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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

Abyssinia General

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- Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:32:46 EST MffvHEZt No.57300
File: 1510615966986.jpg -(2205284B / 2.10MB, 2372x3057) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Abyssinia General
It's obvious that most of African history is either lumped into one generalized plot line of "primitive city-states" pre colonialism, or overshadowed by Egypt or mostly ignored all together. I want to talk about the most overlooked empire/empires in Africa, and possibly the world.
As far back as D'mt, Axum and then Abyssinia, the nation-state that is now Ethiopia is a deeply ancient culture and history that has played major roles in world history, dating back thousands of years. Before we get bogged down into "starving Ethiopian" meme's, lets take a second to discuss Ethiopian history, and maybe share some ideas about why it might not ever be talked about in our "post-colonial" society.

Let's have at it!
4 posts and 2 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Charlemagne - Mon, 01 Jan 2018 13:26:17 EST 7moSACzs No.57334 Reply
1514831177246.jpg -(1484013B / 1.42MB, 2542x1524) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Ethiopian art is pretty interesting. It's got this almost anime style to it and of course you get Ethiopian Jesus. And their script is some fantasy shit, having been around since at least the first century AD, being descended from a Bronze Age Arabic script.
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Charlemagne - Mon, 01 Jan 2018 13:28:27 EST 7moSACzs No.57335 Reply
1514831307607.jpg -(157806B / 154.11KB, 490x328) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Here's a pic of Ge'ez. Would have shared an alphabet table but then you don't really get a feel for what it looks like.


History repeating itself.

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- Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:46:20 EST mwxNDmgT No.56026
File: 1440549980871.jpg -(647807B / 632.62KB, 1920x1200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. History repeating itself.
What can we see from past events in history, that can help us piece together the major events of tomorrow?
20 posts and 1 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Sophie Gammlesore - Sat, 28 Oct 2017 01:41:33 EST 1oNFPI90 No.57286 Reply
1509169293941.jpg -(36046B / 35.20KB, 590x350) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Mummys, bitches.
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Ebenezer Wugglebig - Wed, 01 Nov 2017 16:31:44 EST /EK+cIBP No.57293 Reply
>>56026
I got one OP. Those new declassified military docs from the CIA that suggest planting bombs in urban centers and staging shootings to frame Cuba as hostile terrorists might give us some insight into modern terrorism and its ultimate motivations and sources.

If you haven't seen the docs, they're covered here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRdHKn8lULk
>>
John Wuffingnet - Thu, 09 Nov 2017 08:42:06 EST rbK+gS1r No.57296 Reply
>>57293
I doubt that the CIA was directly involved in the creation of modern islamic terrorism, but it's important to remember that Osama bin Laden was trained by the CIA to fight communists using guerilla tactics, so Osama probably just took those plans and lessons and simply applied them to killing American citizens after the Soviet Union fell.

Prechristian germany

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- Sat, 07 Oct 2017 13:17:05 EST BrfXiFVX No.57269
File: 1507396625056.jpg -(363165B / 354.65KB, 1024x961) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Prechristian germany
I'd like to learn more about the Germanic regions before christianism. Any suggestions? Cool facts?
3 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Albert Brenkinridge - Sat, 14 Oct 2017 20:54:02 EST G431o8lC No.57278 Reply
>Did the greek have a lot of influence on the more north-eastern parts of europe?

No. A few Greco-Roman dieties show up in inscriptions around the Rhine. Heracles perhaps more than any other figure shows up all over the place. Consider this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules%27_Club_(amulet)

As influence goes it's trivial. Germans migrating into Roman territory are another story. They were Romanized to varying degrees with some of the nobility learning Greek.
>>
Basil Tootham - Tue, 17 Oct 2017 10:44:01 EST lE3doHR2 No.57280 Reply
>>57277
It's more that the Roman's, in their histories, identified foreign deities with their own Roman figured. Mercury, or Hermes, the psychopomp was equated with Odin, iirc. Hercules would probably have been equated with Thor or a Baldr type figure.

This syncretic identification was by no means unique to the Romans, at any rate.
>>
Edwin Tootbury - Sat, 24 Mar 2018 05:31:44 EST PmmRJlWL No.57410 Reply
>>57277
Well for starters, "Germania" was a concept invented by the Romans. It was used to categorize. Most of these peoples never considered themselves a unified "German" ethnicity much less a nation. That would come later, much later. In ancient Germania, the carrying capacity was much lower than modern times because the forest sod was too thick to cut by the ard plow which was common in such times. Most communities were semi-permanent, and migration constantly according to the seasons. They stuck to morrane valleys, circular areas surrounded by a high wall of rock and debris that were formed by the massive ice shelves of the last glacial period. These areas were treeless and their loose soil easily be cut by the ard, but they lacked in nutrient-rich topsoil. Thus, they were not good for consistent pasturage, and they could only support temporary communities. The thick old growth of the European Plain, now long gone, preempted efficient communications between tribal leaders.

Altogether, and it's not hard to see how radically life could differ from one village to the next based on all sorts of factors but primarily resource availability. Due to the constant migratory pattern, tribes blended into each other and became other tribes. It's the reason we see so many shifting names in the Roman record. Many tribes rose, competed with one another, and collapsed during the span of Rome. And it's hard to make generalizations over such a diverse people over centuries of time. Much of the ancient Germans was built to be temporary, and much of what constituted their cultures is now lost. Many tribes only adopted written languages for purposes beyond symbolism after the fall of Rome. This makes piecing together the intricacies of their culture beyond a limited set of runes not really designed to convey significant information difficult, to say the least. Most of what we know was written by Roman sources, or written after the Fall of Rome. Never do we see a first hand account of living amongst a Germanic tribe in any of this, only third-party accounts relayed to people like Tacitus, who has spawned a great deal of oft-repeated myths as a result of this.

Significant foreign excursions into Germania could trigger mass migrations that threatened the boundaries of the Empire. Scandinavian and Gothic migrations triggered the Marcomannic wars, the Hunnic wars lead to the collapse of the Western Empire itself in time. This belays how precarious life was for the peoples of ancient Germania. Displacement from the best sites was fatal. Food surpluses were thin. This made excursions into Rome for the purposes of securing resources and better land advantageous. Simple excursions for livestock or supplies turned into mass migrations very quickly. In the Marcomannic wars and during the Crisis, Roman willpower was still sufficient enough to halt them. In the later 4th and early 5th century, it was not.

Late medieval thread

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- Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:01:04 EST aLFu7iIl No.57163
File: 1493067664811.jpg -(302917B / 295.82KB, 1000x485) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Late medieval thread
Does anyone have any good lectures, essays etc on the decline of knights as a class and the decline of feudalism in general?
Also, general late-medieval, renaissance thread.
13 posts and 1 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Charlemagne - Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:58:25 EST 6zd51tsO No.57258 Reply
>>57254
The impact the plague had on medieval society is pretty crazy when you start looking into it. Entire noble estates are abandoned/wiped out and then claimed by whoever happens across it, art becomes morbid and twisted, population scarcity causes peasant strikes and revolts because labor is suddenly in major demand, and you get crazy stories like how a pope at the time spent years wrapped in layers of blankets between two fires because they thought heat dissuaded disease.

>>57257
>The crossbow is portrayed as a hunting weapon on fourPictish stonesfromearly medieval Scotland(6th to 9th centuries):St. Vigeans no. 1,Glenferness,Shandwick, andMeigle.[49]The use of crossbows in European warfare is again evident from theBattle of Hastingsuntil about the year 1500. They almost completely superseded hand bows in many European armies in the 12th century for a number of reasons.

From Hastings to the 12th century we're predominantly seeing chain and padding for armor. It was in regular use before the rise of plate armor in the late Middle Ages.
>>
Charlemagne - Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:22:12 EST 6zd51tsO No.57259 Reply
>>57258
Disregard the crossbow bit, I'm an idiot and forgot what your original point was.
>>
Nigel Fanham - Mon, 18 Sep 2017 19:51:06 EST bo3asBrW No.57265 Reply
>>57258

It showed me the one positive example about humanity. Towns became more independent and dirty farmers proved to be able to understand and create great works of culture, philosophy and politics within a few generations and without church support. Literally people who spend most of their time knee deep in mud evolved into great painters, architects and writers. We think humanity is constantly devolving but there are regrowing ressources that clearly don't rely on a genetic advance.

Worst battles in human history

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- Fri, 12 Feb 2016 07:46:23 EST CwlDQeu1 No.56482
File: 1455281183872.jpg -(127399B / 124.41KB, 800x614) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Worst battles in human history
I'm in a pretty soul crushing mood today and I've been thinking about the battle of Passchendaele. All factors considered is there a worse battlefield in human history? Will the world ever see such horrors, like those witnessed by the men in the general vicinity of Ypres during the war? 24 hour shelling, machinegun lines, snipers, chemical attacks and corpses everywhere? By comparison the highly mobile combat led in WW2 seems like a dream to me. Am I missing something?
37 posts and 1 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Ernest Hizzleham - Sat, 26 Aug 2017 14:51:00 EST Rv8hXdtD No.57262 Reply
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>>57255
I really enjoyed the movie, mainly because I kept laughing my ass off at ridiculous scenes like that.

Not sure that was the filmmakers' intention, though.
>>
George Piddlestone - Sun, 27 Aug 2017 01:31:18 EST PMeC+LId No.57263 Reply
>>56496

In that one example, carthage held out for seven fucking years, which would have been enough to defeat almost any other invading enemy, except the romans. The romans first asked for 10,000 talents, and when this was paid, asked them to give 300 noble hostages, and when this was done asked them to give up their weapons and they did so to keep peace, at which point the romans asked them to abandon the city to live in the hills, and then the carthaginians realized they had been tricked, now having to defend the city without weapons. I'd say they did pretty well considering. The romans burned them out house by house, much like the crushing of the warsaw uprising, it saves men to simply destroy rather than take.
>>
Matilda Cickleforth - Sat, 02 Sep 2017 19:43:37 EST i2pzJk0z No.57264 Reply
1504395817878.jpg -(94803B / 92.58KB, 509x587) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>57263

the 3rd punic war was the stuff of legends unseen ever again in the ancient world

the carthaginians actually dug a canal under the nose of the romans to create a new harbor and avoid the blockade, men swam in the ocean carrying torches to set roman ships on fire, carthaginian women used their own hair to create bow strings etc

after carthage fell, the character of the romans never recovered they fought barbarians and civil wars and slowly faded away

What if...?

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- Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:26:19 EST Redgi3D4 No.57230
File: 1500355579902.jpg -(216281B / 211.21KB, 965x772) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. What if...?
So what if all modern wars suddenly had to be fought with swords and other pre gunpowder weaponry?

What would the military tactics be like? Would small groups of armed men run around as they do in modern war with guns or would we have to revert back to lining up in a field?

At first i thought it's obvious that we would adopt modern strategies and tactics but if an enemy decided to go for the line up in a field approach and just started marching toward whatever their target was (a city for example) small pockets of men would seem kind of pointless.

If someone can be bothered to waste time giving me some speculations, i'd be very interested to read. Also would be pretty interested in any examples of ancient armies doing operations that closely resemble modern strategies.
6 posts and 2 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Barnaby Cuckletedge - Tue, 08 Aug 2017 07:23:37 EST rbK+gS1r No.57245 Reply
>>57244
Durrr, of course, they work fine on shit like gambesons and naked skin/normal clothes too.
>>
Cyril Gindleshit - Wed, 09 Aug 2017 11:50:28 EST Redgi3D4 No.57246 Reply
>>57241
>I have an essay to write now.
Do it, please cover tactic and strategy differences
>>
Cyril Hucklespear - Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:36:41 EST Redgi3D4 No.57247 Reply
On the topic of crossbows, i'm not sure what my rules allow for but if kevlar was allowed to stay then i'm guessing we'd have to go back to plate anyway. Last time i checked most blades would be able to get through kevlar and I assume crossbow bolts would be able to penetrate too.

Churchill

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- Wed, 21 Sep 2016 09:17:19 EST jg4fL/jL No.56882
File: 1474463839322.jpg -(56051B / 54.74KB, 648x365) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Churchill
So Churchill has been on a lot of people in the UK's lips on account of him now being on a lot of people in the UK's notes.

There's been a lot of backlash from the people who link him with the Bengal famine, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 and blame him for their deaths. There's also stuff like this popping up http://hitlerorchurchill.info/ (try it, it's interesting). Plus there was his collosal fuck up during WW1 with the Dardanelles.

ALL THAT SAI I can't bring myself to hate him. People of history don't exist in a vaccume, and are products of (and in Churchills case, shapers of) the time they live in. I'm not denying that the Bengal famine was an atrocious loss of life and as a Scottish person I've never been a fan of Britain or the British Empire, but part of me just allows it. This alcoholic infinitely quotable badass that embodied the attitudes of the nation he ruled at the time. Even if the nation was allowing massive amounts of Bengalis to starve to death...

I don't really know what I'm trying to say here, I'd like to think it isn't so simple as "He's a product of his time so that makes it ok" but I can't really explain it otherwise. I'm no apologist to the atrocities commited on his behalf but I just find myself unable to get that pissed off with him. I've heard there's people refusing to accept the £5 notes with him on it.

So what do you guys make of him?
7 posts and 1 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Lydia Dartbanks - Tue, 04 Jul 2017 11:43:57 EST YYFtDXxk No.57212 Reply
>>57005

I love this revisonism lately to use pictures of Roosevelt and Churchill with some Canadian rather than the usual photos with Stalin as the third party
>>
Doris Mucklekurk - Sun, 16 Jul 2017 06:28:17 EST 9CoQeyOj No.57228 Reply
>>57212
>it's revisionism to use different photographs than that one famous one of the yalta conference
>>
Walter Blisslewut - Sun, 16 Jul 2017 14:47:13 EST sVSDp2E0 No.57229 Reply
>>57228
Hey man, history is what you see in history textbooks.

Historical Inconsistencies in Christianity

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- Sun, 07 May 2017 12:22:37 EST zZvV2w/f No.57182
File: 1494174157092.jpg -(163253B / 159.43KB, 736x997) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Historical Inconsistencies in Christianity
I think I just became aware of a large one that most people probably look over or ignore.

According to the Pauline Epistles in the NT, Paul of Tarsus was tasked by the Jewish High Priesthood to go to Damascus to root out the Christian believers there and take them back to Judaea for judgment and execution. This account is already problematic enough considering Paul's supposed Pharisee background and his collaboration with the Sadduccees, and the fact that "Christians" had not even coalesced into a separate religion at the time Paul said his conversion occurred.

But the glaring problem is that: how is it that the Jewish High Priests had jurisdiction over Damascus? At the time, Judaea was a province of the Roman Empire, and of such low status that it was administered as a client of the Roman province of Syria (an Imperial-type Province).

Furthermore, the Jewish Priesthood had many of its prerogatives removed stripped: by 28 CE, the Romans had removed or limited the ability of the Jewish courts to impose capital punishment or to judge themselves by their own ancient laws. Considering the reputation of the Priesthood/Sanhedrin of being 'collaborators', it's likely they themselves

So how the fuck could Paul have been tasked by the Priesthood to go to Syrian Damascus to arrest Roman subjects there? It's the equivalent of a Louisiana policeman driving all the way to Austin in Texas and arresting people there and claiming jurisdiction. It makes no sense, and reeks of a fabricated story.
3 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Sidney Blackstock - Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:12:54 EST +cP8QzkY No.57205 Reply
Rome, despite being viewed as installing completely new and radical governments and changing the duties of the people themselves, making slaves et cetera, often used the government currently in power as a force underneath their army.

What reason would they have to care about ordering the church around if they paid taxes?

Also I read on /b/ some guy doubting Jesus existed and while the few fragments of his life that remain are proof enough for some people, I wanted to point out that the New Testament mentions that the Jewish churched paid the Romans to be silent about him. There are still some sources beyond the Bible, but what better source to learn about Jesus anyways?

The fact that the Bible is incredibly accurate is proof enough I think
>>
Lydia Dartbanks - Tue, 04 Jul 2017 11:26:09 EST YYFtDXxk No.57209 Reply
Jews were given more autonomy than most since the Romans respected their "authenticity" if you will--they were old, and well documented as very old, and Rome--being deeply conservative--revered old things.
>>
Phoebe Wavingnine - Mon, 10 Jul 2017 07:34:52 EST n86/MK/a No.57215 Reply
Religious people are very good at ignoring inconsistencies in their beliefs. That's all there is to it mate.

saharan slave trade

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- Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:44:19 EST tC/dl63y No.57170
File: 1493433859782.png -(329421B / 321.70KB, 600x499) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. saharan slave trade
Any of you follows know any good books about the trans Saharan slave trade? Watched a few good YouTube videos on it and was wishing to learn more.
7 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Nathaniel Clayspear - Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:36:52 EST ncjsiAmY No.57198 Reply
>>57194
Sounds like the rich has been using racism to divide the working class for centuries...
>>
Beatrice Happerbury - Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:44:06 EST YiUudFwN No.57199 Reply
We shouldn't be too surprised. Redneck Southern states do intentionally underfunded their own school systems, after all. It only makes sense that they would be so ignorant of their own history along with everything else.
>>
Jarvis Pinnersere - Sat, 24 Jun 2017 01:09:14 EST N6lY6tKM No.57203 Reply
>thread on islamic slavery
>devolves into "muh US slavery was worse"
classic

The peasants, citizens and background characters of history.

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- Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:19:05 EST 99/qp7+6 No.57206
File: 1498699145998.jpg -(65944B / 64.40KB, 500x385) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. The peasants, citizens and background characters of history.
Most of history is the mundane everyday goings of the populous,
I believe that the masses are really what history is about, not great men.
I'd like to take a chance to talk about the people, the collective, the
"zeitgeist" if you will of the population.

ITT: We talk about the people as if they were a great person.

For instance:
The majority of peoples in the United States (2017) is a slightly overweight, suppressed and tired person. He works for a company that sees him as little more than a resource and he's pretty tired of it. But he's loyal and works hard, to a flaw even and takes any abuse he's given at work for a fairly low wage.

He doesn't trust the government and is skeptical of most people claiming to be a savior. He's very religious and donates a good amount of his cash to christian charities. He tends to only read things that affirm his beliefs and is not open to new ideas. He is divorced or in a loveless relationship, he doesn't much care for his children who for the most part are not as far as he'd hoped they'd be in life.

U.S man (I say man because the U.S is inexplicably masculine) is getting over a long racial-based guilt. He drinks a few beers a day. He drinks a few cups of coffee a day. He's on medication and sometimes doesn't even know what for. He's skeptical of his neighbors, especially if they have darker skin.

U.S man, currently is evaluating his options and is jumping to extreme stances. I hope he can hold it together.
>>
Betsy Sinkinwidge - Fri, 30 Jun 2017 18:08:43 EST OIj+UVJT No.57207 Reply
1498860523050.jpg -(268879B / 262.58KB, 1024x685) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Hell yeah. I think about that shit all of the time.. The real super heroes are the mother fuckers that ate shit and lived through horrid conditions to propel humanity into a state where it was able to thrive. And I mean.. The level of shit eating just built progressively on top of itself.

i.e. everyone has ate shit, but some have ate more shit than others. The barely evolved homo sapien that lived into there 30's and endured the most painful ailments is one level.. The European settler that lived in the more recent centuries was one.. I mean altogether, those struggles add up to get us to this point, here..

It's pretty wild because we don't know shit about them. And really, they're us. We are reflective of them. But their conscious experiences were so much more fucked up than ours - not to say they didn't experience pleasure, too. Or even a satisfying life. But there's so much painful momentum that had to be built up by those poor assholes to get us here.

Historical artifacts questions.

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- Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:27:22 EST CfVamwXk No.57200
File: 1498066042627.jpg -(3052098B / 2.91MB, 4032x3024) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Historical artifacts questions.
Hey fellow stoned history geeks. I have a very interesting piece of militaria in my collection. My research into this is sadly minimal, I learned that Special Forces trained in Germany, and were housed in the same barracks the Waffen-SS trained in. The Death Head was sort of a moral patch in a way. But I would like any more info on this Beret if you guys have any knowledge in this.

And too keep the thread going, if anyone has any historical item from history they are curious about post them here and tell us what you know. Maybe someone can answer a few questions.
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Nicholas Dunkinfuck - Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:29:25 EST CfVamwXk No.57201 Reply
1498066165627.jpg -(3178744B / 3.03MB, 4032x3024) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Here is the soldiers name. Googling found very little as well.
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Archie Dingershaw - Fri, 23 Jun 2017 23:23:43 EST nzDJ3VGr No.57202 Reply
The flash (badge) goes with the 5th Special Forces Group. I seriously doubt it was ever worn in Germany though and not just because that group was never deployed there. That person probably had a patch with just the pattern and they would put their rank in the center.

As for repurposed Nazi construction, that happened all over. There are still Americans living and working in Nazi buildings.

Indian History Thread

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- Mon, 01 Jun 2015 16:50:48 EST OE1PGRtd No.55613
File: 1433191848818.jpg -(196788B / 192.18KB, 500x375) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Indian History Thread
INDIA
I don't hear nearly enough about Indian History, 'specially since they invented shit like our number system and how the ancestors of many Indians are so intimately linked with the ancestors of most Europeans
Like, you know, Sanskrit, Parsi, and Greek share a relatively recent ancestor, 'specially compared to languages like Basque and Spanish or Finnish and Swedish.

So, what d'you think is NEAT about India? Some shit from the Harrappan Civilization? Some fucking thing the Buddha did, or Jainism, or maybe some Hindu mythologies? Babur? The British East India Company? War with Pakistan?
Tell me what you know about the worlds most populous democracy!
84 posts and 12 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Cedric Cellersud - Thu, 04 May 2017 10:16:38 EST 8iQhyERG No.57178 Reply
>>55613
"Everyone bathe in the same river for 200 years. When they ask, you are spiritually advanced."
>>
George Nondleshit - Sun, 07 May 2017 12:06:29 EST YEmgtMe4 No.57181 Reply
>>57178
>Everyone bathe in the same river for 200 years.
Is this supposed to be a joke based off of a fundamental misunderstanding of how rivers work?

The big M

View Thread Reply
- Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:45:23 EST PqJIYKVF No.56862
File: 1473896723745.jpg -(108720B / 106.17KB, 363x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. The big M
/his/, what's the deal with Mussolini? Was he cool? Does he just get trashed because he was a fascist, or was he actually a dic?

pic related.
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Caroline Grandridge - Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:21:17 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56944 Reply
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>>56943
Those are all places Italy invaded and annexed before and during WWII, many of which were neutral or axis powers.
It's silly to paint a fascist power that claimed it was their people's right to conquer other people as some benign victim who just wanted autonomy for their people.
>>
Cedric Cellersud - Thu, 04 May 2017 10:20:33 EST 8iQhyERG No.57179 Reply
>>56862
Look to your left. Now look to your right. Neither of these people will correctly lecture you on Mussolini. College students majoring in political studies have a 1 in 5 chance of being enamored with fascist thought.
>>
Martin Derrysere - Sat, 06 May 2017 00:57:36 EST gLL4HKNH No.57180 Reply
>>56862
I'd say the italian fascist movement in general is more interesting than mussolini the man. In a nutshell he was a socialist (like most anti-establishment intellectuals at the time) who was kicked out of the socialist party due to his refusal to accept neutrality in WW1. Fascist intellectuals saw the bolshevik experience as a failure due to the wide spread famine which occurred after the revolution. He was apart of this circle, although not keenly influential in fascist thought per-se, which through the vanguard of a few heavyweights saw itself make a natural transition from socialism -> national syndicalism -> fascism. This was the a result of asking a pretty important question, how can we get italy off its knees sucking the dick of european powers and on its two feet as a super power?

Italy unified late during the fervor of nationalism unleashed by napoleon and the economic development of italy was also behind its neighbors. Italy needed an industrial revolution but found itself devoid of the natural resources necessary to spark it as england/germany/france were doing.

The result was, in my opinion, a patchwork 'third way' out of economic obscurity and into supposed greatness; part of that was the use of nationalism via their Roman heritage to justify their (once again...) late arrival to the colony scene. Mussolini was expedient in the sense that he wasn't really an ideologue, although i'd say he was an intellectual. Early in fascist development (1921) Mussolini said,

"The state must maintain all imaginable possible controls, but it must renounce every form of economic management"

But fascist third-way corporatism eventually (in my opinion) found itself give way to good ol' fashion socialism under the bolshevik model.

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