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Endstage oldfag tranners

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- Mon, 18 May 2020 17:27:16 EST TYSujzJw No.407327
File: 1589837236734.jpg -(395564B / 386.29KB, 1200x654) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Endstage oldfag tranners
Who here is end stage? As in stealth, or fully transitioned, or living your life satisfied with what you've done?

I'm on year 10 of hrt. Living as a normal woman for ages.

Hows your life going? How are you doing? Do you have much contact with the trans community? Do you want contact with other late stage tranners?
>>
Fucking Wumblegold - Tue, 19 May 2020 09:24:38 EST eYssy9wX No.407330 Reply
1589894678538.png -(61149B / 59.72KB, 800x395) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
> end stage
sorry yall, i have stage 4 tran. it's terminal.
>>
Edwin Clonkinham - Wed, 20 May 2020 01:38:31 EST esceOkl4 No.407333 Reply
>>407332
DON'T CLICK, IT'S RANSOMWARE!
>>
Walter Sittinglidge - Thu, 21 May 2020 03:26:42 EST LKzeRb2X No.407334 Reply
>>407333
I'm sorry if this means you fell for it, they can be tricky sometimes
>>
Martin Bunwill - Wed, 27 May 2020 17:10:32 EST jL8Mcqc1 No.407346 Reply
I wasn't a tripfag but retrans and detrans multiple times over the years, to be fair I never identified as female. I feel like if I was born a little later I would have stayed on her due to less gatekeeping and adopted the femboy or nonbinary label.

I wish I hadn't been such an idiot when I was young.
>>
Sophie Fanningworth - Fri, 12 Jun 2020 19:01:09 EST rEM5UW+1 No.407369 Reply
Life's good. Moved to a new state, live with my BF now. Nobody knows I'm trans except a couple professors who I got real with.

I'm like... 5 years in ? 6? Had ffs, but that's it.

I avoid the trans community like the plague except for a discord Ive been in since way early on. Cool people in there.

Life's actually really sweet. Feel good about myself most of the time, doing pretty alright in Uni, and I'm loved, which is sweet. Passing helps a lot with general QOL. Would be way harder if I didn't.
>>
David Bishlun - Fri, 12 Jun 2020 19:15:59 EST MedHU5Rt No.407373 Reply
10 years in. Only really talk to a few trans people who have all been transed for 5+ years. Stealth except them. Post-SRS, post-FFS for years now. Cannot remember how many years it has been since I have been called Sir or He by anybody and I haven't lived in a "woke" area for a lot of the last several years.
>>
Cyril Wottingpodging - Fri, 12 Jun 2020 20:46:16 EST LKzeRb2X No.407375 Reply
>>407369
>I avoid the trans community like the plague

How come? I don't really see a reason to do this. I used to, but I started to think that my distaste for the culture came entirely from how I was brought up and the clique of bitter, hateful misanthropes I survived school with. At this point I don't feel like there's a reason not embrace most of it. The voice in the back of my head constantly saying it's cringey and bad and everyone hates it is the voice of a loser who I don't want to listen to anymore. I don't think people necessarily have to pick sides but having a group of people where there's guaranteed to be a base level of understanding and acceptance I think is really invaluable going through this process. Despite reservations, I came to the conclusion there was so little redeeming about my past that I saw no reason not to just completely rip it up and start again. I guess I figured I'd have a much easier time getting used to using the word queer unironically and saying "they" than getting the bigoted computer touchers I used to hang out with to accept me for who I am and treat me like an actual human being.

Obviously you seem pretty secure and happy with your life and I'm happy for you. I don't think you need to agree with me either way everyone was brought up differently, you might not have the baggage associated with it that I do or maybe you do and you have a different way of dealing with it. I was just throwing this out there not trying to lecture you or convince you specifically with it, it's just I feel like I was stuck in a prison not many people have a chance to get out of.
>>
Clara Girrywadge - Thu, 18 Jun 2020 19:43:14 EST Oc36Wdvo No.407381 Reply
>>407375
I think they’re just afraid of being critique. I know a few of my trans friends are always quick to point out what needs to improved in order to pass while my cis friends tend to accept my flaws and all along with my gender identity. This is true if they go to /lgbt/.
>>
Fucking Dripperpedging - Sat, 20 Jun 2020 01:09:10 EST b/o0q9L9 No.407383 Reply
>>407381
Y'all got some unsupportive friends. I think my trans friends would be honest with me about my appearance if I asked while trying not to hurt my feelings or make me overly self-conscious.
>>
John Hibberdale - Mon, 22 Jun 2020 05:01:01 EST eYssy9wX No.407385 Reply
i dunno, i'm pretty sure i'm "fully transitioned", i had an orchi like a decade ago and i kinda uhh stopped taking hormones mostly. Not looking for ffs or srs or anything. i pass well enough when i put even a modicum of effort in. I still look like a dyke when i do. When i "don't pass" people strangely mistakenly assume i'm ftm often?? i'm an angry tankie meme now and i'm ok with that. I have like a single token straight cis girl friend and only because we used to date, but all my friends are trans or like visibly queer.

I've stopped shaving my beard now in the pandemic. I've had laser but it still grows patchy chinfuzz now. Masks are a trip; i'm not used to being able to get a ma'am without the whole shaving routine.
>>
Samuel Bummershaw - Tue, 23 Jun 2020 02:54:49 EST LKzeRb2X No.407386 Reply
>>407381
The "trans community" outside of shitholes like /lgbt/ is very anti-criticism though, no one I know would DREAM of just out right telling me I don't pass or that I look like a guy, I mean I don't and I do without significant effort, but they wouldn't say it, which is its own problem sometimes, because if I'm on the fence about something with my appearance i get horrified when i realize literally no one would tell me unless it was catastrophically bad

I'm pretty sure that person was talking about communities of younger people who tend to also be very politically active like traa and tumblr and really most support groups on college campuses, there is a completely new generation of very vocal trans people not content with hiding and who feel no obligation to blend in and absolutely will make no concessions to reactionaries and I don't see how that's anything but cool as shit
>>
Ernest Worthingdock - Sat, 27 Jun 2020 17:57:43 EST T9G0jOun No.407388 Reply
>>407327
Been on HRT for ~7 years. As far as I know I've lived full stealth for 5+ years, I was lucky to begin with and had FFS and voice surgery (had a feminine voice before anyway but still felt forced). Had SRS almost 5 years ago, finally going to try to fix my manbutt with surgery since HRT did nothing at all for that (yes I made that other thread about implants). The way I look at it is just as a normal woman with insecurities, not specifically doing trans surgery.

One of my bffs is trans, we helped each other out a lot with the process (I feel like she helped me way more than I helped her), but otherwise I don't really do much with trans community anymore. I just don't care enough about anything to be involved. After SRS I felt like my transition was done and everything else was just vanity, so I stepped away from the actively-transitioning stuff like forums and research. There was just no point.

I still worry that people will suspect. People at work make trans jokes here and there around me and aren't the least bit cautious. But what if they think I look weird and start to piece the puzzle together?

My life is normal including major depression which prevents me from enjoying anything. Insurance makes it hard to keep up with hormones correctly so that could be part of it. I have a full-time salary job, people treat me normally, sometimes I am fine being a slob and going out without makeup. I am hoping after implant surgery I'll have more confidence wearing a swimsuit even if it's with shorts and not full-on bikini.

I haven't seriously dated since transitioning because I'm way out of school, a lesbian, in my 30s now, and demisexual (hard to become instantly interested in someone e.g. through a dating app). That part sucks ass. It's hard to meet the right people. I don't even disclose upfront that I'm trans, and no one has asked so far. Obviously I'd tell them later if we hit it off.
>>
George Fevingpig - Sun, 28 Jun 2020 02:41:45 EST LKzeRb2X No.407389 Reply
>>407388
Every therapist and doctor I've talked to has said VFS in most cases is prohibitively dangerous and that I shouldn't do it. How did it work out for you? I've only recently quit smoking after doing it from 17-23 and I assume that leaves me out of the running for a while at least, but I also have to talk a lot at my job (and in general) and sing as a hobby so I've not really seriously considered risking it.

My voice is not the best and I thought it was going to be my biggest hurdle but after a a few months now of really trying and a year of half-assing it, it's started to at least get very comfortable talking well with-in the female range and it breaks in and out of being realistic, but unless I'm actively looking at the waveform it's hard to hold it there, because I fall into the vocal fry I've used since coming gay years ago. Which I mean having the affect pretty well ingrained is a double edged sword because all of the voice training stuff I read that said it was all about mannerisms and here's what you do like up-talking and inflecting with pitch instead of volume I already did. My mom, not knowing that this didn't happen, made a comment that my voice was changing so I think that's a good sign.

I've also noticed for years now that I code switch around men I don't know (and my dad lol) and lose the affect almost entirely (from my perspective, people can still tell apparently) and drop a few registers which as a guy helped me not get the shit beat out of me but as a woman will obviously have the exact opposite effect. But it's very, very, very hard to get myself to talk in my real voice around them as strained and fake as it sounds 75% of the time I open my mouth.

Stubble on my face is probably the only tell that I have absolutely no way to deal with until I can afford laser removal which will be a long time from now if insurance doesn't cover it. I've only been on HRT for ~5 months now so obviously I don't really pass but it's going a lot faster than I thought it would, probably because the hormones have a bit more material to work with shifting fat around than for the average trans woman lls, but even that isn't terrible since I've actually lost quite a bit of weight since starting, especially recently now that I all of us sudden feel that insane pressure and I'm kind of over eating as a concept for a while.
>>
Hugh Weddlebury - Sun, 28 Jun 2020 23:24:06 EST GuUkjux6 No.407390 Reply
>>407389
VFS was a totally mixed bag. I went to Spiegel in the US for it because it was about the same cost as Yesson but without the travel.

He somehow overdid it so it affected 2/3 of my vocal cords instead of 1/3. So I'm in the process of working with a local voice specialist who did a revision (slight cut to the webbing created). She thinks I sound good and recommends speech therapy to get whatever else I want out of it (be it singing or doing character voices or something). Her tools seem to show me able to hit a good range of notes and pitches and whatever. It's been a long recovery with some good and some questionable results.

I'd say my practiced voice before was pretty good but maybe too high and squeaky. Now when I ask close friends, they say it sounds good. Coworkers knew I had some kind of throat surgery and couldn't talk for a while but not what exactly, they say it's sounding better and normal to them, they're used to my voice now. So it must not be that far off from how my practiced voice started. Still haven't done any waveform comparison with Spiegel's office.

One thing that seems to happen is if I sing or if I talk too much my voice can get worn out and scratchy/ raspy, which happened before with my practiced voice. I haven't been to too many loud environments where I can really test the limits. My singing isn't very good now. It was great as a man because I could go way too deep. I am hoping it'll just take practice to relearn my instrument, as my doctor puts it.

Overall it feels really good to not have to fake it 24/7. I don't know how people can do that for so many years. To be honest, I think that's where we get gay/ faggy sounding cuties. The effort just isn't worth it, and I wasn't willing to sound like a gay man or teen boy (I was never "gay" but with no male effort my natural voice was on the feminine side).

There's not much danger in the Yesson technique (which Spiegel does too). It partially joins the vocal cords (think going from | | to a Y shape, sewn at the bottom of the Y) instead of cutting and shortening them. The result isn't perfect, but if anything goes super wrong, you can try to have it cut apart again. He'll tell you it's completely reversible, but that's only partially true. It creates scar tissue, so trying to cut it apart means the scar wants to reform. It can work but isn't always successful especially the first time.

I'd definitely recommend looking into it for women with deeper voices. As someone with a higher voice, it still helped me. I can be lazy as hell and just talk. I don't have to feel like I'm choking myself to produce a fake voice anymore. If that's what you want, it could be an option for you.
>>
Graham Norrybure - Mon, 29 Jun 2020 15:41:30 EST LKzeRb2X No.407393 Reply
>>407390
Meh I'm tempted but I still don't think I actually give enough of a shit, at the moment at least. I think it's more of a personal hang up really at this point. I mean I think it's a lot easier in general to use the higher range of the voice I was born with, but I also happen to be comfortable doing that, it's just not quite the default for me yet. Even as a baritone I have a good 2/3rds to half of my range I can use and still be in the technically female range. I dunno if it's all the smoking or what but I actually physically can't even do a falsetto at all, I crack into just nothingness if I try to push much further past A4. Again though, a lot of it is down to mannerisms, and even still the (cis) female voice just has a discernibly different timbre regardless of range.

I can just deal with people knowing really, I kinda came to the conclusion recently that I'll do a lot better to come to terms with that fact than hide in my house waiting for a day that might never come. I think the closer we come to passing, the more outspoken people are in misgendering us. Even now there are (a few) places where you're actually more at risk doing that than being trans. The only threshold I really cared about crossing is the one where there's no way there can possibly be an honest mistake. It would be nice to be able to be stealth but I don't think if I was able to I would be most of the time, because it's an even more powerful statement to be able to pass perfectly and still be out. It would just be useful in some scenarios in a safety/survival sense, like it would be nice to be able to stop at a gas station and go to the bathroom on a road trip without having to find a bigger city or to go out alone and have any degree of confidence.

It's not your or anyone else's responsibility to do that though and you're right to do whatever you feel comfortable with. I'm not one of those people who says it's bad to even try to pass at all. Most people don't want to and should have to have their very existence be a political statement. I had already started to accept being different in this sort of way as a teenager, so I'd imagine it's a lot different for people who haven't. Or can't. Being real it must be a lot harder for trans women who aren't straight as an arrow to be open about it given the default assumption by most cishet people that's it just an advanced form of gayness. What I'm running from is the opposite stereotype that somehow concurrently exists that we're apex predators using this as a disguise to get close enough to women so we can ambush them when they least expect it. I think transbians objectively have it worse. Almost like these things... intersect or something.
>>
Reuben Sinkinwater - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 04:05:45 EST 16q9TR54 No.407394 Reply
I used to post here a lot ages ago, but then I went stealth and tried to take distance to anything trans. Recently came back to the transcommunity after a acid trip and realizing that all my internalized transphobia was making me mad depressed :(

Ive been FT and on HRT for 8 yrs, post BA and Orchi, still saving for SRS and FFS

>Hows your life going?
Id say rather great, I have just finished Uni and I might start working as a teacher depending on how my interview went
>How are you doing?
Physically, never better. Ive spent the corona quarantine to working out and loosing weight (-20kg). Mentally, a bit stressed out, me and my ltr parter (7yrs) have decided to end things due to both of use wanting different things and kinda growing apart
>Do you have much contact with the trans community?
Barely any, I started going to local transmeeting before the corona, but yeaaaah that aint happening for a while
>Do you want contact with other late stage tranners?
Yeah I honestly kinda do
>>
Eliza Grimford - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 08:24:59 EST WQCIUv3D No.407395 Reply
>>407393
The "it's just big gay" stereotype is by far the more gracious of the two main ones with the other being that we're straight male buffalo bill type perverts, I would rather people think i was just a confused gay man.
>>
Charles Hunnerwet - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 20:00:59 EST t1hLQCHo No.407396 Reply
Pretty good. Been stealth for 5y+, hrt 8y+. Pass effortlessly. I sometimes do modeling. I kept my secret from my bf for 6 months before I told him. We've been together for 3y now.

The only issue I'm dealing with is that I'm too tight for my bf. I'm hoping a small surgery will fix this.

I used to visit 420 along with 7 and 99 in my late teenage years for info about online pharmacies. I'm glad this board is still around, but I won't be staying.
>>
Jenny Chinkinhore - Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:25:43 EST +3IBuC1V No.407398 Reply
Doing pretty good. had my 10 year hrt in June. no surgeries, pass, semi-stealth (its not that i dont talk about it, it just never comes up?). Pretty satisfied, i mean not being cis and unable to have babies kind of fucks with me a lot. especially when people my age seem to be dropping kids like its nothing and all the men my age want to have kids its yeah. as i said it still fucks with me a lot. Just gotta deal.


Im not active in the trans community, That was something i kind of learnt my lesson from here, the more involved i got in a trans community the less time i spent doing productive things to actually life a fulfilling life. I found it more fulfilling to hang around people whom i share actual interests with instead of our mutual ailments.
>>
Jade - Mon, 06 Jul 2020 01:21:00 EST wkuRiknw No.407400 Reply
>>407327

I have been on HRT for 10+ years (30 y/o now) and as I am aging, I am definitely changing as a person. I used to be more on the "I'm a woman stuck in a man's body" side of the tg ideology spectrum, but I'm now more comfortable being a man that appears as a woman. (trap/trans identifying rather than female) I feel great in that space and love the peace that has invited into my life.

I am married to a wonderful man, have trained my voice to sing/speak in the female range (even when half asleep), had laser hair removal on my face, and live stealth (visually) in many spaces. I would love to have more friends that have transitioned, but ideologically many of them differ far to greatly.

Reason I went on about my beliefs is that I was horribly tortured in the headspace of "I am something I am physically not". When I accepted reality (in my experience) and felt as part of the male existence as a tg person, it brought great peace to me. I noticed MANY Trans people have different ideas of their place in this world, and I completely support all of your own realities; this is me just sharing mine. :)

Also, I used to post here all the time, so there may be some lurkers here that remember me. :)
>>
Oliver Duckbury - Mon, 06 Jul 2020 17:21:28 EST LKzeRb2X No.407401 Reply
1594070488083.png -(1306747B / 1.25MB, 1080x2488) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>407400
i mean gender as opposed to sex is just the desire to do exactly what you're doing, that's the only barrier to entry, it doesn't make sense to say that it's a denial of reality, it's a term defined in observation of a natural phenomenon, some cultures have spaces for 3 distinct genders, others for 5

gender isn't a thing you are, it's a thing you do

but i mean you do you, whatever you're happy with is fine, but you're kind of stuck between two world views and to me it would be very dissonant, what pronouns do you use if you don't mind me asking?

I'm seriously not trying to tear down the worldview that makes you comfortable with your existence, I'm just trying to understand how one comes to that conclusion.

>but ideologically many of them differ far to greatly

I mean there's probably a reason for that, I don't really understand how people get in this position in the first place, to me there's no point in not taking the plunge. I used to be pretty reactionary but over time I saw "hey, here's a group of people who are saying I am and accepting me as what I've wanted to be since I was kid and they're explaining why I feel that way and telling me that it's okay and valid" and then I sort of realized most people my age feel that way and I would be in the minority against my own interests. It didn't make sense. Maybe it's an age thing.

I mean regardless of what anyone thinks it's the way society is going anyway, kids are being brought up to day in a way that this isn't even seen as a contentious issue, it's totally normal to them that there's a difference between sex and gender and most things we associate with sex are actually associated with gender and thought they're strongly correlated it's possible to have a gender identity that differs from biological sex.

In all honesty though I'm kind of a special case since I was partially androgen insensitive to begin with and just assigned male because visually I was plenty close enough. I didn't even find out formally until I pursued transitioning in my late teens, although I remember doctors telling me weird things as a kid like that "there are boy and girl potions and sometimes boys don't get enough of the boy one or too much of the girl one" and bizarre feelings like being terrified I was going to wake up one day as a girl (which to a 5 year old trying to be a boy and feeling like I was failing was pretty upsetting). My mom thought I was going to be (born as) a girl until I was after multiple tests saying that there was no evidence I would be male, which wasn't the case with my brother. Despite being identifiable as male (prior to starting to transition, I think that's starting to change but probably only to me and people who accept me as female, because that changes your perception of someone, makes you more likely to pick out female traits and ignore male ones) I've always had some female traits like no Adam's apple, fairly narrow shoulders, very pronounced gynecomastia and hypogonadism, low T, etc.

The issue in my mind is that it's impossible to determine what feelings were coming from being technically intersex and if I'm technically trans at all, I think it's possible to be both but I don't think anyone really knows. On a political level people solely see me as someone born "male" (which even sex is a bimodal not a binary, sex arises from a very complex process that's merely kicked off by chromosomes, not determined by them) who goes on to identify as female and my rights are restricted as such.

If anything, I have a much better "case" than trans women born solidly in the male range of biological sex, but from my experience I see the whole idea that one has to justify that they're a man, woman, or non-binary as patently ridiculous and deeply problematic. Whether or not I have the luxury of having the piece of the puzzle I do, it doesn't make me any more valid than a trans lesbian who transitions at 45, despite the fact that to a lot of people it absolutely does. We don't yet know the biological origins of gender identity, but if it's anything like homosexuality it could be very strongly correlated to biology even to the point of being considered and interesex condition, but again it doesn't have to be and on an individual level no one is going to have complex analysis to determine their brain structure, hormone levels, etc. to determine if they're "really" trans, there is not and should not be any barrier to entry.

I mean sure I could've just let your post stand so on some level this is obviously just cope on my end but it's what I firmly believe and as far as I can tell it's what most people who are informed on the issue believe and the idea that public consciousness is very quickly coming to
>>
Jade - Tue, 07 Jul 2020 03:26:32 EST wkuRiknw No.407404 Reply
>>407401

With all due respect, I reject the statement that "most people who are informed on the issue believe" what you believe. I do not have that experience nor have my readings echoed that.

My worldview did not manifest as a result of ignorance on the subject or lack of exposure to opposing ideologies. I understand your specific case presents a plethora of questions that need careful consideration and discussion, but unfortunately that is a very separate issue from trans people without these specific medical conditions that bring the idea of their sex into question.

To answer your question, I am comfortable with whatever pronoun I am given upon a conversation and feel no need to correct. I believe that the idea of sex proclamations in normal conversation is ridiculous and outdated. 99% of the time, I am "she/her/hers" in my interactions. As long as I am spoken to with respect, I have no problem with he/she/they.

I understand that gender expression is fluid and not walled in by sex; however, a personality trait is not a gender. A large number of trans individuals I've met, particularly the politically active ones, tend to be adamant about "my penis is a female penis" and "my biology IS female biology" and that is just simply rubbish, in my opinion. Those type of extremists turned me off from the mainstream trans movement.
>>
Doris Hazzleputch - Tue, 07 Jul 2020 04:49:38 EST 7hJCOOod No.407405 Reply
>>407404
Fitting for someone who hides behind a thin veil of self-acceptance to be turned off by anybody else who wants the very thing. Respectfully, shove it up your ass.
>>
Graham Trotspear - Tue, 07 Jul 2020 12:19:22 EST o3GbARwD No.407407 Reply
>>407388 what was voice surgery like? How much did it cost, etc?
>>
Lydia Bobbleshit - Tue, 07 Jul 2020 18:09:09 EST LKzeRb2X No.407409 Reply
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>>407404
Man this is what a staggering amount of deeply ingrained internalized transphobia looks like. I'm really glad my generation doesn't have to deal with as much of this shit, in spite of people like you. If think you think there's even a sizable minority with-in our community who identify as "trans identified men" you are fucking delusional.

You people all say the same things over and over again, it's really frustrating, there aren't ever going to be any new arguments of any substance because it's been beat to death and you're at an ideological dead end. The phrase "sex proclamations" is a new one for me and it's fucking amazing lls

Presented for your delectation miss. You're valid whether you want to be or not :)

This is a wide net. Just ignore the bits you pick and choose to believe from the same people telling you the things you don't.
>>
George Blunderwill - Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:04:45 EST g/Bx05E8 No.407420 Reply
>>407409
>You people all say the same things over and over again
>in spite of people like you
You know...I'm glad that Gen Z is better-informed and on average nicer than all previous, and I don't have the same worldview as the lady you're responding to.

but it was pretty hard realizing you were trans and coming out and transitioning even 10-20 years ago. It's not great now, but before the media coverage spike and literally anyone talking about it, it was pretty hard. I think we really did the best we could. I also do not think transphobia levels are a result of older trans people who espouse dumb ideas. Cis people created this situation, not us, and they've been thinking dumb things and disrespecting us with no extra help for a long time. I try to keep this in mind when I talk to a trans person who is older than me (like came out in the 70s and 80s shit) and they say something that seems wack but is obviously not meant to be mean.

*rattles walker* sounding very much like Kids These Days but whatever
hopefully you understand where I'm coming from. It's sad to think the Kids These Days have contempt for you and think you're ignorant when you had to fight tooth and nail just to exist nawmean
>>
George Blunderwill - Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:32:19 EST g/Bx05E8 No.407421 Reply
>>407404
>I believe that the idea of sex proclamations in normal conversation is ridiculous and outdated
Asking for pronouns in conversation is just an act of common courtesy to people. Some people have struggled very hard just to be seen as they are, and every time someone screws up their pronoun it reminds them of times they have been hurt, and intentionally using the wrong one is an act of disrespect in and of itself. It's like intentionally mispronouncing someone's name just to be a shit.

I mostly hear "I'd be fine with any pronoun!" from cis people attempting to argue with trans people's needs, but among people who have had their identity in question, I would say it's much more common for people to have s strong preference. If it doesn't trouble you to use anything, that's fine, but we set up good social practices to accommodate for everyone. And it really doesn't take very long. Seconds.

>the politically active ones, tend to be adamant about "my penis is a female penis" ..Those type of extremists turned me off from the mainstream trans movement.
I mean, it actually makes less sense for someone who identifies as a woman and functions as a woman in everyday life (either by passing or by being identified as transfemme) to have a male penis. It's a penis which is located on a woman. It's not much more complicated than that. I had sex dysphoria, so my body parts felt wrong, but I have to admit that they were at least mine. It wasn't the breasts of some female version or me, or some random woman. They were breasts attached to a man.

Anyway, I don't know if there is even is a mainstream trans movement so much as a bunch of trans people in existence and some views which reach the cis majority's consciousness as representative (which may or may not be). when I poll other trans people about things I find a much greater plurality of views than someone else might expect.
>>
Isabella Hurrystedge - Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:03:17 EST 31r/BKcO No.407422 Reply
>>407409
>Just ignore the bits you pick and choose to believe from the same people telling you the things you don't.

Ive always loved that some people who pride themselves on their logic and reason and how they "fucking love science" falter immediately at literally the first thing that science tells them that they didn't already believe, everything that's at the bleeding edge of science now they'll reject just like the majority of people did in the past towards all the radical ideas they make fun of people for not believing
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Isabella Hurrystedge - Mon, 13 Jul 2020 15:10:03 EST 31r/BKcO No.407423 Reply
>>407420
How does the fact she had it harder than younger trans people do now excuse her egregious transphobia? It sucks, it really sucks for her to live like that, and it's way more bewildering and upsetting than the same shit coming from a TERF, but not really any less damaging or inexcusable
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Angus Dibblehood - Tue, 14 Jul 2020 05:19:50 EST g/Bx05E8 No.407424 Reply
>>407423
Because a TERF is cis and has more social power. Trans people didn't create the system they're in; they're reacting to it. And in the case of older trans people, they formed most of their outlook under great duress.
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Nathaniel Sendlefot - Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:35:18 EST LKzeRb2X No.407470 Reply
>>407424
that still doesn't excuse it and anything more than a detached explanation of why minorities hate themselves is going too far to do so, self-hatred is still hatred, I used to have so much i didn't even realize i had, it doesn't matter if you think "oh I[/b\] don't feel this way, i just know that most other people do, and that's what's making me feel bad", when in reality it doesn't matter who you ascribe it to those thoughts are still coming from your brain. It didn't matter if I imagined it was someone else saying it about me when i saw a stereotypically masculine trans woman and thought "ugly, fake, creepy man in a dress", i still thought it and it was still viciously mean, and ironically only now that those insecurities are going away for me now that i'm starting to see real results from HRT after just half a year do i feel like i'm a woman and all trans women no matter what they look like are too, i'm still probably a massive piece of shit and will be for the rest of my life because my ultra-conservative upbringing, i don't think there will ever be a time where i can say "ok I'm not a transphobe now", too much damage has been done, and the only thing i can do is to stay vigilant about it, i don't think anyone can be faulted if they do that, but that bitch clearly doesn't
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Sidney Mellybune - Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:26:00 EST oMJ8wD1p No.407472 Reply
I've been on hormones for 12 years, had some adventures, have a boyfriend.
But you have to work for it!
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Beatrice Fammerfit - Wed, 29 Jul 2020 06:52:20 EST g/Bx05E8 No.407474 Reply
>>407470
Hey there. I know you disagree with me or whatever (or maybe we just misunderstand each other) and that is ok, but I just want to tell you that, speaking about you, at least, you don't sound like a massive piece of shit. Trying to inflict less of your internalized junk on other trans people, and learning from your mistakes, sounds like what a good person does.
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Ernest Grandson - Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:13:56 EST LKzeRb2X No.407475 Reply
1596046436277.jpg -(16396B / 16.01KB, 720x405) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>407474
I appreciate that, and I don't really disagree with you that strongly, and I don't even think the other poster is a "bad" person, I just take very strong issue with what she said, I think that what manifested as anger was really just that I was sad she has to live like that, which I know sounds condescending but I used to feel the same way and it's like night and day when you actually consider yourself to be the gender you identify as, and there is literally no reason not to.

I want to ask her "what's more important: being happy or being 'right'?" There clearly no one objective thing that makes anyone anything, and who gives a shit? why feel compelled to care? the big problem is people overthink things, either deliberately because they want a way to rationalize their prejudice or simply because we all kind of feel to some extent or another that there must be these definitive answers for everything when there are actually very few

i think really the only way to be truly happy now that we've past childhood's end in terms of there being any hope of discovering certain truth and are thoroughly living in postmodernity is to answer all these stupid questions like "what does it all mean?", "why are we here" or even "what makes someone a man or a woman" with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To badly paraphrase Rorty, any questions that have been around for thousands of years for which we still don't have an answer, the correct response is "I don't care".

Pic related as wise words to guide one's life
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Phyllis Smallbury - Thu, 30 Jul 2020 01:42:18 EST g/Bx05E8 No.407477 Reply
>>407475
Makes sense to me. I haven't worried too much about being a Real [Whatever] wrt trans stuff. I just moved, sluglike, towards what I wanted or what felt good and away from what felt bad. I like my body being the way it is. I don't need to care about why.
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Esther Sinkinbere - Tue, 11 Aug 2020 00:37:52 EST Zr5/tvyx No.407491 Reply
I think I'm 8 years hrt or soon to hit it.

Had SRS and moved to a regional city where I seem to be stealth.

It's pretty good. I don't have any contact with the local LGBT community though I'd kinda like to as well?
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Nell Tootshit - Tue, 11 Aug 2020 02:02:35 EST LKzeRb2X No.407492 Reply
>>407346
>retrans and detrans multiple times over the years, to be fair I never identified as female

What is this like? I was always afraid until very recently (as in less than a month ago, like half a year into HRT) that this would happen to me, but I kind of just said fuck it I might as well do and I might as well keep doing it, because it can't possibly be worse than the way I'm living now

At every stage there was this nagging feeling somehow that I was wrong, but I think I was just overthinking it. Some might call it a cop-out but personally I kind of reasoned my way into a situation where I can't really conceivably be wrong in that I firmly believe that the desire be a certain gender is the thing itself when people talk about "being" trans or cis. It doesn't work the other way around, one still could be wrong conceivably, one could think they "were" trans when they really "weren't" because of other mental health/identity issues, but the enduring desire to be seen as such is literally the only thing that gender really is at the end of the day. I used to kind of think during middle and high school that my thing was only that I "wanted to be" a girl, and that if I was trans there would just be something inside of me that would make me okay with being that way, and initially the idea of transitioning horrified me, so it seemed logical for me to think that I must not be, and yet that desire persisted. It persisted through literally everything I tried to throw at it from weight lifting and steroids (this path lasted a couple days, I immediately hated the way testosterone made me feel) to trying to just live as a very flamboyant gay man, none of it worked to get rid of that ineffable feeling of wrongness surrounding everything I did, although coming out as gay was a lot closer, probably because I was pretty homophobic and implicitly thought of gay men as girly, which while not it, was a lot closer to the mark.

Even though from the moment I decided to do it I had the feeling that EVENTUALLY it would pay off, it was a good year and a half of painfully slow work to get myself to feel the way that I wanted to feel, and like I said only relatively recently have I started to truly see myself as a woman in my mind's eye and in every facet of my being.

It's funny, in my head back in high school I had imagined a near future were people were split up more by the role they wanted to play in the relationship and in life in general, rather than something like sex, and that we'd be sort of split up into girly people who tended to be biologically female and masculine people who tended to be biologically male. It didn't dawn on me until years later that this is just exactly what gender is, like to a T. I legitimately made up a concept that just was gender without realizing it, to imagine a world in which I could be happy but not trans, which at the time I didn't think that I was.

You do kind of have to do a lot of work though to completely believe yourself if you start from a place like I did where I just didn't believe it was physically possible to be a woman or a reasonable thing to try to do. I'm glad I was born just in time so the zeitgeist kind of shocked me out of it and I realized how fucking dumb I was. I really do feel privileged to be part of the first generation of people to ever do this, at least in the way we are, using cutting edge science and technology to mold ourselves into what we want to be, physically changing every fiber of our being in terms of body and mind to be more congruent with our souls. I think this process makes life exponentially more complex and interesting. That's the best way I can think to explain it, just taking everything I've ever consciously experienced and every meaningful thing I've ever learned about the world and raising it to the power of this new thing, it's not just starting to view things through a "different lens", it's starting to live in what is legitimately a completely different universe, since the universe to the individual is what they consciously experience and I now experience things so completely differently and have an appearance and affect that would've been so totally foreign to me just 5 years ago that I can't reasonably say that I'm the same person in any meaningful sense.

I've actually had a lot of luck with that thought experiment for what it's worth. I took my first trip in years and first one one HRT and it was an absolutely amazing experience. Completely different than any of the hundreds of trips I went on in the past, unsurprisingly, and the central theme it took on was that I was kind of either in heaven or at a sort of character creation screen however you want to look at it, and I was completely unbound to who I had been up until that point. It felt like I was sort of in a cosmic waiting room waiting to take on a new corporal form. I started to truly envision myself as a completely different person who happened to be a woman and the entirety of my past up until that point was just sort of the background story. I don't have to reckon with my past. It doesn't exist. Who I was then (and am now) is a total figment of my imagination. During that trip, it was as if I had just met myself as a vaguely passing with makeup in low light at the right angles trans woman. I remember during part of it I just kind of stared at my reflection in the mirror and I could see as I subconsciously stopped picking out masculine traits and started picking out feminine ones and for the first time in my entire life I didn't see a man. From that point forward, there is absolutely something just different about the way I see myself. I think I'm finally to the point in my life where for all intents and purposes, that fantasy I had in high school of just waking up as a girl having been born as one came true, and I simply am one now, and that's as far as I have to think about it.

I have much more in common with the people who now make up my circle than I would've had with "myself" at that time, because I was living as half a person. What I filled in the other half with was total trash, I could never truly be whole as a man and it really showed. It's great to now run into people I used to know and say "haha, yep, THAT'S what was wrong with me the whole time, I'm happy now, you can think what you want" and for the most part people seem pretty happy for me. I genuinely do think most are, because to normal well-adjusted cishet people we're just another other, but so what if they're lying? the fact they were compelled to feign support to begin with is enough for me, because being trans is a narrative I can go with, it's a way I can make my life make some semblance of sense. At the end of the day, in terms of how one wants to conduct their own life, that is absolutely without a doubt the only thing that matters.

I think at this point in time for my generation, physically transitioning is truly the bleeding edge of experience. That's not a reason to do it in and of itself, but it is a reason not to completely hate the fact that you feel compelled to.

I am genuinely lucky to have been born when I was and I do wish that you had been born just a little later but I don't think it means you can't live in the same world I do. Maybe it does, but I really hope not.
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Barnaby Nenkindock - Wed, 23 Sep 2020 17:24:49 EST qSUTaVkZ No.407617 Reply
1600896289195.jpg -(204516B / 199.72KB, 1920x1080) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
On HRT since end of 2010. Don't even remember how long stealth. Had voice surgery years ago. Getting SRS next month and FFS at the end of the year. Basically without a job or any partner at the moment. Interested in 3D CG and audio design. Always worked outside of my interests tho. Was in few failed relationships ("we have same interests same tastes and my benis wants to fuck you but you're not real woman so bye").

Ive quit smoking recently and feel like crying all the time. I don't have any motivation to live tbh. I should be happy about finally getting SRS which will allow me to dress more like i want to but i don't feel happy about it at all. Just feels like there will be less everyday inconvenience for me.

I don't really see myself in the future. I constantly think about suicide. I don't talk to people at all. I have all the circumstances to start having serious career on my own but I spend everyday wasting my time on the internet watching bullshit videos or just sleeping.

Recently found out that my sister tries to make everyone in my family think that i am psychotic and generally induce antagonistic attitude against me - especially my grandmother who will leave quite big inheritance when she checks out. She has a lot of debts and is basically working illegally btw, i could literally call the debt collectors and tell them where she lives to fuck her shit up but i am quite apathetic about her. The only person that keeps me alive is my mother. She was fucked pretty hard by life and I am pretty sure she will kill herself aswell if i die by my own hand. I don't want that because things got quite a lot better for her recently and she really fucking needs to enjoy life more.

I realize that a lot of transwomen would kill to be in a situation like me and because of that i feel more like shit who doesn't deserve anything i have.

Fuck me
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George Nucklesudging - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:13:17 EST Vu0JlDyQ No.407619 Reply
>>407617
why are you going through with SRS at what I presume is at least your late 20s to 30s? Especially when you said you already feel suicidal?

"cis" white guy here. Sympathetic with you guys to a degree. I feel like getting that SRS surgery is really just that final nudge into no return so you can complete an theretofore "incomplete" suicide that could otherwise be saved. In fact I'm pretty certain that this is the case with a significan if not majority. I saw it play out with a very distant online acquaintance who ended up killing themselves earlier this year, someone my age.
User is currently banned from all boards
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Phoebe Pockfuck - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:03:41 EST qSUTaVkZ No.407620 Reply
>>407619

Already paid for it so I might aswell get it. Like i said it will feel less inconvenient for me to keep living. I can't even imagine how it feels being "cis" and not hating your own genitalia. Since i can't magically become biological female thats the closest thing i can get. I don't quite understand what my age has to do with it?
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Samuel Grandshit - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 08:03:24 EST Vu0JlDyQ No.407621 Reply
>>407620
>I don't quite understand what my age has to do with it?

Trigger warning for you and anyone reading this, skip this post if harsh criticism and judgemental commentary annoys or disturbs you.

I think being sexually active and sexually appealing is a component. If you are in your early 20s the world is your oyster. By the 30s you can still be hot enough to be an item and glean all the thrills associated with that. At the end of your 30s you're "mature", your own drives decline as do.

I don't buy that you need the genital thing, sorry. It's horse shit. And it's pointless to argue, I know the arguments and you do too, let's not rehash them. In fact the repetitiveness of them is an indictment of them: people repeat horse shit bullshit lines and narratives as some kind of religious cultic mantra, "it will make me feel whole" "less inconvienent." Less inconvenient, are you fucking serious? You are goung to be nursing a wound for 6 months and possibly the remainder of your life. It would be more convenient to just wear baggy bottoms that hide your guy parts.

age factors in because this thread is about elder trans people and I myself am getting on in years and I saw this phenomenon for the past 12, 15 years play out from when I was young and am now more mature. I always worried about the middle and late age of life for people who went down this route, and I take no pleasure in seeing the grim outcomes that subsumes them, but it was predictable
User is currently banned from all boards
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Angus Murdman - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:49:43 EST LKzeRb2X No.407622 Reply
>>407617
I would seek help from a therapist who specializes in trans issues. If you've been content more often than not or if you even still have the desire to be a woman at all, I think and the research would suggest that you are "really" trans, and 60% of people who detransition retransition. Honestly it sounds a bit rough but when I had that kind of thinking early on in HRT when I started to change very visibly, it was kind of easy to frame it as basically "welp for better or worse, i am this thing" and very quickly

Personally, this just sounds like depression fixating on what is obviously the most prominent thing about you that could cause distress by far, but that distress isn't necessarily (and usually isn't) cause to reconsider gender identity entirely. I had bipolar before starting HRT and it obviously doesn't just go away, so especially early on in manic episodes I thought I was the happiest it's possible for a human being to be and in depressive episodes I thought I made a terrible mistake, and while the idea of being a guy still disgusted me, my thought was this is too hard, I should've just stayed in the shadows as a joyless, sexless, junky loser until I died.

In euthymia though, which is the only state you can really made a sound judgement from (and the one I'm in 90% of the time these days, with the other 10% being mostly manic), I am all in all incredibly happy with the choice I made, it was incontrovertibly the right one to make and there's not a shred of doubt, even after just a year I get so happy every single time I catch my reflection and I don't even look that good.

I obviously don't know you and I can't tell you about yourself from a post, but it seems to me like if you've made it this far you might as well keep going. Hang in there, and hey

>"we have same interests same tastes and my benis wants to fuck you but you're not real woman so bye"

at least after SRS you're under no obligation to tell anybody if they do a good job (which, I mean, I trust you did your research there are some amazing results and some total hack jobs out there)


>>407619
>In fact I'm pretty certain that this is the case with a significan if not majority

100% demonstrably untrue. Please don't pretend to care if you actually don't. If you do, know that what you're doing here causes far, far, far more harm than good. If you aren't a trained, licensed professional, your role is not to play devil's advocate and challenge trans people on their identity. For you it can be just as simple as someone saying "I am this thing" and you saying "Ok you are that thing". Some kinds of help is the help we can do without.

Patients go through an extensive process (usually months and months with a good therapist) of what is called "differentiation" which, as the name would suggest, is a process wherein all possible other potential causes for perceived gender identity issues including mental illnesses, abuse, internalized homophobia and on and on. During which, people can slowly experiment and reflect and meditate on it and generally this is incredibly effective at weeding out people whose condition is only temporary or not the result of having transgender biology. It's not nearly as simple as walking into the doctor, announcing you're a women, and they give you hormones. Some people think it should be, I and a plurality of researchers in the field suggest it should not, because one can absolutely have the desire to transition for reasons other than being trans. It's a very delicate issue though that one has to be trained in so as not to do exactly what you're doing which is to sow even more doubt on top of one of the most complex and confusing processes a person can go through. It's also incredibly rare, as we'll see here:

https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

I won't post all 8 findings of this massive meta-analysis here they're at the top, would like to point out specifically though

>4. Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 [POINT. THREE] percent to 3.8 [the high end of statistical noise] percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.

>Below are 51 studies that found that gender transition improves the well-being of transgender people. Click here to jump to 4 studies that contain mixed or null findings on the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being. Click here to jump to 17 studies that consist of literature reviews or guidelines that help advance knowledge about the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being.

You'll notice that there is not a single study of the fif-ty-one there that demonstrates a wholly negative impact on well-being. Further reading:

https://discoveries.childrenshospital.org/puberty-blockers-suicidal-thoughts/

>First-of-its-kind study links puberty blockers to lower odds of suicidal thoughts


And while the situation is dire for sure because of you people there is nothing approaching an "epidemic of suicide" that transphobes claim

>One recent large study ( https://www.aappublications.org/news/2019/10/14/suicide101419 ) of transgender teens in the U.S. found that 19 percent had seriously considered suicide, 15 percent had made a plan, 8 percent had made an attempt, and 2.5 percent had been injured by an attempt.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ido70LgXsEhxcnyXE7RVS0wYJZc6aeVTpujCUPQgTrE/edit#heading=h.41udevbo7j8p

This is a very wide net compilation of scholarly articles in peer-reviewed journals, articles sumarizing them, the stances of major (legitimate) medical bodies, many of which pertain to trans issues, notably

This one:
http://transpulseproject.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Impacts-of-Strong-Parental-Support-for-Trans-Youth-vFINAL.pdf

Which suggests strong parental support decreases the likelihood of a suicide attempt within the past year from 57% to just 4 fucking %

This one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

Which describes factors contributing to transgender suicidality. Hint: all of them are external, not internal identity conflict, the statistics, which very wildly, are the predictable result of being part of the single most marginalized group of people on Earth overall, you can say "well then don't transition simple as" but the preponderance of evidence suggests that would increase suicidal ideation to a massive degree

Here's more evidence for that claim:
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

And again I feel as though I can not stress this enough: I think you probably mean well, but people doing what you're doing here and spoiling the pot, regardless of their intention, does more than almost anything else to contribute to the serious (but massively over-blown) problem of trans suicidality. Please stop doing it. Leave it to the experts and the people for whom it is an issue. Showing unwavering support is the only thing you should do. Please just trust medical professionals with this like you do with literally every single other medical diagnosis. If a person isn't really trans, they will almost certainly not get very far in the process, because a huge part of that process is specifically to rule out every other conceivable factor, to prevent exactly what you're saying supposedly happens, not to mention the fact that in a lot of cases, it's incredibly easy to tell once you start hormones if you're right, you either start to feel like you're finally using your entire mind and aren't living half a life or you feel wrong in every way possible, stop and go back to the drawing board. Almost every single false positive is weeded out before they become a visible minority.
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Emma Debbleped - Mon, 05 Oct 2020 18:47:17 EST VY5AwLG1 No.407660 Reply
as far as I know there are not true stealth cuties

there are only tranners who *think* they are stealth
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Jenny Clayshaw - Fri, 09 Oct 2020 02:59:02 EST EVVo2MTL No.407667 Reply
>>407327
I don't really belong here since this board is obviously meant for MTFs but I'm 7 years on HRT and I'm almost dome with my surgeries. I'm ready to just be done.
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Reuben Pittdale - Fri, 09 Oct 2020 21:29:32 EST Gr6eN3Pt No.407668 Reply
>>407667
>I don't really belong here since this board is obviously meant for MTFs

I would say that you clearly do, but I can understand where you would think that, assuming you're trans masc, trans femme people are massively over-represented in the trans community at large, I think that's changing though, I've been seeing a lot of content from trans men/trans masc people on TikTok, it's really neat and a side of things I never really had a chance to see before, only half-jokingly I always kind of thought "who would want to go THAT direction?", it seems really obvious now that the answer to that question is "men, probably"

Even though in a lot of ways our struggles are very different, I think we should all be able to be a part of this community and others, I still think we have way more in common than not, and i always like to hear different perspectives and learn about other peoples' experiences

i think a lot of why trans women have more of a presence in popular discourse, as dominated as it is by cishet men, might be because we're generally seen as a bigger threat to their own sense of masculinity, because a lot of them are transphobic as shit and think a trans man will always be a woman and a trans woman will always be a man, so in their minds they only run they risk of being "tricked" by the latter

i've also kind of wondered if some of it might be in part due to a tendency for trans men to want to stay under the radar and be fully stealth so they're taken more seriously by their cis counterparts. i never really understood the pressure that men cis and trans feel to act a certain way, to be "real" men, I just knew that I didn't want to be one full stop and that there were certain ways I could and couldn't act around guys i didn't know to avoid being beaten up
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Frederick Gerryludge - Fri, 09 Oct 2020 21:55:11 EST EVVo2MTL No.407669 Reply
>>407668
It's a lot of things I guess. I don't really relate to most other trans men anymore either anyway, especially ever since my first stage of SRS.

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