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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

BWGQ: Bump with Gabaergic Questions

Reply
- Mon, 09 Sep 2019 01:31:59 EST Jlot+jMU No.147045
File: 1568007119242.png -(160119B / 156.37KB, 405x365) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. BWGQ: Bump with Gabaergic Questions
Post any questions regarding Benzodiazepines or Gabaergic chemicals and I will answer. I thought it would be nice to give back, I will do my utmost to be your personal anxiolytic medication.

Worried you have taken too much?
Substance interactions?
Health concerns?
Taper advice?

For both therapeutic and recreational information please first see if your questions can be sufficiently answered by:

Professor C. Heather Ashton - Benzodiazepines: How they work & How to withdraw (aka The Ashton Manual)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsjhqdE7-6A
>>
totally unofficial medical advice from a nobody - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 16:48:48 EST gACrxJp9 No.147053 Reply
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>>147045
wait, who are you exactly?

Well if you could look at this thread
https://boards.420chan.org/benz/thread/145779#i145779

tldnr, went binging on xannies from deepweb for a while due to horrible bereavement, stopped for a few weeks and had 2 grandmal seizures within 24hrs, first one had an aura of a metalic taste in my mouth and weird feeling and the thought "feel like im going to have a seizure"
that was over a year ago
was it the benzos?
>>
totally unofficial medical advice from a nobody - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 17:12:52 EST gACrxJp9 No.147054 Reply
>>147053
forgot to say thank you
>>
Albert Fanshaw - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 18:41:27 EST gj4uC5KA No.147055 Reply
>>147045
Cool, but who are you? A doctor? Addiction therapist who worked with benz users mainly?

I appreciate the idea, don''t get me wrong. Still if you don't have any credentials to give such advice (reading wikipedia and using benzos for 3/4 of your life doesn't count btw) I'd rather not risk my life or health and I advise others to not do this as well.
And yeah ashton manual is great but it's not enough to be this board doc.
>>
Chan - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 19:40:54 EST Jlot+jMU No.147059 Reply
>>147053
>Disclaimer: totally unofficial medical advice from a nobody
>It is of the utmost importance to seek professional advice with the chemicals
(Should of included this in the original post, my apologies.)

Posted in BWB for a bit and have some level of knowledge about the pharmacology of these chemicals and others. That is basically it. I see a lot of posts from novice users of gabaergic chemicals along with long time users and thought my knowledge could be helpful.

>Was it the benzos?
I have read your post and sorry for your loss. I wish for your good health.
So on the assumption that what you bought was actual Alprazolam. My presumption between the time of discontinuing Alprazolam and the Grand-Mal Seziure's was that there were multiple factors which would have induced them. You have said since that time you have not experienced anymore, so they can be seen as an acute & atypical response (without knowing prior medical history). In desceding order the possibilities are:
Acute Stress Response (Caused by acute stress and/or lifestyle changes such as diet.), Seziure lowering substances post-Alprazolam, Imbalance of GABA/Atypical GABA modulation, Unknown benzodiazepine, Alprazolam (Benzodiazepine AWD) (Half life is extremely short, however I believe it binds very strongly.)
TLDR: It would seem the cause was 'of the situation' rather than benzodiazepines but they have also played a factor as you have not had them pre-nor-post usage from my understanding of your post.

>>147055
>Nobody, No, No.
I agree with everything in your post & should stated as such. I was naive to the fact of someone taking this professional advice of which it is not.
>>
Ian Blathershit - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 21:12:17 EST m6zqruw6 No.147060 Reply
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>>147059
basically, yes, it was because of the benzos. certain other things may have helped lower the threshold, like lack of sleep if that was case, stress and anxiety from the withdrawal, etc. but it was definitely benzo wd in the end.

also, we can deduce from the fact youve never had not had them before or after the incident, as Chan said, that it was acutely from benzo wd.

Chan definitely give that disclaimer. a lot of people here really know their pharmacology and some even chemistry (not myself for the latter), so if you say something blatantly wrong, you're going to have your ass roasted hard considering you came out acting like a doctor. im all for it, just make sure you know your shit.
>>
Wesley Fendlefuck - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 21:51:01 EST 6XW6Jo4F No.147061 Reply
>>147045
I have been using various benzos (Diazepam, Oxazepam, Alprazolam, Clonazepam, Bromazepam) at around 2-3 times a week, often in a row for 2 years, not doing any for about 10-14days once a month or two to ground myself somewhat.

I use about 3mg a week across 2.5 days on average, I actually have a full table of usage on my PC but can't be bothered to compile it.

Around 36-48hrs after my last dose I get rebound/withdrawal effects that are mild enough to allow me to have a full night's off restless sleep (An oxymoron, I know) about every 20 hours, thus stretching my days to like 26-30hrs which is not really good for a person that's supposed to be productive. I haven't slept on a normal schedule in years despite being in college.

15mg Diazepam makes me not sick for about 2, maybe 3 days. My last dose was 25mg Diaz on Thu and 12mg on Fri and I felt the rebound seeping in yesterday, feeling it almost fully today.
Typically it takes around 8-10 days to feel 75% baseline but I can rarely resist it and keep myself in a perpetual state of rebound.

My dilemma is:

1) Should I just jump the fuck off while I still can and not make myself a permanently anxious wreck at 20?
2) Should I dump pharma for Etizolam 2-3x week for anxiety reduction (as it's less addictive due to preferable GABAa subunit binding affinities) and something like F-Phenibut 2x month for recreation?
>>
Chan - Mon, 09 Sep 2019 23:43:07 EST Jlot+jMU No.147062 Reply
>>147061
>Disclaimer: totally unofficial/non-professional medical advice from a nobody
>It is of the utmost importance to seek professional advice with these chemicals


The way you structured this is extremely confusing. I will try my utmost to understand but specifics are generally preferable when trying to understand what is causing the issues. First will be information. Second will address your specific questions.
>3mg a week across 2.5 days on average
>2-3 times a week, often in a row for 2 years, not doing any for about 10-14days once a month or two

Descending order of potency (Approx.):
Alprazolam/Clonazepam, Bromazepam, Diazepam, Oxazepam.
Descending order of Half-Life - Highest to lowest (Approx.):
Diazepam, Clonazepam, Bromazepam, Alprazolam, Oxazepam

Assuming you are taking the highest potency benzodiazepines:
1) The Diazepam maintenance adds up.
(Not sick for 2-3 days -Diazepam Half-life is 1- 4 days, -Diazepam's metabolites Half-life is 1.5 - 7.3 days)
2) The rebound/withdrawal effects depending the chemical or combination of chemicals. Correlate closely/likely to that of dosages of Alprazolam/Clonazepam.
(Diazepam = 1.0 / Bromazepam = x1.5 / Oxazepam = x0.5 / Alprazolam/Clonazepam = x2.0)
However you say that rebound/withdrawal effects are mild enough after 36-48 Hours (1.5-2 Days) to at least have some level asleep albeit restless.
From that I am assuming that you have significant rebound/withdrawal effects between 0-36 Hours and intensely 0-16-24 Hours.
Assuming again you are taking the highest potency or its equivalent. Alprazolam, Oxazepam fit the closest (However Alprazolam makes more sense due to dosages required of Oxazepam). However if you are saying rebound/withdrawal effects are only present by then and are mild, Clonazepam is a possibility.

>1) Should I just jump the fuck off while I still can and not make myself a permanently anxious wreck at 20?
If possible drug-free living is preferable however obvious exceptions exist. If this is purely recreational and is not because of pre-existing disorders requiring such medications then yes I would abstain from benzodiazepines. Due to length of usage, dosages & variety of the benzodiazepines you have used I would strongly recommend a taper administered by a professional and strongly if not out right disagree with self-tapering due to your circumstances. TLDR: Yes & Talk to a doctor about getting off them.

>2) Should I dump pharma for Etizolam 2-3x week for anxiety reduction (as it's less addictive due to preferable GABAa subunit binding affinities) and something like F-Phenibut 2x month for recreation?
I assume that neither Etizolam or F-Phenibut are medications approved in your country. I would also then assume that this would be self-diagnosing and subsequently self-medicating. So on that assumption I would not take non-approved medications and stick with approved medications (Pharmaceuticals).
However if you disagree, then lowest possible dosages are recommended recreationally or medically, I would also only recommend using Etizolam for both purposes (multiple chemicals create multiple problems that require multiple solutions). Again I would strongly suggest against using both Etizolam & F-Phenibut for either reason you have stated. TLDR: Stick to approved medications, appropriate & safe doses and using only when required.

>>147060
Noted. I didn't think I sounded like a doctor but reading it again, I understand why people would make that false presumption.
I am going try provide the best possible strings of words in a logical order as to avoid backlash. Appreciated & again noted.
>>
Phoebe Clommlespear - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 19:22:18 EST qCwoBzWk No.147064 Reply
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>>147062
I take 10mg of Diazepam every day in the morning. I feel a bit off the next morning. If I don't redose for 48 hours I get blacked out vision and feel like I'm going to die. I've been taking benzos for 4 years. Is this normal? Also if I take 20-30mg instead of 10mg everything feels really easy and generally good things happen to me that can have a long term positive impact on my life. Why are benzos so good at making one incredible at everything they do (limited up to their individual ability). YES. what would be the problem of entire life use if oyu had the supply?
>>
Chan - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:13:57 EST Jlot+jMU No.147065 Reply
>>147064
>Disclaimer: totally unofficial/non-professional medical advice from a nobody
>It is of the utmost importance to seek professional advice with these chemicals


>I take 10mg of Diazepam every day in the morning. I feel a bit off the next morning. If I don't redose for 48 hours I get blacked out vision and feel like I'm going to die. I've been taking benzos for 4 years. Is this normal?
No it is not normal, seek professional medical advice immediately.

>Also if I take 20-30mg instead of 10mg everything feels really easy and generally good things happen to me that can have a long term positive impact on my life. Why are benzos so good at making one incredible at everything they do (limited up to their individual ability).
Not in referencing to your dosing but to the wider statement/question. They lower your inhibitions, therefore you are not overly concerned about various elements of your life that would otherwise concern you and preoccupy your time. Since your time is now not occupied by those concerns you are able to do what you could 'normally' do. Generally that effect is only felt with effective high doses of benzodiazepines or if a person is suffering from a psychological impairment that without the use of benzodiazepines would be debilitating and cause the them a profound sense of disorder & inability to do tasks within their lives.
The latter is generally where the effects you stated usually appear, albeit if you take a high enough dose you may feel incredible but I would liken that more-so to Alcohol inhibition.

>what would be the problem of entire life use if oyu had the supply?
Tolerance build up and therefore higher likelihood of undesirable effects.
Abnormal brain chemistry after extended & prolonged use (Down-regulation of the GABA neurotransmitter).
Inability to do various jobs or to travel to certain countries.
Neurological damage. Benzodiazepines have been linked (I can't remember if it was a strong or weak link) to neurological conditions such as dementia.
Those are a few reasons but I am sure there are many more.
>>
Phoebe Grandstock - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:27:35 EST sgH80cUy No.147066 Reply
  • 2mg xanax
  • 10mg methadone

Damn I love benzos!
>>
Dr. Katz !KqgSR25gAQ - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:30:00 EST qkzTPNFj No.147069 Reply
>>147065
Common meds like DPH (Benadryl) and anti-histamines in general have shown a statistically significant correlation with dementia. However, when thinking of the population who are most commonly on benzodiazepines and most commonly diagnosed with dementia, well, we're talking about older/elderly/geriatric populations. The correlation of benzos or DPH with dementia is important to consider, but next to no studies have been completed on young or even middle-aged adults (to my knowledge). I think there is an undeniable possibility of some people experiencing dementia-like symptoms after prolonged benzo usage, but we do not have enough research to factually state that benzodiazepines increase the rate of dementia by x% for adults who would otherwise be healthy and have a lower propensity to develop dementia.

In time I think more research will be published and the general public will have a greater understanding of how many popular drugs truly affect an individual over their adulthood and through various stages of aging.
>>
Chan - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 01:48:50 EST Jlot+jMU No.147070 Reply
>>147069
I would like to think a study has been done or has the possibility of being done in the area you talk about. Diazepam would be a prime candidate since it has been around for several decades so there should be ample information to wade through & dissect. However I think just like the study you were eluding too the information strongly relies on being able to access the subjects past Rx history to build up an understanding of benzodiazepine usage. Thank you for commenting, I would imagine you have a significant amount of knowledge compared to me in this area but I'll try my best to be as factual as one can be.
>>
Charlotte Fuddleville - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:16:15 EST gACrxJp9 No.147074 Reply
>>147059
Oh no btw the thing in my name was from a thread on another board about cardiac arrhythmias which is something i deal with in my flashy light job not aimed at you

Thanks btw
>>
Wesley Duckbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:04:06 EST 1LOXYZsr No.147077 Reply
I've been using etizolam daily for 1 year, started off taking 0.5-1mg every day then increasing my doses up to 4mg for a few months during spring. For the last 4 months, I have tapered down, being able decrease my dose to about 0.5mg daily, and is able to get some breaks where I can go 2-3 days without any etiz, but also still with occations where I take 2-3mg on bad days.

Last week I only took an average of 0.3mg daily, and was 36 hours sober, until today where I took 2mg cause I also took Adderall and the comedown anxieties from it was killing me.

When would it be safe for me to jump off with no possibility of seizures? I can deal with anxiety alone now for the most part but I am worried that I might seize a few weeks later. I know etizolam only has a half life of about 8 hours and the fact that I am able to go 2-3 days and still be fine, should I still be worried about random seizures in the future? I have read the post above about someone taking alprazolam and having a seizure a few weeks later scares me. How can I make sure this doesn't happen to me or am I just prone to Russian roulette forever?

I want to stop etizolam for awhile so my brain gets used to dealing with anxiety without it then use it only few times a month for crashing on Adderall or shitty days...
>>
Chan - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 18:31:05 EST Jlot+jMU No.147085 Reply
>>147077
>Disclaimer: totally unofficial/non-professional medical advice from a nobody
>It is of the utmost importance to seek professional advice with these chemicals


>When would it be safe for me to jump off with no possibility of seizures?
Tapering down to 0.5 then too 0.25 then 0.00 and keep that constant. I understand the reasons for taking for the Adderall crash but try to avoid that scenario if possible. As it will just set back your taper schedule. However as you noticed with the "Alprazolam post" that seizure's were a possibility. I believed in that instance however outside factors played a much larger role than the benzodiazepine itself however with these class of chemicals you always have to factor in that they play a role.

>I know Etizolam only has a half life of about 8 hours and the fact that I am able to go 2-3 days and still be fine, should I still be worried about random seizures in the future?
Well that is an encouraging pattern however assuming that Etizolam is not a prescribed medicine it always advisable to seek a Diazepam taper from a professional no matter how low your dose may be.
This is advisable as a response to your first question as well.

>I want to stop etizolam for awhile so my brain gets used to dealing with anxiety without it then use it only few times a month for crashing on Adderall or shitty days...
That is a good mindset to have when tapering and stopping daily use of benzodiazepines so you are already half way there. I would advise against using Etizolam or any benzodiazepine for the Adderall crash. Instead taking a dose that does not cause a crash is advisable. However if use a minimal amount for your Adderall crash and use a large dose of placebo effects (e.g. I know this 0.25mg is going to instantly stop the crash) then it could be seen as acceptable use but I would still discourage or disagree with this behavior. If the Adderall is prescribed, I would seek a similar medication that does not cause a crash that requires a secondary drug.
For the issue of 'shitty days' I can only say use natural ways of calming yourself something such as Chamomile Tea, St. John's Wort, Mediation, Yoga or the like as well working through why you having a shitty day. Yes you could use a benzodiazepine for a 'shitty day' however that is a slippery slope into using daily. I do understand why you would want to use them in such case but again not advisable.

Best of luck with your taper. The placebo factor is quite interesting, I would read the full anecdote by Dr. Shulgin wrote on his experience with placebo effects.


For other/all posters:
  • Please say at least a single 1 week schedule if possible
  • Then average use per-week for a month if possible (average dose for week 1, then week 2 etc.)
Random averages are hard to give information on.
(You could take 10mg Alprazolam and then nothing for 2 weeks and have very low average that would not be representative of the issue you may be facing.)
>>
William Clingerwater - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 07:36:35 EST 2UiC158K No.147090 Reply
I am in Ativan withdrawal and have some of it saved for emergencies. I'd like my brain to function for a specific task I have to do, but I don't know if taking some from my stash will a) work (help me function better cognitively, emotionally, physically), and b) drag out w/d once I return to it.

Also, my urine is dark brown and it feels like I'm being stabbed in the abdomen. this started when I started withdrawing. related?

Is this experience likely to have any effect, positive or negative, when I get back on daily benzos later?
>>
Walter Doblinglotch - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:47:30 EST jf4+XjCN No.147094 Reply
>>147090
It's probably related. When I was detoxing from benzos I became completely convinced that my organs were failing because of the pain and felt that same stabbing sensation you're talking about. The dark brown urine is still not a good sign and you probably wanna get that checked out if it persists.
>>
Martin Lightway - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 12:03:46 EST gACrxJp9 No.147097 Reply
>>147090
If your urine is dark you may be dehydrated but does this stabbing pain come in waves or is it constant or what? Is it any particular part of your abdomen? W hat about your sides into your back under your rib cage?

HAve you ever had a urine infection before? You're probably the wrong age and gender demographic but it's still posssible

Might be withdrawls tho, try to stay hydrated my man
>>
Graham Blattingbanks - Fri, 13 Sep 2019 08:40:46 EST 2UiC158K No.147111 Reply
>>147097
I use a wheelchair and have a V so a UTI is not a bad supposition actually. But I just got tested a few days ago. It feels like stabbing in the bladder and uterus, about half the time, reaching a peak at certain points. Also yeah under the ribcage. Not back, or not any differently from the normal way my back hurts (all my joints are fucked including discs).

and yeah trying to keep drinking water. thank you
>>
same poster - Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:58:51 EST gACrxJp9 No.147118 Reply
>>147111
Have you ever had any surgery before?

Have you ever had anything feeling like thidbin the psst?

Any paiin in the lower right side of your tummy just where your R hip arches (Right illisc fossa, google images) ?

Is it painful when you wee or does it feel like more of a strain?
Are you passing water kess or more or thr same amount as normal?
Feeling warm, sweaty or anything like that at all?
>>
Hugh Picklebury - Fri, 13 Sep 2019 23:03:49 EST gACrxJp9 No.147119 Reply
>>147118
*feeling like this

General message to everyone here, also remember this is a public space and try to ask yourself does this identify me? Am i comfortable posting something medical? Try to keep names if places out of this just keep safe gius but its so nice everyones helping one another here
>>
Fucking Sittingshit - Sat, 14 Sep 2019 02:03:30 EST 7eVUah6R No.147122 Reply
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>>147045
12 years on a solid diet of 1 to 2mg a day of pharma Alprazolam, heavy drinking.

How fucked am I if I need to try and like, become a functional person.
>>
Chan - Sat, 14 Sep 2019 04:28:30 EST Jlot+jMU No.147123 Reply
>>147122
>Disclaimer: totally unofficial/non-professional medical advice from a nobody
>It is of the utmost importance to seek professional advice with these chemicals

Not much. Explain the duration, amount and consistency of both the Alprazolam and alcohol to a trained professional and get on to a taper program. I assume the last sentence was implying you wanted off both of these substances.
The difficult part will be in essence re-integrating your mind into the world with out these substances. This is helped with the taper but finding other activities even mundane one's will help you. Just have or gain the willpower to challenge events sober and not resort to either substance. If it is underlying issue seek some form of counseling for it. Weather that is talking to psychiatrist or a friend. As soon as you realize your functional then you have already become functional.
I hope I have helped.
>>
Basil Chashkene - Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:35:19 EST egwCASe5 No.147141 Reply
>>147062
I understand I worded it confusingly.
3mg is in terms of high-potency benzos (Diaz/Oxaz/etc all converted to Alp/Clonazepam potency), used over a week on average, typically like a Friday 2mg then Saturday 1mg or similar - I have been using these doses for around a two years.
Sometimes I do less (0x or 1x a week) and very rarely I do more (max 10-15mg a week)

I don't feel any WDs up to 30-36 hours, and then I feel them until Day 5 at the same intensity usually peaking at Day 3/4, Day 5-10 reduced intensity and after that you could say I feel decent

Etiz and Phenibut aren't scheduled/used here but I at least wouldn't have to worry about copping as I don't have a script or reliable plug, I basically rely on friends and acquaintances who are also habitual users.
>>
Phoebe Crockledale - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 18:35:30 EST B6MHe838 No.147157 Reply
Hijacking for question.

Which board is best for barbs?

Don't say barbs beets Battlestar Galactica. Ty
>>
Dr. Katz !KqgSR25gAQ - Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:37:26 EST qkzTPNFj No.147165 Reply
>>147157
/benz/ is the board to come to if you want to talk barbiturates.
You’ve come to the right place. Make a thread if you feel so inclined.
>>
Martin Brookdock - Thu, 19 Sep 2019 08:02:44 EST jW0v/dZ8 No.147186 Reply
>>147045
Is it safe to combine benzos with ashwagandha? I want to cut my benzo usage back and ashwagandha works wonders for my anxiety. Thanks in advance.
>>
Phoebe Wacklelet - Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:55:08 EST sgH80cUy No.147187 Reply
Took 1500mg gabapentin

Feeling.good!
>>
Chan - Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:08:09 EST DPA8sSzN No.147188 Reply
>>147186
>Disclaimer: totally unofficial/non-professional medical advice from a nobody
>It is of the utmost importance to seek professional advice with these chemicals

I don't believe there should be any problem. However a quote from the Wikipedia article "Mainly due to the poor quality of clinical research with the plant, there is no high-quality evidence that it provides any medicinal benefit and may cause adverse effects if taken together with prescription drugs.". Again I would say it is fine but would research as much as possible for harm reduction measures before taking it.
>>
Ernest Bubberdock - Fri, 20 Sep 2019 07:04:44 EST c0nRytkF No.147195 Reply
>>147188
>>147186

>
I don't believe there should be any problem. However a quote from the Wikipedia article "Mainly due to the poor quality of clinical research with the plant, there is no high-quality evidence that it provides any medicinal benefit and may cause adverse effects if taken together with prescription drugs.". Again I would say it is fine but would research as much as possible for harm reduction measures before taking it.

This is horseshit, ashwagandha is one of the most studied plants/supplements around

https://examine.com/supplements/ashwagandha/

>Ashwagandha appears to be involved in signalling through the GABAA receptor, as its beneficial influences on sleep are abolished with GABAA antagonists and potentiated by GABAA agonists[119] and the ability of ashwagandha to enhance GABAA signalling via diazepam has been noted elsewhere with 5µg of the methanolic extract[120] and 100-200mg/kg oral ashwagandha (mice).[121]
>>
Ernest Bubberdock - Fri, 20 Sep 2019 07:11:56 EST c0nRytkF No.147196 Reply
>>147186

Just slowly taper the benzos and use ashwagandha, its an adaptogen

>Ashwagandha is known as an adaptogen compound, which may be due to the withanolide glycosides (ie. Withanoside IV rather than Withaferin A).[152][153][154] Adaptogens tend to reduce the perception of stress, and while their mechanisms are not well known in the case of Ashwagandha it may be related to preventing a stress-induced increase in NADPH diaphosphorase[128] (ie. nNOS[155][156]) which may be related to preserving the decrease in its negative regulators (serotonin) while preventing its positively regulators (corticosterone, glutamate) from increasing during stress.[128]

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