Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the format Name#Password
Comment
[i]Italic Text[/i]
[b]Bold Text[/b]
[spoiler]Spoiler Text[/spoiler]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace Text[/pre]
[super]Superset Text[/super]
[sub]Subset Text[/sub]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Now Playing on /1701/tube -

ALL Lives Matter in Star Trek

Reply
- Mon, 15 Jun 2020 23:26:42 EST b048m/L8 No.70398
File: 1592278002658.gif -(738554B / 721.24KB, 245x245) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. ALL Lives Matter in Star Trek
I just want to say VERY CLEARLY that the message of the so-called "Black Lives Matter" movement is completely anathema to the ideals of Star Trek. Star Trek never advocated putting one group on a pedestal over all others, or taking out your grandfather's grudges on his enemies' grandchildren. This is a divisive movement, it's almost stuck living in the 60's when black people weren't one of the most privileged groups in the United States, and a harmonious multicultural society could have already been achieved if not for this divisive, race-baiting, and quite frankly evil group. Police brutality in the modern day is something we ALL enjoy. If BLM cared about social change and didn't want a future of race wars and segregation, they shouldn't have made it race-blind and SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT HAVE ignored cases like Tony Timpa, where a white man was killed in his own home in the exact same manner as George Floyd. Because he wasn't black, BLM infers he didn't matter by their silence. Thus, their goal is not justice, through the elevation of one community over another. It's about petty revenge, for something that happened long before any Hue-Mon living today was born. It's bullshit. No one, not black, not white, not Andorian, not even a fucking BAJORAN deserves to be punished for their ancestors crimes.

Star Trek dreamed of a future where people didn't form immediate opinions on you based on appearance., but where the content of your character was what mattered. It would not be a stretch of the imagination to say that Martin Luther King and Gene Roddenberry were on the same page. They were. And if you are a true star trek fan, and not some wannabe, I probably won't have to win you over, you'll already be like me, stuck in the uncomfortable position of neutrality between two screeching mobs of the most entitled generation ever born. But I write this now for those who know in their hearts that this movement is pushing society backwards, but are too afraid to admit it to yourselves. This is a movement of oppression hidden in the skin of a movement of justice and equality.

I've seen too many people getting their lives ruined over social media, too many people getting killed or maimed in these riots (and then not being reported on because it was a black person killed by another black person), too much division and destruction. I'm personally very strongly against it, but I dare not say a word outside of the anonymous internet because I've seen what happens to those who do. Same shit that happened to those that spoke out against the Nazis. Same shit as those who spoke out against communism during the CCP cultural revolution. I want to point out, yes indeed, black lives DO matter but only as a subset of ALL LIVES. This movement has run its course, and if you can still stomach the dishonor of supporting it, you are not in favor of actual equality. We are never making a United Federation of Planets if we can't get over simple shit like this, guys.

Star Trek might be dead, but it's lit a fire inside me that will never die. Can you say the same? Or will you fall for divisive propaganda and summon a world where people of different shades of beige can't share the same society? Being blind to race is better that focusing on it. It doesn't matter. If you think it matters, you need to get over that shit, it's holding you back. People should respect other cultures, but this movement has become about destroying history and toppling statues, barely any different from ISIS. There's no moral high ground to speak out against defacing some mural of Floyd when you just fucking smashed a statue of Thomas Jefferson. This movement has blown any goodwill it had in my heart over the past few weeks, and if it didn't do the same to you, I'd suggest time away from social media combined with quiet reflections of your values. Do you really want to give support to the Mirror Universe's version of the Ku Klux Klan? The only difference I see is skin color. And to me, because I believe in the message of Star Trek, that is a basically meaningless attribute.

So, if you disagree with me, I welcome that. Let's hear what you have to say. The biggest problem with the current state of affairs is that those who preach such a love for diversity of culture will allow no diversity of opinion. Sorry to bring this fucking cancer here, but I had to.

say it with me:

ALL
LIVES
MATTER
>>
Katherine Pulaski - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:12:31 EST 5JbUjm26 No.70401 Reply
1592284351921.jpg -(46011B / 44.93KB, 480x351) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70398
no man you're pretty spot on. it had to be said. a bunch of jerks are working ot not make str trek happen an using regular people as pawns with these divisive bull shit racial/identity politics. Fuck it all that is so not what Trek is and I even dare say VOY made too much of a point of how a Woman was the lead role as if Golden girls and the mary tyller more show don't exist. For Trek I mean, perfectly in place for the 90s tv scene. Hope you see this before the mods stop doing bath salts long enough to ban you or me nb for not sliding Trek threads.
>>
Duras - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:02:47 EST jwjJ078M No.70403 Reply
>>70398
Identity politics are anti-Trek, yes. But this isn't really /1701/ discussion.
>>
Willie Hawkins - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:54:34 EST BnrdIjvE No.70404 Reply
>>70398
In Trek yes. Because some time in the 21st Century human society moved on past a lot of shit.

Hasn't happened here though. No place for it in trek. But honestly this seems like a politics post and I thoroughly disagree when it comes to this day and age. But I'm not going to explain because I don't want to discuss it here you know? /b/ or /n/ sure.

Roddenbury was equal opportunity as fuck, he wanted everyone to be able to bone whoever.
>>
Guinan - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:58:13 EST b048m/L8 No.70405 Reply
1592337493878.png -(2194490B / 2.09MB, 1440x1080) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70404
So, would you say that the ideals of Trek are fantasy? That they can never be achieved in the real world? There's nothing in any period of time that binds you inexorably to the zeitgeist. In any period of time. You can be the stone in the river, the one who holds their ground, and in so doing subtly and slowly shift the river's course. Despite screeching to the contrary, this is not a situation with binary choice, with only two sides. Like anything else, the free thinker is not bound by such structures, except insofar as they have to be to not be ostracized completely by the current witch-hunting public.

How do we get from the present to that future? (that is, if you don't answer the above with something along the lines of 'the star trek future is a nice idea but may be impossible') Let's try that possible more positive avenue of dialogue..
>>
Michael Sullivan - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 19:40:39 EST byRgzBbN No.70406 Reply
"wanting equality" = "putting on a pedestal"

nice
>>
DaiMon Bok - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:02:59 EST 5SVJcPG+ No.70407 Reply
>>70405
>You can be the stone in the river, the one who holds their ground, and in so doing subtly and slowly shift the river's course.
Holy shit. Have you ever been outside? Have you seen river stones or, you know, a fucking canyon? Hell, even dams eventually succumb to the water they impede. What a horrible argument.

nb
>>
Tora Ziyal - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:31:58 EST 5IjuyRbn No.70408 Reply
Equality would come around from those crystals, if they ever get around to not burning them up. Looks don't matter, alien's everywhere.
>>
Gul Darhe'el - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 22:10:17 EST /1LRe1kX No.70409 Reply
>>70398
That woman's facial expressions are pretty irritating
I ain't reading all that shit negro
>>
Guinan - Tue, 16 Jun 2020 22:34:24 EST b048m/L8 No.70410 Reply
1592361264237.png -(446274B / 435.81KB, 666x666) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70409
To be honest, I meant to use this star trek version of the MTV meme lady but I accidentally the wrong image macro
>>
Tora Ziyal - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:57:40 EST 5IjuyRbn No.70412 Reply
I went to the future when I had the connection, I was passing by and used a large chunk of underground bank mental as a grounding spot and went through it. Came out in America many thousands of years later, It was multi cultural, I was at a dinner gathering in a town square from a central tower point.
They had advanced greatly in power understanding, but society as a whole was only a remnant of it's past self. There were barely any people around, vegetation grew over everything, cars and roads gone, no moving machines, most weren't educated and lacked the basic understanding to progress technologically. Small gatherings from the farming sort. Scavengers lay through the lands, they were the ones that dug through to the bank metal and disrupted me to come through at that point in my metal jump.
>>
Tora Ziyal - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:18:37 EST 5IjuyRbn No.70413 Reply
>>70412
There was someone visiting from South America at the table. People were darker skinned over all, the scavengers I was with were male American white blooded.
>>
Guinan - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:26:50 EST b048m/L8 No.70414 Reply
>>70398
Today, CBS is trying to spam a hashtag on twitter to support the BLM movement.
https://twitter.com/CBSAllAccess/status/1273079629062893568
Look at all these beloved Star Trek actors coming out of the woodwo.. oh wait it's exclusively the shitty new ones

Allow me to remind you that these are the same people who thought that Michael Burnham was the "first black main character" in Star Trek, that should certainly NOT be forgotten in light of current events. They didn't even bother to fully read the wikipedia on classic star trek, let alone actually watch any of it.

Identity politics leads to the Mirror Universe future. Prove me wrong.
>>
Admiral Nechayev - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:30:14 EST LeuwNIoa No.70415 Reply
1592411414509.jpg -(6857B / 6.70KB, 225x225) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70414
No one even disagrees with you thought, why do you care and why are you wasting your time with this shit?
>>
Quark - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:54:32 EST jwjJ078M No.70416 Reply
>>70414
I'm reminded of that retarded video that was being pushed a while back of some black female fan cosplaying as Geordi and claiming he was canonically a Muslim: obviously someone who has no understanding of Trek and was just hopping on the post-BBT bandwagon and yet being held up by multiple pieces of media as the 'new' Trek fan.
>>
Toral - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 15:34:30 EST BnrdIjvE No.70417 Reply
>>70405
Star Trek is possible but we have to move past a lot of shit first. That means making people in authority with disportionate wealth they got through opportunities most other people never had and people with power they can't be trusted with turn it over.

We have to accept that maybe some people do have it worse. Not to feel guilty about the past any more than we deserve to feel proud of stuff other people did but to look at what we can change and make better for all. We have limited brains which are quite to recognise and then impose patterns and are bombarded with cultural baggage. Some institutions attract people who lean into this and use it as an excuse to hurt others and punish those with the integrity to stand against it. As a culture we need to accept this and not get more offended by the idea of bigotry than the damage it does.

I think a lot of the goings on are being miscast as people looking for vengeance against all white men. You seem to feel a bit persecuted by it. If you're a cop then you probably deserve it but otherwise you probably aren't barring a few small minded twats, the sort of people who attach to any movement and use it to justify being evil and petty.
>>
Quark - Wed, 17 Jun 2020 19:53:06 EST jwjJ078M No.70418 Reply
>>70417
>That means making people in authority with disportionate wealth they got through opportunities most other people never had and people with power they can't be trusted with turn it over.
That's just addressing the symptom without addressing the problems that cause it, either in the full Trek sense of removing the idea of material wealth entirely or in the more limited and immediately achievable sense of removing whatever systems it is that lead to the highly disproportionate distribution of wealth without removing the concept first. Otherwise you just shuffle the system around so other people get disproportionate and undeserved power and wealth instead as has happened following more or less every revolution in history not just 20th century left wing ones either.
>We have to accept that maybe some people do have it worse.
This is true but it doesn't justify judging/treating people by things other than what they've chosen to do.
>I think a lot of the goings on are being miscast as people looking for vengeance against all white men. You seem to feel a bit persecuted by it. If you're a cop then you probably deserve it but otherwise you probably aren't barring a few small minded twats, the sort of people who attach to any movement and use it to justify being evil and petty.
That's a bit of a strawman: it doesn't need to be vengeance on one group as much as demanding special treatment for other groups based not on any actions but on arbitrarily defined traits. Anyone making sweeping statements about races/ethnicities/whatever else, white or otherwise, is automatically part of the problem. This also goes for anyone claiming certain words, foods, clothing, music and so on is limited to people for reasons of arbitrary inherent traits. And anyone claiming it's not possible to be racist if you're oppressed or other retarded dogma like that which relies, generally speaking, on a magical redefinition of the terms involved.
>>
Seven of Nine - Thu, 18 Jun 2020 18:45:02 EST 5JbUjm26 No.70422 Reply
>>70421
if you are here before watching trek you deserve it by now honestly.
>>
Degra - Thu, 18 Jun 2020 19:17:29 EST BnrdIjvE No.70423 Reply
>>70418
I dunno I felt like the whole "black people want to get vengeance" was a bit of a strawman too, misrepresenting a whole movement as if that's what they want. Saying it's about vengeance is like someone is hitting you and you ask them to stop and they say "DONT STOOP TO REVENGE BRAH" and then hit them even harder. All the black people I know have had faced problems I have not. I've never been bricked by skinheads, I've only been stop searched once while sharing a joint with a friend in public (so bullshit but legit in legal terms), I don't have kids so I guess mine have never made a friend and watched their friend get spanked for talking to blacks, people don't ask me "where are you from" and when I say the name of a British town I was born in they don't say "But where are you from really?" while I am a boarding school educated man which is funny because I'm none of those things and was born in Belgium and have moved so much I'd say "dunno lol" but no one ever asks me that because I look like American Jesus ie turbo honky I've seen this shit with my own eyes and the effects it's had. My friend was attacked in one of the nicest safest towns in the whole country and it really shook him up.

I think you saying that people being judged by things other choices could be construed in a lot of ways, I agree, it's ridiculous that some crimes will be punished more harshly if you're black, so again a legit grievance.

I think yes that abolishing wealth etc is a great lofty goal and would solve issues, changing power structures but I think that's a slower undertaking, perhaps addressing the symptoms while we work on that is easier? If I am ill and it gives me a headache taking some paracetamol to reduce that is not unwise, especially as it may help me sleep. Realistically those people in power are going to be much slower to change the system which gives them power than to tweak it a bit. So chipping at them may be easier. Seriously, if you live in the US or UK your "democratic" system is utter horseshit and everyone knows but it won't change because it has to be changed by the people the broken system puts in place. Why would Trump or Boris oppose a system which gives them total power with a minority vote? Instead they'll further change borders and stop black people voting (and yes they both do that) to entrench.

Speaking of, just before this... well look up Windrush. that's all black people getting fucked by white people.

I think that what you are advocating equates to "it's not perfect so lets leave them to die" and I think that's not good enough. There is a problem, but the reality is that humanity chasing perfection is itself a problem. Perfect freedom is the ability to be ruled by a guy with a big stick. Freedom of speach the ability to be drowned out by the loudest simplest lies. We should try to minimise oppression and think in those terms because they work better.

Societal change doesn't have to be full revolution and somehow things do keep improving. We are going the right way but we do need big pushes sometimes to keep us on track. The industrial revolution was full of shit but then the labour party and unions came in. We made the NHS. The problem is that these are pushes and then gradually it decays. We have to make a conscious effort to keep things improving. If we coast we just go into reverse. My country has been coasting on a lot of things to the point that actually maybe we do need a small revolution. Also some of them work. France is better off without it's monarchy.
>>
Guinan - Fri, 19 Jun 2020 20:44:02 EST b048m/L8 No.70426 Reply
1592613842162.jpg -(45001B / 43.95KB, 650x496) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Black people aren't oppressed in America and haven't been for decades
This is a distraction, a division.. this whole situation should be a discussion about economic class, not race. Interesting that BLM only came into existence during the Occupy Wallstreet movement, and also completely derailed said movement isn't it?
Almost like that 1% didn't like the 99% coming after it and had to do its best to sow division..

>Sokath, his eyes open!
>>
Simon Tarses - Sat, 20 Jun 2020 04:26:29 EST fFz/1NAl No.70429 Reply
1592641589828.jpg -(175954B / 171.83KB, 335x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70405
>>70410
>>70414
>>70426
>pickerd
Mr.Data! What do the sensors say about his power output?
>Data
Power at over 9000 teracockrans and rising!
>Worf
What? 9000!


But srsly tho who ever is trying to knock us off the trek future needs to stop it or ima be mad bro. I just want scifi to be a reality and it's so fucking close. Yers back when we had futurism I saw things I thought impossible. Where could we be now if we hd more Elons in the world? Hugh Herrs? Cyborgs man! we could be chromed up weed smoking space traveling semi-immortal demigods!
>>
Simon Tarses - Sat, 20 Jun 2020 04:27:37 EST fFz/1NAl No.70430 Reply
>>70429
RNG is prophetic at times. Drum Head is a pretty relevant EP right now.
>>
Kirayoshi O'Brien - Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:49:26 EST BnrdIjvE No.70432 Reply
>>70426
On one hand you want us all to stand together, on the other it's okay to target people based on the colour of their skin and give those people separate treatment? Even if we accept that black people are not treated differently in the US just most of the rest of the West lololol the police get away with shit they should not and that affects everyone. If they are made to answer for murdering black people they won't get away with murdering whites or asians either.

I get that the world media can only focus on one issue at a time but a lot of people don't forget this shit, pushing back against a movement doesn't speed yours up. If the BLM succeed it sends a message to everyone else that we can have change even when our political system disenfranchises and our media lies. Apparently in the not racist US you don't need this but the rest of the world does so lets get it over with. Occupy fizzled out. In every other country except the US I don't believe this but I'll concede your point because it doesn't change anything this is another problem and getting upset that your issue isn't first in line isn't helping anyone.

>>70429
>who ever is trying to knock us off the trek future needs
Rupert Murdoch

Not just him but he's the leader in media the 3 English MEDCs countries whose politicians shit the country's bed on a weekly basis.
>>
DaiMon Bractor - Sat, 20 Jun 2020 12:58:49 EST jwjJ078M No.70434 Reply
>>70423
>I dunno I felt like the whole "black people want to get vengeance" was a bit of a strawman too, misrepresenting a whole movement as if that's what they want. Saying it's about vengeance is like someone is hitting you and you ask them to stop and they say "DONT STOOP TO REVENGE BRAH" and then hit them even harder.
It's a strawman because it assumes everyone who points out a problem with the current situation is assuming the only motive is revenge. Though while we're on the subject demanding compensation from one arbitrarily defined identity because of the actions of a subset of its members to another arbitrarily defined identity due to the oppression of some of its members is bullshit and most importantly inconsistent (such claims, e.g. 'reparations for slavery', focus only on one specific historical injustice without demanding compensation for all others which is anyway rather impractical).

>I think yes that abolishing wealth etc is a great lofty goal and would solve issues, changing power structures but I think that's a slower undertaking, perhaps addressing the symptoms while we work on that is easier? If I am ill and it gives me a headache taking some paracetamol to reduce that is not unwise, especially as it may help me sleep. Realistically those people in power are going to be much slower to change the system which gives them power than to tweak it a bit. So chipping at them may be easier. Seriously, if you live in the US or UK your "democratic" system is utter horseshit and everyone knows but it won't change because it has to be changed by the people the broken system puts in place. Why would Trump or Boris oppose a system which gives them total power with a minority vote? Instead they'll further change borders and stop black people voting (and yes they both do that) to entrench.
An undirected and violent attempt to treat the symptom will not result in any long term change: after the horrific injustices that always happen you'll just end up back in the same state with a different set of people in charge based on some other factor that's outside of their control. Instead of 'they were born to rich parents and privately educated' you get 'they were poor and black and fought in the revolution' and surprise surprise that leads to very similar abuse of position because neither one is a good qualification for ruling.

>Speaking of, just before this... well look up Windrush. that's all black people getting fucked by white people.
One specific group of black people (Caribbean) being fucked over by the government, not all of which are white (not even all of the Conservatives are white) and which are anyway a vanishingly small subset of the entire white population. On top of which while it was an utterly incompetent and poorly thought out bit of legislation the intent was not to target them for being black as much as to target undocumented immigrants in general. The mistake that was made was assuming that people legally resident in the UK (regardless of skin colour) have any documentation: as a nation the UK is anti documentation, anti-ID card and so on and that's a great thing which has been fought for repeatedly (it's why we don't have to show ID when we vote, for example).

>I think that what you are advocating equates to "it's not perfect so lets leave them to die" and I think that's not good enough.
That is not what I said at all. It's all well and good to say 'those who don't deserve power/wealth should turn it over' but first you have to come up with a proper definition of those who don't deserve it, a fair process for punishment and turning it over and most worryingly who it's turned over to. To not do this and just aimlessly attack groups based on gut feeling is ineffective in the long term since you'll hit plenty of innocents, miss a fair few of the guilty and just end up with the same situation again.

>Freedom of speach the ability to be drowned out by the loudest simplest lies
Freedom of speech, properly limited (i.e. no shouting fire in a crowded building), is far less open to abuse than limited speech (as usual, who limits the speech?). The correct solution to the problem of lies is to educate the population to think critically and think for themselves, then they can sort through the shit for themselves.

>Societal change doesn't have to be full revolution and somehow things do keep improving. We are going the right way but we do need big pushes sometimes to keep us on track. The industrial revolution was full of shit but then the labour party and unions came in. We made the NHS.
The NHS was mostly a result of WW2 and a white paper passed during the war, not the labour party or any specific political movement afterwards. Gradual change is good though and there's certainly room for pushing the government wherever possible.

>Also some of them work. France is better off without it's monarchy.
France is better off now than if it still had an absolute monarchy, sure, but the French revolution was a huge net negative at the time. It led to many massacres (many not of the nobility), at least two distinct waves of political killings and arbitrary detention (after the killings of the upper class, these were of other revolutionaries and working class people), destruction of huge amounts of cultural heritage and the eventual replacement of the monarchy with a new, stronger, one anyway (Napoleon) which then led to the Napoleonic Wars and millions of deaths in their own right. After all of this France is still one of the least stable western European nations with its last successful military coup in 1958 and its last unsuccessful one in 1961. This compares unfavourably to European nations that gradually moved towards constitutional monarchy instead.

And the French Revolution, just like the German and American Revolutions, is a great example of unintended consequences since originally their goals (or the goals of the masses) were nowhere near 'remove the monarchy' but movements without proper systems or rule get hijacked by radical voices who simply accuse their opponents of being the wrong identity/spies/revisionists and turn the ruleless power/terror of the movement against their opponents instead of the original target. Once you open up the ability to, without due process, destroy a statue, imprison someone, kill someone, burn a book, remove their right to a trial, remove the presumption of innocence until proven guilty etc then you can't put that genie back in the bottle and after the obvious targets are gone people will start using it against unobvious targets without any checks or balances.

It's very easy to point to the most egregious examples of abuse and say 'this is bad and they should be punished and replaced' but once you start trying to move beyond those obvious cases and try and replace the system it more often than not results in arbitrary punishment (or killing) of anyone who appears to be similar in background and the installation of a new set of shitty leaders anyway. Usually this is combined with the fallacy that anyone who was oppressed under the old system is somehow deserving of special treatment/leadership roles in the new system.
>>
DaiMon Bractor - Sat, 20 Jun 2020 13:24:59 EST jwjJ078M No.70435 Reply
>>70434
And on the subject of statues it's fairly easy to handle: judge the person by the morality or ethics, whatever of their time:

If they were outstandingly ahead of their time (e.g. early opposition to slavery) praise them for it, even if only one of their views was outstanding and the rest just baseline as is often the case.

If they were merely baseline for their time but are remembered for some other reason e.g. an early Doctor with standard racial views but who pioneered some form of surgery then fine, as long as where relevant the context of their time is acknowledged. So for example if this hypothetical doctor had also written a book endorsing the then mainstream views on racial intelligence it should be made clear that his expertise in surgery does not mean his views on race were any more or less correct. This is the fallacy of appeal to authority, which if we educated people to think critically and independently, anyone would know anyway but education is another issue.

If they were, morally speaking, a monster in their own time then yes go pull down those statues. Hell I'll support that as a priority, also fine with putting them in museums instead where they have historical value. Ideally this should be done at first through some form of actual due process because as mentioned once you start doing it without that it's hard to get people to go back, if the attempt to do it 'correctly' fails then by all means go do it unilaterally.

And in none of these cases does the colour of the person matter one bit. This is a bit of blindness we see all the time where, for example, we have plenty of streets named after african revolutionaries despite their involvement in groups that routinely murdered civilians, tortured suspected informants and so on. Now that's not to say this alone disqualifies them from being memorialised, particularly if they changed their tune later on, but the very possibility of it affecting these memorials is ignored because of the colour of their skin and the fact that the civilians targeted were white (in, for example, the context of apartheid south africa). You can pull up similar issues with any number of other revolutionaries who are memorialised all over.
>>
Odo - Sun, 21 Jun 2020 08:29:27 EST BnrdIjvE No.70438 Reply
>>70434
The cut and thrust of
>use the system
Is solid if you assume that the system works and can work. I agree that revolution without direction or structure will end in disaster. I don't agree that this is primarily violent, it's not. It's disruptive with some violence. There are definitely fringe groups and having a central structure or leader or organisation to keep it sane would be great but that doesn't stop the point being valid.

Okay so lets talk about using the system. This is why the protests have taken the form they have.

In the US the current leader got less votes and is dismantling and ignoring rules. However I'm going to talk about the country I live in. Our current leader might be the worst ever. How he ended here is because our press has free speech with some limits, they can for example tell a complete lie they know to be a lie and their limit is that they must retract it later. It takes 7 corrections on average to undo a lie and they will generall retract a front page headline in the smallest most obscure bit but I digress.

This leader and his party have enough majority to do whatever they choose and they got 43% of the vote. A lot of people are disenfranchised as a result. Broadly speaking if you voted SDP or tory your votes go futher. In reality because of first past the post if you don't vote for the winning candidate your vote is discarded. It's possible for someone to get 51% of the vote in 51% of the seats and another part to get all the other votes and not be in power. Of course when you add more parties into the mix it means in many seats more people's votes are irrelevant then those who get a representative that reflects their views. Personally I have voted in 5 elections now and my vote has been significant in 0. Oh no wait, I voted in 2 european elections and among the candidates assigned in my region was one that represented me.

Okay so that's great but we are leaving the EU. And this is where I was heading this with rant all along.

The initial referendum was an informative and non legally binding referendum. The leave vote got 52%. At this point they leave lobby decided we were leaving. They did not have a legally binding referendum and here's the thing. If they did they would have had to discard the result. Why? Because they cheated massively, they lied a lot but freedom of speech and then pretended they never lied, they broke funding rules and thus broke the limits of advertising. Because it wasn't legally binding they got a slap on the write and a few months pay for Boris as a fine. So they fixed a non legal vote to justify a brexit. I could go on but the moral of the story here is that the people changing things at the top. Our current PM doens't use the fucking system. And it works better for him.

The system exists purely to disenfranchise and bar people from having a voice. Those who have money and power and essentially support status quo have their backdoors. The amount of contracts awarded to friends of members of the cabinet and then not delivered on the taxpayer's money is astounding. They bypass the usual processes we'd have and just award willy nilly. This goes back years, we had a war in Iraq based on made up evidence we always knew was a lie. We sold the post office cheap, meaning people who had lots of money made a killing on shares but the customers pay twice as much a few years later. We are privatising our NHS in pieces to move to an insurance model, despite the US model being the least cost effective medical system of any MEDC and possibly the world by a huge margin.

Incidentally in the most recent election 52% of the vote went to anti brexit parties.

People are fed up with the system. it's a tool used to bash us over the head and stop legitimate change and it is bypassed by people in power when they see fit. Be they politicians or police. Playing by the rules has resulted in no change, calling for a measured approach is just stalling. No change will happen unless it benefits the people with the power to make change.
>The current protests are a way to make it hurt to not make that change and thus give them incentive to enact it.

Anyway as for the press, in the UK they have too much freedom. Without context that sounds crazy doesn't it? Well here's the thing. The papers can lie, and I mean lie, not make a mistake, they can read a manifesto and say things which aren't in it are. They can make up facts without any source. They just have to retract it later (or not in the case of the manifesto thing). A front page headline does not need to be retracted on the front page, so burying it on page 87 centre left in font size 8 is fine. An enquiry quite a few years ago found the press had too little accountability and recommended they adhere to some code or standards which certain papers shouted down (the Daily Heil for example). If the US is similar then it's no wonder Trump can just "fake news" things. The media has undermined its own credibility and now there is no reliable voice of truth. How we frame freedom of speech with limits is key. Lying in a fashion which changes election results or harms people should be treated as fraud surely?

Really though what I mean is that the freedom to deprive others of freedom is a freedom we should do without. Being able to lie, yell over people etc does not mean freedom, it means oppression by the people willing to be jerks. it's funny you'd advocate free speech but advocate sensible rules in every other regard, limits etc. And most of them honestly are pretty sensible.
>>
Odo - Sun, 21 Jun 2020 08:30:30 EST BnrdIjvE No.70439 Reply
>>70438
Oh forgot one more thing. Forgive the double post

Bell. Riots.
>>
Seska - Mon, 22 Jun 2020 04:27:12 EST iQooFYps No.70442 Reply
1592814432942.jpg -(197729B / 193.09KB, 1040x838) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Kingon Lives Qapla'!
>>
Ambassador Thoris - Wed, 01 Jul 2020 17:34:33 EST Srn1Xlxm No.70475 Reply
>>70443
ferengi may be nasty, misogynist, materialist weasels but they're way more funt o hang out with than any of the other species on ds9 except maybe whatever Morn is>>70443
>>
Mordoc - Tue, 07 Jul 2020 18:49:46 EST IW4jumjf No.70483 Reply
>>70398
GABRIEL BELL IS THE MESSIAH AND HE WILL LEAD US TO VOCTORY
>>
Admiral Cartwright - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 15:27:50 EST O4E1UaD4 No.70490 Reply
>>70418
>And anyone claiming it's not possible to be racist if you're oppressed or other retarded dogma like that which relies, generally speaking, on a magical redefinition of the terms involved.
This one has always pissed me off the most, and now the people who make that argument have successfully petitioned the dictionaries to change the definition of "racism" to suit them. If you have the power to get words redefined, people fired, etc just so you can win arguments despite being a blatant hypocrite, you are not oppressed, and thus even by modern leftist logic you are being racist.
>>
Dr. T'Pan - Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:17:33 EST BnrdIjvE No.70491 Reply
>>70490
They haven't changed the dictionary which is funny as they usually make an
>akshually
Argument. Ironically they're usually on to something with the gravity of racism being much worse when you're oppressed by the system and in the minority compared to someone in relative privelege but by focusing on semantics they hurt their cause.

As proven here, instead of seeing their argument in all its legitimacy you're annoyed about them being petty.
>>
Yeggie - Thu, 16 Jul 2020 22:29:06 EST 7tdn6gsd No.70492 Reply
>>70491
if the argument stopped at that then no one would have any issues. The US has constantly changed to suit an ever broader protection of freedoms and equality. The problem is they have been heard yet still continued on to the vigilante phase. Thus enacting exactly what they have been trying to point out and change. Literally screeching in pain as they strike out.
>>
Marla Gilmore - Fri, 17 Jul 2020 05:31:00 EST szWBy+HF No.70493 Reply
BLM makes sense when you're talking specifically about police violence.
Overall, blacks do very much more shit to whites than vice versa in the USA which is why it's wrong to pretend like it's the other way around.
>>
Subcommander N'Vek - Fri, 17 Jul 2020 18:38:32 EST 2PMvnQg3 No.70494 Reply
Can you faggots keep retarded politcal debates off the only non shitty board on 420chan? Jesus Christ
>>
Jimmy - Sat, 18 Jul 2020 12:12:07 EST JbyLr5gR No.70495 Reply
1595088727610.jpg -(131590B / 128.51KB, 1434x934) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
I have been called a faggot or pushed around more times than I can count by black kids at school because I was reading a Star Trek book or would be talking about Trek with a friend.
As a white kid I faced way more racial bullying than any black kid today will ever face in his entire life.
These are just anecdotes from my own personal life but these experiences have contributed to my worldview. So when I see a hypocritical and offensive movement such as BLM raised up on a pedestal by everyone pisses me off. It pisses me off even more when it reaches things that I am passionate about. That's all I have to say about that.
>>
Zefram Cochrane - Sun, 19 Jul 2020 06:41:55 EST BnrdIjvE No.70499 Reply
>>70495
Yeah I guess being shoved and pushed is way worse than having someone literally suffocate you until you die. I mean Floyd George is literally dead but your feelings were hurt. And yes, that is a sort of bullying and it is on people your age.

Look. That shit sucks, and black people can be arseholes too, but how much was because you were white and how much was just you being a target they could justify because you were weird they were dumb, welcome to teenagers. But this is about bullying by cops and the consequences are far worse. Your experience was terrible but you are alive and can physically leave it all behind. And mentally leave a lot of it behind. Sure you're angry and you have every right to be, but to say that you being bullied is worse than people being killed for no reason is really perspective deficient. I don't even blame you for having suspicion towards black people for what happened, the human brain is evolved like that though I do think we should try not to carry that damage forward to new innocent people until we know if they're actually the same or different did you grow up in a predominantly black neighbourhood? I am legitimately susprised that you weren't also bullied by white kids as when I grew up in a predominantly white neighbourhood the same shit happened and white kids did it. I think that we shouldn't let our own individual circumstances crowd the bigger picture though. American police murder people in cold blood and a lot of these are black. People talk about "Black on black" and "black on white" violence but like the broader population most black people aren't murderers, they don't even know murderers. They're not even 0.1% of the population unlike bullies though so why are they used to beat everyone else over the head?

nb because I think this topic should fall to the bottom of the board.
>>
I.G. Tarah - Mon, 27 Jul 2020 08:23:35 EST iQooFYps No.70546 Reply
1595852615800.gif -(5221941B / 4.98MB, 540x303) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
being "race blind" also means ignoring the problems that exist.

Even Star Trek recognized that we have problems now; unless we address them, we can't hope to achieve the touted equality of the federation.
>>
Dmitri Valtane - Tue, 28 Jul 2020 08:23:29 EST bJrisuWk No.70549 Reply
1595939009883.jpg -(47319B / 46.21KB, 703x549) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70398
No its not.

you're fat

so stfu

you're dead bitch
>>
Guinan - Tue, 28 Jul 2020 11:03:58 EST b048m/L8 No.70551 Reply
1595948638590.jpg -(833698B / 814.16KB, 1600x1200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>70499
George Floyd took so much fucking fentanyl that if the cops hadn't shown up he probably would have just died in his truck, and no one would have ever heard about him. Instead they showed up and gave him a fucking heart attack. Why do you think they refuse to release the bodycam footage except to small audiences of like 5 people? Because if you watch that shit you'll see that he was incredibly fucked up, and a threat to the general public because he was trying to DRIVE. The truth is they don't want to release that footage because they fear RETALIATORY RIOTS, not against the cops, but against BLM. They're afraid if they release that shit and it shows the cops didn't do anything wrong and that big nigga was just being an unstoppable retard, then a whole new group of people start rioting and civilization just rips apart. Maybe focus on one that actually deserves justice like Breanna Taylor instead, that shit is completely fucked up.

>>70546
no, being 'race blind' doesn't mean you ignore problems that exist, it means you don't go looking for them
and don't worry, no one
NO ONE
is race blind anymore
all BLM has done is pushed the 'race-blind' category mostly into newfound racists who would have otherwise not been racist at all, great job.
'Race-Blindness' is something that can only happen in a society that has worked for it, carefully cultivated it. It's a good thing, the only way a multi-cultural society can be truly harmonious, and now it's ruined. Thanks asshole, you personally contributed to there being a looming race-war on the horizon. In the 21st century. Thanks dude.
>>
Corporal Kelly - Tue, 28 Jul 2020 13:13:59 EST BnrdIjvE No.70552 Reply
>>70551
>making it about one person
No. He was just the tipping point and no one is saying otherwise. As you are convinced that America isn't racist I argued in terms of my own country. I mean that's hilarious but I accepted it rather than argue it. I met your argument on my terms but you are talking about a guy they could have just arrested and thown in the equivalent of the drunk tank rather than the figures and facts black people have been trying to bring to our attention for decades. Even in the Fresh Prince (which is probably more canon than STD).

But fine I'll engage on your terms meaning that I will argue that the US police has a problem because those are the terms you want to engage on. I've given you plenty about my own local police force being at the very least low key racist. Which they deny.

He was not an unstoppable retard. They had him in a hold. He was stopped. They suffocated him. If the officer in question hadn't got a record of killing minorities I'd say it was probably just manslaughter through negligance but this guy had done this sort of shit a lot. He had contempt for the people he should have protected. But it's not just him.

Every organisation gets rotten people in, and in a healthy organisation people like him are limited by rules and ejected. When the body instead protects people like that and blackballs whistleblowers it's rotten to the core, the organisation is the hostile pathogen. And that is what happened. And it happened in a lot of police departments and then US Government's response was to help those rotten organisations. That means the whole country is arguably hostile to black people even if the majority are decent non racist people.

And when I say non racist I don't just mean "not actively hurting or consciously discriminating". A lot of racism isn't about active hatred. It's about people denying their subtle or even less subtle bias because saying "yes I'm doing something that hurts others and could perhaps minimise that to reduce that harm" and then following through is actually hard, awkward and humbling work. And honestly it's true of everyone to some extent, some people try to minimise it and some deny it, I mean there's people who double down on it and we agree they're really nasty but they're not the majority of racists, bigots etc. In the Western world the majority of racism wears that face, they don't want to push people down, they just sort of unwittingly do it. They've been subjected to stereotypes and even legit bad experiences and it taints how they treat not just a swathe of society but individuals. In short those people find being accused of being racist more painful than actual racism.


Unrelated to the argument. I'd like to point out on matters trek you're the fucking man but I often find your politics and other stuff a bit distasteful. However you brought it up in a thread on our trek forum

>big nigga
I'm pretty sure you're a white dude. You can slap an "a" on the end but in that context you do not mean "homie".
>>
Guinan - Wed, 29 Jul 2020 02:35:01 EST b048m/L8 No.70554 Reply
1596004501438.jpg -(218475B / 213.35KB, 1436x1080) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Look man, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really worry about the direction things are going in. I don't see harmony increasing between any of the various groups, racial, political or otherwise. I'm worried about that, I really am. It seems like discord is increasing in every aspect of society, from my perspective.

My problem here is that people who are racially sensitive are mistaking oppressions against everyone as oppressions against them alone.. and when that happens, an opportunity for unity against a greater enemy (the system) is missed. I'm tired of people acting like you can't be 'race-blind' because that's insensitive
Well boo fucking hoo I'm sorry I didn't notice where you fell on the beige scale
race isn't important unless you're a racist, I maintain that. We just now live in a particularly racist age, but it's in an environment where we pretend like we're the opposite. What bothers me, really is that people can't see when they've caught themselves in a web of illogical and contradicting beliefs, and that seems to be the norm for most people nowadays, to just live like that.

Maybe I'm too crass in the way I say it, but what I really want is some NUANCE to this whole thing, the black and white nature of it all just makes it feel like an even hammier version of pic related
>>
Dr. Yuris - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:03:41 EST dD28SoP9 No.70555 Reply
>>70551
"The cops are altruistically hiding their bodycam footage to protect BLM from violence because the guy who sure looks like he was being choked to death was actually just overdosing on fent" is probably the craziest tinfoil this board has ever seen.
>>
Nevala - Mon, 03 Aug 2020 04:12:51 EST BnrdIjvE No.70556 Reply
>>70554
>race isn't important unless you're a racist, I maintain that.
So you've never been victimised due to your race? I have to admit I haven't but as I said one of my friends was and it really put him on edge for ages. He was expecting to be jumped and told to "go home" again at any time. He didn't feel safe.

>My problem here is that people who are racially sensitive are mistaking oppressions against everyone as oppressions against them alone
Opression doesd fall on everyone but it falls most heavily on certain groups. Plenty of people recognise that those oppressions affect other groups but they get it worse. I said this before, we all know that if we do the tightening up of the rules properly everyone benefits. Lots of people know this and it's people like you projecting that it's all "me me me". I'll be honest, I think a lot of those black people are like "white people will benefit too? okay, that's cool" rather than "yeah and lets help white people too", but at least they're not pushing back against required change.

Regardless when you have a dangerous murdered on your police force and your response is to protect him, remove whistleblowers and gas the public your organisation (and this described a few police forces) is rotten to the core. Those organisations need to be replaced and started over entirely.

The problem I have is that you don't offer solutions. Just dismissal of the actions of others to make something better. Race is a deal you can't be colourblind. It's bullshit denial. How can you not be subject to a life of stereotyping and media shit, politically charged debate, even stuff like BLM and not see races? The idea we can just stop and flush that our our culture in a generation is absurd and simple. To become better people will take sustained hard work. If we stop ignoring the wrong and stamp then down maybe we will eventually reach a place where humanity can actually be colourblind but it doesn't work to just say "I'm not racist now" and be done. There's no easy solution. It will take generations of work. Just enshrining stuff in law isn't enough because people in power do what they want anyway. We've made a lot of progress. But the thing about progress is as you get better at something you notice new ways you can improve. If you can't see those you haven't come as far. You have a dunning kreuger bias at treating people as equals.
>>
Guinan - Mon, 03 Aug 2020 20:41:54 EST b048m/L8 No.70558 Reply
>>70555
Now that the footage has been illegally leaked by a juror, it sure looks to me like I was right
Remember there's a chain of command, the chief of police has to answer to the district attorney or what have you.. usually some sort of elected official, who in turn may answer to the mayor or the voters. But just imagine.. what of this elected official wanted to push a certain narrative so they told the chief of police to shove a sock in it because the two persons are on opposing chromatic political associations? Sure doesn't seem much like a conspiracy theory anymore
>>
DaiMon Bok - Tue, 04 Aug 2020 16:16:35 EST dD28SoP9 No.70559 Reply
>>70558
>Now that the footage has been illegally leaked by a juror, it sure looks to me like I was right
No it pretty much shows the opposite of that you schizo nutcase.
>>
Kayron - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 10:57:09 EST BnrdIjvE No.70560 Reply
>>70558
It shows a terrified guy being high as fuck and awkward. However he was not dangerous and that he was being a pain in the arse doesn't justify executing him. It doesn't justify them kneeling till he stops moving, and then ignoring it.

Maybe he OD'd but members of the public who weren't as close to the police could see he was unwell and the police ignored it and continued sitting on his windpipe. And the coroners showed evidence of "mechanical asphyxia". He probably was high and fucked up but none of that excuses the police for what they did.

Also the bit where they started hassling passers by for no reason was icing on the fucked up case.
> I'm going to stop and power trip for a second then murder a guy in cold blood.
>show me some ID and stand right there

The cops response was fucked up.
>>
DaiMon Birta - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 11:50:09 EST PmqEF9oa No.70561 Reply
>>70560
>The cops response was fucked up.
No it wasn't. You've just been lied to and misled your entire young life by a dishonest and let's be real completely evil and blood-cursed media. Media people who, if you investigate them a bit, more often than not seem to be descended from bolsheviks and other literal demon-worshiping monsters.
>>
DaiMon Birta - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 16:36:35 EST PmqEF9oa No.70565 Reply
>>70563
The biblical synagogue of satan is trying to tank the west, thinking they'll just go set up shop in China and India. I thought I was being pretty clear.
>>
DaiMon Birta - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 16:56:11 EST PmqEF9oa No.70567 Reply
>>70566
There's hope though, It's not too late for the Bajorans to be saved tbh
>>
T'Pau - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 19:46:28 EST FzyZN/hL No.70568 Reply
>>70499
>They're not even 0.1% of the population so why are they used to beat everyone else over the head?
Yeah that's how I feel about whites killing blacks. It's very rare and almost none of the whites do it so why is it used to beat everyone else over the head?
It's even a lot less common that whites kill blacks than vice versa so putting white-on-black killings in the center of the discussion doesn't make sense and kinda seems like just a racist attack on whites, trying to cause people to hate whites.
>>
Bernardo Calvera - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 19:48:41 EST pJrZiEQr No.70569 Reply
>>70495
>As a white kid I faced way more racial bullying than any black kid today will ever face in his entire life.
Black people generally do not open up fully to even their white friends about what they have experienced because the response is hostility, disbelief, or discomfort. That makes you think everyone is living life like you From your comments, I can tell that we are not. I have had grown men threatening my family with death, calling me a mongrel and a filthy n_, from the time I was a small child. My grandmother had to live in mortal danger and poverty her whole life because she was not legally allowed to live in a good neighborhood in the north, and lived under a terrorist regime in the south. this alone rippled through the lives of her children and her children's children in terrible ways.

75 years from now even racists are going to be bootlicking the more respectable BLM supporters like they do now with the mid-20th century civil rights movement (see: John Lewis). It's going to be taken as a given that 2020 was shitty for blacks and is not something to return to, and I hope I'm alive to see it and laugh. A civil rights movement is happening right now, goofus. Bumpy process towards a better future underway. You're missing it.

nb cause none of this belongs here in the first damn place. I guess I'm just tossing dung into the shitstorm but I'm feeling especially butthurt today
>>
Corporal F Hawkins - Wed, 05 Aug 2020 20:16:26 EST PmqEF9oa No.70570 Reply
>>70569
If you're going to start somewhere please start with admitting the very real and widely known genetic mutations that put blacks at a greatly increased risk of stabbing and shooting behaviors, rapes, and general low impulse control. The 5% committing 50% thing isn't just a dumb internet meme.
>>
Colonel Lovok - Thu, 06 Aug 2020 04:17:41 EST BnrdIjvE No.70571 Reply
>>70568
It largely isn't. Unless they kill them because they're black. And get away with it. And the debate becomes about whether the black guy committed theft not that two guys (one an ex cop) shot a man in cold blood, they chased him down and shot him as he fled. Kind of like the Floyd George. Yeah he was being a dick. That doesn't justify murder.

I could say facetiously that cops aren't whites, they aren't even human.

I cannot talk about how black people feel but I am a crackerchalky, I am a whitewashed jesus looking heavy metal nerd trekkie white boy and I do not feel attacked. None of my white friends feel attacked. We know we're not perfect and no one can completely not discriminate but that's fine, you just do your best and keep learning. I think it's insecure people deflecting their guilt, because they would rather oppress black people than be called racist. They'd rather see pointless death than admit that self improvement is an ongoing process. That is because they are precious delicate snowflakes. And racists.

Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.