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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

Datura

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- Sun, 17 Mar 2019 18:44:14 EST tG3H3F9I No.157557
File: 1552862654974.jpg -(257514B / 251.48KB, 1200x1740) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Datura
When I inevitably take Datura, how can I consume it in a way that's least likely to kill me, considering the huge variations in potency? Eat seeds? Chop up seeds, flower etc very finely to evenly distribute the poison and then try to dose it, small amounts at a time over multiple days? I heard making tea is a no no
>>
Beast - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 12:31:56 EST /OXDeCuT No.157558 Reply
Tincture.

Better off left alone but if you chose to do so, make sure you are exact and have acknowledgement of the unchanging variable. Tis not meant for unbridled curiosity. If it is indeed meant for anything at all.
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 13:20:38 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157559 Reply
>>157558
>Tincture
How am I supposed to dose this correctly, or at all? I would think it is much more dangerous to do it that way since you have no idea how much of the drug you extract at all, when people make tea by throwing a few flowers into water they kill themselves easily by drinking too much of the stuff

With seeds at least you can have a general idea, even though they can vary by about 7:1 in potency

>make sure you are exact and have acknowledgement of the unchanging variable
can you elaborate please? what do you mean by unchanging variable?

>Tis not meant for unbridled curiosity. If it is indeed meant for anything at all.
I know what you mean. I am so strangely drawn to this plant, it is like I am in a trance. I definitely won't just consume it irresponsibly
>>
Polly Pendlefield - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:13:18 EST n74b80MA No.157560 Reply
>>157559
Since you said yourself seeds give you a decent general idea of how much you are taking, but they can vary so widely in the amount of oil with the desired alkaloids, wouldn't it make more sense that extracting those oils into a solution of water would give you a better idea of how much you are taking because the mixture is so much more homogeneous?

I mean, in part, this is exactly the point of making a tincture in the first place. It's easier to measure the amount of something you drink accurately than to pop multiple seeds knowing that one may possibly be 7x more potent than the other. Your argument makes no sense man, lmao
>>
Edwin Pickshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:18:32 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157561 Reply
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>>157559
Are you trolling?
If you have seeds, however finely ground, you have no idea how much it will vary.
If you extract it into a liquid each ml will be as potent as the next ml from the same batch (probably what the other one meant by "unchanging variable").
Why would it matter at all if you don't know how much you extracted? If you for some reason believe that "X amount of seeds" is any kind of measure, what would make it hard to have an amount of fluid that equals at most that amount of seeds in terms of potency. Divide amount of fluid by how many seeds you used, and you have a measure of "1 seeds equivalent".

If you're gonna mess with something this dangerous you're gonna have to learn how to think.
It cannot get more potent than what you put in, only less.
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 15:49:57 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157562 Reply
>>157560
>>157561
you are right, thanks. that does seem like the best way to do it, do you think the tincture/tea can be kept for weeks while different dosages are tried on each new day? would it spoil?
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:01:01 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157563 Reply
>>157560
>>157561
also, is there a species of datura that has the most favorable alkaloid content and effects? i plan on growing my own plant
>>
Edwin Pickshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:39:27 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157566 Reply
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>>157562
If you just made a simple tea it wouldn't last long I'd wager, but if you used a high proof spirit it could probably last as long as you'd need and more. Also you should probably wait more than a day between trial samplings, especially since datura is known to last quite a while. Don't want lingering effects (that you might not even notice) to interfere, also don't know how large a role tolerance would play either. As long as you don't rush and make mistakes you have your whole life to get it right.
>>157563
I actually had three plants myself some years back, but I didn't feel ready or/and adequately informed yet so I just dried the leaves and mixed with cannabis 50/50 for a very pleasant smoking mixture (they can't survive the winter here so I couldn't keep them around). Also sorry if I came across as condescending, it's just that with datura if you go about it without giving it both a second and third thought you could end up dead. Misunderstandings surrounding datura is one of the few things that push my buttons.

Historically it is Metel and Wrightii that's been used by witchy people, which also makes sense since they have different alkaloid ratios than Inoxia and Stramonium. But further than that, as you dig more it gets more complex. This is just dug up from around the net, so take this with not just a grain but a whole cup of salt, but my condensed notes of rumors;
D. Inoxia & Stramonium, higher hyoscyamine content relative to scopolamine.
D. Metel & Wrightii, higher scopolamine content relative to hyoscyamine.
Younger plants tend more towards higher levels of scopolamine.
Younger plant sco:atro about 3:1, which reverses after flowering,
with the amount of scop. decreasing as the plant ages.

Potency may vary up to 5:1 between different plants.
Given plants toxicity may depend on age, growth area, weather.
Potency also varies in the plant itself, even from leaf to leaf.
In severe poisonings, IV physostigmine can be administered as antidote.
End of rumor-level-info section.

The tips I've found on growing the actual plants are:
As much sun as possible
Moist soil at all times
Reduced water at winter, keep indoors if frost occurs.
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:48:58 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157568 Reply
>>157566
Thank you so much for all this info. You are like a shaman and I will take everything you said to heart(except the cup of salt part of course)
Have you ever actually consumed it orally or just smoked?
>>
Edwin Pickshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 17:00:16 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157569 Reply
1552942816713.png -(19784B / 19.32KB, 132x200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Also a small sidenote, you don't even necessarily need to go straight for Datura. You could begin with henbane (Hyoscyamus niger) instead, if I remember correctly it has a more friendly ratio of wanted to unwanted poisons (bonus, recipe for pilsenkraut: https://erowid.org/chemicals/alcohol/alcohol_brew.shtml ). There's also mandrake, but that's rather a step above than below Datura, much scarier stuff.
>>157568
Just a small nibble of a flower once as a (taste)test, not enough to be affected. Mostly because you're almost required to have somebody trusted watching over you so you don't just wander into the road or something if you lose more touch with reality than planned. Don't have somebody that I both trust enough and that would be okay with me doing this.
Thought I had met somebody fitting last year but we kind of drifted apart before we had time to connect. I'm not in any hurry, once everything aligns maybe somebody will turn up, and I'll have had more time to read up in respect of the plant.
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 17:04:15 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157570 Reply
>>157569
Very interesting, have you tried henbane? I also heard of DPH and DMH, but they don't really seem as valueable as Datura, they are just manmade imitations
>>
Edwin Pickshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 17:29:15 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157572 Reply
>>157570
Am actually planning to grow some this year, had already missed the time for planting last year when I found out about them as an alternative. So I've only really smoked datura, as well as tried DPH twice. DPH certainly wasn't for me, I couldn't get over the doom. Rendered me unable to care about anything at all. Had to walk on all fours to keep balance while feeling like I was on the wall, floor and ceiling all at once, and my water was permanently boiling in the cup, but none of it mattered and I couldn't care less. Could really only sit around and wait until I was sobered up enough to go sleep, watching something or doing anything was just effort for no gain.

Have heard around that datura is more warm, so I have some hope that it won't have the same quality of ripping the value out of life.
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 17:44:18 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157575 Reply
>>157572
I'll grow some Datura right off the bat, I can get seeds for Inoxia, Stramonium, and Metel, any suggestions?
>>
Edwin Pickshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:03:53 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157576 Reply
1552946633713.jpg -(250233B / 244.37KB, 719x960) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>157575
I'd go for the metel, if not both that and stramonium, might be beneficial to be able to tell them apart from real life experience and you could always use the stram. for smoking mixture since stram seeds are a bit cheaper (at least over here), my plants were stram. Other than that; treat your plant(s) with love, tread carefully and be safe!
I'll be around if anything comes up. And I think I've seen some books on making tinctures in my PDF library, I'll try to dig them up (maybe it's more a big messy pile rather than a library).
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:12:19 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157577 Reply
>>157576
yes, please do post the pdfs, I would love them.
I'll keep posting with my journey to grow the plant
>>
Edwin Pickshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:32:13 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157578 Reply
>>157577
I'm looking forward to seeing the progress!
Oh yeah I almost forgot, are you planning to keep them indoors or outdoors? I grew mine in pots indoors at first, but they got a bit frail. Don't know if the pots simply weren't large enough, or if it's that they need the wind to get motivated to beef up.
Did a quick look around now midpost, yeah they want a large pot if potted. Larger the better. Didn't cross my mind at the time. Dammit, could still have had my datura darlings if I'd thought of it then.
>>
Barnaby Sundlehall - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 19:23:38 EST mjQu8LVJ No.157579 Reply
>>157578
I was thinking of potting one, although I could also keep the pot outside on my balcony too, as well as plant some in the soil outside my house
Where do you live, which climate?
>>
Jarvis Clayshaw - Mon, 18 Mar 2019 22:08:50 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157580 Reply
>>157579
I'm in scandinavia. Would be interesting if you did both, see if the ground soil one would grow better / faster.
>>
Cyril Tillinghood - Wed, 20 Mar 2019 08:33:23 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157582 Reply
1553085203523.jpg -(160138B / 156.38KB, 817x1200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
On the tincture, the standard seems to be simply use 1 part dried herb to 5 parts 40% strength spirit, and let sit for two weeks minimum with a gentle daily shake. If using fresh material it's recommended to use a higher proof alcohol. Can't find anything on using seeds, figure it 'd be a good idea to crush them up a bit at least, maybe use a slightly larger part alcohol since seeds are denser than leaves. Make sure to strain it with some kind of fine mesh so you don't have any parts left in, since then it'd continue to extract and get stronger between samplings.
Also tried to look up which plant part would be best to use again, forgot to document last time, forgot how confusing it can be.
E.g;
http://www2.ib.uj.edu.pl/abc/pdf/48_1/iranbakhsh.pdf
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7129/b7b8d9067f84d26269ffe53b76ac79f26c60.pdf
Both regarding stramonium alk. distribution, different results.
>>
Lillian Girringnut - Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:58:55 EST h6AlYPAs No.157584 Reply
>>157582
Don't you think using such strong spirits would interfere with the consumption process? It's difficult enough to muster down
40% spirits straight, and you're saying that for fresh plants it would be better to go even higher. Is this issue supposed to
be bypassed somehow? Also not to mention the effects that alcohol intoxication would have on the Datura trip, since even half
a glass of such strong spirits would get you drunk even if only barely
>>
Cyril Tillinghood - Wed, 20 Mar 2019 14:45:55 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157585 Reply
>>157584
The amount of spirit for "one dose" shouldn't be enough to get you drunk, and just because it's in that strong state for storing purposes doesn't mean you have to consume it that way. Can dilute, and/or boil off some of the alcohol prior to consumption (put in a wide bowl, and put over a pot with boiling water).
There's also the option of making it with glycerine (7 parts glycerine to 3 parts water, use result in same ratio as spirit)(also wouldn't be a tincture technically), except I don't know if it would work as well or at all for datura specifically, and it's much less storage friendly. The alcohol one would keep for years if stored properly (light proof vessel, keep away from heat), glycerine more like a couple of months. So with that you couldn't make a large batch to come back to that you know the dosages of, have to retrial the potency.
>>
Lillian Girringnut - Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:31:47 EST h6AlYPAs No.157587 Reply
>>157585
are you sure boiling off the alcohol wouldn't boil out the datura as well? in any way making tinctures still seems to be the best way of consuming datura, i'll look into doing it with glycerine as well

have you heard of amanita muscaria mushrooms? apparently they act on the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors, just like Datura's scopolamine, hyoscyamine and atropine, and apparently it's much more difficult to fatally poison yourself(you would need to consume 100+ g of dried mushrooms)
however, the trip is not the same strong deliria as is with Datura, it is more of a disassociative with mild to strong delirious and/or psychedelic effects
>>
Archie Dundlepodging - Thu, 21 Mar 2019 00:24:21 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157591 Reply
>>157587
I'm not sure about that, could ask /chem/ maybe. A cursory look online mostly yields a big "maybe", and hints if you do it it should be done gently on low heat, maybe with a fan pointed at it for more effective evaporation. And of course to do it in a well ventilated area, wouldn't want to inhale datura vapours while doing sensitive processes.
I guess you could also look into using fats instead to avoid the alcohol, which is kinda the more traditional way. If you could get it potent enough I don't see why you couldn't use that orally, or if you'd want to go for the traditional transdermal approach. Coconut oil seems like it'd be best since it's firm when cool but you could heat it up to strain it so it won't get stronger as it sits. Dunno about shelf life though. Storing it in the fridge would only work if you're living alone, not a good idea to introduce even the possibility of somebody making datura coconut cookies accidentally.

I've read about them some while ago, were always curious but not certain enough in my identification skills to try, they're native to my region. Read an interesting post by somebody once who claimed they put it in a vaporizer and had a very good experience on a relatively small amount of dried material.
Some other thing that stuck with me was somebody chewing it up and spitting out for dental health, claimed his dentist said his caries that was going to get fixed had actually healed. Sounds like a very high chance of bogus though.
>>
Zambor & Ketamine - Thu, 21 Mar 2019 05:59:09 EST f2f4PTHQ No.157592 Reply
>>157584
I don't think it matters, at least for external use (for oral consumption, let's say the alcohol is the least problematic part - and I say that as someone who can't stand pretty much any alcoholic drink - compared to whatever from datura leaves gives the taste)

After doing as in >>157484 I put it in those tiny sample-sized perfume spray bottles, and use it as expectable: the strong forest smell (and maybe some low-dose chemical magic) really brightens me up...

>>157587
Shouldn't matter, ethanol's boiling point is so low compared to scopolamine's (and I don't think there's much that can be denaturated by heat, although to say I didn't ace chemistry in high school would be an euphemism)
>>
Shit Shittinghall - Thu, 21 Mar 2019 15:28:12 EST ydNmENKK No.157593 Reply
>>157592
Wait, so you just use the Datura extract as a.... cologne?
Haven't you tried ingesting it at all?
>>
Zambor & Ketamine - Thu, 21 Mar 2019 17:23:47 EST f2f4PTHQ No.157594 Reply
>>157593
Tried? Yes, keyword tried: from the instant I placed a drop on the tongue, I knew this wasn't going to reach the back of the mouth - it leaves a bad taste lasting tens of minutes

Thi was with leaves as opposed to the more well known seed extraction (speaking of which, nothing has sprouted yet this year :\ )
>>
Shit Shittinghall - Thu, 21 Mar 2019 18:05:41 EST ydNmENKK No.157595 Reply
>>157594
I see, isn't it possible to mix it with some water/juice or whatever you want to cover up the taste?
>>
Trashfuck Cockface - Fri, 07 Jun 2019 00:40:14 EST sSKa9GXv No.157899 Reply
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>>157557
Just eat a teaspoon of fucking seeds, repeat only if needed no more than once
>>
Barnaby Bonderworth - Wed, 19 Jun 2019 13:43:46 EST 6qLZAAfF No.157961 Reply
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>>157578
Here's my Datura Metel plant, it took weeks to sprout and this is how much it grew so far, it's been around 10 days since it sprouted, was expecting it to grow faster but it's all good as long as it's healthy
>>
Barnaby Bonderworth - Wed, 19 Jun 2019 13:48:57 EST 6qLZAAfF No.157962 Reply
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>>157961
Also here's another one that only sprouted yesterday
>>
Hannah Baffingchag - Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:55:44 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157969 Reply
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>>157961
>>157962
Look at those darlings!
It brings me joy you remembered to report back, people just wander off more often than not it seems. Sadly I have to postpone my plants another year cause of just other life stuff, so it's even better to get to see some grow elsewhere.
Are you planning to move them into larger pots later? When I grew mine, they were in pots about the size of the first one in your pics. But then again I can't be sure that was the specific cause they grew a bit frail.
>>
Oliver Settingbury - Fri, 21 Jun 2019 16:37:45 EST 70hTyZ95 No.157971 Reply
>>157969
Yeah I could put it in a larger pot if needed, how big did your plants grow before getting frail? I suppose it could just be the climate, also Daturas are an annual plant so it's not uncommon for them to wilt after a generation from what I understand

And how much time did it pass for you since they sprouted until they grew to that size, I've heard that Datura grows quickly but mine seems to be taking its time, how fast was D. Metel for you?
>>
Charles Lightshit - Sat, 22 Jun 2019 01:25:10 EST 7WsjIFDr No.157973 Reply
>>157971
Grew stramonium that time around, would guess they probably aren't that different in keeping.
And it's probably more accurate to say they just never grew strong, it's only that I didn't notice until they started to topple over when the leaves got large enough, wasn't close to the end of summer. At that point though they were probably about something like 40cm tall. Couldn't say how long it took, my sense of time has never really been working right, and didn't keep a grow journal. I used to carry the pots over to the other side of the house as the sun moved and letting them be outdoors when the weather was good though, for as many sun hours as possible.

Also have you been growing other things? Just thinking it might just seem slow if you don't have any other plant experience to compare to. Or they might be slowed down a bit if they don't get enough sun from their current spot.
>>
George Crobblelerk - Sat, 22 Jun 2019 18:28:21 EST KD2P+EcR No.157977 Reply
>>157973
Ah I see, maybe your plant would have grown stronger if you staked it, I've seen it mentioned that Daturas can grow too quickly and should be staked until they can support their own weight
And no I haven't been growing any other things, the pot is at a window that receives a lot of light during the day, hopefully it will be enough, I'll monitor it
>>
Cornelius Gassleworth - Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:09:49 EST Pqb+94Q4 No.158136 Reply
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Interesting thread, glad I found it.
Datura and Toé has been coming to me in dreams a few times this year. I'll just do a small nibble of a flower by myself, like you >>157569 .

I have a shaman friend who is very familiar with Toé (angel trumpet / brugmansia), who I will most likely ask to do it with in the future.

>>157580
I am also in Scandinavia. I think Datura Stramonium (piggeple, spikklubb, pigæble) is annual and will survive the winter outdoors.
>>
Hedda Gapperfure - Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:01:55 EST 7WsjIFDr No.158214 Reply
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>>157977
>can grow too quickly and should be staked until they can support their own weight
I think I tried tying the stem to a stick in the pot, but maybe it was too thin to be of use, or just too short. Hadn´t thought of that before, thanks for the suggestion, will make use of it at my next planting.
>>158136
>>158137
Brings me joy that you have somebody to watch over you with experience, and we do have some native plants of the area though, like the henbane I mentioned has been used a very long time here but forgotten mostly because of the flood of so much information, we read so much of traditions from other places that we forget the local ones.
>>157592
Huh, somehow I missed this post last time around, very interesting method indeed. Must be a very very light and soft touch, plantwise?
I very much long to see how that smell really feels, the flowers do have a very special scent to them.
>>157593
He could actually be getting results that way, an old tried version of meeting datura is through a fatty paste you put on your skin, a spray of extract could very well be giving a small effect. Also to add on to that, said recipe of fatty application the recipe thereof, is actually heated quite a bunch giving further hints that datura will do just fine with some heat during it´s preparation.
>>
Hedda Gapperfure - Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:20:15 EST 7WsjIFDr No.158215 Reply
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Also as an update for my steps on the trail of curiosity,
never did get around to planting this summer, had a lot of real life stuff to process and work through before I could even think of the responsibility of taking care of another plant life. I think by christmas this year I can have most everything under control and reforged into what it should be, the detour not destructive but just a diversion of time.

Which is also perfect, because the seeds of mandrake actually are supposed to be planted in early january while the cold still bites, to awaken the seeds natural cycle. Need to get my hands on a very large pot, to keep it in should I want to move and take the plant with me. Maybe bury the pot down in the earth to keep the roots safe from freezing over.

I´ll pop back in more frequently now, should any of you need support or clues.
>>
Cyril Neblingmog - Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:37:41 EST FB2vJx0A No.158217 Reply
>>158215
I am OP, my plants >>157961 and >>157962 rotted for some reason, they didn't grow much more at all from those pictures and just stagnated for a month or two before wilting, I don't know why as I watered them frequently, anyone have any ideas? I'll try growing a sapling
>>
Hedda Gapperfure - Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:45:20 EST 7WsjIFDr No.158218 Reply
>>158217
What kind of soil did you use?
If I remember correctly they like sandy soil that lets the water drain through easily. Might have been the earth was simply too moist? Did you ever lift the inner pot out of the larger one to see if it was standing in undrunk water?
>>
Phyllis Fuffingchet - Fri, 30 Aug 2019 14:37:55 EST miRKdCsp No.158237 Reply
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>>158218
>If I remember correctly they like sandy soil that lets the water drain through easily.
If this is the case, you can use premade cactus soil. Available in all garden centers and the like. Probably some flowershops as well.

I planted a few seeds of Brugmansia Arborea and Datura Stramonium a few weeks ago. Followed online instructions, but none have sprouted yet. A friend of mine planted a few D. Stramonium. and he now has 5 flowering plants.

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