within seconds. C'mon, man
>>
Lance Bravado - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:15:29 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5938946 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938942
>Generico could have never left to go to WWE and he would have been better off.
By what metric?
>He kind of ruined his legacy
Again; how are you quanitfying this?
>but also giving political opinions and breaking kayfabe on Twitter.
Y'know what, never mind. You deserve to be disappointed.
>>
Toshie Uematsu - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:15:38 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938947 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938939

There was a brief moment when Tomko was over with the fans. It was when TNA turned AJ Styles into a comedic relief lackey for Kurt Angle known as "Prince AJ". Tomko played the straight man to AJ's character and the two had some pretty good tag team matches.
>>
Lance Bravado - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:16:59 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5938948 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938945
>>
Akira Tozawa - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:18:26 EST ID:k97U2OvO No.5938949 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938940
they got hyped to hell in nxt but proceeded to flop magnificently on the main roster. it's beautiful.
>>
Lance Bravado - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:20:52 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5938951 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938931
This guy too.
Shame on you Nana. SHAME!
>>
Jamie Noble - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:22:31 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5938952 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938946

>By what metric?

Would've continued to have great matches on a consistent basis without terrible booking ruining him. On top of that, he would've been able to keep the gimmick that got him over instead of being himself.

It would be like if Jushin Liger went to WWE after years of being Jushin Liger and they took his mask off, gave him some random name and told him to be more like his real life personality.

>Again; how are you quanitfying this?

See above. Instead of continuing his legacy of being one of the absolute greatest wrestlers for his time who consistently put on great matches everywhere he went, he'll be the guy that was great but then took a chance on WWE and was never quite as good as he was prior as a result of being watered down and a drastic gimmick change.
>>
Val Venis - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:34:29 EST ID:wUdU3p7F No.5938958 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925
El Santo immediately comes to mind for the first one.
>>
Big John Studd - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:34:43 EST ID:sYpk006z No.5938959 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938949

I wouldn't call Sasha a "flop." She's just been cooled off because they're fully behind Alexa and possibly Rousey atm.

Bayley is just a disaster, though.
>>
Toshie Uematsu - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:39:34 EST ID:sGiabiVQ No.5938962 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938942
> Hero
The book is still open for him. It seems like his ultimate goal is to be a WWE star yet I don't think they'll ever really fully embrace him because of his body. Regardless of what happens he's had a good career though. Something like an NXT, ROH, or midcard WWE title would really cap it off though.

> Generico
Yeah Sami Zayn has hurt him. If/when he goes back to the indies he's going to be more over than ever though and will be able to work as either Generico or Zayn. Its hard to say if he's had a good career though because its hard to gauge his potential.

> Moxley
You're really overrating his indie work. If he retired instead of going to the WWE most people would have forgot about him already and he definitely wouldn't have had a good career. He wasn't even very well known on the indies and had just started really breaking out when the WWE signed him.

> Claudio
With as talented he is it would have been a shame if he never went to the E and made the big bucks. It would have been considered a failure if he retired in the indies.

> Daniel Bryan and Steen
Yes, they would have been considered to have great careers if they retires on the indies, but that is because absolutely no one expected them to even go to the WWE, much less suceed there. People forget that it was shocking that the WWE hired Bryan Danielson in the first place and the majority of people thought he would end up being buried as nothing but a cruiserweight jobber. Steen and Danielson exceeded all expectations and if in 2005 you told someone that they would go on to become WWE, I-C, and USA champions they would have told you that you're crazy.
>>
Ivory - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:42:13 EST ID:M1ahJWky No.5938964 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938945
so Post MNW period Christopher Daniels is the only western wrestler not to work for WWE that we can say had a good career?

my point is that there are loads of wrestlers who had great careers outside the wwe in the 21s century

Sting, Daniels, Lethal, Young, Styles, Roode, Joe, (so these guys recently signed but WWE didn't "make" their careers) Edwards, Richards, Necro Butcher, Shelley, Young Bucks, Abyss, McGuiness, Quack, Aries,

all of them have had great wrestling careers outside the wwe.
>>
Jamie Noble - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:49:26 EST ID:qfX5xSjT No.5938967 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938962

Well I'll touch on Moxley and just say that it doesn't really matter how many people saw him. Everyone that did see him was touting his work. I'll admit, he was never the best wrestler as I mentioned here >>5938815, but he was really intriguing. I mean I wouldn't call his career legendary, but I don't think great is that farfetched.

I disagree about Claudio. He won titles everywhere he went except for NOAH, which probably would've happened had he and Hero committed. He won tag titles in CZW and ROH, was part of one of the best tag teams we've seen in the 2000s with Hero. He was PWG champion and his reign would've lasted longer had he not signed during the reign. Not to mention his career in CHIKARA and him being one of the top guys in that promotion from 2005 through 2011. By the time he left, he was such a necessary part of that show that I remember a lot of fans losing interest in CHIKARA because the top heel was leaving. I really think Claudio would've continued to flourish had he not signed. Gosh, imagine Claudio having matches against Matt Riddle, Timothy Thatcher, ZSJ and Drew Gulak.
>>
Electroshock - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:50:29 EST ID:N5OJXAeK No.5938970 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938940
The next female John Cena
>>
Lance Bravado - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:49:37 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939019 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938967
>I really think Claudio would've continued to flourish had he not signed.
See I can get simply not liking how a lot of guys "changed" upon getting to WWE but Claudio is Exhibit fuckin' A for the defense. The match quality he's put out these past few years is insane, I'd argue better on average than his indie work. And apparently match quality is all that objectively matters by this train of logic, so he evidently IS flourishing.
>>
StannisTheMannis !/R33EULsds - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 21:10:06 EST ID:cX4knbwY No.5939033 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939019
I'll cosign that. I'll say this again, too:
The Bar > KoW. Fight me.
>>
Lex Luger - Sat, 13 Jan 2018 22:48:04 EST ID:hol38qY/ No.5939088 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938909
>>5938883
>exactly how many wrestlers have become household names over the last decade?
Kenny Omega. No seriously, I truly believe this. At least for indie level.
>>
Bobby Eaton - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 01:03:13 EST ID:EJ1v9FXH No.5939163 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938585
Are you forgetting how much of a micro-managing megalomaniacal control freak Vince is?
>>
Husky Harris - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 03:19:59 EST ID:N0Z3gzAI No.5939205 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939088
While Kenny's stock has risen dramatically over the last few years, he is not a household name. The average RAW fan still has no clue who the guy is. Most lower card WWE guys have more twitter followers than him.
>>
Mabel - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 03:22:41 EST ID:qBN6Rx+i No.5939206 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939205
Yeah but Rosanne knows who he is
>>
Jay Lethal - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 03:29:25 EST ID:V8OanS5J No.5939208 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938654
>hen, after a year or two, WWE tries to elevate them back to the main event and is shocked that the audience has grown apathetic

Or shocked that after putting two world titles on him, he's caught toking up with Sabu.
>>
Kaz Hayashi - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 03:52:15 EST ID:UMtrbWKi No.5939212 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939205
How do you know what the average WWE fan knows? Can you show me proof of the twitter followers thing? Not disputing. I just wanna see.
>>
Lance Bravado - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 04:31:09 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939221 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939088
>At least for indie level.
So not a household name then.
>>
Tinieblas Jr. - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 04:36:59 EST ID:fI9PPpyL No.5939224 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5938508
>False Prophet
>>
Zardoz - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 05:15:14 EST ID:ymFXau95 No.5939236 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938962
It's still crazy to me that they signed Kevin Owens. I never would have expected WWE to care about bringing him in. I love that's he's had so much success.
>>
El Oriental - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 05:34:06 EST ID:ig0GzzZA No.5939243 Ignore Report Quick Reply
nah Dean is amazing, it's the WWE that's mediocre
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Husky Harris - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 06:12:34 EST ID:N0Z3gzAI No.5939253 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939212
Just a random sampling here.

John Cena - 10.9 million followers
Randy Orton 5.8 million followers
Sheamus - 4.8 million Followers
Chris Jericho 3.4 million
Seth Rollins - 2.9 million
The Miz - 2.9 million
R-Truth - 1.6 million
Matt Hardy 1.4 million
Cesaro - 1.5 million
Becky Lynch - 1.1 million
Kevin Owens - 1.1 million
Bray Wyatt - 1.1 million
Finn Balor - 1 million
Bayley - 987k
Sami Zayn - 975k
Mickie James - 830k
AJ Styles - 822k
Alexa Bliss - 780k
Alicia Fox - 727k
Heath Slater - 676k
Neville - 630k
Curtis Axel - 624k
Samoa Joe - 606k
Enzo Amore - 586k
Fandango - 573k
Xavier Woods - 553k
Rusev - 538k
Curt Hawkins - 375k
Bobby Roode - 354k
Baron Corbin - 333k
Jinder Mahal - 269k
Kalisto - 248k
Jason Jordan - 233k
..............................................
Kenny Omega - 229k
...............................................
Shelton Benjamin - 224k
Braun Strowman - 210k
Mojo Rawley - 166k
Hideo Itami - 158k
Big Cass - 150k
Apollo Crews - 148k
Rich Swann - 82k
Noam Dar - 73k
Brian Kendrck - 73k
>>
Gorgeous George - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 06:22:18 EST ID:HgB9cxq7 No.5939254 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939253
The fact that Sheamus has 1.4 million more followers than Jericho should show you that Twitter followers aren't really accurate at portraying anything
>>
Bobby Eaton - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 06:26:15 EST ID:EJ1v9FXH No.5939257 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939253
So how many of those are actual active people and not just clickfarms or robots?
>>
Sirelda - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 07:13:57 EST ID:MBjQ943b No.5939264 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939253
I didn't even know Braun had a twitter. Do they even display it?

randall deserves more, his twitter is fucking great
>>
Lance Bravado - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 10:13:27 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939307 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939254
Or maybe that you severely underestimate the markdom of the internet.
>>
Nevaeh - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 10:48:52 EST ID:dYhrmb6W No.5939323 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938945
Jake Roberts, Vader, and Christopher Daniels definitely wrestled for New Japan. Vader was IWGP Heavyweight Champion three times. One of his reigns was over a year long!

I'm pretty sure Sting wrestled at a few NJPW shows too, but that was probably when NJPW and WCW had that talent trade agreement, so maybe that doesn't count.
>>
Kid Kash - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:01:06 EST ID:L8HzJTCa No.5939362 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938518
I've always heard he's a massive douche but don't really know much about that. What are some of the examples of his behavior that led to that reputation? Didn't he have beef with O'Reilly and Fish or something?
>>
Vader - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:08:57 EST ID:UdQAJooI No.5939364 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939323
Sting worked All Japan in the 80s iirc
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Magnus - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:42:57 EST ID:OCpI2Gwn No.5939388 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938653
WWE just hated him so much, for whatever reason.
They literally took the MITB off of him the day BEFORE he was booked to win the title saying he was injured.
The next week, they said their results were wrong and he wasn't actually hurt. You could tell he stopped really caring about the business after that.
>>
Big John Studd - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:29:39 EST ID:sYpk006z No.5939410 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939323

There were two sets of criteria and everyone I mentioned matches one of the two
>>
Nevaeh - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:38:41 EST ID:dYhrmb6W No.5939420 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925
Scenario 1 is a lot harder to fit since WWE more or less has a monopoly on the national US scene. Tons of people fit Scenario 2, depending on what you define as a "great career". Hell, most of WWE's Hall of Fame never won the WWE World title.

As for people that never wrested in WWE or NJPW but still had good careers, Abyss comes to mind.
>>
Cactus Jack - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:49:54 EST ID:FZALZpTn No.5939433 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Paul Burchill, Uhaa Nation, Peter Kaasa
All three had a period where they were THE next big guy to look out for on the indies. Like HOLY SHIT GET READY FOR THIS GUY THE GAME IS ABOUT TO CHANGE FOREVER level hype on all three.
Burchill got saddled with shitty gimmicks (in b4 "fuck you I liked the pirate". It killed his career.) Apollo is currently in the middle of the biggest fade to nothing in the history of professional wrestling. Kaasa got the injury.

Also, nobody thought he was the next megastar face of a new generation, but Mr. Wrestling Nick Dinsmore belongs on the Mt. Rushmore of wasted talent just for the spectacle alone.
>>
Lance Bravado - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 13:58:39 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939448 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939362
Ah geez there's a laundry list.
Put it this way: he sticks to his guns. He's hella loyal to his friends and 'great once you get to know him', but if somebody offends him they're getting a damn receipt. The most egregious example is almost certainly the whole "Team Bandit" fiasco, when he responded to a disrespectful indie promoter by taking the gate money, leaving before his match & wiring it back to him the next day once he'd 'made his point'.
Also he takes himself mega-seriously. Like, Low Ki seriously. Arguably worse, since he ended up with like double the attention & adulation Low Ki did during his peak. I think he got it into his head that winning the ROH Title made him representative for the entire indie scene, so he changed his attire/entrance/mannerisms/moveset to be what to him must have seemed more respectable but to everyone else was just more pretentious. Motherfucker spent a good year ending every single match with a ~5 minute promo about how great [losing opponent] was and how cool the [local promotion] fans were and how his [martial art]-based style will carry this industry into the future blah blah blah echhhhh.
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StannisTheMannis !/R33EULsds - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:04:58 EST ID:DH+A3TAa No.5939452 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939433
Always depresses me.
>>
Cactus Jack - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:06:16 EST ID:FZALZpTn No.5939453 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939433
I just realized I missed an opportunity for a joke.
"If they were to make a monument to wasted potential, they would have to call it Mt. Dinsmore"

There we go.
>>
Larry Zbyszko - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:17:00 EST ID:45JLwn/H No.5939457 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939433
You can throw Low Ki and Mistico/Sin Cara in here, people thought they would be huge.
>>
El Generico - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:20:04 EST ID:0BWQMVm0 No.5939462 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5938925
Rick fucking Rude
>>
Cactus Jack - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:26:12 EST ID:FZALZpTn No.5939466 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939457
Well, Mistico WAS huge in Mexico. Closest thing to a 2000s era Konnan or Vampiro. Maybe in Mexico you can get away with botching spots constantly because you don't have micromanager mcmahon scrutinizing everything and making sure every match is perfect. This is a guy who fired Colt Cabana for selling the Samoan Spike "wrong" and "forcing" a re-shoot.
>>
British Bulldog - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:29:44 EST ID:sr1dgQYF No.5939471 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939466
>Mistico botched spots in mexico
You know they work lucha in mexico right.
>>
Cactus Jack - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:40:03 EST ID:FZALZpTn No.5939476 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939471
What I'm saying is that, perhaps, the botches are overlooked because they happen more often when guys are doing springboards and corkscrews all over the place. They are commonplace so they aren't focused on. In VinceWorld, however, a guy's foot slips off the top rope and he's met backstage by a red faced 70 year old man screaming and berating them for ruining the show who has then lost faith in them as a performer and has already decided to start using their momentum to get someone more dependable over.
>>
Kotenks !!rbabk2zH - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 15:02:02 EST ID:V5teRIpo No.5939489 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Ziggler. I loved the guy because he wrestled with passion. The way he bumped showed that he was willing to put his body on the line for performances. Stupidly at times. I remember him going from golf caddy, and then the Spirit Squad and finally become Ziggler. He had good matches and always seemed to be on cusp of greatness. He only needed to put it all together by finding out his gimmick. His version of Stone Cold, the Rock, Y2J, The Heart-break Kid. But he never did. They tried to help him with Vickie, AJ and Big E, changing his hair-color, changing his pants, turning him face, giving him titles, but he never quite got there. He never put it all together.
>>
Road Warrior Hawk - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 15:09:13 EST ID:RK/o445P No.5939496 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939476
>fucking shit up live
>was moved to smackdown to fuck shit up on tape
>fucking himself up
>fucking other talent up
>no improvement during his run whatsoever, same mistakes over and over again
>i-it's vince's fault!

You probably wonder why Vince didn't find something more comfortable to rent. Probably because it was free.
>>
Lance Bravado - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:05:14 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939527 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5939466
Cara botched everything because he was a sanctimonious prick who expected everyone else to learn Spanish and unlearn wrestling just to accommodate him. Seriously, "why would they hire a luchador if they didn't want lucha-style matches " was a quote from shortly after his firing. As if the years of training & instinct can be inverted on the flip of a switch, or a non-Mexican audience would even appreciate Mexican match psychology.
>>5939471
And good lucha doesn't look botchy. If anything there's MORE scrutiny than anywhere else, since moral alignment's defined by skill. Can't speak for his pre-WWE career, but to get as over as he presumably performed flawlessly. Since limping back below the border he's been HOT G A R B A G E. The botch curse followed him home, he's simply not cut out for the tecnico game anymore.
>>5939476
Not on the level he was on. When you do springboards & corckscrews as often as CMLL stars do they become as second nature as a worked punch or a safe bodyslam. Fuck-ups are astoundingly rare given the context and when they do crop up the crowd lets them know HARRRRRRD. Top tecnicos will like current Mistico here will do shit like this that they HAVE to ace 100% of the time or else.
>>
Chiva IV - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:58:22 EST ID:llgKCyfW No.5939548 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939527
>As if the years of training & instinct can be inverted on the flip of a switch, or a non-Mexican audience would even appreciate Mexican match psychology.
mexican wrestlers work in NJPW all the time and they all did just fine.

sin cara's problem is that the WWE wants everyone to work their specific style of wrestling
>>
Lance Bravado - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:04:32 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939548
Mexican wrestlers work in NJPW in a way NJPW wrestlers are familiar with & can respond to. They don't expect Chaos midcarders to start working the other side of the body or basing for toritos.
>>
Husky Harris - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:27:04 EST ID:N0Z3gzAI No.5939561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939448
To expand on this with some bullet points
> Has reportedly refused to put people over.
> Cheated on multiple different wives.
> Admitted to trying to work so fast that it'd make Kevin Owens/Steen gas and look bad
> Admitted to purposely being stiff as fuck, which made him look edgy.
> He used to no-sell things to a ridiculous level and people hated him for it. I remember him once no selling a turnbuckle power bomb.
> He was friends with Tony Kozina and Kozina shoot beat up a 17 year old kid in the ring because of "disrespect".
> Reportedly acts like he's better than everyone else backstage.
> Doesn't even like wrestling so that alienates him from fans
> as a testament to his bad attitude he has burned the bridge to essentially every company he has ever worked in.
> He and Eddie would have got WWE jobs but a botch happened in the match and they were told to bring it home due to injury, Davey ignored the call from the back and thus he was never given a contract.
> ROH won't deal with him anymore because he's a "pathological liar"
> no showed at events he was advertised on multiple times
> Had such a bad reputation that TNA didn't even want him, they only took him because they wanted Eddie and Eddie wouldn't come without Davey.
> Somehow managed to get himself blackballed by the entire country of Japan
> "The Davey Richards Special"
> almost killed Paul London
> Has had almost as many false retirements as Terry Funk
>>
Lance Bravado - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:41:11 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939569 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939561
The DR Special is wrestlekino shut yer whore mouth.
Also the London one t'aint fair. It was a botch, botches happen, Paul's just as at fault for agreeing to the spot (presuming it wasn't his idea in the first place). It's not like you're sorely lacking points already.
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Jay Lethal - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:06:11 EST ID:3/mfnZ9V No.5939584 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Deano is one of the few big modern era faces to not get the shit booed out of him on a consistent basis so I'd consider that more than mediocre. Sure he doesn't have great matches but I don't really care about that, though WWE could really adapt to his natural more old school style instead of forcing him to do typical back and forth move exchange lucharesu shit which he isn't the best at.
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Akeem - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:15:38 EST ID:3v2cKILO No.5939589 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939033
I say it all the time, but if The Bar were on the indies or anywhere but WWE they would be very very well regarded
>>
Husky Harris - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:26:36 EST ID:N0Z3gzAI No.5939596 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939569
It shouldn't even be the Davey Richards Special. Ultimate Warrior was doing it long before Davey.
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Alberto Del Rio - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:31:18 EST ID:U3yYrf7I No.5939600 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939589
they're great.
>>
Sumie Sakai - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 19:58:25 EST ID:M1ahJWky No.5939634 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939561
wow, he was friends with someone who did a bad thing?

booooooo!
>>
British Bulldog - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:57:09 EST ID:0z2eH/4r No.5939667 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939634
I think this point should be pontificated a bit more, hopefully someone with a better knowledge of specifics about than what I can offer here but Kozina has been a horrible dude from most accounts that I've heard about & he's Davey's ride or die so it speaks volumes that Davey would continue to associate & continue to go to bat for someone like Kozina who has done far more negative than positive to any place he's ever been brought into.
I'll put it to you this way, look at Eddie "Eddie Edwards" Edwards & Kyle O'Reily once they finally peaced out from Davey & Kozina.
>>
Elektra - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:22:24 EST ID:3/mfnZ9V No.5939682 Ignore Report Quick Reply
What's the DR special?
>>
Kyle O'Reilly - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:48:51 EST ID:N0Z3gzAI No.5939692 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939682
Getting yourself booked in a prominent position and then refusing to show up unless they give you more money. Davey pulled this move on numerous small indies that were advertising him as their big star on shows then at the last minute he'd refuse to show up unless they gave him more money.

Davey's most scummy move though has to be what he did to Futureshock wrestling. Davey was wrestling their champion Jack Gallagher and Jack went down with an injury, Davey improvised and pinned him to win the belt when the original plan was for Davey to lose. Davey then left the country and held the championship for ransom after promising that he'd come back and drop the title. He upped his price after the fact and was wanting some ridiculous number that the promoter couldn't afford.
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Duke Droese - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:51:47 EST ID:qpB7mOMV No.5939694 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939692

Wow, what a shit head.
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Carlos Cabrera - Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:39:28 EST ID:tKYjnO78 No.5939714 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939694

Davey Richards is the biggest Mark for himself, worse than Sasha Banks.
>>
Maven - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 03:13:00 EST ID:EJ1v9FXH No.5939771 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939489
Dolph had it all together in 2013.

And then WWE took his WHC away the first opportunity they had for ANOTHER failed Alberto reign.
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Johnny Curtis - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 06:57:30 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939813 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939682
>>5939692
...Ah, I thought you were referring to one of his wacky combo super moves.
Most likely the one Seffer stole.
>Jack went down with an injury, Davey improvised and pinned him to win the belt when the original plan was for Davey to lose.
wew lad I never heard that part.
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Domino - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:32:04 EST ID:ig0GzzZA No.5939819 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Davey Richards rules and the feds he fucked about didn't deserve him anyway
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Duke Droese - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:42:36 EST ID:qpB7mOMV No.5939821 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5939819
They asked him to come on so everyone invovled can make money and is a dick to them, yet they didn't deserve him.

He could have said "no" instead of screwing over his employers. It's not cool to be a rebel like that, it's being a dick.
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Johnny Curtis - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:51:45 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939826 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5939634
>>5939667
I was meant to add it to my list but totally forgot. IIRC it happened the very same weekend as the Team Bandit thing, so Davey got a double helping of shit that day.
Basically Davey's sensei Tony Kozina & young-boi Kyle O'Reilly both found themselves needing a place to live at the same time, so his home became a makeshift dojo. They trained together, traveled together, got booked together under the brand "Team Ambition", picked up another youngboi somewhere along the line who's name I forget (presumably he went nowhere). One weekend they were booked in Iowa & Tony being the third wheel got thrown some rookie kid who was doing wrestling for a lark. Tony cut a promo before the match saying that he didn't approve of social media posts the kid'd made about "being a fake wrestler lol" and intended to teach him respect for the profession. Cue several minutes of stiffing, stretching & shooting, punctuated by a few piledrivers (which everyone assumed were legit too & may not've actually been, but he'd still beaten up a minor by that point regardless).
I think they intended to go home after that show but were approached by another local promoter in attendance who convinced them to stick around one more day & work his indie the following night. So they bought rooms, food, gas etc., showed up to a crowd of like 20 people & got low-balled by the promoter for 'not drawing'. So as soon as he left the room to talk to someone Davey snatched the amount he was promised from the lockeroom counter and told his clique to get in the fuckin' car.
The bit I & Husky both forgot to mention was the actual use of "Team Bandit". After Kyle had blogged some increasingly desperate rants trying to exasperatedly justify his involvement and Davey had let everybody know he'd sent the money back as he'd allegedly always intended, the two of them took advantage of the publicity & started going by that name instead. "Piss us of and we'll stand you up, #OUTLAWLIFE" became their tweaked heel gimmick for small one-off indie shows. And a PWG booking or two, IIRC.
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Sara Del Rey - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:58:05 EST ID:3DJXLeQn No.5939831 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939826
This incident was also when Kyle O'Reilly started to purposely distance himself from Davey. They were basically inseparable until Davey became such a toxic name that Kyle was forced to distance himself from him if he wanted to have a career.
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Johnny Curtis - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:58:23 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939832 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Also I just remembered after posting that the whole fiasco is where this came from. TopKek.
Seriously tho I miss him.
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Johnny Curtis - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 08:09:22 EST ID:0V/yhfUT No.5939836 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5939831
Funnily enough they were already splitting. Kyle'd turned on him in ROH a month or two beforehand.
As I see it Kyle was ready to leave the nest and carve his own path anyway. This just provided a timely extra impetus. By the end of the year he'd reconnected with Bobby Fish to form reDRagon and throughout the following year he'd become possessed by a determination to finally pin/tap Davey. Which he eventually did, in a Hammerstein main event for a title no less, so I'm presuming they still remained friends through it all (unless I missed a dirtsheet somewhere along the line).
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Anthony Nese - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 09:40:23 EST ID:kZWaWoyr No.5939877 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939433
The pirate gimmick didn't kill his career, idiot. WWE creative did.

>Pirate of the caribbean? What's that? DROP THE GIMMICK, DAMMIT
>he's gonna be in an incest angle!
>oh, it's PG, his sister can only be his manager
from then on, it was "meh"
>>
Cheex - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 10:32:48 EST ID:x4/j//y+ No.5939910 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939388
I'm actually impressed at how that got more and more wrong as it went on.

They loved him. They had him feud with Taker within six months of him coming up and pushed him steady upwards from there until MitB. Then he had a hematoma that everyone thought was a more serious shoulder injury. They needed the belt off Taker because he was hurt too, so Edge jumped brands because plans were fucked so bad.

He wrestled for two years there after that, and then went to TNA for years.

He never stopped caring, he just always sucked and was one-dimensional in WWE, and then somehow became zero dimensional when he decided to make his gimmick "idk im an asshole."
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Cheex - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 11:47:15 EST ID:x4/j//y+ No.5939964 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939476
What a stretch to blame that on Vince. Take off your "le smark" hat holy shit.

OG Sin Cara had zero memorable matches or feuds because he blew high spots literally every match, which caused fans to not care about him. Nothing he did looked impressive and instead he came off like a goofy asshole who actually hurt himself jumping over the top rope. Not landing on the floor, jumping over the rope.

Which is actually a perfect metaphor for that whole run, an earnest but clumsy effort to get over that failed.
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GENTARO - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:37:40 EST ID:/I6QpOie No.5940091 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5939877
>The pirate gimmick didn't kill his career, idiot. WWE creative did.
Can't be said enough.
That pirate gimmick caught fire right away and as usual WWE's booking was offended at unintended success and promptly diarrhea-ed all over the situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHUgC1Ynckg
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Owen Fart - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:40:07 EST ID:zwoGFhDe No.5940096 Report Quick Reply
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>>5939910

being a fan of ken anderson in the past is a painful thing to think about sometimes
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GENTARO - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:47:59 EST ID:/I6QpOie No.5940110 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939433
>Uhaa Nation

Did he even have a gimmick in the indies?
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C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:53:14 EST ID:BBLm05/s No.5940117 Report Quick Reply
>>5940091
I thought he had suffered a knee injury?

>>5940110
Yeah he did.
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Low Ki - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 18:23:52 EST ID:U13dhfF/ No.5940267 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>5939910
Anderson on Smackdown having a JBL style heel run with the title in 07 would have been absolute wrestlekino.
>>
Sirelda - Mon, 15 Jan 2018 20:25:52 EST ID:wyd5W6Pf No.5940389 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>5940096
Plus he just looked too much like that guy from Scrubs


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