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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

The big M

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- Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:45:23 EST PqJIYKVF No.56862
File: 1473896723745.jpg -(108720B / 106.17KB, 363x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. The big M
/his/, what's the deal with Mussolini? Was he cool? Does he just get trashed because he was a fascist, or was he actually a dic?

pic related.
>>
Henry Fivinghood - Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:14:33 EST A/h6MWiN No.56870 Reply
He was a dick and a loudmouth who promised everything but delivered almost nothing.
>>
Phyllis Pickbury - Sat, 17 Sep 2016 17:27:53 EST vLZNJtSu No.56871 Reply
>was he cool
>fascist dictator

.................no?
>>
Cornelius Clallywell - Wed, 21 Sep 2016 06:03:40 EST FqRGTRMQ No.56881 Reply
>>56880
Given how all his military expeditions were failures, it's very likely that ANY other government would have brought even more prosperity to Italy.
>>
Hedda Crommlefodge - Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:16:29 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56887 Reply
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>>56886
>implying South-eastern France shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying all the Mediterranean islands shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Slovenia shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Albania shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Greece shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Croatia shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Yugoslavia shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Libya shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Ethiopia shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying Somalia shouldn't belong to the Italians
>implying parts of China shouldn't belong to the Italians
>>
Phyllis Henkinstutch - Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:16:38 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56891 Reply
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>>56890
"The Jews" never declared all those territories were their right to seize as living space.
You could have make some arguments about Israel's geo-political actions, but you just had to go for the jews...
>>
Priscilla Docklestock - Fri, 23 Sep 2016 19:51:19 EST drL7sWsr No.56892 Reply
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>>56880
he brought george patton and the us 5th army to italy, too
>>
Frederick Pittgold - Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:54:36 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56898 Reply
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>>56895
No, Jews outside Israel, and even many of them in Israel have absolutely nothing to do with Israel's imperialism.
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Cedric Worthingridge - Sun, 25 Sep 2016 03:24:54 EST wlEcThYX No.56901 Reply
>>56870
Basically this.
He was an incompetent shitbag.

>>56886
>>56880
>>56895
Pure ideology.
>>
Reuben Miblinglune - Mon, 26 Sep 2016 07:08:14 EST SIP4jdtu No.56903 Reply
I dont know much about his politics apart from selling out Italy to the Nazis however his speeches are entertaining because he made a lot of funny faces to get his points across.
>>
Polly Fanford - Tue, 27 Sep 2016 14:09:49 EST e2GtWGAH No.56907 Reply
Unlike Hitler he was an intellectual who actually studied philosophy and ideology and didn't have any racial theories, he wanted the best for Italy and everyone else to get fucked but not because of any weird superman myths. Italian jews and Libyan Mulsims (who were Italians at the time) were A-ok with him. This changed during the war when he had to suck up to Hitler though.

Also he actually did almost eradicate the mob, the Americans reinvigorated them during the invasion because they were the most vigorous anti-fascists for some bizarre reason.

That said though, he just wasn't very good at running a country, he repeatedly broke off chances at a British alliance or even joining the allies wholesale against Germany, but he picked the wrong team. His economic reforms were non-sustainable at best and actually harmful at worst, the war on grain didn't do anything but depress grain prices and spread rural poverty in Italy. And his foreign wars drained the government budget and prevented them from modernizing the military in time to actually participate in WWII as more than a German puppet state.

He also died a broken man doubting everything he had ever done in his life.
>>
Nathaniel Bungold - Tue, 27 Sep 2016 19:53:33 EST WY7tDPZi No.56908 Reply
>>56907
In other words, he was an incompetent shitbag.
>>
Caroline Claffingworth - Thu, 06 Oct 2016 16:39:04 EST dl+0XG2p No.56922 Reply
>>56887
when and where did Mussolini lay claim to these things?
>>
Jenny Pengerstadging - Fri, 07 Oct 2016 11:59:40 EST OCvDlz2U No.56923 Reply
>>56922
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of Libenstrum/Spazio Vital?
Italy's interbellum wars of imperialism?

Here's a transcript of his very declaration of war on the allies with english translantion.
https://historicalresources.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/mussolini-speech-of-the-10-june-1940-declaration-of-war-on-france-and-england/
>We take up arms to resolve, after having resolved the problem of our land frontier, the problem of our maritime frontiers; we want to break the territorial chains which suffocate us in our own sea; since a people of forty-five million sould is not truly free if it does not have free access to the ocean.
>The single order of the day is categorical and obligatory for all. It already spreads and fires hearts from the Alps to the Indian Ocean;
>>
Angus Fommerhood - Sun, 09 Oct 2016 07:42:39 EST dl+0XG2p No.56932 Reply
>>56923
But nothing in here indicates that Mussolini actually laid claim to the places you listed in your other post.
>>
Angus Fommerhood - Sun, 09 Oct 2016 07:43:34 EST dl+0XG2p No.56933 Reply
>>56923
The quotes you chose are ambiguous, I could also uote this part:

>I solomnly declare that Italy does not intend to drag into the conflict other peoples bordering her on land or on sea. Switzerland, Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Egypt take note of these my words and it depends on them
>>
Graham Grandcocke - Sun, 09 Oct 2016 08:16:18 EST iKR+d+1N No.56934 Reply
>>56932
>Yugoslavia, Greece, Egypt
He invaded all three, mostly under the justification of living space or that they were blocking territorial expansion.
He demanded Greece cede territory, then invaded and annexed them when they didn't.
Yugoslavia, they invaded under the pretext of restoring an axis government from a coup, then annexed the country.

Hell even before the outset of war, they invaded Albania (an ally), Ethiopia, sent troops to support Franco (this is an act of war).
>>
Jack Febbleridge - Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:26:37 EST yktqtAT6 No.56935 Reply
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>>56886
See, but who are "the Italians"? Italian wasn't even a single mutually-intelligible language until the end of the 19th century. The formation of a united identity out of a host of disparate populations is a fucking nationalist fantasy, one that is cruelly consuming most of the world's heritage which it hasn't already erased.
>>
Ebenezer Grandfield - Mon, 10 Oct 2016 02:43:56 EST drL7sWsr No.56937 Reply
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>>56935
greek-speaking italians (greco-italians..? wiki says Griko people) blow my fuckin mind.
magna graecia duuuuuude
>>
Betsy Pashcocke - Mon, 10 Oct 2016 18:44:41 EST QloOc9co No.56938 Reply
>>56935
>The formation of a united identity out of a host of disparate populations is a fucking nationalist fantasy
Well it's not exactly a wacky idealised dream. It worked out pretty well for Germany, France, Spain. The unification of Italy helped get rid of the monarchies and the papacy and install a republic. You can say "who are the italians" but the milanese were happy to liberate themselves from Austrian rule and join "the italians".

I view nation states as a result of progressive republican thinking in the 18-19th century. What is it you have against it? We're not talking the clumsy post soviet mushing together of Yugoslavia here, where there had been genocides committed by members of the union less than 50 years before the union took place. The unification of Italy was welcomed by the inhabitants of "Italy" and allowed Italy to become a modern european state, with all the benefits of life that come with that.
>>
Cornelius Snodwill - Tue, 11 Oct 2016 15:05:34 EST o53eXY05 No.56939 Reply
>>56938

>Italy
>republic

They were a monarchy until 1943 when the king fired Mussolini.
>>
Jenny Crozzlekedge - Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:14:10 EST 6GUxSp3q No.56943 Reply
>>56934
Okay, so what about all the other places you named? You said parts of china in your last post.
>>
Caroline Grandridge - Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:21:17 EST 8hSk1rC9 No.56944 Reply
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>>56943
Those are all places Italy invaded and annexed before and during WWII, many of which were neutral or axis powers.
It's silly to paint a fascist power that claimed it was their people's right to conquer other people as some benign victim who just wanted autonomy for their people.
>>
Cedric Cellersud - Thu, 04 May 2017 10:20:33 EST 8iQhyERG No.57179 Reply
>>56862
Look to your left. Now look to your right. Neither of these people will correctly lecture you on Mussolini. College students majoring in political studies have a 1 in 5 chance of being enamored with fascist thought.
>>
Martin Derrysere - Sat, 06 May 2017 00:57:36 EST gLL4HKNH No.57180 Reply
>>56862
I'd say the italian fascist movement in general is more interesting than mussolini the man. In a nutshell he was a socialist (like most anti-establishment intellectuals at the time) who was kicked out of the socialist party due to his refusal to accept neutrality in WW1. Fascist intellectuals saw the bolshevik experience as a failure due to the wide spread famine which occurred after the revolution. He was apart of this circle, although not keenly influential in fascist thought per-se, which through the vanguard of a few heavyweights saw itself make a natural transition from socialism -> national syndicalism -> fascism. This was the a result of asking a pretty important question, how can we get italy off its knees sucking the dick of european powers and on its two feet as a super power?

Italy unified late during the fervor of nationalism unleashed by napoleon and the economic development of italy was also behind its neighbors. Italy needed an industrial revolution but found itself devoid of the natural resources necessary to spark it as england/germany/france were doing.

The result was, in my opinion, a patchwork 'third way' out of economic obscurity and into supposed greatness; part of that was the use of nationalism via their Roman heritage to justify their (once again...) late arrival to the colony scene. Mussolini was expedient in the sense that he wasn't really an ideologue, although i'd say he was an intellectual. Early in fascist development (1921) Mussolini said,

"The state must maintain all imaginable possible controls, but it must renounce every form of economic management"

But fascist third-way corporatism eventually (in my opinion) found itself give way to good ol' fashion socialism under the bolshevik model.

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