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Are Trekkies chill or you raging hatebois like a lot of other fandoms by Natima Lang - Mon, 14 May 2018 14:31:43 EST ID:2xuQmEqU No.64551 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I've started watching the original run with a friend who is a longtime fan of all the spin-off series as well.

I'm kind of burnt out on special interest forums and online communities though because as everyone knows, Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars and spend all their time bitching about how every little detail is wrong and that you're a terrible person if you like a movie that isn't 4 or 5. I like metal and it's the same trying to find other metal fans, everyone just pisses and moans about how nothing is tr00 enough and sperg out over the most obscure demo cassettes.

Are Trekkies like that? Is it OK if you like things that aren't OS and Next Gen or are they a bunch of elitists? I mean you guys are on drugs so you're chill but in general. Or are they just toxic complaining about how everything is wrong with this show they supposedly love.
Kathryn Janeway - Mon, 14 May 2018 14:46:23 EST ID:bJrisuWk No.64552 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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voyager was the last real sterg trergk
ent is vulcan love slave
and std is worse than a joke
everything else is gud
Lt. Darien Wallace - Mon, 14 May 2018 15:27:34 EST ID:oDV8iW5L No.64553 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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This 100%
I unironically enjoy alot of VOY, I binged it in a weird time in my life
Deanna Troi - Mon, 14 May 2018 15:59:22 EST ID:+gPRLRG+ No.64554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Every fandom has its gatekeepers who feel it's their right to determine who's a true fan and who isn't. Depending on who you ask or come across Trekkers can be either the best or worst, but personally I think that it's only fitting with the spirit of the show to be inclusive and let people like what they like.

Discovery is hot garbage though, and if you that's your show then there's no safe haven right now. Fans of that better hope and pray that Tarantino really fucks up bad so that STD can get that grudging, "eh, at least it's not this other shit" acceptance.
Lee - Tue, 15 May 2018 06:07:51 EST ID:fy/Qp6+b No.64563 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I like VOY too. Not all of it, but a lot of it. The ending was just a giant "Fuck You" to the audience though, fucking deus ex machina bullshit...

At least it's better than Deep Sleep 9 though where nothing happens for 5 seasons
Admiral T'Lara - Tue, 15 May 2018 10:22:42 EST ID:SfiMcBo4 No.64565 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Voyager's ending was a very appropriate finale for Voyager.
K'Ehleyr - Tue, 15 May 2018 11:34:03 EST ID:DEBjUOTE No.64569 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars and spend all their time bitching about how every little detail is wrong and that you're a terrible person if you like a movie that isn't 4 or 5
In the defense of Star Wars fans, with movies like TPM, AotC, RotS, TFA, and TLJ, I can't blame them at all for hating their own franchise, just like I wouldn't blame any Trek fan for hating Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, or JJ Trek. Personally, I enjoy some of VOY, and less of ENT. STD was painful though.

I don't mind people enjoying shitty stuff, like JJ Trek or STD. I have my shit shows too that I watch, guilty pleasures of sorts. I just dislike when people try and say that shit content is actually the very best. I had a lesbian bigot at my work tell me that The Last Jedi is the greatest star wars movie of all time. I've never had anybody tell me that STD or JJ Trek is better than DS9 or TNG, but I imagine if I did, it leave my jimmies pretty rustled.
Pax - Tue, 15 May 2018 11:57:00 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64570 Ignore Report Quick Reply
It bothers me a bit when people boil down all STD detractors to some really dumb stereotype. Lots of idiots toss around the term fanboy as some kind of insult against different sects of the same fandom. It's just silly. But yeah I can respect that some people like it, I like it at times, but to ignore all the criticisms and only focus on the silly ones is just dumb and closed minded and kinda shows your own bias and cognitive dissonance.
Ensign Kashimuro Nozawa - Wed, 16 May 2018 05:34:08 EST ID:y4se+ayw No.64581 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Trek fans are just like all other fans. Some are casual, some are hardcore elitists, and many are in between. This board seems to have the most chill discussions unless someone claims to like STD. Only problem is this place can be a little in-jokeish if you're not familiar with all Trek.
Robin Lefler - Wed, 16 May 2018 20:22:21 EST ID:CIHOAy1e No.64586 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>Every fandom has its gatekeepers who feel it's their right to determine who's a true fan and who isn't.
Every other opinion in this thread is 100% deplorable.

And FYI Star Trek Discovery isn't that horrible when you strictly compare it to the other season 1s. It would be hard to even tell the difference if people's feelings weren't horribly stacked with bias.

Argue that it's shit.
Don't waste your time arguing about how it isn't "real trek".

Towing the line of "real trek" which is to say TNG-derivative-to-a-fault-Trek is what gave us Voyager.
Now as far as bias is concerned I have a lot of nostalgia for Voyager, but it's wrong. By volume it's the most fucking unwatchable Star Trek there is. You could argue that Discovery or Enterprise is worse, but not by volume, not by the amount of your time it disrespects and has the capacity to waste.

I have even more nostalgia for the TNG movies but only one of them is good. At least the TOS movies all do different things and each have value to me as a mature adult. The TNG movies are not just shit, but the egregious thing is that they're all the SAME shit.

Couldn't stomach Babylon 5 when I was younger but it's the best Star Trek. It's not Star Trek, but it's the best Star Trek.
Couldn't stand Green Wing when I first saw it but it's a great comedy. Couldn't stand Arrested Development during its original run on FOX, but it's the best comedy.

Nostalgia is actually your enemy. Pic related.
Also the reason to curb your enthusiasm about The Orville. It was easy to get super hyped about it at first, but while its original ideas were good, there weren't enough. It leaned way too hard on unoriginal nostalgia for comfort and down that road lies terrible disappointment. The kind I got rewatching Voyager
Cmdr. Erika Benteen - Wed, 16 May 2018 20:52:30 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64587 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>season 1 defense

The only season 1 that I disliked was Voyager. And I'm not sure if it tops how much I disliked Voyager season 1 but it's close.

I've heard this a thousand times. I'll give you my criticisms but it's likely that you will just ignore all of the valid ones. I've done this before.

Discovery is very jingoist and chauvinist.
The Klingons are generic as fuck. They're a mishmash of bland sci fi aliens with cultural references to underdeveloped imperialist adversaries like Native Americans and the Middle East. It's a bit problematic when they're portrayed that way.
Burnham's actor is wooden and her whole Vulcan story doesn't feel authentic.
Most of the crew is very under-utilized and doesn't get any development at all. The doctor got more than most and the express purpose of his development, if you could call him kiss his boyfriend and expressing affection a couple times "development", was so that it wouldn't feel totally empty when he was killed.
The love plot between Burnham and Tyler was extraordinarily lame. I know I'm not the only person who thought so.
Saru was lame. Most lame and useless first officer of all time. He did manage to come through eventually but it didn't feel all that great.
The spore drive was a pretty lame idea. They could have just done some other kind of generic wormhole tech and it would have been better. If they paid me $50 I could sit down for an hour and write out the technobabble explanation for a "quantum entanglement drive" and it would be 10x better.
So many things about the show are extremely generic.
It's grimdark.
The dark aesthetic doesn't feel right.
Shitty camera angles and lens flares.
The pilot was WAYYYY over-saturated with clutter. It was almost hard to follow what was going on and what just exploded.
Burnham's decisions in the pilot made it near impossible to empathize with her at all.
The show would have been 10x better if it had started with Burnham in the shuttle from episode 3 and showed the Battle of the Binary Stars in flashbacks. They sabotaged her character by spending so much time on her mistakes.
Most of the characters are either uninteresting or very interesting but don't get much screen time. They only got a few right.
Needs more Lorca.

I could probably keep going but I feel like I've demonstrated my point. What was that you were saying about it being about nostalgia? Also the way you talk about The Orville and Voyager kinda makes it seem like you'll eat up anything no matter the quality so long as it's something new.
Cmdr. Erika Benteen - Wed, 16 May 2018 21:03:35 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64588 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Sorry dp but after I typed all that out I realized that I called you out for doing exactly what you did 2 posts above yours and you still did it with the whole "nostalgia" defense lmao.

symbolic nb
Legate Kell - Wed, 16 May 2018 22:15:04 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64590 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Saru was lame. Most lame and useless first officer of all time.

I loved him. I thought the whole concept of a species of cowards was wonderful, and he balanced out Burnham's ironic impulsiveness. And when he needed to, he could get shit done because for Kelpian he is oddly brave.
Admiral Nechayev - Wed, 16 May 2018 22:18:57 EST ID:DStF7Vev No.64591 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Its the only defense STDers have. Its a tired argument at this point and there are several threads where this is beaten to death so I'll not rehash it here. To say that "It would be hard to even tell the difference" its just fucking hilarious though.

Regarding the OP there are basically a few different "factions"

There is a small group of Trekkies who think anything post-TOS isn't real Trek.

There is also the JJ movies divider and the STD divider as well as the die hard JJ and STD fans who aside from one of those two have only seen a handful of other trek shows but proclaim themselves trekkies.

Aside from that I'd say most Trekkies include them all and just believe some are better/more true than others.

Of course there are always going to be those with strong opinions especially as you get deeper into the fandom.
Elizabeth Cutler - Wed, 16 May 2018 23:05:44 EST ID:lfvXQevj No.64592 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Responding to your post.

First, Star Wars fans are retroactively dealing with the fact that there are 2 solid movies in the franchise. There's that.

Second, Star Trek people can be just as irritating yes. Personally I don't care what you like. It's all subjective because it's aesthetics anyway, having said that most trek people like to be self-exhalting when it comes to trek they do not like, see Discovery. Otherwise you'll find that Star Trek fandom is just as varied as any other.

Otherwise, and this is not to OP, this thread is a perfect example of no true scotsman. People can like what they like. Whatever who cares.

And just to throw this in because I despise is just as much as others do. Discovery is absolutely dreadful.
Robin Lefler - Thu, 17 May 2018 07:05:54 EST ID:CIHOAy1e No.64594 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>season 1 defense
Nope. Hating the shitty, barrage of subjective arguments against it doesn't actually mean I think it's good.
I think it's a really awkwardly reworked piece just like the Hobbit movies or Justice League, and a casualty of studio meddling.
>It's grimdark.
The components of this are 50% war and 50% modern lighting. But the reason it fails isn't because it's grimdark, it's because it failed to hit its marks mainly due to issues stemming from the switch in leadership of the production.
>Burnham's actor is wooden
>The love plot between Burnham
Burnham actually has development in the plot points. And I'm not going to bother but my argument is still the same one.
>Shitty camera angles and lens flares.
I've explained this before but many of the lens flares were actually physically inaccurate, jarring, bad VFX work. I dunno who to blame for that, but it's not Bryan Fuller. Either way you can't actually hate on the lens flare aesthetic based on what you saw in Discovery, which failed to even live up to that low bar.

>The pilot was WAYYYY over-saturated with clutter
Try the first whole month of the show.

>I realized that I called you out for doing exactly what you did 2 posts above yours
wut? Is this a mad-lib?

>Its the only defense STDers have.
stop right there divisive criminal scum.
It's just a fact that Season 1s have never nailed the overall feeling or execution of the show they're part of. Not since the original series. STD arguably has as many hits as misses, proportionate to the difference in season lengths. And a hearty Allamaraine to you, m'nigga.
Robin Lefler - Thu, 17 May 2018 07:52:13 EST ID:CIHOAy1e No.64595 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>did it with the whole "nostalgia" defense lmao.
Nostalgia isn't a defense. It's a pleasant, cancerous blight upon your judgment.

There's also legit kiddie nostalgia where children are just better at enjoying stuff, but I didn't have cable TV until I was 15, so I only have that for the movies. But at least that was real. It's still much better to have nostalgia for a good movie that can layer on extra value like the TOS films.

My adult nostalgia for the series' I watched off cable/BitTorrent is just my memory failing and me being delusional about them lol. Kill it with fire.
What Voyager will always have is this: Makes me laugh every time. I started this post because I forgot the Allamaraine gif, but this is much more important.
Fuck, Get the Cheese to Sickbay is already posted. Backup plan.

>Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars and spend all their time bitching about how every little detail is wrong and that you're a terrible person if you like a movie that isn't 4 or 5

We all liked it before we hated it. But for real, Voyager is not the best use of your time. Prioritize TNG, TOS and DS9. Then get into Babylon 5, The Orville, etc.

That said, if you have the time between now and your death you're really not missing anything.
Guinan - Thu, 17 May 2018 13:03:28 EST ID:b6xxRDdY No.64596 Ignore Report Quick Reply
STD occassionally felt like real trek, but the problem is, it took 7 episodes, the first of which was two hours long, to get there. I didn't get any actual trek vibes until the spacewhale timeheist episode. You literally have to watch the equivalent of a full days work in most jobs before you get to the first trek like episode. That being said, I just want to point out that those who say it's not real trek aren't exactly wrong. Also there were very few people involved in STD that were ever involved with any other trek project, minus a director spot for Riker.. this is unusual, as none of the other treks were like this, a lot of people worked on 2 or 3 or more trek series.

Just sayin.
Former Gul Rusot - Fri, 18 May 2018 00:40:28 EST ID:fy/Qp6+b No.64604 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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webm related

Oh come on now, I can agree that it's irrelevant fluff in regards to the main plotline most of the time, but it's scenes like that that help to develop the overarching narrative of particular characters. Even if it does make you want to double over cringing so hard that your kidneys explode out of the back of your body from the pressure built up in your abdomen...
Ishka Moogie - Fri, 18 May 2018 16:26:39 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64614 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Oh hey, good job. You figured out the cryptic mad lib.

Also, I never watched Star Trek until I was about 24 so once again, nice strawman.
Ishka Moogie - Fri, 18 May 2018 16:29:05 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64615 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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I'd like to give you props for putting this much effort into it but you didn't even attempt to refute pretty much any of those points, just making excuses for them. That's your prerogative and that's cool, the whole point of my post was to call out adamant STD fans who love to boil down criticisms to something stupid or easy to argue against and this whole post is a good example of why y'all do it. Because you can't argue against the legitimate criticisms. But again, I can appreciate the effort.
Koloth - Sat, 26 May 2018 12:53:46 EST ID:2xuQmEqU No.64727 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>evil captain kirk drinking brandy and assualting his stewardess
>Mail order brides taking pills to be pretty
>Middle school girl on a planet of kids is in love with kirk
What the fuck is all of TOS this creepy??
Private S Money - Sat, 26 May 2018 13:02:47 EST ID:+9QoXr0j No.64728 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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No, some of it is the other creepy.
Dejar - Sat, 26 May 2018 17:11:01 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64732 Ignore Report Quick Reply
But yeah, there is a real run of creepiness in TOS. Especially at the start of the series. I think Kirk hits on someone in like every one of the first ten episodes....
Nurse Alyssa Ogawa - Tue, 29 May 2018 13:11:57 EST ID:mBuSEZKW No.64758 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Or are they just toxic complaining about how everything is wrong with this show they supposedly love.

That's the difference between us and Star Wars geeks. They complain just out of hate, it's part of their whole "everything is light or darkness" motif, if it's not good then it has to be bad the simpletons.

Star Trek fans bitch about the flaws in our show to a similar degree, but if you listen to the gripes you start to notice that most complaints are followed by some variety of "That said (Series) wasn't nearly as bad as (series that came later), and I actually really liked that this episode did in terms of..."

We bitch, but unlike modern Star Wars it's actual criticism rather than an exercise in hate-watching
Khan Noonien Singh - Tue, 29 May 2018 14:41:30 EST ID:WedrHoVC No.64759 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I don't think it's even that. When you have hundreds of hours of a show there's going to be bits that suck even during its best runs. Sometimes you just laugh at the bad bit or acknowledge that yes this bit sucks. But that doesn't mean the series or even the episode is shit. Some of the bad episodes are fun anyway. If you love someone you don't think they're perfect. If you do, you're not really in love with them.
Youngblood - Wed, 30 May 2018 13:52:59 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64767 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>If you do [think they're perfect], you're not really in love with them.
This. I think this encapsulates modern Star Wars fandom completely and is why it is having so many growing pains right now. They had all been brought up with variations on the idea that Star Wars was perfect, flawless. When the prequels sucked/ were actually visionary works no one could comprehend people couldn't accept that Star Wars wasn't perfect, so they blamed George Lucas. Now that even their pagan mouse god can't save their mental picture of a flawless SW, they don't know what to do. Their image of love for the franchise is based on this false perception of perfection, of mass hysteria, so they can't ever develop true love for what is actually there.

Star Trek was inoculated to this kind of shenanigans early on. By the third year of our franchise we should have already known in our hearts that we were going to be gang raped by the studios for all eternity -- and yet -- gems still shone through.
Silik - Wed, 30 May 2018 14:56:34 EST ID:WedrHoVC No.64768 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I've always enjoyed star wars as a well done, fun action films series. They're basically fairy tales in space and a good laugh. I've never been a rabid fan and I think I may have only seen the originals a couple of times each. I think a lot of people enjoy Star Wars the same way a lot of people enjoy trek and I don't think either is the "face" of the fans for its IP.

The prequels sucked though. They definitely got more shit than they deserved, Bilbo Bagshot had a point about Jar Jar Binks and that Ewok abomination film is still the worst star wars but they weren't good. Episode 1 is Lucas trying to over reach and dropping a lot. As the series progressed he eventually wrote himself into a corner because we knew things had to happen. A lot of the characters who could have been cool were throwaway and had no emotional attachment or engagement both because we knew they weren't relevant and because they were dull and a lot of the plot went in circles without even achieving much. I was more impressed by the shopkeeper than the Sith. Still the podracing was pretty cool.

Disney are playing it safe with the main franchise while taking risks with the spin offs. They can make rogue one and solo however they like and then return to the same formula for the main films. Which is a bit lame but it's a better compromise than most media companies would make or rather better than the way they regularly handle expansive franchises with any promise.
Hikaru Sulu - Wed, 30 May 2018 17:02:45 EST ID:URf+iq8h No.64769 Ignore Report Quick Reply
i disagree with your point about the main series not taking risks. i didn't like TLJ that much, but it was a pretty big risk. they gave rian johnson complete control of this titan of a franchise with (from what I can tell) minimal studio meddling, and johnson took that opportunity to deliberately make some unorthodox moves in the writing. to be fair, I thought those writing decisions sucked and were largely nonsensical, but safe would have been to just tread the same path as empire like TFA retreads a new hope, and they didn't do that. in fact the reason i hate the writing in TLJ so much is that it seems like it's trying to trick you into thinking the story is headed one way, then undercuts it just for the sake of unpredictability, rather than actually telling a story with logical setup and payoff.

i think I'm more easily pleased by Trek because of what >>64767 said - we've been desensitized to missteps from the franchise since the 3rd season of TOS. and with the sheer amount of episodes that span across all these iterations of trek the good and the bad are both pretty well represented already. star wars doesn't have the luxury of 26 episodes a season. each completed work they put out has to be good or at least acceptable to keep me excited for the next thing. with trek i've been through so many ups and downs that I know even when it gets bad, there's some good shit right around the corner (see: ENT getting good, good episodes of VOY scattered throughout, my tenuous hope that discotrash has some qualities that could lead to it improving). not so with star wars, which now has 1 good movie out of 8 attempts since the originals.
Arne Darvin - Thu, 31 May 2018 00:15:11 EST ID:l5TvN503 No.64770 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Kinda seems like it's all or nothing with them up until TLJ. Either go totally safe or just trainwreck with a director thinking he's being innovative but really just fucking shit up.

Maybe Solo treads a middle ground. I'll have to wait to see but the reviews are a lot more positive from what I've seen than TLJ.
Commander Suran - Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:49:59 EST ID:rSqgvTkB No.64774 Ignore Report Quick Reply
The only thing that really pisses me off about TLJ is that they blatantly gave Ackbar's noble sacrifice death to Laura Dern. What the fuck? And Ackbar still dies, just not for an even slightly satisfying reason.
Guinan - Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:52:59 EST ID:b048m/L8 No.64775 Ignore Report Quick Reply
That was just the cherry on top for me. What a horrible movie, what a sloppy script, what boring characters, and what a pathetic way to kill Luke.. he just runs out of fucking mana? Really?
Weyoun 6 - Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:08:38 EST ID:URf+iq8h No.64776 Ignore Report Quick Reply
in all fairness if star wars was a vidya game luke would totally be the type to go oom and wipe the raid.
Benny Russell - Fri, 01 Jun 2018 22:17:50 EST ID:5VzmgF16 No.64779 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Jesus fuck, I was feeling like I was the only person who thought Luke's death was fucking bullshit. Oh, he ran out of power points...he dieded. WTF? You'd think that a Jedi Master would be able to project a hologram of himself without having to die.
Jack - Sun, 03 Jun 2018 13:49:37 EST ID:HeFO2p/X No.64793 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>I was the only person who thought [TLJ is a steaming pile of shit]
No by this point Disney has turned of the psychic distortion field generators and most people are able to accept that TLJ is bad, even those who fanatically couldn't accept it right after it launched.

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