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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

Worst battles in human history

- Fri, 12 Feb 2016 07:46:23 EST CwlDQeu1 No.56482
File: 1455281183872.jpg -(127399B / 124.41KB, 800x614) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Worst battles in human history
I'm in a pretty soul crushing mood today and I've been thinking about the battle of Passchendaele. All factors considered is there a worse battlefield in human history? Will the world ever see such horrors, like those witnessed by the men in the general vicinity of Ypres during the war? 24 hour shelling, machinegun lines, snipers, chemical attacks and corpses everywhere? By comparison the highly mobile combat led in WW2 seems like a dream to me. Am I missing something?
Caroline Guttingstadge - Fri, 12 Feb 2016 08:47:53 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56483 Reply
I dunno man, finding the worst battles in history is pretty tricky because things are relative.

I remember reading somewhere that relatively speaking, the English invasion of France during the 100-year war makes D-Day look like a comfy day on the beach.
Shit Cloddleford - Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:24:03 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56485 Reply
This is true, to an extent. It's true because some war in China might claim millions of lives and society in general would barely bat an eye. Meanwhile, a defeat of the US army at the hands of an Indian confederation that occurred near here was the greatest proportional loss by the US army in American history. around 1000 people died
Lydia Bamblelat - Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:52:45 EST CwlDQeu1 No.56487 Reply
To be honest I don't think death toll is the deciding factor, I was thinking more in terms of psychological horror the troops endured. Granted, deaths play a part in it, but other factors make the human psyche snap a lot quicker.

Are you referring to the battle of Agincourt? If so, then yes, I can see how that was a horrendous place to be in. Imagine you're a knight, well armed and armoured going against the French. Expecting your biggest issue to be the crossbowmen, but then things go awry. The majority of the knights are stuck in the glue-like mud that just sucks your feet in deeper and deeper, you struggle to break free, but fail only to fall flat on your face and can't move. You will either suffocate in the mud, or you will get stabbed probably in the eye socket like a helpless animal.
Hedda Pubbleneck - Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:36:20 EST ZehXZOiW No.56488 Reply
Except it was the French who were fucked in that battle.
Whitey Dropperhall - Sat, 13 Feb 2016 06:29:03 EST Tqrn+O6W No.56490 Reply
One difference in Ancient city battles to a larger extent was the very real risk of having your wife raped and sold into slavery along with your children. I Imagine the grief of knowing that was possible if you lost was difficult to deal with.

When Rome wiped Carthage off the face of the Earth. Men were raking piles of bodies and debris from the roads to make way for the cavalry. Near the end the Romans had encircled a hill in Carthage called The Bursa that had many hundreds of Carthaginians on top. In their desperation the besieged built an enormous fire on the hill and threw their children into it before throwing themselves in.
Shit Gogglelock - Sat, 13 Feb 2016 07:01:29 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56492 Reply
One of the biggest naval and military defeats the English ever had, was when the Dutch sailed up to the Thames, burned down the English fleet stationed near London, raided a town and destroyed various fortresses near the coast and the Thames and stole the English flagship Royal Charles and another vessel and towed them back to the Dutch Republic. They cut those two ships up for firewood (and to insult the English), and the stern of the Royal Charles is still in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. Whenever English royalty visits the Rijksmuseum, the staff puts the stern in storage, it's not really the finest symbol of English-Dutch relationships.
Shit Gogglelock - Sat, 13 Feb 2016 07:02:58 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56493 Reply
Now I think about what I just wrote... imagine what it would have been like for English civilians that lived near those fortresses.

It would have been some fucking 9/11 shit. You're just living your life, and suddenly Dutch soldiers show up, start bombing fortresses, burn down ships and raid your village.
Thomas Fellernog - Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:03:45 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56496 Reply
What is it with people (ancient and modern) killing themselves instead of dying in battle? I could understand the women and children being put out of their misery, but able-bodied men? Mediterranean people are such cowards, Ragnarok for life.
Fanny Pezzlepark - Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:39:46 EST aQVjg6fK No.56500 Reply
How about when Germany invaded Russia during WWII? The Germans were being forced to exterminate the Jews as they went. And the Russians were not allowed to retreat no matter what. Remember these were normal people like you and me. If you retreated you were immediately executed gunshot and your wife/family would soon after disappear. Hell, if you and your friend were in the trenches and you were ordered to move forward even though you were pinned down by machine gun fire you would have to go. If your friend refused or deserted you had to shoot him, or else it was law that you could be shot yourself if you didn't try to stop him
Phyllis Pebberhotch - Mon, 15 Feb 2016 04:14:07 EST 26AxHt5F No.56505 Reply
>the Russians were not allowed to retreat no matter what.

This is a gross exaggeration man. There was penal battalions, comprised of prisoners/convicts, who were often indeed shot if they retreated. But overall for your common solider it was not protocol to shoot them if they retreated. You sound like a 16 year old who just saw Enemy at the Gates for the first time. Do you also think that half of the entire Russian army had to go into combat without guns?
Alice Davingwotch - Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:53:20 EST zrHwahau No.56506 Reply
Stalin issued Order no. 227 in July of 1942. Read what it involved. The battles of the Eastern front were among the worst ever in history. Think Stalingrad and Leningrad. Fucking millions dead as both Germany and the Red Army ramped up the atrocities as the war progressed. Of course I don't believe that everyone followed it word for word and there may be some grey area, but such orders are esspressly written with extremenly harsh punishments so people could not in any way go around them.
And no I haven't seen Enemay at the Gates ever.
Ian Handernure - Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:29:00 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56507 Reply
You're talking about a few battles that took place when Russia was about to turn the Blitzkrieg into a desperate retreat.

Of course Stalin wanted to make sure those battles went exactly as planned.

But those rules didn't count for the entire war.
Eliza Foblingway - Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:45:15 EST 6PhWCkVP No.56512 Reply
Posts like this show how limited my knowledge of the eastern front in second world war 2 is. I just have this general narrative that goes something like;
>Hitler blitzkriegs USSR and catches Stalin off guard (who was planning an invasion of his own)
>The Nazis zergrush across the west of the country, finally ground to a halt by long supply lines and an endless horde of peasants
>The Soviets slowly push back the German forces over the next couple years
>The German high command is plagued with problems, and by problems I mean Hitler being insane and a shitbag general
>Russians overrun Eastern Europe
Jarvis Dottingbun - Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:48:40 EST 63MKIHcU No.56513 Reply
Sure ok. My point was to discuss what the previous poster was saying how Europeans were cowards and the vikings were the bestest
Martha Dringerditch - Mon, 15 Feb 2016 23:41:18 EST bmbARlua No.56514 Reply
Dan Carlin, wh o knows much more about history than me, mentions that there are hundreds of battles that could be considered "the worst place to be in history" but makes a pretty credible argument that the battle of verdun in WW1 was one of the most awful things to happen in the history of mankind.
Phineas Guddleford - Tue, 16 Feb 2016 06:41:14 EST ds8inZ+D No.56517 Reply
His podcasts on WW1 are amazing. His Verdun episode was my favourite for sure. We can ever only imagine - and thankfully so.
George Wacklecheg - Tue, 16 Feb 2016 07:51:09 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56518 Reply
I've heard people say the Crimean war was even worse than WW1, at least in WW1 you had trench rotation (one week on the front trench, one week on the middle trench, one week in the back trench) and the weather was relatively mild.

The Crimean war was basically WW1 with no trench rotation (because digging trenches were not a solid strategy yet, but instead something soldiers just did out of necessity to survive IIRC) and the climate was much much colder.

I might be horribly wrong, most people don't know shit about the Crimean war, including me.
Charlotte Hubbleshaw - Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:09:50 EST ClrJUKTz No.56521 Reply
Yeah you could be right, but I guess it's kind of hard to define wars as worse or better. I genuinely don't know shit about the Crimean War but it does interest me. To be honest there's so many conflicts during the 1800s and they all intrigue me.

Franco-Prussian War
Austro-Prussian War
Russo-Turkish War
Russo-Persian War
French Intervention in Mexico
Carlist Wars of Spain
Boer Wars
Boxer Rebellion

And Crimea of course, which was probably one of the most important ones outside of the Napoleonic conflicts. So much conflict, all over nothing really too. Just great powers playing geopolitical chess at the costs of thousands of peoples lives. Not that it's much different today, but they were so open about it back then.
Martha Dringerditch - Tue, 16 Feb 2016 18:51:15 EST bmbARlua No.56523 Reply
>Boxer Rebellion
That's the only one I know the slightest about.
God damn, what a fucking trip. A extemporaneous and decentralized uprising against foreign powers that involved the chinese rebels thinking that they couldn't be harmed by foreign weapons.
History you crazy.

The taiping rebellion is another one. It's events like these that make me think about how amazing humanity is. I mean obviously these are both terrible events to have occured, but just the sheer vastness of our past... I don't really know what I'm getting at here, really really stoned. But yeah, history is amazing.
Archie Suggleway - Sun, 06 Mar 2016 19:56:54 EST k8ljpevx No.56571 Reply
> China has the Forbidden City
> no commoner or outsider has ever dared enter it
> enter the 9th Infantry Regiment
> march 88 fucking miles to the palace
> break the fucking door down
> storm the place
> commander is mortally wounded
> last words are "Keep Up the Fire"
> 9th destroys the Chinese

God that is badass. Also I had the rare opportunity to do the" Manchu Mile"
Ernest Chosslesune - Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:54:33 EST slEOrfVs No.56574 Reply
Mid-late 1800s was the first era of truly professional warfare. When firearms and industrial production technology was first becoming modernized and changing at impressive rates allowing for warfare on a massive scale and imperialism on a massive scale.

I'd add the US Civil War and Russo-Japanese war to that list as well. Kind of the book ends to that era before the true slaughter of WW1.
Betsy Clayforth - Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:32:59 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56575 Reply
Mind you, it's also the beginning of a massive population explosion.

A war that kills say I dunno 100,000 people is less destructive than a war that kills 1,000 people when the first war took place when there were 3,000,000 people around and the second war took place when there were 3,000 people around.

Just because a lot people died doesn't mean it was a war where a lot of the population died. You get the idea. You can only look at relative numbers.
Yoshi - Wed, 30 Nov 2016 07:33:09 EST yWCGJTNc No.56999 Reply
If you've ever seen someone shot It's not a comparative thing, dosn't make a damn bit of difference about the circumstances, but I suppose if you were a survivor and saw it over and over again and had to fight on top of it passchendaele is pretty far up there. Violence or seeing someone dying is all it takes to get your adrenal system going max but the futility and consistency of ypres combat could prove to be about as far as you can take it.
Sidney Guffingpudge - Wed, 07 Dec 2016 10:17:03 EST nLTvpZ14 No.57003 Reply
The weirdest thing about Chinese history is that if the Chinese weren't so afraid of peasants running around with guns, we'd all be talking Chinese right now on the internet.

The fear of peasants with guns (which people in the West have had, but just ignored - to the detriment of quite a few royal families), is basically what stopped Chinese innovations in gunpowder weapons after being at the forefront of its development for hundreds of years.

China's history is like discovering some Atlantean lost society of ancient alien technology - except it all really happened.
Ebenezer Honeydale - Wed, 07 Dec 2016 19:57:31 EST GBTnxtdM No.57004 Reply
This is how I feel about Indian history too.
There's this gigantic continent that was just doing it's own thing for thousands of years. Philosophy, music, art, warfare. All as important and valid as European history, but it's almost never discussed.
Fanny Pushdit - Thu, 08 Dec 2016 21:15:27 EST YEmgtMe4 No.57008 Reply
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It's very subjective but I've heard that the Battle of Okinawa was particularly brutal, bloody and psychologically devastating.

Also, for what it's worth, HBO's "The Pacific" gave me the impression that Peleliu was a descent into madness.
Cornelius Cattingtodge - Wed, 11 Jan 2017 15:08:29 EST op4eAzh2 No.57037 Reply
Kind of like how China could have conquered the Age of Exploration if the emperor didn't arbitrarily ban transoceanic voyages and let the Iberians do all the discoverin'.

Read up on Zhang He and the treasure fleets, and be amazed.
Isabella Crudgewuck - Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:58:57 EST 8wyB/NwZ No.57041 Reply

what a lot of people also dont know is as the germans were steamrolling into mother russia, stalin ordered a mass relocation of millions of people and a rebuilding of industrial areas and basically did the same shit the u.s. is famous for in ww2, but on a much grander scale and over more years
Archie Brabblebanks - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:46:55 EST nLTvpZ14 No.57046 Reply
Talking about weird historical exploratory shit.

Iceland was discovered by the Greeks during Antiquity. They never landed there, because they saw it as a pile of frozen rocks, but they did discover it. Some Greek explorer from Marseilles (which was founded as a Greek colony, not a French city) sailed from Marseilles all along the coast of West and North Europe until he reached polar ice and turned back.
Reuben Habblestone - Tue, 24 Jan 2017 06:43:34 EST vClVXRJl No.57047 Reply
Considering it was uninhabited until the Vikings that is interesting. Though I guess it's kind of irrelevant because the Greek and Romans would have never settled there, it really was just a pile of frozen rocks. Ireland was too rainy, far, wet, cold, boring and populated with savages as it was. Nevermind Iceland.
George Ferryfid - Tue, 07 Feb 2017 22:40:25 EST M+lZDv5i No.57066 Reply
The Pacific theatre of WW II is kinda the opposite but related, it takes true bravery to charge to death. With the Japnanese doing banzai attacks from well-fortified positions instead of holding out as long as possible. Their best fighter pilots trying to kamikaze a battleship instead of staying alive to fight again.
Charles Gezzlehotch - Thu, 20 Jul 2017 04:12:58 EST R5CmWaGx No.57233 Reply
this. take a look at Hacksaw ridge. good movie depicts the japanese' mentality during the war
Cedric Soddlebodge - Tue, 08 Aug 2017 04:48:14 EST lJYPBOas No.57242 Reply
I'm doing an indian history paper atm for exactly that reason. Like, its not like there was no history. There were hundreds of fucking massive empires.

I feel like we need a state who's education department just makes games based on periods of history that get neglected.
Ebenezer Tillingham - Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:22:06 EST bayldp7v No.57255 Reply

I saw one scene where a guy picked up a human torso and used it as a shield while charging at the Japanese and firing 200 rounds from his BAR. I can't help but think that this movie is a piece of shit.
Fucking Hingershit - Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:18:05 EST /+tLisk/ No.57260 Reply

I happened to watch it with a bunch of marines. They called it the most unrealistic movie ever.
Sidney Clugglekot - Fri, 25 Aug 2017 05:30:16 EST 82WzNMAT No.57261 Reply
They obviously haven't seen Big Mommas House 2.
Ernest Hizzleham - Sat, 26 Aug 2017 14:51:00 EST Rv8hXdtD No.57262 Reply
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I really enjoyed the movie, mainly because I kept laughing my ass off at ridiculous scenes like that.

Not sure that was the filmmakers' intention, though.
George Piddlestone - Sun, 27 Aug 2017 01:31:18 EST PMeC+LId No.57263 Reply

In that one example, carthage held out for seven fucking years, which would have been enough to defeat almost any other invading enemy, except the romans. The romans first asked for 10,000 talents, and when this was paid, asked them to give 300 noble hostages, and when this was done asked them to give up their weapons and they did so to keep peace, at which point the romans asked them to abandon the city to live in the hills, and then the carthaginians realized they had been tricked, now having to defend the city without weapons. I'd say they did pretty well considering. The romans burned them out house by house, much like the crushing of the warsaw uprising, it saves men to simply destroy rather than take.
Matilda Cickleforth - Sat, 02 Sep 2017 19:43:37 EST i2pzJk0z No.57264 Reply
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the 3rd punic war was the stuff of legends unseen ever again in the ancient world

the carthaginians actually dug a canal under the nose of the romans to create a new harbor and avoid the blockade, men swam in the ocean carrying torches to set roman ships on fire, carthaginian women used their own hair to create bow strings etc

after carthage fell, the character of the romans never recovered they fought barbarians and civil wars and slowly faded away

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