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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated April 10)

/a/ - Anime & Manga Discussion Now Available
Korean & Japanese or Korean v. Japanese Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Nathaniel Brookspear - Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:11:26 EST ID:jJy382Y2 No.11787
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I'm trying to get my life together after many months of idle alcoholism. I've basically been on an extended gap year. And I am wondering if it is worth the time to take Korean and Japanese together for business and cultural purposes. Or just one language.

I already know enough French,German,and Spanish to travel or if need be enough to practice and become fluent enough to conduct business. So should I study both Japanese and Korean for the winter semester since I would be going to class everyday in a condensed amount of time. Or just one.

I live in Los Angeles and there is a huge Korean Community and a sizeable Japanese community.
>>
Basil Snodhood - Thu, 16 Oct 2014 19:30:29 EST ID:Z1v+SCTB No.11788 Ignore Report Reply
I'll give every bit of advice I can, but my experience with Korean is mostly academic and impersonal.



They have very... tense relations. Not that that should matter.

Both languages are drastically unlike French, Spanish, or German, though the phonologies and grammars are a little like the mixed.

They're at similar difficulty levels, though Korean is just a little harder. They have very similar grammars, similar phonotactics, and similar pitch/stress/timing patterns, but they have different phonologies; Japanese is like a simpler Spanish, but Korean has a lot more, including altaic vowels (an ö and ü broken into we and üi, an unrounded u, which to be fair is the default allophone of /u/ in Japanese). Japanese has a very rigid 5 vowel system, but Korean has a 7 vowel system where the near open vowels have slid to more close positions. Korean has 3 rows of stop consonants - ptk and bdg like us, but also a set of tense consonants in the places of ptk too where you tighten your throat. (graphically, <pp><tt><kk> and the non-stop <ss>; eg dal means moon, tal means mask, and ttal means daughter). Korean even has traces of vowel harmony, but that's simple enough.

Writing systems add a whole bunch of difficulty points back to Japan, evening things out. Korean uses an alphabet like ours, except the syllables are scrunched up into blocks. Chinese characters are used only very rarely now in SK, usually in scientific things to distinguish homographs (like boohoo tear and shred tear). There's usually 1:1 correspondence spelling wise; their alphabet, and thus their writing system, was historically put down but today championed as a writing system you could learn in a day.

Japan on the other hand uses a syllabary, where each "letter" represents one whole unique syllable (it's simpler phonology, though, means this isn't quite as crazy as it would be for English or even Korean). Except it doesn't just use one syllabary, it uses 2. And to top that off, it uses Chinese characters unsparingly, so you have to know those. There's some patterns you can gleam from the Chinese-derived pronunciations of the characters (oh yeah, there's usually two, often more pronunciations of the characters), but because Japan evolved independently, most of the characters have no patterns whatsoever to their pronunciations. You really have to suck it up and memorize.

Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>
Martin Nattingstone - Sun, 19 Oct 2014 01:16:57 EST ID:RTil2obd No.11792 Ignore Report Reply
Just a hobby/academically go for it, they are difficult and will consume a lot of time. I did a year of Japanese in college and have since forgotten most of it, the 3 alphabets thing didn't really bother fsr it just kinda clicked with me, because only certian types of words are spelled with a certain alphabet.

Both culture are extraordinarily xenophobic and your chances of living/working there are basically zero, but being so isolated they produce a ton of their own media, no I'm not just talking about anime, so you'll have lots of ways to absorb the language/culture.


Uploding Latin course. Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Thomas Trotville - Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:32:53 EST ID:fGC+CkpF No.11610
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Hello, /lang/. Are any of you interested in learning Latin? I've been recently cleaning out my house and stumbled upon some of my old Latin textbooks. If any of you want, I can put all the information into a pastebin to share with you all.
6 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
>>
Edwin Fisslelin - Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:38:46 EST ID:zDy+3X47 No.11747 Ignore Report Reply
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Your thread makes Caesar die.
>>
Jenny Desslehood - Thu, 16 Oct 2014 10:02:11 EST ID:ix0FBFjU No.11786 Ignore Report Reply
Interested here, but WHERE IS OP
>>
Charlotte Femmlegold - Mon, 20 Oct 2014 02:44:55 EST ID:Z1v+SCTB No.11797 Ignore Report Reply
OP est canaedus


Corpus Linguistics Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Nigger Ginkinway - Tue, 14 Oct 2014 10:59:12 EST ID:YpxqR+QJ No.11781
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Have you heard of it?

Tried it?

I'm very curious.. It's a systematic breakdown of single paragraphs/phrases in order to learn the context of vocabulary and sentence structure of that language? It seems that anybody with a true willingness to learn a language will inevitably end up doing this. It's why one would want to watch a foreign film in the language they're learning, attempt to read newspaper articles, write poems, songs, etc.
>>
Clara Candergold - Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:36:07 EST ID:OCB4hcwz No.11783 Ignore Report Reply
just reading about what it is scared the shit out me. this looks hard as nuts, and its something i wouldnt touch with a 20inch pole.
>>
Graham Soshtere - Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:25:28 EST ID:dgpaNSaa No.11784 Ignore Report Reply
OP, you do understand that linguistics is not the learning of languages, right? When people talk about corpus linguistics, they're talking about analyzing corpora with an emphasis on the analyzing. If you're doing things like POS tagging, it is a truly awful way to study a language that's already well documented.
>>
Henry Hallerhedge - Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:21:10 EST ID:vOuS2D9s No.11811 Ignore Report Reply
>>11781

my understanding is you understand what it is for, one of us is really wrong

imagine you already have a really high level of English, difficult, I know

Now you are writing an essay and you want to say they "had" an election.. but then you think.. wait a minute! there's a better way to say this! but the word won't come to you, you have been writing all day. you look it up and you see.. ah, you "hold" an election. Walla!

It's useful for a million things along these lines. When you're a beginner and you are doing exercises in a grammar book, the fill in the gaps exercises most likely all came from a corpus like that.


Sitting down and reading it would be along the lines of sitting down and reading the Internet.


German translations for me? Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Phineas Winkinwodge - Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:41:10 EST ID:8cqzfMaE No.11664
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Would someone proficient in German be so kind as to translate the song names from Crystal Castles II?

>Fainting Spells
>Celestica (do it the best you can)
>Doe Deer
>Baptism
>Year of Silence
>Empathy
>Suffocation
>Violent Dreams
>Vietnam
>Birds
>Pap Smear
>Not in Love
>Intimate
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1 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
>>
Augustus Niggerville - Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:46:44 EST ID:8cqzfMaE No.11669 Ignore Report Reply
>>11668
Thanks.
>>
Jack Gonkindock - Wed, 03 Sep 2014 15:26:19 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11670 Ignore Report Reply
>>11669
Ohmachts Episode for the first I think I was drunk when I typed this
>>
Priscilla Biblingson - Tue, 07 Oct 2014 20:36:46 EST ID:144YlSuj No.11772 Ignore Report Reply
>>11668
Suffocation = Erstickung
*gewalttätige Träume
*Ich bin aus Kreide gemacht


ITT explain why english is the best language Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Oliver Blatherdock - Sun, 07 Sep 2014 14:54:36 EST ID:Zc5d8Gm+ No.11675
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in your own opinion, plz don't stay a shit war about Spanish and mandarin again for the billionth time
18 posts and 4 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
>>
Nigel Trotshaw - Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:48:57 EST ID:OCB4hcwz No.11766 Ignore Report Reply
>>11765
spot on.
>>
Emma Dorrywill - Mon, 06 Oct 2014 18:58:15 EST ID:WjmbZth5 No.11768 Ignore Report Reply
>>11766
pray for the rise of China?
>>
Nicholas Fadgespear - Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:19:53 EST ID:j8qnAVzG No.11814 Ignore Report Reply
top kek, almost every other language around the globe allows the speaker to be more specific & to find the correct _shade_ of expression they should use according to the situation, offering 9001 times larger vocab. English is just too simple. It's not even in the 3rd leauge of epic languages.


learning Spanish Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Jarvis Divingchig - Tue, 24 Jun 2014 09:07:51 EST ID:PZ6JLEYk No.11489
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HEY I would really like to learn Spanish. Can you guys provide some links or hints that have proven to work?
32 posts and 3 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
>>
Shit Hiffinghall - Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:25:39 EST ID:tEdc4xb4 No.11691 Ignore Report Reply
>>11489
Learn English or Chinese shithead
>>
Isabella Dicklepat - Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:07:50 EST ID:dG4CW9sx No.11703 Ignore Report Reply
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>>11645
>>11654

no mamen, ustedes no hablan con acentos?
seguro se meten en muchos malentendidos.
>>
Simon Fuppermed - Tue, 16 Sep 2014 00:19:51 EST ID:sPwTzU+z No.11715 Ignore Report Reply
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>>11703
>no mamen


What's even the point. Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Phyllis Dottingmadge - Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:55:53 EST ID:3PaB0X0O No.11569
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No one wants to talk to you in their native language, they want to practice English with you. Or they'll get mad as if you were implying they don't know English. It's a required subject in every developed nation, everyone speaks English. Foreign media is available translated. I really enjoyed Spanish and French in school/college but now I'm disappointed I never get to use them and can't see the point of trying to pick up another. Why do you guys do it?
10 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
>>
Beatrice Hollerhuck - Tue, 09 Sep 2014 15:35:34 EST ID:AWCZ+ZVx No.11686 Ignore Report Reply
counterpoint:
http://www.memrise.com/blog/10-monolingual-countries-where-you-need-to-know-th/
http://www.memrise.com/blog/10-monolingual-countries-where-you-need-to-know-2/
>>
Nicholas Famblebanks - Sat, 13 Sep 2014 08:54:13 EST ID:yemH8wU3 No.11701 Ignore Report Reply
In China I've become friends with a lot of 40+ year old men and women. People who own the convenience stores near me, my apt complex security guards, the ladies who monitor the keys in the teacher's lounges at my school, etc. These people never learned English and by this point in their lives they're pretty much settled in and are never going to. So what if they're almost old enough to be my parents, they're constantly bored at work with plenty of free time to chat and don't know any English beyond "hello."
>>
Doris Crackleshaw - Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:50:09 EST ID:xlt8pxCz No.11710 Ignore Report Reply
>>11569

>I really enjoyed Spanish and French in school/college but now I'm disappointed I never get to use them and can't see the point of trying to pick up another.

What? You must be shrooming.

I spent a week in Paris and didn't hear a word of English until I got back to the airport. Not my taxi driver, not my hotelier, not the woman at the drugstore, not my waiters, not the guys who sold the tickets at the Louvre. None of them spoke any English to me. They were either unable or unwilling. And as much as I'd like to flatter myself by thinking that it was because my French was so good, it most certainly wasn't. I held very basic conversations and took care of necessities, but it was obvious that my French was shit. And I'm fat, so they probably figured I was American. Or British. Either way, an English speaker. But I heard no English from them.


Need help boosting my German Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Nathaniel Wullybodge - Tue, 02 Sep 2014 00:51:44 EST ID:si6pwvxP No.11661
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I am a German student 3 courses away from my degree in German, but I still really struggle in reading. I passed B1 in April... I'm in a very difficult German reading course right now where we are tackling a Novella a week. Half the students are grad students and most of the other undergrad German students are out classing me.

I really love German but I am starting to get down on myself and my motivation is suffering. I'm also a geology student and doing calculus II this semester, so I'm pretty heavily loaded up on schoolwork.

What's a good way to amass vocab and confidence at this point in my studies?
1 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
>>
Whitey Pittingwater - Fri, 12 Sep 2014 20:43:44 EST ID:BArGmrn0 No.11699 Ignore Report Reply
Unterhalte dich mit Muttersprachlern.
>>
Nicholas Famblebanks - Sat, 13 Sep 2014 08:07:36 EST ID:yemH8wU3 No.11700 Ignore Report Reply
Remember: language learning is not a race. It's easy to think of it as being one, especially when you're taking courses and being outdone by your peers (I've been there before, I know.)

The easiest way to regain confidence is to go back and read something you haven't read in your target language in over a year. As long as you're practicing, even just a little, you'll be able to note a higher level of fluency over your past self. Don't worry about being better than your classmates, just focus on being better than you.
>>
Charlotte Siffinglot - Fri, 10 Oct 2014 05:52:53 EST ID:KHT6bnsu No.11774 Ignore Report Reply
memrise is good too

everything you can, as many different resources as you can, that way you see the same words in different situations instead of revising over and over

when reading novellas don't write the translations of words over them but instead on a post it and stick it to the page

then try to read the page and refer to the post it when you need it, giving yourself time to try to remember the word first


Voynich Script Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Simon Wivingline - Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:11:50 EST ID:8+cBdc9r No.11649
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript
What's it mean?
>>
Walter Gibberpet - Mon, 01 Sep 2014 04:27:44 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11653 Ignore Report Reply
Probably a c. 1450 act of personal art that just got traded into noble hands, forgotten about, and passed on. The techniques used to make it and the tech drawn in it put it at a date range of 1450-1480 at the most likely and the location of somewhere in central to east central Europe, where it came from.

It's information patterns as a mix of pseudolinguistic gibberish (like glossolia, speaking in tongues) and of something patterning like a mildly analytic language, suiting the "chinese" explanation but parsimoniously being explained by the Germanic and even a reduced Latin (somewhat like a correctedRomanian or Spanish or French) underlying the cipher. The noise though is probably so great that it's what's throwing off decypherment. Additionally, some of the nonlinguistic patterns detected might explain the lack of corrections - the mistakes were simply addended with corrections; like say "The lino lion ate the mause mouse", outside of glossolalia patterns of simple noise.



Regarding it's purpose, probably just someone's private world committed to paper. A would-be mystic monk in a time where mysticism was flourishing but off paper, possibly compounded by drugs and disease (migraines explain many of the stranger sites). Another explanation that I find parsimonious, a sufferer of an autism-like disorder - likely to be made a priest in the era, likely to have an inner world like that persist into adulthood, likely to put in the excruciating detail to commit it to paper, and have the overactive pattern-seeking behavior to put it through a cypher.


Of course it's just my opinion. This site is a little bit more conservative in that it dismisses most "explanations" without committing to one of it's own but it brings up quite a lot of the known details for people in good detail:

http://www.ciphermysteries.com/


Language-learning method I created Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Martin Niggerspear - Sun, 24 Aug 2014 00:39:20 EST ID:rbS8hkzn No.11625
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Rate the method I have come up with to learn Icelandic. I'd like to hear your guyses feedback concerning it. I'm still at the first stage and sticking to it.

First stage: Acquiring reading fluency

The first stage consists of reading general texts (like news) in order to get to know the basic vocabulary used by these kind of texts. News texts generally follow a template and always use the same words. The method to acquire the reading fluency requires that the learner checks every word in a text in order to get accostumed with patterns, like conjugation and declension patterns. It is slow and tiresome in the beginning, but as day passes, the learner will be able to recognize more and more words, find out the infinitive form of a conjugated verb and the nominative form of a declined adjective, adverb, noun, article or pronoun. In this stage the learner is to be assisted by pages that are capable of indentifying conjugated verbs' and declined words' root form in order to help in the pattern-finding part. A website capable of finding the root form of declined words or conjugated verbs is http://bin.arnastofnun.is/forsida/. Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org) is also able to conjugate and decline words, but it isn't as reliable.

Second stage: Acquiring writing fluency

By the time the learner reaches this stage, he's to have the standard vocabulary used by news websites. He's to know the most used verbs, nouns and adjectives as well as their conjugation and declension patterns. In this stage the learner will use the vocabulary he acquired to write blog-like entries in the website Lang-8 (http://www.lang-8.com). This is the stage that will focus the heaviest on grammar. The learner must submit his texts to Lang-8, compare their texts with the corrections submitted by native icelanders and study the mistakes in order to get rid of the majority of them. Sites like WordReferenceForums (http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=75) can be used to answer specific answer regarding grammar and Wikipedia's article on Icelandic grammar covers the technical intricacies. The learner when writing an entry must translate the words he wants to use in his entries using a translato…
Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.


Not a polygot Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Polly Murdwill - Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:57:36 EST ID:PUY3prz5 No.11590
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I'm 26 years old and I only speak English. There is no doubt in my mind that I am progressing in Spanish very quickly.

Would it be implausible for me to seek a degree in Linguistics?
1 posts omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Edward Honeyfield - Wed, 06 Aug 2014 05:49:45 EST ID:w4o0Iqm5 No.11597 Ignore Report Reply
>>11590
There are plenty of linguists who only speak one languge. If you want to learn languages get a degree in languages instead .
>>
Oliver Hebbershaw - Fri, 08 Aug 2014 16:10:56 EST ID:qizTVHik No.11603 Ignore Report Reply
How's that Spanish coming along? It was coming super quickly for me at first until I got owned and realized there's so much I didn't know. Still progressing though.
>>
Jack Sunningstone - Wed, 20 Aug 2014 22:40:49 EST ID:zQYXj+n2 No.11616 Ignore Report Reply
That is an impressive reference, dude.


japanese question Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Doris Snodgold - Sat, 12 Apr 2014 19:55:14 EST ID:aNRx9wD5 No.11234
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how does one write/say "snake river" in japanese?

hebi = snake

kawa = river

hebi kawa = snake river?
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moxie !QvI1p9.OFY - Tue, 15 Apr 2014 04:15:44 EST ID:avmU74pl No.11238 Ignore Report Reply
>>11237
and of course there's a fucking typo lolol
>>
NinKenDo !GEcKEyOqGA - Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:13:56 EST ID:VKUrAz63 No.11280 Ignore Report Reply
蛇川 (へびがわ) is probably good. But I think that might mean "snake leather" given that 蛇革 was the suggested kanji from Google IME. Fucktons of homophones in Japanese anyway though, so it wouldn't much matter if the context made it clear, also in written form you'd have the kanji to make it totally clear, so if it's in written form it's definitely fine.
>>
Eugene Billingwill - Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:36:29 EST ID:yb9jDlV5 No.11615 Ignore Report Reply
>>11238
participle


surrendermonkeyese Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Jenny Sullerworth - Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:29:54 EST ID:JWfHUhIZ No.11244
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quick question about french

the "past historic" tense of a verb is considered for literary use only. but from what I understand, the tense is the same as the english "I ate, I slept, I walked"

why is that considered literary use only? it seems very basic to have a past tense like that.
>>
Charles Dartstone - Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:53:27 EST ID:/sKGtROt No.11246 Ignore Report Reply
>>11244
The passé simple does not translate as easily as you think it does. In english, the "I ate" past and the "I have eaten" past are still largely interchangeable and both occur frequently in speech (I forgot the name of those tenses). In french, the "je mangeai" past (passé simple) has simply disappeared from everyday use. You only ever hear the passé composé.

I could turn your question around. Quick question about english - the second person singular pronoun 'thou' is only every used in specialized literature. But from what I understand, it's the same as in the french 'tu' in contrast to 'vous'. Why has thou disappeared? It seems very basic to make a distinction between the singular and plural second person pronouns.

The passé composé appears frequently in written media because most forms of french literature are very conservative in their language. Take a intellectually mid-range magazine like National Geographic. In english the language used in NG would be pretty close to regular spoken english. In french the difference would be a lot more noticeable - writing in media tends to be a lot more convoluted, sophisticated and flowery in grammar and lexicon than everyday speech. It's quite an interesting phenomenon really. The end result is that written french has many elements that don't occur in spoken french, the passé simple being one of them.

When I speak french with frenchmen I sometimes like to throw in a passé simple form to see their reactions. They usually comment on it.
>>
Jenny Sarringspear - Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:35:36 EST ID:NqJL1ymG No.11247 Ignore Report Reply
Mind you, languages other than English tend to have a lot more dialectical variation; enough that there's (or was until about 50 years ago) actually a gradient of "know this language, you can understand this language" between French, Portuguese, and Italian. This means that there's a great deal of interest in locking the rules down in stone so things aren't too different to figure out for everyone. French becoming the region's lingua franca (cough) doesn't help the whole "keep it constant so everyone can understand it" thing. Whence the spelling.

Another thing about translation is sometimes it isn't possible. The past historic doesn't actually translate into English; it just formed analogously to our simple past and makes for a better feeling translation than free translation, which is more difficult for teachers to measure because not all of the elements are being drawn the same. And since they're both past tense anyways (little information other than feeling is destroyed or pulled out of nowhere), that's the way it goes.

As a note of trivia, the same thing kinda happened in German; the more irregular past tense (where you have the remember that o becomes a in come/came (komme/kam)) is harder to memorize and less systematic with sound changes in weird dialects. The result is you only pretty much use it when you're telling an impersonal story, but a lot of media will just use the regular past (the hab ge+verb+en) anyways. It's actually probably an areal feature, like German and Dutch picking up the Parisian R.
>>
Shit Worthingdale - Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:53:51 EST ID:uKLKdjDs No.11604 Ignore Report Reply
>>11246
This post is very good.

As a native speaker, I'd say you have to consider first the fact that when you are using this tense you are talking/writing about something which is supposed to be 'cut' from the present time. And by that I mean not something you can count, as if there was a time limit, when you use this tense what you are talking about is almost from another dimension, you can't relate to It in any imaginable way.

You can see from the perspective "It is mostly use in those kind of text therefore...". But you should try to get closer to the meaning of this tense. I actually it's not one of the most difficult thing in french language


Learning Finnish Ignore Report View Thread Reply
Molly Fuckingham - Wed, 15 Jan 2014 22:28:04 EST ID:uWRxXpm/ No.10987
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I want to learn Finnish. I've never learned a second language. I speak English. Does anyone know of a good free resource for becoming fluent in Finnish. I'm thinking a website, a book or a set of books. Piracy is ok. I also welcome advice.
68 posts and 21 images omitted. Click View Thread to read.
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Basil Smallgold - Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:46:16 EST ID:Q5R8DPz7 No.11574 Ignore Report Reply
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>>11566
Fuck you, I for one welcome any migrants who come through 420chan.
>>
Esther Dirringspear - Fri, 01 Aug 2014 10:23:02 EST ID:i0gwflFu No.11578 Ignore Report Reply
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>>11568
>>11574
>>
Hugh Blytheham - Tue, 05 Aug 2014 02:11:59 EST ID:zI1SXTVd No.11595 Ignore Report Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE


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