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Harm Reduction Notes for the COVID-19 Pandemic

Military History Tidbits and Stories

!!HToBa9dh - Sun, 04 Oct 2015 10:34:33 EST XFinykGi No.56165
File: 1443969273731.jpg -(14604B / 14.26KB, 225x227) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Military History Tidbits and Stories
Post your favourite tidbits of military history and maybe (but please not) get into angry debates over the politics of war.

>be vietnam
>M16 costs 2x more than AR-15
>top brass reads reports that M-16 excels to AK-47 and AR-15
>buys it up, sends all M16s to nam
>jams all the time with a significant amount of people dying next to jammed guns
>turns out massive Colt lobby to inflate M-16 test results
>soldiers use M16 to kill VietKingKongs to get more reliable AK-47s
>be like arms race when you kill a guy, you get an upgraded gun
>M-16 cost around 3-4x more than AK
>mfw M16 still used today
Esther Gucklekuck - Sun, 04 Oct 2015 15:07:13 EST 4PW19Oos No.56167 Reply
>Look at me! I repeat popcultural bullshit and think I'm smart!
Lydia Gudgewater - Sun, 04 Oct 2015 15:38:02 EST 46Ivwr3B No.56168 Reply
1443987482369.jpg -(404733B / 395.25KB, 1600x1065) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

>your detailed defense of M16 reliability goes here
Bombastus !!HToBa9dh - Mon, 05 Oct 2015 00:39:46 EST F7DYsAVq No.56171 Reply
1444019986327.gif -(57329B / 55.99KB, 980x318) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
but.but.but. i like popcultural bullshit
it's always hard for me to get involved in /his/ so i lurk and take in a bunch of information instead. i've never read as much as i want. i've just been on a military history binge in the past few months so i wanted to get more interesting information.

sorry for shitting up your board..............
Fucking Hacklebury - Thu, 08 Oct 2015 12:48:02 EST 26AxHt5F No.56176 Reply
Dont mind him, hes just a dick. You are more than welcome this board and your post is just as relevant as any other.

I will post some military history tidbits soon, but now I must blow a load to hardcore porn
William Cecklesock - Thu, 08 Oct 2015 17:18:26 EST /+tLisk/ No.56177 Reply

That was only the beginning of the vietnam war though. During the later part of it it was pretty reliable.

M16 nowadays is solid.
Emma Blisslewane - Sat, 10 Oct 2015 06:01:06 EST 5fh5bXBr No.56182 Reply
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>Häyhä was credited with 542 confirmed kills... He preferred iron sights over telescopic sights...

>The Soviets' efforts to kill Häyhä included counter-snipers and artillery strikes, and on March 6, 1940, Häyhä was hit by an explosive bullet in his lower left jaw by a Russian soldier, blowing off his lower left cheek... but he did not die, regaining consciousness on March 13, the day peace was declared.

Eliza Pittham - Sun, 18 Oct 2015 14:24:02 EST WSET6RZT No.56205 Reply
1445192642678.jpg -(613394B / 599.02KB, 1450x919) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
I was just thinking I could use a military history thread, by the way, does anyone have any good recommendations for military history books? Been reading one on the cold war written from the Soviet perspective and it's pretty interesting. Read this morning about the Battle of Poltava and goddamn that must have been a magnificent battle to watch. pic related
Clara Bunspear - Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:52:58 EST 3w6Ghlww No.56215 Reply
The Face of Battle by John Keegan

its a tough read but very interesting and insightful, he goes into the actual workings of battles and singular soldiers aswell as the tactics and strategies of generals
the book specifically uses Agincourt, Waterloo, and the Somme
Matilda Fenningkerk - Tue, 03 Nov 2015 01:02:19 EST pIYqIk9c No.56246 Reply

US Army veteran here, can confirm M16/M4 series of rifles as complete shit. My company and myself routinely spent hours each day cleaning our rifles to pristine condition only to be rewarded with countless doublefeeds and other malfunctions on the range. 2/10 would use AK type rifle over M16 type any day of the week.

After I got out of the army, I bought an AK type rifle and never looked back. Fuck M16s, fuck AR15s.
Cedric Honeydock - Tue, 03 Nov 2015 01:38:25 EST yoS4oQiI No.56249 Reply
Soviets designed all their wares to be durable and easy to fix, fridges, cars, rifles. US designs all their wares to be prone to failure and planned obsolesce to ensure continued consumption
Samuel Wibbleham - Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:18:55 EST gzHraJsd No.56299 Reply
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I find it hard to believe that a M16 costs 2 times more than an ar-15 considering the small differences in the two firearms. (pic related)

Fun fact: The military thought the M16 didn't require cleaning and at first did not issue cleaning kits.

In my experience it's a pretty reliable weapon. It has only jammed on me twice. That appeared to be caused by the ammo because the second jam was on the same cartridge as the jam before. I ended up throwing the cartridge away. It only took about a second to clear the jam in any case. Just had to pull the charging handle and eject the cartridge.
Graham Sogglecocke - Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:09:39 EST pIYqIk9c No.56300 Reply

Doublefeeds generally can't be cleared just by pulling back the charging handle, you've got to disengage the magazine and manually pull the jammed rounds out of the chamber. It's awful and common with M16s.
Nell Gottingford - Wed, 18 Nov 2015 05:06:25 EST 5+gDdZ3Z No.56302 Reply

>be vietnam
>M16 costs 2x more than AR-15
No. This is bullshit. They are the same exact specs in reality and are made from the same materials. The only difference between them is the lower receiver, bolt and trigger parts. They cost the same to manufacture. On the civilian market, due to the 1986 Hughes amendment, they are roughly 10k dollars compared to 1k on average for S/A. There is no effective price difference. An F/A colt sells for 1200, a S/A colt of the same exact gun is like 1100.

>top brass reads reports that M-16 excels to AK-47 and AR-15
Wat? The military doesn't consider AR-15 to be even a designation. That is like saying that the M4 excels over the M16. The M16 is better for our military. It is highly modular and easily fixed. The AK design is quick, cheap and easy to make. It is designed to be given to retarded conscripts at the lowest cost possible. It is good for a kamikaze cannon-fodder military. If you have any value in your troops it is a piece of shit.

>buys it up, sends all M16s to nam

>jams all the time with a significant amount of people dying next to jammed guns
Nope. Modern M16's are extremely reliable and even back then, the M16A2 was still very reliable. This is overhyped bullshit. It was also very rapidly that they issued cleaning kits.

>turns out massive Colt lobby to inflate M-16 test results
Nope. It came down to price and modularity.

>soldiers use M16 to kill VietKingKongs to get more reliable AK-47s
Nope. In Vietnam, the M16 and AK sound vastly different and distinct. Shooting an AK-47 would draw fire at you. This may have happened rarely but it wasn't often. AK-47's are very easy to break. I can take any stamped AK and break it in 10 seconds blindfolded. They are extremely weak firearms and have poor longevity in a real world environment. They are meant to be quickly and cheaply replaced, not serviced or kept around for decades after production. AK's only get a reputation for reliability because of retarded wives tales and tacticool gun fags who treat their guns like golden eggs. I've broken 2 AK's. I've yet to break an AR. And by break I mean completely destroy beyond use. AK's have high clearances which make them function well in sand/mud and the 7.62x39 variants have far more of a taper leading to better feeding and operation. 5.56 and 5.45 AK's don't get this benefit, they only have higher clearances. Notice I said clearances instead of tolerances, people need to learn the difference.

>be like arms race when you kill a guy, you get an upgraded gun
Lol no, this was never the case.

>M-16 cost around 3-4x more than AK
I'll agree.

>mfw M16 still used today
The M16 design is used in pretty much every section of the world for good reason. Most countries are taking design features from the M16 in their weapons. Look at the AK-100 series and higher, they all look like M16's.

Not sure if serious. If so first, go fuck yourself for the "Hurr I was Army card." Just because you were in the Army doesn't mean shit and you know it. Being military doesn't mean you can automatically speak about everything related to military with some enlightened position.

I don't know if you and your range queen friends know this but AR's operate best with lots of lube, not being super clean. Every AR I have used with success was dripping motor oil, kroil and white lithium grease and it was literally caked full of carbon and mud and shit. Second, range guns in the military are notoriously shit. Using some gun that has ran through 50,000 rounds and isn't fit for combat isn't accurate numbnuts. Third, since you say double feeds are the issue that simply means you are using shit mags. Double feeds aren't a result of the rifle, they are caused by bad magazines. Spend some of that welfare money they pay you and get decent magazines. All autoloading firearms are are directly related to the magazine when it comes to reliability. 90% or more of the issues stem from the magazine alone.

>Easy to fix.
No, just no. You have no idea what in the fuck you are talking about.

>AR service tools.
Cleaning rod/brush
Pliers maybe

There you go, you can now completely disassemble the entire rifle down to every single last piece.

>AK service tools.
Hydraulic press
Riveting tools
Cleaning rod/brush
Headspace gauges

With that you can disassemble an AK down to its bare parts.

AK's are throwaway guns. They are cheap fast and easy to make and as such they are meant to be cheap fast and easy to replace.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not playing M16 saviour but the weapon is an excellent design but it is far from perfect. AK is what I would take if I was commanding an entire army in a total war. For anything else I would take an M16 however if I had to choose between the two.

Only with shitty magazines are doublefeeds common. People need to stop buying bargain-bin $7.50 non name magazines and shitting on the rifle when they fucking suck. Buy either Pmags or good quality/name SS or Aluminum mags. You can't judge weapons on shitty magazines paired with them. The CETME-L has some of the worst magazines on the planet yet it is a very good rifle. But everyone says it is dogshit because it jams all the time. Put a decent mag in it and it runs like a true G3 in reliability.
Nigger Hinderman - Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:08:19 EST pIYqIk9c No.56303 Reply
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lol, lookit the cute lil civilian, he thinks he knows something!

M16 series rifles suck ass, I know this from experience, you don't deal with it nerd.

pic related, mfw
Thomas Blapperhot - Fri, 20 Nov 2015 06:45:46 EST wWukdLNj No.56310 Reply
He just offered such a long response explaining himself entirely and your in your opportunity to respond you defer erroneously to a sense of superiority gifted by experience in the military and nothing of substance whatsoever. No wonder they sent your braindead ass out on the front to die for their oil wars, you're practically an ape and can't reason or have a legitimate discussion with anyone. Grunt scum.
Shit Pundleshaw - Fri, 20 Nov 2015 20:27:22 EST iwMP3krx No.56311 Reply
lol, what do you have to offer instead? "You're wrong because I'm experienced, deal with it nerd". Why should any of us be led to believe you have any knowledge on guns? Above poster had the decency to type out a long post detailing why he thinks a certain way about these guns, you've offerend nothing but a terrible, meaningless, arrogant shitpost.

Are you incapable of engaging in debate? Do you even know what "debate" means? What about the word knowledge? Is that familiar? Probably not, you should probably stay in the army dude, you're just too dumb for civilian life. You'd probably die in a fire that arose from forgetting your frozen pizza in the oven.

You are the exact reason why legitimate conversation goes to shit on imageboards
Nathaniel Murdworth - Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:04:50 EST yoS4oQiI No.56314 Reply
Us civilians pay your damn salary, baby killer scumbag.
Phyllis Gorrywill - Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:56:10 EST TOCAOikB No.56315 Reply
During the German invasion of Yugoslavia in 1941 the Yugoslavian capital was captured by ten German soldiers that snuck into the city by drifting down the river on hay bales then proceeded into the city and made their way to the German embassy that was mobbed by an angry crowd and threatened the mayor with a huge air strike they could call in from the embassy's telephone, but the wires had already been cut, but the bluff worked and their mayor surrendered
Charlotte Hundertidge - Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:17:32 EST A82+05pk No.56319 Reply

Ever heard of CONVERSATION? Debate and conversation aren't the same, fucking loser.
Faggy Wundlewell - Sun, 22 Nov 2015 09:37:28 EST aiD2Zp+0 No.56320 Reply
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Lmao, looks like even a wall of text can trigger your PTSD huh
Shit Hundlecocke - Mon, 23 Nov 2015 19:40:35 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56325 Reply
if you can't clean your rifle to standard after a day at the range in a couple hours, you're pretty ate the fuck up.
if you can't perform basic weapons maintenance in an hour or so, you're very ate the fuck up.
those were rare at best.
I can't remember a single serious weapons malfunction with an M4.
the machine guns jam up, but you just yank the charging handle back and lay back into it.
are you an POG?

>hur dur fuck soldiers
well fuck that poster and fuck you.
I have a lot more respect for monster guzzling meat heads than I do a pack of pedants from the internet. At least they have a strenuous job that requires skill and effort. (well, most of them)

this is great : D

There exists a thing in the US military called a 'challenge coin' or 'unit coin'. Essentially it's a medallion or coin issued by a particular unit. My Platoon Sergeant (who was a blowhard who liked to hear himself talk, so i dunno about the authenticity of the story) told me the tradition goes back to the early modern period. Allegedly, if a unit performed particularly gallantly in the circa 18th century British army, the commander of that unit would receive the commendation, not the common soldiers. The NCOs would then sneak in the officers tent at night and cut the medal from the ribbon and present it to a deserving private. I've read other origin stories for the challenge coin, all of which are also probably bullshit. [%] i mean it's not like today's military where they'll give you a non-judicial punishment or put you in Leavenworth or some shit. I'd expect an 18th century European soldier to be put in front of a firing squad (or at least flogged half to death) for such an infraction [/%]
Beatrice Clidgedale - Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:11:25 EST +eI0ZzKO No.56326 Reply
I have no respect for soldiers who chose to sign up and want to act like they're better people than the rest of us. Killing Haji in Afghanistan is not fighting for *my* freedom, so fuck that shit.
Phyllis Ballerdire - Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:38:56 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56327 Reply
You'll find that most don't think they're better than anybody.
Fuck, I'm reluctant to even tell people I served sometimes because I'll get a bunch of "thank you for yer serves :-)" shit from regular jackoffs. It's a nice sentiment, but it's cloying as hell and often spoken from a position of immense ignorance.
I think we can all agree that poster is a dickhead and probably a POG who never deployed.
this would be the greatest imageboard on the internet if it weren't so damn slow
Oh, and I wanted to point out that while the US military doesn't fight for the freedom of its citizenry necessarily, they are the ones who will hold the line if some major geopolitical fuckery goes down. Imperialism is awful, but the fact that we're king dick means no foreign power can really threaten us. I have a certain respect for that.
Shitting Brookbanks - Sun, 06 Dec 2015 00:53:57 EST pIYqIk9c No.56358 Reply
>a bunch of dumb civilians who desperately want to think that their ultra tacticool ar15 is super combat effective and just like what the real life army guys use so it must be good!

lol, guys like you are so pathetic. Everyone in the military hates the m16 and m4 series of rifles. I've seen a half dozen soldiers go on sick call just to get out of firing the damn things on range day because:

  1. It's not worth training with because it's such a piece of shit and you'll spend half of your time clearing malfunctions and

2. You'll have to spend hours cleaning it before you can turn it back into the armory which is an immense waste of time because the damn things won't fire properly in the first place.

>blah blah blah ate the fuck up blah blah blah POG blah blah blah

Wow, good job, you know a couple of terms that real life army guys use, congrats. But obviously you never served, otherwise you would know how incredibly common it is to be ordered by your NCOs to sit on your ass and clean your weapon for several hours so they can go jack off in the CQ.

M16 series rifles and all derivatives are complete and total shit, utterly unreliable, and if you use one you will get killed by a haji blind-firing a sixty year old ak47 from cover while you're sitting there with your thumb up your ass trying to clear a doublefeed.

>puts on oakleys
>position of attention
>about face
>about face
>moonwalks away
Simon Dinnerridge - Sun, 06 Dec 2015 15:10:34 EST CBu3jKCh No.56359 Reply
I have heard that story from a few people that were there both for the us. The fucked up thing about taking vc ak47s was that they had to use vc rounds for obvious reasons and their tracers were a different color than the us so during night time fire fight a lot of accidental friendly fire would happen.
Charles Briddlestire - Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:01:39 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56361 Reply
>Everyone in the military hates the m16 and m4 series of rifles.
People bitch about them, sure.
>I've seen a half dozen soldiers go on sick call just to get out of firing the damn things on range day because:
You had soldiers sham out of training to go to sick call? Goddamn that's ate the fuck up.
>It's not worth training with because it's such a piece of shit and you'll spend half of your time clearing malfunctions
I don't remember lots of malfunctions on range days. Then again, we had relatively new M4s, cleaned and maintained them and lubed them up more than a male prostitute who has bills coming up. It sounds like you were in a shitty NG unit who had M16-A1s with more tours of duty than you had.
>2. You'll have to spend hours cleaning it before you can turn it back into the armory which is an immense waste of time because the damn things won't fire properly in the first place.
if the things don't fire properly, it shouldn't take hours to clean them. Cleaning a rifle only takes a lot of time if you've put enough rounds down range to make the inside blacker than a soul music convention in Mississippi catered by Popeye's.

>otherwise you would know how incredibly common it is to be ordered by your NCOs to sit on your ass and clean your weapon for several hours so they can go jack off in the CQ.
We only cleaned our weapons for fun in Iraq and Kuwait. Stateside the only time we cleaned weapons was after a range or getting ready for/coming back from deployment or a training exercise. Also, the NCOs cleaned their shit as well.
>in the CQ
what? all the NCOs in your unit just sat around behind the CQ desk?
>M16 series rifles and all derivatives are complete and total shit,
They're self fouling, require a lot of maintenance and 5.56 NATO is a weak ass bitch round 5real. They're also very accurate and well made.
>utterly unreliable
If you're a shitbag NG POG :3
>and if you use one you will get killed by a haji blind-firing a sixty year old ak47 from cover while you're sitting there with your thumb up your ass trying to clear a doublefeed
nod really.
Haj grandpa would fire from the hip and allahu ackbar and Jo(s)e, would put a few rounds center mass because he's a professional soldier.
Martin Fanstone - Mon, 07 Dec 2015 20:02:13 EST CBu3jKCh No.56362 Reply
>Haj grandpa would fire from the hip and allahu ackbar and Jo(s)e, would put a few rounds center mass because he's a professional soldier.
You just effectively summed up America's geopolitical situation for the last 25 years in one sentence.
Graham Fuckingwill - Thu, 10 Dec 2015 09:35:20 EST +kIQeBMw No.56363 Reply
The hell? When in the fuck did you serve? Not recently, I'm guessing. As far as I know they've pretty much gone and phased out the M16 in favor of M4 Carbine. When I went to the range to qualify with my weapons that was what I had to use and what they issue most gate guards now on bases. Not going to pretend to strut around like an expert, I'm just a desk jockey but even in those rare events that I found myself with a firearm I honestly can't say that I've ever heard any one person taking hours to clean that shit.
Reuben Gaffinglutch - Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:46:14 EST yoS4oQiI No.56364 Reply
He served in the Army National Guard, that's why he was still using M16s
Lydia Drackledutch - Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:49:45 EST ujdd0TQn No.56365 Reply
>Project Babylon

This is some James Bond tier stuff

>Project Babylon was a project with unknown objectives commissioned by the then Iraqi president Saddam Hussein to build a series of "superguns".
>In early April 1990, United Kingdom customs officers confiscated several pieces of the second Big Babylon barrel, which were disguised as "petrochemical pressure vessels".
>The project began in 1988; it was halted in 1990 after Gerald Bull was assassinated, and parts of these superguns were seized in transit around Europe.
>Gerald Vincent Bull (March 9, 1928 – March 22, 1990) was a Canadian engineer who developed long-range artillery. He moved from project to project in his quest to economically launch a satellite using a huge artillery piece, to which end he designed the Project Babylon "supergun" for the Iraqi government. Bull was assassinated outside his apartment in Brussels, Belgium in March 1990 by Israeli Mossad.


While probably intended to bombard Iran and Israel, I like to believe that Saddam had some crazy scheme in mind to invade the USA from space.
Cedric Sonkinweck - Fri, 18 Dec 2015 17:51:04 EST ujdd0TQn No.56373 Reply
You're right but that seems unintentional.

Using a cannon instead of a rocket to escape the boundaries of earth is fun to think about though.
Cedric Sonkinweck - Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:05:52 EST ujdd0TQn No.56374 Reply
>You're right but that seems unintentional.

I'm sorry, I mean the achievement of the Germans seems unintentional, I'm too drunk. nb
Shit Neshlock - Sat, 19 Dec 2015 14:57:15 EST KkbKvXJO No.56378 Reply

The Germans also built a super cannon that was aiming at London but it was destroyed in a raid before it could fire its first shot.
Rebecca Clollerdock - Sat, 02 Jan 2016 17:17:44 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56384 Reply
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You can't get to earth-orbit via cannon, unless you shoot a rocket with enough dV to circularize the orbit before it falls back to earth.
(or move the cannon up really high, and then drop it down before it gets hit in the back)
The orbit of the cannon will always intersect the cannon itself (until air resistance and other forces fuck it up)
Reuben Himbleforth - Mon, 04 Jan 2016 12:55:47 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56387 Reply
No, it's not an issue of force, though that certainly is an issue, but the way orbits work.
An orbit follows an ellipse with the center of gravity at one focus. The gun will always be in that ellipse, as that last image shows.

You could get to a solar orbit with a cannon on earth, but never earth orbit.
Beatrice Borringshaw - Tue, 05 Jan 2016 14:49:29 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56389 Reply
Couldn't you just create a probe/satellite/whatever that uses a huge gun to get into space, then use small rocket boosters to adjust its trajectory?
Isabella Fuckingway - Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:36:08 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56390 Reply
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Yes, but shooting a rocket with enough dV to circularize the orbit before it falls back to earth is fairly difficult, and making a cannon that launches the craft so smoothly it doesn't destroy the cannon and craft would also be fairly difficult.

There's a reason NASA and the like consider pic related to be more realistic than a cannon to actually get to orbit.
Doris Gaddleridge - Thu, 07 Jan 2016 00:09:18 EST Qw9xlhKV No.56392 Reply
i think i made something like that in rollercoaster tycoon. the guests stopped going on it after the first few test runs though.
Eugene Fiblingstock - Fri, 08 Jan 2016 18:05:36 EST 46Ivwr3B No.56398 Reply
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So no chance of pic related any time soon...


The ride never ends, my friend.
Shaman !MbOrDArdlI - Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:46:42 EST vuu302UU No.56475 Reply

just think of a rocket as a reverse cannon and don't feel to bad.
Emma Wollyfoot - Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:52:07 EST pIYqIk9c No.56489 Reply
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Just a quick reminder that the M16 and M4 series of rifles are malfunctioning piece of shit peashooters that 95% of soldiers hate. As a veteran, whenever I see a civilian with an AR-15, I know that they are wanna-be tacticool douchebags who don't know anything about weapons systems.

Enjoy your doublefeeds, losers.
Ian Fodgesit - Sun, 14 Feb 2016 06:15:26 EST EYQ6O056 No.56499 Reply
>95% of soldiers hate.
[citation needed]

>As a veteran
Were you? Of what?
Jarvis Clinderwill - Sun, 21 Feb 2016 14:02:50 EST x7WtT6UX No.56546 Reply
That makes sense, I will not get one now... Time to go to the costco buffet
Lillian Crockleneck - Sun, 21 Feb 2016 16:12:35 EST yoS4oQiI No.56547 Reply
I was at the shooting rage a few years ago. There were two guys, one had an M4 or AR15 something and another had an AK. The guy with the AK would shoot 3 shots and then look down range, and then fire 3 more. The guy with the M4-looking gun would fire 1 shot, then have to clear the rifle then shoot 2 or 3 more and then have to clear the gun.

It was really quite funny.
Jenny Ducklestone - Mon, 22 Feb 2016 06:37:31 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56548 Reply
I've fired an M-4 many times and never had a single malfunction.
I swear people don't clean/lube their shit.
Eliza Dellerwell - Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:02:24 EST WJ647f/P No.56585 Reply
Fuckin right on
You forgot one of the tools used to service aks, the duct tape
Edwin Sebberbury - Fri, 22 Apr 2016 06:27:02 EST WhY2x3bu No.56655 Reply
what if you just shot it straight up from the surface like a rocket.
nb because old

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