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Harm Reduction Notes for the COVID-19 Pandemic

Now Playing on /1701/tube -

Things I liked that I saw in the Picard TV series.

Reply
- Wed, 01 Apr 2020 22:56:35 EST nldWS06A No.70009
File: 1585796195331.jpg -(86240B / 84.22KB, 819x1024) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Things I liked that I saw in the Picard TV series.
ITT: We talk about what is good about Star Trek: Picard and the current state of Trek.

I loved Picard,
Why?
Because is brought back the hope in the future that TOS was based on and mixed it with the beautiful VOY theme of positivity as a tool to overcome adversity.

Yeah, inconsistencies MUST be pointed out so studios hire proper staff in regards of continuity and science accuracy. Borgs are NOT less dense than oxygen. Still, superb photography, nice FX, COOL story (brah), great casting, excellent pacing, and a sociological perspective on robots as slave labor with a peaceful resolution.

Humanity reaps once more the fruit of civilization.
Love you all.
>>
Azan - Wed, 01 Apr 2020 23:32:40 EST G6Uvl7yy No.70010 Reply
I liked how Data's children were capable not only of using scaremongering tactics, but of being susceptible to scaremongering tactics. I loved how when it would've been an actual good twist for the consortium of uber-AI to turn out to be the Q contuum, the league of AI which was supposed to exist outside of normal spacetime, not only had physical form, but were robot tentacles which willingly withdrew from battle. I REALLY loved how Picard was suffering from an unspecified, incurable "brain abnormality" that served no purpose to move the plot forward and didn't evolve any of the characters at all.
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 01:32:40 EST nldWS06A No.70011 Reply
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>>70010

>>Q.
>> SCI-FI.

Why is it that fanboys idolize just THE WORST shit in their fiction?
>>
Legate Porania - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 06:30:24 EST jwjJ078M No.70012 Reply
>>70010
>I REALLY loved how Picard was suffering from an unspecified, incurable "brain abnormality" that served no purpose to move the plot forward and didn't evolve any of the characters at all.
Being fair isn't that just ripped off from the last episode of TNG? I mean other than the fact it had already been given a proper name there as I think some sort of degenerative brain condition.
>>
KC Hunter - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:45:46 EST /k4yhqHy No.70014 Reply
I like STP for confirming that fan theory that Seven was in a secret relationship with Janeway and that Chakotay is gay.
>>
Fer'at - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 09:54:25 EST mw1AnnTr No.70015 Reply
>>70009
>Because is brought back the hope in the future that TOS was based on and mixed it with the beautiful VOY theme of positivity as a tool to overcome adversity.

You literally missed the point of the the entire series to say something as ignorant as this. Starfleet is a nationalist organization at the start of Picard, and by the end, they only helped the Synthetics because the Romulans were involved.

Parallel to real-life with Trump not doing shit about Coronavirus until another political power is involved (Cuomo, other state Governments, other country's Prime Ministers). Not being proactive or positive to overcome adversity.

Seven said it best:
"Picard still thinks there's a place in the galaxy for mercy. I didn't want to disillusion him. Somebody out here ought to have a little hope."
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 18:35:35 EST nldWS06A No.70018 Reply
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>>70015

>The military branch of an interplanetary Confederation.
>Nationalist.

That is the problem of using words you don't understand.
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 18:45:22 EST nldWS06A No.70019 Reply
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>>70012

Indeed.
That kind of tie in with plotpoints and themes from TNG where specially sweet to me, like how Picard's behaviour is normally not affected by distress, even under torture, but after being locust it DOES get to him when he meets Hugh and now the Borg Cube.

That is character driven narration.
>>
Roger Lemli - Thu, 02 Apr 2020 23:20:19 EST bOlOhkyn No.70021 Reply
lol you watched Star Trek Patrick
>>
Keldar - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 09:20:40 EST mw1AnnTr No.70022 Reply
>>70018
>That is the problem of using words you don't understand.
No members of Starfleet were shown in Picard that were not human or born from Earth (except Troi).
So yes, Nationalist.
>>
>>
Captain Edward Jellico - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 11:59:49 EST nldWS06A No.70025 Reply
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>>70022

>STAR FLEET IS THE TERRAN EMPIRE.

Would've agreed in disco.
>>
Keldar - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 15:49:20 EST mw1AnnTr No.70026 Reply
>>70023
Not in Picard

>>70024
Not a member of starfleet, undercover. Or did you ignore the fact that she was commanding the Romulan fleet.
>>
Corporal F Hawkins - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:08:33 EST G6Uvl7yy No.70027 Reply
>>70026
Do you not see the fucking uniform she's wearing?
>>
Kasidy Yates-Sisko - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 18:15:54 EST 5JbUjm26 No.70028 Reply
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>>70022
So does that make Captain ass holes ship nationalist?
>>
Captain Edward Jellico - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 19:06:30 EST nldWS06A No.70029 Reply
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My favorite episode was the introduction of seven.

Thematically the admission of guilt is portrayed masterfully in seven and Picards archs, the consecuences of duty failure laid bare as Icheb dies before the audience gets to even remember him.
This kind of bold decisions set the series next to DS9 in maturity, outpacing TNG, TOS, and VOY, who never really got out of the Flintstones kind of repetitive episodicness.

All of this while delivering the camp in spades.
>>
Thrax - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 19:36:34 EST D1r2KBSb No.70030 Reply
STP is in the same universe as STD. *sigh*
>>
Admiral Chekote - Fri, 03 Apr 2020 21:37:41 EST G6Uvl7yy No.70033 Reply
>>70030
Is it really so bad as every star trek universe being in the same one as ENT, in which millions of Floridians and Latin Americans die and never gets mentioned again?
>>
Gralik Durr - Sat, 04 Apr 2020 06:30:02 EST /k4yhqHy No.70036 Reply
>>70022
This is why TAS is the best trek, plenty of weird and wonderful aliens about.
>>
Admiral Owen Paris - Sat, 04 Apr 2020 08:10:00 EST OI3//Vl7 No.70037 Reply
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>>70025
You could say the same thing about the UN, World Bank, IMF etc as being tools of Triad dominance in global capitalism (US, Europe, Japan) while at the same time creating a diverse staff to create the impression of global multilateralism.
>>
Grand Nagus Gint - Sat, 04 Apr 2020 10:47:56 EST nldWS06A No.70040 Reply
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>>70037
>Religious
>Having evidence for things.

There is this thing called Google so you can look up concepts that you can't yet grasp.
>>
Jack - Sun, 05 Apr 2020 17:43:18 EST nldWS06A No.70052 Reply
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>>70041

The lad struggles to correctly use the world religious or have not seen the admonition. P much not a religion without the faith.

I praise his self-esteem, tho- as he obviously thinks he can use even more complicated concepts like neoliberal o nationalist.
>>
>>
Jack - Sun, 05 Apr 2020 17:53:45 EST nldWS06A No.70053 Reply
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>>70042

Less than 1 minute in and that... SMART PERSON,,, seems to think that the robot orchids the soong androids manufacture and talk about building more of are plants.

That kind of irrational anger could impair your logic to the point of thinking swearing is somehow an unbelievable trait for veterans.

PLANTS!
>>
Jack - Sun, 05 Apr 2020 18:39:23 EST nldWS06A No.70054 Reply
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The cherry on top is that the plot is the depth of the plot.

The foundational event in Picard is the romulan sabotage of non-soong androids as it is not regular terrorism but only nudging the human weaknesses just enough in the wrong direction.

A solid foundation whose very base is The measure of a Man of TNG, where the same problems of citizenship for synthetics is the center of the episode, where we get to know Bruce Maddox, who in a reflection of humanity as a whole is himself civilized enough to see the value of a person even if not human but is sacrificed in the altar of xenophobia by not Agnes Jurati, not Star fleet and not the romulans but the incapacity of the masses to withstand fear of what's difference.

TL;DR the returning characters in Picard are there because they're linked thematically and it makes sense for them to be involved.

Take measure of a man E09S02 and The offspring E16S03 and you got yourself ST: Picard's prologue.
>>
Lysia Arlin - Tue, 07 Apr 2020 12:32:09 EST pyyl83GW No.70063 Reply
I think the clothing is a step up. The flamboyance of previous centuries fashions on picard and others.
>>
Commander Dolim - Tue, 07 Apr 2020 20:57:35 EST bOlOhkyn No.70064 Reply
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>>70063
if the Romulans still had their dank upholstered David Byrne suits they probably would be suck ass losers in star trek patrick
>>
Naomi Wildman - Tue, 07 Apr 2020 23:41:50 EST TnGrpch2 No.70065 Reply
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>>70064
I want to watch them do an I Love It dance in those
>>
Thot Pran - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 21:16:13 EST nldWS06A No.70111 Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 06:15:31 EST 6HCZchAH No.70113 Reply
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>>70111
Little known fact, that Klingon was played by Alan Tudyk.

He was the only Klingon with two dicks. It turns out Klingons have two dicks at about the same rate humans have two dicks.
>>
Thot Pran - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:44:04 EST nldWS06A No.70117 Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Ba'el - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:53:21 EST 60/onCcX No.70120 Reply
>>70116
How does Starfleet treat the bodies of dead combatants, do they have to treat them with dignity, or can they disect them and shit. Is there a threshold, like borg are okay but you have to be respectful to Romulan corpses, surely they can take a peak and see what the Breen look like under their mask?
>>
Gun Runner Sakonna - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 20:03:38 EST BnrdIjvE No.70121 Reply
>>70120
They can probably scan and make a hologram if they really want anyway. If a breen has been through a pattern buffer or left genetic residue they low key know exactly how they look.

I guess they can store bodies quite effectively or where the personnel has said as much they could even hoover the dead bodies into the transporter to save space, though they would need to then write the patterns to the ship's computer memory to fit them.
>>
Guardian of Forever - Sat, 16 May 2020 09:20:17 EST yW/tSq77 No.70237 Reply
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This just in: CBS All Access is going to start another NuTrek show about Pike and Spock.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1261310215800012802
>The cast announced on Friday that the new Star Trek series about Captain Pike and Spock will be streamed on CBS All Access. The series will feature Anson Mount, Rebecca Romjin and Ethan Peck. No release date has been announced.
>>
Commander Sela - Sun, 17 May 2020 02:19:44 EST v/mIhHdg No.70241 Reply
>>70022
That's speciesist, not nationalist. Starfleet being a planet-wide government is in itself internationalism, it cannot be nationalist by very definition because a multitude of nations exist within it.

You can't extrapolate the definition of nationalism to the very concept of human exceptionalism or else just about everyone beyond Jains and the most extreme forms of vegans are nationalist by definition for not refusing to swat mosquitos. "Earth" is not a singular nation, not even in Starfleet's time as we can tell by the fact that multiple nations get represented onboard their ships. It's a unified planetary government that consists of many nations.
>>
Prophet - Sun, 17 May 2020 06:56:27 EST jwjJ078M No.70245 Reply
>>70241
>That's speciesist, not nationalist. Starfleet being a planet-wide government is in itself internationalism, it cannot be nationalist by very definition because a multitude of nations exist within it.
That's playing semantics somewhat: you could very easily be 'planetist' or whatever you want to call it wherein you believe whatever nationalist views but about your international union of nation states (or similar) instead. Otherwise your statement starts having issues with confederations. This is without going into the fact it's possible to hold multiple levels of such views at once.
>You can't extrapolate the definition of nationalism to the very concept of human exceptionalism or else just about everyone beyond Jains and the most extreme forms of vegans are nationalist by definition for not refusing to swat mosquitos
Being fair speciesist arguments for veganism quite literally go for that, except they fail to actually apply the logic outside of the easy level (eating animals, some other direct forms of animal 'exploitation').
>>
>>
Species 8472 - Sun, 17 May 2020 23:32:53 EST nldWS06A No.70250 Reply
>>70245

The central point of internationalism still stands.
>>
Jossen - Mon, 18 May 2020 01:13:19 EST v/mIhHdg No.70252 Reply
>>70245
>you could very easily be 'planetist' or whatever you want to call it wherein you believe whatever nationalist views but about your international union of nation states
This would make modern day internationalist communists to be nationalists. It doesn't work. Nationalism has a very real, very fixed definition. The moment you start expanding it to include everything under the sun, it loses all meaning. We have other terms, like bigoted, speciesist, supremacist, and the aforementioned human exceptionalist for exactly what you're describing. A nationalist would balk at the very concept of Starfleet as being a worst nightmare scenario solely because it is what it is: a planet-wide coalition where individual constituent nations are seen as equal.
>>
Dr. T'Pan - Mon, 18 May 2020 03:59:19 EST jwjJ078M No.70253 Reply
>>70252
>>70250
Neither of these change the fact that all the negative ideas you're attaching to nationalism could apply just as much to an international union of nations just with, if needed, a different name. If I took two nation states and put them into a confederation it'd be possible for inhabitants to hold nationalist-style views but for the confederation instead of/in combination with nationalist views for the individual nation states, something that has indeed happened in the past and arguably does today. This scales up perfectly well to a planet-wide government.
>We have other terms, like bigoted, speciesist, supremacist, and the aforementioned human exceptionalist
But these would not necessarily cover the situation. What if there were as indeed there are in Trek non-earth/non-federation human planets who were looked down upon etc as not part of that international one-planet union? What if there were alternatively an earth-specific planet-wide union that also included aliens as full citizens but opposed other planets regardless of species i.e. hardcore civic nationalism. Neither of these situations are based on species at all. You might get away with being as vague as bigoted or some pretty pointless term like earth-supremacist, I suppose, but then we're just into semantics again.

>Nationalism has a very real, very fixed definition.
Nationalism's definition is not universally agreed either, if we want to get into that. Certainly how many negative elements you want to ascribe to it varies based on who's discussing what.
>A nationalist would balk at the very concept of Starfleet as being a worst nightmare scenario solely because it is what it is: a planet-wide coalition where individual constituent nations are seen as equal.
This for example is a pretty sweeping statement and is not necessarily correct. There could very well exist nationalists who are fine with the concept of individual-but-equal nations as long as they're still distinct, continent possibly on just how these nations had joined up to the interplanetary union. Now that's not necessarily how it's portrayed in Trek but that's entirely viable with how some hold the concept of nationalism.
>>
Harry Mudd - Mon, 18 May 2020 19:22:52 EST pyyl83GW No.70255 Reply
>>70120
It's an individualist system. You have free lawyer rep's and online law sheets you have to fill out, like what happens when you die, cremation etc. They can tag extra questions people should be getting naturally right now, but humans are outnumbered because the energy from the liver only jumps a few meters a head before falling. Advanced gut's propell dark hard matters right around the Earth back again.
>>
Ba'el - Mon, 18 May 2020 23:38:50 EST bOlOhkyn No.70256 Reply
lol star terk patrick is still shit and only retards watch it
>>
Admiral T'Lara - Tue, 19 May 2020 10:27:07 EST mw1AnnTr No.70257 Reply
>>70253
Im the guy who originally made the comment >>70022

Would you not call the Cardassians or Romulans Nationalists? Since they are on more than one planet representing their Nation. Remember multiple races, exist on the same planet, but the National aspect drives the government (Central Command/Tal Shiar).

In the ST future, the ideas of Nation/Planet are interchangeable since the "state" system is gone-- with the entire Maqui subplot being introduced to show what a group that does not conform to these notions have to deal with.


>>70256
Mr Plinkett pretty much sums up my thoughts.

https://youtu.be/TwF1iri1GjQ
>>
Ambassador Shras - Tue, 19 May 2020 19:00:01 EST nldWS06A No.70259 Reply
>>70257

Shit, now my other post looks like I was addressing you.
Can you CHADS be anymore hiveminded?
>>
Ambassador Shras - Tue, 19 May 2020 19:10:55 EST nldWS06A No.70260 Reply
>>70257

Btw google what a federation is, mr "states are gone".
>>
Joret Dal - Wed, 20 May 2020 06:32:04 EST jwjJ078M No.70265 Reply
>>70257
>Would you not call the Cardassians or Romulans Nationalists? Since they are on more than one planet representing their Nation. Remember multiple races, exist on the same planet, but the National aspect drives the government (Central Command/Tal Shiar).
I would, but that's my point. I don't think going planet-wide or further magically invalidates the use of the term Nationalist. I also fail to see why, even in a union of nation states (or planets) Nationalist views or all of the negatives associated with it by the other anon, even if it's insisted on that the term changes cannot exist. There are plenty of forms of Nationalism that are compatible with unions of states, even particularly extreme ones, and it's entirely possible for someone to hold such views with regards both to their nation and to the next level 'up'. If you want to dig into it that's really how Germany functioned until the end of WW2.
>>
Joret Dal - Wed, 20 May 2020 06:33:27 EST jwjJ078M No.70266 Reply
>>70265
end of WW1*
>>70260
There's also confederations, which are looser unions. Though obviously the Federation is a federation probably, we never get much in the way of details.
>>
Brathaw - Wed, 20 May 2020 09:00:04 EST mw1AnnTr No.70267 Reply
>>70260
Federations are clearly stated and identified in ST, Nations are as well.
"Ferenginar Alliance", "Xindi Council", "Tholian Assembly"...

But to call, for example, the Dominion anything but a Nationalist state would be heresy.
>>
Lt. JG Saavik - Wed, 20 May 2020 10:47:56 EST nldWS06A No.70269 Reply
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>>70267

>Dominion fascist?
Yes!

>Federation nationalist
No!

Glad we're all finally agreeing in basic political terminology.
>>
Brathaw - Wed, 20 May 2020 11:53:32 EST mw1AnnTr No.70270 Reply
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>>70269
You can be a facist and not a nationalist (Nazis, NK), just like you can be a nationalist and not a facist (Today's USA)

just showed you dont understand the terms you tried to define
>>
>>
Joret Dal - Wed, 20 May 2020 11:56:37 EST jwjJ078M No.70271 Reply
>>70268
>Dominion = Nazi
That's not the same thing as Nationalist either, but I'm not sure you can classify the Dominion as Nazi anyway. Fascist certainly but they lack a lot of the distinct racial and organisational beliefs that drove Nazism while they match up far better to the early versions of Italian Fascism which did have some racial elements depending on what Mussolini was feeling like on the day but mostly was hardcore conservatism and empire building, a bit of whatever socialist ideology he'd read about last and so on.

It's hard to put into words but, at least in the 'ideal' form, Fascism's corporatism/syndicalism and state-is-everything ideology is way closer to how the Dominion work than Nazism is. Also Fascism is far more compatible with having the different races functioning as different fixed classes vs early National Socalism's hardcore revolutionary nature and later Nazism's idea of removing/opposing the distinction within the race as unnecessary. Everyone in their optimal place and under state control, allowing even for the existence of those who might be considered inferior, is Fascist where Nazi ideology would require you to purify society/the race of the inferior elements (not necessarily by killing them, shipping them out of your borders would be considered acceptable as well).

Obviously how both ideologies were implemented in practice is far different to their theory, and how they'd view themselves. Both also evolved heavily over time but, working with the early 20th century versions, if you were to ask a Fascist about how he perceived the ideal form of his ideology it'd be far closer to what the Dominion is than what a Nazi would want. Nazis would claim to be happy with a (sufficiently resourced and sized) racial homeland as long as it was within their definition of 'pure' for example, while the Dominion's active desire to absorb other races for reasons of control is in direct opposition to that. The Nazi ideology would be to cleanse those lands and settle them or to set up a puppet/client state of the local race if needed, but on paper to just ally with them or leave them alone if they had no interest in the lands and didn't perceive them as a threat. Fascist ideology would be the expand the borders for the sake of empowering the state and then to slot the locals into whatever role within the state they fit best, either without the idea of race coming into consideration or by viewing the race as 'inherently' better as traders or as warriors and so on.

A Fascist's ideals might be summarised, sympathetically, with the idea of 'everyone in their perfect place within the state, nothing outside the state' and then a whole set of extreme methods to achieve this. The state is a good thing in and of itself and is all-encompassing. For a Nazi the state is merely a tool for the protection of their race and their race alone. The same goes for a strong military in both cases: for one militarism is an end in and of itself and for the other it's a tool to benefit the race. And again warfare for a Fascist is about strengthening the state, for a Nazi warfare could on paper not even have an achievable goal and could be seen to simply strengthen the race through struggle, the winning of a war is derived from their racial superiority and everything down that line of thinking.

The tl;dr being that Fascism is compatible with a hardcore form of civic nationalism but Nazism is certainly incompatible with anything but hardcore ethnic nationalism: you could become a citizen of a Fascist empire through conquest and assimilation but you could never become a true member of a Nazi's concept of their race other than through birth.

I'm not sure which Trek faction would be closest to Nazi ideology, Cardassia is obviously mostly towards the Fascist end but we don't really see the motivations behind their system of government in enough detail to be sure. Romulans maybe?

>>70269
The Federation are not nationalist as a policy, but someone could fairly easily hold Nationalist views (or the many negative views commonly associated with Nationalism) about it. You might argue for Section 31, for example, though of course ignoring any canon from nuTrek.
>>
Joret Dal - Wed, 20 May 2020 12:02:58 EST jwjJ078M No.70272 Reply
>>70271
And I'll add onto that that I'm not defending either ideology, though I'd hope that was obvious. It's just that you need to split apart the ideological ideals from the specific historical implementation of those ideologies when you want to discuss them if only because how they were implemented changed repeatedly even in a single nation. It's much as you would distinguish between Marxist/Communist ideology as an ideal and how Stalin went around implementing it, for example. Though obviously history can inform debate on how prone to abuse a given ideology is, with totalitarian ideologies being far more likely to result in truly insane outcomes.
>>
Miles O'Brien - Fri, 22 May 2020 21:37:49 EST nldWS06A No.70284 Reply
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>>70271

Well, yeah, nazi is closer to the dominion than nationalism is to the UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANTS.

Man, do people actively try to not understand things?
>>
Captain Kurn - Sun, 24 May 2020 03:34:05 EST nldWS06A No.70286 Reply
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>>70285

Do you have some like religious thing with drinking, kid?
>>
Guinan - Sun, 24 May 2020 03:36:16 EST b048m/L8 No.70287 Reply
>>70286
more alcohol was consumed in Star Trek Picard's 10 episodes than all the rest of trek combined
>>
Captain Kurn - Sun, 24 May 2020 04:08:16 EST nldWS06A No.70289 Reply
>>70287

That's Scotch in Scotty's hand.
Anyway, should you be using a computer, Séamus?
Go to sleep, puritan.
>>
Tekeny Ghemor - Sun, 24 May 2020 14:07:22 EST bOlOhkyn No.70291 Reply
>>70286
drinking is important and should not be disrespected
>>
Commander Morag - Tue, 26 May 2020 16:38:14 EST LNOdPH0z No.70305 Reply
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>>70289

Did the transporter scramble your brain? He's obviously talking about nuTrek's tendency to show alcohol abuse as shorthand for "This character is DARK and COMPLEX, so they DRINK to show THEY ARE NUMBING THEMSELVES TO THE PAIN!!1!"

Sure Alcohol has always been present in Star Trek (real and synthesized), but the episode where Scotty has to Binge Drink some alien from the Andromeda Galaxy into oblivion is done to save the Enterprise, not because "Scotty hates himself and is sad because bad things happened to him."

I guess DS9 had a few drunks too, but other than Damar it was done sparingly. And even he sobered up when it was time for his face-turn.

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