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Elevator pitch

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- Thu, 27 Feb 2020 21:11:01 EST OHlds1Vj No.69792
File: 1582855861163.png -(346950B / 338.82KB, 768x644) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Elevator pitch
You're in a elevator alone with... I don't know someone important at CBS who can make things happen.

Whats your pitch for a new Star Trek series?
>>
Commander Donatra - Thu, 27 Feb 2020 22:01:08 EST bOlOhkyn No.69793 Reply
you give me two hundred million dollars
I give you a hundred million
I pocket fifty
we spend twenty five on production
then we spend the remaining twenty five million on cocaine and children
>>
Tokath - Thu, 27 Feb 2020 22:47:05 EST yW/tSq77 No.69794 Reply
1582861625529.png -(316676B / 309.25KB, 505x379) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
  • 20 or 25 years after Star Trek VI
  • tech basically at same level as the films, one or two new toys but nothing turned on its head
  • ship goes out and explores the galaxy
  • TNG 2.0 but no counselor, no rape gangs (sorry, Tasha) no mystical-yet-petulant god aliens and no conspiracy shit
  • think The Motion Picture but with stronger subplots and more character development
  • more drama through organic tension, less face punching and murder
  • sit back and watch the advertising dollars bury your receptionist
>>
DaiMon Nunk - Fri, 28 Feb 2020 02:14:18 EST cz2TWSOJ No.69797 Reply
  • starts year 2379 post VOY Endgame / Nemesis
  • EP0 is a free bonus / comedy episode / clip show featuring Captain Braxon: The entire ST09 "prime" and "alternate" "universes" are a temporal psychosis hallucination while locked up in 20th century psych ward.
    • Each season is a mini-series exploring one significant series of events. Development of seasons can happen in parallel if needed.
  • S1: Diplomatic drama regarding the proliferation of new technologies acquired from VOY, ethics around secrecy regarding awareness/diplomacy with non-corporal fractions (Q & prophets)
  • S2: Borg insurgency action series around unimatrix zero, establish borg backstory, debate around privacy and individuality inside a vr enviroment
-S3: Ferengi series following a "Rouge Trader" type ship during the reign of Nagus Rom. Generally light headed, more episodic but deal with issues like cooperate influence and government oversight.
>>
I.G. Keval - Fri, 28 Feb 2020 03:40:34 EST q61djBEk No.69799 Reply
Might not be popular, but thought it could be interesting

>Set in the late 2070's and early 2080's.
>Less technobabble, just exploring the stellar shock humanity is going through after first contact.
>Showing humans getting over the atomic horror, poverty and the like and laying the foundations for a utopian united earth.
>Show Vulcans in a more positive light than they were in ENT.
>Show issues of the possibility of cultural contamination i.e. you could have human disciples of Sarek who have completely discarded all human culture and have become the full on Vulcan equivalent of being a weeb.
>Could have paranoid xenophobes like Terra Prime arising.
>Paranoid military who refuse to believe such a good thing is happening sending spies to Vulcan.
>Deal with a small cadre of people who are set to lose out with a utopian united earth.
>Just a good old TNG style exploration of the human condition.

Perhaps have the main characters as people who are directly on the ground, police, middling low level bureaucrats, doctors et cetera, rather than grand heroic starship captains.

Imagine some police-type trying to maintain order, and his sidekick is a dour Vulcan forensic scientist.
>>
Quark - Fri, 28 Feb 2020 13:33:45 EST jwjJ078M No.69806 Reply
>>69792
>Option 1 (less realistic, more Trek)
Set something between TOS and TNG, running alongside the TOS films but separate from it. Keep mostly to TOS-style episodic plots but have a running background narrative of the challenges the Federation is facing as it tries to turn from optimistic expansion/exploration into a 'mature' civilisation to help explain the changes between TOS and TNG. Show some of the old guard being displeased at the change from cowboy diplomacy. If you're really brave confirm the 'ENT future guy was archer' plot, if the timelines work out, and either way portray the old guard sympathetically as viewing their 'freedom'/individuality being threatened by the realities of running a union with wildly differing cultures but make sure this is always secondary to the real SF plot-of-the-week.
>Option 2 (easier to sell to studio heads)
A semi-gritty series that explores various times during existing series. S1 is stories from the Dominion war but showing Federation crews trying to uphold fed ideas. Picture the captain risking the ship in a potentially dangerous zone during the earlier period of the war when this wouldn't be totally negligent for a once-in-a-century scientific opportunity or somesuch. So we get the shitty gritty darkness 'character development' crap critics and executives eat up but really we get a proper Trek show that has to have action in it.
>Option 3 (unrealistic but fun)
Take The Orville, fund the fuck out of it and make Seth tone down the character drama nonsense while blending the best bits of S1's humour and SF high concept and S2's better acting and better episode endings.
>>
Quark - Fri, 28 Feb 2020 13:36:08 EST jwjJ078M No.69807 Reply
>>69799
Actually looking at it I'm proposing a similar thing to this but post-TOS rather than pre-ENT. I want a show that's mostly science fiction but brings in elements of the tension between those who explored and settled the frontier and their children/grandchildren who can't understand a 'non-civilised' mentality.
>>
Jadzia Dax - Fri, 28 Feb 2020 21:19:52 EST OHlds1Vj No.69808 Reply
>Takes place around Enterprise C era
>Small ship (Between a Runabout and the Defiant) is sent to check out a space anomaly
>Not even a real captain or any senior officers just a ragtag crew of people that happened to be on some starbase
>Ship was sent in haste because the anomaly is fast moving and no other ships were in the area
>They move in a bit too close while going at top warp speed to try and get a good scan
>Warp field is technobabble'd by anomaly
>Anomaly sends ship to a distant part of the galaxy (or another galaxy even?)

So its just voyager 2.0 but don't make it fucking shit. Also no fucking crew fighting each-other over stupid shit fake boring drama, the all get along and form a makeshift command structure.
>>
Captain Goroth - Fri, 28 Feb 2020 22:13:42 EST 2PMvnQg3 No.69809 Reply
1582946022988.gif -(458182B / 447.44KB, 500x333) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>69808
>make voyager but not be shitty
this is pretty much what all Star Trek should be
Be diplomats jesus, talk to new races find coffee in that nebula
It makes me sad that people arent optimisitc about making the future chill as fuck
>>
Brok'tan - Sat, 29 Feb 2020 01:28:33 EST CkgCKy7n No.69810 Reply
>>69809
>Image enters my head of Seth Rogen as captain
>Viewscreen, magnify
>asteroid analysis complete: 46% water ice, 12% solid nitrogen, 2% liqu-
>Computer scan for contaminants
>Ice contains 340 parts per million miscellaneous mineral contaminants, non-toxic, within acceptable parameters.
>There's WEED in that asteroid!
>>
Tallera - Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:04:54 EST hNf93QPA No.69817 Reply
Sitcom about Lwaxana Troi and her quest for love
>>
Joret Dal - Sun, 08 Mar 2020 07:59:23 EST juqYi6Pj No.69869 Reply
>>69868
I'd legit like to see an official Star Trek anime. The Japanese have a pretty interesting history of quality and unique sci-fi. Hell I'd love to see it just for all the unique alien races they'd create.
>>
Ensign Miral Paris - Sun, 08 Mar 2020 08:51:12 EST yW/tSq77 No.69870 Reply
1583671872964.jpg -(14676B / 14.33KB, 300x300) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>69818
Sure, just go ahead and make me sad for the rest of the fucking weekend. Great.
>>
Corporal R Richards - Sun, 08 Mar 2020 15:18:16 EST 9YtScXR2 No.69872 Reply
"hit the stop button and I'll zucc yer dicc"
>>
Krax - Tue, 10 Mar 2020 07:19:13 EST 4w4nkJvm No.69881 Reply
>>69792
Gay captain and black first officer lead a bridge crew of 1 middle eastern woman, a vulcan with a mental illness gene that makes him less logical than other vulcans but still more logical than a human, 1 android prostitute rescued in ep 1 from a sex colony, 1 klingon with enthusiasm, and 2 white heterosexual males at the front 2 positions taking orders.

The ship's doctor is a white woman who the enthusiastic klingon has an inappropriate attraction to, and she has to talk to him about boundarires between normal people and enthusiastics.

The gay captain might be bajoran too.
>>
Emperor Kahless - Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:56:27 EST f2MH1EjP No.69890 Reply
>>69792
(I haven't seen nor know anything about Picard)

Set 50 years after Nemesis the Romulan Empire's new senate accepted that the Empire is dying and reaches out to the Federation to help. A new Enterprise is sent into the Empire's interior to settle diplomatic issues and ultimately finds itself in the middle of the primary conflict which will determine not only the fate of the Romulans, but also the new peace in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.

This helps drop the baggage of cannon while opening the series to be both more scientifically accurate for a modern audience while also having a ship explore an area of space never before seen.

[Extra stuff if pressed]
The Klingon Empire is in stronger ties with the Federation, with thousands enlisting in StarFleet or living among the Federation. This sparked a large cultural exchange which would be a neat kind of narrative element to explore.

No Romulans have ever formally crossed over to join the Federation as a citizen nor join StarFleet but for this mission a liaison is assigned to the Enterprise (she is the expert on the Empire for the show) who finds themselves in social and ideological arguments with the Vulcan Chief Medical Officer.

NO KLINGON CIVIL WAR. The Empire might have issues but it is practically a trope (in a bad way). Leave any civil war narratives with later seasons of the show for when the Romulan Senate finds it self at odds with some other faction, like a new populous emperor/empress or some kind of plebeian uprising with desires to push the Empire into a new, radical agenda. Ideally something morally gray with both sides having understandable reasons but ultimately detrimental.

Androids are becoming more common. Most look more human, while a few (like the older generations) still have the pale skin. The odd quark of not being able to use contractions is mostly gone but the positronic brain is still really confusing and not as exact as engineers would like it to be. (If this was animated, I'd say a couple would even take on Data's form as a sort of honoring of him)

Holograms are still trying to fight for their rights. There is a movement and people takes sides, but it is contemporary arguments over recognizing the anatomy, rights, and privileges of photonic beings.

Section 31... it ought to be here somewhere. Maybe backing sides in the civil war for further Federation goals (as an allegory to Intelligence Agency of modern day).

The region of space that the Romulan Star Empire occupies should be an inspired mix of Maoist China, Khrushchev's School, and contemporary American politics. It should reflect the most authoritative elements of these times and places but remember to ground it in the spirit of science fiction and 'good intentions creating bad outcomes.'
>>
Lore - Wed, 11 Mar 2020 13:47:22 EST BnrdIjvE No.69892 Reply
>>69881
If they
>come from a Utopian federation that contrasts us with what we might try to be
>explore humanity using space as a metaphor


Then it sounds great. I know that's not the point you're getting at but it actually sort of is the point, or rather the bit that really matters

Bonus points if
>Riker only actually used the holodeck to visit a very brief window of ENT
>Neelix died horribly
>>
Deanna Troi - Wed, 11 Mar 2020 17:08:32 EST jwjJ078M No.69896 Reply
>>69890
>No Romulans have ever formally crossed over to join the Federation as a citizen nor join StarFleet but for this mission a liaison is assigned to the Enterprise (she is the expert on the Empire for the show)
I assume you meant expert on the Federation but this is equally as amusing.
>>
Molly O'Brien - Thu, 12 Mar 2020 13:11:55 EST f2MH1EjP No.69902 Reply
>>69894
Aw, thanks!


>>69896
Sorry, my grammar must be off. The liaison is Romulan sent by the Romulan Senate. She is the Enterprise's (and the shows) resident expert on the Romulan Empire (from history, politics, culture, and regions).

I suppose she could be an expert on the Federation, which could be played for laughs (odd assumptions and beliefs held by Romulans about Humans) or as a basis for some of her arguments with the Vulcan CMO on human and Federation history and moral choices.
>>
Dr. T'Pan - Fri, 13 Mar 2020 01:38:59 EST 5SVJcPG+ No.69903 Reply
>>69902
>The liaison is Romulan sent by the Romulan Senate
>resident expert on the Romulan Empire (from history, politics, culture, and regions).
Most everything she would feed them is going to be carefully calculated and probably half-truths at best.

>I suppose she could be an expert on the Federation, which could be played for laughs
Anyone the Romulan Senate would choose would definitely be an expert. They aren't going to pick just anyone.

Unless...UFP were the ones who picked the liaison in which case they would still have that innate Romulan-ness and would also be coached before going if not outright replaced secretly.

Even in the most dire circumstances Romulans still gonna Romulan.

Not that any of that is bad.
>>
Quark - Fri, 13 Mar 2020 02:47:34 EST c6jwWkKu No.69905 Reply
>>69792

Doesn't really matter now that Picard is happening - but

After the events of DS9, I would say that what Q was telling Picard in episode 1 of TNG is RIGHT, mankind is a childish race.

The United Federation Of Planets kicks the Humans out of the Federation for all of its shortcomings (The Dominion War, Section 31, The Maqui -- pretty much everything DS9 showed the galaxy that humans still suck for DS9 ratings) And humans must prove to the Federation that they can be a strong moral compass once again - Re-establishing the higher ideals laid out by Picard in moral test after moral test.
>>
Vekma - Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:44:42 EST BnrdIjvE No.69909 Reply
>>69905
At first I thought you were going grimdark but actually I really like that idea.

The main problem with the concept is that humanity is still pretty good overall and no one is perfect. Humanity bound the federation together but perhaps quite a bit later it's lagged behind?

The Maquis is complicated as fuck and the situation they were in was a result of a compromise with cardassians and the Dominion would have eventually put the whole galaxy under its heel so I feel only section 31 really proves your point and that is a small group. However there's a lot of space not yet discovered. Perhaps humanity doesn't get outright kicked out but finds its morality in question? The real challenge is making this map to uncountable billions. Perhaps it becomes moral housecleaning instead though?
>>
Nevala - Fri, 13 Mar 2020 23:49:03 EST jwjJ078M No.69911 Reply
>>69905
>>69909
You could run with something threatening Starfleet instead of humanity as a whole. Perhaps the Federation considering making an explicitly military alternative because of repeated wars and failings of trying to use Starfleet as a pseudo-military as well as explorer. Then the tension is between the rump of Starfleet proving that the morality-heavy explorer approach is superior versus the better funded military that wants to solve everything with guns.

Basically like a better version of Worf repeatedly suggesting the torpedo anything they encounter before Picard's speech.
>>
Lt. Daniels - Sat, 14 Mar 2020 01:00:50 EST 5SVJcPG+ No.69912 Reply
>>69909
>The main problem with the concept is that humanity is still pretty good overall and no one is perfect.

This plus all the main races in the UFP are as bad or worse.
>>
Mobara - Sun, 15 Mar 2020 14:35:40 EST mQLP28/L No.69929 Reply
>>69905
>kicks the Humans out of the Federation for all of its shortcomings

But literally all the other UFP species were part of the Maquis, S31 et cetera, the Vulcans in DS9 novels even become borderline genocidal because logic or some shit.
>>
Grimp - Sun, 15 Mar 2020 15:54:41 EST h25O7Piz No.69930 Reply
Don't get me wrong, I suspect everyone else agrees that the basic premise is really solid on humanity having to refind it's mojo but the problem is that it has to lose it first.

As said elsewhere lets leave our old heroes alone and have the decline affect new people. Picard should have been a man whose happy retirement just got disrupted by crisis and he has to pull his shit back together and hop off into the sunset.

Perhaps the federation just decides it's time to remove S31 and there's soul searching and it ends up in DS9 fashion replaced with something noticeably less ruthless but definitely not perfect. Good moral to because you can't magically solve any problem worth solving. You just keep chipping away and pushing forward and just improving. None of our current modern day issues, (unless you don't believe in them) have a single solution but just lots of little bits that will add up as they accumulate. A kind of realistic modern "we will never be perfect" twist without abandoning the ideals that Rodenberry wanted, that we should strive to be more and that we can be more and it's worth it.

Just humanity at the end of Voyager isn't shit and that's the main issue.
>>
Ikat'ika - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 02:07:34 EST zE4wINNO No.69995 Reply
>>69792
I really, genuinely, believe that it's time for a ST comedy. It doesn't need nor should it be a laugh-tracked sitcom style comedy, but something based on the inherent humor of the Trek-verse. Some of my favorite episodes of the entire franchise have been the ones with a heavy dose of funny. Tribbles? Anything with Quark in DS9? It's been proven that comedy sells in Star Trek, so why not make that the main focus?

It could be based on anything really. The relationship between a human starship captain and his obviously more competent Vulcan underling, or an unscrupulous owner of a tavern at a distant Federation Outpost, or maybe something as yet unexplored like a construction crew at the Utopia Planetia shipyards, or my personal favorite, a class of SF Academy redshirt graduates on their first duty posting to... the NCC 1701(A) under the command of Captain J.T. Kirk, who has a reputation of getting his crew members killed in pointless away-missions. We watch as one by one, the redshirts slowly get killed off, never knowing which one is next, and the adoption of some very black gallows humor by these poor doomed bastards. There's plenty of room in this kind of series for gore, sex, coarse language and some very dark tones, all of which CBS is pushing ST towards these days, but the whole thing is tempered by a constant humor that takes the feel of the franchise in a completely new direction. Ithi k the success of Seth McFarlane's Orville, obviously a ST clone, is proof that fans welcome humor.
>>
Jossen - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 10:21:21 EST jwjJ078M No.69997 Reply
>>69995
>I really, genuinely, believe that it's time for a ST comedy. It doesn't need nor should it be a laugh-tracked sitcom style comedy, but something based on the inherent humor of the Trek-verse.
The Orville? You know at least S1 of it.
>>
Lauren - Wed, 01 Apr 2020 02:42:31 EST zE4wINNO No.70006 Reply
I should also mention that I developed a formula for writing TNG episodes. I'm pretty sure it could be adapted for general franchise use. Check it out:

  1. Episode location
A: onboard ship (var1: non-Enterprise)
B: planetside
non-corporeal location
2. Episode antagonist
A: technical
B: alien (var1: Klingon, var2: Romulan, var3: Q, etc)
Starfleet (var1: personal, var2: other)
3. Episode protagonist
A: whole crew
B: small group
individual ( var by character)
4. Resolution
A: combat (var1: victory, var2: loss)
B: technical
diplomacy
outside interventio
5. Closure
A: self- contained
B: serial

Now you can create an episode by just randomly picking from the menu. Let's say we want 1B, 2Cvar1, 3Bvar Geordie, 4C, 5B. This is an episode in which Geordie is called back to Earth to be interrogated for (insert creative input, let's say his connectionto Hugh) by some Starfleet eggheads. By expertly navigating his way around the meta-reasons for his grilling, he shuts up the eggheads and returns to the Enterprise with the understanding that he may at some future time be called back for more questions g. I can hardly believe people actually get paid to do this, it practically writes itself.
>>
Data - Wed, 01 Apr 2020 18:28:12 EST h25O7Piz No.70007 Reply
>>70006
Yeah but that's the structure. First you come up with a good idea.

Then you put the polish and nuance that makes it work.

Like "Riker is an exchange officer with Klingons, and initially butts heads but both parties come away having learned more respect for each other's people and ways".

Then you apply your structure.

The bit that earns the money is when Riker tells his own captain to surrender unconditonally while ensign Vape fucks absolutely everything up.
>>
Minuet - Wed, 08 Apr 2020 01:38:47 EST zE4wINNO No.70070 Reply
>>70007
No no, my point is that the "idea" flows from the structure. It's a dice-roll kind of story telling that feeds the writer his plot. The only original idea necessary is the initial setup of the ST universe. Give it a try. Here's one to get you started: 1a, 2b, 3c, 4d, 5a. Go!
>>
Captain Blunt - Wed, 08 Apr 2020 03:13:44 EST n3sKn6mT No.70072 Reply
1586330024431.jpg -(30180B / 29.47KB, 720x648) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Well since the buzz is that we're going to get a Pike show I figure I tell this person to get their ass to also working on Star Trek Phase II taking place somewhere in the time between TMP in 2271 and TWOK in 2285. They can go in two directions here. They can have the show be about Captain Spock and crew with a fair share of herp derped plot deviced Admiral Kirk Cameos...or they can do something where Kirk greedily takes back the enterprise again by politicking and string pulling... (herp derp takes a voluntary demotion for losing two bridge officers [Decker and Ilia] or whatever). We get a mostly all new cast which includes the spockguy from ST Disco ( I think he did a decent job, much better than the guy hired for jjtrek) and we can have fresh prime universe semi-reboot that completely forgets the entire jjtrek vomitorium.
>>
Corporal F Hawkins - Thu, 09 Apr 2020 16:01:11 EST zE4wINNO No.70076 Reply
>>70072
I just realized that Disvovery's showtag is STD.
>>
Ensign Vorik - Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:04:44 EST DznTlomT No.70078 Reply
>>69905
I had a similar idea but never thought about humanity itself being thrown out of the Federation. That alone could be fun, what are grounds for Federation expulsion?

My idea was that Sisco's Pale Moon Light plot is revealed by a race similar looking to the race that seeded the galaxy, but they are philosophically the antithesis of the Federation and believe in violating the prime directive as a matter of principle. It gets so bad they invade and take over Earth, and the war machine built to defend it peels off as Starfleet while the more diplomatic Federation seeks union with the Klingons and tries to uphold the moral directives that the Federation was supposed to uphold originally. While Starfleet wants to reunite with the Federation an retake Earth, Vulcan's begin to worry if humanity is splitting in much the same way they did with the Romulans; one side being military pragmatists who would resort to torture if it meant regaining Earth, while the Federation tries to maintain the prime directive and look for peaceful solutions while exploring the Galaxy.
>>
Ensign Vorik - Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:12:58 EST DznTlomT No.70079 Reply
>>69995
this is true. I especially like episodes where the captain either face palms themselves or wishes they never were captain. Most parodies of Star Trek end up being Macabre humour. I would like a light hearted comedy of people in space.
>>
Ensign Vorik - Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:20:52 EST DznTlomT No.70082 Reply
>>70072
Honestly the 5 Year Mission volunteer casts should have their own serial and the same low budget.
>>
Mezoti - Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:03:06 EST BnrdIjvE No.70086 Reply
>>70080
Those aren't bold new worlds full of cats.

No, they're just /woooo/ emoticons.
>>
Travis Mayweather - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:51:13 EST 60/onCcX No.70107 Reply
>>69995
>Set at the end of the Dominion war.
>Starfleet is suffering from an absolutely massive manpower shortage due to the effects of the war.
>Due to this shortage, the newly-elected President of the UFP requires Starfleet to accept all willing recruits, regardless of gender, body weight, skin color or age.
>>
Porthos - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:01:55 EST jwjJ078M No.70108 Reply
>>70107
I'm pretty sure Janeway and frankly 3/4 of the rest of Voyager's bridge crew already established that competence is no requirement for joining Starfleet.
>>
General Krim - Fri, 08 May 2020 18:32:21 EST BBoo42qJ No.70196 Reply
>>69794

I imagine this kinda like Voyager, but done up like DS9. There’s a ship stuck way the fuck over there, but there’s a long plot that carries between episodes or even seasons.
>>
Trentin Fala - Sat, 09 May 2020 12:32:22 EST jwjJ078M No.70197 Reply
>>70196
I think you could spin this for a few episodes but as much as people love the idea an entire series focussed around being nu-BSG tier drama would get old fast. It'd just devolve into being about the drama instead of the science fiction. Like I'd love for them to fairly often bring up the need for supplies and be less handwavey about it than VOY was but I don't want every episode to be that. Sometimes it just needs to sit back and do a monster/high-concept of the week show.
>>
Tiron - Mon, 11 May 2020 22:51:18 EST BBoo42qJ No.70206 Reply
>>70197

I was thinking maybe having plotlines that stretch over three, or maybe four episodes, or by having the effects of one episode directly kick off the premise of another episode. Deep Space Nine pulled something like this a few times. The example that jumps to mind is in Season 7, when Nog gets his leg fucked up with those Starfleet Marines in one episode, and then spends an entire episode a bit later on ignoring worthless whiny bitch and annoying Vic.
>>
Nurse Alyssa Ogawa - Tue, 12 May 2020 00:07:47 EST jwjJ078M No.70207 Reply
>>70206
My bad then, that actually sounds pretty much like what I'd want. I know the DS9 writers have since stated they'd have preffered to work under the 'modern' streaming-permanent-arcs style of tv but I think the limits of still needing to be vaguely episodic help keep things science fiction not drama with spaceships I mean the occasional character heavy show is fine and ones which explore both that and proper SF ideas are great I just want to avoid S3 of ENT, nuBSG and that sort of thing.

I'd also look at how SG-1 worked for the first 5-6 series which was broadly episodic but with a driving plot and continuity that'd always come back now and then. Not just in whoever the current big bad was but in the little things like it being one of the only shows to have the characters actually reference similar previous monsters of the week when relevant I forget specifics but I think they perhaps reference previous invisible aliens when they encounter another one? There are other things like that. There was always the feeling of the driving motives behind what was going on and you could be reasonably sure that game-changing tech or factions wouldn't completely disappear after the episode they were introduced in.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 12 May 2020 03:42:26 EST b048m/L8 No.70209 Reply
>>70197
>>70206
>>70207
I gotta say the whole endless arc thing is trash, stories should only run for 3-4 episodes or be woven into more episodic, standalone episodes (like Nog's leg, or even Worf's baby mama drama in TNG)... otherwise you end up with a fucking soap opera. ENT S3 is an example of why this sucks... it's just too long. I know there's folks out there who like that season in particular, but for me it seems like a slog to wade through 20 odd episodes of the search4 teh Xindi lazar beem arc. Part of what makes Trek so great is you can just hop into a random episode, but that's impossible to do in BSG, for instance. I think that's largely why Discovery is such UTTER SHIT. It's like an endless 2-parter episode. Not from TNG, nor DS9.. no, it's like a 2 parter from Voyager, where somehow all of the two-parters except for Year of Hell are actually shittier than most normal episodes.

Just gotta say I agree with the sentiment here.
>>
Nurse Alyssa Ogawa - Tue, 12 May 2020 06:43:42 EST jwjJ078M No.70212 Reply
>>70209
Honestly even when it's not Trek the permanent arc show is hard to maintain without falling into repetition or ever-less-justified twists and filler. It's just not viable to keep doing 12 or even 22 episodes for 5-6 years on the same thin plotline and once you start resorting to killing characters off you've got to bring new characters in who quickly just become inferior rehashes for the originals.
>>
Weyoun 7 - Tue, 12 May 2020 11:03:56 EST BnrdIjvE No.70213 Reply
>>70209
ENT S4 was full of 3-4 episode arcs and they were the best of the show. I found S3 the worst. 1 and 2 were trying to be trek and mostly failing but then S3 was just a ballache. So yes. Agree.

DS9 worked with it's arc but it had a lot of deviations rather than every episode utterly in the shadow of the main plot.

The expanse gets name checked a lot here pretty sure you're a fan too because it does all the things bad Trek tries to do and does them properly. Because it's designed from the base up to be a vehicle for them. And if the author didn't always have an underlying vision for the big mystery he's doing a good job hiding it. Trek isn't any of those things. It's got factions who exist as stand ins and fluid science which does not make for a stable base to lay a huge narrative on. There's no big secret because that's not congruent with Gene's enlightened and ascended humanity.

Anyway my point is the big arcs can work. But not in Trek. The small arcs can work but not in Voyagers where the writing is hilariously inconsistent in both quality and tone. Voyager has great episodes but it also has take the cheese to the infirmary
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Nurse Alyssa Ogawa - Tue, 12 May 2020 19:23:01 EST jwjJ078M No.70215 Reply
>>70213
>ENT S4 was full of 3-4 episode arcs and they were the best of the show. I found S3 the worst. 1 and 2 were trying to be trek and mostly failing but then S3 was just a ballache. So yes. Agree.
I went back through ENT fairly recently and I found S1 to be better than I'd remembered. Not great but probably above VOY's worst seasons and S1 of TNG. Then you get 3-4 episodes into S2 which starts off stronger and suddenly goes to shit. The temporal cold war shit is also less annoying when you know the future guy is future Archer who's turned against the Federation for whatever reason.


>The expanse gets name checked a lot here because it does all the things bad Trek tries to do and does them properly. Because it's designed from the base up to be a vehicle for them. And if the author didn't always have an underlying vision for the big mystery he's doing a good job hiding it.
I enjoyed the Expanse a lot but I honestly thought the first series or two were far stronger overall with 3 and particularly 4 showing early signs of the issues I brought up before. 1 and 2 had a narrower focus, less reliance on the main characters randomly meeting in space etc to drive the plot along and with S4 particularly it feels like the characters and story is starting to get a bit too modern streaming show. I mean I know it's based on the books (expect perhaps S4?) but often long running book series fall prey to the same issues: see GoT, the Star Wars EU's post-original-trilogy books and so on.

Also Miller might have been a fairly cliché noir Detective in space but I think the actor pulled it off perfectly, along with relatively subtle acting the part of someone who's ashamed of who he is and starts to change towards the end. Ditto the man playing Anderson Dawes from who I got specific Gerry Adams vibes as 'high level terrorist who's publicly clean and much better at politics than the retarded thugs', no idea if that was intentional from the writers or the actor but it's just what I saw. I think having the two original mysteries drive the plot provided for a better momentum to the story too, I'll also admit I almost turned it off when S1 ended with fucking space zombies like every damn show must but I pushed through and I'm glad I did.. It reminds me of DS9 where we start off with nice exploration of the cultural differences/situation with the belters etc then randomly shoot off into high-level politics and ever more extreme conspiracy when I was actually enjoying the Ceres setting a lot more and Ceres also allowed for more side exploration/speculation, on the actual future setting while we've had less of that and more of space warfare since leaving though I definitely enjoyed zero g combat and the effects of wounds without gravity etc. Also it kinda feels like the whole water shortage and then food shortage shit they set up just both disappeared without resolution, but then so has a lot of the belt that isn't just the OPA showing up.

I mean all this said it's still hugely watchable and I love the production values just that I think it's showing a few cracks here and there as it keeps trying to develop new arcs. Not a flaw you notice during the journey but when you sit down and look back over all 4 seasons it's noticeable. Also American SF writers must be banned from including an episodes long fucking presidential election in every damn show/book. It's never even hard to predict who's going to win and it's just a waste of fucking time.

I could probably post all fucking week on the subject of The Expanse and pros and cons I got while watching it but that'll just fill the thread full of posts with spoilers all over.
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Guinan - Wed, 13 May 2020 00:09:07 EST b048m/L8 No.70216 Reply
>>70215
The Expanse is perhaps the only series where the show/movie surpasses the books. Book one is amazing, but beyond that I have to say that the show does it better. Can't really say that about anything else that I can think of. Hell, if you ever saw the movie K-Pax, that's almost a word-for-word adaption of the book, that's about as close an example I can think of. I never read past book 3 because I didn't want spoilers, but book 3 in particular (Abbadon's Gate) kind of dragged ass, but the screen-adaption does not because it's the shortest arc in terms of episodes. I hope this show retains its quality because it's one of the ONLY modern shows I like. And I fuckin love it.
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Ulis - Wed, 13 May 2020 03:38:27 EST jwjJ078M No.70220 Reply
>>70216
I never read the books so can't comment on their relative quality, from what I gather Bobbie is stronger in the tv series I think she's been decent and had some decent material to work with too. However if I had to pick another case of the adaptation beating out the book I'd probably go with the original tv miniseries of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. The book is great too but Alec Guinness makes it difficult to think of Smiley as anyone else. However the book is still better when you take it in the context of the entire series of books rather than compare the two as isolated stories. Also, while I'm not a weeb, there's the occasional anime that manages to outshine the manga it's based on. Maybe also Band of Brothers but that's comparing entertainment to more factual content. Generally tv series do it better than films and miniseries do it better than full on series.

If you want an odd argument you could probably make the case that, say, the later Harry Potter films are better than the books in that neither are particularly amazing early ones are also flawed, but for those the books are less so than the films but the films had actual editing while the books just ramble on forever.
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Arne Darvin - Thu, 14 May 2020 09:13:50 EST BnrdIjvE No.70225 Reply
I think that the thread derailed that fast says a lot about how even what nutrek is trying to do can be done well.

>>70215
Spoilers for people who haven't watched or read (DO IT)
I think the water shortage etc was just one incident in a history of the belters being shat on, eros getting fucked as an experiment by the major powers probably did more damage. It seems like the belters are starting to push back in season 4. A window of opportunity has opened and they are up to something

Also in the 80s Bobby would have been played (with less nuanced vulnerability) by Arnie.
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G'Quan - Sat, 16 May 2020 00:00:48 EST 5SVJcPG+ No.70234 Reply
>>69792
>CBS All Access today announced a series order for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, based on the years Captain Christopher Pike manned the helm of the U.S.S. Enterprise. The series will feature fan favorites from season two of Star Trek: Discovery, Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike, Rebecca Romijn as Number One and Ethan Peck as Science Officer Spock. The series will follow Captain Pike, Science Officer Spock and Number One in the decade before Captain Kirk boarded the U.S.S. Enterprise, as they explore new worlds around the galaxy.

https://www.startrek.com/news/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-anson-mount-rebecca-romijn-ethan-peck-cbs-all-access?mc_cid=420bff6927&mc_eid=3b91e5f5e7

https://www.startrek.com/videos/watch-star-trek-strange-new-worlds-anson-mount-rebecca-romijn-ethan-peck-cbs-all-access
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James Moriarty - Sat, 16 May 2020 01:59:26 EST 2PMvnQg3 No.70235 Reply
>>70234
Great just what we need, more fucking soft reboots
Fuck yourself CBS
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Biddle Coleridge - Sat, 16 May 2020 06:25:35 EST jwjJ078M No.70236 Reply
>>70225
I'm pretty sure I can see where they're going with the belter shit as from the end of S4 but I think it's a lot less interesting and certainly less realistic than continuous low-level terrorism eventually leading to the belt not being worth the hassle. Almost all of the cases like this in history have resolved like that and it's much more interesting to see that and explore the setting at that level than have a handful of characters, all of whom are usually related/old friends because plot convenience, drive the entirety of history. I'm a little more forgiving of such things in show like Trek because they clearly don't work on real world logic at all and don't tend to spend so much time on realism-side-content.
>Also in the 80s Bobby would have been played (with less nuanced vulnerability) by Arnie.
True.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, or if the book explained it better, but as I understood it her squad was attacked by the protomolecule supersoldier purely as a proof of concept/field test for the Martian conspiracy right? That or it was dropped on the UN squad first for the same reason. That seems like an idiotic risk to have taken given that it did in fact result in a shooting conflict and could have triggered a full war unnecessarily before the Martians had their full protomolecule tech in place. I guess it could have just been an escaped subject but I was pretty sure the show explicitly called it a field test.
I will grant that I was initially annoyed by how on the nose the 'one of the marines is bullied because of Earther heritage' shit was until they pulled out the fact the reason her squad was picked for the demonstration at all was almost certainly so they could blame him for pulling the trigger. But then again if her squad was the target why did it attack the UN squad first? Because if they just lucked out that he could be blamed we go back to the entire thing being far too much of a risk.
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Hugh - Sat, 16 May 2020 11:42:17 EST BnrdIjvE No.70238 Reply
>>70236
I agree it's too plot central but I think it will involve a bigger group. I guess we'll see where it goes. The collapse of Mars provides a convenient plot device to make this at least not just resources coming out of nowhere. I think the most realistic solution would have been dull so they needed a twist. Going back to Trek DS9 starts after those years of low level terrorism drives the cardies away. It would have been dull as fuck otherwise. I mean following a cell would be tense for a season but 30?

As for the other point
Also true, we never see the UN point of view and it's possible it was set up the same way for them. I wouldn't be surprised if their fire team had a similar sort of excuse, except they didn't have a lucky survivor. That said there's a comms blackout so who cares who engaged first? If Bobby had died like a good pawn they could have used whichever narrative they wanted.

Why create an inevitable war though? I think that's to ensure both sides wanted that protomolecule tech as soon as they could get it. Not only did the weapon ruin the squads but in that situation war was only postponed and still plausible with there being people on both sides who only saw the truce as an excuse to prepare.
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Prophet - Sun, 17 May 2020 07:17:48 EST jwjJ078M No.70246 Reply
>>70238
I'm fine with the fact that the fall/change of Mars is used to justify the plot from a narrative sense I just find the plot itself broadly uninteresting. What about that plot is true of a SF setting that can't just be done the same in any other setting, replacing superweapon space asteroid(s) with nuclear bomb, plane flown by arabs etc? Granted I have not seen how they intend to resolve this yet but what was good about previous plot arcs to varying degrees is they were either directly Science/Speculative Fiction or they facilitated the speculation alongside the plot and weren't just generic drama you could have duplicated in almost any setting. I mean you can use a generic plot for SF as long as you're doing some speculation on the side too, look at how Miller's investigation early on allowed a lot of side exploration of Ceres and the spacepolitical situation but when the show devolves into just being that sort of plot I can get the same shit anywhere and usually with better acting and writing too.
It also depends for me on how long something has already been going and what has previously been speculated on: if we imagine this was a standalone film rather than a series and this asteriod shit was the main plot but while following it it was the first time we'd seen things like how their FTL drives work, how belter culture is and how space combat works that'd be fine because that's your actual speculation that the plot allows you to explore. On the other hand when we've seen all that repeatedly for many years previously it's nothing new and we're just sliding into a generic suspense plot in space. Particularly annoying when by far the more interesting thing to be looking at is the not-stargates which I'm sure they will probably have running as a parallel plot but is likely to lose out to the much more character-driven shit involving Earth.

Also I'd just rather the show was just shorter than having to swap into pointless shit to keep the drama going. So far that's not really been an issue but it does feel like it's starting to circle around the ever-increasing-stakes/asspull writing/increasing self-referential or flanderised (I hate that term) characters shit that shows fall into after they've achieved their original narratives.

Again for the other point:
I hadn't considered that maybe they were playing both sides with that test. At least one side was obviously prepared as there was that drone filming the Martian squad. Then if you take it further like you suggest and it isn't only a field test but it's also being used to help the conspirators on either side push their government into war so the government's hand is later forced to actually use the protomolecule tech that makes sense. I didn't get that impression from what they showed in the show though. I know after the fact they make the point the Martian conspirators are using the negotiations to stall but that was only necessary because of the shooting in the first place.
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Mordoc - Mon, 25 May 2020 04:05:49 EST OEQGxrxn No.70294 Reply
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>>69792
Okay, new idea. Let's go back to season 1, episode 25 of TNG, "The Neutral Zone." In this episode, Data recovers 3 cryo-preserved corpses dating from the mid-20th century that Crusher then revives. One of these reanimated rip-van-winkles is a fellow named L.Q. "Sonny" Clemends, a country music player and recreational drug user. Ep. 25 ends with Sonny quipping that after 300 years all of his material will be new again and he'll be a bigger hit than ever.

I propose we find out just how Sonny makes out in the 24th century. We follow him as he embarks on an interstellar music tour where he plays in various space honky-tonks, gets in trouble with alien smokeys, ingests strange alien drugs, bangs strange alien groupies and gives humanity another reason to regret it's past.
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Corporal F Hawkins - Mon, 25 May 2020 17:46:14 EST jwjJ078M No.70298 Reply
>>70294
Let's follow the other two as well. I want to see the 20th century investor meet the Ferengi.
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Duras - Mon, 25 May 2020 17:53:55 EST bOlOhkyn No.70299 Reply
>>70298
the only Hyuuman to get a bar mitzv-uhhh totally original Ferengi ritual
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Nyota Uhura - Mon, 25 May 2020 20:22:14 EST jwjJ078M No.70300 Reply
>>70299
Better yet have him and Quark unite to undo the Rom-induced fuckery that DS9 felt necessary to introduce.
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Joret Dal - Tue, 02 Jun 2020 01:37:51 EST p0OfIDyv No.70330 Reply
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The USS Lee Harvey Oswald, crew of 12, plus passengers. Handjob girl is the ship's chippy little nursling, and her mom is Chief Engineer. The captain is Worf. Data is married to an AI starship, the Federation Junker Elite: Esmerelda III. But when Starfleet HQ is attacked, launching Worf's mission into Cardassian space, Data docks the 'relda inside the LHO, and he becomes the ship's DJ, and there are raves nightly, and everybody gets down, everybody gets busy, everybody gets moving. They all know what's up and they never stop. That's how it ends.
User is currently banned from all boards
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Admiral Chekote - Sun, 14 Jun 2020 22:13:37 EST BBoo42qJ No.70390 Reply
>>70294

The investment banker dude comes across holosuites, and decides to bankroll a program based on the musician/druggie dude he was frozen with. The musician shows up to offer “creative input” before running off to do a show on Risa. The banker polishes out the dings the musician left in the program, brings it to a nice PG rating, and Vic is born.

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