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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

US exceptionalism myth

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- Sun, 23 Sep 2018 07:55:03 EST 4ndgi8mn No.57528
File: 1537703703684.jpg -(6781673B / 6.47MB, 6000x4000) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. US exceptionalism myth
Why do US retards think that the US won WWII single handedly? I drive uber and had some army guys in my car the other day and they were SHOCKED, MORTIFIED that I suggested that the USSR was both the superior fighting force and were the ones who defeated Nazi Germany (if any one force can be thanked it is indeed the Red Army).

I think its really important that Americans be told that their military is actually shit and they havent contributed a single fucking significant thing to the good of humanity in military terms besides an ASSIST in WWII. The rest of the entire military history of the US is predatory imperialist meandering around the globe and has been a net loss for humanity.

ITT we discuss good ways to teach americans that their military is evil and they are stupid to support it
>>
Ian Munderkag - Sun, 23 Sep 2018 21:56:17 EST fs4KJ0Z4 No.57529 Reply
Yeah a lot of people were not taught the proper history in school sadly. I only found out about this stuff in my twenties. Oliver Stone helped.
>>
Thomas Sarringstare - Mon, 24 Sep 2018 16:34:51 EST I0gh1mqC No.57530 Reply
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To be fair the US did win the Pacific War more or less single handed. I was actually just reading a bit on it today, it's a neat war, two young and energetic powers just as they're maturing and reaching the heights of their strength, and also in a time in society where everyone is on meth, going no holds barred in all out dehumanized industrial warfare.

I like how the Japanese strategy was based on disregarding the lives of their own people, assuming a suicidal resistance that caused unacceptable human casualties would force the US to negotiate, failed because it turned out the allied command had absolutely no regard for human life whatsoever. I like how they dropped the bombs just to show Stalin that they had them, and cause they were steamed they didn't make it in time to drop them on Berlin, it's almost as cool as the part where they seeded the entire Japanese coast with mines just so that they could dig into a nice blockade without worrying about fishermen going out and getting food.

Also that Unit 731 shit, super a warcrime when you're doing it on Chinese and Korean POWs, super not a problem when the CIA takes the research and continues it on French Canadian schizophrenics or gay black kids from the south.
Also how they literally replicated the comfort women system inside Japan for their occupying forces to cut down on the rape problem, wow suddenly soaplands everywhere.

wow america, すごい
>>
Shitting Fosslepedge - Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:51:45 EST /JUDCgXP No.57533 Reply
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>>57528

How about we teach that large military budgets are bad for all developed countries. Amongst the three largest powers its like keeping up with the Joneses. There will always be a need for a military however large massive budgets for campaigns across the globe seem ridiculous.
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Emma Wavingfoot - Sun, 07 Oct 2018 17:14:38 EST ILrQ3OWO No.57536 Reply
>>57530

>China fought the Japanese years before WWII even started
>America defeated Japan pretty much single handed
>>
Oliver Puvingfedge - Tue, 16 Oct 2018 20:51:33 EST I0gh1mqC No.57541 Reply
1539737493588.jpg -(670934B / 655.21KB, 598x511) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>57536
And doing a fantastic job of it.

For real though the island hopping air and naval campaign that actually beat them was entirely American and Australian, not to diminish the Chinese resistance or the British and Dutch holdout in their colonies but there's no red army pushing into Berlin to dispute American claims to saving everyone's ass.
>>
David Sirringshaw - Wed, 17 Oct 2018 08:31:25 EST OKHR+WXR No.57542 Reply
>>57528
Oh look, the Russian shills have paid /his/ a visit. Keep earning those rubles baby!
>>
William Cogglesene - Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:45:43 EST ynYwQZjI No.57543 Reply
>>57542
Oh look the conspiratorial ethnonationalists obsessing over scheming foreign "others" using media trickery to undermine the West are here.

How do you write "triple parentheses" in Cyrillic?
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Basil Duckstone - Thu, 18 Oct 2018 09:03:31 EST 0qSO+rVA No.57546 Reply
>>57541
>598x511 image with gif compression
>saved as jpg
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Cyril Husslehad - Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:07:53 EST e7MkhZ7q No.57549 Reply
>>57541

There was the red army steamrolling Japanese forces in Manchuria.
>>
Isabella Granddock - Thu, 25 Oct 2018 20:29:54 EST rbK+gS1r No.57550 Reply
>>57542
>>57543
You're both right and wrong. The USA was only a tiny part of a massive international machine designed to fucking murder nazis by the millions. And yes, Russia is basically like a retarded blind bear wildly swinging around itself to prevent democracy from taking root because holy shit when Russia gets an actual democratic government, Putin and his cronies will go to fucking jail for 1000 years.
>>
Thomas Clonderman - Thu, 08 Nov 2018 10:25:09 EST 2qVgMPk3 No.57555 Reply
The US certainly didn't win the war in Europe single handedly, but did contribute vital military resources without which the Allies could easily have lost. Britain was basically on the verge of surrender in 1941, and had the Americans not joined in with their strong industrial base too far away for the Germans to attack, the West would most likely have been lost, and then Hitler could focus his attention 100% on Russia. There's a chance Russia could have pushed Hitler back simply by being too large, cold, and fiercely resistant to hold, but without US aid that would have been much harder, and the Red Army's advance across Eastern Europe into Germany would be much slower
>>
Jessica Tandy needs candy !!vVWR8L52 - Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:16:50 EST d0TU1xe3 No.57556 Reply
>>57528
You're a dick for 1

And for 2 if operation unthinkable would have happened the U.S. would have out firepowered the USSR to a hilarious degree, B-29's over Moscow anyone?
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Edward Mubbletack - Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:39:44 EST rbK+gS1r No.57557 Reply
>>57556
>And for 2 if operation unthinkable would have happened the U.S. would have out firepowered the USSR to a hilarious degree, B-29's over Moscow anyone?

Great. You won WW3. Everyone you know has radiation sickness and your country is now effectively dead. The USSR is even more dead, but that doesn't matter. Because you're also dead. Less dead, but still. Dead.
>>
Beatrice Giddlepot - Fri, 16 Nov 2018 12:23:05 EST I0gh1mqC No.57558 Reply
>>57557
The Soviets didn't have nukes until the 50s, and neither side had missiles until even later so they would have been deployed by bombers or artillery, the USSR was physically incapable of a nuclear strike on North America before the 60's.

Not saying Operation Unthinkable was a good idea, it would have ended with an unstoppable Soviet invasion of Europe (yeah have a nice try nuking the entire red army from a plane) and "best case scenario" for the west a cold war stalemate across the Atlantic or English Channel instead of Eastern Europe. Just that MAD wasn't a thing for another decade after what we're talking about.
>>
Jessica Tandy needs candy !!vVWR8L52 - Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:12:27 EST A2Z9pIZI No.57560 Reply
>>57558
The Soviets were actually running low on manpower reserves in 1944, an all of Eastern Europe was a destroyed wreck that had over extended Soviet supply lines even by the time of the battle of Berlin. Even if nukes are pit of the picture America had control of the worlds high octane aviation fuel supply and a beastly Air Force. Not to mention that Soviet soldiers were eating literal tons of American canned meat etc...

Basically the point I'm trying to make in that the material advantage of the US combined with the logistical difficulties of the USSR trying to advance further into Europe with a hostile Air Force in total control of the skies would have been to much to overcome.

It would have been bloody for sure but America had many more men that it could have mobilized and or redeployed from other areas (such as the American garrisons in the French colonies) that the Soviets may have made some initial gains based on surprise but it would have ended up being like the German on the march to Stalingrad (case blue) basically a breakthrough followed by a supply nightmare.

Basically with WWII everything doesn't necessarily come down to brilliant tactics or production but rather the logistical ability to get what was need, where it was needed, when it was need.

I would love to discuss this further, this is really interesting stuff :)
>>
Beatrice Docklelet - Tue, 20 Nov 2018 05:19:06 EST 0c+1VKjn No.57561 Reply
1542709146897.jpg -(48785B / 47.64KB, 330x421) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
USA is the greatest and most powerful nation in the entire known history of the universe
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Phoebe Tillingfoot - Tue, 27 Nov 2018 19:50:35 EST IlyKIasb No.57570 Reply
>>57560
America has more men to mobilize but also an antiwar sect that hasn't witnessed Soviet abuses of power in the occupied soon-to-be-eastern bloc. Operation Unthinkable would be seen as an aggressive act toward a power that was basically just defending itself. Abuses like the Holodomor and the Stalinist purge of human rights weren't known to the West yet either. Democracies can only maintain their military if the will to fight is also maintained on the homefront, and an operation to purge communism after four long years of fighting may just be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Even as it stands in history, the debt to GDP ratio after WW2 was higher than it was at any other point in the nation's history, even today. The UK was even worse off and its colonies would likely refuse to send manpower against a Soviet war. A bloody stalemate would quickly force the West to the peace table and may even ensure all of Germany, not just the eastern half, falls under Stalinism.

Nukes are irrelevant at this stage in the game. One, two trinity-sized bombs produced every half a year isn't enough to turn the tide of a war. The major advantages the West would have are the Navy, as America/the UK would have sole dominance over the seas and would be able to mount offensives in the Black Sea and Baltic regions, and the airforce. These advantages are negated the further into Eastern Europe the West presses, and the West is far more leery of causalities than the Soviets are. Supply chain issues are also a problem for the West as much as they are for the Soviets. Much of the rail infrastructure in Eastern Europe is heavily damaged by years of vicious warfare. America has all the trucks in the world, but mud, rain, sleet, and snow would slow the Western advance and give the Soviets time to recoup/mount counteroffensives. It would not just take a victory, but a massive, all-sweeping victory with minimal causalities on a scale that outmatched even the early months of Barbarossa to liberate Eastern Europe. East Germany itself may be an easier pill to swallow, but again, at what cost? War weariness at the homefront must not be discounted.
>>
Sidney Picklock - Wed, 28 Nov 2018 00:07:43 EST Q+jVNWOo No.57572 Reply
>>57528
The USSR needed billions in arms from the USA to even function. Also why was it a good thing to destroy Germany, and hand the world over to the Rothschild banking cartel?
>>
Jessica Tandy needs candy !!vVWR8L52 - Wed, 28 Nov 2018 01:27:19 EST ASvy2P2k No.57573 Reply
>>57570
Could you please elaborate? I'm really not sure where you are going with this

From what I do get I would have to agree that the western allies launching a surprise attack on the USSR would have been a tough sell to the troops in Europe and at home.

The USSR launching a surprise attack on the westerner allies would also have been a hard sell because of the extreme war weariness at home and the propaganda that had been pumped out for years showing that the west was their allies.

So basically the likelyhood of either of these secnarios is dubious at best since, unlike in grand strategy games, to invade places you need people on board with your ideas. If not you get Italy in every war ever XD

But if for what ever reason both sides did fight I would still give the win to the US hands down. You make a good point about the logistics having to go over the broken and blasted landscape of Eastern Europe to get at the core of the USSR, and a good point about the logistics getting more difficult the farther the Allies would be from the coast, but I would counter that by simply saying the the allies (the US in particular) had in four years gone from operating in North America and parts of the pacific to operationing on a truely global scale, so the conundrum would be time as it always is in war, at the end of the day the Soviets would have had to cause enough casualties to break western civilian morale before the US could bring overwhelming force to bear.

This topic is very intellectually stimulating, loving the discussion! :)
>>
Matilda Tootford - Thu, 06 Dec 2018 03:41:21 EST IlyKIasb No.57576 Reply
>>57573
>but I would counter that by simply saying the the allies (the US in particular) had in four years gone from operating in North America and parts of the pacific to operationing on a truely global scale
And now they have to go from that, which was already a tremendous undertaking, to a deep interior plain where mud, sleet, snow, and hail become factors far more than France or Germany. The Pacific theater was islands. It could be resupplied easily by navy. The European Basin is not so easily resupplied. This is the exact same problem the Wehrmacht ran into during Barbarossa and Stalingrad. Air supply has its limits, even if you have air superiority. The Stalingrad airlift was an unabashed failure. Train lines can be sabotaged, and most were during the Eastern Front as it stood. This leaves trucks as your main supply vehicle of choice, and they have significant drawbacks in a war scenario. They are caught in mud. They break down. They can't carry as much per load, and they are subject to enemy sabotage. America has it better than Germany did due to the sheer quantity of their trucks, but pushing beyond East Germany is an eexponentially greater task that is hindered by the four years of war already fought across Eastern Europe. America's supply lines are also longer than Germany's supply lines are, by many factors of degree already as things stood at the end of WW2. America has mighty logistics, but even America's mighty logistics have a limit, and that limit was where they stopped in history.

The most likely scenario is a costly stalemate that leaves both sides of the Curtain far more bitter than they were in history, potentially leading to a hotter Cold War and even limited early nuclear exchanges.
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Sidney Drunnerson - Sun, 09 Dec 2018 01:28:53 EST 2DXgJHis No.57577 Reply
They were army grunts not scholars, are you really that surprised? Pearls before swine bro, just nod and drive your car.
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Ian Blemblesud - Fri, 05 Apr 2019 17:11:10 EST 1oNFPI90 No.57607 Reply
I think what sets the US apart from cccp and euro nations is that they didn't lose the war, soviet union lost millions of lives and was seiged, uk was bombed pretty hard as well.
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Hannah Brivingway - Sat, 11 May 2019 21:34:31 EST jqpDx4yB No.57638 Reply
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>>57528because the ussr wasnt the superior fighting force, they lost far more troops, and stupidly at that. the only reason they held the line is because of winter. youre actually the retarded one. Who won ww2? USA won the war in the pacific, USSR pushed into germany after a failed attack by germany who had a non aggression pact with them. IF hitler never attacked the USSR, they wouldnt have been involved, and the allies still would have won the war. why did the usa win ww2? Fatboy and littleman
who made the first nukes and used them again?
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Nell Feffingtedging - Mon, 20 May 2019 12:52:03 EST XsO0o/wD No.57641 Reply
>>57528
The USA didn't rape and murder millions of civilians, like the soviets did.
>>
Nell Feffingtedging - Mon, 20 May 2019 12:53:54 EST XsO0o/wD No.57642 Reply
>>57638
>muh russia never woulda been involved
You're absolutely retarded. They were moving troops to take oil fields in southeastern europe. Hitler was secretly recorded talking about this.
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Polly Cickleson - Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:54:34 EST 2CiYU25k No.57727 Reply
>>57686
what exactly did you detect? he laid it out there
do you have an actual disagreement
>>
Charlotte Finnerchad - Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:19:19 EST l9faZouv No.57728 Reply
>>57528
Ok but

> USA had the largest army in human history at end of WW2 (yes bigger than the Soviets)

> USA essentially ended centuries of Japanese oppression with harnessing technology decades ahead of its time.

> USA made a FUCK ton of money by staying on the sidelines and not being obsessed with glory.

> USA kept almost no territory, Marshal plan secured peace and ensured a much more fair Europe than soviet controlled.

> USA stopped soviets from taking over the rest of Europe

Hasn't been a World War since the Americans took charge, how about that?
>>
Samuel Hemmershaw - Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:16:39 EST HjyPkuuh No.57729 Reply
>>57728
>USA
>not being obsessed with glory
>USA
Holy shit imagine being this delusional
>>
Jarvis Brondledock - Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:58:49 EST WJ07taYS No.57730 Reply
>>57728
>Hasn't been a World War since the Americans took charge, how about that?

counterpoint: there's been a non-stop a low intensity world war for 70 years since the Americans took charge
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Charlotte Finnerchad - Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:19:48 EST l9faZouv No.57731 Reply
>>57729
Almost every decision is based on profits and not on glory. There was a brief stint in the cold war where they were more into impressing nations than they were into profit but this was crushed hard.
>>
Charlotte Finnerchad - Tue, 30 Jul 2019 17:20:21 EST l9faZouv No.57732 Reply
>>57730
Also, this is a very good point. Maybe we're stuck in such a state forever.
>>
Walter Hugglefuck - Mon, 05 Aug 2019 00:30:44 EST IlyKIasb No.57751 Reply
>>57730
By this logic the entire world has been in a low intensity state of world war that occasionally flares up since the 1700s. Great/regional powers competing does not a world war make.

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