420chan now has a web-based IRC client available, right here
Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the float Name#Password
Comment
[*]Italic Text[/*]
[**]Bold Text[/**]
[~]Taimapedia Article[/~]
[%]Spoiler Text[/%]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace text[/pre]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Community Updates

420chan now supports HTTPS! If you find any issues, you may report them in this thread
Which drugs best approximate the dream state? by Cornelius Cumbletedge - Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:15:19 EST ID:3I2kfF55 No.45372 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1479680119470.jpg -(192061B / 187.56KB, 863x597) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 192061
Oftentimes when I am dreaming, I feel 'closer' to the sensory stream and emotions that I experience than when I am awake. It's as if I am one with the images and feelings that I encounter, rather than experiencing them at a remove or as if they are on a screen and I am just a third party to them, as is so often the case in waking life.

Or, to use another analogy, being awake is like being in a bathysphere suspended in an ocean of sensation. You take account of your surroundings, analytically, and judiciously pilot through them. Whereas dreaming is like swimming in the ocean itself, intimate, sensual and immediate.

My question would be, what drug have you used that comes closest to approximating the feeling of being in a dream - that sense of deep immersion with one's feelings and surroundings? I have tried all the classic psychedelics (shrooms, lsd and dmt) and while they are good at breaking down barriers and helping me transcend self, space and time, there is a typically a sort of manic out-of-controlness to the experience that compares poorly with the deep, calm quiescence of the dream state. I've also tried ethanol, DXM, salvia tincture (which never worked), none of which really hit the spot. I'm particular curious about MDMA and Ketamine and how they would compare to the dream state, but I'd love to hear about any and all drugs people have experience with.

To be clear, I don't really care about hallucinations - which most people would probably consider the hallmark of the dream experience - but rather the subdued, mystical closeness one feels with themselves and their surroundings in certain dreams of great significance.
>>
Charlotte Baddlechure - Sun, 27 Nov 2016 06:37:46 EST ID:9TcHwMDK No.45382 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I know you'd like to hear of a drug that can do this for you, but it's not a requirement. To accomplish what in the long run I imagine would be much healthier, would be just to place an emphasis on doing this without. In fact the experimentation, I would assume, with reaching such goals might be more of a 'trip' so to speak while you are sober than that of the experience plenty of drugs out there could allow you.

I may be wrong but there's huge lengths of time worth while that can be spent through this manner. I'm sorry that you're dealing with a lack of immersion in your life.
>>
Charlotte Fiddlewotch - Sun, 27 Nov 2016 15:20:48 EST ID:9bhagYbM No.45385 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>45372
Not exactly what you're looking for but dph literally triggers your dream state while you're awake, causing hallucinations and goofy dream plots to enter the real world. Check out /del/ for more info.

Shits crazy though, I can't recommend it.
>>
John Settingwater - Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:53:33 EST ID:MyCY7fCB No.45386 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>45372
MDMA might get you where you want to go, with few if any hallucinations but a good deal of that sense of closeness. It's certainly given me a sort of "everything's right with the world"-kind of feel even while I was talking to a friend about a girl I just couldn't seem to get over at 7 in the morning. Really helps get you in a mood to talk about things you need to get off your chest without making it an uncomfortable experience.

But really, since you're not looking to get high in a social sense, I'd say you might get more out of experimenting with lucid dreaming and general "oneironautics".
Keep a dream journal, pick up a couple of small habits to check if you're awake, have patience and you can start having lucid dreams which, honestly, will probably get you way further than E ever will.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some E, but in terms of mystical dream closeness I don't think I'll ever top that weird Waking Life lucid dream I had going once where I just walked through cities hundreds of miles apart, talking to myself about things I've since forgotten but which were significant at the time for... Honestly, probably not much more than 15 minutes, but still.

tl;dr: If you nurture your dreams, study up on them and practice, you can have dream experiences that I just don't see as possible in the waking world so long as you stay calm. I've slowed down on the whole oneironaut thing, but I still remember a few specific things that helped me, if you want.
>>
Priscilla Heffingshit - Mon, 05 Dec 2016 00:15:55 EST ID:hMvR+FDD No.45389 Ignore Report Quick Reply
LSD + DXM
>>
Simon Pockwell - Tue, 06 Dec 2016 08:42:17 EST ID:CydJnUEm No.45390 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ketamine can and often does definitely feel like a hyperdream, much more than DXM
waking reality disappears completely and you're left with your mind, your thoughts and feelings and preoccupations become grandiose and euphoric, almost archetypical, sensory symbols, feels like having all of your existential burdens lifted
>>
Cyril Sivingmick - Wed, 21 Dec 2016 20:57:27 EST ID:OqkoVsHx No.45408 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>45372
Honestly the closest thing to a dream I've found was actually sleep and food deprivation. I got bad tonsillitis when I was younger and couldn't swallow food, and couldn't sleep since my own drool I couldn't swallow would wake me up after a few minutes.
I don't know how long it was before I started to hallucinate but I saw two giant black cats on my bed which i had to dissolve by banging on my mattress so that the vibrations from the springs would get them. Later I thought i was having a phone conversation but then looked at my hand and found no phone, I was actually just having a conversation with the TV. That's all I remember but it felt very much like a dream state.
I can understand why some cultures use food and sleep deprivation as a spiritual ritual. It was pretty great except that I felt like shit but I began to not really even notice that after a while. I suppose it may have also been affected by me being sick, not sure if I had a fever or not.
>>
Ebenezer Dumbletodging - Tue, 27 Dec 2016 08:57:08 EST ID:7juvxUfD No.45414 Ignore Report Quick Reply
For me either DPH alone or DPH + Heroin in combo. Not at all that I am recommending you do heroin, terrible idea.

But I was in and out of sleep/consciousness. Was only like 150mg of DPH but I kept passing out for short periods of time and coming back to a conscious state, but my dreams would come with me, if that makes sense. Like there was a lapse in your brain coming back to reality, so that when I'd wake up I'd still be mentally in my dreams but fully awake for a short period of time. Repeat ad nauseum

So might not be exactly the answer you are looking for but for me personally, having done bucketloads of hallucinogens I would still say this.
>>
Hannah Drottingtuck - Thu, 05 Jan 2017 05:51:57 EST ID:zqT5yRWP No.45425 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Deliriants. A lot of abstract thoughts and visions, as well as concrete hallucinations which are interactive and pull you into being convinced you're somewhere else, having a conversation with someone etc.. your environment actually shifts and fades in and out while different encounters with animals and people occur.

I wouldn't recommend for anyone to try deliriants, though. It's deeply physically uncomfortable, even painful and can cause a depression-like state which may last a while, HPPD which can be permanent and other nasty things..

When I first took deliriants and realized what was happening to me, I instantly thought, "just like in a dream." My friend was walking beside me down the street and talking to me, until he got a mischievous look on his face and jumped behind a telephone pole - completely disappearing. I walked a circle around the pole and realized I had been alone for an hour. Then, I looked over in the direction of town I last saw him and even though I was surrounded by tall buildings, I looked over and checked to see if he was outside of the building. I didn't see him. In reality, this would require me to be 40 feet tall and have binoculars. Tell me that isn't like a dream state!!

As interesting as it sounds, I was arrested and hospitalized that same day because the drugs are so inebriating and disorienting. So please take me seriously when I say a story is one thing, but experiencing it and living with the aftereffects are another!
>>
Karamet - Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:52:32 EST ID:YcRM6jQQ No.45432 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>45425
>>
Karamet - Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:53:28 EST ID:YcRM6jQQ No.45433 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>45425 That doesn't sound like fun.
>>
CrazyFolksTribe !owU3wSU682 - Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:52:51 EST ID:beRPvIjh No.45436 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1484106771958.jpg -(87930B / 85.87KB, 775x603) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>45433
It's usually not, but deliriants can be used safely* if you gradually work your way up to a delirium dose over many weeks and many smaller doses. Some people want to jump right in and take a high dose the first time, which can work out alright for psychedelics and dissociatives, but it's more dangerous with deliriants because these drugs can obliterate your normal muscle function, take away your short-term memory and sense of judgment, and cause blackouts. Kind of like benzos, but more debilitating and less comfortable. The hallucinations and imagined scenes are very unique though.

*in a way that reduces the likelihood of you acting crazy or retarded around other people without realizing it


Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.