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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated April 10)

Now Playing on /1701/tube -

Did anyone actually watch/like Babylon 5? Ignore Report Reply
Herbert Rossoff - Mon, 14 May 2018 12:13:30 EST ID:NSyoVkIK No.64546
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I know this is a Star Trek board. But I see this series brought up often here and I did myself try to watch it. I'm not one of those "durr only Star Trek" people- I like a good *story.* Wherever is comes from.

More to the point- did anyone actually watch Babylon 5? I seriously tried to but the acting is so bad. And the production value and CGI so terrible that it was at times for me unwatchable. The story that I've read in the past on the various Wiki entries and what not make the Shadow Conflict thing seem interesting! But watching it appears to be such a god dam slog that I cannot bring myself to watch all of it...
Spock - Mon, 14 May 2018 13:50:47 EST ID:pekGfeeU No.64547 Ignore Report Reply
you are me
i tried it multiple times and dropped it multiple times for the same reasons
Lt. Cmdr. Dexter Remmick - Mon, 14 May 2018 17:03:32 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64555 Ignore Report Reply
Completely skip season 1, come back to it afterward.
For that matter, skip the last season too.

Otherwise, a show equal to DS9 with some of the best Sci-Fi acting until BSG reboot (and then Fringe).
Jaro Essa - Mon, 14 May 2018 18:19:10 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64556 Ignore Report Reply
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Early on, the production values and acting (??) may bother but before long the excellent writing and dialogue totally make you look past the flaws and they even become endearing. It obviously hasn't aged well in terms of production value but besides that it's timeless. It's a perfectly written show. No other show, let alone a sci fi show, has had that depth on so many levels and been so perfectly executed story wise.
Deanna Troi - Mon, 14 May 2018 18:41:58 EST ID:+gPRLRG+ No.64557 Ignore Report Reply
It was on par with Trek with me when I was a kid, but kid's are stupid. Haven't really watched it since.
Leonard McCoy - Mon, 14 May 2018 19:25:43 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.64559 Ignore Report Reply
I've seen it at least a dozen times. Make sure you watch the JMS viewing order. The first film and season are slow but important and it really build from there. Every season gets better and better until the end of S4 but there is still some good stuff in S5. The other films and spin-offs are decent, nothing great but they are good world building and often continue the story.
Broik - Mon, 14 May 2018 19:58:26 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64560 Ignore Report Reply
season 2 starts with them bringing Captain Tron up to speed
Guinan - Mon, 14 May 2018 20:13:30 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64561 Ignore Report Reply
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I can't find the watch list I had.. but basically there's a really streamlined way to watch it and cut out the filler episodes. My pic is semirelated but don't ever watch crusade or call to arms, ever. So bad.
Tiron - Tue, 15 May 2018 01:33:55 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64562 Ignore Report Reply
I couldn't watch crusade it was bad
Hoshi Sato - Tue, 15 May 2018 13:10:34 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64571 Ignore Report Reply
Yes man everyone has a hard time getting started with it but you just need to nut up and do it. You will never be a true fan of TV sci-fi unless you can speak authoritatively about how you feel about B5. Just get over yourself and watch it, start with S2 and stop at S4, that's only 3 seasons. If you can watch 3 seasons of a Trek before it gets good, you can watch this. You'll wonder why you waited so long.
Jaresh-Inyo - Tue, 15 May 2018 22:25:28 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64576 Ignore Report Reply
Honestly, this is a perfect binge show. It gets all GoT-in-space and it is nice to sort of follow it in one long binge where you don't forget who is doing what to whom behind whosits back....
Corporal Chang - Wed, 16 May 2018 00:05:55 EST ID:ZR416Pa+ No.64577 Ignore Report Reply
so op here-

you're the second person to say that in this thread can I ask why? The first season is what I couldn't get past in seriousness. And why the last season as well? I know about the different viewing order. is it that or something else?
Admiral Owen Paris - Wed, 16 May 2018 01:08:33 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64578 Ignore Report Reply
how could I ever speak authoritatively on B5 when my opinion is just "ehhhh, it was aight"?
General Martok - Wed, 16 May 2018 16:48:45 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64583 Ignore Report Reply
First season is almost completely out of continuity with the rest of the show.

Just like S1 of DS9 didn't establish the main story of Sisko and Dukat being an allegory of a predestined battle between Good vs Evil. This setup is presented in S2.

Also main protagonist shifts to Sheridan.

Last season is an epilogue to the series, as they expected to get cancelled in S4... so lots of side quests, another shift of the main protagonist, and dealing with life after your destiny is fulfilled.

Would of got to see that in DS9, but they decided to let viewers wonder instead of answering our fears.
Leskit - Wed, 16 May 2018 19:02:25 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.64585 Ignore Report Reply
The first season is in no way out of continuity with the rest of the show. S1 is actually very important to the overall story and sets up a lot.
Seska - Wed, 16 May 2018 21:31:19 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64589 Ignore Report Reply
S1 doesn't hurt, but if you want to get grabbed by the balls and go "oh shit Babylon 5 is cool" I think S2 does a sharper job of it.
Third of Five - Wed, 16 May 2018 23:43:23 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64593 Ignore Report Reply
It's like everyone is saying, S1 is ok but it has more filler episodes than any other season. Yes, there is stuff there that is picked up later but you don't absolutely NEED anything in the whole season so if it's putting you off just skip it. Once you're hooked you can come back later if you want.
5 is more useless though. Explaining why it is so irrelevant is kind of spoilers but suffice it to say everything you really care about is over by the end of season 4 and you only stick around for 5 if you are really interested in the characters and setting.
Gul Evek - Thu, 17 May 2018 16:29:30 EST ID:38Rd3CpY No.64598 Ignore Report Reply
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I liked it. Didn't finish it though. The jokes and the nonessential conversations are poorly acted throughout, but you can kind of learn to ignore it. Acting gets better on the part of the main characters as the show progresses, though, especially with all of the ambassadors and their assistant dudes.

Like everyone else said it really picks up during season 2 but a lot of season 1 has to be watched for exposition and some stuff from season 1 ends up resurfacing later on. The plot gets pretty deep on a lot of different fronts. The whole shadow thing is a little formulaic but there's a cool tweest at the end that makes it worth it.

Also human Delenn is best waifu
Badar N'D'D - Thu, 17 May 2018 21:27:52 EST ID:pekGfeeU No.64601 Ignore Report Reply
i'm trying to watch the gathering for the 4th time now and god how its awful
i'm not gonna bother listing everything i find shit about it but damn

189IQ writing they said
Guinan - Thu, 17 May 2018 21:31:52 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64602 Ignore Report Reply
You can totally skip that one.. it only introduces characters and the setting, really

It was also where Paramount got the idea for Odo
T'Pau - Thu, 17 May 2018 23:16:20 EST ID:FgLloLjB No.64603 Ignore Report Reply
The movies, in general are horrible TV movie trash. In the Beginning bookends the series whether you've seen all of it or none of it.
Thirdspace is a long episode. River of Souls: lol Martin Sheen is an alien. Rangers is Starship troopers without the satire, or the troopers. And A Call to Arms while I know I've seen it. I couldn't tell you a single thing about it. And that's a bad review in my book.

>Babylon 5: The Lost Tales was intended to be an anthology show set in the Babylon 5 universe.
lol like those Discovery rumors.
>The project consists of one direct-to-DVD production containing two stories.
Protip: Don't make an anthology movie with two stories. You need three. Then on the DVD you can release extended cuts of each of them as not-quite-feature-length movies in their own right like Sin City.

I didn't know this existed. I'll probably watch it later.
Guinan - Fri, 18 May 2018 01:48:00 EST ID:r99xqWCw No.64605 Ignore Report Reply
One is good.. or at least okay.. one is trash, just fyi
EMH MARK 2 - Fri, 18 May 2018 10:52:02 EST ID:VYIAkxPv No.64608 Ignore Report Reply
Is this shit seriously about exorcising a goddamn demon with magic powers in space
Katogh - Fri, 18 May 2018 12:13:48 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64611 Ignore Report Reply
>> The whole shadow thing is a little formulaic
B5 is literally Lord of the Rings in space. JMS has said as much. It's why he was able to come up with the whole arc of the show in one flash of shower inspiration, his brain just copied over the narrative of LOTR to a knock-off Trek universe (he originally pitched the show as a Trek show to Paramount, btw, they rejected him and used his idea a year later to make DS9, he retooled and made his show after spending a lot more time begging for funding.)
Geordi La Forge - Sat, 19 May 2018 10:40:16 EST ID:VYIAkxPv No.64624 Ignore Report Reply
Yeah but I was seriously concerned that it was the good one.
Robin Lefler - Sat, 19 May 2018 14:12:20 EST ID:Y11CrKsu No.64629 Ignore Report Reply
I grew up on B5. I love it and it has a lot of nostalgia for me. Rewatching it though, it's deeply flawed, even if I love it.

It's good for its time. At the time there wasn't tons of long arc storytelling on tv, so that was pretty groundbreaking. Also, the shadow war holds up as a story and the internal politics are interesting. The Londo/G'Kar relationship is one of the best crafted in TV scifi.

But... it never stops being awkward. As soon as they start getting their feet on the ground they lose some actors. They continue to diverge off into stupid filler side-episodes. They introduce Marcus who is one of the most cringey/skeevy characters ever conceived.

I probably wouldn't recommend it to someone who isn't really into scifi. I would recommend it to trekfans though, just with a lot of caveats.
Kai Winn - Sat, 19 May 2018 19:57:29 EST ID:7FETLPOS No.64635 Ignore Report Reply
the thing is i cant sit through STD either and i hate modern sci-fi with the exception of the orville

i'm not even talking about war and action and that stuff, i'm just talking about anything

like i said, these first few episodes (and the ones i havent watched yet) all smell like filler
Guinan - Sat, 19 May 2018 20:57:02 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64637 Ignore Report Reply
TBQHFAM I used a watch list the first time. I've been trying to find it but I can't seem to locate the exact one I used.. but I am going to try looking again right now.
Guinan - Sat, 19 May 2018 21:31:27 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64638 Ignore Report Reply

Here is a watch list with both essential and recommended episodes.. I cannot find the one I used last time I watched B5 but this one looks sorta similar
Guinan - Mon, 21 May 2018 01:28:05 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64649 Ignore Report Reply
It is for me.. last rewatch I just stopped after the conclusion of the Shadow War and watched only the s4 finale and the last 2 episodes of s5 after that

I think that's how it goes
DaiMon Torrot - Tue, 22 May 2018 20:53:29 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64672 Ignore Report Reply
At the time, that CGI was ground-breaking for a TV series. The Video Toaster used to be the shit back in the day.
William T Riker - Tue, 22 May 2018 21:58:45 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64673 Ignore Report Reply
Video Toaster was the workhorse of 90s low budget TV..
Legate Hovat - Wed, 23 May 2018 02:11:12 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.64674 Ignore Report Reply
nobody told me shit I watched this show a long time ago before ever coming to this board I was just stating my opinion
Hoshi Sato - Wed, 23 May 2018 02:29:51 EST ID:yU9mPOdm No.64676 Ignore Report Reply
>that CGI was ground-breaking for a TV series.

But not properly used, terribly animated, over-ambitious for pure computer animation.
If I could go back and make one contribution to that show I'd puppeteer the spaceships and turrets on a side and overhead camera and motion tracked it by eye.

The biggest problem isn't how shitty the lighting and surfaces are. That actually works okay on CRT televisions. But they tried to do pure computer animation in a computer that couldn't render out a wireframe in real-time.
Otherwise they would have noticed how often they turn a starfury about its frigging Z axis pivot, centered in the middle of the mesh.
A: A pilot wouldn't fly that way.
B: the pivot for the starfuries should be between the engines and behind them, adjusting to the right or left and up or down based on the ratio of thrust between the engines
This shit is floating, once it starts rotating something has to stop it. This is why you model and animate stabilizing thrusters.
All of that shit is too complicated, so just go play with toys like an 8 year old for 10 minutes and make yourself a visual reference.

Pure computer animation is so difficult and painstaking to do well that most video games switched to mo-cap ages ago and the ones that didn't mostly had terrible animation. And it's difficult with real-time playback. Impossible on an Amiga.
Brok'tan - Wed, 23 May 2018 09:56:28 EST ID:j4ERvPYe No.64677 Ignore Report Reply
>This shit is floating, once it starts rotating something has to stop it. This is why you model and animate stabilizing thrusters.

High School Physics says NOTHING HAS TO STOP IT (Newton's First Law).

A title of one of the damn episodes references this "Objects in Motion".

Pretty fucking sure they knew what they were doing internet wise-guy.
EMH MARK 2 - Wed, 23 May 2018 10:40:24 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64678 Ignore Report Reply
the nitpicking is real
Sarpek the Fearless - Wed, 23 May 2018 12:43:19 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64679 Ignore Report Reply
Using pure CGI was not a creative decision. They simply could not afford to go the traditional model route. Using nothing but CGI was the only way they had enough money to make the show.
Guinan - Wed, 23 May 2018 13:04:12 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64680 Ignore Report Reply
>make fun of the first real use of CGI in television based on criteria that were not yet developed when it was made
I kinda think you're being harsh. Go look at what videogames looked like the year the first season came out
DaiMon Torrot - Wed, 23 May 2018 14:15:23 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64681 Ignore Report Reply
So much this...so much.

They did a lot with very little on that show. Give them credit. Sorry it wasn't Jurassic World level CGI.
Hoshi Sato - Wed, 23 May 2018 14:20:39 EST ID:yU9mPOdm No.64682 Ignore Report Reply
>High School Physics says NOTHING HAS TO STOP IT (Newton's First Law).
Wut? It also says they can't stop for no reason, which is exactly what they do.

Videogames actually do need a physics model though. None of them were accurate at the time and almost all of them still aren't now, but they are a set of rules that govern movement consistently in a way that Babylon 5 lacked.

You don't need any technology they didn't have to do a drastically better job. Stock footage of the Blue Angels/Red Arrows maneuvering in formation would have been a good frame-by-frame reference.
But so would playing with toy models with a top and side view. The four-pronged shape of starfuries is actually perfect for doing this.
Turanj - Wed, 23 May 2018 16:05:32 EST ID:9giLxpHZ No.64683 Ignore Report Reply
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You-you-you you're really continue to compare fighter formations in gravity to fighter formations in a vacuum?

I have spotted the person that ignored their physics class people.
Hoshi Sato - Wed, 23 May 2018 16:54:46 EST ID:yU9mPOdm No.64684 Ignore Report Reply
Absolutely not. But it's still a better animation baseline, and would serve the show better than winging it. You can see how the formations work in 3D.

Stunt planes and fighter jets roll because of the difference in maneuvering power they have across their axes. Airplanes are much stronger at pitching up and down doing a yaw. A Starfury, by comparison is stronger at doing a yaw than a pitch due to the spacing of its engines. So they have a reason to roll. Despite this, they still prefer to align themselves to pitch and usually maneuver along the pitch.
So I dunno that you can claim space physics when they were clearly already biased toward the fighter jet style.

But you'll notice one thing over all else: They almost never roll. And usually when they do, it's while they're flying straight.
What is actually the point of a flat plane delta formation in space anyway? 'cause that's what they use in the show, and unlike a fighter-jet delta where the planes fly at slightly different elevations in the formation, those ones are legit flat.

We have physics simulations now that help animators tremendously, but back in the day every animation studio really needed a physics major to help with the acceleration/deceleration curves.

It's also a writing thing. If you take more modern stuff like The Expanse or Seven Eves there's a lot more research on behalf of the writer to figure out mass/acceleration and impress upon the readers/audience that movement in space is all about Delta-V. And it forces the animators to take it in those same terms.

JMS was writing a fantasy space opera, and not trying to be hard sci-fi. But there's a visual intuition that just betrays the Starfuries.
And that's probably why Star Trek never did fighters until 1998.
Guinan - Wed, 23 May 2018 19:30:39 EST ID:GwChYndC No.64685 Ignore Report Reply
Hadley - Wed, 23 May 2018 22:14:40 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64689 Ignore Report Reply
So easy to criticize 20 years later. God you're obnoxious.
Kira Nerys - Wed, 23 May 2018 23:38:09 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.64690 Ignore Report Reply
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>Babylon 5 First television series to use CGI as the primary method for its visual effects. First TV use of virtual sets.

Guinan you have started to allow far too much slack...you are losing credibility.
Jannar - Wed, 23 May 2018 23:49:49 EST ID:yU9mPOdm No.64691 Ignore Report Reply
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I'd count it. It was all individual effects, compositing and digital matte paintings before then. But almost entirely in films, not really in Television.

VeggieTales does not fucking count. Cartoons in general don't count, at least not until ReBoot Insektors if you're a frenchy french fuck. That's an objective fact.
Odo - Thu, 24 May 2018 00:05:32 EST ID:8QEm2Cld No.64693 Ignore Report Reply
I don't get it, myself. Special effects and graphics have never mattered that much to me. Like whether it's an NES or a Switch, I'm just impressed they got the little plumber to move across the screen and enjoy the game. My imagination fills in the gaps, and with B5 or classic Doctor Who it's part of their charm. Plus without old CGI there's no modern CGI, so to me watching B5 and complaining about the effects is akin to visiting The Alamo and complaining about it not being air conditioned.
Gaila - Thu, 24 May 2018 00:47:07 EST ID:lfvXQevj No.64694 Ignore Report Reply
Uh hey guys OP here. Not like that matters much?

Anyway- I can kind of see where Guinan was coming from, if you're being totally realistic about the time line of it yea computers and film have been around for a while.

Moreover I think what Guinan is talking about is that specific time that, for lack of a better word, "our kind" of CGI started coming to the fore. T2, Jurassic Park, etc etc. It started to really become "more common" in terms of production. I can be fine with that for Babylon 5 in terms of groundbreaking-ness.

I think the problem now has to do with ageing though. I state it simply that I'm new to B5 and that it's quite ugly. I have no nostalgia for it so I cannot say that it didn't matter as much since I was a kid.

And let me be clear it's not really a 'deal breaker' for me. It's just a thing that is how it is.
Lt. Diana Giddings - Thu, 24 May 2018 12:53:40 EST ID:WedrHoVC No.64695 Ignore Report Reply
Jurassic Park has aged so well because it used so little CGI.

Babylon 5's effects are pretty awful but it didn't have the budget for muppets and Claudia Black in her 20s. But it's a one of those shows where it's really about examining the human condition via aliens and modern issues by the future and primarily having a cool plot.
K'Ehleyr - Thu, 24 May 2018 16:36:14 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64697 Ignore Report Reply
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Guise this is the first show that had CGI in it (to replace a ship model; as a main effect) also it's getting a remake so yay!
Commander Morag - Thu, 24 May 2018 20:00:49 EST ID:yU9mPOdm No.64699 Ignore Report Reply
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So in my quest for Starfury design diagrams I've found they actually look pretty badass.

Especially this one they didn't use. That shit is hot. They're all very derivative of The Last Starfighter but that's a functional design. Plus the Starfury is better, more mass in the center and the pilot placed much closer to the center of mass so you don't splatter all over the windscreen like captain Highway Star.
Jadzia Dax - Thu, 24 May 2018 23:11:22 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64701 Ignore Report Reply
The CG or action isn't the primary focus so it doesn't matter much to me. I just only watched it like 2 years ago and I still loved it. That generation of CG is kinda endearing once you get to the point of liking the show and characters.
Zefram Cochrane - Fri, 25 May 2018 00:16:08 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64704 Ignore Report Reply
have the laserdiscs ever been transferred?
I want to rewatch it but the shit DVD cropping triggers my tisms
Sarah Sisko - Fri, 25 May 2018 20:58:07 EST ID:kYb6aaGt No.64722 Ignore Report Reply
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Can we just appreciate how cute this unfinished engine pod is?
Sarah Sisko - Sat, 26 May 2018 16:46:30 EST ID:kYb6aaGt No.64731 Ignore Report Reply
>B5 is literally Lord of the Rings in space.
The ancient space-elf is named Lorien lol.
Captain Braxton - Wed, 13 Jun 2018 15:36:28 EST ID:Y0lA/p9U No.64913 Ignore Report Reply
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>Fuck it. I'm gonna start modeling a Starfury right now.
Well that was 20 days ago.

I played a lot of Fortnite instead, though.
Guinan - Thu, 14 Jun 2018 01:14:01 EST ID:D65nZOLV No.64916 Ignore Report Reply
Looking fucking nice man
Kira Taban - Sun, 17 Jun 2018 13:06:42 EST ID:0RjgU92B No.64933 Ignore Report Reply
I feel like post season one in turns into a pretty good show honestly. Even the early episodes aren't terrible. But its got the trek syndrome of being a show slow to start. But once it gets going it's got its own flavor, the unirverse dosen't feel quite as friendly as treks does.

I'm not in love with it. But I dont hate it. I'd call it worth a watch for a sci fi fan. The whole thing has a layer of cheesiness to it. And if you can't handle that skip skip skip.
Dr. Mizan - Sun, 17 Jun 2018 16:18:31 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64936 Ignore Report Reply
All trek has some level of cheese. Even STD though they tried not to.
Jaro Essa - Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:54:58 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64945 Ignore Report Reply
STD has cheesey lens flare....
Grand Nagus Smeet - Wed, 20 Jun 2018 20:21:37 EST ID:MLBkNMi0 No.64970 Ignore Report Reply
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Annnnd Ivanova's Starfury.
Grand Nagus Smeet - Wed, 20 Jun 2018 20:28:27 EST ID:MLBkNMi0 No.64971 Ignore Report Reply
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If anyone knows what the original polygon count of the Starfury was I'd like to calculate how many times I blew through the polygon budget.

What I do know is that I blew through the memory budget of a maxed out Amiga 3000 about 420 times.
Kolo - Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:08:46 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64986 Ignore Report Reply
A.) How did you have the time to do this
B.) I hope you do 3d modeling professionally cause you're amazing <3
Luth Lexor - Tue, 26 Jun 2018 19:20:42 EST ID:oxhxahfe No.65033 Ignore Report Reply
Yeah babylon 5 is based
you have to learn to appreciate the naffness of the costumes etc. it will pay dividends!
they made the wise decision to keep all aliens humanoid which means they can effectively explore decent storylines without huge plotholes\questions
the writing is great, hints of comedy, and pertinent themes to today. also well paced story arks, having been conceived as one 5 season project
have just finished my 2nd watchthrough and it gets better with time, as good as a space opera novel and that's a high praise

yes the CGI looks naff, mainly due to budget\technology at the time, but the story really gets you in for the long run
best way to watch it is the torrent of the full 5 seasons, there's a wiki with the proper order to include the movies in sequence

G'kar is my fave character and thalia is slammin hot.

great characters, great story, forgive the graphics and blast off

>man's last, best hope for peace
The Traveler - Tue, 26 Jun 2018 20:07:11 EST ID:iY71rgMr No.65034 Ignore Report Reply
>4 seasons of suspense build up
>war finally starts
>shortly after both the vorlons and shadows become best friends again and fuck off from the milky way

Groundskeeper Boothby - Tue, 26 Jun 2018 20:59:59 EST ID:UMfDMM4P No.65035 Ignore Report Reply
It's 3 seasons of build-up. And if you leave now you're missing the bitchin' Earth resistance war.
Colonel Lovok - Tue, 26 Jun 2018 21:15:02 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.65036 Ignore Report Reply
I watch it at least once a year and enjoy every bit of it every time. You cover it all pretty well. If you don't already make sure you watch the JMS viewing order. It is a fantastic series though. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape because of the CGI. Its not modern eye candy with no substance. The CGI rightly takes a backseat and its not like its awful for the time and budget either. I don't get how people can sit through TOS and other similar series of the time no problem but you bring up B5 and suddenly it doesn't matter how good the story is or the characters are because the CGI isn't up to 2018 standards.

If you think that is all those 4 seasons are then it went totally over your head.
DaiMon Bok - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 00:43:57 EST ID:4WVh8sFm No.65037 Ignore Report Reply
B5's a great show and all but don't act like it was super deep or something man
Governor Torak - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 01:00:15 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.65038 Ignore Report Reply
As opposed to 5 seasons of build up all for the silly wormhole prophet to just disappear?
Governor Torak - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 01:01:17 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.65039 Ignore Report Reply
Literally nothing is deep at all to people on the internet. It can have intricate writing that touches on all kinds of subjects but all someone has to do is ironically say "2deep4me" and then it's not up to deepness standards.
Governor Torak - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 01:04:52 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.65040 Ignore Report Reply
I have incomplete thoughts, so sorry for the third post but if Measure of a Man aired today people would say "lol, people actually like this 2deep4me shit?"

There's some kind of stigma that if a show or movie addresses anything philosophical that it is automatically pseudo philosophy, so basically no philosophy allowed.
Symbolic nb.
Captain Rixx - Wed, 27 Jun 2018 02:16:20 EST ID:ZR416Pa+ No.65041 Ignore Report Reply
>As opposed to 5 seasons of build up all for the silly wormhole prophet to just disappear?

I assume you're referring to DS9. That show, imho, is less about the Prophets and more about the War Diplomacy that makes up the bulk of the series.

>Literally nothing is deep at all to people on the internet. It can have intricate writing that touches on all kinds of subjects but all someone has to do is ironically say "2deep4me" and then it's not up to deepness standards.

Yes. Yes that's true. Most of the time the idea is to see who can win "The Contrarian Olympics." The internet was functionally a mistake.

>There's some kind of stigma that if a show or movie addresses anything philosophical that it is automatically pseudo philosophy, so basically no philosophy allowed.
Symbolic nb.

I think that's literally true when it's written by hacks. otherwise serious people can have genuine disagreements
Ikat'ika - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:28:15 EST ID:chOkTgWk No.65065 Ignore Report Reply
This is a weird depth of nitpicking about how space works for a Trek board. To this day Trek still has ships always meeting on a plane at close distance like they're boats.
Vice Admiral Nakamura - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 10:52:04 EST ID:NmJ0Aupw No.65066 Ignore Report Reply
Well to be fair, if Discovery proved anything with its big zoomy traveling shot eventually revealing the Enterprise it's that camera perspective is pretty limited and we have almost no idea how close they actually approach.

Unless of course the camera moves around fast, which classic trek would never do because the camera is real and it would smash the models.
Guinan - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:03:45 EST ID:A7VCaQlc No.65068 Ignore Report Reply
It always bothered me that ships orbit planets without the dorsal portion of the ship facing downward towards the planet, or even the ventral part of the ship facing the planet, they're always orbiting with the the broadside of the ship facing the planet. This is annoying because it would make adjustments to orbit really awkward since your perspective is all sideways and shit. If you understand what I'm saying, you will never be able to unsee it.
Kira Nerys - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 17:29:55 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.65071 Ignore Report Reply
>>Trek still has ships always meeting on a plane at close distance like they're boats.
>>ships orbit planets without the dorsal portion of the ship facing downward towards the planet
Guize, it's a TV show. They were trying to communicate the idea of space travel to troglodytic 1960's suburbia through a 17 inch cathode ray screen; the best frame of reference they could have to help people understand was naval action.

You wanna see the ship oriented correctly to the viewer, and humans have no natural understanding of 'three dimensional thinking', so seeing the planet above or below the ship naturally makes one think the ship is at one of the planet's poles. Obviously nerds like us understand that this is just for simplicity's sake, but if they didn't do it, every episode they would have to explain it or people would be confused

if you think they wouldn't be confused, consider how many key plot moments thought up by the writers and greenlit by the producers throughout the shows rely on a totally faulty understanding of the 3dness of space.
Guinan - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:32:16 EST ID:A7VCaQlc No.65072 Ignore Report Reply
This is why I don't usually spout off about such minutia. But if you ever play Kerbal Space Program, you'll gain an intuitive understanding of orbital mechanics that will make scenes like the one from Into Darkness where the ship is falling straight down so fucking unbelievable that you'll be filled with white hot, autistic rage
Ikat'ika - Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:48:30 EST ID:chOkTgWk No.65074 Ignore Report Reply
Well yeah. I don't care. I just mentioned it because I thought >>64676 was hilariously specific.

Though it is super cool when a show actually cares about that stuff. Everyone watch the Expanse if you haven't yet.
Dr. Denara Pel - Tue, 03 Jul 2018 21:56:43 EST ID:jmSOtBOw No.65106 Ignore Report Reply
There's a point where shit becomes inescapably dumb. I'm fine with ships being close enough together to bump hulls, because it's easier in terms of storytelling to have them on screen at the same time. Even The Expanse did it on at least one occasion, even if it didn't make a ton of sense. I have more of an issue with writers not staying consistent with ranges between episodes, so you have the Enterprise practically running into something before detecting it, but the next episode it can detect things on the other side of the star system. But it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to notice inconsistencies.

Stuff like >>65072 is completely retarded, though. Not only because spaceships aren't cars, but also because it ignores physics to do stuff that isn't very exciting, and is very cheap. And that's the risk of ignoring one part of the equation: If you get the other part wrong, too, there's nothing left to look at.

Trek was very often retarded with its physics. But it also almost always used its physics in order to set up that core of true Trek: Character interaction. For instance, in Hollow Pursuits Barclay has to solve some technobabble anomaly thing. But it's not about his investigation at all. Instead it's about his strained relationship with his crewmates, which comes to light due to the more difficult than average assignment. But when you say "these dudes are fighting on a falling spaceship" you're making that setting paramount to the scene. So if you fail at creating the appropriate setting, there goes your entire scene.
Dr. Leah Brahms - Wed, 11 Jul 2018 11:43:46 EST ID:vlhOlur9 No.65162 Ignore Report Reply

Admiral Cartwright - Sat, 14 Jul 2018 09:52:17 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.65188 Ignore Report Reply
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Started my re watch of b5 this weekend and this time around I can really appreciate the humor more. I'm more acquainted with the style of humorand all the context so I'm finding tons of laughs I each episode. It's definitely more fun the second time around.

Also, I remember that someone here turned me on to Star Trek Shitposting, the fb group, so I'll return the favor and recommend Babylon 5 Spooposting. It's great.
Guinan - Sun, 05 May 2019 13:18:14 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.67421 Ignore Report Reply
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I feel like this year old B5 thread deserves a bump and maybe another year
Gregory Quinn - Sun, 05 May 2019 22:41:42 EST ID:mw1AnnTr No.67425 Ignore Report Reply
lost half a year of discussion due to the database corruption
Q - Tue, 07 May 2019 11:13:01 EST ID:0KyxXOfA No.67443 Ignore Report Reply
Guinan - Tue, 07 May 2019 15:24:52 EST ID:D65nZOLV No.67445 Ignore Report Reply
Lt. George Primmin - Thu, 09 May 2019 12:47:18 EST ID:MZ6goDu/ No.67451 Ignore Report Reply
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Watch all seasons of B5 two times. Ask me everything. First answere is: Yes, B5 is better than Star Trek.
I.G. Tarah - Thu, 09 May 2019 15:57:34 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.67454 Ignore Report Reply
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Do you think the resolution to the Shadow arc was hamfisted? Is it a cop-out how much it veered into being space LOTR, or was that just leaning in to its stated mission plan. On a larger scale, do you think the season 5 switcheroo helped or hurt the season 4 narrative?
T'Les - Thu, 09 May 2019 16:51:12 EST ID:60zgf9Xq No.67457 Ignore Report Reply
I've done that and my conclusion is that B5 is just okay
Gaila - Thu, 09 May 2019 21:22:58 EST ID:bOlOhkyn No.67458 Ignore Report Reply
it's probably worth noting that LotR was WAY more obscure back then
Guinan - Fri, 10 May 2019 00:56:56 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.67462 Ignore Report Reply
I think they did a damn good job considering all the storylines had to be compressed by an entire season. They thought they were getting cancelled at the end of s4 so everything had to sped up drastically.
Harry Mudd - Fri, 10 May 2019 04:15:37 EST ID:60zgf9Xq No.67463 Ignore Report Reply
nah most kids already listened to zep
Gaila - Fri, 10 May 2019 11:32:34 EST ID:bOlOhkyn No.67464 Ignore Report Reply
That's still a lot less info about Kzhahadum or whatever than you get from them being on basic cable all the time
Natasha Yar - Fri, 10 May 2019 19:39:10 EST ID:FkQ7Hlrv No.67467 Ignore Report Reply

Just started with the Gathering and I liked what I watched, now I can begin Season 1 Thanks for the rec.
Turanj - Fri, 17 May 2019 01:45:04 EST ID:5SVJcPG+ No.67547 Ignore Report Reply
make sure you watch JMS's viewing order. It really makes a difference

Chell - Fri, 17 May 2019 23:33:49 EST ID:Pa0YLefx No.67556 Ignore Report Reply
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Well since JMS himself seems to recommend it, I suppose I will stick with that viewing order. Thank you for the link.
I just finished Deathwalker and so far I'm really enjoying season 1.
I'm not exactly sure if I understand the criticisms about s1 mentioned in this thread. The acting and jokes are apparently bad but I don't see a problem with them. The CGI is apparently too cheesy for people to take seriously but I enjoy it. The CGI reminds me of Starcraft and you can tell what they were trying to convey in relation to the scene.
As another user said, the cheese factor can be quite endearing but never too distracting either. The feel and aesthetic of the show is exactly what I've been looking for because it reminds me so much of Trek.
If you can watch TOS for what it is, then you'd think people would accept season 1 of B5 for what it is. Honestly the criticisms here seem pretty knit-picky. I'm new to the series so I can't speak at great lengths about the show yet, and I'm not saying it's flawless, but people should cut season 1 some slack. It's enjoyable and exactly the kind of show I need to fill the Trek void.
Guinan - Sat, 18 May 2019 00:53:08 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.67558 Ignore Report Reply
If you like s1 you will fucking LOVE s2-4. S5 is uneven and shitty but I feel like it had a few gems nonetheless.
Ikat'ika - Sat, 18 May 2019 04:33:47 EST ID:60zgf9Xq No.67562 Ignore Report Reply
oh boy just wait until you get to the movies and Crusade...

...shits bad yo
Phlox - Sat, 18 May 2019 22:52:58 EST ID:8Tu6WKEq No.67563 Ignore Report Reply
I've held off from watching any sci-fi that isn't Trek ever since I discovered it. I think I might finally take the plunge into B5 though. I just have to find a good way to watch it. Is it on Netflix or HBO?
Guinan - Sun, 19 May 2019 02:36:41 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.67564 Ignore Report Reply
Babylon 5 is a great show, it has a very trek vibe to its overarching themes and yet it has it's own unique aesthetic. The unfortunate thing about it is that it is completely unavailable on any streaming service. I mean the paid ones that is. The best and easiest place to find it would be through torrents or pirate streams laden with pop up ads. Its worth the struggle.
Lt. Joseph Carey - Sun, 19 May 2019 02:40:38 EST ID:5SVJcPG+ No.67566 Ignore Report Reply
They aren't amazing but they aren't absolute trash. If you like B5 then they are 100% worth watching for the lore and certainly watchable. The books and comics are good too.
Latha Mabrin - Sun, 19 May 2019 04:23:09 EST ID:60zgf9Xq No.67568 Ignore Report Reply
I liked B5 but Crusade was god awful
Dr. Mora Pol - Sun, 19 May 2019 04:59:00 EST ID:+2Tbsh8G No.67569 Ignore Report Reply
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I'm just using watch-series. Use duckduckgo or whatever to find it if you don't know what I'm talking about. It's not like it was mastered in anything above 480p anyway so hopefully that's not too inconvenient for you. On the contrary, watch-series is a damn good site.
Guinan - Sun, 19 May 2019 12:12:55 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.67573 Ignore Report Reply
I wanted to like crusade. I really did, but it is so bad that it's borderline unwatchable. The problem is that what we got all takes place before the primary storyline of the show had really kicked in, which would have been the end of a longer season. They should have just jumped right into it instead of dicking around because you just get the cinematic/storytelling equivalent of blue balls because nothing really happened.

I mean if you can enjoy crusade, more power to you, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Nevala - Mon, 20 May 2019 01:34:34 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.67581 Ignore Report Reply
Crusade is like if all the Dominion War was was the episode where Quark is trying to get tulaberry wine from the BDSM space clowns. Galen is cool though, they should have just had a show about him.
Ga'Kar - Thu, 23 May 2019 01:07:46 EST ID:MahoacCW No.67609 Ignore Report Reply
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Holy shit those seasons ( 1-4 ) were AWESOOOOOOOOOOOOME
Harry Kim - Fri, 24 May 2019 18:24:09 EST ID:JpsWdQPO No.67639 Ignore Report Reply
All I remember is being a teenager and wanting to fuck Ivanova
Ulis - Fri, 24 May 2019 19:41:49 EST ID:6GW4BuKh No.67641 Ignore Report Reply
Oh the lesbian chaser we never knew we were.

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